Micro 956 | 2of4 | Dinosaur Comics™ - GAME OVER!

[Umlaut]

Wow, what kind of mod claims red for their color?

VOTE: Alisa's

Highly problematic, let's cancel em post haste.

[Umlaut]

Whee, autocorrect.

VOTE: Alisae

[Umlaut]

Have you never watched Sesame Street or did Slimey just stop making appearances at some point?

[Umlaut]

I’m happy with my vote especially due to their last post.

What's wrong with their last post?

[Umlaut]

Shhh just wait.

Seems like everyone is following this advice a bit too strictly.

[Umlaut]

ClarkBar, are you town?

[Umlaut]

Because last game you were obvtown, and this game you're not obvtown, and it makes me wonder if you're town at all.

That's probably unfair but I'm thinking it anyway.

[Umlaut]

I really have no idea why I was so town-read last game. I'll tell you this: I am a little unsure of myself here. Way more so than last game where I figured I'd ask questions and try to suss things out. I don't know how to proceed in a game like this where everyone knows each other and seem to have a more fun/relaxed approach. I do feel I'm out of my depth here a little.

But, if you're asking if I'm town, the answer is yes. Unequivocally. By that token, our last game together I had no good read on you and you were scum. This game isn't too different. Are you going to ask irrelevant questions or are you going to scum-hunt this time?

I definitely don't know everyone in this game. I have a few completed games with Hiraki, one each with you and Alisae, Nexus I know who he is, don't recognize anyone else. I think you are maybe reading more into the demeanor of the players here then there actually is. Every game has a different feel.

I guess I can put you at L−1 if you say pretty-please but I don't see a reason to do so now, so asking irrelevant questions sounds good. What's your favorite vegetable?

[Umlaut]

Why is your vote on Alisae again?

At random, obviously; but on reflection I suppose I can do better.

VOTE: CultOfAthena

Showed up on page 1 to ask a question and answer it herself, hasn't done anything else worth mentioning.

[Umlaut]

Why is your vote on Alisae again?

At random, obviously; but on reflection I suppose I can do better.

VOTE: CultOfAthena

Showed up on page 1 to ask a question and answer it herself, hasn't done anything else worth mentioning.

she also hasn't posted since

That is indeed one way to not do anything worth mentioning

[Umlaut]

Better question - why did you take it semi-seriously?

Ignored question.

Wait, was that question for me? I thought it was for Nexus.

Because last game you were obvtown, and this game you're not obvtown, and it makes me wonder if you're town at all.

That's probably unfair but I'm thinking it anyway.

Weird question.

Yeah, it was, but there was basically nothing to go on and I wanted to do something instead of just waiting for someone else to do something. This game is a lurkfest.

[Umlaut]

I took it semi-seriously because it looked like it could be serious; ClarkBar's 23 looks like something one could hang an actual read on. If it was completely unserious Nexus could just say so.

Two pages is still not a lot of content even for only 24 hours having passed.

[Umlaut]

ClarkBar's 23 looks like something one could hang an actual read on.

Clarification: not a

strong

read, just a less-than-entirely-random one

[Umlaut]

VOTE: umlaut

oh noes Alisae is a doublevoter

Can't decide if CM1 really missed that or not. Fakehammers happen every damn game now and I just habitually check the VC when I see them before posting any kind of reaction.

[Umlaut]

Oh sorry, to answer it was when he was trying to compare someones game to how they played previously when said player was a town, idk that sounds like them trying to get a read on them?

Also Cult put Umlaut at L-1 and then Alisae voted Umlaut? so urm 1) shouldn't we stop talking, like isn't that a lynch? 2) Alisae, that's kinda scummy of you to make a final vote on someone without giving them a chance to say something, like whether it's funny or not, what if they were a cop or something?

The more I read this post the more I'm convinced it's fake. If CM1 has played more than zero games before then his reaction is more pronounced than "gee, that's kinda scummy, are you sure it was a good idea to hammer like that?"

VOTE: CreativeMod1

You can't just come in here say that something is bad and then leave without doing anything more. That is the problem that Umlaut rightfully (yes, I take it back - this game is stagnating) said. If everyone does nothing, then scum will walk over everyone.

Does it not affect your read on me at all, when you initially suspect me for something I say I did mostly to get the game moving because it was stagnating, and then it turns out the game really is stagnating?

[Umlaut]

Nexus is making more sense than Sleeper in this exchange

[Umlaut]

And before you make the obvious next move here, as you don't seem to enjoy conversation, Nexus isn't dumb. He's clearly pushing on you with no reasoning. If scum were always so obvious, this game would not be a challenge.

I can't understand what you're trying to say here. It looks almost like arguing Nexus is TStbS but I don't really believe you would make an argument like that, so what

are

you trying to say about Nexus?

