Micro 1033: XD [Game Over]

[Kerset]

Vote Count 2.04

With 7 votes in play, it takes 4 to eliminate.

Bingle (1): MegAzumarill,
MegAzumarill (1): imaginality,
LicketyQuickety (0):
imaginality (0):
Clemency (0):
Mystik Spiral (0):
Wisdom (0):

Not Voting

(5): Clemency, Mystik Spiral, Bingle, Wisdom, LicketyQuickety,

Deadline:

(expired on 2021-12-03 05:00:00).

Mod notes:

-

[Mystik Spiral]

I wouldn't say hard pushing since I didn't really have that much confidence in scum! Clem read. I just felt it was better than cakez marginally.

Read as you want I guess

then why were you suddenly worried about them being jester?

[MegAzumarill]

If cakez is jester we lose either way
If clemency is jester I saved the game for everyone.

Can you seriously look at the clemency slot and think that that can't be jester ?

no, he definitely could be,

You literally agree with me why are we still discussing this

[MegAzumarill]

Maybe I can put it into a better phrasing.
If I did not do that our situation would have been equivalent to one of the following:

Choosing the day 2 or 3 lim before all the discussion on that day.

Flipping 4 people before the jester dies.

Neither of these situations are particularly helpful.

[MegAzumarill]

It's the same logic as selfhammering as town when nobody is going to hammer you at deadline.
It's a mechanically better situation for town.

[Mystik Spiral]

I wouldn't say hard pushing since I didn't really have that much confidence in scum! Clem read. I just felt it was better than cakez marginally.

Read as you want I guess

If cakez is jester we lose either way
If clemency is jester I saved the game for everyone.

Can you seriously look at the clemency slot and think that that can't be jester ?

no, he definitely could be,

You literally agree with me why are we still discussing this

because you keep contradicting yourself. if you thought he could be jester, then why make this statement?
also what made Cakez a good lim anyways, since he was pretty obviously town. LQ probably looks the best on Cakez wagon followed by Wisdom. like i’m not going to high five anyone for pushing town.

[Bingle]

I wouldn't say hard pushing since I didn't really have that much confidence in scum! Clem read. I just felt it was better than cakez marginally.

Read as you want I guess

If cakez is jester we lose either way
If clemency is jester I saved the game for everyone.

Can you seriously look at the clemency slot and think that that can't be jester ?

no, he definitely could be,

You literally agree with me why are we still discussing this

because you keep contradicting yourself. if you thought he could be jester, then why make this statement?
also what made Cakez a good lim anyways, since he was pretty obviously town. LQ probably looks the best on Cakez wagon followed by Wisdom. like i’m not going to high five anyone for pushing town.

MS, Meg is right. Let me try for a moment:

At deadline you are at E2 and I’m at E2. Neither of us is Jester, but Wisdom doesn’t know that for sure. Wisdom is on neither wagon because he wants Meg eliminated.

Wisdom should choose one of us to eliminate because the alternative is that either of us being Jester loses the game for everyone else. He could be hard townreading both of us, but he still makes that choice because there’s ALWAYS the chance his read is wrong.

[Mystik Spiral]

I wouldn't say hard pushing since I didn't really have that much confidence in scum! Clem read. I just felt it was better than cakez marginally.

Read as you want I guess

If cakez is jester we lose either way
If clemency is jester I saved the game for everyone.

Can you seriously look at the clemency slot and think that that can't be jester ?

no, he definitely could be,

You literally agree with me why are we still discussing this

because you keep contradicting yourself. if you thought he could be jester, then why make this statement?
also what made Cakez a good lim anyways, since he was pretty obviously town. LQ probably looks the best on Cakez wagon followed by Wisdom. like i’m not going to high five anyone for pushing town.

MS, Meg is right. Let me try for a moment:

At deadline you are at E2 and I’m at E2. Neither of us is Jester, but Wisdom doesn’t know that for sure. Wisdom is on neither wagon because he wants Meg eliminated.

