Micro 1041: Geriatric F11 [Postgame]

Micro Games (9 players or fewer). Archived during the 2023 queue overhaul.
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Post Post #100 (ISO) » Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:30 am

Post by catboi »

Vote Count 1.03
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Dwlee99 (2):
Sleepless Assassin (0), Three (0)
joqiza (2):
Umlaut (2), mc esther (1)
mc esther (1):
Dwlee99 (0)
Andante (1):
Roadkill (0)
Three (1):
joqiza (4)
Not Voting (2):
Andante (1), Wh4t (0)


With 9 alive, it's 5 to eliminate.



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Post Post #101 (ISO) » Wed Jan 19, 2022 8:01 am

Post by joqiza »

Umlaut what you are saying with your analogy doesn't feel right to me because I wasn't really trying to catch Andante in a contradiction, I was trying to understand if it was plausible for her to believe what she purported to believe. To reframe your analogy fmpov, it would be like this:

Alice tells Bob, "Watch out while you're walking around outside today, there have been a lot of shark attacks in the area"
Bob asks, "When has there been a shark attack recently on land?"

After some consideration I figured Andante could fear being lolhammered in RVS from seeing lolhammer outside of RVS, and that wouldn't be that much of a logical leap, but at the time I just thought "Do you really think this is gonna happen now?"

Frankly I wasn't so much looking for her to actually put forward an example, I haven't even looked at the game she linked yet, I was just curious how she'd respond. I think I said what I was looking for in either direction earlier, but she kind of chose this third way which was over the top flaming all my posts and I'm still mixed in how I feel about it
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Post Post #102 (ISO) » Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:11 am

Post by Sleepless Assassin »

joqiza wrote: @SA what did I do to be your strongest TR
Your first few posts felt like you were trying to understand where people were coming from and then taking it a step further and working with them to make sure if they were town making genuine statements they were on a correct thought process. Examples:
1. Calling out Andante saying she's seen random hammers from town. It's an easy statement to make, but if she doesn't have examples of it, it might make her question whether it's something that could happen here
2.Questioning Dwelees stance on Andante. I like how you went in depth about there being multiple layers with not only whether she's correct but whether she actually believes she's correct because her perception is more important when it comes to getting a read on her in this case.
3. Asking me to explain my first two votes. I have been starting games this way intentionally lately to see who asks for more and get some conversation started. I liked that you asked.
4. The "bad" discussion. You're absolutely right that it can mean more than one thing, so getting people to commit to what they meant, while it may seem nitpicky, is helpful.

I actually like your line of questioning on Mcesther just now too. That vote stood out to me but I wasn't sure how to approach it. It felt like it was placed in a way that could sneak in unnoticed but I really haven't scumread the slot so far so maybe there's an explanation. Either way, I'm glad you asked and I'm looking forward to the answer. The Three vote interests me too. I'm curious what comes of that.
Umlaut wrote: 33 is explaining a read? You're reading Dwlee as scum for... being more concerned about the post limit than you? That's novel
No. There's context around that. The post being called fluff was basically me expanding on the discussion to say I didn't buy his explanation. Being so concerned over post count already seems off.
Umlaut wrote: 46 is pointless/fluffy because (1) explaining to Roadkill that he's scum is a fundamentally pointless exercise, and (2) it doesn't go anywhere, just sort of peters out with "I could see it as maybe opportunistic/scummy but also maybe not
It would be pointless if I knew he was scum, sure. But it's early and I'm not entirely confident and as I acknowledged a few times, my confidence even weakened after that point. So yes, I answered his question. A discussion can help me get a stronger read on him and it also helps him and others to read me if they know where my head is at. I was surprised you saw it as fluff because I was answering a question about a read. That's kind of how you play mafia lol. While I do make posts that aren't entirely game related and can be seen as fluff posts occasionally from time to time especially in slower games, I really don't think I have been doing that here.
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Post Post #103 (ISO) » Wed Jan 19, 2022 12:47 pm

Post by Andante »

I'm not even sure who I want to vote here tbh
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Post Post #104 (ISO) » Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:18 pm

Post by mc esther »

In post 97, joqiza wrote:Does this imply you found andante's posts convincing
i mean, i did quote it, yeah. on a reread, i couldve (perhaps, shouldve) got that same point out of umlaut's summary; but i didnt, seeing it stated directly and plainly is what made it click for me.
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Post Post #105 (ISO) » Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:19 pm

Post by catboi »

Prodding Wh4t
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Post Post #106 (ISO) » Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:28 pm

Post by Three »

In post 103, Andante wrote:I'm not even sure who I want to vote here tbh
When in doubt, vote to set up competing wagons.

