Micro 956 | 2of4 | Dinosaur Comics™ - GAME OVER!

[CreativeMod1]

Okay, I'll have to do this based on your game and your plays

Can you talk me through the end of Day 1? everything that we were questioning you about (before Ali kept stopping us)

Also this post is automatically the worst post of the game because it's post number 2020

[CreativeMod1]

Btw I haven't reread through that section recently so I can't remember what you have/haven't answered and I will do later, I just remember Ali getting in the way of questioning

[CreativeMod1]

Old games do nothing for me, for many reasons that I listed before to Ali I don't bother looking into old games

I have a little bit of time so I'm gonna have a look through now

[CreativeMod1]

Something I noticed when looking through, your first vote in RVS was on Ali

okay so here's the plan: we're gonna kill the animes
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Alisae
we do this first, then we get hiraki, and then last we get nexus because i think he was nice to me, but rules are rules, the anime gotta go and then we win the game

Ali mentioned earlier in their 'case study' against me that my first vote was Pisskop and thus is a reason why we're teamed, this could apply here

Okay so here's bits of what we had issues with on the Day 1 vote:

When you jumped off of the vote there was very little time left in the day, all you did was unvote and didn't really say anything more. There was no defence, nothing saying "Hey I think Clarkbar is town, I don't have time to say why now but please don't hammer". Just simply an unvote.

Given how little time was left, the vote would've 100% been Clark without some form of counter. As I was told earlier on in Day 1 when I was trying to stop the Umlaut wagon, if you want to stop a wagon then you need to provide a counter, the fact that you didn't and nor did you slow down said wagon indicates that you were okay with said wagon. It felt more like you were trying to distance yourself from the wagon knowing that we would be looking at the voters of that wagon when it flipped town.
What makes it worse is that you jumped on a minute after the hammer was down to declare that you disagreed with the vote, meaning that either it's a hell of a coincidence or you were watching and if you were watching then you could've chimed in when Nexus voted.

Reading through Porkens makes a good point too, even if the cancel didn't go through, jumping off it without a counter could end the day in a no-cancel which is also good for scum

The next issue is:

petapan

(4) - CreativeMod1, Hiraki, Porkens, Umlaut

Umlaut

(2) - Nexus, pisskop

Porkens

(2) - petapan, Alisae

If you're town, then who is scum on your wagon? Like Umlauts wagon and all of the cancels, I highly doubt we've got an all-town wagon on a townie. Pisskop could've very easily jumped on at some point.

Btw, quick unofficial vote count:
Peta (3): Me, Hiraki, Porkens
Porkens (2): Peta, Ali
Umlaut (1): Nexus
Hiraki (1): Pisskop
Not Voting (1): Umlaut
So Peta is at C-2

VOTE: umlaut

Fixed tag - mod

Right here is the perfect point where Pisskop could've jumped on the wagon and nobody would've said anything about it, an Ali/Pisskop team would've been in a perfect position because Ali could've gone for the "Oh look I was right, Peta was town" and Pisskop could've stayed hidden within all the other players who pushed for a Peta cancel

Looking through Day 2 I notice you use a lot of AtE language, saying how bad you feel for the cancel on Clark and how you wish you'd done more to stop it and if only you had more time

Day 3 you spend a lot of time telling us to cancel you and it's super LAMIST and again its AtE (see guys I'm learning my acronyms ) Like nobody is gonna cancel the guy who keeps telling them to cancel them in order to prove a point, I don't see why asking to be canceled as a townie is helpful to the town, therefore it could be a scum play to look town knowing that nobody is gonna follow through with it and if someone does then you can maybe make a push somewhere instead.



Okay I think I'm done for now, but yeah this is a case about you personally, ignoring everything in relation to Ali because any interaction with Ali could be Ali trying to discredit a town.

[CreativeMod1]

CM1's Unoffical Votecount 2

Ali: CM1, Peta
Porkens: Ali, Hiraki

Notes-Making it look fancy for da lolz

[CreativeMod1]

I am reading what you're saying but it's not just me who had those same views about you when it happened. A major reason why I'm bringing it back up is because I feel like that investigation against you went unresolved and I'm trying to resolve it...admittedly it's not your fault it went unresolved, it's Ali jumping in and trying to stop our questioning and then their claim

Okay so what about your Day 2 and Day 3 stuff that I brought up.

What's up with all the AtE stuff you did on Day 2 and why on earth did you try to get us to cancel you on Day 3.
Especially given that your point of wanting to be canceled on Day 3 was to say that if you flip town then we must use it as a message to trust Ali, something which you're now going back on today, you now don't trust Ali

Lets imagine that you are town and we decided to go along with your plan, we would've auto-lost because a) we would've lost a townie and lost our last mis-cancel and b) we would've done it on the basis that we must now trust Ali who is now obv scum and thus Ali would now be leading to town into a town cancel and we'd lose

Please explain how asking to be canceled is in any way town motivated

pre-edit: The reason why your actions are being scrutinised is because you asked for it, you said to treat things as if Pisskop is a bot who can't answer and thus base my decision on you.

I looked through the quotes you gave for PK and there wasn't a lot in there that screamed scum to me and you saying now about PK changing his views is so little, like come on, you've changed your views many times

[CreativeMod1]

Also just saying that whilst yes I do have a scum read on you and yes I'm interrogating you

I haven't made up my mind yet about you and I will want to hear Hiraki and Porkens views on the matter

[CreativeMod1]

Oh and I get that you hadn't responded to my first post when I made my second post saying but what about Day 2 and 3, I just wanted to make these points extra clear

[CreativeMod1]

none of the talk about clarkbar was meant to be persuasive, i felt legitimately bad about my tunnel on him and not saying enough to stop the vote. i guess as a town player i should never apologize for when i make a mistake? (but of course, you've never been wrong, i take it). the behavior is null at worst.

It's less about you apologizing and more about the fact that you kept going on about it and really trying to make us feel sorry for you

literally the exact posts before i unvoted, he towntold hard and i feel like shit for misreading him and i feel like double shit because I GUESS i did not communicate well enough that i changed my mind by just posting an unvote and that is on me

you are right that i failed to communicate my feelings effectively, that was a mistake. i feel fucking terrible about it! that said i'm not sure why you believe this was an attempt to garner towncred after driving the wagon hard myself. what is unvoting without saying anything supposed to earn me? you are wrong but it's okay.

it happened, i don't know what to tell you. i saw the posts saying it was staged (which was ???), tabbed, was looking at other things, came back and refreshed and it was hammered. that's the truth of it. i wish i had communicated more clearly but i was still mulling it over in my head. i guess i should have been more attentive too but can't really change that now, that's just a lesson for future games.

Here's 3 examples of what I mean

Also rereading that quote, if you saw the posts saying that it was staged, why not question it at the time? why not respond then and say why you unvoted?


Also in response to your other statement, when I play IRL my reads are generally pretty bang on, to the point that I'm usually first killed in the night if there isn't a better target for the bad guys (such as someone who has softed a PR) I play by logic and watching peoples actions.


You've got to at least admit that the points I'm making about your game are valid, like okay yes I'm new to MS playstyles and everything but in my eyes a lot of what you've done just doesn't add up for town, maybe I'm wrong but I'm just struggling to see it and I'm sorry if I am wrong, like truly sorry to ruin the game, if I've fucked over the town then yeah I'll take this as a learning step that things are much more different here then elsewhere but everything tells me that this is the right vote, it's you and Ali as a team.

Also I feel validated because especially everything that happened Day 1, everyone else (who are pretty much confirmed town) were agreeing with me in what I was saying, Porkens and Hiraki were both saying the same things and making the same arguments and whilst I may be new they are not and they would know better than me.

[CreativeMod1]

I'm happy to take things slow and think about things and I value your opinion here.

Whilst I've made my opinions quite clear and yes I interrogated Peta to share these opinions, there's no I in team, I'm happy to listen to everyone else and what they feel

Porkens in a Hiraki/PK team, who shoots Nexus and why?

[CreativeMod1]

Anyways, I'm off to bed now.

Peta if you really are town then I'm sorry I've been so hard on you, I will listen to the others in this matter, heck I stepped off from Ali day 1 to listen to everyone else, I stepped off of you Day 2 to make sure that everyone views could be heard

I'm not a monster who won't listen to the rest of the team. I have my views and opinions and yes I'll probably argue them but I'll also let others argue their points

Also finally, yes you're a bigger scum read for me than PK and have been the whole day, the only reason why I said that I was 50/50 about it is because I wanted you to engage me in conversation, I wanted to either be proved wrong in what you're saying or to find more to nitpick and catch you out on

[CreativeMod1]

You've got to at least admit that the points I'm making about your game are valid

no, none of what you have said is remotely valid, you arguments are some of the worst i have ever seen.

Ouch, despite the fact that Hiraki and Porkens were making the same points on Day 2, oh but because the noob made them too then they're the worst arguments you've ever seen, ah okay, thanks

[CreativeMod1]

this is off putting

What do you mean?

Lol I can't sleep xD

[CreativeMod1]

no, none of what you have said is remotely valid, you arguments are some of the worst i have ever seen.

i wonder what the ethical thing to do here is when you've sapped my will to fight

don't bother apologizing to me. i'm done. no interest in speaking to you.

my only issue is that i feel like the end of day yesterday strongly anti-aligns cm1 with pisskop and porkens so i don't know what to do there, at all, but i'm sort of about to throw in the towel because i'm sick of him

alisae i don't care if you're scum anymore. cm1 has tilted me

yes, i literally gave up because i got sick of arguing with creativemod1 and attempted to throw the game against him

i'm still upset you hammered umlaut and not that prick though

Ya'know what, fuck this game wtf is your problem, IT IS A FUCKING GAME!!! STOP GETTING SO FUCKING PERSONAL!!! You and ali deserve each other!
Honestly, I feel real fucking welcome into this community so thank you so fucking much.

From what I gathered this game is about scum hunting, it's about finding things you think are suspicious and pointing them out and nitpicking about them so that's what I did, I found you and Ali suspicious with lots of things that pinged me saying that what you did was odd and yeah I nitpicked about it and I made a case about why I feel like you're scum.

Personally I feel like the points I've made are valid points, the things I've pointed out are things that make you scum. Yes we spoke about them on Day 2 but we didn't get a conclusion from that because of Ali's JK claim, we are now in the endgame, we are now at the point where we need to get scum so yes I brought it back up as part of my case for why I think you're scum.

