Micro 113: Think Twice - Game Over!

[Phoenicks]

It's pronounced like the mythical bird: Phoenix (/Fee/-nix). Bonus points for getting the pun.

Now, enough with that silliness.

Vote: JasonWazza

[Phoenicks]

Passing out hammers like medical marijuana cards.

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How is voting me not silly?

That
was the point.

He decided to just randomly vote without going back into the game.

Call it a small tell of just avoiding people so he doesn't get into bad interactions but it is a tell.

^Apparently, plan foiled.

Actually, I'm confused.
Am I not voting randomly enough?

[Phoenicks]

You're following protocol without understanding why you should or should not follow it.

Not really sure what you mean, especially since JW seems to be telling me the opposite.

Not sure if noob tell or scum tell atm. FuDuZn. Help.

I'm new to mafiascum. Not to mafia.

Being random is not the point of RVS, it's the fact that your not being random.

Isn't that how you get out of RVS?

[Phoenicks]

NOTHING IS EVER RANDOM

This is because we already have our role PM's meaning that we know from the get go what motives we have.

Randomness is that which we don't know. Townies, with ignorance, alone can be random. Not that they will, or should, be.

Anyways this is too pedantic for me.

I'm new to mafiascum. Not to mafia.

Doubtful.

http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/f563/bmgf-m ... ory-90782/
http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/f563/war-ro ... ew-111015/
http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/f563/first- ... ed-117850/
http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/f563/war-ro ... up-137489/

etc.

You can check my profile here yourself. I've finished one game.

especially since JW seems to be telling me the opposite.

Yes because silly=random. I remember when I could replace random for silly![/quote]

I think that you're acting much snarkier than me.

Isn't that how you get out of RVS?

Okay, so before I go into a horrible mess about how this post is horrible--let me ask you one thing. Let's get it all out on the table.

What was your initial point of voting Jason?[/quote]

1) I prefer to vote over not voting.
2) I prefer to vote players who haven't appeared yet.
3) I'd prefer not to create L-1 only four posts in.

Otherwise I don't feel the need to defend the contents of the two small posts in question. Too early to get worked up.

[Phoenicks]

I think at this point you're more interested in getting me to agree with you than scumhunting.

Declaring me suspicious, arguing at me, voting, and tunneling -- without a communicable explanation of why I'm suspicious -- isn't scumhunting.

Can you please state -- or restate, if I've missed something -- precisely why you think I'm scum?

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@Jason: I prefer to vote for inactives because you get responses from the active players and the inactives, if they surface.

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@Hiraki: Can we laugh about you being snarky in response to being told that you're snarky, and move on?

I'm new to mafiascum. Not to mafia.

Not calling myself experienced by any measure -- I can always improve.

Moving on.

I'm thinking that one of Jason/Hiraki is town -- I don't think that two mafia would bog themselves in this conversation.

[Phoenicks]

@Siveure DtTrikyp, what do you make of what's been said so far.

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I think at this point you're more interested in getting me to agree with you than scumhunting.

Declaring me suspicious, arguing at me, voting, and tunneling -- without a communicable explanation of why I'm suspicious -- isn't scumhunting.

Can you please state -- or restate, if I've missed something -- precisely why you think I'm scum?

The RVS gave off really bad Vibes.

You said lets stop being silly (which i rightly assumed was stop RVSing) then RVS'd me, so basically you went against your own words in your own post (never a good thing)

That was the joke. It was a better option than putting someone at L-1.

Not to mention your sole reason for still voting me is "you weren't here within the first 2 hours of people posting" (hint neither was Hiraki)

It was random. Townies can be random where scum can't.

Unvote

So that later if I want to vote Jason it has force.

[Phoenicks]

Randomness is that which we don't know. Townies, with ignorance, alone can be random. Not that they will, or should, be.

Anyways this is too pedantic for me.

Not feeling a Jason lynch right now, and if I am, I can change. What's wrong with an Unvote?

[Phoenicks]

Sorry but if Z fucks our game we heckle them straight afterwards, for being a freaking newb and ruining our game.

Considering that this is a micro game, there's more of a point where you should worry about Z screwing up now rather than later.

No one will care if Z screws up when there's a mislynch to be had but it makes all the difference when there isn't.

What should I be examining here? I'm having a hard time examining a conversation like this. I can't get a read for all the crickets.

[Phoenicks]

Here's the ISO of FuDuzn I didn't promise. Apologies if it fucks the game.

#2 --This is a fairly standard joke vote, without jokes.

#4 -- Now with.

We're still at the RVS stage where you can get away without providing any substance.

#15 -- This is the first time Fu's dug into the game, and he mostly comes to my defense (cautiously). His reason for unvoting, that he's not "feeling it," leaves a lot of room for interpretation -- convenient if the spirit comes on him later. If he wanted to back up his feeling, he missed his chance by instead talking about the game going in circles.