Not a fan at all of Joqiza's random vote on me. The vote on me to see what would happen makes no sense if you're not going to make an actual push.
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Post Post #107 (ISO) » Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:50 pm

Post by mc esther »

? you seemed really damning on joqiza and put him at the bottom of your readslist, im surprised he's not your automatic vote? what's the hesitation, like, im assuming you have some reason to believe he might be town after all?
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Post Post #108 (ISO) » Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:51 pm

Post by mc esther »

im not sure it's clear that im replying to andante's post there. i am.
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Post Post #109 (ISO) » Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:11 pm

Post by catboi »

In post 105, catboi wrote:
Prodding Wh4t
Wh4t is being replaced.
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Post Post #110 (ISO) » Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:31 pm

Post by joqiza »

In post 78, Andante wrote:like there are definitely joq posts I looked at like "I really don't tr joq" and him being fascinated by me here feels like maf trying to take advantage of the fact I've put 0 effort into this. it's like "Hey look!! yall may not tr me, but andante over there? looking like a real good vote!" like, just chill, it's still D1, I was busy IRL, here now... thus I'll be working on reads. Umlaut town is something I feel good about though, also have only skimmed so far.
This is a misrep because I expressed my suspicion of Andante long before anyone outed any kind of read on me. Also, I fail to see how anyone actually reading the game critically could propose that this is what's happening when I basically made clear that I was waiting for her to come back rather than immediately condemning her. Asserting that someone has not towntold to you yet is not equivalent to calling them scum.
In post 79, Andante wrote: 2/10 - doing 1 post per person I think, just gotta figure stuff out

wh4t has less content than me?? an rvs vote + this?? It genuinely doesn't feel like there's any effort even here, like "you said something was bad? bad isn't a reason to SR, what about it is bad" that's kinda the vibe I get, 4 TRs and no reason for any? "I'm on my phone so I cant" like, you could give post numbers "I liked post 21 from SA" or whatever, like, yes I know we have limited postcount, but it's not an excuse to not give reasonings for reads, - just realized joq said the "bad part" I hated, so like, are you agreeing that joq had the bad post?? either way, for this being your ONLY post of anything. this is terrible, looks like maf posting once a day to avoid prods.
If you're calling 4 people town, I want something, or an immediate followup. "I'll explain later" ok, it's a new day now and still 0 explanation.
I actually kind of agree / like this post, although it feels hasty.
In post 83, Andante wrote:4/10
has the highest postcount here - that alone means nothing, but I did notice that

ok, most of these posts are saying nothing, like you're all "go show me where town lolhammers" like what? do you want me to waste posts on that? waste time talking about something that barely applies here? I've had plenty of games recently, E-1's just got yeeted cause why not? and honestly, I'd probably yeet an e-1 for lols, depends, but that's besides the point.
It is absurd that you phrase this as "wasting posts" when, as you ended up doing, you can just link the game along with another post. Given that Andante did eventually link me a game I will forgive the initial deflection here.
In post 83, Andante wrote:then in you go on to talk about whatever lolhammer related thing, that again, REALLY doesn't matter here
Rereading this again makes me lean wolf on it because she's trying to characterize my request as something out of the ordinary. I feel my request was reasonable and this feels like it could be gaslighting.
In post 83, Andante wrote: is asking a meaningless question, feels like you're just trying to look busy, like I don't get the point of it
When I look at my question here I think it's actually quite a good one. Esther's was not at all straightforward, and as I look at your post here, I actually get the sense that you read my with my ISO open without any regard for what esther's post actually was and whether it made sense for me to ask that when I did. It's true mafia often ask questions just to look busy, but to call it meaningless is wrong... we derived meaning from esther's response in . I think if you were considering my alignment genuinely, you would have included some reference to here.
In post 83, Andante wrote: is all "the word bad can be used so many ways!!" like, an essay over using the word bad? how is that even relevant? who cares? you're the only one caring/trying to make a thing out of it
No real comment here.
In post 83, Andante wrote: yet another post telling me to link games, I'm not reading my past games, but there has definitely been speed hammers where town and maf hammered an e-1 like, a full DAY lasting a few hours? yeah.
See above re: initial deflection.
In post 83, Andante wrote: 62 "Meh whatever. I'm thinking about it more and getting after people on language use is pointless. Y'all can talk how you want to talk." wow. pointless to go after how people talk? who'd have guessed?
Still don't know what mindset is required to post a comment like this. It's pretty hard not to see this as an attempt to belittle my concerns / make me look ridiculous in order to discredit my suspicion of her.
In post 83, Andante wrote: 64 "I really need Andante to come back. My train of thought is unresolved there and I feel like everything will click once I get a read on her." Is this to just buy you time to actually put any effort into this? "Oh I don't have to try till she shows up and links games" like, I'm pretty sure Dwlee was there for turbo mode game, and you're all " they ain't partners"
I still have no idea what the Dwlee turbo mode game comment here means, and it's weird to me that she typed this up and posted it as if I would have any kind of understanding as to how whatever she is talking about should influence a teamread on them.
In post 83, Andante wrote: so that is the entirety of joqiza's ISO, and I don't like it, most posts here, and wh4t put more effort into the actual game... wh4t gave "reads" there is NOTHING of that sort in joqiza's ISO, joqiza probably maf
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Post Post #111 (ISO) » Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:38 pm

