Micro 1003: Divide and Conquer - Game Over!

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

let's go for the day 1 auto-win

VOTE: No Face

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Okay, so me and ydra are town so there’s scum in (pooky, norwee, no face, vanders)

Probably not vanders

Probably not norwee?

P sure our scum is pooky or no face

this is some big brain logic

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

IN MENA I TRUST

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I like Mena a LOT! <3
Catching scum in B would give us 5 conf!town. >:3

norwee if we hit scum in B we just win lol

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Pooky tell me that I’m wrong that it u were scum and skitter was town that you wouldn’t have a neighbourhood with her

I'd obviously have neighborized her if I was scum

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

this feels like coalition Mena going for the spicy d1 win i love it

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

And I wouldn’t have neighbouriser you if I were scum

wait why

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

if I was scum I would definitely do skitter/mena with me in the 3 p hood because I am SHAMELESS

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Not bc of that! Bc I wouldn’t want to have to try and misyeet town you

awwwwwwwwwwww <3

im melting

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

im tired of all of this killing. it is only GOOD VIBES and FRIENDSHIP

Ydrasse locktown'd for good vibes

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

pogtop

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Imagine if the game i finally rolled scum with skitter we had to be in different neighbourhoods lol

would you put her in your hood if you rolled scum and she was town?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

you got my back dude

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

imagine if scum put me in the 3p hood with skitter.

like 99% of the posts there would be me trying to convince her I'm town/shamelessly flirting and she trying to kill me >.>

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i am glad that did not happen lololol

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

yea she will kill you by feeding you razor blades slowly :3

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

he's hectic

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

yea she will kill you by feeding you razor blades slowly :3

That sounds really painful ^^

nah it is very nice actually

she is the sweetest

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I can cry like a baby and still get elimmed :3

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

WOW

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

guys

we r killing in the 6p hood today

because if we hit the scum in the 3p hood, the scum shoot one of the players in the 3p hood, and tomm we r back to trying to find the scum in the 6p hood.

but if we hit the scum in the 6p hood, the game is over and we win.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

killing the scum in the 3p hood doesn't actually get us closer to winning, we still have to find their partner even if we nail the scum, but if we find their partner the game is over.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

we should actually have the elim be decided by the 3p hood onto the 6p hood

because the scum in the 3p hood can't bus.

because if they bus the game is over

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i dont see how flipping the scum in the 3p gets us closer,

we r just back here again with needing to find the scum in the 6p to win

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Hmm, I see what you're saying, but I'd rather give town more control over the elim and have a stronger chance to hit scum right away

yea but we get valuable info in case we miss that we can go back on and use to nail the 3p hood scum in case we dont hit the 6p hood scum on the first try

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

yea but we would have the info about how the 3p voted so more info.

and we also get to take a shot at auto-win on d1

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

true but r u going to take a 1 in 5 shot rather than a 1 in 2 shot at that point?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

like cmon its a day 1 win

how can you not be excited about that!?!?!

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

it only means we r on the right track mena

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

nah you tricked yourself into arguing for that

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

our 6p hood is going to kick your 3p hood's butts

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

: D

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

we should actually have the elim be decided by the 3p hood onto the 6p hood

because the scum in the 3p hood can't bus.

because if they bus the game is over

I'm down to make this step 1, but we need to discuss afterwards.

Agreed that we're 100% killing in the big group today though.

yea we'll "discuss" it

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

if we kill the 6p scum d1 we win the game on the spot

if we kill the 3p scum d1 we do not win the game on the spot, we still have to go find the 6p scum.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

also the 6p scum can bus the 3p scum for towncred, the opposite is not true, we want as many restrictions on the scum team as possible

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

but we're guaranteed at least a scum by flipping thru 3p, no?

going for 6p today means we *might* get a win today but otherwise we end up in a similar space tomorrow with a large hood and an unresolved 3p that if i'm counting right we won't be able to flip through, which by definition means mitigating the chances of netting one scum, if i'm counting this right

it kinda reminds me of coalition of whether we ought to be trying to win (getting the coalition day1) or whether we ought to try to mitigate the losses if we don't get the coalition day1 by getting a coalition that will at least be easier to sort through up failing, as those things aren't always necessarily the same thing.

but i think it's usually better here to net the guaranteed scum and then try to find the other scum in the 6p because while it's not as ~flashy~ it'll help our overall chances of winning

if we go thru the small pool we have

(1/3) We hit scum right away - we are playing 1-6 Mountainous with 1 IC rest of the way. (50% WR)

(1/3) We hit scum on 2nd try - we are playing 1-4 Mountainous rest of the way. (40% WR)

(1/3) We hit scum on last try - we are playing 1-2 Endgame (33% WR)

Overall WR -> 41.1%

if we go thru the big pool we have:

(1/6) we hit scum on first try -> game over

(1/4) we hit scum on second try -> we have 2 shots to elim 1 scum in three people (2/3) victory

We miss both times -> we have a (1/2) shot of hitting scum, then a (1/3) endgame if we hit correctly.

Overall WR -> 50%

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Idk if I’d rather be in a pool with pooky > one of you but I get the general sentiment you’re going with

*swooons*

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

skitter just townread me this game to make up for that normal :3

I tr ydrasse to make up for being mean to her in the normal >.>

do not abuse plox

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I was just sad you didn't help me yeet Farkran

if you had given me your vote I would've put you on my locktown ride or die squad

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I think it’s just not that meaningful bc I think a decent number of people here would, if they were scum, not want us in the same hood if we’re both town

I think I'm the only person in this PL who would want to be in a 3P hood with you and skitter and enjoy it.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

no face is Hectic

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Do you actually believe I am scum? Your heart doesn't feel like it's in it :3

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

*does a handstand*

how about now? :3

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

wow another stolen pagetop

savage

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I think scum!you would help No Face/Y Face push me out and set up to go after No Face d2 rather than being ambivalent,

you're also on the townside of your posting spectrum

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

You feel townie but if you were to use some of that really bad logic that annoyed me to no end in SS3 you would be even more townie <3

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

No @norwee

PEdit: pooky shut up my reads were significantly better than rand in that game

they were really good!

but you were

obviously

town with that insanely bad push on me <3

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

it made an impression :3

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

that'd mean Bingle threw the less familiar player in the Big Pool and hoped he could glide through on wifom and get me/no face to fight and get elimmed?

Seems like a pretty gutsy play from Bingle

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

No Face trying to make Pooky/Bingle scumteam a thing when Bingle!Scum autoloses if Pooky!scum flips is kind of cute ngl :3

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i think infinity being this self-obssessed with being tr'd is +town because it doesn't really matter since we're going to elim in the 6 pool anyway

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I am decidedly not a fan of pooky defending me on the basis of 513 given that he had the front row though.