[Umlaut]

too scummy to be scum

[Umlaut]

(as in, that's what Hiraki's argument superficially resembles which is why I'm asking him to clarify)

[Umlaut]

Agreed with Hiraki that the ClarkBar post is good.

@Umlaut: What about 23 bothers you? Is that post solely why you asked me my alignment in 56? I believe I had a wagon going on me, if my posting gave you a scum-read, no matter how slight, why didn't you follow-up more?

I don't think I ever said anything bothers me about 23? ...Oh, I said I assumed something bothered

Nexus

about 23 because he wrote "I’m happy with my vote especially due to their last post." I asked the same question of Nexus in 36.

In 56/57 I was really overselling my suspicion of you, there was nothing about your posting that really made me think scum, just nothing that made me think town either, so I decided to poke you and see what happened. Nothing much happened (your response was fine) so I didn't really pursue it.

In retrospect the fact that I came into our last game later in Day 1 might have given me an unrealistic sense of how quickly you ought to obvtown yourself.

Also, you voted for COA, but never followed-up on that vote with any kind of questioning or anything... I assume that COA's content since that vote satisfies you in some way? If that's the case could you explain why? Or is CM1 simply more likely to be scum in your eyes? Is there anything outside of 118 that gives you scum vibes from CM1? Has 118 retroactively made other posts by CM1 more scummy to you?

Yeah, you're right, I didn't really have much of a case on CoA, or pursue one. She was just better than the completely random Alisae vote because "inactivity" is at least something, but she's not inactive any more and some of her posts are decent. I want her to explain why you're scummy because I'm not seeing it, and I don't really understand 109 at all since she hasn't said a word about me, but I just dislike the CM1 post enough that I'd rather pursue that, for pretty much the reasons you described.

Looking over the CM1 iso right now...

• 52, 53, 54, 59 are entirely fluff (59 maybe gets a pass since it's answering a question)
  
• 76 is mostly fluff
  
• 118 is the one we've just talked about
  
• 133 is very surface-level and "defending" me without really making a meaningful defense or pushing anyone else
  
• 140 is a read list, there is nothing really
  wrong
  with the reads (can't complain that they're weak because there's not a lot to go on yet), and ends with "It's looking like it's gonna be an Umlaut cancel anyway" which is a really carefree attitude to have if you think a mislynch is about to happen 72 hours into the day
  
• 143 is answering questions so it's fine, though one could hope for a bit more than "your agenda as scum would be to push away from scum"
  
• 168 is just agreeing with Nexus' point

My usual plan when dealing with people who post a lot of fluff is to just subtract it altogether and see if what's left fits a town profile. If you subtract CM1's fluff he didn't actually do anything for the first IRL day; his first real comment on the game was 118 going "oh gee Umlaut got lynched" and oh-so-tentatively suggesting that might be scummy of Alisae.

Thanks for asking me this, Clark, because it got me to actually make an effort to read CM1. Having done so I feel quite good about my vote.

[Umlaut]

like its not good at all
he's just throwing out a bunch of questions and I don't get the feeling he's actually trying to sort umlaut with any of those questions.

Like it comes across as asking questions for the sake of it

This seems like an unfalsifiable accusation you could make of pretty much any questions anyone asked, particularly when they haven't even been answered yet and so the asker can't possibly have done anything with the answers.

[Umlaut]

No, patience is not necessary here. CM1 seems to mimic a lot of Umlaut's opinions. Umlaut even mentioned this in his above post. I will admit that I'm not certain of this but I would find it more reasonable that CM1 is copying rather than sheeping. The former identifies that CM1 doesn't really know what to do in this case (which is fine) rather than sheeping is knowingly doing that. I can go more into detail about this, if you want. I don't know if that makes him scum but I am definitely passing on a D1 lynch on that slot.

Huh? Where did I say that CM1 is mimicking my opinions? The only place I even see CM1 offering real opinions is 140, and looking at that the only place you could see him mimicking me is on ClarkBar

maybe

.

[Umlaut]

You are not supposed to talk about plans to replace out in the game thread, SleeperSoul. It's in the site rules. (z3KIDNYSTONE broke this rule just by posting in the game that he was replacing out instead of messaging the mod.)

---

I found CM1's previous game: Newbie 1886

• He definitely asked a lot of questions about basic things like "why should we lynch D1"
  
• He asked "Are we still allowed to talk if there's been a hammer?" and got an answer
  
• There was a quickhammer D2, but given that he had PR information pointing to the hammerer's guilt he didn't really get a chance to react naturally to it

I guess it's possible he just forgot about how twilight works in the ensuing two years but I still think 118 is awful and screams LAMIST.

---

@ClarkBar

Do you think I'm scum or are you just keeping your RVS vote on me out of inertia?

