Micro 1054 || Fuzzy Friends Coalition || Game Over!

[Not Known 15]

HEAL: skitter30
VOTE: aristeia

[Not Known 15]

Dunno. It feels weird here so i'm noting that

and @dats, again, as i think i said this already. Its not how long the flirting went on for, or how much time there was in between flirting interactions

Its the fact that your first few interactions felt weird and stilted, and not similar to what i've seen on the past. And i dont need fo know exactly what the source of 'offness' is to feel something is off
And i'm kinda baffled that you agree with me that your interactions feel off but that i'm scummy for noting / feeling that

Do you really think that ari would feel off here if this would be tvs? No, it's svs, that's what is happening.

[Not Known 15]

Don't put Aristeia and Datisi into a coalition and we'll win.

[Not Known 15]

anyway now that mala has posted my first shot at a coalition is

HEAL: fireisredsir
HEAL: skitter
HEAL: not known 15
HEAL: irrelephant
HEAL: malakittens

HEAL: fireisredsir
HEAL: skitter
HEAL: not known 15
HEAL: irrelephant
HEAL: malakittens

[Not Known 15]

I think menalque is probably town but is losing the race to towniness to others rn
I don't think aristeia/datisi is t/t but that's also a read that feels liable to do a complete 180 if/when someone else gets scummy.

Getting paranoid about skitter

Ari/datisi is S/S. That's all. It's the only thing able to throw off Ari off balance like that. I'm pretty sure of that.
But removing fire is no problem. I'll greenlight anything outside Ari/datisi.

[Not Known 15]

@nk15 why do you think they're svs and not svt?

Because ari would be mentally prepared to be scum vs. Datisi.
But not prepared to be scum with Datisi(which has a much lower chance, after all).

[Not Known 15]

HEAL: save the dragons
HEAL: skitter30
HEAL: aristeia
HEAL: menalque
HEAL: irrelephant

my work here is done*

*second try

HURT: all
This will fail. It contains aristeia.
HEAL: irrelephant
save the dragons
aristeia
menalque
skitter30

Sheeping the dragon.

Pedit: Shoshin was an unpopular player in many games, but I really got along her and learned a lot from her style of play, I think she more than most could see past smoke screens and read people's actual motivations. I understand she had a "scum IRL" moment in a game in the interim that I've been away, but I feel no shame channeling her better towngames

[Not Known 15]

Ummmm... that was not intentional. Datisi is right though. This looks like one of my scum meta. Probably because I think I already solved this.

No ari, no dats or I'll oppose it

[Not Known 15]

I’ll give a tl;dr of datisi/mala:

-early undeserved mutual heals
-skitter who’s played with ari and Datisi says they’re being weird and one is maybe scum
-ari seemed townier than Datisi att
-last time I played a full coalition game the team was [talkative and working to get into the coalition]+[lurking and aiming to stay out of it]

HEAL: Menalque
HEAL: Not Known 15
HEAL: Skitter30
HEAL: fireisredsir
HEAL: Irrelephant11
No mala.
Not the still extremely likely ari/datisi
No STD.

[Not Known 15]

I’ll give a tl;dr of datisi/mala:

-early undeserved mutual heals
-skitter who’s played with ari and Datisi says they’re being weird and one is maybe scum
-ari seemed townier than Datisi att
-last time I played a full coalition game the team was [talkative and working to get into the coalition]+[lurking and aiming to stay out of it]

Fwiw I’m now leaning Datisi/Aristeia t/t
Skitter if you reread their early game do you still think they’re being awkward in a scummy way

Petit: pick one what

NK15 can you play more please

Tomorrow. The game filled a bit faster then I thought it would. Still busy.

[Not Known 15]

Aristeia is still scum with Datisi. I have nothing to add.

[Not Known 15]

Aristeia is still scum with Datisi. I have nothing to add.

you said no std no mala can you clarify why if you're so sure it's ari/datisi

Hm? That was the preference of others. Not mine.

[Not Known 15]

I think you're scumreading irrel for being performative but I'm not sure if being performative is AI for him.

it's not exactly that i was scumreading him - like i definitely disliked the trajectory on me and thought it was +scum, don't get me wrong, but my overall idea was more that i don't get why he was such a popular townread for the majority on the game when i did not see *why*

Well, the last time this happened in a game we both were in irrelephant turned out to be scum. So if it isn't you and ari irrelephant is probably worth a look.