I don't understand the front-row comment,

and I'm also not defending you, I just doubt Vanderscamp is scum with you and you throw him into the big pond and then trying to get me and no face to fight it out by using the player quality in the small pool to POE the big pool?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Wait why can’t vanders be scum with bingle?

bingle knows the mech and wouldnt throw vander into the more important scum slot

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

No Face trying to make Pooky/Bingle scumteam a thing when Bingle!Scum autoloses if Pooky!scum flips is kind of cute ngl :3

No Face said that before Bingle was suspicious of Pooky's words or voted for him, No Face isn't a time traveler...

This is very strange Pooky

This isn't true No Face

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Well I guess if you never read bingle's posts because he's your partner that would explain things :3

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I'm going to sleep

night infinity! we shall continue our bickering on the morrow

Pooky.

ok interesting take, why?

FMPOV: 50% of the time you are scum. You know that scum in the small pool cannot be the endgame scum, therefore your partner is likely high tier. I would wager a very significant portion of the time, Infinity's team would also be aware of this restriction. That implies that the scum in the other pool is someone who can be trusted to pull a game by themselves. Of the names I recognize, Pooky and Mena best fit that bill with an outside chance of HecticAlt. Mena/You doesn't look S/S. Pooky and you have a disproportionate likelihood of being grouped if unaligned.

All of that is circumstantial evidence that points to Pooky having a higher likelihood of being scum than anyone else. Also, if I flip PookyTown, you become significantly more likely to be town imo, which is helpful for solving the you/infinity 1v1 later.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Face thinks Bingle is trying to javelin throw game by killing his partner on d1? ; )

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

No, Pooky was though. The tinfoil was that Nor's scumpartner could have shared the links with him. It's a pretty out there theory, and I liked Nor's casual dismissal of it though.

viewtopic.php?f=84&t=85019
viewtopic.php?f=84&t=84842

for reference.

uh I can't be norwee's scum partner from your POV because we're in the same hood

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

also what am i supposed to know from that game?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I don't even know what information was shared Bingle lol

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I see, I shall update your personality profile accordingly then :3

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

lol I'm not mafia with any1 no face,

I'm just wondering how long you can keep up this farce where you pretend me/bingle are aligned :3

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I've never seen town you try to kill me right away :3

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

You're also not letting new information affect your decision but have instead decided to go with the "bingle is trying to javelin-throw lose the game immediately on d1" interpretation of events...

that seems like somebody who has an agenda to flip a slot rather than someone who is looking for the baddie

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I'm not sure I agree, I think trying to just be friendly with people is an approach scum!pooky could take. Tbh no face has been townier so I'm ok with voting pooky once we get a VC.

I have somewhat of a soul read on norwee and I don't think he ever flips scum here

I am friendly as both alignments :3

also we're just missing skitter's vote and we'll have unanimous agreement from the 3pool that I should die first

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I am nicer in a nicer player pool and meaner in a meaner player pool :>

I am like a mirror ^_^

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

You're also not letting new information affect your decision but have instead decided to go with the "bingle is trying to javelin-throw lose the game immediately on d1" interpretation of events...

No I'm not saying that at all D:

No Face isn't saying the Bingle and Pooky are a team read because of interactions

It just so happens that Pooky is my lowest read in the group of 6 and Bingle is my lowest read in the group of 3

yes I know this is what you will have to go with to get the people who susp bingle to vote me because otherwise they wouldn't be able to fit bingle scum into a pooky scum world

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

well you need miselims to win the game,

that's how it works?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Except you still were mean to scum in ss3, don't remember how long it took you to get there though.

Dunn was mean to me first >.>

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I could never be mean to my soul mason it would be like being mean to myself :O

also that one time I was mean to him he died and was town and I never got over it :<

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

have you caught him as scum yet?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

actually re-reading that I think you haven't? which means you really can't say you can differentiate between the two since you don't actually have a track record for catching him when he's the red alignment?

I don't think he would be able to get nomm'd for DC if he was unable to replicate his town mindset to fit his scum play.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

the goal of any scum player is to drive the agenda and replicate their town play into their scum game so that a player reading them can follow along to the conclusions they reach -> that's how a scum gets mis-elims in the first place.

You can tell this is what he is doing right now with his push on me. It's not alignment sorting - it's push to kill.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

So if pooky isn't scum it's mena? Or mayybe vander

pls no

if you guys actually flip me pls get no face next

dont make me die in vain >.>

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

the essence of his push on me isn't "I scumread Pooky"

it's I town-read everyone else for ___, ____, ____, and _____

It leaves one person out of the equation, notably that's himself.

It's an effective strategy for pushing mis-elims on d1 because you create a coalition/support by handing out townreads to get people to help you, and you create a mutual target for everyone to go after.

It's also incredibly difficult for me to defend against because he's not actually scum-reading me for anything, so there's nothing for me to refute

then tomm after I'm flipped town he will "go back" to his townreads and "think" about where he went wrong.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i dunno, i considered that, but i think especially with the gimmick there would be disconnects , albeit small ones

idk, i just feel like i really Get how he works through things and i don't know how naturally he's able to replicate it even if he is a good scum player? it's hard to explain like, how he works through things but i just Feel it

I think you're probably giving this read more strength than you should, it's very easy to be biased by things like this, but it's still a good reason to TR someone

maybe i am but i just feel through playing a lot of games w him i've grown to just Know what his towngame is, maybe i need a scumgame to be thrown out of the saddle but for now i'm good w townreading no face

this is just default townreading someone all the time lol

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

You can tell this is what he is doing right now with his push on me. It's not alignment sorting - it's push to kill.

This really isn't true :<

it kind of is because in the face of new information you are choosing to persist instead of resetting :3

you forget I know you very well : )

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

pooky, i basically feel the same way about you, am i scum for voting you? i don't feel like you've done anything this game that's towny, you gave us a ~plan~ but it doesn't feel like you've much done anything to facilitate that plan giving us good results

the plan says to let the 3 pool make the elim decision because of the constraints on the scum side and because the information generated would lead to a superior outcome even if we miss on d1.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

the essence of his push on me isn't "I scumread Pooky"

it's I town-read everyone else for ___, ____, ____, and _____

It leaves one person out of the equation, notably that's himself.

It's an effective strategy for pushing mis-elims on d1 because you create a coalition/support by handing out townreads to get people to help you, and you create a mutual target for everyone to go after.

It's also incredibly difficult for me to defend against because he's not actually scum-reading me for anything, so there's nothing for me to refute

then tomm after I'm flipped town he will "go back" to his townreads and "think" about where he went wrong.

But why can't I just be town who townreads the other 4?_?

