Micro 1039: The Coalition [game over!]

[ProHawk]

I don't think I have history playing with any of you except MBot...

Can someone explain to me why voting is not advised?

Also agree with the logic from mc ester, re: how scum-Galron might have acted in that scenario.

My plan was to scum-hunt for about 10 days, then create the town-bloc from the 10 days of interaction. Never played this setup before so if I'm missing something here feel free to point me in the right direction.

[ProHawk]

Haven't forgotten about the game but also haven't caught up. Will work on it tonight.

[ProHawk]

Getting a coalition locked in will give us a step in the right direction for POE.

I didn't realize there was such a rush to lock in a coalition without any data to make my choices.

These two statements seem strange together for me... I think it's because the first statement assumes that there will be scum in the coalition, and that getting a coalition is a priority. The second making the coalition seem not as important?

[ProHawk]

VOTE: ProHawk

~ normal votes will be tracked during the coalition phase, despite it being impossible to achieve a yeet.
~ however, if a failed coalition is locked in, and there is currently a majority vote on someone, that player will be yeeted immediately.

We'll be fine. Just unvote before coalition deadline or...actually form a coalition by deadline.

I think I know what you're doing here...

But in lieu of making an ass out of you and me, I'll just ask.

List the reasons here please?

[ProHawk]

Hey Andante and Prohawk wanna coalition together? The very definition of the word - a temporary alliance of sorts, since it's obviously everyone randomly joining up based on random nothings. That's actually kind of concerning since there is zero actual conversations to have even gut reads. We still have 13 days left. Even those I know, I'm squinty eyed at until given a reason not to be. Would be kool to finally have a win, just saiyan.

Why? I have a feeling you were posting in jest reading the rest of the post?

[ProHawk]

I'm noticing ProHawk and Umlaut aren't in any coalitions.

What does that say for you exactly?

[ProHawk]

I don't think we're going to get that 5. It's so easy to slip quiet scum into coalitions. Dannflor ran a Purgatory game like this a while back - it was very difficult.

edit: I wish more people would vote

You don't think we are going to get a consensus on the coalition, or you don't think we will get an all town coalition?

[ProHawk]

I have a very hard time town-hunting, mostly because of trust issues. I'll work on forming a coalition, but it's going to take time.

[ProHawk]

I don't think we're going to get a coalition of 5 town because I usually draw associatives by who's willing to elim who - scum could be aiming for a...[pause: I just realized I may be playing this the wrong way] There's literally no long game if they don't get someone in the coalition (or stall the coalition past deadline).

I have never played a game of this design, or any similar so I can only go off of what I *think* scum would ideally do in this scenario, and I am heavily leaning towards them being more apt to coalition one of their own more so than try to distance them D1 because well if they don't get themselves or a partner in then they auto-lose. Ideal would likely be both in I think, but again haven't really run all of the scenarios properly yet at this time.

But yes, odds of a complete town block I think are fairly low.

[ProHawk]

Gut here:

HEAL: Looker

[ProHawk]

I don't think we're going to get a coalition of 5 town because I usually draw associatives by who's willing to elim who - scum could be aiming for a...[pause: I just realized I may be playing this the wrong way] There's literally no long game if they don't get someone in the coalition (or stall the coalition past deadline).

I have never played a game of this design, or any similar so I can only go off of what I *think* scum would ideally do in this scenario, and I am heavily leaning towards them being more apt to coalition one of their own more so than try to distance them D1 because well if they don't get themselves or a partner in then they auto-lose. Ideal would likely be both in I think, but again haven't really run all of the scenarios properly yet at this time.

But yes, odds of a complete town block I think are fairly low.

I've seen games with this setup 3 times, each time town has won on day 1 and scum has completely collapsed.
I suppose this setup somehow makes town bloc very hard? Which I guess makes sense.

Maybe I should go read them??

Did scum just sit around on their asses??

[ProHawk]

Is there anyone here who doesn't think Looker is town?

[ProHawk]

I'm a little enebriated to make decisions tonight, let me decide tomorrow

[ProHawk]

I don't buy this “too inebriated to post” nonsense.

Is this your way of claiming scum?

ISO'ing now.

[ProHawk]

If Looker isn't going to vote for himself.

HURT: looker

Why does this matter? or is AI to you?

[ProHawk]

So here's my theory. We don't really have a ton-ton of posts or content. I'm going to go off of the theory that maf...

1) Wants to *look* town
2) Needs to get into the coalition

Therefore:

Self-Healing accomplishes both of those things. If you're town, obviously the best play is to get yourself into the coalition as it's pro-win-con. Therefore in order to *claim* town as mafia, self-healing is a very easy way to do so. Secondly, if you're maf and don't make it into the coalition, and your partner doesn't then you lose. What's the easiest non-obvious way to get into a coalition? Self-Heal. Obviously town will also self-heal so it's a matter of trying to find those people that were using the self-heal as more of a town-tell. Mc Ester, Enchant, and T3 were three who immediately self-healed. T3 threw himself into a mix of three as such I would consider that more of a hiddenish self-heal. Enchant was a solo-self-heal first post. Mc Ester was also a solo-self-heal first post.

Andante - Town - Hasn't even come close to self-healing which doesn't fit the scum-win-con. Could be a long con, but doubtful.
Looker - Town-Feels - Has a strong presence, which isn't AI necessarily, but I like the vibes.
Umlaut - Likely town. Appears to be scum-hunting more than most.
MBot - Lost - Never played as maf before, so the lost could be related to that, however I think that she would be getting coached here, which her posts don't have that feel.
Galron - Middle of the Pack - I am concerned with the post implying that Looker may not be town because he isn't self-healing.
T3 - Hidden 1st Self-Heal
Enchant - 1st Self-Heal, Likely Maf
mc ester - 1st Self-Heal, Likely Maf

HEAL: Andante
HEAL: Umlaut
HEAL: MBot
HEAL: ProHawk

I'm good with me not being in the coalition should most people not town-read me which happens with much frequency.