Post by Roadkill »

busy today -- will catch up tomorrow, though:
In post 110, joqiza wrote:I still have no idea what the Dwlee turbo mode game comment here means, and it's weird to me that she typed this up and posted it as if I would have any kind of understanding as to how whatever she is talking about should influence a teamread on them.
isn't using weird here the same as using bad? :twisted:
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Post Post #112 (ISO) » Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:44 pm

Post by joqiza »

Well, I did add "to me." That clarifies that it's my perspective rather than an objective truth. (The idea is I acknowledge/take ownership of my misreads and don't blame others for not towntelling in the way I expect them to.)

But I mean, yes. I do it all the time and I'm a hypocrite. I was cursing myself for getting on my high horse earlier today because I sorta just want to get toxic.

I guess it's the effort that counts? :P
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Post Post #113 (ISO) » Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:55 pm

Post by joqiza »

In post 85, Andante wrote:5/10

I wouldn't necessarily say mc esther's ISO is bad, but it's also not great, first half of screams maf, but 2nd half I can see town saying and actually kinda like. I can see being town that just realized "oh wait I was wrong in that thinking" I've definitely had arguments like that where I go "wait it's not how I thought?"

I'd like to just see more in general from mc esther, I know overall it's a lower postcount situation, but still, not a whole lot given for TRs/SRs on people, voting wh4t without saying why? like, as I mentioned earlier about someone, a simple reason is good enough. "I'm voting wh4t now cause they're not talking" ok cool, a reason is better than no reason.

overall - need more from mc, basically agreeing exactly with from Three
Why does the first half of "scream" maf to you? That part of the post seemed fine to me. I think I agree with your take on . Note this is mc esther's response to the post that Andante accused of being a meaningless question. Rest here seems okay to me.
In post 87, Andante wrote:6/10

LOL I love the Dwlee/Roadkill stuff, it honestly feels like something I'd do as town, like, none of that feels forced, it's like a natural "haha got you both, vote your partner" whether or not it was a serious sr doesn't matter, it feels like something more likely to come from town. 31 is awesome the reasoning feels like genuine town to me, not maf stuck in a "oh no. must explain what I said. uhhh" only exception to me loving 31 is if joq and you are partners, cause it's either a town response, or maf talking to a partner, with 0 fear of being SRed for reasons. - which is awesome news that I don't tr joq. making life so much easier!

rest of your ISO is alright. it's like, if joq is town, I have no doubt you're town.if joq is maf, you could be town or maf. So I guess I'll go with town lean here, not as strong of a TR as Umlaut,Three, and mc esther might be above you, or yall are equal right now, thinking about it, I'm a tad paranoid of Sleepless/joq team, but I'm sure as there's more content, I'll be ok with a TR or I'll SR you, I need either more from you, or just need to let time go by and see