Because you're not really sorting my slot and I understand this type of push because I use it a lot.

see the scum in the 6 pool is a shark.

it has to kill and push because sharks either swim or they sink.

I'm fairly sure you had this line of attack planned out when you put us in this pool together and I am very honored you would come at me this way <3

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

If I get lim’d today I wanna be deadsheeped tomorrow

@pooky u owe me for the normal

didn't I save you in the normal on d1? lol

let's just call it even

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

pooky, i basically feel the same way about you, am i scum for voting you? i don't feel like you've done anything this game that's towny, you gave us a ~plan~ but it doesn't feel like you've much done anything to facilitate that plan giving us good results

the plan says to let the 3 pool make the elim decision because of the constraints on the scum side and because the information generated would lead to a superior outcome even if we miss on d1.

But this is still a terrible plan, we are giving the decision to a pool that contains a high % of scum that is disincentivized to bus.
It is about the best way to guarantee we miskill today, and the "information" we get from it will likely be that the people in the small pool were wrong about the town we just killed.

we don't actually have to follow the plan if we don't like the result at the end.

it's more to take advantage of the fact that the scum in the 3pool can't bus due to game constraints to generate information.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I deadsheeped u on fark and helped save skitter!

that's t rue

you were a dashing hero that saved the game from the clutches of prince farkran

but i did save you first <3

or rather Skitter saved you first

I just showed up and stomped my feet angrily in Farkran's direction

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

the scum in the 3pool can't bus

This isn’t true and is a bad assumption and lends itself to gambiting

i mean sure they could go very gambitty but I wanna push the scum to take risks in this kind of setup

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Pooky if you want the reasons why I think you could be scum and have been on the back of No Face's mind:

In the last coalition game you played as town, you were really excited about the prospect of a day 1 win and actively pushed hard for it. But while doing this you were also outting lots of reads are trying to win the game by finding town and scum

In this game, you acted similarly about the big day 1 win but did nothing to help it like giving reads or finding town/scum. It's like you're going through the motions but not doing the fieldwork I saw you were eager to do in that coalition game

:/

um in the coalition game I also didn't really force a coalition through until much later in the day when I re-assessed.

also my plan in this game was literally punt the elim decision to the 3pool to see how they decided on the elim because of the cross-scum dynamics.

in the 6pool you're much more likely to get TvT fighting which I wanted to avoid.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

pooky, what's different between this game and nancy vs titus, by the way?

it feels like, generally, when you're town and someone you Like is town, you sort of don't immediately jump to thinking they're scum and start pushing them and trying to case; it feels like you call them silly, go "oh you're town haha and all your reads are good but not that one!" and you're not... doing that this game? there's a lack of silliness when it comes to the /content/ (because even when you were getting pushed there i feel you had a sense of levity in how you responded) and here it's just like you are more down to business, "he is scum he is not town with a bad read" and i want to understand what you think the difference is? because from what i can tell, you shouldn't be reacting like this to his read on you (at least, fmpov beacuse i think he's town) :<

i also have a tinfoil i will keep to myself that makes me think you are leaning more into scum

Well you can read in the mason discord, I said I thought Hectic's probly town because all of his scumreads except for me are the same as all of my scumreads so he's got the same approach to the game as me.

That's not possible to do here because there's no multiple other scumreads for me to use as a baseline to read him.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i will never be convinced to kill no face btw idc idc idc im doubling down on the townread and i am going to look like a fool if hes scum afte r this game but i've cracked the code where i know how to read him now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

you have literally never played a game with scum!him so how would you know what scum!him looks like?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i will never be convinced to kill no face btw idc idc idc im doubling down on the townread and i am going to look like a fool if hes scum afte r this game but i've cracked the code where i know how to read him now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

you have literally never played a game with scum!him so how would you know what scum!him looks like?

i don't but as it stands right now i feel assured in that, i understand how he approaches reading things, and yes maybe he can replicate it, but in this specific game i was able to identify his like... the way he reads things as town, that i have seen him do over and over, DESPITE the fact that there was a gimmick that i had to read past, which makes me feel especially good about townreading him right now

do you think his scum game is noticeably different from his town game?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

pooky

what are your reads right now? if youve given them can u quote them

No Face is scum and Bingle is his partner

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i know you're going to think this is like, an insane person's rambling but yes, i don't expect anyone else to understand what i'm seeing when i go like, there's a way he thinks about games that i can identify from over time that very much clicks for me as town/not town, and i'm going to feel dumb the day that comes that he's scum against me sure maybe, but like. i feel even then i'll probably have some pings that make me go ? from him and i literally have no pings right now, zero, he's town and he's town beyond the gimmick

The way he thinks about how to push an elimination as town is the same as how he thinks about how to push an elimination as scum. They are two sides of the same coin.

If it was different he would be caught as scum... The thought process doesn't change.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

like if you push mis-elims as scum in a diffferent way than you push elims as town, it would be easy to read and you would get caught.

The difference is intent and agenda

Does he re-evaluate as situation changes?

Does he apply more pressure and push for the early elimination?

It's not difficult for someone of his caliber to replicate a town-push when he is scum, but he does not have as much room to operate because he needs to get mis-elims to win.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Pooky you're treating me like I'm guilty until proven innocent :/

No actually that's how you've been treating me this entire game....

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I haven't even pushed you until I gave you multiple chances to re-evaluate your push on me in the light of new information and seeing that you chose to ignore it each and every time I have no alternative but to see this as a scum motivated push to kill and not genuine in trying to sort me.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Again Pooky: all I did was townread 4 players and say I wasn't townreading you

that's all I did and you put a whole load of agenda and added scum motivation to it like I'm hard driving a miselim on you

I think you really might be scum :/

I mean that's kind of how you push mis-elims in a pool of 6 players with 1 scum.

you buddy 4 of them with townreads pretty quick, you push the other one that you think you can get votes on and then you never re-eval their position - just double down and push till they die

then tomm go re-eval your "four townreads"

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I pushed you basically all game when I was Pyro and you thought I was town the whole time :~

because your initial solve of 4 people was me + 3 people I was scum-reading so I knew you had the same perspective as me in the first place.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

pretty sure van is just a wrong townie who is really sure he is right

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

But I didn't double down and push you till you died? I made those reads literally earlier today Pooky :{

I was able to sync with you based on the other three scumreads you had

there's nothing for me to sync with you on here because it's a much smaller game with much fewer scum.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

But if you think the way no face thinks about how to push an elimination as town and scum is the same, then why the fuck are you scumreading him for the way he is pushing to kill you?

I have already explained this many times.