[Not Known 15]

yay shitty internet making me doublepost

I think you're scumreading irrel for being performative but I'm not sure if being performative is AI for him.

it's not exactly that i was scumreading him - like i definitely disliked the trajectory on me and thought it was +scum, don't get me wrong, but my overall idea was more that i don't get why he was such a popular townread for the majority on the game when i did not see *why*

Well, the last time this happened in a game we both were in irrelephant turned out to be scum. So if it isn't you and ari irrelephant is probably worth a look.

what are you talking about here?

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=75861
it's a bit old though.

[Not Known 15]

i was thinking maybe leave out mala/me/fire/std?

what do people think of that ?

Menalque
Not Known 15
Skitter30
Datisi
Irrelephant11

...no. Ari's partner is in that list(Likely Datisi). And her designated D1 lim, myself. No thanks.

[Not Known 15]

Nk why are u convinced its ari/dats again?

I have no credible explanation for their early interactions except SvS.
Yes, it's early, but I have not seen anything that would make me reconsider, and that idea by ari(putting me into that coalition) just smells.
Why does Ari not want to be on the coalition?
This is different from being not in a specific coalition.
But Ari doesn't want that at all. Mechanics tell you that this is a terrible idea. Actively removing yourself from that pool hurts win chances. And Ari knows mechanics.
Scum ari, however...
-isn't under immediate pressure as town seeks the scum on the list, and is free to manipulate the gamestate.
-gets more town on the list instead of being stuck with 2 scum in the list.

However, if the scumteam is ari/datisi, then me being off the list doesn't leave ari with much choice - she needs to get rid of me sooner than later, and somehow put me into a spot where I am a possible lim instead of a dangerous person from outside the list.
Scum needs to plan forward. A list with her and Datisi with me outside would fail, but leave her team in a terrible state.

[Not Known 15]

I guess I could be ok with irrel instead of STD if that's what fire wants.

my brain is mushy on those two

Why don't you want skitter/NK15/aristeia/Datisi/menalque, then?

[Not Known 15]

I have no credible explanation for their early interactions except SvS.
Yes, it's early,

It's not early
The only reason this setup is fair is because town can win by coalition,And time for coalition-ing is running out. If you’re town you’ve basically missed the one phase that contains most of town’s win equity. I forget the math but your play sucks and it’s a Big Deal (though change nothing if you’re scum)
It boggles my mind that you are clearly reading the thread but have no reads besides a single SvS from page 2.

The read is early. Not the gamestate.

[Not Known 15]

I have no credible explanation for their early interactions except SvS.
Yes, it's early,

It's not early
The only reason this setup is fair is because town can win by coalition,And time for coalition-ing is running out. If you’re town you’ve basically missed the one phase that contains most of town’s win equity. I forget the math but your play sucks and it’s a Big Deal (though change nothing if you’re scum)
It boggles my mind that you are clearly reading the thread but have no reads besides a single SvS from page 2.

A single SvS means that all others are automatically town.

[Not Known 15]

I have no credible explanation for their early interactions except SvS.
Yes, it's early, but I have not seen anything that would make me reconsider, and that idea by ari(putting me into that coalition) just smells.
Why does Ari not want to be on the coalition?
This is different from being not in a specific coalition.
But Ari doesn't want that at all. Mechanics tell you that this is a terrible idea. Actively removing yourself from that pool hurts win chances. And Ari knows mechanics.
Scum ari, however...
-isn't under immediate pressure as town seeks the scum on the list, and is free to manipulate the gamestate.
-gets more town on the list instead of being stuck with 2 scum in the list.

However, if the scumteam is ari/datisi, then me being off the list doesn't leave ari with much choice - she needs to get rid of me sooner than later, and somehow put me into a spot where I am a possible lim instead of a dangerous person from outside the list.
Scum needs to plan forward. A list with her and Datisi with me outside would fail, but leave her team in a terrible state

Ok a few things:
- from your pov why is tvt and tvs unlikely?
- why is bad for scum-ari for 2 scum to be in the coalition?
- dont understand why you being off the list is meaningufil in the ari-in/dats-in vs ari-out/dats-in universes

Like i guess i dont understand your point around the difference between 1 and 2 scum being in. Isnt 2 scum being in better?

