Micro 14: Think Twice (Day 2) *Sunshine Icon Here*

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Err, to get this started, I'm going to say that I am about the worst person to get cleared, so I'm going to request that I don't be lynched day 1.

Then again, if you all think I'm scum, the alternative is to lynch me day 2, which is a loss.

Meh.

PEdit: Ice, because I hadn't gotten a handle on the site's meta of faking votes.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

No. I'm not.

I was, but then I realized that it IS wasting a day, that we can't afford.

What I meant by the site's meta is that it is ridiculously frowned on.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p4239053

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

What I have to say is that I REALLY need to think before I act. As town, I try not to edit my posts, leading to all sorts of scummy stuff coming out that I should be thinking better of were I editing.

By ridiculously, I meant so much it's ridiculous how much it is, not that it is something to ridicule.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

*facepalm* *facepalm* *facepalm* *facepalm* *facepalm* *brainpalm*

Um, I think it's more that I don't edit my posts, and I accept that I should, but I still don't.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Hangon.

I accept that I'm being incredibly anti-town with the insane amount of contradictions and failing to get my point across. Does this make me scum?

I knew this was going to happen, which is why I made that first post.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

What exactly am I supposed to post? I have no real idea on that.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

And that is pretty much what I'm against.

When we move on, I'm going to be practically no help, as you can tell from me so far.

Also, that's a little bit too sheepy imo.

VOTE: Cobblerfone

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Yeah.

Meh.

Whatever.

Sorry, I don't really get that? All I understand is that my point makes no sense.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Guys, we shouldn't give cobbler a free pass. He put the wagon at the stage where quickhammers become a possibility. And it doesn't look like that's enough.

Our ONLY power is the free lynch day 1. We shouldn't be treating it casually.

I think saul's post is alright. His logic makes some sort of sense, just not enough to be right.

PEdit: Saul, it wasn't tim who put the vote down for hammer.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

What I mean is, tim put down the first vote. And you were going to be the third. Surely there's a second vote in there somewhere?

Also, grey as scum? Really?

A quicklynch serves no point for scum today.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

What would town do if there was a quicklynch? Immediately get suspicious of the quicklynchers.

Hmm, any townie quickhammering effectively loses the game if it's not scum hammered, as the amount of suspicion on them would be fairly massive.

Saulres, are you basically saying you could have made it a quicklynch, but you didn't, and the guys who were on the wagon are suspicious because it was nearly a quicklynch?

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Saulres, it's mostly because of following this. http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... ew_on_cops

A confirmed innocent holds a different place to the town than an unconfirmed innocent. You can trust them not to be making stuff up because they're scum. However, if I had to lead a case on somebody as confirmed innocent I'd be making stuff up because I suck.

Also, pseudovote Cobbler.

I think I believe saulres on this one. Further analysis of his meta needs to happen though.

PEdit: Erm, Idk what to make of that. I can understand both ice's and tim's stances. Not sure which I agree with yet.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Siv. Scum are going to try to manipulate you into mislynching me. Its the only way they can win. Scum are in

Cobbler|Saul|Ice

Vote: Cobbler

Excuse me, what?

If you're saying I'm town, these are the only guys for you to say to lynch.

This is basically a "don't lynch me" done subtly.

I don't like it.

Also, I already had a vote on cobbler? Meh.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

I agree with ice. No hammer.

In fact

UNVOTE: Cobblerfone

I dislike tim's eagerness to hammer, where he was reluctant earlier on me.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Saulres, it's mostly because of following this. http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... ew_on_cops

A confirmed innocent holds a different place to the town than an unconfirmed innocent. You can trust them not to be making stuff up because they're scum. However, if I had to lead a case on somebody as confirmed innocent I'd be making stuff up because I suck.

So you're worried that because you don't play well, you'll be making up cases which we'll see through, and you'd rather not have a confirmed townie status because -- we'd believe them? It still doesn't make sense. If you're town and you think your cases won't be good, a confirmed status would prevent us from mislynching you -- I still don't see why that's something you're trying to actively avoid. Town who's not confident should be

wanting

the confirmed status.

So still, I'm seeing you coming from a scum mindset and not a town one. Doesn't anyone else see that?

I'd rather not be confirmed townie because I'd suck and be easily manipulated. Conf-townies are good to lead town, and I'd probably lead into a scum win. Then again, if I have to be mislynched day 1 I'll take it.

Saulres, besides this, why am I scum?

I'm going to say saulres is a little bit scummy, because only a scum deals in absolutes.

VOTE: Cobblerfone

Still think cobbler is our best lead for today.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Not really, no.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Siv whats your mafia experience prior to mafiascum

6-10 Games on a deceased site. 12-24hour deadlines, Minimum 50% of the town being completely inactive in all games. Doesn't matter how many games you play like this, you get no experience.

Conf-townies are good to lead town

Trust me, if you're town, you've made it abundantly clear that we shouldn't follow your lead. You won't automatically become a leader.