He is not re-evaluating his push,

he is going for kill, not for figuring out if he is on the right track.

his goal isn't to get the

right

elimination, it's to get

an

elimination

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I haven't even pushed you until I gave you multiple chances to re-evaluate your push on me in the light of new information and seeing that you chose to ignore it each and every time I have no alternative but to see this as a scum motivated push to kill and not genuine in trying to sort me.

Can you talk about what exactly the new information is that should have made him reevaluate?

Bingle pushing me hard.

because he has bingle as his most likely scum in the 3 pool,

he knows bingle can't push me if I'm partnered with Bingle because if the scum in the 6pool flips then the game is over.

He decided to hand-wave the information to continue with his push instead of re-evaluating.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

pooky, if you think he's trying to get just /an/ elimination, do you genuinely think he picks you as the person that he's after?

like, getting 1 town elim in the 6p pool does a lot for scum i think, so why not make it easier than you who will stand your ground?

ok who is easier to push for him right now than me? :3

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

are you serious

did you not just play that mini with us where I hard defended the shit out of norwee-town?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Pooky what would ur feelings be on me hammering u and then forcing no face through tomorrow when the wrong!bloc, as they will henceforth be known, have no more sway in the game for having pushed through your terrible lim?

im pretty sure you get shot in the night dude and ydrasse is pockitd and will never change her mind and vander is the fall guy for day 2

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Bingle pushing me hard.

because he has bingle as his most likely scum in the 3 pool,

he knows bingle can't push me if I'm partnered with Bingle because if the scum in the 6pool flips then the game is over.

He decided to hand-wave the information to continue with his push instead of re-evaluating.

To me SRing someone when rand is a 33% chance of them being scum means there's a 40% chance of being scum so I don't really get this argument

Infinity put yourself in a town player's shoes.

You're pushing Player X to be elimmed from 6Pool

The person you most believe to be scum from 3Pool decides to also hardpush Player X.

At that point do you double down on your push or do you re-evaluate where you are going?

Because remember the 3Pool scum can't actually bus the 6Pool scum, 6Pool scum flips, the game is over.

His reaction to Bingle pushing me was to just hand-wave it and continue on like nothing was happening.

That's not a town!no face reaction because town him would be re-evaling as the push goes on and he sees how much traction he gets.

Remember he called me/bingle a team even after bingle pushed me.


Furthermore think about what the scum in the 6pool does.

Let's say you flip red alignment, you put yourself in 6 pool, you're fairly sure the battle is going to be here, someone is going to get elimmed and you need it not to be you.

You need a pathway to push a mis-elim, you can't really afford to twiddle your fingers and like hope to chill right?

He began the game with a push not on an SR but on 4 TRs in the first couple of pages because there's nothing to refute when you push on POE and its got side effect of helping you pocket some townies along the way who can help you push.

Like if he wanted to actually sort my alignment, he'd have something he'd SR me that he'd want to talk about right?

like hey Pooky you posted ____ which is scummy, or Pooky I don't see why town you posts that.

Nah instead it's just I TR these 4 so you are scum by extension.

That's not something I can have a conversation with him about.

Even if he were to make some shit up about Pooky is scum because of ____, then at least we'd have something to talk about and that might help him sort my alignment.

Instead he's not

interested

in sorting my alignment - the goal of the push is to get a mis-elim.

and I'm sure after I flip town tommorrow he will have "re-evaluated his townreads" and decided ____ is actually the villain.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I know how Pooky is in his prime 1v1ing and I hate 1v1ing

I don't pick him to push anyway if I was scum :#

if I'm in my prime 1v1ing why didn't I 1v1 push somebody myself instead of

saying that the best way to sort both pools is to make the three player pool decide who to elim from the six player pool

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

That's not a town!no face reaction because town him would be re-evaling as the push goes on and he sees how much traction he gets.

Remember he called me/bingle a team even after bingle pushed me.

So uh

How does you insisting that scum cannot bus and bingle then unvoting you tie into this equation?

he hadn't unvoted me when I was making the post.

Also it doesn't change the fact that No Face was hardpushing me and not re-evaling as Bingle was also pushing me and voting me.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

are you serious

did you not just play that mini with us where I hard defended the shit out of norwee-town?[/q]
I think pooky is even more mafia now

I think it is EXTREMELY scummy to say "well who could this player possibly have pushed on other than me?" and then try to use the above as a reason why no face wouldn't be inclined to push Norwegian, to nitpick at an answer to a question that is very obviously wrong.
Like, it should be extremely clear to everyone that pooky is not literally the only player in the pool of six that no face could have pushed on.

I'm saying he's literally seen me read norwee town correctly and defend norwee from a scum push so I'm pretty sure he would know he couldn't get away with pushing norwee-town in this game state...

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

This is not the first time you've said this last line

You're saying if you die and no face realizes he was wrong he will reevaluate, this is super obvious but you're saying it like it's a bad thing

when I put "re-evaluate" in quotes, I'm being sarcastic.

What mean is scum no face will look for his next target and it's probably going to be you.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

In fact I'm coming from pretty much the exact same spot as no face because I SR you mostly by PoE and jingle has a 50% to be scum from my PoV, which is more than from hectic's PoV unless he's absurdly confident

Actually, pooky, why am I not scummy for literally the exact same reasons as no face

You're not pushing to kill me and you are actually considering other options

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

You're explaining what no face is doing, and the progression, but I'm missing the parts that make you believe that he is actually scum from it.
I don't really buy the thing about no face not being allowed to go after you since bingle voted you as what I can gather is the only reason no face is scum for this.

I'm not saying he's not allowed to go for me

I am saying he's not interested in evaluating my alignment.

Push to kill and push to sort look completely different.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i'm gonna be honest i'm kinda exhausted irl and don't really have energy for this tonight

sorry for spamming up the game <3

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

No face was not pushing to kill you when you started SRing him

ok what do you think he was pushing me for then?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

No face was not pushing to kill you when you started SRing him

ok what do you think he was pushing me for then?

All I remember is him stating that he thought you were likely scum by PoE. That is what I did when I voted no face and then you.

Right but your vote moves around based on who you think is most scummy in the moment - you've like voted 5 or 6 people by now and I can follow the thought process behind your votes;

No Face started out with his vote on bingle then moved to me after it was clear we r elimming in the 6pool.

He hasn't re-evaluated since.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I simply don't have the energy for this 1v1 Pooky is forcing but I do think him forcing it is very scum-indicative. I would rather just be eliminated today than have to fight him for pages upon pages if that's what it takes though, it just isn't enjoyable for me at all to do that

Menalque and skitter both scumread as usual

(I smile but I am actually reasonably frustrated)

hectic r u town?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

omgggg pooky have you considered the fact that you maybe the stuff your posting isn't changing his mind like i feel like you're conflating "re-evaluating" as "must townread me" or something

i wasn't even talking about the stuff I was posting Ydra

there's more than just 2 people playing the game.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

that's not even what I said...