63 is "Umlaut, how is explaining my reads on Dwelee and Roadkill fluffy? Also your reads are about opposite mine so... yeah. This game could be awkward."
like, you're acknowledging opposite reads? you don't want to try and explain why a sr of umlaut is town? or why an umlaut tr is maf? instead of just calling it awkward, you could work with umlaut? just an idea. another perspective can sometimes help with reading people. Actually, this post is just telling me I need to revisit my read here later, we're gonna go withSleepless not town, but I'm also not entirely sold on Sleepless maf yet, so just in the middle, definitely want more in terms of content
I guess I don't really have a problem with anything here. The conditional TR of sleepless is a bit of a complex thought, actually. This is the first post where Andante seems to go back and forth at all on my alignment.
In post 88, Andante wrote:7/10 LOL ok, I have an ISO pulled up, and I type, I've realized not all my posts seem super clear with who I'm talking about. each person has their own post, and no I'm not concerned about post count, burn 8 catching up/making my thoughts clear on each person, leaves with 2 left, and there's 10 more soon

~ This post is on Dwlee (see, super clear! post before this was Sleepless) ~
lol Dwlee trying to pocket me I see... also if you know pony? idk you XD (maybe I do... idk lol)

I like 21!! it's like, kinda sticking up for me when I wasn't here "yeah it's not AI" like, thank you!! lol me getting hammered there was a genuine concern, cause I feel like I'm definitely the kind of person to get lolhammered
ok, thoughts on dwlee!
32 good reaction to the "bus your partner" also, did you just call out a bad read on you from Sleepless? like a forced read from sleepless? (ughh my brain doesn't work in ISO mode like this, but it's the easiest way to catch up.. Something there with Sleepless? who knows??)
Something caught my eye here. Let me get this straight: you're saying that upon your return to thread, your method of catching up was to ISO slots one by one.

Instead of... just reading the 5 pages of the game?

WTF?
In post 87, Andante wrote:
"My post was in reference to the fact that we only get 10 posts per day, but someone has to be the first to use one to get the ball rolling onto something. " like yeah, I think it was fin, even if it was a wagon on me, like, someone has to do something, and I fully believe maf was more likely to just blindly sheep a wagon than start one

My response to 38: Same. thus I signed up for this to litrerally just to show yall I can play off 10 posts a day instead of 100 lol

51 -LOL yeah! roadkill brings up a great point!! Why no wild spam this game?? suspicious.

57 are good takes, and the way you said them, you're not like trying to go "HEY WORLD HERE'S REAS!! TR ME!!" just a casual "thinking this"

Response to 74- what do you mean no memes?

uh yeah, so Dwlee is probably town, town lean, like, they're solving, but not solving for the purpose of being TRed (I think that makes sense) like, maf cares about appearance or coasts, there's no in between ever, So far my reads are looking like:
Town to Scum:
Three/Umlaut - tied for towniest
Dwlee
mc esther
Sleepless
Joqiza
and I need more from wh4t before I put them anywhere, I'm not putting someone in a reads list off 1 post
I'm pretty suspicious of this read on Dwlee because I don't think Dwlee has been particularly towny. I think he has been more null and I'm not sure I believe how Andante is taking his posts here and reaching the conclusion that he's one of the towniest, unless she's just particularly partial to his defense of her. I think this could be a pocket attempt.
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Post Post #114 (ISO) » Wed Jan 19, 2022 4:35 pm

Post by joqiza »

I don't have a line-by-line breakdown of . There's nothing in there that strikes me too much, I mostly just think it's a whole lot of words that results in basically a nothing-read.

Last thing I will note is that I did read Andante's linked game. Hammer as referenced occurs here: viewtopic.php?p=13176390#p13176390. Not sure if anyone other than me even gave a shit about that. I don't even particularly care anymore as it feels like there are more AI things available.

I'm going to

VOTE: Andante

at least pending a response, because, I struggle to interpret a lot of these posts as town. One thing that I'm almost certain of now is that Andante did not read the game when she returned to thread, instead she started opening up ISO's one-by-one and started doing her write-ups on slots. I think this based on her own comments directly, and just a general sense I had that she's unaware of context (i.e., calling my question to esther meaningless, while deriving a read from esther's response to that same question.)

This method of reading itself is not necessarily something a villager couldn't do, but it's a strange choice to make in such a short game, and feels indicative of a wolf forcing content by checking off the ISO's one-by-one.

The reason I waited a bit to go through these posts is because I wanted to make a response that wasn't based on emotion/partiality.