[ProHawk]

Woah woah woah, who is sacrificing here?

I don't lose if I don't get into a coalition.

[ProHawk]

i dont get why looker's town but i'll accept it for now

HEAL: looker

mbot heal someone you said you wanna lock a coalition in heal someone (ya that post pings super hard)

VOTE: mc esther

Was this a random vote?

[ProHawk]

Oh yeah, another "I SACRIFICE MYSELF" for nothing, please continue.

I see your heals. Would love to hear your thoughts on mafia.

[ProHawk]

Woah woah woah, who is sacrificing here?

I don't lose if I don't get into a coalition.

You hurting chances for instawin.


I already argued about that so i disgerard all future appeals just don't expect me to have good opinion on you just for your "sacrifice" because it's just annoying and not helpful.

So I don't understand where this vitriol is coming from... I have myself in my coalition. Why do we need an insta-win? IF we get it, cool. Random chance of getting it? Low. Chance of us just plain not forming a coalition if mafia are competent? HIGH.

Why did you vote mc esther?

[ProHawk]

I already argued about that

Where was this?

[ProHawk]

Are we at the point of locking in a coalition though? Also he's not not self healing, he just removed himself

[ProHawk]

i really don't think self heaing is a scummy behavior.

You are indeed correct in your statement.

However consider the opposite... not self healing is anti-scum behavior.

[ProHawk]

Yes that is a scenario that I hadn't considered... The team aspect. However that only applies to midgame where you have a good idea of where you stand in the community at large. Early on you'll want to self-heal. My theory anyway, if I ever get time I'll go search out scum plays on these types of games to prove or disprove my hypothesis

[ProHawk]

Yes it's a theory. At least it gives me some substance to base my reads around. Obviously it's not infallible.

Enchants reaction to it was not good

[ProHawk]

Why would you not want to be in a coalition with your scum partner?

[ProHawk]

enchant's reaction wasnt great from a "keeping the thread chill" perspective, but i cant see scum in it. like, do you think theyre feigning their frustrations? t3 thinks youre plainly wrong too, why is he not scum?

Ever see scum caught for the wrong reasons?

[ProHawk]

Unless they hit one and go for outside the coalition next? Yes it increases the first chance of getting caught inside the coalition but then what?

[ProHawk]

have you caught enchant "for the wrong reasons" before? is this how they reacted? i really dont see it.

I haven't played with any of you except MBot before

[ProHawk]

Also, @ProHawk & Umlaut - I feel we would make a kick-ass scumteam.

I second this.

Can we chat about Enchant tho?

[ProHawk]

Are you intentionally trying to push my buttons?

Where are you from anyway? What's your first language?

[ProHawk]

Can we chat about Enchant tho?

Who do you suggest I replace them with?

You saw them just heal mcEster right?

[ProHawk]

Can we chat about Enchant tho?

Who do you suggest I replace them with?

MBot, or possibly Andante.

I could compromise with you on Galron

[ProHawk]

UNVOTE:
HEAL: Mc Esther

With mafia so blatantly revealing my reads going stale.

I have coalition.

Who is Mafia?

[ProHawk]

Look at Enchants trajectory and tell me it's town...

[ProHawk]

You and Bot.

How are we mafia?

[ProHawk]

We might as well just vote for people at this point, no one is going to come to a consensus.

VOTE: Enchant

[ProHawk]

I'm pretty sure no one is locked into a coalition until 5 of us heal exactly the same.

[ProHawk]

And the coalitions are looking even worse rofl

[ProHawk]

Not my first choice but I could compromise on Esther being town Bloc,

We can argue my theory post game.

Not interested in any coalition with Enchant in it

[ProHawk]

Okay, i kinda like this.

HURT: Everyone
HEAL: Galron, mc esther, Umlaut, Looker, T3

Who can't see the cognative dissonance here?

[ProHawk]

I don't care. I am town, and thus belong in coalition. You can't prove me otherwise.
My self-vote makes sense. Because i am town.

Then proceeds to create a coalition without themselves in it.

[ProHawk]

It's cognitive dissonance. I'm not talking about theory here

[ProHawk]

They threw a fucking hissy fit about me even MENTIONING being willing to not be in a coalition, hell even bringing in another game which they had NOT argued in this game yet implied that they did.

And then bam, okay I'll do it too. It was a lie, classic scum tell.

[ProHawk]

Too scum to be scum, mk got it.

[ProHawk]

"Hissy fit" is kind of vague. Was the point Enchant was asserting "I'm not giving you town credit for saying you're willing to not be coalitioned"? And was your counterpoint anything along the lines of "Me not willing to be coalitioned is alignment-indicative/not alignment-indicative"? Sorry, I'm not the best with communication.

You'll have to ask Enchant for why they reacted the way that they did. My point was that it's not against my win condition to not be in a coalition .

[ProHawk]

Being non genuine, hell yes

[ProHawk]

I don't look for associatives until you're confirmed scum kthx bye

[ProHawk]

I get the feeling Umlaut is heavy white-knighting here... we need a coalition like yesterday.

Mark my coalition for end-game analysis.

HURT: ALL

[ProHawk]

HEAL: mc esther, Umalut, Looker, Enchant, T3

VOTE: Enchant

[ProHawk]

whoops, meant to UNVOTE: Enchant

[ProHawk]

It's a shit coalition but hurry up and finish it so I can start scum-hunting again.

[ProHawk]

Well damn lol

[ProHawk]

Let's be scum together looker!

[ProHawk]

This game really needs hyper-active scum