Micro 273: There is Trouble in Paradise (Game Over)

[Kazekirimaru]

/confirm

[Kazekirimaru]

A wild wagon has appeared!

VOTE: JasonWazza

[Kazekirimaru]

Are you an alt, katarina?

Kagami kagami on the wall...

Roleplaying an evil sorcerer, are we?

[Kazekirimaru]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Deltabacon

You seriously fucked up.

[Kazekirimaru]

Why are you taking PhD so seriously when he's obviously RVS voting Wisdom?

[Kazekirimaru]

No, he didn't.

Yes, I am.

[Kazekirimaru]

You're derping. And missing the point entirely.

[Kazekirimaru]

I'm down for a page 2 Delta lynch.

We can get Kat tomorrow. I'll bring snacks.

[Kazekirimaru]

Did you miss it? Nope. Still rolling.

[Kazekirimaru]

Damn. Page three. My dreams are thoroughly crushed.

[Kazekirimaru]

Wisdom, are you for the Delta lynch or no?

I dislike how you're choosing to avoid this lovely wagon over here for your fringe scum read.

[Kazekirimaru]

And why not?

[Kazekirimaru]

I mean, I can understand wanting to draw out the other scum and wanting to solidify more reads today and such, but considering we have two investigative PRs in a 9p set up that can also get drawn out if they talk long enough, pulling the trigger as soon as possible is the optimal play here in my opinion.

---

If anyone else wants to claim intent, hammer, or whatever - go for it. Keep an eye on Wisdom day 2 for me if I don't come back with the snacks.

[Kazekirimaru]

I wouldn't mind a claim first, I just kinda doubt it'll change the outcome. I very much doubt they're anything but scum.

[Kazekirimaru]

That was the appropriate response, didn't really want to get into that state where you're feigning scumhunting from something as unnecessary as this. L pls.

Why feigning? There is a reason people wagon in RVS and that's to get reactions and get the game started. It looks like that's what you wanted to avoid.

As you said, the it's RVS. The votes have no meaning nor does any reaction you try to get. The reactions you get from there are standardized to make it look like someone is scumhunting and trying to make something out of votes that don't carry at all in that game (specifically that wagon and not this L-1).

Why should I try to intervene and get into something not worth investing on. Avoiding it doesn't mean I object to the wagon, I'd say so myself. I just simply don't care.

I wouldn't mind a claim first, I just kinda doubt it'll change the outcome. I very much doubt they're anything but scum.

This is pretty bad, js!

You don't have to make it so obvious you're the other scum, miss. We already know.

[Kazekirimaru]

But at least she did acknowledge that the wagon exist by saying: "Also, did I miss from this Bacon wagon?". Lesser scums will just go "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil". I interpret her lack of additional comments as "not too convinced of the wagon to demand claim". Why did you not ask for her opinion on Deltabacon then?

In contrast to you... you are convinced that Deltabacon is scum but yet avoid asking for claim? If you are worried that he might be PR, why don't you devise a method so that he will survive the night even if he claims?

I kinda like this post though I'm not sure why. Feels like townie paranoia, I think?

So I caused a stir, I misrepped something (until he says he was joking I'm still pretty sure I wasn't misrepping) and then I used a little bit of sarcasm in a response. Which proves I'm scum! Yes! The case has been cracked! (is my sarcasm clear enough now?)
The case on me is weak as shit. It's so very forced and yet it's taken me to L-1. Are we really going to shoot ourselves in the foot this early? It's idiotic at best, lambs to the slaughter-esque at worst. At least 1 scum is on my wagon right now.

I see you're the type to make jokes when you're nervous.

I find it interesting you start cursing after YKV mentions that the lack of it disturbs him.

I'm not a fan of this Bacon wagon. Wisdom is just prodding the the bull without actually doing anything productive. If you were confident he was scum then you'd hammer it without a wince. Fishing for a claim at this point won't make us achieve anything. If there were scum on this wagon I'd say it was

Kazekimaru

I don't agree with Wisdom not ending the Day like I'd like, but I understand his reasons for not doing so. Not sure what you mean by "fishing" in this sense.