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I wouldn't think this is scum-indicative necessarily but it might be when I was getting on everyone's case about not TRing me. It's easier to just call me town there (esp when pooky has recent experience with scum!me that was very different from here)

PEdit: consistent reads across like 2 RL days isn't really scummy, PoE reads are also less likely to change than others

2 RL days when there's nothing going on in the game sure. but when your target is at E-1 and the person you think is most likely to be scum in the 3pool is voting for him don't you think you have to pump the brakes and think a bit considering how important the day 1 elimination is?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I'm obviously town

I would just be shitposting nonstop in the 3P if I was scum >.>

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I'm obviously town

I would just be shitposting nonstop in the 3P if I was scum >.>

Why would you put yourself in the 3p hood? 2_"

I wouldnt be able to resist flirting with skitter in a 3p hood while she paranoiad over whether I am scum :3.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Pooky if you want the reasons why I think you could be scum and have been on the back of No Face's mind:

In the last coalition game you played as town, you were really excited about the prospect of a day 1 win and actively pushed hard for it. But while doing this you were also outting lots of reads are trying to win the game by finding town and scum

In this game, you acted similarly about the big day 1 win but did nothing to help it like giving reads or finding town/scum. It's like you're going through the motions but not doing the fieldwork I saw you were eager to do in that coalition game

:/

1. That coalition game was me and koba hydra'd and we were both spamming the game cuz when you put 2 alpha-shitposters in a hydra you get an alpha-shitposter squared.

2. my reads that game weren't very good - pretty much had a scum in my coalition the whole time, I was wrong about farren almost the entire way I think?

3. me taking over the thread that game actually stagnated the game state because once everyone was like "ok bear is obvtown and we will sheep them" - the game state slowed down dramatically and people stopped posting as much and we ended up getting bored and not having really an idea of what to do.

4. the only thing I thought I did successfully that game was abuse norwee enough to the point where he obvtown'd himself. I felt kind of bad about that afterwards and I think I'm better at reading him now so I don't think I need to resort to a full scale shitpush just to sort his slot anymore.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

You were town in shea's among us Pooky, right? Which side of the alternate wincon debate did you fall?

I wanted to no elim -> taskwin

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Do you not understand that if Bingle and I were team-scum and if I were to flip scum he would just lose there and the distancing would be worth not a thing?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

guys

we r killing in the 6p hood today

because if we hit the scum in the 3p hood, the scum shoot one of the players in the 3p hood, and tomm we r back to trying to find the scum in the 6p hood.

but if we hit the scum in the 6p hood, the game is over and we win.

I feel like it's best to aim for the 3p hood until we hit mafia there, since we're guaranteed to be able to find the mafia in there at some point before we lose, and we get more info that way. It doesn't really matter that if we hit scum immediately there we win, since that's going to be true whether or not we spend some lynches in the 3p pool first.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

But especially in this set, like, I just want the best lynch.
If we kill the scum in the big pool, we autowin the game regardless of how much content we have.
Given the opportunity, I would happily hammer pooky right now.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

when did you change your mind?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

no I'm asking you when you changed your mind on which pool was best to elim in.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

see this is what I'm talking about when I say you are tunneled in on one outcome aka Pooky scum and refuse to re-eval based on game state / new events.

Now you're like oh it can't be Bingle/Pooky so let's just slot it as Skitter/Pooky since the other 2 3Poolers have stated they are ok with flipping Pooky.

Instead of looking at game state to see whether the elim you are pushing is scum, you just change your theory to get the elim you want.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

uh when have you seen scum me push back on town you? I just pocket you dude

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

never

I just pocket you before you get going

you only push me when you're town

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

meant you only push me when I'm town

I usually pocket you when I'm scum like immediately?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

have you ever played scum vs town me? I dont know all your alts :3

i remember every time I'm scum and you're town you usually don't push me and I end up pocketing you.

when we're town together usually you townread me except when you don't and then we end up doing some shitty fight

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I'd pour you some tea and tell you a story about a Plumber and his favorite teddy bear and at the end of it you would be convinced I could do no harm.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I'm pretty sure Norwee is town - his opinions this game have been pretty unrestrained and his engagement is pretty much around his town level.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I'd pour you some tea and tell you a story about a Plumber and his favorite teddy bear and at the end of it you would be convinced I could do no harm.

Who do you think it is in the 6-group if this is a TvT? v:

I think its between Ydra and Vand if this is TvT, lean towards Vander - they're both very vehemently on your side, which is kinda how I think scum would play if they had a TvT fight in the thread to hide in.

Don't think Mena would WK me here cuz he's in the elim pool and it's just way easier for him to just lol-hammer me,

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I kinda doubt this is TvT though cuz I think town!you would've reconsidered when the game state rushed towards an early elimination instead of continuing to push.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I think we just disagree about whether I was going to be early launched and I have the added benefit of knowing I'm town so the danger feels a lot more real to me

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

What changed?

your line about it being better to elim in the 6 pool made me remember your argument with me about the three pool in the beginning of the game and I think it's convenient that you changed your mind about what the best mech play is now that you have a target close to elim.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Don't think Mena would WK me here cuz he's in the elim pool and it's just way easier for him to just lol-hammer me,

I don't get this btw

Hasn't everyone townread Menalque? It's not a big concern for him, and lolhammering you would make him lose a lot of cred if he's scum and needs to survive long l.l

Mena is a very high energy player.

It is exhausting to keep up that level of town energy if he is scum, it's much better for him that the days are shorter and he swims forward rather than drawing things out.

Also kinda doubt he gets any blowback from a lol-hammer since you're the one being the primary pusher.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I really, REALLY don't believe you think this, especially since in my 2000 word explanation to you about it I've never once said that it's better to kill into the big pool.

the way I read your push for my elim because "if you hit in the big pool you win the game and don't need info" made me feel like you were not only advocating for an elim in the 6 pool but you were also saying its fine to do it quickly - which is a convenient take given the game state.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

But especially in this set, like, I just want the best lynch.
If we kill the scum in the big pool, we autowin the game regardless of how much content we have.
Given the opportunity, I would happily hammer pooky right now.

This is you pushing for a quick-hammer on me today.

You say one of the big reasons for this is because we won't need information if I flip scum because the game will be over.

This statement is objectively true but I know I'm not flipping scum so you kind of will need information and it's not good to rush this.

From an uninformed town perspective without knowledge of my alignment which is what you should have, you don't know whether the elim target is scum or town, so you want more information anyway.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Did you read any of my posts where I respond directly to you about what exactly I think about what pool we should be lynching into?
This is a genuine question.

are you talking about where you say we should always elim whoever is the most suspicious?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

But why would he be scum doing it? It seems very genuine to me, and i’ve almost reached the same conclusion.