I do have some reservations. One is that Andante's sudden string of posting demonstrated a lot of energy which did feel a bit towny to me while it was being delivered. The second is that I wonder if Andante is spewed town by the threadstate, as Dwlee/Three (and Umlaut, I should note, though I read him as uninformed), and indirectly mc esther, have essentially defended her posts or sided with her. I am encountering a sort of resistance that, in my experience, has not signalled d1 wolf flip.

Regardless, her posts feel
bad
enough that I'm happy voting here.
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Post Post #115 (ISO) » Wed Jan 19, 2022 5:44 pm

Post by mc esther »

do you usually pbp someone so comprehensively just for scumreading you? idk, "comprehensively" is the wrong word because you no-commented about half of it, but the point is that you quoted (all of? a huge portion of?) a scumread just to say "no im not" and then omgus (okay, "omgus" is kinda uncharitable here, but i think your case is overall very unconvincing). i'll admit that i want to see an answer to "why did she evaluate a question she got information from as non-useful?"; overall though, your posts seem, idk, kinda overblown as a response to an [imo] thoroughly ordinary (if a little long and questionably-structured) scumread.
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Post Post #116 (ISO) » Wed Jan 19, 2022 6:01 pm

Post by Dwlee99 »

Andante has zero reason to tryhard like that given gamestate if scum. Don't understand the vote there at all
I prefer they, thanks :)
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Post Post #117 (ISO) » Thu Jan 20, 2022 2:18 am

Post by joqiza »

In post 115, mc esther wrote:do you usually pbp someone so comprehensively just for scumreading you? idk, "comprehensively" is the wrong word because you no-commented about half of it, but the point is that you quoted (all of? a huge portion of?) a scumread just to say "no im not" and then omgus (okay, "omgus" is kinda uncharitable here, but i think your case is overall very unconvincing). i'll admit that i want to see an answer to "why did she evaluate a question she got information from as non-useful?"; overall though, your posts seem, idk, kinda overblown as a response to an [imo] thoroughly ordinary (if a little long and questionably-structured) scumread.
Very dismissive post tbh.

I went through all her posts and tried to break them down because I found parsing her posts pretty difficult. Either she is just thoughtspamming as town or she is writing a gish gallop as a wolf. Either way it poorly formatted and I had to convert it into something easier for my brain.

The other thing is that she is going through ISO's and referencing people's posts, so it's useful to me to break down her lines like I did so that I could open up the posts she is referencing and try to determine if it makes sense for her to believe what she's posting based on what she's reading.

I suspect no one else actually read her posts closely.
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Post Post #118 (ISO) » Thu Jan 20, 2022 2:20 am

Post by joqiza »

In post 116, Dwlee99 wrote:Andante has zero reason to tryhard like that given gamestate if scum. Don't understand the vote there at all
I'm not saying you're wrong, but I don't understand this. What was the "given game state" and why wouldn't scum try-hard in it?
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Post Post #119 (ISO) » Thu Jan 20, 2022 2:42 am

Post by Dwlee99 »

I thought I still had more votes than I did when she started, this is less strong. I was thinking I still had 3 or 4 votes when she started, but I think we had tied wagons and there actually is incentives there. I still want to townread the effort but as I said less strong
I prefer they, thanks :)
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Post Post #120 (ISO) » Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:14 am

Post by mc esther »

i'd read andante more closely if she linked yeah, but i'll be real, i dont even read umlaut's posts that closely. and anything with multiquotes gets the barest skim unless it's very cleanly structured and the quotes are snipped for relevance.
In post 114, joqiza wrote:I am encountering a sort of resistance that, in my experience, has not signalled d1 wolf flip.
i dont think i understand what this means. the most obvious reading is that town tends not to eliminate maf d1 when the thread disagrees with you, but im almost certain that's not the intent. am i understanding the meaning of "resistance"? is there something specific about andante or her playstyle that's relevant to your meaning?
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Post Post #121 (ISO) » Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:49 am

Post by joqiza »

To respond to :

I'm in a position right now where I'm pushing a scumread and getting absolutely no traction. Perhaps contrary to popular belief I do not see this as a good signal. From my perspective all the points I'm bringing up are being ignored and Andante is being defended for reasons I don't think are particularly AI.

