Micro 1059: Micro & Normal Stuff | GAME OVER

[Coral]

Okay, might as well

VOTE: Meg

[MegAzumarill]

Goodluck tomorrow

[Irrelephant11]

flip coming when I get home in a few hours

~watch this space~

[Irrelephant11]

Official Vote Count 3.FINAL

this pencil is a #2, and he bites his nails.

elimination

With 5 votes in play, it takes 3 to close without saving.

MegAzumarill

(3): Datisi, Ausuka, Coral <---- HAMMER

Coral

(1): scamper

Not Voting

(1): MegAzumarill

Deadline:

Night will end in

(expired on 2022-08-15 19:42:07).

Mod notes:

<3

[Irrelephant11]

Spoiler: MegAzumarill was...

Hi MegAzumarill! Welcome to Micro 1059: Micro & Normal Stuff! You are a

Town Backup Neighborizer.

You have the following active ability:
• Each Night, but only once a non-Backup Neighborizer has died, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, that player will be added to [REDACTED]. You have access to this PT at all times.

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

[Irrelephant11]

Ausuka was phased out during the night.

Spoiler: Ausuka was…

Hi Ausuka! Welcome to Micro 1059: Micro & Normal Stuff! You are a

Town Miller.

You have the following passive modifier:
• Cops who investigate you will receive a result as if you were mafia.

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

[Irrelephant11]

Official Vote Count 4.00

this spider is spinning a web, and spends a little too much time looking at her phone.

elimination

With 3 votes in play, it takes 2 to unsubscribe.

Everybody

(0): Nobody

Not Voting

(3): Coral, Datisi, scamper

Deadline:

(expired on 2022-08-18 20:10:15).

Mod notes:

<3

[scamper]

*sigh*

i just want to point out i had a game-winning poe on day 1 (coral/phoenix/dats/don)

i compromised on xayah because i was so strongly sure meg was town and didnt want to kill them and i was more iffy on xayah. that was my biggest mistake this game.

but i had found megs as town and couldnt save them

i was right that it didnt make sense for don+datisi+corals roles to all be town

so i'm a little bit frustrated rn...

[scamper]

anyway i was added to the hood, ill give the stuff in there a look over just to see if any of it is pertinent to solving but i think day 1 is *probably* the most important one

[Coral]

but i had found megs as town and couldnt save them

When did you ever try to save Meg? If you had found them as town, then why did you never make any sort of argument for why their play was towny?

The only thing I see is 1338 about their role, which is obviously not going to be convincing to anyone because nobody was arguing that the sole scum power was backup neighborizer. It doesn't feel like any serious effort was ever made to get people to understand why you thought Meg was town, so I don't understand why you have this sentiment now.

The only post I can find at all talking about why you townread Meg (after your argument with them, when you seemed to be going back and forth on if they were scum or not) is 1144 which is not a very convincing case either.

[scamper]

i literally was arguing for all of yesterday why i thought it was u and not megs and why your roles didnt make sense in terms of balance. ausuka didn't want to hear it, datisi didn't want to hear it, literally everyone else was tunneling meg. what are you expecting me to do, exactly?

[scamper]

i think you are scum that day. i write a massive case explaining why. dats and ausuka basically both go "nah" and say its megs. what else am i supposed to do?

[Coral]

I think it's understandable to not feel that strongly about pushing for your own reads over the reads that other people have. I feel that way often.

I think it's understandable to feel frustrated that someone you strongly townread was eliminated.

I don't think it makes sense to feel the latter alongside the former. And I don't think you did much of anything to convince anyone that Meg was town. Yes, you cased me. But Meg was the primary candidate for elimination for most of the day. You had plenty of opportunity to talk to the people that you thought were town (or in Ausuka's case, confirmed town) about

why

you believed Meg to be towny on play. You didn't do that. Maybe you thought that nobody would listen, maybe you thought that Meg had to be eliminated anyway. But in that case, I don't see why you would come in today talking about how you tried to save Meg and how you were so strongly sure that they were town. Where did you explain this? What posts did you make that were aimed at conving others that Meg was town and shouldn't be eliminated? If they wouldn't listen to your posts about me being scum, isn't it at least worth it to try a different approach and see if they will listen to your reasoning for Meg being town, if you felt that strongly that they were?