I think Ali makes the most sense, like I'm 100% sure Ali is scum

I know that it must be Porkens or Ali and between them all of Porkens actions have made sense and everything Ali has done makes 0 sense

Peta I'm slowly warming up to you but if you try to sway things away from Ali more then it's making it harder to not see you guys as a pair

In reply to the talk about this, lol I wasn't warming up to you, I just wanted to see if you'd bus your partner or if you'd try to keep it on the PK v Peta vote. I didn't want to say that at the time because if you felt like I was townreading you then maybe you would bus your partner easier (and yes I know that you've said that you think Ali is scum but wanting to vote off PK IS saving Ali, whether you see it that way or not)

Look, I'm sold on where I think scum is and nothing you or Ali say is gonna make me change my mind on that because if you're scum then yeah you'd be trying to save yourself. However Porkens and Hiraki can probably make me think twice and I'm welcome to opinions from them


Reading over things, Porkens makes a very good point that there were 2 people on his wagon for quite sometime, if Porkens was town and the 2 people on his wagon were town then that would mean that scum could've hammered there which leads back again to it being either Porkens or Ali (again looking at the Clark vote then we can see that unless it was an all-town vote 1 of those 2 are scum...or me but I know I'm not scum)

Also now that we have a PK replacement (thanks Not_Mafia) I think our best thing to do is to go for the Porkens v Ali cancel, focus on that and watch what NM does and learn from it, see if NM does anything scummy

[CreativeMod1]

CM1's unoffical votecount 3

There's been a few changes of votes and at this stage in the game I think it's extremely important that we keep up with the vote count otherwise we could have an quick hammer

Porkens (1) - Hiraki
Alisae (1) - CreativeMod1

[CreativeMod1]

The other thing btw Peta is that whilst you may feel like I haven't considered other options, I have, I've thought a lot about other potential partnerships and I don't see it as strongly as I see you and Ali (I see you and Ali as both being scum both independently and as a pair)

Porkens: There was a lot of softs for his claim during Day 2 and his reaction to Ali's claim checks out
Hiraki: I don't see why Hiraki would kill Nexus or why anyone would kill Nexus also who would Hiraki's partner be? It'd be impossible to be Ali due to Night 1 claims, I can't see it being Porkens because there'd be a lot of unnecessary bussing right now when they could easily just win the game by voting Ali here, PK/NM and you, it'd mean that vote 1 was an all-town vote
PK/NM: This one is harder due to how little PK said and I hope that NM can help here but going back to yesterday, a lot of arguments in town and then suddenly a flip onto PK based on them just not being around, going for an easy cancel is only helpful to maf imo, especially if our last miscancel gives us 0 information, partner can't be you or Hiraki cos of the Clark vote so that leaves Porkens or Ali

Like the solve is either Ali/Peta or Ali/NM

Oh btw Hiraki I have a question for you in terms of Ali, what do you make of Ali's Day 3 claim of why they locked up Porkens? The claim was that they did it to protect someone who they think is town. At that point in the game Ali had no way of knowing that a doc was in the game and as such surely they would need to be using their powers to try to protect themselves, like Mafia keeping the JK alive is so risky because it is so powerful, why wouldn't mafia shoot there and why wouldn't Ali protect themselves by targeting someone they believed to be scummy

[CreativeMod1]

Yes I am considering the possibility of Ali/NM and it is in the back of my mind but the case against you is just so much stronger that I can't ignore it

[CreativeMod1]

So hang on...you believe that Ali is scum, you've been pushing for Ali/NM being a team........but now you're saying that you don't think they're a team???

How are my arguments scummy? Porkens thinks it's you and Ali, is that why you were voting Porkens earlier?

Oh I see, this is just simply a massive OMGUS, realise that you can't fool me and thus I must be scum (despite the fact that you yourself said that I'm confirmed town based on mechanics)

[CreativeMod1]

Actually in all seriousness that is a good point

You were 100% massively on the Ali is scum train to the point of saying that the game is won or lost based on who we cancel as Alis partner

But yet now you're on the Porkens wagon?

This is going to take a while.

P edit: Creative, can you point out where peta is trying to sway away from alisae?

i have been adamant that i scumread alisae and am extremely unlikely to change my mind. it's also true than an ali-scum word means one of me or pisskop is scum. i want that to be the debate, and he keeps trying to handcuff me to alisae for even raising the subject. i would be absolutely flipping the fuck out on him all over again if i weren't near certain he mechanically has to be town

Okay so here you're absolutely adamant that Ali is scum and there's nothing that would change your mind on it

Disagree. That’s only if you don’t believe scum would shoot nexus.

if ur scum im literally going to hand the game to you

Here you're saying that you don't possibly see Porkens being scum

yeah so i'm done with this. do not care anymore.

VOTE: porkens

UNVOTE:

You’re having a lot of emotions very quickly

that was a fake vote

VOTE: porkens

this one is real

But then here, you're voting Porkens because? idk


It could be that you tried to find a way out with PK and now that NM has replaced in and me and Porkens don't trust you, you feel like you can't win that battle and so you're trying to win the other battle of Ali v Porkens

[CreativeMod1]

So you're trying to throw? If you're actually town then wtf?

Like there's just no logic to anything you've done.

Honestly, if I'm wrong here then I don't even feel bad about it, i stand by my reads about you and Ali and I'm not even sorry about it anymore, you've dug yourself into this hole and from what I see you're voting Porkens to try to save your team in a quick emotional lapse of judgement and it's backfired, I don't believe that you or anyone would just throw the game like that because it's just childish and immature and you shouldn't play if you're gonna throw games

[CreativeMod1]

i've become the joker

I'm a joker
I'm a smoker
I'm a midnight toker
I get my lovin' on the run
Ooh, whoo, ooh, whoo

I don't believe that you're just giving up, I'd like to think that nobody would just give up

You're just getting desperate as scum because nothing is working

[CreativeMod1]

Welp this has been a productive day...

As I head to sleep soon, I shall leave you all with a couple of questions because we need to sort out a solve here...

1) Who do you think are partners together
2) Who do you think is most likely to be scum

Hopefully with some answers we can get an idea on where we should vote, I'd also like to hear some views from NM if he's read through the game, a fresh set of eyes could be helpful

[CreativeMod1]

Lol so it's a bad thing for me to try and get people to vote for who I think is scum?
And apparently is someone you think is scum too?

[CreativeMod1]

sorry you couldn't whine your way into getting people to believe you're town?

[CreativeMod1]

You guys talk a lot in like 24 hours haha

Tbh I'm here for the dino memes and nothing else

I was dead set on not letting a player cause us to lose because they wasn't there

Okay imagine for a second that you're at miscancel/lose and there's 1 player who has done literally nothing all game and it's not because they're hiding or anything, it's because they just don't care and it's decided that we cancel that player... That player flips town and we lose the game

We play a game for ages and we lose because someone decided not to play, how shit is that? That's what I'm trying to avoid and yes I completely understand the argument from the other side of: a scum not bothering to play ends up winning the game because they've done nothing... That too would be a shit outcome

Both outcomes are shit. The difference is, I'm looking at the alternatives and seeing whether in my eyes I feel like they are scum, if I had felt that everyone else was town then yeah I'd go back to the silent guy but I have 2 players who I feel are scum and those are my reads

Now then, you can give it all the defeatist "oh I give up, I'm sick of being a town who has a town scum reading me" but frankly I've seen that argument fool players before

I once played in a game where someone got caught out as being scum, they then claimed to be a 3rd party role anti-scum role who needs to stay hidden in order to win (they win if they're killed by scum) went off on this massive thing of "oh what's the point, I give up, I've lost the game so what's the point" and town was sympathetic to said player and kept them alive... Get to the endgame and turns out that player was scum all along and everyone had fallen for their act.

What you're doing is reminding me of that act.


As for why I want your vote against Ali is because you say that you don't trust Ali and you think Ali is scum but I don't think you'd follow through with it because you're their partner. It was a bit of a reaction test, see whether you'd push back or go along with it

What you've got to remember is at the time I have nothing to go off when it comes to you v PK, so yes I've got to interrogate you, it's the only thing I can do, if PK was around more than I would interrogate them

[CreativeMod1]

Lol didn't mean to quote that quote xD haha

[CreativeMod1]

yes. suddenly the way he talked about that slot started making sense, how he just automatically calls it town for not engaging with the game, why he kept threatening me to vote for alisae while at the same time calling me scum and trying to deflect away from reading in me/pk - there's no reason for a town player to not try to read there but tactically it's much more preferable for scum to get the jailkeeper voted and guarantee a win.

Lol, now we have the omgus

I love how it's down as your last option because its really the only card you can play at this point

PK has been replaced by someone whose gonna be active
Porkens you can't attack because it'd be clear that you are choosing Ali over him
Hiraki you can't attack because if Hiraki is scum then it's proven that Ali is town (based on Night 1 events) and again you can't show yourself to be siding with Ali

So that leads you back to me, despite you repeatedly saying that you're 100% confident I'm town

[CreativeMod1]

Also oh look whose defending Ali again

Ya know, the same Ali who caused all 3 town cancels?

The one who lol hammered Clark despite being the only one who saw that you were trying to save Clark

The one who pulled a wagon off of you on Day 2 and then led a cancel on Nexus

The one who quick hammered on Umlaut on Day 3 because 2 people had left votes on from days and days ago

But yes, please go ahead and defend the person who is clearly the town JK

[CreativeMod1]

Look I get you're in a tough position, you had everyone else set as Town except from PK and the town thinks that you're scummier than PK so you gotta find a way to protect yourself

[CreativeMod1]

You also mislynched 3 town

Let's compare shall we

Clarkbar: I voted here because a) I trusted Umlaut and they were on this wagon b) Clark had said somethings that didn't sit right with me c) All the other wagons were dying and I kept getting told that it was pointless being on a wagon with very few votes
You voted Clarkbar because? Lol it was funny?

Nexus: you literally led this cancel based on your 'information'

Umlaut: I voted here to apply pressure on someone who started acting scummy and admittedly to save my own ass, but at the time I didn't realise that there was already 2 votes here, I was expecting you wanted to grill him and question him and wanted to have at least a couple of votes on him to apply pressure
You quick hammered on him without anything, not even giving him a chance to defend himself or anything


So yes we have both been on all 3 cancels but our gameplay for why we were on those 3 cancels are very different

[CreativeMod1]

lol you were dead set on saving a partner by making excuses for him

Peta sorry who is your scum team read at the moment?

I think he's saying he thinks it's me and PK/NM

Here's the thing, yesterday, if I was teamed with PK is it really worth saving him and putting myself under fire?

