Micro 250: Lucky's Great Idea Halloween Spooktacular!

[Grimgroove]

What is this? There's something very wrong.
Have I possibly gone daffy?


VOTE: Guyett

I feel the warmth that's coming from inside.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuWD-mSUtrU

[Grimgroove]

Are there jesters possible in this game?
If not: hammer Guyett! Seriously! Nothing as scummy as a self-vote during RVS.
If yes: Keep Guyett alive, he's probably a jester.

[Grimgroove]

UNVOTE:

However fun it would be if this would actually be correct, his lynch wouldn't get us much useful right now. A bit too much of a lottery.

But Guyett is definitely on my scum-radar.

[Grimgroove]

You know what.
Fuck it, I'm feeling lucky today.
No hard feelings I hope Guyett

VOTE: Guyett

If it makes you feel any better, if you flip town I'll probably get lynched over this myself.

[Grimgroove]

Are you town?

[Grimgroove]

BEST LYNCH EVER!

[Grimgroove]

I read you like an open book Guyett. Your "haha" did you in.
Told you you shouldn't post drunk :p

[Grimgroove]

I'm pretty town right?

[Grimgroove]

mnemonic didn't come online since the night started, might be the reason nothing happened last night. Checked his profile.

The hammer: I felt confident, I felt it was my lucky day, and I was right. It helps that I can read Guyett like few others.

The way I see it: we start this game now, but with a bonus of having lynched a third party. And nothing happening in the night could point to something. Eithe rmnemonic, for simply not having been here tos ubmit his night action, or someone of scum having been blocked.

That or we only got cult as an enemy left. And whoever he recruited last night.

[Grimgroove]

VOTE: Grimegrove Intentional misspelling.

Can you explain that intentional misspelling? I don't get it.

Not liking these people out to policy lynch me, but let's see what happens next.

@Phorkens: There's a cult one-shot recruiter at the bottom of the list.

It would explain the no kills, which is really odd for a N1, and this game still continuing.

My money right now: either mnemonic (for,a s far as I can tell, not having come online) or agi102, for calling cults worthless. It doesn't make them less of an enemy and they are extremely difficult to find during day-interactions. And I think there's this mechanic that when the cult recruiter dies, the recruited becomes a killer. I would not call them worthless at all.

[Grimgroove]

Guyett was scum because of the self-vote and the air of carelessness he tried to portray. It felt completely unnatural and I picked up on it, because I know him.

I hammered because I had the opportunity, and because it was easier than to convince you gys, because my argument was basically meta, which is very good for convinving yourself, but very useless when it comes to convincing others.

[Grimgroove]

I don't remember, but I think there's an investigative role that searches for Cult so presumably yes?

And here he seems to be fishing for a cult investigator's identity.

Not liking agi102.

[Grimgroove]

VOTE: agi102

[Grimgroove]

Tell me, how do you catch cult? Aside from a night action like a cult investigator, it's extremely difficult to find them because you got no night-kills to analyze. And yes, they're a small group. That doesn' tmake them less powerful. On the contrary. They can hide among a barrage of mislynches, and their smallness also prevents them from too many associative tells.

If cult is in this game, we're up for a GREAT challenge.

I checked the entire player list. mnemonic is the only one CONFIRMED who didn't come online during the night.

Some others I couldn't check, since they hide their online status, so their profile didn't show that information.

When I found out about that, I decided to hide my onlnie status as well, so that in the event I would be scum, I wouldn't get caught this way. Pro-tip for everyone

[Grimgroove]

I don't remember, but I think there's an investigative role that searches for Cult so presumably yes?

How would you remember an investigative role that searches for cult in that list, but not cult itself?

This line is a cult-slip. It wants to portray that it doesn't know anything about cult being in this game too hard.

Lynch him. Quickly.

[Grimgroove]

I don't like Porkens either. I think we should lynch him during Day 3.

I'll bite, Grim jumping to conclusions about Scum No-Killing is icky but a random comment about a Cult is worse

VOTE: agi

I also agree with and will reiterate that while yesterday's lynch was awful in timing/information gleaned, we've basically just got another start to the game - a Third Party and + a little speculation room about our possible Roles

If you think the random comment about Cult is worse, then why aren't you voting for Grim?

If Guyett had flipped town, I don't think there would be any question that Grim would be eating rope today.

Why do you think he is less suspicious for hammering 3rd party over hammering town? How can that possibly make a difference on your read of him?

And Grim, had he been scum, would have known not to lynch someone who could potentially flip town and lead to his lynch the very next day. That would just be bad play.

You're saying that if Grim is scum, he would never lynch anybody except his partners. That is ridiculous.

I guess it just boils down to WIFOM, but overall, I don't think scum would have gained much from hammering Guyett, town or not. I'm not trying to "defend" Grim, just stating my opinion on why I think he's town.

Why do you feel the need to state that opinion?

agi needs to STFU

when a day lasts 14 hours you can go literally jerk yourself off about us "not being here"

all of you are at fault for yesterday's clusterfuck of a stupid lynch, and you should feel bad

Even... me? To be fair, though, he did turn out being a 3rd party when Grim and I both had him as scum, but yeah, hammering on page 2 probably wasn't the best idea.

