Micro 170 - Empking Mafia

[orozorro]

Is there a wiki entry for this type of game? Somewhere I can see the setup/possible roles etc?

[orozorro]

VOTE: Varsoon

Presumably Empking is the town role... So would Empking's Alt be scum?

Varsoon is Empking's alt? Maybe I don't know the meaning of alt properly but are you saying that one person with 2 accounts is both moderator and player in this game? :S

[orozorro]

Varsoon, in post 9 you say you "don't usually do RVS but this is a 7-day game." Can you explain what you mean by that?

Nero, in 37 you suggest a varsoon/TAM scumteam, what suggests TAM's scumminess to you? By the way, I'm not an alt, why did you assume that I was?

Arcangel, in 55 you said Varsoon 'should start balancing it out'. Can you explain what you mean by this and how it would be better for the town?

I think Nero's 26 highlighting Var as complaining about inactivity but not trying to create further discussion is a good point against Var - it does look a little hypocritical to make a statement like that and not at least ask a simple question which might get discussion going. Var's response to being put on the spot was pretty weak but I don't think that in itself is a scumtell. One thing I'd like to ask everybody about is the final two sentences of post 27 by Var:

"Scum would prefer for town to do nothing for the next six days and make a lynch based on very little information. I'd rather give them that pleasure."

In my previous game, Hiraki pointed out what he called a Freudian slip tell, suggesting that a slip such as this might be indicative of scumminess. Unfortunately he was scum so I have no idea if there is any merit to this sort of tell, what do you guys think?

[orozorro]

@Orozorro: I don't like participating in RVS. I'd rather do something to get players engaged and out of random voting and flinging baseless accusations until something sticks.

That's not what I mean. You said "but this is a 7-day game" as if that was a reason for you to go against your usual play style and get involved with RVS. Can you please clarify what you meant by that?

Yeah, that should definitely read "I'd rather not give them that pleasure."

Of course it

should

read that way, I'm asking the others if they attribute any meaning to you mistyping it.

Orozorro, what do you think of the other players?

There's not really much to comment on so far. I think Hiraki's reason for voting you was a bit weak so I'll be interested in hearing his reasons if he doesn't shift it later. I also didn't like the way he ignored your question in 30, I don't know if he usually does that as town but when I was in a game with him where he was scum he often ignored questions posed to him.

[orozorro]

Lynch candidates:

Varsoon: seemed a little bit scummy in the early game with his requests for more activity without contributing any himself combined with his potential freudian slip in 27 but since then he hasn't really done anything to suggest he's scum, unless I've missed something. Please point it out to me if I have.

Jacobsavage: None of his posts really seem to have any game-related content other than his final one which tells us that AA is town and Varsoon is probably scum (giving no reasons). If he continues to play like this then I will probably end up wanting to lynch him but for today he's safe.

Nero: his claim against TAM in 59 was pretty baseless and he then refused to back it up when requested. In 61 he says he wants to pl TAM and savage for lurking, in 92 he says to get rid of savage/AA without giving any clear reason then in 94 he asks Hiraki to help him get rid of TAM. In 102 he then shifts his vote to AA without giving a reason and tells us to discuss. It basically seems like he's tried to get rid of everyone barring Hiraki and I (although that may not last long after this post) and doesn't ever really seem to have a valid reason for doing so. To me he's the most suspicious player in this game so he's going to get my vote for now.

VOTE: Nero

[orozorro]

So your theory is that "you didn't find scum, so you must be lying about a cop claim."?

So you didn't find scum? What seems weird to me is that on N1 you didn't investigate your top scumread/the person you were voting for at the end of D1 - me. The reason I know this is because if you had, you'd be shifting your vote elsewhere. That or (if I was scum) you'd be proclaiming the news to everyone to get me lynched rather than voting me with no clear reason. Instead you seem to have investigated someone and are refusing to confirm them as town - something that only benefits the scum team.

That or your cop claim was a lie and you're scum.

Convince me otherwise.

VOTE: Nero

[orozorro]

Nero, the scum know who town are but the town don't. Therefore not confirming a player as town is detrimental to the town. Knowledge is power in this game and you're leaving us weak. That or you faked your role claim and are hoping people will forget because it's a short day.

As for being inactive, there wasn't much going on at first so I focused on one of my other games and then at the weekend I was busy so didn't get online at all.

Now I've cleared that up for you are you even going to bother to reply to my previous post and explain your actions or shall I just accept you as certain scum and start looking for your partner?

[orozorro]

I'm going to let a cop confirm himself first.

and how would I do that?

Okay so Nero when you die, we lose your result.

I can understand not outing it if you hadn't claimed but you have so...

Also why wouldn't they just kill you?

I don't see why I "have to". Not a single person can tell me how outing my cop zult helps the town.

Also your "why wouldn't they kill you" is just echoing Varsoon. Why did they HAVE to kill me? By not killing me it creates a shitload of WIFOM. Kinda like whats happening now.