PK would've been dead weight, it wouldn't have been worth it, I had more than enough town credit to ride the rest of the game, I'd get PK canceled yesterday, kill Ali during the night (there's no why they'd save me, they've said it plenty of times) and I doubt Porkens would save Ali
Then it'd leave me at 5 with scummy players that rest of town saw as scummy such as Peta and Umlaut and technically due to an Ali town flip, nobody would've been clear

[CreativeMod1]

Also another thing, if I was scum then I'd have a much easier win here today, I wouldn't be so hard on 2 players, I'd see which cancel would be the easiest and get that through and then random luck that the night killer isn't jailed

There'd be much easier paths to victory then the one I'd currently be on, heck I could probably sit back today and let town destroy each other

[CreativeMod1]

Because even if the night killer is jailed then again there's so much discourse in this town that it wouldn't be too hard to get through at 5 players

[CreativeMod1]

You wanna attack me and call me scum then give actual good logic for it, explain why I'm scum other than the fact that I've called you out as being scum

Explain who I'd kill on Night 1 and why, who I'd kill on night 2 and why and night 3
Explain why I defend Umlaut when I could've gotten an easy cancel day 1, explain why i put myself at the front of a lot of arguments when I could just as easily hide in the back

[CreativeMod1]

I'd see which cancel would be the easiest and get that through and then random luck that the night killer isn't jailed

and then you get called out for your reads not being consistent

Lol, rich coming from you

It's easy to swap reads, everyone changes reads

[CreativeMod1]

your avatar is rly scummy btw

Wow you just can't stop with the personal attacks can you?

[CreativeMod1]

lol you were dead set on saving a partner by making excuses for him

Peta sorry who is your scum team read at the moment?

cm1/n_m. that's weird as fuck, i know, but i think last night confirmed to me it's not alisae and n_m? i understand why hiraki feels like you've been weird today at times but you've had a few times this game where you've just been believably town, being paranoid alisae was trying to play an audacious scum game and rub it in our face with how much e got away with was exactly what i was thinking heading into today. like as i've said before you come across as a town player who has wound up considering wildly unlikely scenarios due to difficulty solving the game, and not someone forcing an agenda. i wouldn't want to backtrack on what i thought was a towntell from cm1 but

nothing else makes sense

.

+ EOD yesterday means you definitely aren't teamed with CM1, i think. i guess i can't rule out n_m + you for any strong reason but it looks far less likely to me

What about last night confirms its not Ali/NM?

Also love how the 2 Scummest people are teaming up to take on the player who both of them massively town read, despite the fact that both of these 2 players both scum read each other

[CreativeMod1]

CM, numerically, how confident were you that Umlaut was scum?

50/50 like the wagon on him was really weird but I felt like since then he hadn't really done a lot of scum hunting, more of just jumping on things

I wanted to question him more like I've been doing with Ali and Peta but that was ripped away from me

[CreativeMod1]

If I wanted to remove the 'jail keep' from the game then I'd just kill Ali in the night, regardless of how scummy they act, a jail keep is too strong

[CreativeMod1]

Again your both dodging the big questions here, if I was scum then who would my night kills be?

In fact now that I think about it, killing me on night 2 would be perfect for both of you, not just Ali because I've been hard against both of you and you could tell already that I'm someone who stands by their reads and you knew that I was dangerous to keep alive

[CreativeMod1]

What about last night confirms its not Ali/NM?

Also love how the 2 Scummest people are teaming up to take on the player who both of them massively town read, despite the fact that both of these 2 players both scum read each other

i had my vote up on porkens for a good 30 minutes while alisaeand n_m were posting, because i was fully tapped out and did not care anymore, the game was 100% a loss if you were town. they did not hammer. don't try to argue that to me now because there's no point.

yeah suddenly i realized the guy with the constant bad reasoning to scumread me who treats nothing i say in good faith isn't a stubborn moron but someone who is trying to push a mislynch to win the game, who would have thought

Means nothing, both you and Hiraki were both around and talking to, if 1 of them voted and either of you unvoted then they'd be caught out

Also that's great and all but it also could've been a setup... You vote for Porkens, and have Ali there waiting, if NM votes Porkens then Ali can move in for another one of their quick hammers

[CreativeMod1]

Also I find it funny that this argument of yours hinges on the fact that you voted for one of your biggest town reads because you wanted to throw the game

[CreativeMod1]

no that's an irrelevant question fuck off

What's an irrelevant question?

[CreativeMod1]

If you're saying that me asking about my night kills is an irrelevant question then I really don't see how it's irrelevant

Like hasn't that been the basis of a lot of arguments? Saying certain people must be town or scum because they would/wouldn't make certain kills

[CreativeMod1]

Also going back, okay you've got your reason as to why you've gone from Ali being scum and me being town to Ali being town and me being scum

What's Ali's reason for the sudden flip?

[CreativeMod1]

Hiraki what are your reads?

I'm pretty sure gamesolve is in Porkens/PK/Peta. Peta is there moreso as a third option just so it looks more complete and I don't trust myself this game as much as I did before.

CM1's arguments are not very convincing. Just a general note.

So whilst I feel quite strongly about my reads, I do want to make sure that I listen to others who I trust and use that to help make sure I don't make the wrong move. Could you please explain to me why you think it's Porkens...also could you explain what you feel is wrong about my reads? And what makes you think Ali is town?

Also if Porkens is scum then that means Nexus was attacked night one, could you explain why you think Porkens would want to attack Nexus night 1

---

@CM1 thank you. How would you describe the progression on your read on alisae from day 1 to today?

Day 1: Not a massive read on Ali to start with, tbh Day 1 doesn't make a lot of sense for me with some of these types of games because there's literally nothing to go on, nobody has any information so everything here was weak and I was just trying to find something that felt odd. My vote on Ali didn't mean a lot, more just to add some pressure and hope that if a wagon formed then something could happen and we could learn something. As I said when I changed my vote, I had been planning on moving away from Ali for a while but didn't want to unvote without a new vote because I did find what they said about Umlaut to be a bit odd

Day 2: My read on Ali got bigger, to start off with their lol hammer didn't sit right, especially after they said that they felt that Peta's unvote was a sign that they thought Clark was a town but this got worse when Ali kept trying to stop me from questioning things, like fair if Ali thinks that Peta is town but the only way for us to truly scum hunt is question things we think are scummy. Ali's claim to being JK made me worried a little bit but I figured that I would go along with it as the rest of the town had and we didn't have any other information to go off

Day 3: Ali's claim for jailing Porkens and why they picked him just didn't make sense, this is where I started to really want to push towards Ali but alas there wasn't enough of other people who felt the same way so it dropped off, I let my guard down with Ali at the end of the day and I hoped we'd learn something by how they talked to Umlaut after I voted, I didn't expect the hammer at all

Day 4: Well at this point my read on Ali has shot up, they've done so many scummy things that just don't make sense, they've been in control of the town the whole game and so I pushed hard on Ali. The hammer on Umlaut without so much of a conversation was crazy.

---

@Alisae, Peta, CM1

Why do you townread Hikari? I’m not asking you to scumread him, I want to understand your reasons to help me sort him.

So for starters if Ali is scum then Hiraki must be town, it's impossible otherwise and I'm pretty sold on Ali being scum (but I'll listen to what Hiraki thinks here about Porkens)

As for Hiraki themselves, if we look at night actions as it's been pointed out to me...why would Hiraki kill Nexus? (see I do learn some things) Like why would anyone kill Nexus? it's surely got to be that Hiraki was attacked.

My town read on Hiraki comes a lot from their early game, but I'll have a look through their ISO to confirm this read.

Oh also as I'd stated previously, nearly every partner combo is pretty much impossible

Hiraki: I don't see why Hiraki would kill Nexus or why anyone would kill Nexus also who would Hiraki's partner be? It'd be impossible to be Ali due to Night 1 claims, I can't see it being Porkens because there'd be a lot of unnecessary bussing right now when they could easily just win the game by voting Ali here, PK/NM and you, it'd mean that vote 1 was an all-town vote

---

ftr porkens that frustration vote from earlier no longer applies, i'm not voting you again today, ever. too manyreasons to not think you are scum. i think we're probably going to end up at a deadlock. game's not lost yet although i was sure for a while it was

Can I ask, what happens if we're in a complete deadlock? like as a town we can't decide on someone to cancel and so don't cancel anyone and then if Mafia refuse to kill in the night? like what happens if that cycle continues over and over? this is probably a

@MOD

question but yeah

[CreativeMod1]

who would Hiraki's partner be? It'd be impossible to be Ali due to Night 1 claims, I can't see it being Porkens because there'd be a lot of unnecessary bussing right now when they could easily just win the game by voting Ali here, PK/NM and you, it'd mean that vote 1 was an all-town vote

I’m fuzzy on the last half of this. Remind me why they could easily win the game at that moment if hikari were scum?

Hiraki/Ali is impossible (unless scum no-killed night 1)
Hiraki/Porkens would be crazy bussing when they could easily jump on Ali wagon here which I'm on and for a long time Peta was on and thus have the win easily there
Hiraki/PK would mean that the first vote was an all-town vote against Clarkbar, which I highly doubt
Hiraki/Peta would again mean that the first vote was all-town
Hiraki/Me well I know my alignment but again I would've gotten them to jump on the Ali wagon and we'd win easy as both Porkens and Peta would be up for that, and if Peta wanted to make the vote Peta v PK then I would've just let that happen and not be fussed on which side of that vote wins

[CreativeMod1]

VOTE: No-Cancel

I agree that I think this is probably our best thing to do right now, force the mafia into making a kill and yeah, I think I can see why you'd say no save because otherwise it could force us into being forced to cancel tomorrow when we're still at a stuck point

[CreativeMod1]

Wait, wtf!
Ali, don't play in a game with me again, if as a town you actually think it's acceptable to say some of the things you've said this game to me then no, I don't want to see you again.

Fuck, I'm so lost, I was so sure of Ali and its completely thrown off my whole game, I'm going to back to sleep, don't wanna live in a reality where Ali is town.

Okay we gotta make sure that we be extremely careful on votes here, only vote if you're 100% confident that a person is Mafia otherwise if you're wrong then Mafia can jump on the votes and quick hammer to victory

I have a question before I sleep though, Porkens you seemed to also be on the anti-Ali train yesterday... Why did you protect them during the night on night 3?
Also who did you protect last night?