Scum!him needs a mis-elim to get to day 2.

town!him wants to sort my alignment and get the right elim.

There's no way to have a conversation about a POE elim if he insists on tunneling it all the way through.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

we are not even 2 days into a 14 day deadline why are you trying to push a quick hammer?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Do you think quick elims can't possibly happen?


When a town player votes and that wagon gathers steam esp from people they suspect and in a ruleset where bussing results in auto-lose how does a town player not re-evaluate at that point?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Pooky’s making it out like it’s an very aggressive push from No Face, when it’s not. And that seems a bit disingenious from Pooky.

Norwee how dead do I have to be before it's considered aggressive?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Pooky’s making it out like it’s an very aggressive push from No Face, when it’s not. And that seems a bit disingenious from Pooky.

Norwee how dead do I have to be before it's considered aggressive?

No matter how I wrap my head around it, I can't take this line as good faith from Pooky

Everyone has an early suspicion and vote, yes scum need mislaunches, but town also vote whoever they most suspect at any given time. He's somehow managed to characterize my PoE vote with nor reasons attached and not soemthing I tried to push at all as "aggressive, intent to kill, driving a miselim"

I never started properly reading and pushing him as scum

until

he was scumreading me for those absurd reasons

and then there's the Bingle thing which I really don't want to talk about again...

#.#

Hectic is there any point where you actually tried to have a conversation with me about my alignment before I accused you of trying to kill me?

Are you going to say that you weren't trying to kill me ?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I mean it's not like i'm saying you shouldn't defend yourself. But defending by attacking and characterizing his reads as an extreme target assault towards you seems like an overreaction and a bit extreme.
I do think you've entered town range from recent postings though.

I'm not saying it's an extreme assault.

That's the point.

Hectic is not going to go all in on an extreme all out attack on me d1....

I flip green, he is dead tomm if he goes all in attacking me.

My criticism of his push isn't that it's super extreme/aggressive.

It's that there's nothing in the push where he's trying to alignment sort me, it's just a "here's my vote", I don't actually want to talk to you about anything, I don't actually have proper reasons to scum-read you, I won't actually re-consider your alignment.

There's no

alignment sorting/figuring out

it's just a vote and he hopes I die.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

For Example, this post below is the closest thing he made in terms of a post where he's actually giving reasons for why I am scum:

Pooky if you want the reasons why I think you could be scum and have been on the back of No Face's mind:

In the last coalition game you played as town, you were really excited about the prospect of a day 1 win and actively pushed hard for it. But while doing this you were also outting lots of reads are trying to win the game by finding town and scum

In this game, you acted similarly about the big day 1 win but did nothing to help it like giving reads or finding town/scum. It's like you're going through the motions but not doing the fieldwork I saw you were eager to do in that coalition game

:/

1. That coalition game was me and koba hydra'd and we were both spamming the game cuz when you put 2 alpha-shitposters in a hydra you get an alpha-shitposter squared.

2. my reads that game weren't very good - pretty much had a scum in my coalition the whole time, I was wrong about farren almost the entire way I think?

3. me taking over the thread that game actually stagnated the game state because once everyone was like "ok bear is obvtown and we will sheep them" - the game state slowed down dramatically and people stopped posting as much and we ended up getting bored and not having really an idea of what to do.

4. the only thing I thought I did successfully that game was abuse norwee enough to the point where he obvtown'd himself. I felt kind of bad about that afterwards and I think I'm better at reading him now so I don't think I need to resort to a full scale shitpush just to sort his slot anymore.

I explain the differences in the two games played and why it's not only a bad comparison between the two games, but also why I wouldn't repeat the same moves that I made in that game in this game.

Most importantly being that the moves I made in that game didn't really

work

for reaching my goal which was a day 1 coalition win.

He responded to my response about his suspicion with an off-hand joke about how he just waits for other people to sort norwee a few posts later and ignores my other points.

Do you think that's a good faith effort to sort me?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I've been talking about your reaction and trying to understand it nonstop since it happened Pooky -.-

Ok explain how this reaction makes more sense from scum!me than town!me then

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

it was the first irl day of the game and you blew it out of proportion like I was lining you up as the designated mislaunch or something which baffles me

are you not trying to kill me? like am i reading this situation wrong here?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

like the way I think about votes in the early game, you're going for two things

1) Reactions
2) Kills

If you vote and start talking to them, you're looking for a certain reaction to help you solve their slot

If you vote and you don't talk to them and just twiddle your thumbs while they get closer to elim - you're voting to kill them.

I find scum tend to vote early, then never read-progress as the wagon builds, then when it goes thru early and a kill happens, they don't have accountability issues on the next day.

For example I was elimmed d1 recently in a newbie game, the scum was the first person who voted me and he never came back to talk to me, I got quick-elimmed and he ended up winning fairly quickly.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I've been talking about your reaction and trying to understand it nonstop since it happened Pooky -.-

Ok explain how this reaction makes more sense from scum!me than town!me then

I thought 1v1s were your thing as scum? Might be where you're more comfortable in or thought you needed to cause this and not get PoEd out if I was correct in townreading everyone else. Are you saying you wouldn't react like this as scum>

?.?

Ok buddy are you honestly going to say that you think I have the upper hand 1v1ing you here?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I do want you flipped now, but not back then, it was a vote, not I want to kill this person right now. The reason I scumread you now is because of the way you've reacted to this whole thing 4-4

ok then explain to me why scum!me wants to force a 1v1 then

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

The support didn't go your way but what indication did you have it wouldn't when you started this whole thing? '/'

I started this whole thing when you put me at e-1 and there were multiple people not on the wagon who indicated they would be ok with killing me.

why would I even think support would go my way ? r u seirous?!?!

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Pooky why do you keep asking me these questions like I have to perfectly explain your scum motivations to determine you're scum? Your reaction feels bad faith to me and that's scummy

I could ask you the same question: Why do I pick you of everyone to vote in the first place, and when you push back on me, why do I double down? You know I don't like 1v1s or conflicts like this, and would rather avoid it as scum

2_2

Because I don't think you've actually thought out why this reaction makes 0 sense from Scum!Me and I wouldn't react to town!you pushing me this way as scum at all.

You doubling down on voting me out for my reaction to you is borderline ridiculous at this point

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

No? It was before you were ever put on e-1.1

really? which post do you think I started 1v1ing you in then?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I could ask you the same question: Why do I pick you of everyone to vote in the first place, and when you push back on me, why do I double down? You know I don't like 1v1s or conflicts like this, and would rather avoid it as scum

because positionally you're winning and able to push through this mis-elim.