Are you trolling? Do you seriously not know how confirming a player as town is beneficial to town? We have about 16 hours left of this day to try to figure out who's scum. If you can tell us who's town then at the worst it'll confirm they're town if you're lynched and flip cop and at the best will help prevent us from suspecting someone wrongly and wasting our time.

Nero, the scum know who town are but the town don't. Therefore not confirming a player as town is detrimental to the town. Knowledge is power in this game and you're leaving us weak. That or you faked your role claim and are hoping people will forget because it's a short day.

As for being inactive, there wasn't much going on at first so I focused on one of my other games and then at the weekend I was busy so didn't get online at all.

Now I've cleared that up for you are you even going to bother to reply to my previous post and explain your actions or shall I just accept you as certain scum and start looking for your partner?

Yea, I already replied to your other post. Varsoon replied to my reply. What do you think of Varsoon chainsaw defending you? So why don't YOU reply to my reply instead of lying and claiming that I didn't?

Town don't know who the other town are, true, but there's still no reason to out a confirmed townie. Now sure, if said confirmed townie was about to get lynched then yea, I could justify outing my read but outing it for shits and giggles? Hell no.

I'm also calling bullshit on you being gone last weekend. You posted like 5 times on Saturday. Why did you lie?

Please see above for a reason to out a confirmed townie. I don't see what you're on about saying it'll help scum find a townie to kill, they know who the townies are. And no you didn't respond to my post, I want you to explain why you didn't investigate me - your top scumread both before and after the night because the fact that you didn't is by far the biggest scumtell I've seen so far in this game.

As for Varsoon defending me, I'm not even sure what you're talking about. I assume you're referring to post 192 but I don't see any sign of defence there, he just saw my logic and didn't want to have to wait for me to come back online again to explain it to you.

In reply to me being away, in England we had a bank holiday (three day weekend) and I think I got a bit confused about which day was which, it was saturday afternoon to monday afternoon i was busy rather than friday afternoon to sunday afternoon.

[orozorro]

Follow me here. Scum kill those players whom they can't lynch. If I said "Hey town, never lynch player X 'cause he's confirmed town" Town will not lynch that slot and therefore harms the mafia b/c that's one less mislynchable player. So they'll eventfully kill it.

We have 16 hours and your plan is to have me confirm a town slot and then lynch me? That in no way helps the town at all. Whatever information that I give town, I'm also giving scum. Telling that that I have an inno read on Player X allows them to not try and push for a lynch on that slot and may help me (and others once I out said reads) judge reactions.. This whole "well we might waste our time by pushing our an innocent play!" But that hasn't happened yet, should that situation arise then that would be a valid argument but there's no point in discussing about perhaps and maybe situations.

For why I didn't cop you. Lets say I got a guilty read on you. It would be pretty easy for you and your scum buddy to go "oh, how convenient that you got a guilty on me." + there are other players in this game.

If Varsoon saw you're logic and I disproved his logic...what does that make you think?

Going by your logic, it'd be better to out that innocent player because it would make you a less likely NK and we'd be less likely to lose a PR. And you could get another chance to hit scum. And just because we haven't discussed said innocent as a possible lynch candidate doesn't mean that there's no benefit to us knowing. If we know for sure that a player is innocent, we can know for sure that he's not pushing for a mislynch and don't have to worry about scummy intentions.

As for not copping me, I'm afraid I don't believe you. The role of a cop is to find scum, not find town, so your investigation should have been on your top scumread, regardless of whether that player is gonna dispute it later.

I don't think that you have disproved his logic, and I'm not convinced by your explanation so my vote is staying on you for now.

[orozorro]

lolwhat. Hiraki was cop but didn't counterclaim?

I haven't played many games here but I haven't heard of having more than one cop in a game. Can someone (that isn't Nero) correct me if I'm wrong about this?

Nero, feel free to share your 'results' from last night, you have one post or 24 hours (whichever happens first) to convince me that you're town before I vote you to be lynched. I suggest that in that post you explain in depth who you supposedly investigated each night, your reasons for choosing to investigate them and the results.

[orozorro]

oh that's pretty funny. Look at scumOro puffing up his chest and being forceful.

n1-Hiraki (inno)
n2- Savage (inno)

The reason that Hiraki didn't CC is 'cause he knew there was more than one cop. My pm and I'm sure his specifically states that sanities are not guaranteed. Considering that I got an inno on Hiraki who flipped town, I'd wager that I'm sane and unless Savage is an investigation immune then he's town wich means the two scum are between Varsoon, Oro and Tam.

So neither of the two players you investigated were your prime suspects? I can't possibly understand how any legitimate cop would not investigate their top scumreads and combined with your blatant hopping of wagons in the early game and the fact that Hiraki flipped cop, I really don't see how you could be town.

VOTE: Nero

[orozorro]

GG guys, I can see why the cops are frustrated, it's a shame Nero was the only one we lynched. I had fun though As for varsoon and me thinking nero was a rolecop (although I don't think I personally made that clear), it wasn't a scumtell - I'm just a newb and forgot that cops and rolecops arent the same thing.