This is an easy way to gain town credit -- "Do something" -- without physically adding to the discussion.

With his final comment, he almost defends me -- it "is called the 'Random' Voting Stage," don't read too much into it, don't get worked up. But

isn't that the same conversation he said was cyclical?

I can't point to this post affecting my scumdar. It's relatively neutral, considered alone.

#19 -- More jokes, but nothing here means much. "Why want Phoenicks lynched," "Care to elaborate," etc. -- where's the beef? These discussion prods have been weak -- their chief feature is that nobody is talking about them. Hiraki doesn't know my positions from memory; I don't know your positions from looking at them.

I still don't see anything explicitly scummy -- because

I don't see much of anything.

#32 -- You get an answer to your question, and weakly push for more. You keep

waiting

to say something, and I keep wanting to find something to say about that that I haven't said: The chief feature of your posts is that nobody is talking about them.

#34 -- In #15 he wasn't "feeling it" -- now he is. Or so I assume -- he's still meekly presenting questions and then, come next post, not caring for the answers. I don't see any discussion. Before, I was not a noob, now I am. The shift is an easy out of saying something.

At this point I feel comfortable:

Vote: FuDuzn

#39 -- I'm not inventive enough to say something new about this one. It's the same as before.

#47 -- And, to complete Fu's distanced behavior, he sort of comes back to ignoring Hiraki. If I was only going on Fu's posts, I'd assume that Hiraki was his scummate. He's kept a cautious distance and, importantly, never made Hiraki say anything important.

Except for #34, no one post strikes me as scummy by itself.

Combined there is a record of appearing to contribute to the discussion without contributing.

---

A few assorted thoughts:

@Sivuere: Talk to us man. What do you have to elaborate?

Vote: JasonWazza

How is voting me not silly?

I left a bad first impression and that's my own fault for not knowing the site. Voting you in RVS, however, was mainly just random.

Call it a small tell of just avoiding people so he doesn't get into bad interactions but it is a tell.

Do you think that this still applies?

(Post #7 was also intended as a light joke -- consider it my reaction to being put at L-1.)

Hiraki is recklessly pursuing a quicklynch. And also appreciative that it's not always a good idea to be voting quickly. Okay, that's kinda contradictory.

How did you get this impression? Quotes, please.

[Phoenicks]

Do you think that Sivuere is so likely scum that you'd be willing to take the risk that he becomes the clear to lead us in a second day LYLO?

[Phoenicks]

Do you think that Sivuere is so likely scum that you'd be willing to take the risk that he becomes the clear to lead us in a second day LYLO?

I'm pretty sure he's scum or just a shit player.

Why?

[Phoenicks]

I'm comfortable with having the hammer. I'd like Jason's thoughts on whether he still suspects Hiraki as much as he did before or not.

And Phoenicks, I am more of a reactive player and try to examine interactions as they happen rather then try and force the action. So in a relatively slower game like this I do tend to watch from the sidelines until I believe I see something stick out, kind of like I believe I see something now with Hiraki.

I noticed. What do you have to say about the rest of my ISO?

[Phoenicks]

Phoenicks. New plan.

You're going to assess me and Siveure (just to make things simpler)

and you're going to raise a vote on one of us

and put a case on one of us

Oh yeah I guess I have the hammer, don't I?

Guess that means I have to pick one of you, right?

Really? You can't give reasons because then you'll be too obv. town? Give me a break.

NO. I've only ever pushed wagons when I'm obvtown, in comparison to everyone else.

I find it impossible to give reasons, usually.

Help the noob here, what's your definition of obvtown?

If you're saying that you have a way to help the town, that'd be great.

[Phoenicks]

Sivuere's signature could be a ploy to discourage a lynch.

[Phoenicks]

Hope you're feeling better, two days is a terribly long time to sleep.

[Phoenicks]

@mod: I leave Wednesday the 30th for China and will be on V/LA while traveling until ~2nd. Once in China my activity level will change; up or down I can't tell.

And right now I'm more likely to hammer Hiraki.

[Phoenicks]

Well, not exactly, since I just announced that I'd rather hammer on him.

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I'm back and will do a quick write-up of why I'm hammering Hiraki for some responses; deadline is in 4 hours if I counted right.

[Phoenicks]

This game starts from 5-player LYLO and, therefore, requires that all 3 townies vote for scum, or that one of the mafiosi bus. Because the death of the godfather is automatic loss, it is highly unlikely that the goon will bus the godfather Day 1. It's far more likely that the scum are not on each other. And, because scum can coordinate (if only for the first 48 hours of a phase), it's more likely that the scum have chosen separate wagons than the townies successfully uniting.

So I'm anticipating both current wagons being wrong, though it's not the only possibility and not something to accommodate.

