Micro 1054 || Fuzzy Friends Coalition || Game Over!

[Aristeia]

its so weird to me you asked me just last night who i thought was scum if irrel-mena is t-t and i said its probly dats-mala and then irrel gets rep'd and the new rep tells you the same thing and your paranoia of me goes up

like seriously?

if irrel is scum then the rep is literally mirroring my position which makes me not aligned with the rep.

if irrel is town then the rep came to the same conclusions as me independently which still makes me town

[fireisredsir]

mb fire's just right i dunno now :<

i'll be happy to sheep whatever you decide to skitter <3

brain feel mushy

also would prefer we get a decision in b4 we get 3 days on the clock.

is there anyone who should be there that isn't / do you strongly oppose to any of these?

I don't have any objections to that.

I think you probably have a better read on mena than I do.

for reference

here, at a point when we still think the whole day 1 is only 7 day deadline so we're in a bit of a hurry, she is willing to sheep skitter and pushing people to consolidate and skitter has skitt/mena/datisi/std/irrel as her preferred coalition

like this is why i said that ari could go in cause she would only be partners with people already in

i don't think there's any way she's partners with nk/mala

[skitter30]

sorry i'm not trying to be annoying >.>

i just feel like i'm going around and around and around in circles and i'm not getting clarity on anyone so i'm kinda collectively doubting all three of you
to various fluctuating levels

if irrel is scum then the rep is literally mirroring my position which makes me not aligned with the rep.

if irrel is town then the rep came to the same conclusions as me independently which still makes me town

but also i'm not sure this follows for me:
- don't see why bloodhail mimicking you makes you unaligned (in fact i can see a universe where he's your partner and saw taht and said that *because* you said that)
- coming to the same conclusions as you doesn't make you town either

~
@fire thanks, that's a valid point
rethinkign this i think it would be with dats (which is a lot of what's making me Nervous abt their interactions i suppose)

[Aristeia]

- don't see why bloodhail mimicking you makes you unaligned (in fact i can see a universe where he's your partner and saw taht and said that *because* you said that)

skitter

when you rep into a scum slot

and your goal is to survive

you mirror the thought process of a

townie

because

(1) it's a townie thought process
(2) you can peel that townie to your side

you do not mirror the thought process of your scum partner because

(1) it's a scum thought process
(2) you don't need to persuade your partner, your partner will side with you if its best for their win condition.

[fireisredsir]

im learning so much about how to play scum from these games

v educational

when i finally roll scum ill be so ready now, you'll never catch me

[Aristeia]

here's another thing

you never bother discrediting someone that you're poe scumreading who is attacking you and is likely to get flipped

because if you think they're scum

their scumread of you dies as soon as they flip scum

you only bother doing discred because you need to win the argument

[skitter30]

that didn't occur to me either >.>
ugh maybe you are town

i really am kinda lost here if it isn't bloodhail

[fireisredsir]

here's another thing

you never bother discrediting someone that you're poe scumreading who is attacking you and is likely to get flipped

because if you think they're scum

their scumread of you dies as soon as they flip scum

you only bother doing discred because you need to win the argument

ok wait you lost me on this one

who are the yous and theys as this applies to this game

[Aristeia]

datisi and blood hail on the last page

[skitter30]

dats = you
bloodhail = they?

i was also a little confused

[fireisredsir]

i feel like people still try to discredit and win arguments against people that they think are scum and are likely to flip all the time? especially if the flip is not like at all guaranteed

idk maybe im still not following

[Aristeia]

you don't need to discredit the argument against you if its coming from someone that you think is scum by POE[it's like a poe argument anyway]

just vote the guy off and when he flips scum the argument dies on its own.

[fireisredsir]

ok but what if he convinces enough people that you're scum and flips you instead

cause i think thats not out of the realm of possibility here

[Aristeia]

who r u even talking about

[fireisredsir]

aren't you saying that datisi doesn't have a reason to discredit bloodhail?? am i still not following

[Aristeia]

you think Datisi is going to flip me? I don't get it

[fireisredsir]

im just trying to understand what you're saying

i think its probably not very important so its not really a big deal lol but if its a significant point for you then it is not getting through at all

who are you saying is or isn't scum as a result of this point

[Aristeia]

Datisi!town doesn't need to discred BloodHail!scum because BloodHail!scum is going to flip scum.