Don't get me wrong, I love a good page 2 hammer, but Scum know a lot more than town about what they are hammering, and they have a chance to get rid of a pesky PR. That can be

well

worth the risk of suspicion.

Phok is defending Grime a lot with these two posts, and I don't understand why.

mnemonic didn't come online since the night started, might be the reason nothing happened last night. Checked his profile.

The hammer: I felt confident, I felt it was my lucky day, and I was right. It helps that I can read Guyett like few others.

The way I see it: we start this game now, but with a bonus of having lynched a third party. And nothing happening in the night could point to something. Eithe rmnemonic, for simply not having been here tos ubmit his night action, or someone of scum having been blocked.

That or we only got cult as an enemy left. And whoever he recruited last night.

If this were a swift game, I would give this theory more credence. As it sits, I dunno. The last few games I can remember, the scum have submitted night actions in QT.

Can there be cult at all?

You've been asking people why they defend me, why they aren't voting me.

For someone who seems so obsessed with how people treat me, you haven't really tried to interact with me at all.

Question: Why aren't YOU voting me?

Also not liking your last question of "Can there be a cult at all?", because I suspect you know damn well there can be.

[Grimgroove]

Don't get me wrong, I love a good page 2 hammer, but Scum know a lot more than town about what they are hammering, and they have a chance to get rid of a pesky PR. That can be

well

worth the risk of suspicion.

Phok is defending Grime a lot with these two posts, and I don't understand why.

Vote: Phok

[...]

If this were a swift game, I would give this theory more credence. As it sits, I dunno. The last few games I can remember, the scum have submitted night actions in QT.

Can there be cult at all?

Last quote got messed up.

[Grimgroove]

Game specific rules

1. The roles will be

randomly

generated until there is a town majority.

If this were designed as an 8 person game, wouldn't there be less scum?

Porkens plz. There is no "design".

[Grimgroove]

Just because I didn't know a cult was here

But you DID know, because you knew there was some kind of cult investigator. You said that yourself. But then you proceeded to pretend you still didn't know, which is just ridiculous.

What you tried to tell us was that you remember a cult investigator from reading the list of possible roles, but somehow, magically, completely forgot about a one-shot cult recruiter being in that list as well. This makes no sense. None.

You are going to be lynched and you are going to flip cult.

[Grimgroove]

No. We need an intent to hammer and a claim at the very least.

aptil, provide reasons for why you're not thinking agi is scum.

What is all this "for now"-business about anyway?

[Grimgroove]

Newbies can be scum too. Just because he looks like a newbie doesn't mean he isn't. In fact, the slip heavily suggests he is. You can't just put a blanket over that and call it "newbie".

How has phokdapolees been opportunistic?

[Grimgroove]

You are tiring.

I don't remember, but I think there's an investigative role that searches for Cult so presumably yes?

[Grimgroove]

Give it a rest with your stupid insinuations already. Either get to the point or move on.

After seeing nobody was killed during the night, despite there still being enemies to town (otherwise this game would have ended), I saw two immediate possibilities:

1. Cult. So I went to check the list again, and lo-and-behold, a 1-shot cult recruiter.
2. No action was sent-in. So I went to check the profiles, and found mnemonic did not come onlnie during the night.

I shared both possibilities. The mnemonic-track is uncertain because a lot of people hide their onlnie status, making them immune to the investigation I carried out in point 2. Someone brought up the idea of there being a scum-QT, but if no action was given due to absent scum, it's highly probable we're talking about a one-man-team, hence: no QT.

I hared idea number 1, and got a very interesting,v ery nervous result from agi, the newbie who's still getting used to lying.

If you can't see the paradox that lies within 59, the paradox that makes agi a confirmed liar and very probably a cult one, you eiter don't want to see it, or you cannot see it due to natural constrictions I'll try not to hold against you.

[Grimgroove]

Also, I really don't appreciate your insults.

I never insulted you. I insulted your insinuations. If you don't appreciate my insults on your insinuations, the answer is clear: stop your insinuations.

[Grimgroove]

My point, which I thought I had already gotten to, is that you brought up the possibility of a cult first, but Agi is catching the heat for "cult speculation."

This is wrong. Agi is not getting the heat for cult speculation. Agi is getting the heat for something else that you still are intent on missing.
If you dare, if you DARE, to ask me to point out what is is yet again, I will... INSULT YOU!!! Yes!!! I'll hit you where it obviously hurts and insult you!

[Grimgroove]

Agi, despite the very suspect BW on you, your reactions have been scummy. You need to convince me not to hammer with your next post.

Urgh. You're scum.

Why is the BW suspect if the reactions ave beens cummy?
If the reactions have been scummy, there's an objective reason for a wagon, making it non-suspect.
If the wagon is scummy, the reactions by Agi must be non-scummy, which you state they are not.

This, dear Porkens, my dearest friend, is a WAFFLE. I'd evenc all it a waffle-bus, but I admit that might be a stretch.