1) Because the early interactions were awkward. There is a small chance that I am wrong but it is too small to allow me to hunt elsewhere. Ari is experienced. These awkward interactions are very unlikely to come from scum ari to town datisi, that was something ari should be prepared for. TvT no chance. How is that TvT?
2-3) Because when the coalition fails we will exclusively yeet in the coalition until we hit scum. With me off the list I am off the yeet list and more likely to be town. Hence, I have greater pushing potential and am not a potential mislim until one of them falls. And if one of them falls Day 1 then the other one falls too, obviously.

[Not Known 15]

2-3) Because when the coalition fails we will exclusively yeet in the coalition until we hit scum. With me off the list I am off the yeet list and more likely to be town. Hence, I have greater pushing potential and am not a potential mislim until one of them falls. And if one of them falls Day 1 then the other one falls too, obviously.

you're saying that if ari is scum with dats
she's keeping herself out and trying to put you in as a potential misflip?

Yes.

[Not Known 15]

NK15 can you do a readslist for me real quick
Like just every name in order, towniest to scummiest?
Surely even if you already know who scum is you also have thoughts on who has done the most pro-town or who has towntold the most?

Obviously no.
A game where my sole big townread was scum just finished... and I generally hunt scum, not town.

The list...

Not Known 15






Skitter30/Menalque/fireisredsir/Save the Dragons/Malakittens



Irrelephant11






Datisi


Aristeia

[Not Known 15]

It's the only thing able to throw off Ari off balance like that

could you please say in your own words what you mean by Ari being thrown of balance

NK15, I am far nicer and cuddlier than I once was but so help me god if you don’t answer this question and coalition fails I will eliminate you so fast that you don’t have time to say “wait what post was I ignoring”

Thrown off balance means that something unexpected happens and you are temporarily not playing normally because you don't get how to deal with that situation fast enough and/or are distracted.

[Not Known 15]

I feel like we are not progressing anymore. And there is no coalition in sight.

[Not Known 15]

I feel like we are not progressing anymore. And there is no coalition in sight.

Is this a white flag

No, I am just frustrated that we not only can't agree on leaving ari/dats out, we can't agree on any coalition.

[Not Known 15]

Nk is probably (?) town but i dont really want them in anyways

why

[Not Known 15]

i'm starting to think maybe i need to be okay with a coalition without me in it which makes me sad

Menalque - i wish he posted more, i wish he was around now, we'll see but i've felt good about the slot but i'm also nervous because i feel like it's the slot i might mostly likely be wrong about but i'm willing to trust people if they say menalque is good

Not Known 15 - more like not in a coalition 15. but probably town so maybe it's okay to have them in a coalition?

Skitter30 - skitter seems pure i really want them in the coalition. i've liked their emotion, their solviness, i think this is town

fireisredsir - i dunno!!!! i'm waffling so hard on this, is it town is it scum, i think i'd probably choose to leave him off just because i'm so unsure. i really like some of their recent posting, it seems town, and i liked their energy in the beginning, but i hated the way he scumread me, and i didn't really agree with his read on irrel either. i think ari had some good points about his early play.

Datisi - i'm not really afraid of the flirting and i hear ari's argument that datisi tr her so early if he always scum reads her that's a little concerning for a pocket attempt. but he seems engaged and is not trying to take control of the thread in a way that seems like he's trying to solve and justify his reads. i don't think he was trying to get into the coalition in a way that seems town, not in a way that seems like scum hiding to let their partner get in

Aristeia - again i'm not afraid of the flirting, maybe afraid isn't the right word. anyway she seems genuine and i'm sure she could fool me but i trust my read and i think she is town here.

Irrelephant11 - i really don't get any suspicion here i feel like he's trying to lead the game and i've mindmelded so much with his thought process. i want him in the coalition.

Save the Dragons - that's me!

