Micro 1059: Micro & Normal Stuff | GAME OVER

[Datisi]

Sunday (North American time) I was busy all day and didn't post or even really check the thread at all. Saturday I had time to post, including the 3 hour window when I did post. I was referring to being more present on Friday or Saturday.

ok i checked, i think this was around the time where... it really did not seem very likely galron was going to be dying? or rather, it was far from it being decided he's the yeet. so i don't think the argument that you would've spent that time pushing more town is very convincing, because at the time it's not like scum!you could've known that galron was gonna keep being a lurksack and end up getting votes and that he's gonna need saving

[Datisi]

we can probably decide this in the pt if you wanna do it, that person won' have to place the vote tonight

i don't think i get the difference btwn deciding it in the pt, or deciding it here

[Coral]

based on the reads you have of me here, that is the feeling i got. i also got the feeling it could've been tmi, if you'd said you didn't know me *that* well.

I'll say... well enough to have ~expectations~ of how you would play as both alignments, even if those may not be entirely accurate.

[scamper]

didnt know what to do with my vote

i don't have issues with the reasons you had to scumread don

i'm asking bc i think there is a clear scum benefit to not immediately voting him but consistently pressuring him (mainly, figuring out the availability of the don misyeet)

bc your vote was on me to ~sort me~, so i'm curious why you weren't using your vote on don the same way

see - im not actually sure not voting him has the benefit you are describing - i think if you actually vote someone and start a wagon other people have to react to it and state a willingness to join or not

and i think that if i had wanted to push a don wagon, regardless of alignment, i would have. i just didnt feel it was the right play. and its kind of wild to me that this is the thing im being questioned on the most although i guess with the lac of action otherwise in the game it makes sense

anyway to answer your question, its because while i felt i could do that with you and just engage you in a conversation don was a little more...aggressive and probably wouldnt take it that way. if i had to guess i was questioning him because i was still wavering between whether he really believed the stuff he was saying or not

[scamper]

we can probably decide this in the pt if you wanna do it, that person won' have to place the vote tonight

i don't think i get the difference btwn deciding it in the pt, or deciding it here

idk, i just thought it'd be cool

[Coral]

Sunday (North American time) I was busy all day and didn't post or even really check the thread at all. Saturday I had time to post, including the 3 hour window when I did post. I was referring to being more present on Friday or Saturday.

ok i checked, i think this was around the time where... it really did not seem very likely galron was going to be dying? or rather, it was far from it being decided he's the yeet. so i don't think the argument that you would've spent that time pushing more town is very convincing, because at the time it's not like scum!you could've known that galron was gonna keep being a lurksack and end up getting votes and that he's gonna need saving

I'm pretty sure whoever is scum did know that was very likely to happen. scamper did also say in 1230 that Saturday night was when the thread is starting to turn against Galron, and the thing that I chose to comment on was that I was getting more suspicious of Galron. He found that scummy, but I think it's towny, because I didn't make any attempts to push elsewhere despite things starting to move towards my partner.

[Coral]

we can probably decide this in the pt if you wanna do it, that person won' have to place the vote tonight

i don't think i get the difference btwn deciding it in the pt, or deciding it here

idk, i just thought it'd be cool

lol

im in favor of the cool factor

retreat to our secret chambers for the decisions

[Datisi]

see - im not actually sure not voting him has the benefit you are describing - i think if you actually vote someone and start a wagon other people have to react to it and state a willingness to join or not

i mean, i am like, *aware* that having a vote on someone is generally a better way to nudge their yeet on than just by talking

but the fact that your votes don't match your words, and your treatment of me doesn't match the treatment of don, and that is ~weird~, and i'm trying to figure out if it's scum-weird or just weird. because i can see a potential way scum could try to use a situation like this - like, this is more likely to be overlooked as a push later because you didn't use your vote, you get to argue it wasn't that strong, etc - while still trying to see how viable don is

[Coral]

haha @spec chat we're talking about so many cool things in the hood and you can't see them

[Coral]

[Irrelephant11]

Official Vote Count 4.02

this paintbrush is made from synthetic fibers, and some days they like their job.

elimination

With 3 votes in play, it takes 2 to unsubscribe.