It's a helluva lot easier than to flip one of your other townreads to a scumread.

and I think you might be enjoying 1v1ing me as much as you keep saying you don't.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

591 609 all indicate you think I'm scum, no?]]#

actually those were reach outs where I give you the chance to re-consider your mis-elim push on me in the presence of new information aka bingle voting/pushing me as well.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

You keep saying you wouldn't react like this as scum, then how would you actually? You gave a non-serious answer earlier, but I'd be interested in hearing how you think you'd actually react 1{£

I'd probably just ignore your wagon and hope it dissipates on its own because it's not even two days into the game and the first major wagon of any game usually just dies.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Like you repeatedly say that my reaction is why you want to kill me.

But when I ask you how my reaction makes sense from a scum!me perspective;

like what am i trying to get out of this?

why would scum!me force an early 1v1 with town!you?

You complain that I'm bad faith putting the burden on you to perfectly map out my scum reaction.

Do you see how these two contentions don't actually mesh?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

no me pushing for me to be left behind in trust fall made perfect sense.

I wanted to get the people who were scum reading me out of the game so I could more easily manipulate the game state.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

In reality, I don't really know why you would here but I also don't understand why town!you would react the way you did here ~.~

ok so if you don't understand why my reaction would come from scum!me why would you say you want to kill me for my reaction?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Like map out what happens if scum!me forces a 1v1 on d1/d2 while at a disadvantage.

probly 60%-80% of the time you elim me, game is over

40%-20% of the time, I elim you, I get elimmed on the next day, town has 2 chances to elim my partner in 3 players, there's probably enough info from D1 to narrow down who the partner is or at least rule out one partner.

Either way I lose.

So why would I even expend the energy to pursue almost certain loss?

This makes 0 sense for scum!me to do to town!you yet you continue to insist that's what's happening here nad that's what's like mindboggling to me. That you think this is a path that scum!me decides to go down.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I'm not saying that Pooky, I'm saying I don't know the exact scum motivation behind your reaction but you having the thoughts which led you to that reaction feels less likely to be real and coming from town!you !;

Which thoughts feel fake to you that couldn't come from town!me?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Thinking I've decided you're the miselim for the day when all I did was PoE vote you, and thinking I should reevaluate one irl day into the game just because Bingle is also voting you and he's my bottom read in the group of 3

gs.d

when you PoE vote someone,

you are not trying to sort their alignment

you are trying to kill them.

Do you not understand this?

If you voted me with a I think Pooky is scum because ___ & ___ or whatever, maybe we could have a conversation and you could sort my alignment

but you're not doing that...

The only time you posted where you actually presented suspicions, I actually responded in detail and you just hand-waved it with a joke.

That is very clear to me you are

not

interested in my actual alignment and you are more interested in killing me.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

pooky, i basically feel the same way about you, am i scum for voting you? i don't feel like you've done anything this game that's towny, you gave us a ~plan~ but it doesn't feel like you've much done anything to facilitate that plan giving us good results

Ydrasse voted you for the same exact reason of PoE and acknowledged that, but you still think I'm scummy for it even though you can see another player in our pool has done the same thing, and we can't both be scum together (one of us is town at least)

:E

Ydrasse tends to be a lot less decisive as scum, I've played a few games with scum!her

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

So you think it's not possible for town me to think you are scum doing a bad faith push for mis-elim when I see no sorting intent from you whatsoever? like really?

that it's way more likely that you're in the world where scum me decided to react to your harmless POE vote by throwing down a 1v1 gauntlet that probly leads to scum me losing?

like is this serious dude?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

or I'm the only one here who understands the purpose of his vote and you guys are kind of snowed by him.

~.~

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

yes but you've at least considered other people and voted in multiple other places and I can see what you're thinking through.

His progression on me is vote and then nothing.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

ok I'm gonna take a break from the thread and just play chill tunes in the hood

VOTE: noone

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

norwee do you not think I'm like incapable of figuring out whether the person pushing me is scum or town?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Like I only have so much patience for this game dude.

Like we literally went through this exact same thing the last time we played.

Fark-scum pushes for my elim on D1, I identify him correctly as scum I push for his elim, nobody listens to me...

Even after he shot me dead at night, you were still on his side.

Like how do I get through to you ?

I don't want to write 600 posts in d1 and get ignored. It's not worth it for me.

It's exhausting. I don't need the aggravation from a game I play for fun dude.

Is it just me ? Am I that not understandable for you?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I don’t think Pooky unvoted Farkran in the previous game? But here he does?

r u serious

did you even read the game :/

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Like how do I get through to you ?

I mean, i get your frustration in not being able to convince me if you’re town here and certain you’re right. But i’m not the type of player that get’s convinced by the exact same argument repeated over and over again. You’re going to have to find another way if you’re that certain No Face is scum.

he is literally doing the same thing farkran did in the last game pushing me lol

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Honestly Pooky is the Farkran of this game in the sense he's lying about something which can easily be fact checked if you go back and read (me pushing to kill him apparently)

ok buddy what are you pushing me for if not to kill me?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

ok when you do that do you have reasons for your votes?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Yes thats true

but as infomation changes and your reasons are addressed/answered... you change your vote no?

if you dont just hand wave it and keep voting the same person...

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Hectic's reasons weren't addressed/answered though

Yes they were I'll quote them for you

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Pooky if you want the reasons why I think you could be scum and have been on the back of No Face's mind:

In the last coalition game you played as town, you were really excited about the prospect of a day 1 win and actively pushed hard for it. But while doing this you were also outting lots of reads are trying to win the game by finding town and scum

In this game, you acted similarly about the big day 1 win but did nothing to help it like giving reads or finding town/scum. It's like you're going through the motions but not doing the fieldwork I saw you were eager to do in that coalition game

:/

1. That coalition game was me and koba hydra'd and we were both spamming the game cuz when you put 2 alpha-shitposters in a hydra you get an alpha-shitposter squared.

2. my reads that game weren't very good - pretty much had a scum in my coalition the whole time, I was wrong about farren almost the entire way I think?

3. me taking over the thread that game actually stagnated the game state because once everyone was like "ok bear is obvtown and we will sheep them" - the game state slowed down dramatically and people stopped posting as much and we ended up getting bored and not having really an idea of what to do.

4. the only thing I thought I did successfully that game was abuse norwee enough to the point where he obvtown'd himself. I felt kind of bad about that afterwards and I think I'm better at reading him now so I don't think I need to resort to a full scale shitpush just to sort his slot anymore.

Okay

I just read Norwee by waiting for someone else to push him and seeing how he reacts 2_2

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

if you think person A is scummy because of ______ reason

and they address _____ reason,

and you think their explanation makes sense and _____ reason is no longer valid,

you would change your mind on person A

unless _____ reason was never important to you in the first place.

unless you don't actually care what person A's alignment is.