Malakittens - i'm actually worried the increased posting comes from a scummy desperate hail mary to try and get into a coalition but maybe i'm reading it wrong, either way i'm too concerned to let her in. maybe it's a little omgusy but i'm also not convinced of her scumread of me

my preferred pool is me and 4 of {skitter, irrelephant, aristeia, datisi} which is 4 so i guess that's a coalition. i could do menalque if people really believe but i don't think i could do a coalition that strays too far from what i've said.

HURT: all
HEAL: me, ari, dats, irrel, std

i am ok with this, like ideal world for me would have me in for one of irrel/std and maaaaybe mena for the other one but eh its ok

You realize that there are - at least - two votes on this already?

[Not Known 15]

HURT: all
HEAL: datisi
HEAL: menalque
HEAL: skitter
HEAL: irrelephant
HEAL: aristeia

[Not Known 15]

Ok, finally.
VOTE: Aristeia

[Not Known 15]

Just wanna say that this is lowkey frustrating given that that was my like 3rd option and i didnt want ari/dats in it at all, and if we had to have them

i wanted std instead of mena

Ari/dats -> irrel ->

mena

for me

skitt, how do these two posts fit together?

That's actually a good question...

[Not Known 15]

I am currently re-reading things and will probably have more to say tomorrow.

[Not Known 15]

I've found another possible scumteam:
Menalque/Malakittens
These two players ignore each other completely(mena) or waffle on the other's alignment(Mala).

[Not Known 15]

i feel adrift and lost now

Why?

[Not Known 15]

We are flipping Aristeia. If Ari is town, we are flipping skitter. If Ari is scum, we flip Datisi. Does anyone disagree?

[Not Known 15]

We are flipping Aristeia. If Ari is town, we are flipping skitter. If Ari is scum, we flip Datisi. Does anyone disagree?

literally the entire game
for the third time: why did you hammer the coalition
why are you now bringing up mena/mala as a aviable option and then pushing the above?

I hammered the coalition because there was no way a coalition without ari/dats was passing, so I approved a coalition with ari/dats in it to increase the chances to yeet.
Because ari/dats is higher in my list and because, if ari is town, I can sheep her Day 2 instead.

[Not Known 15]

Ok, aristeia isn't going to happen, that much is clear.
I can't see anything else but the interaction so I have to just hope that I am wrong.
So...
fireisredsir looks like a person defending their partner. Combine this with ari's case that I just have to assume to come from town(because if ari is scum we already lost)...
VOTE: Skitter

[Not Known 15]

I was ready day 1 to bet the game on me/skitter/datisi/aristeia/std being town and I still am

What will you do if Menalque flips town?

[Not Known 15]

I was ready day 1 to bet the game on me/skitter/datisi/aristeia/std being town and I still am

What will you do if Menalque flips town?

What will you do if he flips red

Be happy
vote malakittens.

[Not Known 15]

nk15 is a lol-hammerer pls no e-1 vote

I am what?

[Not Known 15]

nk15 is a lol-hammerer pls no e-1 vote

I am what?

lol hammerer means you hammer things at e-1 with no warning

Sometimes, yes.

[Not Known 15]

VOTE: Menalque

E-1

!

[Not Known 15]

decided he wants to end the game as soon as possible

No. You didn't want to have mena put at E-1 due to risk of me quickhammering them. So I did it myself. Now we do have E-1. And mena needs to step up their game to avoid the lim.

[Not Known 15]

And if they are scum, well.... then that's even better:)

[Not Known 15]

I am not certain but I'm heading in the direction where I think that this may be the best play

need to do due diligence on other slots too, but I think that StD redding essentially solves the game?

If STD is scum, then me/mala/fire are all confirmed town.
From your perspective, that means one scum in Skitter30/Datisi/Aristeia/irrelephant.
Who is it?

[Not Known 15]

Fucked if I know

There’s a reason I want to do StD first

And that reason is...?

[Not Known 15]

NK15 why did you think it was Aristeia at the start of the game day?

I already said why. The reasons from Day 1.

[Not Known 15]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Irrelephant 11
No one except me so far has said that this game isn't just out of skitter's or ari's scumrange but also not outside of Irrelephant's scumrange. And with the recent trajectory I wonder if Mena is right and the team is STD/Irrelephant

[Not Known 15]

Case incoming.