Exactly. Better to clear somebody who WILL become a leader. Then again, if the leader is mostly townie anyway, why waste a lynch on them? Also, if everyone thinks I'm scum, then I need to get cleared, obviously, or we're screwed when it's actually LyLo.

Reads:

Timeater: Town: for just being in charge of this game .
Ice: Null: Not enough for me to really get a feel for scum/town on him.
Saulres: Town: It looks like he's trying to understand why I did what I did, rather than immediately paint me as scum for it.
Cobbler: Scum: For backpedaling, sheeping onto me, and just not really explaining himself enough.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Hrmm. Yeah.

I'm also putting tim back at null, because of just a bit of sdtuff I dislike.

But, saulres, seriously? Sheeping tim? If we all lynch him to confirm him, then sheep, there's nothing to go off. Saying this because I'd probably sheep him too, lol.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Tim is somewhat scum because of

Siv. Scum are going to try to manipulate you into mislynching me. Its the only way they can win. Scum are in

Cobbler|Saul|Ice

Vote: Cobbler

This. When you add in

10. Thou shalt not state the obvious.

I really don't like it. However, the overall townishness of his play is good.

However, cobbler/tim scum really doesn't go well as a team with me, and cobbler is the other big suspect I have.

Iceguy? I have litterally no clue on iceguy.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Um, how was that obvious? How is it obvious you wont be lynched today? How is your alignment obvious?

Seems like a bullshit thing to say

It's not obvious that I won't be lynched, or obvious that I'm town.

What's obvious is the conclusion to draw from those facts. You're addressing me as if I'm town. Okay. You are obviously going to say you yourself are town. Okay. Thus, scum is in the other three people. How is that not obvious if we are both town?

I accept that it's not that bad if you went the other way, and said scum is in ice/saulres/cobbler, thus siv is town, so I should make a post to him. But it just doesn't rub me that way.

Ice, are you trying to get proof of your guilt? Shouldn't you be the one giving proof of your innocence?

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Well, ice would be somewhat better than cobbler as a confirmed townie...

VOTE: Iceguy

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

EBWOP: Yes, I'm blatantly sheeping timeater.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Siv

: Are you voting Ice because you think he's scum, because you think he'd be a better as a confirmed townie, or because you're just sheeping?

EBWOP: Yes, I'm blatantly sheeping timeater.

Tbh I think I'm gonna be happier with a tim lynch, really.

VOTE: timeater

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Argh. I don't want to see-saw back and forth so much. And it's going to happen.

UNVOTE: Timeater

Until I have definite decision on tim, ice or cobbler. Which is probably at the hammer, really.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

VOTE: Timeater

He's not the most scummy, but he's somewhat scummy, and definitely the best person to have confirmed.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Okay. Right.

QUICKHAMMERS ARE BAD. ANY QUICKHAMMER EARNS MY ETERNAL VOTE

Happy?

PEdit: ... Impatient, aren't you?

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Touchy, aren't you? If I'm voting you, you are obviously not obviously town to me.

Also, obvscum rarely is.

I think you're possibly scum, and yeah.

PEdit: I don't know how to put this at all.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Obvscum rarely is scum.

OKAY. Right. Crap.

Commentless dodge? What?

PEdit: ...

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Then he says he doesn't want to see-saw, but unvotes anyway!

Sorry, what? By see-sawing I meant switching votes between tim and ice continuosly. I wasn't sure where my vote should be on either of them, so I took it off for then. When I'd made up my mind (which was really not that well thought out) I put it back on tim.

Also, look at my meta. 90% of the time I've gone all over the place with votes.

That's all I can really say in my defence.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Tim, you will tell me who to vote for. Obviously.

It will be darn near impossible to tell who scum is if we all sheep. Meh.

If you're town, though, not only are we in LyLo, but then there's definitely at least one scum on your wagon. So which one is it? I could see it being either of them (or both).

From your PoV, obviously. But why would scums definitely vote tim?

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

From your PoV, obviously.

But why would scums definitely vote tim?

...

Tim's town.

I'm town.

There are two scum, but only one person unconfirmed in my eyes not on the wagon.

Therefore, at least one scum is on his wagon.

That's why at least one scum definitely voted Tim. Unless I don't understand what you're asking?

The bold answers that.

From Tim's PoV, why does scum definitely vote tim?

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

I'm buddying up to tim? I guess I kinda am, because I don't trust my own guidance enough.

Anyway, saulres, part of the point is you're basically saying either me or cobbler is scum, without mentioning ice in there at ALL.

Also...

That second post feels like scum saying "Oh crap I better say don't hammer so when he flips town I can say 'I told you not to hammer! See? I'm town!'" Blech.

Were I scum concerned with appearances, realising putting tim at L-1 is bad, I'd unvote and chalk it down to indecisiveness and newbieness. And this is worthless as it comes from me. Meh.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

you're basically saying either me or cobbler is scum, without mentioning ice in there at ALL

Right, because there's no need to. Ice could be scum, but he could not be. I know for a

fact

that at least one of you or Cobbler is scum. So I'd rather focus there, trying to get something concrete on one of you, then spend energy looking for scum where there might not be any.