Datisi only needs to discred BloodHail if bloodHail is going to flip town

[fireisredsir]

ok thank you, and im saying that datisi!town isn't necessarily sure that bloodhail is going to flip at all right now

like i think there's a world where the lim ends up on mena or even datisi today

and if datisi is town and thinks bloodhail is scum then wouldn't discrediting help prevent that?

[fireisredsir]

ok but what if he convinces enough people that you're scum and flips you instead

cause i think thats not out of the realm of possibility here

the "you" in this was continuing your usage of "you" to mean datisi and "he" to mean bloodhail, sorry for adding to the confusion lol

[bloodhail]

1522 outlines my current point against him and features pieces of my case from other posts
1513 is a rebuttal to his case against me which was in post 1484

okay so like

i dunno how to wrap my brain around this and explain this in a way that feels like i'm blowing you off

but i don't think stuff like him having disparate reads on you/my slot is inherently a scumtell, b/c people process the game in weird ways sometimes and someone can seem

off

despite having different takes

and him feeling like you weren't providing reasons against him is likely an ego thing rather than a scum thing where hes intentionally misrepresenting you - this is not inherently a towntell either i think he just hasn't been wanting to accept your read as valid regardless of alignment. (if that makes sense? i hope it does)

i get the same feeling looking at you aguing against his case on you - i think he's way off base on you but it looks more like someone who just doesn't understand how you play. and that can easily come from town.


you are not going to like this but to me it looks like an ego clash. i could, of course, be wrong - i make no claims to being brilliant at the game. im mainly just saying from my experience with mena this looks like town-him. maybe im wrong and hes playing in a way specifically to pocket the people who have played with him before, but i think a lot of what he has been saying this phase makes sense from the perspective of town who is very frustrated at being misread. and i think him gunning for you so strongly is very likely an indicator that its a real read he believes in and he wants listened to if he has to get flipped in this game.



idk if any of this is good substantive enough to provide an alternative perspective for you but i can try talking things over if you'd like - this is obviously a LOT for me to take in in a very short time period an i'm trying my bset. if i die today please try to keep my perspective in mind.

[skitter30]

@bloodhail why do u think scum-dats has been townreading mena so vociferously?
Also what do u think abt the fact that he gave v similar reasons to townread mena as u just did ... ?

Also @std a lot of what bloodhail said abt mena is similar to what i said on ur respectivr cases on each other last night

[bloodhail]

not sure what u mean by this?
i'm a little concerned that the read on me is somewhat flat and easy

not my fault you're an easy read lmao

dats-roden-nk15 with some paranoia on u

see: i think both roden and nk15 are explicitly less likely

because unless aristeia is pulling out a level 90 wifom card, she doesnt out that nk15 has a meta of borderline throwing as scum because then if she dies people always flip nk15??

and i also think she doesnt out that mala has severe scum burnout and can barely play it if shes teamed with mala - this isnt necessarily strong in and of itself, but mala reacted in a way that felt like she was legit annoyed because she doesnt like being seen as polarized and it didnt look partnery.


and if you think she's with me or datisi, then you should basically always flip one of us first rather than ari b/c we have more potential partners than ari

[fireisredsir]

bloodhail, do you think there's any merit to the argument that mena's cases aren't strong enough to justify his level of frustration/confidence?

wondering cause im not like super confident in it but it is kind of a sticking point for me atm

(references: 1794, 1796, and 1797 I talk about this, 1558, 1744, 1746, 1767 are examples of the kind of attitude i was talking about from him)

[bloodhail]

@bloodhail why do u think scum-dats has been townreading mena so vociferously?
Also what do u think abt the fact that he gave v similar reasons to townread mena as u just did ... ?

because mena is an omgussy boy and he doesnt want to get on his bad side. (that's how i played around mena as scum, lol)

the reasoning for mena-town is more or less accurate. that doesnt matter a ton to me. scum can give reasoning for townreads that is true and accurate because they have perfect info.