I'm happy with the intent to hammer.

Agi: time to claim. Part of procedure.

[Grimgroove]

And now we can lynch agi.

See you guys toMorrow!

[Grimgroove]

You are no cop, agi102. If I hadn't been on your wagon already, I'd hammer you on the spot.

[Grimgroove]

There's a crumb?

That changes everything.

UNVOTE:

[Grimgroove]

There's a crumb?

That changes everything.

UNVOTE:

[Grimgroove]

This is a false dichotomy. Both the wagon on him and his reactions to it were scummy.

Please explain this to me how that can work?

[Grimgroove]

I don't see the crumb. Where is the crumb?

[Grimgroove]

The wagon itself is built on this clut-slip nonsense.

It was not nonsense and 117 should make clear why it was not. Do you actually believe that stuff?

There is no crumb.

I know you don't like me porkens and I understand why you don't, but try to look through my arrogance and just get on this case with me and try to see it does make sense.


agi102, what made you decide to check on aptil? You entered this day with a clear focus on me, the man who quickhammered. Why didn't you have that focus when deciding who to check?

[Grimgroove]

VOTE: agi102

L-1 again.

If I'm such a clear scumfuck, why did you remove your vote from me in 65?

[Grimgroove]

Why are you, in a time like this, where you're at L-1 and being questioned, thinking about SPAG?

[Grimgroove]

If anyone's wondering where agi102 got inspiration for his cop-claim, check his wiki-page.

[Grimgroove]

Tell me agi102, given you're such an evident fan of statistics, what do you think the chance is of getting Town Cop twice in a row, in the first two games you play on MS? For someone who's been going on about how slim the chance is of picking cult, I'm surprised you're not more surprised about the sheer improbability of what just happened to you.

[Grimgroove]

@mod

: Could you update your opening post please? List of dead people, important events, etc. It's really helpful.

[Grimgroove]

Grim, why aren't you dead?

Even though you retracted that question, I'd like to know what you were thinking when posing it.

[Grimgroove]

No way he flips cult, but:

Why were you so sure he wasn't going to flip cult?

[Grimgroove]

Catching up today. Glad to see some content!

[Grimgroove]

Because the argument that he was cult was bad.

It wasn't, you just keep misunderstanding it.
There was an obvious LIE in Agi's statement, a lie that I think only a cultist would have reason to make. Apparently I was wrong about the second part, but I was right about it being a lie.

And even if an argument is bad, that's no reason to exclude the possibility of agi cult at that time. I did not like this certainty because it simultaneuosly discredits my reads as well as somehow makes yours look more dependable. As far as I can see, they're not. There was no way you could know Agi wasn't going to flip cult based on these Day interactions alone, so I keep wondering how you DID know, or why you chose to pretend that you did.

[Grimgroove]

This is really some kind of cop-out. Despite the quick end to D1, I'd think you'd have had time to sort out what's what a little better than this.

vs.

I think the fact that D1 ended so early, and D2 as well despite the good lynch, really hurt us. It's Friday night, so I honestly don't expect much for a day or so with Halloween parties and stuff going on, but I'm hoping yall can give me more info than what I got by reading two phases spanning only 5 pages.

There is something counterintuitive there. You seem tob e bothered a great deal by phokdapolees not giving great reads, only later to admit that the circumstances haven't beenr eally there for such reads.

Regardless of that, no, it didn't hurt us. This is, once again, a restart of the game, just like on Day 2, only now with one werewolf less to worry about.

Did mnemonic come online during the night? The only place where I remember his name from is the Replacement Queue, where almost every mod was looking for one due to him dissappearing. It's pretty Obvious the same will happen here, but if his absence can clear his slot from last night's murder, that's wonderful.

Given the way agi102 was talking, I'm fairly certain he was operating alone. "

I

tried to kill Grimgroove" really stood out to me in that regard.

phokdapolees is town.

[Grimgroove]

I'm thinking I need to go back and look (MYSELF) to see who Guyett inferred his Lynchee was
I'm thinking I need to go back and look (MYSELF) to see who Guyett's hammerer was

Why is this relevant?

Guyett already stated that his lynchee was phokdapolees. There was no inferrence. It's there in black on white and impossible to miss, especially if you go back and look (YOURSELF).

This tells me you DIDN'T go back to see. Why didn't you?

[Grimgroove]

Is it even possible for you to have been Guyett's target? I thought lynchers went for above or below on the player list?

Is it even possible for you guys to keep talking about this without even bothering to go check? Everyone keeps going on about how little content there is in this game, but if you go about ignoring what IS there I'm not surprised you feel that way.

[Grimgroove]

Regarding maestro: trust me on this.

lol

[Grimgroove]

mnemonic last online: 28 Oct 2013, 06:30

Night started on 29th October.

mnemonic didn't do the kill.

[Grimgroove]

I think this is another false dichotomy. The short days were bad for town because we don't know anything about the players in the game.

Having said that,

despite the short days, two or three of us have reads and have been talking about them. There is no problem with suspecting someone who has been coasting.