[Umlaut]

I had a minor emergency come up this afternoon-evening and now it's 3am and I have to sleep. I'll engage with this game tomorrow.

[Umlaut]

Damn there are a lot of oldbies in this newbie setup

[Umlaut]

Is there intent on me? Haven't read carefully

[Umlaut]

Ig I wouldn’t be opposed too flipping Umlaut for gamestate information, because I think he’s being wagoned by 2 scum if he’s town and I think scum are okay with the way things are going right now.

Did you ever explain why you think this? Why would both scum be on the wagon?

[Umlaut]

Gonna be upfront here cos like I don't want people thinking I'm lurking, I'm having a bad day in terms of depression so like I'm struggling with thinking of things to say, like I have very little motivation today.

I'll try and put some thoughts out in a few hours when I'm feeling better, I'd appreciate it if nobody hammers during that time.

Yeah, I feel this. I'm trying to try in this game, but failing to actually try, if that makes sense.

[Umlaut]

Umlaut, how would you characterize the wagon that's currently on you?

Was just trying to do that actually, but I can't go into detail right this second (it's dinner time, I was going spend time reading in-depth earlier but pissed away that time on other things). Here are some top-of-my-head observations:

• Hiraki is voting me for some early-game stuff that seems weak (ignoring a question that wasn't obviously meant for me, thinking the game was slow when it actually was slow) and hasn't seemed to reconsider that at all
  
• CultOfAthena hasn't even mentioned me at all, except in passing to talk about other players
  
• Formerfish is sitting on SleeperSoul's vote; Sleeper is voting for my push on CM1, which is at least a reason I can follow even if I don't agree, but says he's following some town consensus there ("Now I see why Umlaut has so many votes")
  
• No idea why pisskop voted me except maybe what he said in 278

So it's a pretty weird wagon. Seems like everyone is sheeping everyone else.

[Umlaut]

Actually Hiraki has also criticized the CM1 push and that's where Sleeper got it from.

his first real comment on the game was 118 going "oh gee Umlaut got lynched" and oh-so-tentatively suggesting that might be scummy of Alisae.

yuck

I don't know what's supposed to be yuck about this.

[Umlaut]

Clark, since you're around can you try and explain the Formerfish wagon for me? All I've seen is "Sleeper is sheeping Hiraki" which isn't a big sell for me in itself; there's nothing wrong with voting based on someone else's case if you think it's a good one. (I don't really think it's a good one but apparently at least some town players do so I can't really single him out just for that part.)

[Umlaut]

CultOfAthena hasn't even mentioned me at all, except in passing to talk about other players

Hiraki's 89 is alright. The analysis of Umlaut's one post is probably the most poignant part. Also, I never thought I'd see the day where I'm the one recommending against being snarky and antisocial, but it feels like people are being pretty short with the newbies in the playerlist.

fair that it hasn't been awhile but his last post was in the 150's and he just got prodded

This is

in passing to talk about other players

, i.e. you: she's saying your post is good. But I guess it is about me if she's not just liking you for the analysis but actually agreeing with it.

I don't know what's supposed to be yuck about this.

very poor characterization

Looking at the CM1 post again maybe "tentative" is the wrong word (he does say "that's kinda scummy of you" which may not be a strong statement but is at least a definite one) but it strikes me as absurd and phony-sounding. The town reaction I'd be looking for from someone who believed the hammer is more along the lines of "Alisae wtf???" than an explanation of why hammering with zero warning halfway into the day is "kinda scummy."

[Umlaut]

Maybe my expectations of newbies are just higher than yours. When I joined MS I hadn't played a game of Mafia of any sort for at least ten years, and that was on a forum with wildly different standards of play, and I picked up things like "quickhammering is massively scummy" pretty much immediately and if I had questions that the wiki could answer I asked the wiki instead of other players. Most other newbs I've seen have managed to jump right in in exactly the same way.

[Umlaut]

(The wiki thing is sort of a tangent not related to this game in particular, since I don't think CM1 has asked any wiki-searchable questions)

[Umlaut]

Thought about trying and push a last-minute wagon on COA based on my master scumhunting technique, "sort by post count," but I have a feeling she's flaked which, if so, makes the low activity NAI

[Umlaut]

Okay, I need to get some real reads since time is short and I'm on the chopping block.

I went back and reread z3K because it's easier than trying to get a read on pisskop. Turns out his one substantive post, 81, is actually really good (I may be a

little

biased because it gives a townlean on me but you can read it for yourself and agree or not). So pisskop can be town for now.

Reading Nexus: The SleeperSoul vote is

okay

. 86 is not exactly a game-changing insight but the object of the game is to be correct, not to be clever, so that's not a bad thing. But most of the posts aside from that are either fluff or reiterating that one point.