There are two universes in which this could occur. In the universe where she's a wolf, she has at most one wolf partner to defend her; in this universe there are multiple villagers who are just completely blind to her scumminess. The other universe is the one where she's town and in this one there are two wolves who could take the position to defend her, my scumread is based on my own flawed perception, and there are villagers defending her because they're picking up on the town notes that I'm unable to see. When I compare the two universes I need to ask myself the question, "Do I really think I'm smarter than everyone else?" And the answer right now is, not really, no.

I've correctly tunneled a deepwolf against thread consensus before, but in those situations I've been very, very confident that said person would flip red and this is not the case yet.

My vote here is far from toothless though because this kind of thread state read is only one thing I'm considering and I have enough problems with her posts that currently outweigh it. I want to see what her answer is to what I brought up.

To respond to : I'd like to townread the effort, too. It's strange to me that your response to my case is simply that you "Don't understand the vote." If you are town I'd expect you to be trying to parse my motivations and your response is as if I placed down a naked vote without further clarification. What is your read on my motivations? And do you have a response to the specific points I brought up about her?
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Post Post #122 (ISO) » Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:35 am

Post by Andante »

yoooo what?? I know you're like my strongest sr joqiza but I'm just confused why you like wanna 1v1 me instead of help with reads on wh4t, mc,sleepless,roadkill
I'm honestly not even sure how I wanna respond to all that?
so you're saying to catch up I should've just read through? if I ISO everyone, I know exactly what people's contributions look like, whereas if I just read through, I'd have 100% missed wh4t's stuff
I'm just trying to figure out if you genuinely sr me as town, or if you're maf pushing me since you've been tunneling me all game, like, assume for 1 second I'm town, who is my partner? Want to just help me find them?
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Post Post #123 (ISO) » Thu Jan 20, 2022 6:46 am

Post by Umlaut »

In post 107, mc esther wrote:? you seemed really damning on joqiza and put him at the bottom of your readslist, im surprised he's not your automatic vote? what's the hesitation, like, im assuming you have some reason to believe he might be town after all?
I was thinking the same thing.
In post 113, joqiza wrote:Something caught my eye here. Let me get this straight: you're saying that upon your return to thread, your method of catching up was to ISO slots one by one.

Instead of... just reading the 5 pages of the game?

WTF?
I don't think this is actually that strange (I did pretty much that to form reads on the players in my "that leaves..." category in my earlier post) but even if it were strange, how is it alignment-indicative?
In post 116, Dwlee99 wrote:Andante has zero reason to tryhard like that given gamestate if scum. Don't understand the vote there at all
Agree. Actually I guess I agree with Dwlee more than Dwlee does since they sort of walked this back in . I guess not
zero
reason to tryhard as scum but I fail to see how it helps advance a scum agenda to be so unnecessarily thorough.
In post 121, joqiza wrote:I'm in a position right now where I'm pushing a scumread and getting absolutely no traction. Perhaps contrary to popular belief I do not see this as a good signal. From my perspective all the points I'm bringing up are being ignored and Andante is being defended for reasons I don't think are particularly AI.

There are two universes in which this could occur. In the universe where she's a wolf, she has at most one wolf partner to defend her; in this universe there are multiple villagers who are just completely blind to her scumminess. The other universe is the one where she's town and in this one there are two wolves who could take the position to defend her, my scumread is based on my own flawed perception, and there are villagers defending her because they're picking up on the town notes that I'm unable to see. When I compare the two universes I need to ask myself the question, "Do I really think I'm smarter than everyone else?" And the answer right now is, not really, no.
So what I'm getting from this is... you think there is likely scum defending Andante in the event that she's town? I can buy that. Whom do you have in mind particularly?
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Post Post #124 (ISO) » Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:17 am

Post by joqiza »

@Andante

Asking for my reads on the other slots is a fair ask so I will do so. If you're town I am begging you to give the game at least one chronological readthrough or skim when you catch up. I have nothing against you ISOing but it feels like you are picking out individual posts without any idea of the context they exist in.

Also, as for responding, it would help if you respond to the specific questions I asked you. My reads on the rest of the game are as follows. (You asked for it so here comes the spam.)