Wisdom should choose one of us to eliminate because the alternative is that either of us being Jester loses the game for everyone else. He could be hard townreading both of us, but he still makes that choice because there’s ALWAYS the chance his read is wrong.

no offence Bingle but that isn’t what even happened. Meg wanted to lim Clemency and probably would have if she could have gotten enough votes on him. she is contradicting her stance on Clemency. He can’t both be the best elim and also jester from her PoV.

aren’t both you and Meg now doing the very thing you earlier accused LQ of?

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: Clem

Can we seriously do this YET!!!

[Mystik Spiral]

VOTE: Clem

Can we seriously do this YET!!!

what did you think of my post?

[Bingle]

He can’t both be the best elim and also jester from her PoV.

He doesn’t have to be likely jester to make it a good idea. It has to be possible for him to be jester for it to be a good idea.

If there are two tied wagons at deadline and no one switches to push the other through, THE ELIMINATION THAT IS WORSE FOR TOWN IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE THE ONE WE GET.

If your argument was that Meg was soft pushing Clem while townreading cakez but wasn’t on wagon it’s be scummy. But the breaking of the tie? That’s NAI, possibly anti jester

[Bingle]

SirCakez (3): Clemency, LicketyQuickety, Wisdom,
Clemency (2): imaginality, MegAzumarill,

Like, look at this for a moment. If Clem/cakez is T/T who gets limmed is trivial. If cakez is jester, cakez wins. If Clem is jester, Clem wins. If Clem scum Meg needs two votes to make it so that cakez can’t self vote for the win as jester. If cakez scum, Meg switching to cakez prevents theoretical Clem jester from self voting for the win at deadline.

Is your argument that you think Meg actually could have gotten Clem higher than cakez? That she wasn’t trying to do so at this point? Cause that’s not at all what I’m getting from your argument.

[Mystik Spiral]

my argument is she is both saying Clemency lim was best and then saying she asked LQ to hammer Cakez because Clemency might be jester, so which is it?

[MegAzumarill]

Why does my biggest scumread have to be the one that understands the situation smh

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: Clem

Can we seriously do this YET!!!

what did you think of my post?

I don't understand it tbh. What is Bingle doing that they are accusing me of?

[Mystik Spiral]

I wouldn't say hard pushing since I didn't really have that much confidence in scum! Clem read. I just felt it was better than cakez marginally.

Read as you want I guess

If cakez is jester we lose either way
If clemency is jester I saved the game for everyone.

Can you seriously look at the clemency slot and think that that can't be jester ?

no, he definitely could be,

You literally agree with me why are we still discussing this

because you keep contradicting yourself. if you thought he could be jester, then why make this statement?
also what made Cakez a good lim anyways, since he was pretty obviously town. LQ probably looks the best on Cakez wagon followed by Wisdom. like i’m not going to high five anyone for pushing town.

MS, Meg is right. Let me try for a moment:

At deadline you are at E2 and I’m at E2. Neither of us is Jester, but Wisdom doesn’t know that for sure. Wisdom is on neither wagon because he wants Meg eliminated.

Wisdom should choose one of us to eliminate because the alternative is that either of us being Jester loses the game for everyone else. He could be hard townreading both of us, but he still makes that choice because there’s ALWAYS the chance his read is wrong.

@LQ because this example isn’t the same as the one being referenced.

obviously because Meg was initially pushing for Clemency and in the hypothetical one, Wisdom isn’t voting either because he wants Meg, so how are those two situations similar?

[LicketyQuickety]

I wouldn't say hard pushing since I didn't really have that much confidence in scum! Clem read. I just felt it was better than cakez marginally.

Read as you want I guess

If cakez is jester we lose either way
If clemency is jester I saved the game for everyone.

Can you seriously look at the clemency slot and think that that can't be jester ?

no, he definitely could be,

You literally agree with me why are we still discussing this

because you keep contradicting yourself. if you thought he could be jester, then why make this statement?
also what made Cakez a good lim anyways, since he was pretty obviously town. LQ probably looks the best on Cakez wagon followed by Wisdom. like i’m not going to high five anyone for pushing town.