@Nexus

can you say what changed between 90 and 117? You said the game had progressed but can you point to anything that happened in that interval to make you question yourself on Sleeper?

[Umlaut]

Why is Formerfish replaced but CultOfAthena isn't?

[Umlaut]

Oh, Alisae already said that.

Hi, peta. How do you feel about getting canceled?

[Umlaut]

It's a

fait accompli

. Yes it's supposed to be done differently but there's no use arguing the point now.

[Umlaut]

OMG AMISHED TELL

(Actually I think pushing against my wagon despite being the second biggest wagon is kind of towny)

Can you say what's bad about ClarkBar? I've been pretty meh on his slot overall but I haven't really seen anything that says scum and I recall liking a few of his posts.

[Umlaut]

p-edit: you are definitely right that it is a snap townread that doesn't feel like it's earned and it's a common thin for scum to handout townreads for bad reasons

last i saw clarkbar's vote on my slot is because..sleepersoul sheeped hiraki? and formerfish entered in a hostile way? that's not a town thought process

Is it weird that reading things I already knew, but with question marks after them, is actually a fairly effective persuasion tactic?

VOTE: ClarkBar

[Umlaut]

Can you say what's bad about ClarkBar? I've been pretty meh on his slot overall but I haven't really seen anything that says scum and I recall liking a few of his posts.

i dunno how you were in the newbie game with him where he was very obviously trying to scumhunt and here and don't see the difference. go back and look at his ISO. the line about "I don't know how to proceed in a game like this where everyone knows each other and seem to have a more fun/relaxed approach. I do feel I'm out of my depth here a little." is a relatable lil' emotional appeal but it takes me back to my rookie epicmafia days where i used that line on a table full of vets and it got me a pass as scum. it fels like there's a real lack of

try

there, his only two real suspicions have been on major wagons, he's got a lot of filler, he's not really questioning and evaluating people.

I mean I was scum in that game so all my reads were fake, but I agree he looked TOWN that game and was definitely actively gamesolving. Honestly though "his suspicions have all been on major wagons" is kind of a weak point because sometimes you just find the same things scummy that a bunch of other players do. Also because he was the only one to join me in my suspicion of CM1. I'm more interested in his read on you not really making a lot of sense.

[Umlaut]

also, creativemod1 needs to get off his alisae vote, i don't agree with the case and it's not going to happen

Coaching much?

This isn't your first newbie game so you're aware that scum have daytalk. This can't be something you actually believe is happening.

[Umlaut]

Uh, why did I think this was a newbie game for a second

But scum do have daytalk! I think!

[Umlaut]

Yes, they do.

[Umlaut]

In response to CM1's reads: I strongly disagree that I'm helpful

[Umlaut]

I don't blame you for survival-voting me here but this attempt to act like you actually believe I'm scum all of a sudden is not making me feel better about you.

[Umlaut]

o no i think clarkbar might actually be scum.

I know a great way to find out for sure!

[Umlaut]

I don't blame you for survival-voting me here but this attempt to act like you actually believe I'm scum all of a sudden is not making me feel better about you.

Survival voting? I'm at E-2, with no quality case backing it. I don't see a hammer for miles.

If my posts up to now haven't been clear enough than ask why. And I'm not looking for your endorsement or your town-read. Was that last bit meant as a threat?

The only thing I can threaten to do is vote you and I'm already doing that, so obviously not. The last bit is meant to say exactly what it seems to say, that your sudden scumread on the largest wagon as soon as you are under fire looks scummy.

[Umlaut]

Reading Nexus: The SleeperSoul vote is

okay

. 86 is not exactly a game-changing insight but the object of the game is to be correct, not to be clever, so that's not a bad thing. But most of the posts aside from that are either fluff or reiterating that one point.

@Nexus

can you say what changed between 90 and 117? You said the game had progressed but can you point to anything that happened in that interval to make you question yourself on Sleeper?

idk it was a couple of days ago and ive had a lot to deal with.

jk i'll have a proper answer later i'm just going to do my job first

I would still like you respond to my question today.

[Umlaut]

In general when I ask questions I like it when people respond to them

pedit

thanks

[Umlaut]

I used to TA actually, and the wall of silence when I asked a question was not even the worst part of that experience

Are you and town two separate entities?

Nexus thinks so.

Good answer.

Bad question imo.

You may have your opinion and I'll have my reads.

I guess Hiraki liked it too but I really don't get what's so good an answer about 93, this whole exchange looks NAI to me and I can't see anything in it that would affect my read on either slot.

[Umlaut]

No death, hunh.

Kind of busy until Monday, probably don't need an official V/LA. Will say I'm not too psyched about peta starting the ClarkBar wagon, jumping off, and calling it town right before the flip, and would like an explanation of what exactly he saw to make him change his mind like that.