[Not Known 15]

STD ->Irrelephant interactions:

Irrelephant11 - i really don't get any suspicion here i feel like he's trying to lead the game and i've mindmelded so much with his thought process. i want him in the coalition.

irrelephant i just don't think is scum. there's a small tiny teensy weensy part of me that is like "what if they're scum trying to pocket you" but i guess i don't really see the point so i'm not really indulging this theory

i can't do irrelephant without a really good case

STD is semi-conftown and being entirely ignored!

i felt this in my soul because i feel like i took effort to be less vibey and more analytically for the gamestate and i got mostly shot down and it made me feel small ngl so i appreciate you seeing me i know i'm being a little too emotional and need to step back but i did appreciate this so thank you

the fact you have the same scum read as i still means you're either pocketing me hard for no reason because i have no influence in this gamestate or we're kindred town and we may be onto something here so i'm thinking it's the latter

Irrelephant->STD interactions:

HEAL: Save the Dragons

Agree and noting here that I am kinda mindmelding with the dragons

I could get here. Why is malakittens more town than save the dragons? @NK15 and @fireisredsir

HURT: all

HEAL: irrelephant
save the dragons
aristeia
menalque
skitter30

Sheeping the dragon.

why

If it’s the latter, we can just agree now: neither you nor I will be in the coalition. If it’s the former, explain how I (the player who I would argue has done the most to move the game forward, but I digress) am scummier than malakittens, NK15, and your other scumread, Save the Dragons (who has the same reads as me but has done less to make the rest of the playerlist sortable).

Scummiest thing std has done is put himself in his coalitions

If dragons and I are both town, then I think it's easy to see how fire's actions could be very scum-motivated. The push needs to be hard and fast to get one or both of us out of the coalition

But if dragons is scum, fire has a good read (that either I or std is scum) and I'm just mad at him for thinking it might be me and struggling to get over myself and see that it's dragons

Fire I have to go make lunch but can you remind me your scumcase on std (can be quotes of your own posts, but also if there’s anything new) and I’ll write a towncase on him and we’ll see who, uh… idk, wins?

Pedit: why std/nk15 over nk15/menalque or nk15/skitter

@Fire I don’t think you’ll keep both me and std out of the coalition. Which of us do you scumread more and why?
(Towncasing std currently)

well i sure would like to! i kinda think that both of your most likely partners are each other

this is actually a major reason I townread std

i like 932

Just had a fun idea of sorting StD’s by pointing out key posts as scum or town posts and seeing what pops out.

18 is the first heal, on someone who had just done something lightly towny (fire) 101 is the start of a long list of times where StD healed someone and at the time I thought “yes that’s exactly right, that’s who’s towniest based on the game so far” Actually let me just add the rest of the list here as I go: 121, 170, 192,
[post]106 had what I felt were good points on datisi and fire and skitter, felt like real solving. I do remember being both impressed and surprised by the quick de-escalation of 117. Not sure that means anything AI though.
122 felt like the excited town vibe I expect from town in this setup. It’s like a fun race to gather four townies and go “yay I got 5” and that’s why I’ve played this setup so much and I felt that vibe in this post and I don’t think scum thinks to fake that?
125 and 139 seemed reasonable. I guess otoh they don’t really remove the possibility of those two scum pairings like I wish they did.
149, 152, 158 is a realistic sorting push on menalque, though I am a bit surprised at how it didn’t go anywhere. Like it started so strong and fizzled so fast. This led to some of my std/menalque paranoia later
170 was a strong townvibe post for me, *even more so* because he later updates the list twice. Aside from being funny, it’s also just kind of audacious for scum to be like “I did it!” “No I didn’t but now I did!” and I think that sort of flip flopping is towny. I suppose the fact std is always in his coalitions makes this less towny than I want it to be, though?
179 --> 182 felt real. 192 was a mindmeld for me.
292 I thought std townreading menalque for whiteknighting me was towny. Goes away if they’re s/s I guess, because I’m maybe just their target to pocket?? 300, 301 feel like a genuine effort to sort menalque though. Actually the overall trajectory on menalque seems real (313. I think.
Antacid jokes were funny, doesn’t make him town but does contrast with fire’s read that “scum std doesn’t want to be there” – it seemed like dragons wanted to hang in the thread, was having a good time. Jokes about the word “ping” too
432 was a good post
488 suggests nk/std team less likely
More back and forth with menalque around 500… meh not doing anything for me
616 was a mindmeld
I read 621 just now and thought “wait I literally thought I wrote that post. I remember writing that post. So mindmeld ig
694, 695 mindmeld. Like. I feel pretty darn confident std is town because if he’s scum I guess his plan was “somehow know everything irrelephant will think and often type it first”