~

First of all the two slots I'd put as town are
Umlaut
and
Roadkill
. Aka if a bookmaker were to offer me odds at rand, I'd bet some money on them being town. But not an enormous amount. Of those two,
Umlaut
is my strongest TR by far. His posts demonstrate he's both paying close attention to the game and thinking critically about it. His read on Dwlee in , the way he considered my posts there, and the analogy he provided in , just really feels like town thought to me. It would not, like, absolutely shatter my universe for him to be scum, but if he is we are all fucked since he's already capable at playing at a level at which he won't get caught. I can go into more detail if needed, but it's somewhat hard for me to articulate, and it seems like a consensus read anyway.

Roadkill
is my other townread. This one isn't as strong but I noticed he is paying incredibly close attention to the game as well. For example, in he pointed out that Umlaut has sort of parroted other arguments in thread, which is something I also noticed. His take on was the exact same as mine, too, because he didn't necessarily see it as a scumtell but more as something
curious
. His tone in general feels inquisitive in a towny way. He has fallen off a bit but promised to catch up today.

So, starting with a base of those two slots, we can try to reason out who is scum in a universe where we are both town. You asked me to think of it as finding your partners, but that won't necessarily work for me. For example, if you were to flip red, one of your potential partners might be Sleepless Assassin, because of the post where you said you'd have no doubt that he's town if I flip town. That seems like an ideal if possibly too blatant way to lim a townie and townread a partner. However, that connection only holds if you're red.

The other thing is that there is a very specific gamestate present if you're town. Although I've made it clear now that I'm still considering, I think at first it might seem that I'm very locked into my scumread. And from you, it would certainly appear the case that you were committed to scumreading me. So mafia will be playing around that accordingly and using the TvT as a vehicle to get through today, and possibly tomorrow. I've been keeping my eyes open and analyzing accordingly.

~

First is
mc esther.
I thought her vote on might be opportunistic, given I didn't think your case was convincing. On the other hand, I could see the response just coming because, she started TRing you, and given the context you being town automatically raises my scum equity. I'm not really sure yet. I've looked some of her posts because they feel like she is being honest about her process, and in posts like she says things that are basically like, "it just felt that way to me" and I do kind of intuit how she could feel that way. I think that is difficult to fake as maf and have it actually hit right. I also like that she questioned my resistance read in because this makes sense for her specifically to question, given the way she was reading resistance earlier in the game. So, this slot could be town.

Next is
Sleepless Assassin
. Frankly I am inclined to this slot because he defended me in and I would love to believe that this is just town with a good read on me. However, realistically, I'm not sure that anything precludes that from being a pocket. Looking at his other posts I'm mixed. One thing that was felt weird to me at the time was the fact that after our discussion about town not really lolhammering, he went ahead and scumread Roadkill for the E-1 thing without really seeming to directly reference the conversation we just had. So this is contrarian, but I'm not sure if it's in a towny way or scummy way. I guess I don't know. His early reasoning on both Dwlee and Roadkill felt and still feels flimsy, but it was also early day 1. I think I'm not really townreading this slot, but I do want it to be town. I also kinda think mafia would just angle a TvT to get me limmed rather than knight for me but w/e.

Dwlee
kinda sus because he just seems to be slapping the TR on you without really digging into why or where a push from you is happening. I'm referring to , , and . was particularly eyebrow-raising to me because you hadn't posted at all yet so he'd just gone from saying one line from you is NAI to saying you were towny without really clarifying. That all said, as dumb as it is I like how he said "kinda townie" in because it feels like he is kind of sheepish in saying it but feels the need to say it anyway, which would feel like a thing a villager would do. IDFK this dude needs to make their thoughts clear.

Wh3t
is just wildcard slot to me rn, first glance was that I thought he was being a contrarian asshole to me and I townread it, second glance was whatever those four townreads need to be explained. Now I'm just waiting on the replacement.

Three
I don't think is particularly scummy from just his own posts but I'm suspicious of how he's seemed to stay out of the conflict between our slots entirely. He is confirmed to be here due to so he should have a stance on your alignment and mine by this point. He is saying some of the right things at the right time for me, such as TR'ing Umlaut and Roadkill when I did, but I don't vibe with all his reasoning. I.e. he ostensibly TR's Roadkill for pushing us out of RVS which seems... IDK actually as I type this it seems w/e. This slot is where I'd expect a wolf to be in a TvT but that's circumstantial and it might even just be obvious town, in which case I will probably get lambasted in every direction for daring to SR it and then I will know.

~

Tried to format this as best I could, I know it's a lot. I'll have a bit more time this evening when I get back from work.
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