[Umlaut]

guys I think Peta is town if he was scum he doesn't get off the wagon randomly, it makes no sense.

It makes a lot of sense from a "this is what I imagine town would do" perspective. In my experience Day 1 VT claims that come late in the day tend to be believed because "scum would claim a PR" (even though I don't know if it's actually true that scum would necessarily claim a PR). Since the lynch went through anyway it's a good play if he gets townread for it.

[Umlaut]

Like at the very least with your unvote you could've said something like you think Clark is town

THIS IS WHAT AN UNVOTE SIGNIFIES IN THAT SITUATION
HELLO??????????

I mean... not entirely.

When someone is about to be cancelled, an unvote can easily just mean "I don't want a hammer right this second" and not "I actually think this person is town," and it's on the unvoter to explain which it is.

[Umlaut]

Prodge
Kids wore me out this weekend
I'll play tomorrow

[Umlaut]

CM1 looks town enough today for me that I'm willing to forget the stuff that pinged me day 1, or at least stuff it down inside to re-emerge as

lylo

calo(?) paranoia.

VOTE: petapan
C-1

Commenting on the current exchange, I was going to say petapan's unvote is a lot 'safer' for scum if the secondary wagon was town as well, and try to form a read on someone that way. But it turns out I was the secondary wagon so this is useless to me; maybe it's useful to someone else but I don't necessarily expect you to see me say "look I'm town" and believe me. It does at least tell me there's no reason to think petapan's unvote was in any way risky if he was scum.

[Umlaut]

ugh why can't I focus on mafia the past few days

catching up

again

[Umlaut]

So... petapan played the "I just might have a PR but you'll have to intent me to find out for sure" game and then when CM1 had already unvoted he went ahead and claimed VT anyway? In fact he pretty much slipped it and then admitted it when the slip was called out.

If petapan is scum faking that slip then color me impressed. More likely it's genuine.

UNVOTE: petapan

Okay, now I need to get some new reads because I was pretty confident in that scumread and didn't bother having another.

[Umlaut]

So... petapan played the "I just might have a PR but you'll have to intent me to find out for sure" game and then when CM1 had already unvoted he went ahead and claimed VT anyway? In fact he pretty much slipped it and then admitted it when the slip was called out.

If petapan is scum faking that slip then color me impressed. More likely it's genuine.

UNVOTE: petapan

Okay, now I need to get some new reads because I was pretty confident in that scumread and didn't bother having another.

what

I think you're town now and I don't know who's scum

Alright funs over

CLAIMING JAILKEEPER I BLOCKED NEXUS

Solve is Nexus/PK

I'll explain how I got here but I feel really good about this

Hunh. I'm going to assume this is true barring a cc. It does explain why you would be pressing Peta for a hard claim.

Why are you sure Nexus was the shooter and not the shootee?

[Umlaut]

I didn't really value anyone's life in the village other then Nexus so thats kinda why I protected him?

Why are you sure Nexus was the shooter and not the shootee?

because them getting shot makes no fucking sense? Especially if CoA is town because CoA is actually really fucking good at the game and they scumread Nexus so their read holds some weight here.

Like idunno, I don't see why anyone shoots fucking Nexus.

Why would you be "protecting" Nexus if you didn't think anyone would ever shoot him?

Who do you think scum would shoot?

[Umlaut]

Umlaut any other concerns?
I see u posting elsewhere on site

I'm overgamed and undermotivated at the moment and splitting my attention is tricky. Not saying "no more concerns" right now but none I can think of right this second.

[Umlaut]

Honestly I have no trouble believing Nexus scum anyway so
VOTE: Nexus

[Umlaut]

(I think that's only the second vote, someone can say if I'm wrong)

[Umlaut]

Actually I don’t have time today for back and forth. My point is this: your post seems to assume nexus will flip town. Your use of the word “risk” makes me think you are explaining to us why you are willing to vote nexus rather than excited to.
You say “since she didn’t CC I’m ok with it” and then still call it a risk.

Also, if claiming VT is suboptimal for scum, how does that make you think she’s scum? Is she scum playing suboptimally or is she more likely town?

So it seems like you don’t think she is scum but the lack of CC is somehow damning enough evidence to vote her (even though it’s counter evidence). And you don’t address at all her reaction at all for the towncase.

I kind of agree with this actually
UNVOTE: Nexus
Need to think more about who is more intrinsically scummy between Hiraki/Nexus here

[Umlaut]

I think CM1 was hammer?

[Umlaut]

Wait, no, Porkens changed their vote

[Umlaut]

Wait, no, Porkens changed their vote

also it's 5 to cancel, not 4

Oh yeah, forgot how no-kill affects the votes.