Everybody

(0): Nobody

Not Voting

(3): Coral, Datisi, scamper

Deadline:

(expired on 2022-08-18 20:10:15).

Mod notes:

<3

[Coral]

Breaking news!

Datisi will be voting first.

Stay tuned for further updates on this developing story.

[Coral]

Okay, we can bring things back here, I think. I'm going to bed. Datisi, you'll have a while to yourself. Most of all, if you do think that it's more likely to be me, I'd ask for you to summarize your main reasons why, and hopefully we can talk about them later.

A couple questions, one small and one less small:
1) Did you mean anything by your intro post? It sounds a little sarcastic, but I'm not sure why.

2) At what point did your read on me start to change? I feel like a lot of that progression isn't visible, can you track through when it happened and why?

I'll try to wake up a bit earlier than usual to be here around when scamper gets here.

[Datisi]

A couple questions, one small and one less small:
1) Did you mean anything by your intro post? It sounds a little sarcastic, but I'm not sure why.

2) At what point did your read on me start to change? I feel like a lot of that progression isn't visible, can you track through when it happened and why?

1) i was poking fun at ausuka. the day before this game started, the two of us were playing keep talking and nobody explodes, where one person is defusing a bomb, and the other person is walking them through it. i was the bomb defuser, and i died multiple times. thanks, ausuka.

2) i had a lot of problems with scamper's play that i thought were scum-indicative, but as the day progressed i found their answers about my concerns to just be... good? other than that, i still find a lot of his play to be town indicative that i laid out in earlier days.

it's not so much that my read on you changed, it's that my read on scamper shifted, and yours didn't shift in the way that would allow you to keep being +town over scamper.

i can go into this in a little bit more detail in a few, because i don't know off the top of my head what specifically made me shift, but yeah.

i'll be revisiting stuff anyway, and i probably won't be voting until both of you are around either way, because i think anxiety about leaving my vote out without confirmation whether it's correct would eat me alive

[Datisi]

yeah, when i entered the day, by far my biggest issues with scamper's play were:
- didn't have a good case on why meg is town, but kept strongtownreading them anyway
- seemed to ignore me when i kept asking them about why meg is town

because i thought that *that* showed a degree of tmi-ness on meg's alignment, and if scamper is scum then it's in his interest to be defending te d3 yeet if he's gonna be facing off two people that pushed them through

but i think his answers about his read on meg make sense, and otherwise his play just feels town to me. not because of any big events, but because of smaller stuff that feel like inconsistencies that scum don't make or don't think about faking it

i wish i could summarize my reasons for thinking it's you, but i don't exactly *have* them - it's just that i have better reasons to think scamper is town than i do thinking you are

because if i had good reasons to think one of you is scum, i'd have voted a long time ago

[Datisi]

i'd quote the post but i don't remember when it was made or in which thread

@scamper, you said something along the lines of not wanting to do real time interactions as scum; is my "scum!scamper would've tried to abuse the ari/aus shitfight instead of calming it down" idea correct?

[Datisi]

i do have a reason im town but im not sure how convincing it will be, hopefully it doesnt matter

has this been outed yet?

[Datisi]

god i wish i wasn't mentally tuning out scamper in that mini for basically the whole time after the d1 flip

[Datisi]

scamper, if you were scum this game, how do you think you play d2?

[Datisi]

i wish i could summarize my reasons for thinking it's you, but i don't exactly *have* them - it's just that i have better reasons to think scamper is town than i do thinking you are

i think the best explicit reason why you're more likely scum, or like a moment that explicitly shows scum motivation, is when you decided you wanted me to vote first

i was not in the mood to argue that last night because i was barely keeping my eyes open, but

in my mind, it would make sense that a townie would want whoever they're scum to vote first. because if scum votes first, you know the game is not going to end yet. and like, if you're town who thinks i'm town and who sees i'm leaning you, then it seems very counterintuitive to me for you to want *me* to vote first. because if i'm town and i vote town!you, that's that, gg. whereas even if scamper!scum votes you first, you still have a chance of convincing me

and even if you do want me to vote first anyway, then i'd expect town!you to actually be presenting more reasons why i should reconsider voting you and instead vote scamper and etc etc. where your 393 in the hood is just *weird* from town-you because it's showing a resigning "well idk how to actually convince you if you're town" attitude which (1) is odd compared to your attitude earlier, (2) is odd because