It is not a false dichotomy. It is a true one. Even your post has it, you simply linked it with the words "having said that", but what you said before those words go directly against what you said afterwards. If you don't know anything about players, you can't have reads on them. You can't have it both ways Porkens, and you definitely don't get to call me out over false dichotomies if they are clearly not.

[Grimgroove]

I'm really uncomfortable with this kind of evidence. I feel like it's abuse of the forum mechanics to gain advantage. Of course, it's in my brain now, but, yeah, I don't like it at all.

Whether you like it or not is irrelevant.
It is allowed according to the rules.
It is one of the most objective arguments you can get.
We'd be crazy not to use it. The mnemonic-slot did not commit the murder and it's good for town to know this.

[Grimgroove]

Really? I think his screams of "DON'T FORGET, APTIL IS CONFTOWN!" was probably a message to his partner.

You do realize that without agi telling us that aptil wasn't scum, aptil would never have been conftown in the first place, right? Why would agi share this information, only to force his partner in the position of having to kill him? agi could have shut up about it and leave Aptil as "conftown" as the rest of us.

Also, aptil wasn't conftown. He was only conf-not mafia.
The fact you considered him conftown might point at a reason why

you

'd want him killed. We've got motive.

[Grimgroove]

Ok, thanks, that makes sense to me. So now I really don't know why agi was so emphatic about restating his reports after his lynch.

Because he was the only werewolf, like I told you.

[Grimgroove]

We're looking for at most 3 people and at least 1. I'd go with this order:

Phok
Penguin
Grim
Porky
Maestro

This list is incongruent with what you have voiced earlier. Can you explain the idea behind the order of this list?

[Grimgroove]

Also, still waiting on that phok town read explanation.

Gut. The thing with townreads is that they don't require substantial proof, because it's hard to give it. Anything town could come from scum just playing really well.

The burden of argument is on you in this case, where you need to convince people phokdapolees is scum.

I don't like the reasons for your push on phokdapolees at the moment.

[Grimgroove]

We're looking for at most 3 people and at least 1. I'd go with this order:

Phok
Penguin
Grim
Porky
Maestro

This list is incongruent with what you have voiced earlier. Can you explain the idea behind the order of this list?

Never mind about the oncongruence, mixed you up with penguin_alien.
Would still like you tio explain the order in that list though.

[Grimgroove]

Sorry guys, been being a lazy fuck lately, will catch up and post tonight or tomorrow.

Today is tomorrow.
Post.

[Grimgroove]

Yeah, I get that...so what was his motivation? Pro town werewolf?

LMAO as ridiculous as this is I could totally see it. Kinda like "if you can't beat em, join em".

Guyett did the same at first, though based on a faulty premise he had similar intentions. It's not against their wincon, certainly not after they got lynched so it's not that ridiculous. It does confirm agi being a lone wolf.

[Grimgroove]

Actually, theres 6 of us? We're looking for at most 2 people. That's not terrible but this is effectively lylo.

If you really think/consider this is LyLo, why are you so comfortable being the second vote on an L-2 wagon?

[Grimgroove]

conclusion to that last sentence is... so either he is scum or scum on the wagon.

Or this isn't LyLo.

My question to you was basically to giv e aword of explanation with your lynch-order-preference-list.
First I thought I spotted an inconsistency but then noticed I mixed you up with penguin_alien. But I'd still like to hear some explanation of why you put certain people on a certain spot on your list, especially given you just said that anyone could be anything in this game due to the fluffy cotton nothing.

[Grimgroove]

Why do you only explain your townreads?

You agreed with me that menmonic didn't commit last night's kill. Why is that slot (now penguin_alien) your second scumread?

[Grimgroove]

i'd rather go after strong scum read today and sort out tomorrow poe after we get any info from night 3

If you think this is LyLo, why didn't you propose the idea for a massclaim?

I can't help but feel a certain "rush" in your actions today which is at odds with a LyLo-situation, and I don't like it.

[Grimgroove]

Actually, theres 6 of us? We're looking for at most 2 people. That's not terrible but this is effectively lylo.

Or this isn't LyLo.

If there's only 1 left, then yes, this is next-to-lylo. but in a game like this i don't think scum would have any more clue than we do if it is lylo or not, because there's aliens and sk and shit in the list too, right

If there's aliens and sk's and shit, we're not looking for at the most 2 people.
Your axioms during this stage are all over the place!

[Grimgroove]

agi needs to STFU

when a day lasts 14 hours you can go literally jerk yourself off about us "not being here"

all of you are at fault for yesterday's clusterfuck of a stupid lynch, and you should feel bad

Scum-Maestro doesn't seem like the type to get pissy over town lynching an anti-town role. Probably genuine and town.

Ironic though that he ended up "not being there" after all.

I don't see anything particularly town in that reaction. As scum he'd feel confident in that particular argument because agi's argument didn't make much sense at the time. Though given MAestro's later behavior following this post, there's a certain dishonesty in him getting worked up over being called inactive, as he obviously doesn't mind being inactive as much as he portrayed in this reaction.