[CreativeMod1]

Hiraki, could you please explain to me your reads about Porkens and your reads on why I was wrong about Ali/Peta (I mean obviously I know now I was wrong about Ali but I still don't understand it and I don't understand their whole game)

[CreativeMod1]

i'm banking on it
VOTE: creativemod1

Oh My God U Suck, you're literally attacking me now because you've got nowhere else to go also I love how the person who yesterday said not to vote quickly is now voting quickly

wonder if the guy who tunneled the town jailkeeper all game and tried to get them removed is scum
tough thought

Or maybe I tunneled Ali because they were damn scummy, I was suspicious of them Day 1 before I knew they were JK, I was suspicious of them Day 2 when they kept defending you before they claimed JK, I let it go for a bit during the end of Day 2 after they claimed, I was suspicious during Day 3 when there was a doc claim and Ali's actions didn't add up and then I was massively suspicious during Day 4 after their actions at the end of Day 3 were crazy.

And whilst yes I went hard against Ali, I feel I had good reason to do so, also I wasn't the only one who was suspicious of Ali and wanted their cancel, Porkens and you were suspicious of Ali, so don't turn this all onto me

does alisae ever get shot in any universe where this guy is town? no. 0% chance.

Why would I shoot Ali? Like seriously, if I was scum all I'd need is 1 vote against a townie at this point and it wouldn't matter which townie and there was more than enough in-fighting to make that happen easily. my best shot would be Hiraki and then it'd be easy to win somewhere with Porkens v Ali.

I think I know who would shoot Ali, Porkens...He knows that shooting Hiraki would make him look really bad so can't shoot there and he needs to take some heat off of him so his only shot it Ali and he can use that to a) turn town against me and b) have less people against him

faking that emotion toward alisae is also fucking disgusting after the way he's played this entire game

After the way I've played this game? hahahahahahahaha, that's so rich, honestly this game has been so toxic and I'm furious at the way I've been treated by mainly Ali and a bit yourself...I can ensure you that my emotions towards Ali are not fake


Okay so, lets say that I'm scum. we're still yet to have an answer to: Why would I kill Hiraki/Nexus? Why would I kill Porkens? Why would I kill PK? (Or, before you say it, why would I send PK to make the kill) Why would I throw myself under suspicion to save PK? Why would I tunnel so much on someone when there's plenty of options for an easy win? Heck yesterday I could've easily joined in the Porkens vote, killed off porkens and then made a night kill and win the game.

no that's an irrelevant question fuck off

Apparently these are irrelevant questions but surely they're the most important ones?

[CreativeMod1]

you deserved everything in the way you've been treated and more. you played in a deliberate attempt to wind alisae up and get em to rage. you have been one of the most singularly unpleasant personalities i have ever had to deal with, and that is putting it diplomatically. the innocent act won't do it for me. if you're town you should be begging for me to unvote you.

like this is how scum just turns off their brain and tunnels someone until they die
but CM1 NOOOOOOOOO THAT SLOT CAN'T POSSIBLY BE SCUM, THEY'RE TOO FUCKING TOWNIE

literal definition of trash player
has the worst possible reads and gets people to act upon them

Don't play again
if you do stick to the newbie queue, thats where you fucking belong

pedit: No vote me get me out of this dogshit game

Ah yes, I definitely deserved this, you're so right.

Do yourself a favour and reread the comments leading up to when Ali said this, see that I wasn't the only person who was pushing against Ali at the time but yet, Ali made a personal attack against me. So yes I am pissed off and I have every right to be and this wasn't anywhere near the start of it.

Why can't you see that forgetting the game, this was a horrible thing for Ali to say, why can't you see why I'm so pissed off about it? Oh it's because I was suspicious of you too and so therefore you think it's fine to treat me like shit?

Is that how things work on MS, if someone thinks you scum you have every right to treat them like shit? It's open season for insults.

Here's a lesson for next time you play with a newer player DON'T TREAT THEM LIKE SHIT!!! Everyone is allowed to make mistakes and have wrong reads but treating them like shit for it isn't going to help them, insulting them for their reads isn't going to make them change. I stopped caring about what you and Ali had to say a long time ago because half of what you're both saying is just insulting.

And also, this has been going on from right at the start of the game, Hiraki called it out at the start of Day 2, long before I started tunnelling Ali

u also treated him like shit the whole game so....................

I had even asked nicely for Ali to stop treating me like shit early game, saying something that I felt like was them putting me down

Please stop saying HELLO?????? to me, it feels like you're treating me like I'm stupid, just because I have different views to you does not make me stupid

At the end of the day it's better to question things then to just let it slide, I would rather question something and be proved wrong then to not question something and let scum get away with it

And the response was another insult

its a terrible take that shows your lack of understanding of the game

This happened on Page 3 of the second day....please tell me what I had done by that point to deserve this? At that point I was questioning you for your actions at the end of Day 1, along with other members of the town...but yet again Ali made it personal and attacked me.

You're saying that I've done stuff to wind Ali up? Please show me where before this comment I have done stuff to wind Ali up? I think you'll find that Ali has been winding me up all game and everything I have said and done is in retaliation to all of it

Regardless of who is scum in game here, what Ali said to me all throughout game is horrible and I'm pissed off about it and I have been pissed off about it all game long and frankly the only reasons I haven't replaced out is because 1) This game has had enough replacements and I didn't wanna do that to the mod 2) Given this is my first game back on MS, I didn't want to be shown as someone who quits games.

[CreativeMod1]

Right, rant over, back to the game

there was plenty of time for discussion yesterday. the flip does not change my views significantly and i want to force a 1v1 before anyone else votes. if i am wrong i accept that responsibility.

Plenty of time but yet you didn't answer my questions.

The funny thing here is that you call me out as being scum but yet you're not really saying anything to back it up, your whole reasoning hinges on the fact that I called you scum, you fail to actually find anything wrong with most of my game and the only thing you can find is the fact that I tunneled you and Ali...I still feel like I had good reason to tunnel Ali for their actions but you'll notice that near the end of yesterday I was actually starting to think about things and was willing to listen to Hiraki's opinions about Ali v Porkens. I know and recognise that a lot of my tunnelling on Ali was from being so pissed off with them and how they treated me because I couldn't see a townie talking like that.

But okay, you wanna make it a 1v1, I laid out a massive case for why you're scum yesterday, stuff that's independent of an Ali flip but you still fail to answer why I'd make certain night kills

you would think being devastatingly, cripplingly wrong in your sole focused scumread for the entire game would giver a moment of pause and yet there is none

i wonder why that is

I think you'll find that I did give a moment of pause, the first thing I did was ask someone else about their reads and why my reads were wrong

Hiraki, could you please explain to me your reads about Porkens and your reads on why I was wrong about Ali/Peta (I mean obviously I know now I was wrong about Ali but I still don't understand it and I don't understand their whole game)

[CreativeMod1]

the anger directed toward you there was because they didn't think you were scum. i felt alisae was over the line and tried to get em to stop, but that is largely irrelevant now. i don't condone the things e said but don't care for you trying to act innocent. i have been uncommonly restrained in my dealing with you and tried to play as diplomatically as possible because i felt it would be unfair to unload on someone who is just trying to get back into games. i held back until it became clear that you were ignoring everything i had to say and were actively lying about my own actions in-thread while trying to intimidate me into voting for alisae. this game your persistent repetitive tunnelvision, incredibly poor arguments, and general lack of receptiveness to points made by others have been uniquely aggravating beyond all else. i suspect this was strategy on your part, that you are not dense or dumb but chose to play into that role to appear town, but either way you need to actually own up to how you've played.

You felt Ali was over the line....but yet I deserve everything? Hmm which is it?
Also how have I lied about your actions.

i don't need to actively put reasoning, if you think i'm scum you need to explain why i kill alisae if you're both town. good luck with that one.

Why? because you noticed at the end of the day yesterday that I was actually starting to listen to Hiraki, that I was asking Hiraki for his reads and you were probably worried that Hiraki could be the only person who'd get through to me

The other thing is that given how you started going against me yesterday, you probably felt that I was more inclined to vote for you over Ali and so you hoped that an Ali kill would make me think about the gamestate and make me rethink you.

Also Ali makes sense as the kill for literally everyone, given that Porkens said that they wasn't gonna doc, if a kill gets blocked Night 4 then it must've been due to Ali and we know due to the rules stated yesterday that Mafia either had to attempt a kill Night 3 or kill Night 4, if there wasn't a kill last night then Ali must've been the cause of no kill on 1 of those 2 nights (If Mafia no-killed last night then they must've attempted to kill on Night 3, a blocked kill on Night 3 was either due to Ali's JK or from Porkens protecting Ali) thus clearing Ali as being town. I might have tons of suspicions about Ali but I'm not stupid enough to ignore when someone gets mechanically cleared.
If Mafia tried to kill outside of Ali then it risks the kill being blocked as they wouldn't know who Ali would've jailed

again, if you were town, i would expect there to be at least

slight

moment of pause, some reconsideration of "wow, i was horribly wrong, i need to re-think what i'm doing this game", but, nope, nada, no rethinking at all, just back to the other read i've been riding all game, surely this one can't be wrong too

Maybe you just didn't read what I said so I'll quote it again...

you would think being devastatingly, cripplingly wrong in your sole focused scumread for the entire game would giver a moment of pause and yet there is none

i wonder why that is

I think you'll find that I did give a moment of pause, the first thing I did was ask someone else about their reads and why my reads were wrong

Hiraki, could you please explain to me your reads about Porkens and your reads on why I was wrong about Ali/Peta (I mean obviously I know now I was wrong about Ali but I still don't understand it and I don't understand their whole game)

This quote is literally me re-thinking the whole game, me asking Hiraki why my reads were wrong because obviously I had gotten it wrong about Ali and therefore could've been wrong about you too

The only thing that I said against yourself before you made this claim that I'm not rereading the game was saying that you put down an OMGUS vote, because your whole reasoning to think I'm scum is because I thought you were scum.

[CreativeMod1]

So ngl I've avoided talking all day because I needed a break from arguing.

Firstly, what's this mean?

you didn't bring the kain tepes vigor like i asked

I noticed that during Peta's period of having a vote on me, there wasn't 2 players on at the same time, so therefore it wasn't possible to have a quick-hammer against me which means we gained no information about it.

I think following on from Ali's flip Porkens makes the most sense as being scum here due to Night 2

Either Maf tried to kill Porkens or Porkens tried to kill. I can't think of a good reason as to why anyone would try to kill Porkens at Night 2

As for the partner, everything in me screams that I want it to be Peta, I don't want to be wrong about both Ali and Peta....but I'm willing to think about things and think logically.

I think the smart move here would be go for Porkens cancel today and see how the other 2 react, annoyingly we've got so little from PK that we've got to judge things on how NM is now and how Peta has been, I'm looking through Peta and Porkens to see if there's a potential of these 2 being maf together.