I don’t have time to keep going right now, I wrote the below paragraph on and off while writing everything above. Enjoy this post it’s my Thursday Mafia Effort Post




I think everything about fire is now shouting town by play… except that I’m still scumreading the trajectory of slowly trying to replace me/std in the coalition. The one thing that feels like, starkly missing if he’s town is working harder to turn around the collective townread on me (because despite both his and my objections I’m showing up in most coalitions) or a reconsideration that since so many people are townreading me (including his townreads) I just might be town. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm is it skitter/mala or skitter/nk15 and she’s just playing as if she’s solo town, knowing she gets coalition’d in most realities, while her partner… doesn’t play?
Wait I haven’t cleared menalque either yet, probably should reread menalque before skitter. I’m doing so much work just on the chance it’s not NK/mala and that is… something.

@fire

i dunno if i agree because i've been pretty vocal about including both of us in the coalition and even if he's said it i don't think he's taken me out

I did offer to leave myself out of the coalition and my current coalition doesn’t include me so I get fire’s point. But I also think we’re both town and I would hammer a coalition with both of us

HURT: all
HEAL: fireisredsir
Save the dragons
Me
Aristeia

Town summary of std:
-having fun coalitioning (I think scum kinda dread it)
-seemingly not manipulating his way into the coalition, even when three people scumread him
-reads I agreed with
-townreading lots of townies, dangerous play for scum imo

Datisi who’s std’s partner if you’re not so sure he’s town?

StD <- I don’t see a world where scum and I have all the same thoughts for an entire phase, I think my townread is stronger than datisi’s “ehhh I don’t see it” read. See previous towncases

STD is semi-conftown and being entirely ignored!

STD is semi-conftown and being entirely ignored!

i felt this in my soul because i feel like i took effort to be less vibey and more analytically for the gamestate and i got mostly shot down and it made me feel small ngl so i appreciate you seeing me i know i'm being a little too emotional and need to step back but i did appreciate this so thank you

the fact you have the same scum read as i still means you're either pocketing me hard for no reason because i have no influence in this gamestate or we're kindred town and we may be onto something here so i'm thinking it's the latter

I would be really impressed if StD wrote me this post as scum. Like, really impressed.

But I'll hear you out, Menalque. If you're town and StD is scum, why do you think the last second swap happened to get you into the coalition? Do you think scum got what they wanted there or no?

You actually make some good points, though I also think you make some bad ones. Like a big part of your read seems to require the least charitable meaning of some of StD's words. But town do that sometimes, especially when OMGUS-ing, so like I said I'm willing to hear you out.

I'll feel real bad if StD is scum because I've really fought for him but also on second thought, not that bad, because it's not like anyone else was voting for a scumless coalition Day 1 either even if he is scum


pedit: I mean I'm not voting outside the coalition, not sure if anyone else will. And it's not like I'm even asking you to not scumread StD, just find his partner if you're so sure it's him

"if I were wrong on StD it could be that NK15 was hammering to try and make us look aligned"..... I'll let you rethink this one on your own time

"if I were wrong on StD it could be that NK15 was hammering to try and make us look aligned"..... I'll let you rethink this one on your own time

Oh actually I misread you, ignore this.

what about this post makes it so hard for StD to write as scum?

Nothing about it is "hard" to write as scum

sidenote: what is with everyone's obsession on MS with sorting people by "hard to do as scum" vs "easy to do as scum"? The same stuff is hard and easy for both alignments most of the time. We should all be sorting by "more likely to be a thing this person does if they're scum than if they're town" vs "more likely to be a thing this person does if they're town than if they're scum". I think it's very unlikely that scum!StD thinks to humbly thank me for amplifying his voice.

what do you mean last second swap? you mean the NK15 hammer? I think if that's what you mean it should be p much clearing for a me/NK15 team

It's very much not clearing for a you/NK15 team. You can say it's done to frame you, but even in doing so, you acknowledge that it makes you look bad. Which it does.