you

were the fake-hammer vote on me

and also shortly after deciding you want me to hammer first, you start going into potential mechanical problems with my play, which is just... very peculiar timing

like, i absolutely hate that the perhaps best reasons i can point out as scum motivation of someone all happened within like 24 hours before the game's end, because i feel like i should have better reasons and longer-lasting reasons, but

idk i'm tired i didn't sleep much last night

[scamper]

gm

just signing in, will get to answering things when i have time

[scamper]

i'd quote the post but i don't remember when it was made or in which thread

@scamper, you said something along the lines of not wanting to do real time interactions as scum; is my "scum!scamper would've tried to abuse the ari/aus shitfight instead of calming it down" idea correct?

i realistically do not know the answer to that. even if i thought an ari lim was viable at some point, pushing ari is a risky proposition as scum because ari is a scary player when she senses something is off, the kind of player i try to avoid attracting attention of as scum. so i don't necessarily know that i would try to "exploit" it, but i would maybe not try to intervene as much as i did. when a townie is aggressively pushing other townies - e.g. crescent or marcistar from last game, i am generally gonna let them keep doing that. i defended marci that game because i realized taking her to f5 was the winning play but i also showed skepticism toward her without really trying to talk her down from her tunnels. i think as scum i *maybe* let ari/aus keep rolling and let it take over the thread because that sort of conflict tends to sap the energy from everyone else in a game

[scamper]

i do have a reason im town but im not sure how convincing it will be, hopefully it doesnt matter

has this been outed yet?

i have said it though maybe not directly addressing this - as town im way more likely to let my emotions get the best of me and fly off the handle like i did at meg on day 1. i realize this is *completely* unverifiable without town meta on this account but as i said i was a lot more in control in the scumgame. i could fake that but i think in general in games its better to appear calm & rational unless you're really in a corner. i would maybe say an example of this is in that mini when corwin blew up at me, i just went something to the effect of "wow this is gross & unnecessary", because i knew he was digging his own grave by getting so angry in response to me. of course, he was the traitor, but at the time i *thought* he was (probably) town i had provoked into a raging meltdown. and i just kind of brushed off his attacks because they didn't mean anything to me.

i think the difference is that as town its a lot more irritating to me to be falsely accused, because i *know* i am innocent. and so when someone is pushing me for reasons i know are bad, i get heated because they are either scum intentionally misrepping me or town who is being a big illogical dummy. and so when meg was pushing me day 1 i couldnt resist trying to tear apart their arguments because i just wanted to do everything i could to shut them down. part of it was i was really trying to read them since they can be a quiet player otherwise but also i just

really

wanted to "win" the argument. and i think that passion only comes from town!me. as scum, i don't think i get that upset because - why would i? no one is all that likely to take megazumarill's reads all that seriously. its much easier to brush those type of accusations aside. its also the case where getting into a 1v1 like that isnt really tactically beneficial, its unlikely to persuade people and might even make them dislike me. better to discredit and minimize that type of player. but as town, im *not sure* of megs alignment, and so i have this paranoia where im vacillating between "this is a tunneled townie" and "this is scum making a bad faith push" and im not really sure and so i keep arguing trying to figure something out. its maybe not the wisest play but its hard for me to back down there.

so, again, not really verifiable but i dont lose control toward meg like i did this game as scum.

[scamper]

wow that is a lot of words. i feel like i might be damaging myself in the future talking about how scum!me thinks and operates but o well

[scamper]

god i wish i wasn't mentally tuning out scamper in that mini for basically the whole time after the d1 flip

hehe (:

scamper, if you were scum this game, how do you think you play d2?

that is also a difficult question, because i think as last scum standing your play and mindset is not all that different from playing as a town - its just that you know your win condition is to survive, but otherwise the arguments you make will be fundamentally similar, you look for people with the worst associatives to push, etc. i think *maybe* i realize a player like coral is too high a degree of difficulty to push, *or* i go all-out effort on casing her rather than being kind of hesitant on it, but other than that i really do not know what scum!me does differently here. i think the path to victory for me would not look all that different from how things have played out.