[Grimgroove]

It matters to me I just don't have time right now

Maestro, please explain why you maybe being Guyett's target mattered to you.

[Grimgroove]

you guys keep inferring shit about why I wanted to know wo guyett's arget was

I didn't want to know it was me, I didn't think it was me

Tell us what you did want to know then and why.

[Grimgroove]

VOTE: Maestro

[Grimgroove]

No worries, I won't ask you again.

[Grimgroove]

Note to others:

It matters to me I just don't have time right now

Here Maestro claimed not to want to answer due to time constraints.

no

Here his refusal is obviously based on principle.

This is interesting.

[Grimgroove]

I asked Mod question, checked wiki, doesn't matter why I wanted to know at this point because it's null and distracts from the game

The only reason why it's still a distraction to the game is your refusal to answer a quite innocent question.

(<3)

[Grimgroove]

Grim you are misunderstanding me. I'm going to work atm and don't have time but we'll chat when I get home.

What happened to this?

[Grimgroove]

Ok, I'm gonna ISO those, and see what I find.

No follow-up.

[Grimgroove]

All I was saying about phok was that he has less a handle on this game in terms of reads than I do

I'm having a hard time sticking with it for this game. I have no other word for the thread other than "fluffy cotton nothing". Like, nothing. I see a buncha people who could be fuckin anything lol.

How do you have a stronger handle on this game than phok in terms of reads?

@Porkens

: DO NOT INTERFERE! This is not a false dichotomy and even if it is, I want ETL to answer to this first.

[Grimgroove]

pork has some good ideas.

Porky don't go trashing the good read I had on you now...

We're looking for at most 3 people and at least 1. I'd go with this order:

Phok
Penguin
Grim

Porky

Maestro

I think porky's more likely town than not.

ETL: Explain your read progression on Porkens.

[Grimgroove]

Grim you are misunderstanding me. I'm going to work atm and don't have time but we'll chat when I get home.

What happened to this?

I was tired. Sorry.

You can't expect this argument to convince me?
Given a certain site-wide rule I cannot show why this is not true, but consider yourself my main scumread as of now.

[Grimgroove]

All I was saying about phok was that he has less a handle on this game in terms of reads than I do

I'm having a hard time sticking with it for this game. I have no other word for the thread other than "fluffy cotton nothing". Like, nothing. I see a buncha people who could be fuckin anything lol.

How do you have a stronger handle on this game than phok in terms of reads?

@Porkens

: DO NOT INTERFERE! This is not a false dichotomy and even if it is, I want ETL to answer to this first.

Based on his responses, it was my impression he either didnt have an opinion or didnt want to give one.

What responses by phokdapolees stuck out to you in that regard?

[Grimgroove]

VOTE: EspeciallyTheLies

[Grimgroove]

Me scumreading and voting you does not preclude giving you the chance to get your posts together.

I'm getting more and more confident in my scumread on you, your "case" on phokdapolees, in so far that is exists, is fraught with hypocrisy and your read-progression on Porkens (and on Maestro, for that matter) looks artificial. That's what I'm seeing right now.

[Grimgroove]

Processing ETL's latest posts.

[Grimgroove]

Porkens, you are putting too much weight on that argument. It's really not such a big deal. Tunnel exit to your right, taking you to lynch-ETL-lane.

Doesn't ETL's one-eighty make you wonder, even if only a little bit?

I'm too tired tonight to put down a case, but I'm not convinced by ETL's turn-around in the slightest. (Sorry ETL, still love ya <3)

I have an explanation for my phokdapolees townread that goes beyond gut. Will you trust me on that, at least?

[Grimgroove]

Not really sure on how to go about this, so what I'll be donig may not come off as very structured. I'll just respond to ETL's posts where I see fit, and try to provide them with the context that are my thoughts.

Thats fine. Just because I post something I am certain of somewhere and avoid doing work somewhere else is not and should not be alignment indicative for you. I said I'd get to it tonight;

you can choose to scum read me for that or give me a chance to get my posts together. That's up to you

This was in reference to her "I was tired. Sorry."-line and me scumreading her for it. I still think that line was a lie but there's no way for me to prove that, so just consider that a personal reason to scumread her.

The thing in bold is an AtE before she actually gets down to business. Porkens should love that line in bold because there's a false dichotomy inthere, or at the very least an overreaction.

Evidently not the biggest problem of ETL, but this introduction did cement my scumread on her further.

[Grimgroove]

In general terms, EspeciallyTheLies turn-around feels forced and is entirely reactionary. I called her out for bad reads before. She tried to explain them, but upon noticing that explanation wouldn't cut it anymore, she decided to simply change those reads. And not even a little bit. Her townread on Pokrnes has changed to a scumread. Her townread on Maestro has changed to a possible scumread. The leantownread on me has turned into a strong townread. The scumread on phokdapolees has turned in a townread.

EVERYTHING changed. The only thing that has remained the same is the nullread on penguin_alien. Does that sound like something you can simply attribute to laziness? Because that's her big defense. Eveything I've called scummy, she simply covered up with the blanket of "laziness". There's a lot of scummdust on her psots but she simply wipes it under a carpet of readjusted reads and some newly found motivation to get her head in the game.