You still here?

Do you have any partners for StD that feel likely to you? I'll even accept "Irrel" as an answer if that's where you're at, I just want to hear you talk it out. Or you could discuss how Day 2 has gone if you'd rather. You're pretty important to sort right now, I guess is what I'm saying, and you can make that easier by doing more solving

I've not looked into these interactions in detail, but that's definitely the scumteam. These interactions are extremely partner-y.
STD is towning Irrelephant for shallow and evasive reasons and mostly ignores irrelephant.
Irrelephant is doing the reverse - flooding the thread with reasons to townread STD - but only after a trigger. Before post 910, when fire asks irrelephant to make a case on STD, both are acting nearly the same way, except that Irrelephant is also saying "sheeping Save The Dragons" once.
After this trigger, though, the interactions from irrelephant about STD flood the thread. But if we look into these frequent assertions of towniness these things stand out:
1.Why is there so much STD in irrelephants ISO? It completely dwarfs everything else.
2. The arguments are nearly all unconvincing, especially arguments that basically say "STD is town because I am", because if they are partners...

Conclusion:
STD has these classic partner interactions with irrelephant.
Irrelephant, triggered by a request to read STD, went into overdrive and completely over-interacted with STD to prevent being read as their partner. I really don't see why town would spend that much time on a townread.
Both townread each other to avoid their loss condition.... which is a possible plan for scum, and fits the rest of the play.
They are scum partners.

[Not Known 15]

I've not looked into these interactions in detail, but that's definitely the scumteam. These interactions are extremely partner-y.

I've not looked into these interactions in detail

definitely

uh

okay

huh, er that's just wrong.

[Not Known 15]

nk do you wanna talk about how during coalition forming you were dead set on one team and nothing in the world would make you reassess but then now you've proposed like uh... 5 different teams now or something? and keep jumping to a new one and disregarding whatever the previous one that you were convinced of was?

I was dead set on ari/dats but an ari yeet seems impossible so if it is that team we lost. So I can try to find different teams... and now that I looked at these interactions between STD/irrelephant I am no longer actually convinced that it is ari/dats.

[Not Known 15]

Okay self then

Why did you post this?

[Not Known 15]

waiting for bloodhail to catch up.

[Not Known 15]

Myself and Ari will probably have to be limmed after this. This leaves us with one more lim. Who?

[Not Known 15]

I have something to say later. Please don't rush any lim. We have enough time to discuss. Remember that scum was only caught very late into day 1.

[Not Known 15]

ok this might be a stupid read but

NK15 can only be scum imo with Datisi because NK15!scum loves to derptunnel his scum teammates.

I know I'm town and I think Dats is town so I guess that makes NK15 town.

it's a bad meta read wrapped in moonlogic I know :M

and, conveniently, a good push should datisi get yeeted.

but like if NK15 flipped scum I would definitely want to flip Dats as heartbreaking as that would be :[

Not happening.

My thoughts about Dats:

[The Cute Guy with Green Hair and an Adorable Hat]



I've played 8 games with Datisi, 1 game that he modded, and 1 game we've hydra'd together.

This would make game #9.

One thing that seems to always happen is that this adorable green haired man always manages to scumread me in some convoluted manner[without fail!] [even when he was mafia!] <he thought I was his traitor, he's cute I know>

So I was surprised to find that he figured out I was town relatively early this game; 138.

It's kind of what I want to happen - but it's also like "Wait a second is this too good to be true? How does Dats figure out your alignment that quickly? You're not like that obvtown yet - you were way more obvtown in other games and he was still scumreading you right up till you flipped town so like uh what's going on here"

Now that's a very toxic path of thought to go down for me because it puts into conflict two things I want

A: Dats reads me as town correctly.

B: I get ridiculously paranoid about Dats townreading me correctly.

and like I want him to get better at reading me and being right - I don't want him to think oh I have to fake paranoia or extend a thought process in dealing with her just to get her to townread me. Like I don't want to be needy and ridiculously difficult to make happy - that's not a good feeling.