VOTE: Nexus
I'm not absolutely sure this is right but at the end of the day I'm always voting him over anyone else.

[Umlaut]

Well that’s something. Won’t setup spec openly but I have a decent idea of what happened here.

[Umlaut]

Why would you out yourself now

[Umlaut]

Your protection can’t possibly have been relevant to the night result unless Alisae was lying

pedit

okay, I suppose that is useful information.

<obvious>Anyone with a counterclaim should be making it in their next post</obvious>

[Umlaut]

Vote Count 1.13 (FINAL)

ClarkBar

(5) - Umlaut, CreativeMod1,

Porkens

,

Nexus

,

Alisae

(CANCEL)

Umlaut

(2) - pisskop,

ClarkBar

Not Voting

(2): Hiraki, petapan

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to cancel.

Vote Count 2.05 (FINAL)

Nexus

(5) - Hiraki,

Alisae

, CreativeMod1, Umlaut, pisskop

(CANCEL)

Umlaut

(1) -

Nexus

Alisae

(1) -

Porkens

Not Voting

(1): petapan

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to cancel.

Either one of the claims is false, or Clark was an all-town miscancel, or CM1 is scum

(or I'm scum)

.

[Umlaut]

i just protected you because i thought you were the most valuable townie to keep alive

why would you assume you wouldn't be the one shot

This is a really silly question. Like if Alisae thinks e’s getting shot how should that influence eir night action?

[Umlaut]

^ 2nd

[Umlaut]

Alisae no killed.

Do you think the wifom benefit of no-killing outweighs the obvious mechanical benefit of being in c-lo? Because I don’t.

[Umlaut]

Looks like everyone but pisskop has posted today?

Wanted to be sure we don't have another PR claim before deciding once and for all whether to believe both of the ones we have

[Umlaut]

Kind of leaning toward Alisae scum anyway tbh, but if not then like I said it probably has to be CM1. I think CM1 towned up a lot yesterday whereas I don't remember anything that has made me say "wow Alisae sure is town"

[Umlaut]

but if not then like I said it probably has to be CM1.

what?

Vote Count 1.13 (FINAL)

ClarkBar

(5) - Umlaut, CreativeMod1,

Porkens

,

Nexus

,

Alisae

(CANCEL)

Umlaut

(2) - pisskop,

ClarkBar

Not Voting

(2): Hiraki, petapan

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to cancel.

Vote Count 2.05 (FINAL)

Nexus

(5) - Hiraki,

Alisae

, CreativeMod1, Umlaut, pisskop

(CANCEL)

Umlaut

(1) -

Nexus

Alisae

(1) -

Porkens

Not Voting

(1): petapan

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to cancel.

Either one of the claims is false, or Clark was an all-town miscancel, or CM1 is scum

(or I'm scum)

.

I said this earlier. All-town miscancels happen but I wouldn't want to put money on that option.

[Umlaut]

I mean I guess you could take that as an argument for canceling me if you think CM1 is town too, but I'm less enthused about that choice.

[Umlaut]

No, that's fair

[Umlaut]

I saw that soft too but I forgot about it.

I don't think that's too paranoid.

VOTE: petapan

[Umlaut]

then why unvote me yesterday when i claimed vt? the soft was discussed on the same page.

Honestly I missed it or forgot about it, one of those. The jailkeeper claim came shortly after that and I never really thought about it again until it was brought up today.

here's the question: do you think i am stupid? do you think i did not see that softclaim? do you think i glossed over it as scum, got run up to L-1, and then decided to claim VT in some sort of double-reverse-WIFOM maneuver? the likely result would have been my cancellation, and a likely loss as scum given the blocked kill on night 1. i'm a better player than that. no, i'd just claim a PR and point back to the soft as evidence. if i got counterclaimed, at least i'd have outed a role there rather than leaving my partner totally in the dark.

I've never played with you before so I have no idea if you're stupid. But otherwise I guess it's probably true VT claims usually get lynched, and that would be the obvious thing to do (plus your predecessor probably would have pointed out the soft in the PT and it would be there for you to see even if you missed it)

UNVOTE: petapan

I have no idea what's going on this game and frankly would be relieved if you all lynched me, but I am town so it's not optimal. Looks like no one has counterclaimed, and if Alisae were scum she would have had a 50% chance of being immediately counterclaimed (and an even higher chance of getting eventually PoE'd by too many PR claims) which would make the claim a fairly risky move when Alisae was not in immediate danger or anything like that, so I'm inclined to believe the claim even if it's pretty much the only thing I'm TRing Alisae for.

What's VC now?

[Umlaut]

if Alisae were scum

e

would have had a 50% chance of being immediately counterclaimed

ebwop for pronouns

[Umlaut]

Wow, good timing!