You cannot compare that. If you are town, from your PoV I could be scum, or I could be not. Cobbler could be scum, but he could be not. You know scum is definitely at least one of me/ice. You know scum is definitely at least one of cobbler/ice.

Why is ice not getting looked at?

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

I was going to do this separating the pairs but immediately I got hit by a "I need to look at the other possibilities here" so that's what I'm doing. While I'm working on that if I find questions I'll just throw them out.

As town, I try not to edit my posts

What do you do as scum?

Um. That just means I chuck stuff out there with no regard for how it looks. As scum, I do the opposite - check it first.

No you don't. You've already wasted our only possible mislynch with your fucking stupid self-hammer. I don't trust you one little bit. You're a terrible player nobody should pay any attention to. So shut up.

This is convenient for scum ice wanting to keep tim off you.

Tim, DON'T VOTE. On the chance you hit town, scum has a win, assuming they're on. The chances of the townie hitting the other townie is unlikely, especially if you order second scummiest to vote for scummiest.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Ice, are you trying to get proof of your guilt? Shouldn't you be the one giving proof of your innocence?

What do you mean?

Siv, you never answered this.

Um, this is kindof obvious. Meh.
It's basically saying that ice is saying there's no case on him, so he's not scum, and myself thinking there's no reason for him to be town.

Tim, DON'T VOTE. On the chance you hit town, scum has a win, assuming they're on. The chances of the townie hitting the other townie is unlikely, especially if you order second scummiest to vote for scummiest.

\

you realize how retarded this is right

Why is this retarded? I guess the main problem is that you're only going to vote for lynch, so meh, doesn't matter voting order.
I didn't mean you do not hammer.

PEdit In next post.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

This is convenient for scum ice wanting to keep tim off you.

Explain.

Tim, DON'T VOTE. On the chance you hit town, scum has a win, assuming they're on. The chances of the townie hitting the other townie is unlikely, especially if you order second scummiest to vote for scummiest.

Actually, you don't need to. You've confirmed yourself as scum with that.

From town-Siv's perspective, there is no "other townie". There is himself (confirmed town), Tim (confirmed town), two scum and

one

townie.

First point, I'm accusing you of trying to discredit tim so that we don't sheep him onto you, as before his self-hammer he proclaimed unchanging votes on you.

Second quote, yes, but I was doing it from town-tim's perspective. That point really wasn't thought through at ALL, though.

PEdit: And crap. I'm sure it's ice, but okay tim.

VOTE: Siveure DtTrikyp

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

UNVOTE: Siveure DtTrikyp

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Hrmm. That is about the riskiest gambit ever, so called it off.

Idk what to do, really.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

*facepalm* I hate that sort of thing. I admit NOTHING. Please use different terminology.

Saul, it was originally me deciding I didn't want to go through the torturous agony of convincing you all I'm town, so yeah. Then for about the half-minute before the unvote it was a gambit to try to get one scum to vote, then unvote quickly.

Then I realized how crap that idea is. You don't need to point it out.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

So you're thinking people would think I'd be scum and yet listen to what I have to say about Timeater?

I don't know HOW you get this, but no.

Until I have definite decision on tim, ice or cobbler. Which is probably at the hammer, really.

Why not saulres?

Siv, haven't answered this yet either. And I'm wondering the same thing myself. Threw me off totally when I hit it. Were you still trying to suck up to Tim's reads there, after he was (again) challenging your play?

I thought you were town. I was fairly sure you were town. I went with that, and was trying to decide on who of the rest was scum.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Saulres, the BIG problem with that is that you're counting way more events for me than for cobbler/ice.

Pairing unlikely doesn't happen there that much.

Counting only events where "nothing to be gleaned" did not happen.

Cobbler/Siv: 6 Events
Cobbler/Ice: 2 Events
Siv/Ice: 7 events.

When you look at the average points per event, i'm not necessarily higher than either of the other two.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

So you're thinking people would think I'd be scum and yet listen to what I have to say about Timeater?

I don't know HOW you get this, but no.

This was exactly what you said.

"This is convenient for scum ice wanting to keep tim off you."

What? What part of this says people would think you'd be scum? It says, in a very bad way admittedly, that you're trying to discredit tim.

And also, what makes people think I'm scum other than my being an idiot, as I really doubt intelligence has anything to do with alignment. And this is the sorta thing I called out ice for. Meh.

PEdit: I dislike initiating things. I don't have stuff to plead to you, to be honest.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

I'm not sure on it being cobb, but it could be.

I think it's ice.

VOTE: Iceguy

Anyway, who's the buddy bussing me, guys?

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Who will quickhammer? Cobbler/saul? IMO that's a rather unlikely pairing.

Anyway, will run through and make sure it is completely unlikely first.

UNVOTE: IceGuy

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

It's not random. I'm fairly sure you are scum.

Then again, I do need agreement from everyone else.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Saulres not scum. I REALLY don't see a point in trying to stop the lynch as scum.

So thus.

VOTE: Cobbler