On the other hand, there is a lot of incentive for you as scum to not work too hard to convince people that Meg was town. You can let town eliminate them for you. They're not fighting back much. And you get to keep your progressions clean and just continue pushing me the next day while also acting like you had things right all along.

[scamper]

imo i have more incentive to keep meg alive as scum because in a f3 with me and meg i think scum!me wins that every time. but regardless that ultimately falls on my failure to be persuasive which isnt related to my alignment. frankly i was going to complain more but ausuka seemed upset so i gave up. would any of that have made a difference? idk

[Coral]

I think that if your reasons for townreading them are strong enough to convince people not to vote for them, then they may be strong enough for that feeling to continue through to the next day, so you may be hesitant to argue for that too strongly. It's true that you would probably gladly take a f3 with Meg in it but I don't think that's enough to not be content with letting town kill them.

[Coral]

My issue right now is that I think that there's setup reasons to think that you're town and setup reasons to think that Datisi is scum, but on my reread of day 1 overnight, I found that on play I thought it was a lot more likely for you to be scum. I'll go into my reasons for that tomorrow.

I'm unlikely to ever feel happy weighting setup speculation over dayplay, but it also feels like I can't ignore it, despite part of me wanting to. Meg was treating you as nearly cleared based on setup. I should give at least some value to that.

[Datisi]

i literally was arguing for all of yesterday why i thought it was u and not megs and why your roles didnt make sense in terms of balance. ausuka didn't want to hear it, datisi didn't want to hear it, literally everyone else was tunneling meg. what are you expecting me to do, exactly?

and in terms of balance, i was arguing that setups can be more complex than it seems, and that making mechanical assumptions and betting the game on them can be dangerous. meg flipped town, obviously, but i still hold that they were not clearable by mech.

regarding the play, the issue is that i thought my reasons for scumreading meg were better than your reasons for scumreading coral. and i don't think i was ever going to see scum!coral without first seeing town!meg.

here's the thing, you said multiple times that you thought meg's play was town-indicative. but when i asked you to lay out the reasons why you think they're townie, or to engage with mine, you basically ignored me. and it seems like your reasons for townreading meg went deeper than "coral is scummy ergo everyone else is towny", so why is that?

[Datisi]

if its not meg i will be snapvoting dats in elo

bfore someone asks: "haven't you been saying you think it's coral?" yes. i do. but the two plausible scenarios in case we get there are either that 1. i am wrong in my read and have been all game or 2. dats and ausuka roadblocked me all game from killing the last scum at which point victory was never an option to begin with

how did 2. translate into "dats is literally never going to vote coral in yeetlo" (or rather, what about me gave you that impression), and what made you change your mind from the snap-voting-at-yeetlo plan?

[Datisi]

on the subject of the setup...

town complex cop
town miller
town informed neighbourizer (miller is town)
town backup neighbourizer
town n1 neapolitan
2x vt

vs

mafia goon
mafia ???

---

town complex cop
town miller
town backup neighbourizer
town n1 neapolitan
3x vt

vs

mafia goon
mafia ??? neighbourizer

the bottom one does feel more ~elegant~, but i wouldn't put it past nrg to pass the upper one with some sorta stronger role for scum left (roleblocker, alien, etc)

i'm probably taking my own advice and not trying to force this via setup mechanics. which means i gotta reread scamper's arguments about coral and both of their slots. which is fun. gonna go eat something first.