[Umlaut]

VOTE: Hiraki

Can I interest anyone in this? He has fewer posts than the mod, he pounced on me for easy reasons d1 (now that I'm thinking of it this is really weird because I know that Hiraki knows and fears my scum game so he shouldn't expect to catch me on such crappy tells) and then contradicted himself in 179 and 338 as to whether seeing that the reasons were crappy mattered to his read, and his takes on both petapan and Nexus were weird d1, he's back on the easy wagon of me today, his hard defense of CM1 has been disproportional to how towny CM1 could ever have been said to be and seems to be basically "he's a newb so I expect him to be a total dumbass" which is even lazier than my reads, and in general I've never looked at anything he's said or done and said "oh, that's towny."

[Umlaut]

his takes on both petapan and Nexus were weird

d2

ebwop again

[Umlaut]

perhaps it's just me but i'm worried that i'm thinking clarkbar is scum due to tone which never ever has very good results and that is the reason why i hesitate to fully SR him because otherwise, it's just "looks" that are bad rather than anything that's actually bad

Also now that I've made my vote, through a somewhat confbiased lens this looks like "I'm going to criticize the ClarkBar cancel but not hard enough to stop it from happening"

[Umlaut]

Peta, if you agree with me that Hiraki is likely scum then why are you engaging in the self-fulfilling process of not voting him because he's impossible to cancel? We have a lot of day ahead of us, you may as well actually choose a starting position you like before you start compromising.

[Umlaut]

I really don't see why Nexus is any more implausible a nightkill than Hiraki. And the other day didn't someone explicitly say "no one would shoot Nexus, except maybe Hiraki"

(oh, but then Hiraki said he

wouldn't

have shot Nexus so I guess that's settled)

[Umlaut]

@petapan

Do you think ClarkBar was an all-town wagon?

[Umlaut]

Actually I guess that question is for everyone but for some reason I want their opinion in particular.

[Umlaut]

I know you don't, you think Alisae is scum (and I guess you think I'm scum too). I'm more interested in the opinions of people who believe the JK claim.

[Umlaut]

Porkens, do you have reason to think Alisae is the sort of scum player who, in a place and time where she's not under any particular suspicion, claims a specific PR in a semi-open where there's a 2/3 chance she will end up in a 1v1 with god-knows-whom as a result, if not today then eventually?

Do you think scum are desperate enough to want to play those odds?

[Umlaut]

he pounced on me for easy reasons d1 (now that I'm thinking of it this is really weird because I know that Hiraki knows and fears my scum game so he shouldn't expect to catch me on such crappy tells)

1) pouncing on you for "easy reasons" does not make them "bad reasons"
2) if they were "easy reasons", then you'd be dead already
3) the parentheses doesn't make much sense and actually points to me being town here and you slipping - what is the scenario where I am scum and I push on you for "weak tells"? paranoia for your

town

game? i'd like to submit this part as evidence for a potential slip but i understand that you have to twist it a little so i'm not gonna push it hard

The point is you as town don't expect me as scum to be lynchbait, so the things you're pushing me on are not actually things you really expect to find in my scum game.

[Umlaut]

his hard defense of CM1 has been disproportional to how towny CM1 could ever have been said to be and seems to be basically "he's a newb so I expect him to be a total dumbass" which is even lazier than my reads

i think CM1 is a very intelligent player - please don't ever fucking try and make me look like i'm belittling someone's intelligence. i think i've said that in multiple places this game, thanks

Explain again why CM1 is town?

[Umlaut]

It's not snide and it's not mockery, that's a really weak gotcha even if gotchas were a good argument in the first place.

[Umlaut]

ah, you wanted to answer for him now too?

You're interpreting everything I write in the most suspicious possible light. Why?

[Umlaut]

I remembered I had some reason to townread pisskop's predecessor so I went to remind myself what it was, and it was just z3K's 81 which I still think was pretty good but which isn't much to hang a townread on this far into the game

[Umlaut]

I think eneryone has expressed a willingness to kill piss

Hmm....if nobody is trying to defend him, then either his partner is happy for the bus or he's not scum

I feel like it's more likely a bus because if he's scum then he's dead weight, like he's not doing a lot

I get what you're saying but like how would you defend piss even if you wanted to? There's just nothing there, all you could do is push someone else and say "I think they're scummier" So I don't think I'd see a hard defense even if scum weren't busing, just some sort of "someone else would be a better choice" push.

Which, come to think of it, is actually where I stand since I think Hiraki would be a better choice rn. Though I have to concede to Peta that it doesn't seem to be happening even though his whole response to catching some suspicion screams scum hypersensitivity to me.

[Umlaut]

VOTE: pisskop

Deadline is getting close and it doesn't look like I'm getting Hiraki. Let's test Peta's theory that everyone agrees on this.