RAWR SCREEEEEEEEE STORMP STOMP STARMP

VOTE: petapan

I read up last night and at first blush this is scuuuuuuuuum

first things first: 253 from CM1 is a town post. i don't agree with the conclusion (i think he's just reading into playstyle) but from someone with not much experience it's a legit attempt to scumhunt looking at something he found suspect.

81 and 82 from z3kidny looked decently like newbtown as well but pisskop's replace-in catchup sucked fat hog and kind of whithered my goodwill there

so like i don't know how to do this without someone screaming "omg amished tell" but i liked alisae for town before i subbed in because e called out sleepersoul in the exact way i was thinking when i was reading. then i got the role pm for that slot instead of the cultofathena one and it's town. still, the process there is like my own thinking even if the conclusion is wrong. thats the main reason for my townread though and i dont wanna bullshit around it.

the umlaut vote feels low percentage right now his reaction to pressure doesn't look scummy and the case isn't strong

nexus came out the gate strong but has faded really hard, he's been coasting. i dunno

hiraki, uh, i'd say there's a veneer of towniness but nothing that strongly pulls me. he's been mostly tunneled on umlaut for an early page remark and not looking much outside. not impossible to fake but i'm going to guess it's coming from legit conviction.

cultofathena hadn't said a lot but what they said looked decent iirc

clarkbar is really bad and i wanna vote there

if clarkbar is scum i think pisskop has some partner equity but otherwise look to nexus maybe

Can you say what's bad about ClarkBar? I've been pretty meh on his slot overall but I haven't really seen anything that says scum and I recall liking a few of his posts.

i dunno how you were in the newbie game with him where he was very obviously trying to scumhunt and here and don't see the difference. go back and look at his ISO. the line about "I don't know how to proceed in a game like this where everyone knows each other and seem to have a more fun/relaxed approach. I do feel I'm out of my depth here a little." is a relatable lil' emotional appeal but it takes me back to my rookie epicmafia days where i used that line on a table full of vets and it got me a pass as scum. it fels like there's a real lack of

try

there, his only two real suspicions have been on major wagons, he's got a lot of filler, he's not really questioning and evaluating people.

pisskop standing his ground and refusing to actually provide content is kinda townish? or are they just always like this

These posts caught me as scumtalk
Welp time to go to work.

Okay so lets say I'm wrong, why Porkens?

ive been trying to explain this over and over? like are you not reading my posts or what

Maybe I need to put this into paragraph form, and use capitalization and punctuation. Okay, so Porkens replaces in and immediately starts off by calling me scum: 489 490. Then 11 posts later in 501 he just decides to hop on the Clark wagon, the one I was very obviously leading. His only excuse for this in 602 is that "Clark was “eh” and I didn’t see a good reason to tryhard to alter the gamestate.". This isn't really a believable thing for a town player to say, when do you ever vote with your top scumread? The fact is by putting his vote on clark he

was

altering the gamestate by putting Clark at C-1 making him the most likely one to die that day, even if I was unlikely to be the cancel that day he could have

tried

to vote elsewhere, but he didn't. The way he's come in to today going on about how Alisae is defending me so we

must

be scum together is absurd, that's the kind of connection a complete noob might make but extremely implausible for an experienced player to actually think, because games rarely play out that way. It looks like an extremely fake reasoning coming from someone who mostly wants to smear two of the most active and assertive players as scum to discredit us. It doesn't look like there's a real investigative process there, he's just been calling me scum then justifying a partner read on the assumption I HAVE to be scum. The whole thing is starting from the conclusion I'm scum and looking up ways to justify it, not making a real honest inquiry.

So these are some of the earlier interactions between Porkens and Peta, could be some distancing happening at the start and then on Day 2 Porkens kinda hopped on but didn't say too much about Peta himself, more of used it to push against Ali due to how Ali was reacting.

Porkens did jump onto the vote but I think that was more of a move to hide the fact that they're partners in case Peta did get canceled.

Alright funs over

CLAIMING JAILKEEPER I BLOCKED NEXUS

Solve is Nexus/PK

I'll explain how I got here but I feel really good about this

Spicy

VOTE: unvote

It's interesting how quickly Porkens jumped off of the Peta wagon after Ali's claim, especially given how much suspicion he was throwing towards Ali before their claim.

yeah so i'm done with this. do not care anymore.

VOTE: porkens

UNVOTE:

You’re having a lot of emotions very quickly

that was a fake vote

VOTE: porkens

this one is real

Final main point to make is this vote here, it just feels weird in many ways and doesn't sit well with me


Idk, these aren't the strongest of reasons why it could be Porkens/Peta, I think my reasons I've stated previously for Peta alone are stronger reasons for why Peta is scum but I could believe a Porkens/PK team

[CreativeMod1]

I think you'll find that I said I was unsure about the Peta v NM debate as we couldn't really learn a lot from PK and as such I think we'd learn more from seeing how you guys discuss things today

Also I'm putting things out there and asking for Hirakis opinions because I know I was wrong about Ali and therefore could be wrong about you too

[CreativeMod1]

For the last time, I'm making points about there being a potential team of Peta/Porkens....I haven't fully decided yet and I'm not sure on it, but the interactions today are very telling

Porkens vote is interesting, on the one hand it could be a bus to try and gain some town cred to win the game tomorrow on the other hand it could be him knowing that Hiraki won't vote me today and so is hoping that Hiraki will vote NM today and get the win there.

I honestly don't know what's best right now and it's frustrating

[CreativeMod1]

yes i remember how you tried to divert that discussion into a vote on the flipped town jailkeeper, whose lynch would have automatically won the game for scum

really odd how the mafia team didn't take advantage of that

Oh also btw, interesting that Porkens did try to take advantage of that...hmm makes you think

VOTE: Porkens

This game has gone on long enough, I've been fooled enough and I think I'll listen to Ali for once and sheep Hiraki. I'm still not sure whether it's between Peta or NM, I think I'm leaning more towards Peta but I won't fully discount NM tomorrow

I would appreciate Hiraki explaining at some point (maybe postgame) why he saw Ali as being town because I'm still struggling to see how they weren't scum

[CreativeMod1]

I actually read through all your posts CM1. What I saw was constant tunneling on Ali except when you needed to hop off that tunnel to get on a miscancel. All of your miscancels were “50/50” reads (that’s an actual quote I even asked you post mort about umlaut). But you never drew a line in the sand to get ali cancelled.

Your post are also 90% over sharing fluff and qualifications. It’s always “I think this but I’m not sure” and “ah man rant over now to fluff about some more”

On the surface, it looks townie, like you are being open. But it’s not- it’s a smoke screen for what you are doing: see above.

Your suspicions are based on who you need to scumread at the moment.

I’m sorry you had PK for a partner, and I’m sorry that Ali and Peta were so mean to you, I thought you handled that well. I’m hoping your scum PT is a fun confessional read about how you were trying to tilt them the whole time.

It's interesting that you say that I constantly tunneled Ali except from to jump off to get on wagons with 50/50 reads
When you did pretty much the same thing

You were a lot more subtle about it but you were very much on the anti-ali train all game but letting me take the fall for it but you flipped and made a couple of miscancels too

I have a question for you btw... Why didn't you try to protect Ali on Night 2? Like I get if you don't 100% buy their claim but surely it would've looked really bad on you if Ali had died on Night 2 and then you came out as doc and you hadn't protected them

Also I appreciate what you said about Ali and Peta, honestly it's ruined this whole game for me to the point that it's not fun and I'm just finishing it for the sake of finishing it

[CreativeMod1]

You literally have no reason not to hammer N_M here based on what you yourself have said.

Urm I do if it's you and Peta, then you're just baiting me to mis-cancel

Also I appreciate what you said about Ali and Peta, honestly it's ruined this whole game for me to the point that it's not fun and I'm just finishing it for the sake of finishing it

you get out what you put in. i tried to engage with you diplomatically as long as possible and showed uncommon restraint, until it became clear that nothing i said actually mattered to you. you can't play with a strategy to intentionally aggravate others and then act wounded when those people do, in fact, get aggravated with you. what alisae said to you this game was over the line. (my paranoia over em yesterday was because i'd thought they'd stooped to a truly dirty level of emotional appeal to win as scum). but your feelings are not the only ones that matter. alisae's still a person playing the game and the way you treated em pushed em over the edge and made em want to quit. this was likely deliberate on your part, and i cannot fault you for appearing convincingly town, but this is what you get when your play is to annoy people with repetitive arguments.

your little victim act at the start of the day with no consideration for how you made the other player feel? fucking disgusting. total low blow.

Hmm so on the one hand you have Ali who spent the game insulting another player at a personal level and then on the other hand you have me who put forward some scum reads and stood by them and followed through on them when said player did scummier things.

Yeah I think I know who has the moral high-ground here. I would never, absolutely never try to make someone quit, all I did was put forward arguments as to why I thought that they were scum.

[CreativeMod1]

anyway, one more time for the road:

Hiraki, if I were mafia with porkens, I'd have nightkilled you

this is in addition to basically everything between us on the first two days that should point to us not being aligned

I highly disagree with this statement. Based on what Ali has said previously about using their powers to protect rather than block, there's no doubt that Ali protected Hiraki last night

If your attack got blocked by Ali then Ali would've been 100% cleared and thus would've made for Porkens being put under the exact same pressure as he's under right now

Furthermore, your reasoning for the night kill would apply to me too anyway, a Hiraki kill would make the most sense for me as it'd mean that I could easily get Porkens on the wagon against Ali

[CreativeMod1]

I think Hiraki, although they didn't post at the same time, it is possible that NM and Porkens were online at the same time earlier when Peta had voted for me and there wasn't an attempt at a quick hammer....so I think it's more likely that it's Porkens/Peta

I think that they're trying to bait you into cancelling NM here and I don't think it's wise to let them trick you

[CreativeMod1]

I'm still not sure on PK/NM tbh

I think we go for Porkens today, I hate how much their baiting us here

It's gotta be bad when your number 1 scum read and your number 3 scum read are trying to get you to do the same thing

[CreativeMod1]

If this is bussing then it's some risky ass bussing, I don't buy it

Like I think Porkens (your number 1 scum read) and Peta (your number 3 scum read) are trying to get you to vote for NM

[CreativeMod1]

They know it's the only card they have left

[CreativeMod1]

They've seen that you said that Porkens/NM is a bigger scum read for you then Porkens/Peta and they're playing into it because they know that you'd never cancel me

[CreativeMod1]

As much as I hate to agree with Peta, if me and Peta were a team I would've hammered by now

[CreativeMod1]

IKR!!! truly the worst thing we've done all game

[CreativeMod1]

this is also why i'd rather go to bed

CM1 and I are practically confirmed townies, not that it helped much. even though he pinged me last page, i dont see why he doesn't take this opportunity as scum (unless he is truly cheeky), therefore giving me a little confidence boost

on the flip side, that would also confirm porkens scum by virtue of assuming CM1 is town, therefore proving me right, which is something I do like

Lol funny how the 2 scummy players tried pushing onto the 2 practically confirmed townies, I did notice yesterday Porkens fishing for who would flip on you.