If you can't spell my name, "Kaze" will suffice, miss.

I wouldn't mind a claim first, I just kinda doubt it'll change the outcome. I very much doubt they're anything but scum.

How is that not scummy at all? "

Either you claim a PR or get lynched.

" You expect me to ignore that and call Bacon scum?

-looks at my post-

-looks at the italicized statement-

-looks back at my post-

I don't think I said that.

Fair play, if he was trolling then he was trolling and I snapped that shit up hook, line and sinker. In that case, all I'm guilty of is taking things too seriously. I'm still not seeing how taking things seriously is a scumtell (Kaze).

Quit playing stupid.

And wait a second..!
You are calling kaze opportunistic in pushing delta without knowing and without having judged for yourself what delta did? Then how do you know whether kaze is right or not?

++

Also, what Delta did as severely blown out of proportion, though his reaction doesn't help all.

Uhm.

I don't think you can claim what Delta did was blown out of proportion and simultaneously claim not to know what he did at all.

Yeah, I don't think things work that way...

---

YKV is playing like I remember him in that one game where everyone was a random role and he was a Town Guard. Micro 239, I think?

I wish I could tie Delta and Kat to the same tree.

[Kazekirimaru]

In my view, Kat would be playing

very

clumsily as scum if she is in fact partners with delta.

And that's something I'm not willing to discount.

Sometimes it really is that easy.

YKV is playing like I remember him in that one game where everyone was a random role and he was a Town Guard. Micro 239, I think?

I was scum in that game!

Yepyepyep. I can't meta you worth a damn, though.

[Kazekirimaru]

I could lynch Kat today instead.

[Kazekirimaru]

Citizen, stop being stupid. You apparently can't read a damn thing.

pedit: Eh? I've said that before? Well, probably because it's true.

[Kazekirimaru]

Scum reveal themselves in RVS more than any point in the game, in my opinion. If I can get a strong scum feel for someone in the early stages of the game, it's probably scum. That's all there is to it.

Delta and Kat need to fall. Lynch one today, track the other tonight to validate. Track me with the other PR for all I care.

pedit: Town can't be confident? What?

[Kazekirimaru]

4 wins, 3 losses.

[Kazekirimaru]

Yes I do

right now my main read is yellowking.... and I would probably probably policy lynch Kazekirimaru

Policy lynch?

What?

[Kazekirimaru]

I would like to hear from Jason today, yeah.

[Kazekirimaru]

Avatartells are legit.

Kat, mind humoring me with a T/S list so I can see where exactly you're standing at the moment?

[Kazekirimaru]

You know, Wisdom...

If he didn't, then why did he reply in a serious fashion?

If you want me to revert back to RVS, let me know.

To make scum like you react like you did

Delta was at a mere L-3 when this statement was made. I can understand not hammering on page 3, but why not vote at that point? I'm curious.

[Kazekirimaru]

Considering your main reason for staying off the Delta wagon seems to be not wanting to hammer, and you had suspicion + ample opportunity to vote him before L-1, it looks kinda poor now that I'm thinking about it.

[Kazekirimaru]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Katarina

I want to be futile and silly looking, too.

[Kazekirimaru]

Who do you want to see lynched today, then? Still Delta?

[Kazekirimaru]

The Delta wagon kinda came to a screeching halt, though.

[Kazekirimaru]

Hm.

What do you deduct from the cessation of the Delta wagon, Kagami?

[Kazekirimaru]

That was what I was asking, yeah. Sometimes the speed of the wagon can help determine on if it's on town or scum. I'd think that if the wagon were on town, scum would have pushed it home instead of letting it stall out.

This is, of course, assuming that both scum weren't already on the wagon by L-1. I find that unlikely, though.

[Kazekirimaru]

<12> Don't drink and post, lest ye receive Public Humilitation.