[Datisi]

i reread scamper's iso while specifically looking for their reads on meg (that weren't mechanics related), and what i found is

during day 1, the posts that show meg as +town are:

Spoiler:

i think meg is, like, wildly incorrect but it might be townie

and so now i have ari/xay/auss as townie, meg maybe a shade below that

and so this is kind of making me suspicious of dats in the remainder of people, because i dont think hes towntold and some of his takes have made me raise my eyebrow a bit

truthfully i had been theorizing dats/coral in the early game but i think that is slightly less likely right now

and i'm also finding don suspicious now

i hate that the reasoning meg has given on everything is so completely bad and illogical here that i have to consider if this is just scum making terrible nonsense pushes


but i hate even more that i feel like this still might be coming from town

UNVOTE:

that vote was a pretty emotional one and i'm not really sure meg is the most likely player to flip scum even if i find them be wildly anti-town

(for the record, above is not serious. i don't think Meg is significantly likely to flip scum, i just felt like making a point)

i wanna vote Galron at this point but don't wanna E-1

and posts from d1 that seem to be more suspicious of meg are:

Spoiler:

the more i read 529, the more slimy it sounds

UNVOTE:

VOTE: meg

i went to read white flag holder thinking this is probably not scum~meg and now i'm less sure because they're doing the same disingenuous tunnely bad pushes there

i'm including the short-lived vote in that, i can see the argument against including it, but i don't think that overly matters for my point here

d2 +town on meg:

Spoiler:

i went and did a little research on phoenix overnight

he has two competed scumgames on site:
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=81690
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=82442

in both of these he shows a pretty typical newb-scum pattern of play, distancing from his partner but avoiding directly pushing them until it's necessary, making excuses for staying off them

with that in mind, i think its highly likely his partner is in the bottom half of his reads list here

[snip]
i kind of dont think its xayah because i dont think phoenix goes for a partner as a first option

i dont think its datisi or ausuka because i dont think they push their partner like that very early in the game (i especially think the way ausuka handled phoe is clearing)

ari-slot i think is just always town

i could see it being meg, except i sort of think theyre just town on play

i think coral seems the most likely and makes the most sense

From my perspective, it looks like you're openly just having fun messing around as caught scum, because I don't think anything you're saying here makes sense from a town mindset.

thats not really the impression i get at all, and i dont think shed mess around as scum

Coral all throughout the game has been very analytical, nuanced, and her thoughts feel really grounded within the game. It's evident that they are trying to solve the game beyond just a surface level to try and appear townie.

i think shes going to post analytically regardless of alignment...

I mean probably but it seems like a towny thought for meg to have? idk

yeah im not particularly sussing meg, i think their play is more aloof as scum

d3:

Spoiler:

i dont care to rgue setup spec anymore because i dont agree and ultimately i dont think megs play this game comes from scum

like, correct me if i've missed anything, but the closest thing to an explenation of meg's towniness is "they're more aloof as scum" in 1144. and i usually hate going "please explain every single thought you've ever had", but i really don't understand how you came to the conclusion of meg's play being so strongly towny?

[Datisi]

i went to read phoenix's iso in 1976

first of all, flashbacks

second of all:

Spoiler:

Subject: Newbie 1976 - Game Over

Readslist, as promised:

Datisi, Salad

I have to speak about these two in the same paragraph. As far as D1 goes I was fine with Datisi apart from some minor stuff. I disagree with Norway that Datisi's been townreading Salad from the start, it doesn't seem so. When she starts townreading him, though, her main argument is him often acting in a similar way as Town. I'll ignore the whole thing about if the Mason should have claimed or not because as I already said I think there are good points to both sides of the argument. The townread on Salad is the point that has to be addressed here - speaking from my point of view, if I ignore the fact that Salad's Town playstyle is similar to the one he's showing us in this game, I still have some things that bugged my about him from D1 that I have already addressed as well as the fact that he hasn't posted much on D2. Also, him ignoring some of the questions asked is pissing me off, honestly. The fact that he gave up defending himself is not alignment-indicative whatsoever. I could see Datisi giving him a null read, as there are some things about Salad on D1 that I liked, but also some things I didn't. But a townread, I'm not so sure.