Thought formation in the head works two ways:


(1) Reason ____ -> Person A is scum.

and

(2) I want to kill Person A, what's a good excuse for doing it? How about Reason _____


(1) is a townie thought process, you see something suspicious and it leads you to a suspect and you want to push them for an explanation.

(2) is a scum thought process, you need a mis-elim and you are looking for reasons to justify your mis-elim push.


(2) is exclusively what Farkran used to push me in Mini 2200, he would make up a reason to suspect me, and when I addressed his reason, he would just move on to a new reason, never really stopping to re-evaluate my alignment.

It was only after I hardclaimed strong TPR that he stopped his push.

That's why I was so sure Farkran was scum, because (2) is used by scum to get mis-elims whereas (1) is a townie actually looking for bad guys.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Hectic's reasons weren't addressed/answered though

Yes they were I'll quote them for you

The PoE wasn't addressed though

It's not even possible to address a PoE.

Am I supposed to find reasons that he should have for townreading me that he didn't see? He could just argue those reasons are NAI or performed by scum me to get townread.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

-Saying I should reevaluate you because Bingle is also voting you and I have Bingle also in my PoE, when they were independent reads, not team ones
-skitter is acting very strange around you and I think you're partners

This again is fitting the worldview to the mis-elim.

When presented with evidence that his read on the game doesn't fit with the elim he's driving at, he will just change his worldview to one that does fit with the elim he is driving at.

"oh bingle doesn't work with pooky as a scum partner? well let's use skitter then!"

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

>I vote you because I townread 4 others and you were nullscum for the coalition reasons
>You pushed back on me and I started scumreading that pushback
>You addressed those coliation reasons
>I continue voting you because I scumread you for stronger other reasons

You say you scumread me for my reaction and pushback.

But when I ask you for why my reaction/pushback make sense from a scum!pov, you say you don't know.

again not a real thought process or good faith on your part.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

No you have to address why the reasons for townreading other people are wrong. That's how a PoE works.

you do realize that in practice all that does is recruit allies to his side and he can just dismiss my argument for why ___ is scum and that ___ will end up supporting him right?

This is why PoE pushes are good where you need to force a 1v1 in a 1-guranteed scum pool - you are recruiting allies and you can't really get deflected.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

It could be from scum!you for a few reasons, I said I don't know the exact reason and don't need to...

If you want possible reasons:
-You like 1v1s and feel comfortable in them
-You thought you could win this 1v1
-You assumed I or others would think that you wouldn't try and 1v1 me as scum
-You believed in your reasoning as scum and thought it would make you look towny, which is why you pursued this 1v1

It doesn't matter to me. It reads of bad faith .-.

I've literally already addressed this

It doesn't matter in the Scum!Me world if I win this 1v1 or not.

Either (a) scum!me gets killed by you and I lose.

or

(b) I kill you, I die the next day, you say only skitter makes sense as my partner so she dies next and we lose?

Like why would I even put myself through that experience by pursuing a 1v1 with you? It's ridiculous you think I bother doing this when I'm going to lose at the end of it no matter what if I'm scum.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Sorry, I really think you're scum. Even the way you're acting in this 1v1 feels really different to me

You thought I was scum in Undertale when we 1v1ed there and you felt completely different - you were full of compassion, constantly worried you might wrong, and sad rather than frustrated

You feel like scum on the ropes here

:1

cuz I was a lot less sure of whether you were the last scum in that game so that was agonizing.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I'm done with this argument

fine but just promise me you elim him next ok? I'm sick of talking about this thing that's so obvious that apparently nobody but me can see anyway

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Well it looks that way now, but when this thing started, you probably didn't anticipate it'd be looking like this a few days down the line. Maybe you were hoping for it to be called a TvT by most, or that people thought your reasoning was towny so you were towny regardless

so now I'm 1v1ing you in order to try to look town? is my reaction townie or scummy dude? like make up your mind

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

If you're actually town, then sure, I'd take the yeet next and join you for some salt memes in the dead thread lol

but I don't think so :2

I don't see how people don't read what you say and realize it's just fake lol

it's literally wild

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I'm saying possible motivations for why scum!you would make the initial decision to 1v1 me Pooky

obviously it looks dire for you now and you wouldn't make the same decision back then as scum .'.

uh so it didn't look dire for me when you had 4 votes on me and people not on the wagon saying they wanted to kill me? lolol what world are you even pretending to live in

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

If you're actually town, then sure, I'd take the yeet next and join you for some salt memes in the dead thread lol

but I don't think so :2

like a town player just never says this ever.

because if I flip town, why would he just eat the yeet and let town go to lylo? lol just wild the stuff he is making up here

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

It's not fake, if you flip town, I'd feel bad and wouldn't fight or try and defend myself much if people wanted my blood tomorrow - this has already been way more effort than I usually put into a mafia game this early, it can be a little draining

:d

you'd feel bad for killing town me so you'd make it up to me by letting town you also die??

r u serious!?!?!?!?

how is this a real thought in your head?!?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

The 1v1 started before you were on L-1 and it looked that bad for you...

see this is what I mean by misrepping facts that can be looked up, did you take a page from Farkran's book?

Oh I'm sorry it began when I was on E-2 instead of E-1,

that's a huge difference. I'm sure I felt much safer at E-2 with 2 people pushing for me to die

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

it's fake because that's not how town!you would actually think about a town!me flip

you don't make it up to town!me by throwing town!you in a river and joining me and then town is at lylo without a clue where to go next.

like what r u even saying dude

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

yea I would say your effort level here is very different from your effort level in the dance game where you were town.

you saw it would be hard to convince unwnd so you just decided to take the easy way out and take your own partner out because maybe hatter was scum.

see in the dance game you had a bit of hope that maybe you were wrong about hatters. Here you don't really have a choice, if I kill you the game is over so you have to fully commit.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

and like you only need to buy your partner 1 day. you flip tomorrow instead of today they have a fighting chance in a 3pool with 2 elims.

I'm the one who it makes no sense to be putting effort into this fight. you say my only reasonable partner is skitter, so like why would i even bother fighting? I win and you die, tomm I die, the next day skitter dies, what's in it for me to put this effort in? It's like absurd the reality you are claiming at this point.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

why ydra?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

uh you read it correctly

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I was more concerned because I thought you wouldn't kill hectic tomm after I townflip

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

just like you didnt want to kill farkran after he shot me at night ydra

sometimes I really just cant get thru to people

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

like do you think its at all possible I just have better idea of how scum!hectic plays this versus me than like you do?

like even after I flip town you still won't consider scum!hectic? I mean what do I need to do lol

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I'm not sure who his partner is but I would guess not Infinity