MS, Meg is right. Let me try for a moment:

At deadline you are at E2 and I’m at E2. Neither of us is Jester, but Wisdom doesn’t know that for sure. Wisdom is on neither wagon because he wants Meg eliminated.

Wisdom should choose one of us to eliminate because the alternative is that either of us being Jester loses the game for everyone else. He could be hard townreading both of us, but he still makes that choice because there’s ALWAYS the chance his read is wrong.

@LQ because this example isn’t the same as the one being referenced.

obviously because Meg was initially pushing for Clemency and in the hypothetical one, Wisdom isn’t voting either because he wants Meg, so how are those two situations similar?

Okay, I

think

I understand. You are saying Bingle isn't giving the same exact example and you are reading that as Scummy?

[Bingle]

my argument is she is both saying Clemency lim was best and then saying she asked LQ to hammer Cakez because Clemency might be jester, so which is it?

They're not mutually exclusive.

Clem can be the best elimination from Meg's PoV and STILL possibly a jester. From a hypothetical townMeg PoV, there wasn't support for the preferred elimination. Her choices were A) leave the wagons tied or B) compromise on an elim.

In a standard game of mafia, compromising to get an elim is a thing. In THIS game of mafia, the only thing not switching to Cakez got meg was a world in which Cakez still died if Clem was town or mafia, but Clem won if Jester. Even if there was only a 0.000000000005% chance of clem being Jester there, it's still correct play to switch to prevent that 0.000000000005% chance of losing the game immediately. The only way Meg is absolutely safe leaving those wagons tied is if Meg is the Jester. I don't think it's strong evidence that Meg isn't the Jester, because thinking "Tied wagons at deadline, jester could win there" is a completely natural thought for Jester to have and Jester mostly wants to look like not Jester.

It doesn't make Meg town (because, you know, Mafia also doesn't want to lose to a jester), but it certainly isn't a reason to scumread her.

And this is not at all what I thought LQ was doing. I was using a hypothetical that was obviously not what happened in this game to illustrate that the behavior is NAI by drawing a comparison. I think LQ was actually trying to convince people that a situation that didn't happen had happened. They are, in fact, very different things.

[imaginality]

SirCakez (3): Clemency, LicketyQuickety, Wisdom,
Clemency (2): imaginality, MegAzumarill,

Like, look at this for a moment. If Clem/cakez is T/T who gets limmed is trivial. If cakez is jester, cakez wins. If Clem is jester, Clem wins. If Clem scum Meg needs two votes to make it so that cakez can’t self vote for the win as jester. If cakez scum, Meg switching to cakez prevents theoretical Clem jester from self voting for the win at deadline.

Is your argument that you think Meg actually could have gotten Clem higher than cakez? That she wasn’t trying to do so at this point? Cause that’s not at all what I’m getting from your argument.

LQ's vote was back on Clem at the time Meg switched to pushing for the Cakez lim. So it wasn't a forlorn hope to get Clem limmed at that point (there were still 4 hours til deadline, and Cakez's vote would have gone on Clem presumably, even if no one else had reconsidered).

[Bingle]

So the argument is that Meg is scum because she didn't assume people who weren't online with 4 hours to deadline were going to be online before deadline?

I mean... She was wrong. I would have been. But that argument is that she was scummy for not having information she couldn't possibly have.

[Bingle]

Actually, holy shit... Why are you people pushing Meg there?

What Wis did was way fucking scummier.

[Bingle]

Vote Count 1.05

With 8 votes in play, it takes 5 to eliminate.

SirCakez (5): Clemency, Wisdom, Bingle, MegAzumarill, LicketyQuickety,
Clemency (1): imaginality,
LicketyQuickety (1): Mystik Spiral,
Bingle (1): SirCakez,
imaginality (0):
MegAzumarill (0):
Mystik Spiral (0):
Wisdom (0):

Not Voting

(0):

Deadline:

(expired on 2021-11-26 05:00:00).