EspeciallyTheLies was never lazy. At least she did everything in her power not to appear as such. She called phokdapolees out for not having as good a grip on the game as she did (despite her laziness?), she provided criticism on the lack of liveliness of the game (171, doesn't sound like someone being lazy), and expressed clear motivation to get things moving in 174. This is not a lazy person we're looking at.

In 180 there's even a hint of disdain for the little content we have provided, as "it was merely 5 pages" that did not give her enough information. Today we hear that she's been "too lazy" to actually read those five pages. It doesn't add up.

Just put EspeciallyTheLies from before I called her out, and you get the exact opposite of what we're seeing now. It's as if starting from 293 we have entered the Mirror Realm, where everything is upside down.

Let's get into a concrete comparison. I asked this question:

Why do you only explain your townreads?

You agreed with me that menmonic didn't commit last night's kill. Why is that slot (now penguin_alien) your second scumread?

This is a question I asked ETL quite a while ago. I find it telling she chose to answer it twice.

This was her first answer:

he's not. i suppose i should have broke nthem up better

town:
me
maestro

prob town
porky
you

unkonwn
peng


scum
phok

just cuz he didn't make last night's kill doesn't mean he's not something else, but i don't wna to lynch him today

beacuse

he didn't.

I don't know if I answered this already or not

, but basically, I prefer to find town first and then compare what's left with the content in their ISOs. I was being a lazy sack and picked porkens as my first based on his interactions with me when I first replaced in and tried to figure the game out from there. But I believe at this point that I picked wrong.

Of course she knew this was answered before. The thing in bold is another one of those LIES. Really, there's no way around it.

The fact she answers it AGAIN shows concern over the first answer she gave. It's more scumdust that needs wiping away, so she decides to further "clarify" her answer.

Lunchbreak. Be back later.

[Grimgroove]

I think it's the best lead we got and I see no reason not to follow it.

Going to continue with more detailed comments later.

[Grimgroove]

Yes, I'm afraid so.

[Grimgroove]

Everything I say will be twisted by you. It already has been.

No.

[Grimgroove]

Porkens was posting actively and discussing things with me, and that gave me good feels, but his ISO looks more like a vendetta against phok than anything else.

This is the only argument you have against Porkens. Yet the thing you describe could just as easily be tunneling town. What makes you think Porkens is not tunneling town?

[Grimgroove]

Well, maybe there's no point in explaining it to me, but you can always hope you can convince the other players.

It's true I'd very much like to lynch you, but I won't be able to do it on my own.

[Grimgroove]

Sorry you decided to take my case to the personal level, but I refuse going down that road. Your anger, if at all genuine, is misplaced.

[Grimgroove]

I'll be slightly irked if I just bought into an ATE, but that seems genuine to me.

That's the thing about AtEs, they always seem genuine. I HATE it when they're being used and i'll tell you why in a moment.


Also: phokdapolees is town. When are you getting that in your head?

[Grimgroove]

Sorry you decided to take my case to the personal level, but I refuse going down that road. Your anger, if at all genuine, is misplaced.

You don't understand.

I do understand. You said I made you angry "at a personal level". Literally. That's taking cases I make on the personal level, loud and clear, and it sucks for you to do that. I gave you no reason to be angry on a personal level.

I'll tell you something: I don't care if you're angry given those circumstances. Even if you would end up being town, I will not give a single shit. Me being possibly wrong is part of the game. Do not even think for a moment you'll convince me with the feels and I strongly suggest you drop that approach immediately.

I'm angry because, from my point of view, I'm damned if do and damned if I don't.

You've only got yourself to blame for that. Your one-eighty has been a reactionary one, a reaction to me calling you out for bad reasons that were left unexplained, and for scumreads that were hypocritical. You couldn't explain them, so what do you do? Change them and hope we forget. That's what damned you.

It is more about your attitude than your ability or willingness to scumhunt.

Willingness? That's rich for someone who claimed not to have had said willingness for more than half of the game? I think I showed plenty of willingness to scumhunt. As for ability: my case on you has been perceived as a good one. Even by you, in the beginning, where you said you could understand my point of view. What happened to that? You thought you could explain away my suspicions just because you showed "honesty" over having been lazy? While you have been using that very same argument against phokdapolees to paint him off as scum?

You should have the perspective of skeptical observation. It is one thing to be suspicious of someone and have good reason and choose to follow up on those reasons.

That's exactly what I'm doing.

It is another to simply write off any response with "Oh that's bullshit".

I showed why it's bullshit. Through dichotomies and all. And it was never my only response. I asked you questions. For instance, why Porkens couldn't be tunneling town instead of scum with a vendetta? You don't explain that read. You don't explain why you think one over the other,y et your vote is there, with an air of confidence that is entirely misplaced given the lack of arguments. Instead of explaining, you wallow in self-pity about me not listening to your answers anyway. NOT BUYING IT!

Your only reason for saying is because you don't believe it and you can't explain why. Tell me one good reason, that it is not plausible I could possibly be telling you the truth other than "I said so".