I'm also anticipating that, if Hiraki is town, it will narrow the choices more than if Siveure flips town. Right now I'm thinking in terms of scum

FuDuzn = JasonWazza > Hiraki > Siveure

List subject to change as soon as you all tell me it's shitty.

I guess I could talk about that but, hey, you wanted my choice between Siveure and Hiraki.

I've got nothing TOO say

Siv, I'm not gonna post if i don't have anything i need to say, everyone knows how i feel right now.

Since when.

You don't hammer without responses. You hammer after you find the answer inadequate.

Well, yeah.

Furthermore, it addresses my problem with Phoenicks and Phoenicks decides to not give a single fuck toward it. That's crummy town behavior for an experienced player and somewhat of a fustrated tell for scum, no?

For a while you were on about me being scum or noob, and decided on the former. Never quite explained yourself, except for your powwow with Jason.

I was suspecting Jason in my mind for the last few posts but that vote confirms the town read.

There's more like this but pretty sure you're either buddying to Jason or he's buddying to you.

This is before you ended up on the same wagon anyways.

And here, that is your only real experience. Knowing the way mafia works isn't enough to call yourself experienced. That's what a forum mafia game, that's not specified for mafia, displays.

Remember the rest of those words? Yeah, they had a bit more importance than the whole snarky part.

You kept antagonizing me even though it didn't move the conversation forward. FuDuzn was in the position of looking town for arguing against the cyclical discussion (while propogating it himself); you were in the position of moving it forward anyways. Both behaviors I'd label as scummy -- certainly anti-town.

Regretting calling Jason super duper town due to his answers. Mostly numero uno.

Since you're on the same wagon as Jason I'm assuming that this doesn't apply.

Not that you really explained why his answers changed your stance on him anyways.

Vote: Siveure DtTrikyp

I'm glad you've actually been reading

two

pages worth of content. Seriously? That's all you had to say? Just vote me and hop away?

How did this reason become enough to lynch Siveure.

Out of the top of my head I can't remember why you want to lynch Siveure besides the fact that he's consistent in his obstinacy.

What should I be examining here?

You should be examining oddities that don't make sense.

Ex: Siveure calls me contradictory.

There's two things wrong here.

A) Siveure fails to cite anything that I've done that's actually scummy.

Vice-versa really.

Like I said before, scumtells are inclination of someone to do something scummy rather than being the fact to the 100%. Here, Siveure DtTrikyp is calling quicklynching scummy. I mean--it's not always good but this is definitely something that used to be a 100% scumtell that has, unfortunately, been downgraded to a null tell (in my opinion)

You just invalidated your point above.

hammer dis dood

his cockiness does not sway me

Yours does not sway me.

I'm comfortable with having the hammer. I'd like Jason's thoughts on whether he still suspects Hiraki as much as he did before or not.

Nobody has any problems now with 'the noob' having the hammer.

Most especially you, Hiraki, since me being a noob and needing to be lead was your reason for no longer calling me scum in the first place.

And Phoenicks, I am more of a reactive player and try to examine interactions as they happen rather then try and force the action. So in a relatively slower game like this I do tend to watch from the sidelines until I believe I see something stick out, kind of like I believe I see something now with Hiraki.

I noticed. What do you have to say about the rest of my ISO?[/quote]

Still calling FuDuzn out on this one.

Phoenicks. New plan.

You're going to assess me and Siveure (just to make things simpler)

and you're going to raise a vote on one of us

and put a case on one of us

Yeah this was pretty obvious without you having to explain it.

Except for "you're going to raise a vote on one of us" -- doesn't really speak to you assuming that you're town and shouldn't be lynched.

While I admire your growing analyzing skills, that's mainly to determine if the person is an asshole or not.

Using *shrug* is a pretty good indicator as well.

And, yeah, considering that I'm supposed to be a noob, you're not taking any of my bait as a lead-in to why I should be lynching the not-you choice.

Everything seems like you don't care about being pro-town -- which is probably less-fair than saying that you don't care about anything, really.

[Phoenicks]

Hell, if I was scum, I'd be stalling until Phoenicks went on V/LA too.

[Phoenicks]

Siveure unvoted, you're not hammered.

I'm comfortable with a Jasonwazza lynch.

[Phoenicks]

Unvote: FuDuzn

Vote: JasonWazza

[Phoenicks]

I'm traveling but I want to say that I didn't suspect you as much as I suggested. I wanted you over Siveure but Jason or FuDuzn first. Figured if I provoked you a but I could restore your bargain with Siv and maybe feel better about it. If Jason flips scum, then I will want FuDuzn first. If not, we'll see.

[Phoenicks]

This makes up for the 26-hour trip. Good game everybody, it was fun.

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Will we get to see the mafia quicktopic?

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Thanks!