Actually the fact that my biggest reasoning for thinking you're town is based on my townread on Ali...maybe that's why Porkens killed Ali

[CreativeMod1]

*scumread on Ali lol xD I really shouldn't still be playing at 7am

[CreativeMod1]

Hiraki, I'm pretty confident that NM isn't scum

[CreativeMod1]

Don't hammer NM, look at how much they're begging you to do it

[CreativeMod1]

Hiraki, if you're confident I'm town then trust me on this one...it's Porkens and Peta

Just look at their whole interactions today.

If it's really Porkens and NM then there is some crazy bussing at work

[CreativeMod1]

We could've won yesterday, there was a long period in which there was 2 votes on Porkens and neither of them were me or NM

It'd be simple, cancel Porkens and then kill Ali

[CreativeMod1]

no what the fuck are you talking about, the team is CM1/N_M like i've been saying FOR SEVERAL DAYS, as became eminently clear when he kept trying to protect pisskop in favor of an alisae vote. jesus christ.

I think if you look at my reasoning for protecting PK was because it'd be really shitty if we lost because a townie decided to do nothing

And again look at both yours and Porkens reasoning for wanting to cancel PK

[CreativeMod1]

VOTE: porkens
this is the hill im going to die on
idc anymore
i'm demoralized and i don't deserve to win the game

UNVOTE:

gnight.

This is how long Porkens was on 2 votes for...whilst yes PK wasn't around that much, I could've easily jumped on that wagon quietly and then when a replacement came in or when PK turned up, they could've hammered...would've made PK look super scummy, they'd be the one in jail and I'd get the kill

Keep in mind that at this point Ali saw me massively as town AND Ali would never want to try to protect me because I scum read them

[CreativeMod1]

I'm not scum and I'd rather not let scum hammer Ali.

Vote: Porkens

Sorry my mistake, this is when the second vote went onto Porkens

[CreativeMod1]

Hikari, the only real question you have to answer is this: Is Peta Mafia? if not, N_M is 100% mafia.

It's so clear that you're trying to get Hiraki to miscancel here

[CreativeMod1]

Hiraki...never ever listen to who you think is scum because everything they're trying to do is all mind-games intended to get you to make the wrong decision

[CreativeMod1]

my thesis has been that me/pk needs to be resolved today anyway since ali-scum just means that needs to be decided tomorrow anyway. i still think porkens yesterday is outside his capacity as scum and i'm settled on my read but for your sake i'll unvote before i go to sleep.

UNVOTE:

and that's the unvote 4 posts later

yes, hiraki, please do not listen to the word of the person who is openly lying about vote timing yesterday to fake clear himself

It's hilarious that these 2 posts are next to each other, that's a very clever trick there Porkens BUT if you look at the votes you'll see that at that period of time Peta wasn't on the Porkens vote, it was Ali and Hiraki

Much later on is when Peta hoped onto that vote (apparently in an attempt to throw the game)

Whilst Peta was on the vote is when Ali unvoted and then Peta unvoted later

[CreativeMod1]

I'm heading off now, Hiraki I'm guessing you've already come offline but when you see this I want you to think about post-game for a second

If you vote for NM and NM flips town and Porkens/Peta win, you're gonna absolutely kick yourself for letting your biggest scum read dictate your vote. Meanwhile your biggest town read is saying to you to vote for Porkens

It's so obvious that these two are working together meanwhile NM clearly doesn't care for this game and isn't even trying, I doubt NM has even read through the whole game and they seem to be just reacting to small things happening today. Surely if NM was mafia they'd be making at least somewhat of an attempt here

At the end of the day, if you're 100% sure that it's Porkens then that's where it's best to vote, when it comes to NM/Peta we can deal with that tomorrow, we'll probably learn something based on who they decide to kill between the pair of us.

I know you probably don't trust me to get it right tomorrow but if it is me who is still in tomorrow then I will go through the whole game and check through everything, Ali flipping town made me requestion a lot of things and a lot of my reads and I'll be calm and careful

[CreativeMod1]

Hahaha, I mean fair play but clearly you didn't look at those game I sent you....I sucked at the few games I have played, I couldn't manipulate a cat with some food

First game (Survivor Legendary) I got to the first tribe swap and I tried to get my old tribe to stay tribe strong as we had the numbers and got tricked and voted out
Second game (Survivor MLP) I got the the merge and I couldn't even get my Allies to stick with me after I literally proved to them that I was telling the truth about someone targeting them
Third game (Disney) I got halfway through the game and used the in-game currency to buy my way into a Rich Players group chat and couldn't even convince them to stay together for more than a couple of votes

My LSG games are examples at how I suck at manipulating people

[CreativeMod1]

Okay so,
Day 1: general Mafia bus to distance, make it look like you're not partners, pretty standard, you don't want to town read each other in case one of you gets flipped at some point and it looks bad

Day 2: Peta did a super scummy action at the end of day 1 and it was noticed, Porkens needs to be on top of this otherwise when Peta flips Porkens is gonna come under fire but as I said earlier, notice how Porkens used this to go after Ali more than throwing suspicion your way

Porkens unvote on that day is the most telling thing

[CreativeMod1]

Wait, wtf!
Ali, don't play in a game with me again, if as a town you actually think it's acceptable to say some of the things you've said this game to me then no, I don't want to see you again.

Fuck, I'm so lost, I was so sure of Ali and its completely thrown off my whole game, I'm going to back to sleep, don't wanna live in a reality where Ali is town.

THIS
looks
fake.

just sayin.

i'm banking on it

VOTE: creativemod1

UNVOTE:

head cleared, stepping away from the computer so unvoting. have words but saving them for a bit later. still think cm1 likely scum. begging porkens and hiraki to not crossvote each other.

Looking back at this period, this is a 13 hour period where if the team is Porkens/NM they could've won and looking at both of their posts from their profiles, there are plenty of times in which both players are online at the same time and could've quick hammered a victory

(

@MOD am I allowed to quote out of game posts for the sake of timestamps?

)

So there's no way it can be a Porkens/NM team

Hiraki it's either Porkens/Peta or Me/NM

[CreativeMod1]

me in mafia chat to porkens: yo bus me and i'll claim vt this is a foolproof plan

Tbh I don't think that was gonna be the original plan, I think the original plan was gonna be to claim a PR role hence why you were adamant about not stating a role until there was intent (I don't see why a VT would need to hide behind this) and then once you claimed a role Porkens would lead the unvote train. But when I unvoted you felt it might gain you more town-cred if you claim VT and it was safer at that point with only 3 votes on you and 1 of them being your partner.

compare that to the unconditional defense of the pk slot by cm1 and default assumption he's town

It wasn't unconditional, I gave my reasons for it, I had to scumhunt PKs slot based on everyone elses actions around them, the scummiest players were calling for his cancel with pretty much nothing and so that made me think that PK was town. The PK slot should always be cancelled last IMO because at that point you're down to 3 players left and you can judge the slot based on if you scum read or town read the other player. It sucks that PK wasn't here and didn't play but we've gotta play with what we've got and at the time I didn't think a PK flip would help us in anyway, if we wasted a miscancel on PK at the time then we would've learned nothing.

your entire style has been fit to form: call a person scum and then try and claim things they do are scummy despite none of it making sense. quite literally the absolute worst argumentation i have ever seen in a game. it's on me for assuming such bad logic had to be town i guess

My entire style has been to question things and put pressure on scummy players and catch them out

[CreativeMod1]

1. hiraki hammered scum in lylo when he could have voted you. he is confirmed town.

As much as I hate to say it, this also clears you Peta

Hiraki, now that I've been proven wrong again can you please explain to me why me reads were so wrong because I still really don't get it, like there was so many things that both Ali and Peta did that I thought were really scummy and I really don't get it.

Peta I'm sorry for going so hard against you, it's just that's what was making sense, I didn't think that Porkens would throw their partner under the bus so hard.

[CreativeMod1]

I have had literally 0 reads on PK/NM all game because they wasn't around and I town-read them for the pure reason of how everyone else was treating them.

I guess that Porkens realised that PK was dead weight and that they had better shot of winning by getting a PK cancel and making themselves look townie

[CreativeMod1]

I mean from my perspective it wouldn't make a difference because you'll just kill someone in the night and say that you got the wrong save. But I'd be okay with a no-cancel if that's what the others think

My worry however is that you'll use todays phase to work out which player would vote for you and which one would vote for me and use that to decide your kill.

But sure if you wanna pretend that you're trying to prove yourself I won't get in the way

[CreativeMod1]

I have noting to fear about a no-cancel. I just know you'll use it as a mind-game to have the right person left alive

I don't think Peta is sold on you, I think they're questioning just to be sure...I'm pretty sure that Peta is on team #CMScum (lol it rhymes)

Also hiraki hasn't said anything yet today so you're making assumptions

[CreativeMod1]

Fair, well anyway at this point it's 100% either me or you due to lack of quick hammers

[CreativeMod1]

What do you mean?

[CreativeMod1]

If you think it's not either me or you then you'll need to really explain how not

[CreativeMod1]

Peta/NM could've hammered you, Hiraki/NM could've hammered you

I don't see how it's not either me or you

[CreativeMod1]

I find it interesting that Porkens is trying to make some weird play about how it could be someone other than me or him

Hiraki, now that I've been proven wrong again can you please explain to me why me reads were so wrong because I still really don't get it, like there was so many things that both Ali and Peta did that I thought were really scummy and I really don't get it.

Peta I'm sorry for going so hard against you, it's just that's what was making sense, I didn't think that Porkens would throw their partner under the bus so hard.

i don't really blame you for doubting alisae because their claim was strange in several regards and i found myself doubting it at several times. i think there's a lesson to be drawn here about real claims sometimes being messy annd strange rather than perfectly crafted. i do think you probably need to learn that the way we interacted is not scum/scum, basically ever.


i could go on a heavy-handed rant to you but to be honest i really don't want to bother at this point. i'm not perfect, i am frequently wrong, and have been many times this game (seeing as how i've suspected literally every single player at some point). being wrong isn't a crime. that's not what pissed me off about you. i asked for a chance to prove myself and you effectively spat in my face by repeating the same fallacious arguments, completely stonewalling everything i said in response, and openly lying about what i was doing when i wanted to shift discussion to me vs pisskop. to throw everything i have into the game and have you claim a literal 0 poster who did not try to play the game is less suspect than me is incredibly insulting. i tried to show patience and restraint far beyond what i have ever done on this account and you acted like a jackass in response to me. you'll have to get feedback from someone else there.