Datisi -

null

Salad -

Leaning scum

Norway, Naerys

Also have to address these two together. No problem with him whatsoever on D1. On D2, him starting to suspect Datisi based on the sole fact that Datisi didn't want the Mason to claim I don't understand. The vote-unvote on Datisi I also didn't like. Let's proceed to the Naerys townread then, that's the key point here. Naerys had a bad start, imo. 174 I particularly do not like. Overall, not impressed by her D1. D2: quick to suspect Datisi for no good reason, quick to vote Salad as well, based solely on the evidence from D1 instead of questioning him first. Proceeds to reconsider because... reasons, I guess? So, in general, does the Norway TR on Naerys make sense? No. Why did Norway proceed to vote Naerys after townreading her for so long? I don't know.

Norway -

null

Naerys -

Leaning Scum

Map Wolf

D1 was okay, except some stuff, such as his lingering vote on my slot or him voting my slot along with Non in the first place. D2, though, he's basically non-existent. Overall, not a lot to go off of but from what I have as information currently:

Map Wolf -

Leaning Scum

Non Imh

Town, solely because if she was not the Mason the real Mason should've claimed by now, I find. Her overall play I don't like.

Non Imh -

Town

To all three of my scumreads: What are your thoughts about the game right now? Reads, anything else you want to share? And given that we're 28 pages in I would like a more thorough answer, not shotgun reads or something. I think it's not much to ask.

The same goes for Non, now that I think about it. Look alive.

writes a lot about the townies, writes barely anything about his scumbuddy (and about the mason claim)

i need to check the other game too because one game does not meta make, and scum does sometimes switch up their play, but
it's intriguing at the very least

[scamper]

if its not meg i will be snapvoting dats in elo

bfore someone asks: "haven't you been saying you think it's coral?" yes. i do. but the two plausible scenarios in case we get there are either that 1. i am wrong in my read and have been all game or 2. dats and ausuka roadblocked me all game from killing the last scum at which point victory was never an option to begin with

how did 2. translate into "dats is literally never going to vote coral in yeetlo" (or rather, what about me gave you that impression), and what made you change your mind from the snap-voting-at-yeetlo plan?

that was never really a thought

that was me being petty cuz i said it was coral 2 days straight and got ignored by everyone in the game

ausuka seemed upset by it so i immediately backed down because really i shouldnt decide the game out of spite

[Datisi]

Subject: Newbie 1976 - Game Over

Also i spent the last night being awake and i just set my alarm 10 minutes ago to check if i died or not

So I'm still bit groggy and might just go back to bed for now

this post was made at 5pm my time lmao

pulling all-nighters 3 times a week, chugging 10 cups of coffee per day, literally not having a sleep schedule anymore, those were the times

anyway yes what were we doing

[Datisi]

ok, i skimmed the first half of the iso in the other scumgame, looked like some token distancing but nothing too serious

and no colourful readslist for me to compare smfh

[scamper]

like, correct me if i've missed anything, but the closest thing to an explenation of meg's towniness is "they're more aloof as scum" in 1144. and i usually hate going "please explain every single thought you've ever had", but i really don't understand how you came to the conclusion of meg's play being so strongly towny?

i thought i got into it but basically when meg and i got into that heated 1v1 on Day 1 basically while i felt they were incredibly frustrating, they ultimately really believed all the stuff that they were saying and scum basically rarely gets into a tiff like that. they went from aggressively provoking ari to aggressively provoking me and scum just doesnt play that way. i dont know how to explain it futher its just that sometimes when you get into a big argument with someone you just get the sense you *know* theyre town

i also thought the claim was believable and made sense as a town role in the setup not that it matters