I have given you plenty of reasons. Your play was reactionary, your defensive arguments ALL appeal to emotions and are impossible to be checked within the realm of this topic, your indignation over me scumreading you is over-the-top, your arguments against phokdapolees were hypocritical, you only have ONE argument of defense: you were lazy. Fuck. That. Even if you were lazy, what tells me you weren't lazy scum? Because the hypocrisy sure points that way.

You asked me questions I couldn't answer because I didn't do more than skim the thread. When I brushed you off, you insisted, forcing me to actually play the game.

I think that should rather make me look good.

There are two forces at work here that you don't seem to get. The first is that

I'm genuinely fucking busy

.

Glad you found time for such an extensive AtE.
In any case, even if you are budy, you cannot expect this argument to have any impact on me. I can't and won't be looking into your personal agenda.

The second is that I don't particularly care for Great/Greater/Greatest idea games and I didn't even know that's what I was replacing into until it was done. I replaced based on the mod.

For someone who doesn't like Great Ideas you sure have subscribed to many of them considering all these games you were in, including this one:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=32458
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=29472
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=30941 (you didn't participate in this one, but showed great excitement over the game in the one post you made as an observer)
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=27884
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=29714
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=29624

I didn't even fucking know whatshisface was talking about YOU when he kept saying "Grime". I thought there was another player with a similar name. I didn't bother or care to look because I was not interested here. Get it?

Then why did you pretend to be?

So then, out of fairness to the other players, I chose to stop being a dick and actually read the thread.

Mighty big of you.

My "at-a-glance" reads were clearly incorrect and I adjusted them.

Clearly? How so, clearly? None of the arguments you provided where pivotal enough to make things suddenly so abudnatly "clear". Porkens is not clearly scum. There is nothing clear about your townread on him having been wrong.

So, instead of being scummy for not giving a fuck, now I'm scummy for giving a fuck. Please explain the logic here.

I never said you were scummy for "giving a fuck". Never. Not once. I'm saying you're scummy for having pretended to give a fuck, and having been caught on it.
You suddenly expect me to townread you now simply because you somehow got to your feet and gave reads that are the exact opposite of what you gave before. THAT'S JUST NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

You wanna catch scum or you wanna continue fucking around with me? It's a fucking distraction. It's a waste of time. And it does not fucking help us. If you have any actual intention of determining my alignment, then do that.

For someone who's busy you sure repeat yourself a lot.

Don't just write off what I'm saying because you don't believe it.

I'm not just "writing it off". I'm saying WHY I don't believe it.

You don't have a fucking clue what's going on in my life.

Don't expect me to.

I'm not even asking you to give a shit about that.

Then why bring it up? (I'll answer that for you: AtE)

I'm only asking you to take it under consideration when you are reading things. Consider the possibility that there is truth there.

Given you townread me I see no reason why you should think I haven't done exactly that.


EspeciallyTheLies is scum.

[Grimgroove]

And I'm just going to go right ahead and tell you all why I think phokdapolees is town. I don't want his wagon to be a distraction anymore.


Remember agi, the werewolf cop?

He claimed two things:
1. He checked Aptil and checked him as town.
2. He tried to kill me and failed.

Why did he fail to kill me?

He can't have been blocked, because otherwise his check-result wouldn't have come through.

It had nothing to do with my own role. I've got no tricks up my sleeve when it comes to self-defence.

I myself see no reason for him to lie about it. He hasn't lied about the aptil-check, why would he lie about him having tried to kill me? The only reason I could see if me being his werewolf buddy, but I'm in a position of knowing that is not the case.

So why didn't I die?

I see only one possibility: someone prevented that from happening through an action on me. First guess is protection, but it could be something else.

Looking at the ISOs, I see only one person who's been consistently townreading me. And I see only one person who would have been willing and to protect me during night 1.

I'm pretty sure phokdapolees was my guardian angel that night.

[Grimgroove]

@Mod: Deadline extension pls? At least for one day? It's currently in the middle of the weekend, and lots of people will probably be V/LA (Maestro already mentioned he would be V/LA until Monday)

[Grimgroove]

His tunnel on phokdapolees is annoying.

But other than that, his reads progression looks natural and I like the way he interacts with me. He's sometimes a bit stubborn but I don't see any malicious intent behind this stubborn behavior. He's one of the only players around who actually give me the impression they want to get things moving and figure things out.

[Grimgroove]

Also, please vote for the deadline extension :p

[Grimgroove]

[Grimgroove]

[Grimgroove]

No response to me finding your blatant lie about not liking the game set-up of "great idea"? No comments at all to 354?

Yes, Maestro and penguin should vote you. Why them though? Why not Porkens?

[Grimgroove]

Context matters.

I do understand. You said I made you angry "at a personal level". Literally. That's taking cases I make on the personal level, loud and clear, and it sucks for you to do that. I gave you no reason to be angry on a personal level.