I think there's a lot to be looked back on post game for me and learn about where I went wrong, I think I had it in my head a lot that Ali and you were scum and just couldn't let that go and then the way both of you were pushing NM yesterday made me think that was the team. I'm very happy that Hiraki hammered NM yesterday because chances are Porkens would've killed Hiraki in the night and I probably would've messed up at the end and killed you Peta.

[CreativeMod1]

Alright then. Do what you gatta do.

VOTE: no cancel

We're only a couple of hours into the day and you're already trying to push the No-Cancel

Like I get you wanna 'prove yourself' but isn't it better to talk throughout the day and take advantage of the fact that we have 2 clears?

[CreativeMod1]

occam's razor says porkens is the goon who was stopped from doing the night 2 kill, right? much more probable than the incredibly unlikely scenario that mafia knew he was doc and happened to shoot him the night the jailkeeper targeted him. also cm1 would be the one sending in the kill, i don't think he and pisskop intentionally no-kill night 3, and i don't think they try to shoot the outed jailer when the assumption was e'd be protected

Can you explain to me why I'd be the one sending in the kill?

[CreativeMod1]

From my point of view it’s so funny/sad to watch one of you playing the other.

Either CM1 is either feeding Peta’s paranoia inducing game throw or losing his mind to tunnel vision.

On balance, I think CM1 is likelier scum, but Peta coming in today ready to turn on me after the passionate run up of CM1 yesterday is so inexplicable.



P. Edit: I don’t think anything I say will make any difference at this point.

Peta is clear! Like 100% clear

Peta would only be scum if they were trolling us for endgame

I don't see what you're trying to get at?

[CreativeMod1]

Why are you trying to push us against someone who is clear?? I don't get your game plan here, like are you trying to use my tunnel against me? make me try to vote for Peta?

Also, interesting that there wasn't a kill last night and you haven't outed who you 'saved'

[CreativeMod1]

If it is as you say, wouldn't it be more in scum's favor to not kill anyone so then you look bad if it's not you?

I think he's trying to 'prove' himself by there not being a kill and thus he saved someone

[CreativeMod1]

Idk, if you guys wanna go along with the whole 'no cancel' plan then sure.

I think he feels it'll be easier to convince 1 player rather than 2 and he wants to try and pick the one he's got the most chance of winning with

[CreativeMod1]

So....you're trying to get a proven townie miscanceled instead?

[CreativeMod1]

Swaying 1 player is easy, swaying 2 is harder

I think you No-killed last night in the hopes that someone will think it was a doc save last night

[CreativeMod1]

So....you're trying to get a proven townie miscanceled instead?

Explain how I’m trying to get a proven townie canceled.

Urm....you're trying to make players suspicious of Peta......when he's proven to be town

[CreativeMod1]

Also Porkens you're forgetting that everyone else had me down as mechanically cleared due to not knowing how certain things worked

Like you're the only player it could be at this point.

Yes I've played badly and I've had bad reads all game but there's so much in my favour that says I'm town from the mechanical stuff to the night actions

[CreativeMod1]

I haven't said I'm against it, I'm just pointing out what you're trying to gain from it because 100% tomorrow you'll be like

Oh, why would I go through all the hassle of getting the no-cancel if I'm not actually the doctor

[CreativeMod1]

Lol you think Peta is bluffing everything xD

[CreativeMod1]

Because he's clear

Why are you trying to sway me on this, if he was scum then there's no way he'd have been on the NM vote yesterday, he could've easily joined me and Hiraki on the vote

But okay lets entertain the fact that Peta was trolling us yesterday.

Are you saying that Day 1's cancel was an all-town cancel?

[CreativeMod1]

Honestly Porkens you digged yourself into this hole by making the wrong play.

You should've just killed Hiraki in the night, Peta probably could've easily been swayed into voting me

[CreativeMod1]

It's entertaining because you know that you can't find enough fault in my game past having bad reads and being a bad player and so you were hoping that there might be some bite against Peta

But now you're playing it off as it being a tiny read and trying to justify it by saying that you think Peta is the kind of troll to do that

[CreativeMod1]

Who do you think I tried to kill?

Nobody, you no-killed to make it seem like a doc is still in game

[CreativeMod1]

Huh, fair enough

Lol if I was scum I'd 100% try to kill you because I'd be worried that you wouldn't have flipped away from me xD

[CreativeMod1]

But alas I didn't kill him, which proves the point that I'm not scum

[CreativeMod1]

Lol at this rate we're gonna have more Day phases than players.

I'm happy to no-cancel if the other 2 are, I have nothing to hide but I don't like the fact that you're trying to rush this day phase and not let Hiraki and Peta have time to talk

[CreativeMod1]

i am absolutely not voting NC here i would like for this to be decided one way or the other

Well in that case
VOTE: Porkens

[CreativeMod1]

I was fine with the slowroll but tbh it's a bit meh making this game drag on

[CreativeMod1]

I get what you're saying and if I wasn't 100% sure that you're scum by being the only possible scum left, I'd no-cancel but I can get why Peta doesn't want to

[CreativeMod1]

As usual, your position is situational and needs-based.

My position is that you're 100% scum in my eyes, I don't need to no-cancel, it proves nothing to me because I know nothing will come out of it

But I understand that it's your last card that you can play

[CreativeMod1]

I'm happy to no-cancel if the other 2 wanted to but slow rolling things is just painful now

And yeah I thought it was but at the same time idk how hard it is to coordinate a quick hammer between 2 players

[CreativeMod1]

From my point of view you are scum, this whole no-cancel is 100% a mind game to try and get some form of sway. You tried to use it to make us speed through this day phase so that the 2 clears can't talk (yes for the last time, Peta is clear) and then when someone dies tonight you'll chalk it up tomorrow at getting the wrong save and then you'll start saying that 'oh why would I go through the whole fuss of trying to prove I'm the doc if I'm not actually the doc', 'why wouldn't I use the time to try and show that CM1 is scum instead'

Like if the other 2 had a bit of doubt then sure, I'd be fine to go along with this fake plan so you can try to fake prove yourself. But if the other 2 are so sure it's you then what's the point? Like in my eyes it's just wasting time on a game that's gone on forever

[CreativeMod1]

What do you mean I outed it?

[CreativeMod1]

Nope, don't get it

Unless you're trying to imply that your doc save was stopping me from killing Peta? which'd be super weird given your small push towards Peta

Which means that adding to your idea of Peta trolling us by not winning yesterday, Peta also had to of No-Killed last night

[CreativeMod1]

So looking at the start of day thread, that's 100% not how Peta started today

Peta just simply was stating that he was gonna be having an open mind about today

You were the one who tried to raise suspicion against Peta long before I said I would've killed Peta

Like if you were actually doc you would've said who you saved and used that against me at the start of the day using the whole "Lets be real, CM1 would kill Peta here"

[CreativeMod1]

not rage voting today

my first thought after the flip, though, was "why did i convince myself porkens and pisskop didn't have partner equity?"

my first thought after the flip, though, was "why did i convince myself porkens and pisskop didn't have partner equity?"

And did you come up with an answer?

no

This seems like another nocancel day.

i don't think so, fella. i'd like to talk things over with hiraki and decide it today since he's kept me from going off the rails this game and it's not like one of us dying changes the situation

I don't see what's wrong with this? Or maybe you were hoping that Peta would quickly attack me

[CreativeMod1]

I agree I spent a month pushing for Peta, I also spent that time pushing for Ali and look how that turned out.

If Peta wasn't 100% cleared then yeah I'd probably still be very suspicious of Peta, I'd look back at Day 1 and how okay yeah it was an all-town vote but only cos Peta jumped off

I'd look at a lot of things that pinged me at Peta being scummy.....but he's proven 100% to be town, therefore I'm not suspicious of him at all

In fact it's a big part of why I was so sure that NM was town yesterday is because I was stupid and wouldn't let my suspicions go

[CreativeMod1]

Yeah, again another bad read from me. I couldn't see why Maf would bus so hard

But looking back, I think it makes sense given PK/NM's activity, like lets be real NM didn't really do a lot to help either, they were only a little bit more active than PK

You had a lot more chance at bussing and hoping to win there

[CreativeMod1]

but i do think occam's razor on the night actions makes it pretty clear here.

Sorry, second time you've used the term Occam's razor, I tried looking it up but can't find anything, what does it mean?

[CreativeMod1]

Day 1: pushed Peta, hung Clark
Night 1: tried to kill Nexus
Day 2: pushed Peta and Ali, but didn't want to get on Nexus wagon to save face and let partner take the wrap there
Night 2: Failed to kill due to JK
Day 3: more distrust of Ali and Peta, but yet tried to bus their partner because they're dead weight and then saw the opportunity to miscancel on me and took it
Night 3: Swapped to PK in case Ali stayed on you
Day 4: suggests holster no-cancel hoping to kill Ali without Ali blocking the kill again and giving an excuse as to not doc save Ali
Night 4: Kills Ali
Day 5: Realises that you've got better chance in the final 4 than NM and so busses NM
Night 5: No-killed
Day 6| gets cancelled

Game over town wins YAY.

I fixed it for you

[CreativeMod1]

You knew that PK had replaced site-side and was struggling with work and yet still went down the "He's a lurking scum" route?

Also funny you didn't quote the whole quote where you called me almost certainly town in 1932

[CreativeMod1]

Pisskop sucks because it’s unreadable. Im leaning town but I’ve lurked my way to scum wins just like that as well.

In fact this quote tells you everything, you're trying to keep a town read alive on PK in case it works in your favour to keep him around but at the same time preparing yourself to bus him if needed

[CreativeMod1]

I thought you were town until you imploded out of desperation yesterday

Yeah because I thought that you were trying to get us to Miscancel on NM

[CreativeMod1]

It's a great play knowing that Hiraki scum read you and that Peta would've been suspicious if you suddenly flipped against me, Hiraki would've talked Peta down

Notice how Peta unvoted when he was going away from his computer, he was watching and could've easily unvoted as soon as someone voted

[CreativeMod1]

@Mod: Can you confirm that Porkens' plan would work? If we decide to no cancel today and scum did no kill yesterday, then would scum be forced to kill tomorrow night? What would happen if they still decided not to?