[Umlaut]

i think alisae is sick of talking to you which is not really alignment indicative. it is notable that some people seem to have made up their minds going into today not to evaluate the claim at all. whether that is because people are shutting their brains off or because they feel a preconceived idea that they ought to townread alidae and so have to stick by that notion, i cannot say.

Who are "some people," peta? Presumably not you or CM1 or Porkens. I evaluated it too, I explicitly said I believe it because it makes no sense as a scum play vs. just letting you probably get canceled (except possibly in the Alisae-petapan universe). Do you just mean Hiraki and/or pisskop?

[Umlaut]

{Hiraki, CM1} ping for anyone?

VOTE: CreativeMod1

[Umlaut]

The other thing is that we were gonna be looking at a load of wagons and stuff from early game but nobody seemed to really respond about that. But Pisskop wasn't really involved in much of them, I think we should be looking at them. I don't believe we had all-town votes on Nexus/Clarkbar and I don't think it was all-town wagons on Umlaut and Peta

Can you clarify why you don't think my wagon or Peta's could be all-town?

[Umlaut]

Lol okay, all aboard the CM1 wagon haha

Umlaut, interesting that you just jump on without really saying much, also your reason that you think it's me/Hiraki is crazy, why would I be sticking my neck out for Pisskop if I'm scum and Pisskop is town?

Voting someone while saying "I hate that this wagon is going to hit town but let's get it over with" is not really sticking your neck out.

[Umlaut]

or I guess it could be that since we're all definitely focusing on your neck now, but it's sure not trying to keep them off the chopping block.

[Umlaut]

It seems like you wrote 1731 from the perspective that you think both Peta and I are town, and now in 1736 are saying you think at least one of us is scum.

[Umlaut]

But surely as a scum, if you see a wagon starting to form on a town, it's better to jump onto the wagon and put more pressure on said player. Like you'd surely want to push for a claim, speaking of which, it's interesting that you really held back on claiming. Like surely as a VT there's not as much of a risk to a claim (Nexus and Peta seemed to be quite chill to do it) Why didn't you claim at all when you were at such high votes?

If I had ever seen intent to hammer I would have claimed. I didn't (there was intent at some point but I was back at L-2 by the time I saw it), so I didn't. Why should I? Who does it benefit for me to spew "I'm VT" before it's necessary? Not town, definitely.

[Umlaut]

Btw I'm at C-1

Funny how Umlaut didn't put that warning in when he voted

I thought Peta was the only vote on you, let me go back and see.

[Umlaut]

Here it is

VOTE: cm1

a million pages ago.

@mod vc plz[/v]

[Umlaut]

@mod vc plz[/v]

Quoting this fail for posterity to save you all the trouble

[Umlaut]

I have no idea, there hasn't been a VC in forever.

Incidentally, Maxwell is my actual surname so if anyone should be using that song when they hammer it's me.

[Umlaut]

Yep
Hiraki and pk never unvoted umlaut

Sweet

Enjoy losing the game

[Umlaut]

LITERALLY
NO ONE WANTS TO VOTE UMLAUT
ITS FUCKING CRAZY

???

You knew I had two votes on me and said this?

[Umlaut]

{Hiraki, CM1} is my solve, but may want to swap out pisskop for one of those. I'd say "use your best judgment" but your best judgment hasn't done great so far so

[Umlaut]

I literally have no townreads.

I kind of have Peta as one now.

For Alisae, I believe the claim based on the circumstances under which it was made, which is literally the only thing making em town.

[Umlaut]

Looking forward to coming back in postgame and quoting everyone who told me my day 1 CM1 scumread was stupid

[Umlaut]

Which makes it a perfect claim for scum IMO

It's perfect

if you aren't countered.

If you are, it's just suicidal. Alisae was not in the kind of danger that would lead em to make a Hail Mary play like that.

[Umlaut]

Ali scum would know there was a doctor, fished for the soft from peta, and probably had a role cop result on one more, seriously improving the information e would have had making the claim less risky.

Well, fine. I've told you what I think, you'll know I'm town tomorrow, do what you all will with that information.

[Umlaut]

I feel used...

What you need to feel is rope

[Umlaut]

What you need to feel is rope

Er, the metaphorical rope of cancellation, of course

[Umlaut]

WOW WHO COULD HAVE PREDICTED CM1 WAS SCUM

[Umlaut]

I don't know if the adorable tot (formerly the adorable worm) is poking fun at me...

Not at all. I should have stayed the course on CM1 from the beginning and instead I helped cancel the only other person who found them seriously suspect.

[Umlaut]

Hunh, I assumed you did know that since you had enough knowledge of the VC to know I had put you at L-1.

[Umlaut]

What, faking noob tells, that's unpossible scum could never do that