So like I kind of just slotted him in as town because paranoid thoughts are bad for me and I'd rather think happy thoughts like "Dats is getting better at reading me and he is going to carry me to a win this game because he is amazing"


So I'm going to evaluate his gameplay on the basis of things that have nothing to do with me because I think it would be quite awful for me to scumread him for townreading me and it leads me down a bad rabbit hole. [Also I really like the feeling of being townread by Dats and I don't want him to not townread me in the future just because it makes me think he's pocketing me. I like being pocketed, I am human]


I like his thread presence - he feels like he actively wants to be here (yes I know it's not a very good way to read people but like compared to Spring Fling - I feel like he is a lot more proactive about being in the thread and actually interacting/solving people rather than just going through the motions)

I like his tone - he just feels comfortable and not at all like he's stressed (this is ironic because datisi's townstress is very obvtown and his paranoia is fun to read).

I like the trajectories he's following on each player - they kind of make sense and he takes turns and pays attention to details that I sometimes just skim over.

Lastly I really do like that he keeps trying to pull me into the coalition with him[not just because I want to flirt with him]

I think he knows I'm very hard to mis-eliminate so putting me into a coalition really is limiting his own mislim opportunities and making it harder for himself post-coalition failure and I'm not sure why he would want to do that? It really does feel like he wants a coalition that will work.

Maybe I'm just like super pocketed cuz I'm dumb but I really do want to believe he's town here :<

"Post a really convoluted post to cover up the real reason - TMI.

i was thinking maybe leave out mala/me/fire/std?

what do people think of that ?

THIS is perfect. For the scumteam of Ari/dats. It is not to any mechanics-knowing player aligned with the town. And Aristeia is good with mechanics.

gosh you see through my evil designs so quickly NK15

what am I going to do with you

When I call out the obvious... this is the response. I think this is actually true.


Moreover, the plan of Ari/dats - when they got their act together - should be clear by now - townreading each other and going by "I was pocketed" when found out.
It has one giant plus... it mostly avoids losing via coalition.
If you then factor in that they were, early, in a

very dangerous position

, with multiple people calling them S/T or S/S, they had

no other chance

but to townread each other to get out. Which they did.
What do we have later?

I know I was leaning towards voting for Dats coming into today and I wanted to sleep to think it over one last time and I woke up still feeling incredibly uncomfortable about the prospect of voting him out.

Nice story.

There are too many other posts to quote them all. But it is likely just ari.

The third lim is Malakittens(also known as Roden). If Aristeia is town, then

like the way she went from "don't trust dats/ari!!!!!! dont put them in the coaltion!!" to after coalition faillure "I think ari/dats are town" like is kind of weird to me

is probably pointing to the real scum.

Aristeia -> NK15 -> Roden should win the game.

Does anyone

disagree

with this plan?

[Not Known 15]

Nk15 why is it ari?

I think I already mentioned what might be the most convincing argument here:

i was thinking maybe leave out mala/me/fire/std?

what do people think of that ?

This. A team without Aristeia, with Datisi.
Now let's first look from scum!Ari's viewpoint.
Think for one moment what would have happened if this went through. I would have been the designated lim. One voice against dats/ari down.
Good for scum!Ari.
Dats gets limmed later. Mala/fire/std are all there to be mislimmed, potentially.
Again, good for scum!Ari
Ari is outside the wagon and can push more
Good for scum.
Now, let's look at town!Ari.
Ari is not on the coalition. The chances of the coalition failing increase.
Very bad for town.

Finally, let me show you that Ari does understand mechanics and give me an example for someone else, who has mechanic knowledge(Instructor Ryan aka Mathblade) spewing far more insane BS about mechanics:viewtopic.php?f=83&t=89351.

There is simply no good reason for town!Ari to openly advocate for this at that time. Ari was no longer someone who was very likely to be left out(unlike at the beginning).

[Not Known 15]

This is the wrong order. But...
Well, at least you will know I am town now.

And as confirmed town, I want you to do one thing.

Vote Aristeia tomorrow.

[Not Known 15]

I changed my mind, vote me out tomorrow if this is wrong.

No. Aristeia.

Do

not

vote anyone except Aristeia.
VOTE: Not Known 15