Mod notes:

-

Please note, Deadline was not at 11:00 PM. Deadline was at 5 AM. Wis actively lied about when the day was ending to make it seem like swinging the vote was less likely.

[Mystik Spiral]

I wouldn't say hard pushing since I didn't really have that much confidence in scum! Clem read. I just felt it was better than cakez marginally.

Read as you want I guess

If cakez is jester we lose either way
If clemency is jester I saved the game for everyone.

Can you seriously look at the clemency slot and think that that can't be jester ?

no, he definitely could be,

You literally agree with me why are we still discussing this

because you keep contradicting yourself. if you thought he could be jester, then why make this statement?
also what made Cakez a good lim anyways, since he was pretty obviously town. LQ probably looks the best on Cakez wagon followed by Wisdom. like i’m not going to high five anyone for pushing town.

MS, Meg is right. Let me try for a moment:

At deadline you are at E2 and I’m at E2. Neither of us is Jester, but Wisdom doesn’t know that for sure. Wisdom is on neither wagon because he wants Meg eliminated.

Wisdom should choose one of us to eliminate because the alternative is that either of us being Jester loses the game for everyone else. He could be hard townreading both of us, but he still makes that choice because there’s ALWAYS the chance his read is wrong.

@LQ because this example isn’t the same as the one being referenced.

obviously because Meg was initially pushing for Clemency and in the hypothetical one, Wisdom isn’t voting either because he wants Meg, so how are those two situations similar?

Okay, I

think

I understand. You are saying Bingle isn't giving the same exact example and you are reading that as Scummy?

i don’t understand how his analogy makes sense because of that.

[Mystik Spiral]

I wouldn't say hard pushing since I didn't really have that much confidence in scum! Clem read. I just felt it was better than cakez marginally.

Read as you want I guess

If cakez is jester we lose either way
If clemency is jester I saved the game for everyone.

Can you seriously look at the clemency slot and think that that can't be jester ?

no, he definitely could be,

You literally agree with me why are we still discussing this

because you keep contradicting yourself. if you thought he could be jester, then why make this statement?
also what made Cakez a good lim anyways, since he was pretty obviously town. LQ probably looks the best on Cakez wagon followed by Wisdom. like i’m not going to high five anyone for pushing town.

MS, Meg is right. Let me try for a moment:

At deadline you are at E2 and I’m at E2. Neither of us is Jester, but Wisdom doesn’t know that for sure. Wisdom is on neither wagon because he wants Meg eliminated.

Wisdom should choose one of us to eliminate because the alternative is that either of us being Jester loses the game for everyone else. He could be hard townreading both of us, but he still makes that choice because there’s ALWAYS the chance his read is wrong.

@LQ because this example isn’t the same as the one being referenced.

obviously because Meg was initially pushing for Clemency and in the hypothetical one, Wisdom isn’t voting either because he wants Meg, so how are those two situations similar?

Okay, I

think

I understand. You are saying Bingle isn't giving the same exact example and you are reading that as Scummy?

i don’t understand how his analogy makes sense because of that.

[Mystik Spiral]

Vote Count 1.05

With 8 votes in play, it takes 5 to eliminate.

SirCakez (5): Clemency, Wisdom, Bingle, MegAzumarill, LicketyQuickety,
Clemency (1): imaginality,
LicketyQuickety (1): Mystik Spiral,
Bingle (1): SirCakez,
imaginality (0):
MegAzumarill (0):
Mystik Spiral (0):
Wisdom (0):

Not Voting

(0):

Deadline:

(expired on 2021-11-26 05:00:00).

Mod notes:

-

Please note, Deadline was not at 11:00 PM. Deadline was at 5 AM. Wis actively lied about when the day was ending to make it seem like swinging the vote was less likely.

@Wisdom, what do you have to say to this?

but why didn’t anyone correct him then? it’s just really stupid to lie about something like this.