If this is the case, I'm willing to just do it in order to alleviate doubt under the condition that I am the protection and no one else.

In theory yes, if Porkens was the doc then his plan would work

Also outing the doc save wouldn't work, his plan hinges on it being a 50/50 pot luck save

He wants to try to prove himself using game mechanics, but what'll actually happen is we'll get to tomorrow, someone will die and he'll use the argument of: "What'd be the point in slowrolling the game if I'm not the doc, wouldn't it just be an annoying thing to do"

[CreativeMod1]

Tbh I'm kinda at the point of being done with this game, it's gone on so long and it's not been fun in many parts and Porkens slowrolling is just dragging this out to being more painful

Look at the night time actions, why would I kill Porkens? why would I send PK to do the killing for me when lets be real, I've been the towniest player in nearly everyones eyes and Ali would never want to protect me because I scum-read them so hard.

Like I would've 100% killed Ali a long time ago because I know how dangerous a JK is, I bet Porkens tried to kill Ali on that night and then reverted back to their soft when it didn't work out and then tried to send PK after Ali had blocked Porkens

[CreativeMod1]

oh i get what porkens is trying to say now but if anything it makes my opinion stronger

How does it make your opinion stronger?

[CreativeMod1]

Yeah, I was being a little greedy with my question

I don't think this ends with anything other than a dead Porkens but part of me wants to just go down the road and see what happens

It's frustrating on my end cos like I know that it's a waste of time and I can't be bothered with it but I know I can't argue against it cos only a scum slot would try to fight against it haha

[CreativeMod1]

Hiraki, do what you gotta do.

If you've got any doubts about Porkens being scum then you're best to No-cancel and we'll go through the night and then cancel Porkens tomorrow

[CreativeMod1]

I mean, i don't wanna slowroll more than it needs to

If you guys are wanting to no-cancel then I'll lend my vote that way, just wanna get this over and done with haha

[CreativeMod1]

Like for me there's no difference in what happens, he'll probably perk up a little bit in the next day phase and I'll have to fight that but I think his progression today says everything:

Try to find another person who could be scum to bring heat away and play on my paranoia in Peta, when that failed because Peta is 100% clear then he moved to trying this fake clear, hoping that he can get 1 more day phase out of this game and then he'll use it as part of his argument tomorrow, that failed because I had already told everyone the exact arguments that he could use tomorrow after he killed someone. And then he finally turned to me to try and find some way of calling me scummy.

Like if I was scum he could've turned straight to me and found flaws in my game but he knows I'm too townie and there's nothing he could do to convince anyone otherwise. Whilst yeah I've had bad reads, I have been the most town-read player all game. I may be bad at the game but there's no denying that I've been actively trying to scum hunt all game.

[CreativeMod1]

Hey

[CreativeMod1]

oh i get what porkens is trying to say now but if anything it makes my opinion stronger

How does it make your opinion stronger?

i don't think the lean into attempting to mech clear himself is a believable thought process and comes across more as wanting to cut off discussion i guess

i will probably hammer in a few, just want to re-check things to be sure. notable that n_m didn't crossvote, and i'm not sure if porkens is town why he doesn't chance the win

Yeah that's a good point, although also idk if N_M was too invested anyway so eh idk

[CreativeMod1]

Kidneystone's suspicion over people not elaborating on their votes seems genuine on first blush. It's interesting that he doesn't mention me despite the fact that I seemingly indicated I also had a real reason to scumread Clark.

heh

Oh, that's a good point, I didn't think to check over the pre-replacements

[CreativeMod1]

Lol, yeah but meh, I won't be sleeping for another few hours anyway.

I'm enjoying reading your reasonings for why it's Porkens and trying to learn from it, there's some things I spotted and some that I hadn't

Also, please explain Occam's Razor to me

[CreativeMod1]

Oh lol, didn't even see the hammer

Welp now we wait for Blair to come

[CreativeMod1]

Oh okay, fair enough

[CreativeMod1]

Well assuming that you're not a massive troll, I know the ending haha

I assume also that regardless of the flip here, this is game over, like there's nothing stopping the game from ending now?


I think the issue with Day 3 was Ali was dead set on Porkens being town (no idea why) and Ali was being super scummy and if Ali is scum then Porkens must be town, so I don't think it really crossed our minds (except Hiraki, Kudos to Hiraki)

[CreativeMod1]

Also shhhh....sleep? nope what is that?

[CreativeMod1]

Hmm, so because Porkens made hints towards his claim Day 2 and set it up meant that it's more likely that he was scum between he and Ali

I suppose also his hints could've also set him up for Cop if needed

[CreativeMod1]

So hello, I thought I'd get a message ready for when Porkens flips and prepare for any questions I get.

Firstly, yes I am the last scum and boy that was a rough game with lots of ups and downs. Porkens you'll be very glad to hear that I did indeed fill the Mafia PT thread with tons of thoughts and stuff as the game was going on, so feel free to read that and enjoy it. idk what other Mafia PT threads are like but I figured that I'd use it in the similar way I use a confessional in a Survivor game.

I don't think I played the best game and there's lots to learn from it but I do feel like I did really well with what I had, keep in mind that I had a partner who was non-existent for most of the game and nearly every kill I had attempted to make got blocked in some way. I also recognise that my arguments in game were really bad but a big part of that was also to keep up this noob persona I had, who really had no idea what he was doing. Also a lot of my tunnelling against Ali was to make them not want to protect me during the night (as that's what they said they were using their action for)

All of my noob town-tells were 100% fake and planned, yes I did see Ali had voted already on Day 1 when I pointed it out, I already knew that PK talking in the mafia PT wouldn't count for their prod because Blair had said so in the PT.

Night time actions were a mixed bag of bad luck and bad predictions.
Night 1: we attacked Hiraki on the basis that they were very townie and also highly viewed me as town, them dying could be used in my favour as why I'm town
Night 2: PK wanted to go straight for Ali, I said no given that we knew there was a doc in play and we assumed that they would be protecting Ali, due to our N1 rolecop and all the VT claims, the only 2 players we knew nothing about were Hiraki and Porkens, Hiraki couldn't be doc and thus I tried to kill Porkens
Night 3: After my failed plan on Night 2 I just went along with whatever PK said for this night and he submitted a kill for himself to kill Porkens (hoping that a Porkens flip would look bad on Ali), also I was worried that Ali would jail me this night after suspicions around Umlauts flip
Night 4: I knew we had to kill tonight otherwise Ali was 100% cleared, I figured that Porkens wouldn't doc Ali and thus our best way of avoiding Ali blocking the kill was to kill Ali
Night 5: Eh, this one I played badly, I kinda felt that Peta would 100% cancel me and thus I wanted to try to kill him but I also knew that Porkens would be protecting him, I figured that it was better to have a 4 player Day 6 than a dead Hiraki...I hadn't thought about Porkens idea of being mechanically proven town, if I had then I would've killed Hiraki here.

So yeah, that's a run down of my game, I figure I should probably mention the drama of this game, I was truly offended and upset, mainly by what Ali had said but also what Peta was saying to, as shown in my PT (and in private chats with Blair) I did consider replacing out due to it but I didn't want to do that because I didn't want that to be the legacy of my first game back. I did however remove myself from the queue of playing another game after this because I wanna have a real think about if I wanna actually play some Mafia games after all of that.
I apologise if the pair of them felt that I in some way pushed them towards those comments, personally I don't feel that way, yes I put pressure on them trying to make them look scummy but that's part of the game, I'm using in game reasoning to put suspicion onto you and trying to make pushes, this is massively different from making personal attacks.

Finally, I'd like to thank Blair for running the game, whilst it's been hard, I have enjoyed parts of it and I'm glad I played, also thank you for being supportive when I was feeling down about the game and putting up with my rants about it. 100% isn't your fault and I appreciate you being there. Oh and also for the dino comics, I've read through quite a few of them and love them!!!

[CreativeMod1]

Alright, just finished up reading all the fun threads

Tbh I dunno how I survived that game, I think my early game is what worked in my favour.

Thank you so much Porkens haha, I hope you're enjoying your vacation

Btw Umlaut, I legit didn't realise that I put you at C-1, if I'd known that I would've said a bit more but I panicked haha, but yeah good call on Day 1, I was trying to get that noob townslip in

[CreativeMod1]

Nah, so when that happened I remembered there being a couple of votes on me and checked the ISOs of the players I thought were already voting me rather than doing a full vote count, mainly because again...panic haha

[CreativeMod1]

Like without an active partner, I knew that the game was lost if I died

[CreativeMod1]

Oh also, lol back when we were looking at partners and who could've quick hammered, I was actually awake when NM was replaced in and was around for a bit buuuut only posted in the Mafia PT thread because I was too tired to actually play

I was searching for if there was another way of proving I was awake and around but it just wasn't happening xD haha

[CreativeMod1]

i couldnt finish this.

I feel like my inaction tipped the game irreversibly towards a town win.

Also it's all good, I hope you're okay, someone mentioned that you site-replaced out

And it was all good in the end, I used your inactivity to make it look like scum were pushing for the inactive player xD somehow it worked even after you flipped

[CreativeMod1]

Lol, I mean hey it worked haha (for the most part)

[CreativeMod1]

What, faking noob tells, that's unpossible scum could never do that

Tehehe, I just can't believe I got away with it multiple times, this was quote of the game for me:

Idk how prodding mechanics work or anything but the point was more of, wouldn't Mafia both have to agree on an action?

but...there was no action. i don't understand what you're saying. how is he clear of agreeing to something when there

wasn't

a kill?

but anyway traditionally in MS games, it just takes one mafia team member to send in the kill, there is no need for agreement

but lol, i can't even pretend to suspect you anymore, there's no way someone who is teamed with pisskop has the idea to fake that tell. those are the words of someone who has not seen the inside of a mafia PT.

"Those are the words of someone who has not seen the inside of a mafia PT." hahahhaha

Tbh, I had to play with what I had, PK had posted in the PT during the night saying that he hadn't even read the game and then he posts in game that he's been prodded and nothing else so I'm like aahhhhhh, so I took it and ran with it, I wanted to make myself look so confused about PK and also try to defend him due to the prod mechanics. Yes I realise that trying to use mechanics in my favour is a bit slimmy but being the only active mafia player who can't get a damn kill was a pain.

what unpossible is now that he dropped the ball he wont ever be trusted again

Yeah, story of my life for IRL games, there are so many stories of big game plays that nobody ever trusts me for shit. At this point I'm nearly always the first cancelled or the first night kill haha