I'll tell you something: I don't care if you're angry given those circumstances. Even if you would end up being town, I will not give a single shit. Me being possibly wrong is part of the game. Do not even think for a moment you'll convince me with the feels and I strongly suggest you drop that approach immediately.

The me not giving a shit is about your anger. I stand by what I said, you had and have no reason to be angry with me.

And about you not wanting to play future games with me, well, that's up to you. I won't be going out of my way just to avoid you just so you know. I'm above these petty things.

[Grimgroove]

I don't think this is LyLo, of course that part is 100% guesswork so I don't see what good it does to dwell on that too much. The point is we need to find the scummy ones, and I think ETL fits the bill perfectly there.

[Grimgroove]

*cough*

Deadline is in 8 hours.

[Grimgroove]

"get people in here"?
How the hell do you expect me to do that?

Yes, I think I'll just sit around an keep coughing.

*cough*

[Grimgroove]

A claim could do the trick!

*cough*

[Grimgroove]

Did that even mean anything?

[Grimgroove]

The least you could do is state intent to hammer and get a claim out of her. Or something.

[Grimgroove]

Some claims make a difference, but I guess yours doesn't otherwise you would have claimed it I guess.

[Grimgroove]

He has been instructed not to influence the game and serves only as a source of amusement for the game.

Sounds like his regular play to me.

[Grimgroove]

JUST KIDDING GUYETT, LUV YA

[Grimgroove]

phokdapolees claimed to be a doctor and is still alive. That's obviously a huge alarm bell.

Today we'll be mass-claiming. We should first discuss how to go about it.

[Grimgroove]

Also, we're in LyLo. No votes.

[Grimgroove]

Retired werewolf hunter is someone who's immune to werewolf kills.
So whoever killed him was not a werewolf and not linked to ETL or agi.

[Grimgroove]

It occured to me last night that the werewolves may have tried to kill penguin, and that's why we didn't see a kill night 1, rather than a save.

Why would werewolf-agi lie about who he tried to kill?

[Grimgroove]

The same reason he decided to tell the truth about aptil, whatever that reason was.

[Grimgroove]

Can we get this massclaim over with asap please? I've got some thoughts I want to share but first we need them claims.

[Grimgroove]

What?
I'm not a Mason and we're not mason buddies.
Is this you giving up?
Going to post the thoughts I had a bit later on today, but I was already pretty convinced it was you we needed to lynch today.

First, I'll take your kind offer and want Porkens to claim next. To be on the safe side.

[Grimgroove]

I'm a Lover.
Since I'm the only Lover, that makes me essentially a VT.

[Grimgroove]

SuperSaint. The person who hammers a SuperSaint dies.

Maestro's Mason claim is ridiculous and sounds like he's throwing the towel in the ring, for whatever reason. I don't understand that move because his game wasn't lost yet.

Still, I want to be certain, and with a SuperSaint-claim we can actually make sure town wins this game no matter what.

Let's start with the beginning though:

Night 1.

There was no kill during night 1. But agi, the werewolf, claimed to have tried to kill me.

We now know he had no reason to lie about that: with both ETL and agi dead, and a retired werewolf-hunter being killed last night, and this game not being over, we know the following:
* We're looking for 1 enemy.
* That enemy is not a werewolf, and not affiliated with ETL or agi.

The only reason agi could have had to lie about trying to kill me was either because I was on his team, or because phokdapolees was on his team. But we know nobody from the werewolf team is left, so you can rule out me or phokdapolees being werewolves.

So I didn't die. Given your claims, the only reason this could have happened was because phokdapolees protected me.
Does that make him town?

There is the theoretical possibility that he's a Mafia Doctor. But why would a Mafia Doctor bother protecting town, and not go for a kill himself? It offers no benefits, or the chance of it offering benefits is extremely small. Mafia Doctor would have no interest in protecting me because there's no way he could tell that he could use that protection to his advantage like phokdapolees is doing now. And in a small game like this scum would not pass up the chance for a kill.

phokdapolees is conftown.

I am conftown too. Think about it. The fact that the werewolf kill did not happen is explained by phokdapolees' protection. But what about the mafia-kill?

All the remaining players were online during that night. Scum acitvely choosing for a no-kill is not likely due to reasons already stated.
So why didn't it work? Given all the roles are on the table, the only explanation is that mafia also targeted me. And I wouldn't target myself.

That leaves it down to two. Given Maestro's ludicrous claim, I think we should lynch him. But to be on the safe side, Porkens, given the above should be convinced both me and phokdapolees are town, should vote last. Given Porkens, if town, knows Maestro is lying, he can put down that last vote without a care in the world. For me and phokdapolees, the conftowns, it offers the chance to win this game regardless of which of the two unconfirmed slots is scum. If Porkens hammers and Maestro was telling the truth, Porkens dies and town wins after all.

VOTE: Maestro

[Grimgroove]

Very happy with this game. I think this was my best town performance so far, but as acknowledged by Lucky2u, phokdapolees' protection decision made the real difference.
Don't know why Maestro gave up in the end though.

Thank you and good game!

@ETL: I guess this means you do want to play future games with me? You had me worried there for a moment :p

[Grimgroove]

<3