That is not in my rule set.... As long as everyone plays nicely and does not do personal attacks or other things that may cause issues, I am fine with a bit of frivolity.

[Kazekirimaru]

Kagami the only reason I can see for you to be voting Delta is that you are scum.

Where would you rather her vote be?

[Kazekirimaru]

What?? Isn't Mini 622 just some random game??

What bugs me is Kagami hasn't been relying on statistics in this game. Kagami is a crazy person who believe that meta stats is the key to finding scum. Nothing of that this game.

Last I checked, Kagami isn't a robot.

I could be wrong about that, possibly. The point is that this angle is bad. Reminds me of people jumping on fferyllt whenever she doesn't metadive people immediately. It's null.

Didn't you say not long ago that you don't meta? Now you're using it?

[Kazekirimaru]

That game was even more well before my time and kaze's as well. I'm surprised he knew about it.

I like to read.

[Kazekirimaru]

Alright stop dodging. Anyway I'll get an answer from you later. When you are L-1.

I likely won't be participating in such a wagon. Good luck with that, though.

[Kazekirimaru]

You don't like me because you're my top scumread.

I have done nothing scummy in this game

you are scum

vote: Wisdom

You must still be drunk.

[Kazekirimaru]

I'm not sure anymore. He's been playing scummy, but to give credence to the idea of scumCitizen I'd have to let go of the Kat+Delta powercouple I've been going for. And I'm really stubborn.

PEDIT: Jason your vote is bad and you should feel bad.

[Kazekirimaru]

I'm not entirely sure. My reads are getting all messed up now. Jason's entrance didn't help.

[Kazekirimaru]

Nah, I've decided Kat/Citizen would be the more likely pair. When Kat was getting pressured she expressed grievances about me, and then not long after Citizen waltzed in with a vote on me. Could have been an attempt to counterwagon.

[Kazekirimaru]

But would scumCitizen be bold enough as to attempt to start a counterwagon off the scumreads of his partner...?

I really need to flesh out ideas more before I hit submit.

PEDIT: yeah exactly

[Kazekirimaru]

Shouldn't another person talking help your reads? >.>

Not when they rock my idea of who's scum this game. How dare you make me think more!

Citizen/Delta would make more sense, with Citizen sheeping the townie who doesn't agree with the Delta wagon.

Sounds plausible.

[Kazekirimaru]

kaze is probably just VI.

Screw off.

OK I guess I didn't read Kaze's question.

EBWOP - I was in a game in which Kagami used a lot of stats (i linked it above). That's what my post 250 was based on.

So Meta works when it's convenient for you. Gotcha.

Kazekirimaru - prob town
PhDScar - Null
Citizen M - Prob Town
Katarina LeBlanc - Possible scum
Kagami - Scum
YellowKingValley - Village Idiot
Deltabacon - Null leaning scum, would prefer a Kagami lynch but will settle onto a Delta one
Wisdom - Prob town.

I really don't see Kagami scum. It seems to me like you're throwing her in your scum pile solely because she's not going meta-crazy a few IRL days into the game(that's the only reason you've given) and I just think that's not a good enough reason.

[Kazekirimaru]

For good players, if they can't find scum by D2 or D3, they are highly likely scum, and should be lynched only by then. Before the cutoff point, town will always try make sure good players survive. What JasonWazza proposed is not town motivated.

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... roficiency

[Kazekirimaru]

Mm. I'm not up for a Citizen lynch today.

[Kazekirimaru]

If the scumteam I've been calling since page three were the scumteam...wouldn't that be a trip? Unprecedented, really.

[Kazekirimaru]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Delta

YKV, your vote still on Delta? We should push this through, already.

[Kazekirimaru]

And no i don't plan to hold your hands in telling you the story of how Kagami is scum, ISO her yourself and find out if you believe me or not.

You must not care enough to see her lynched, then.

[Kazekirimaru]

I mean, I've been playing this game since it started(believe it or not :O!) and I haven't seen a single thing to make me think Kagami is scum.

So either I missed something damning, or you're wrong.

Since you obviously think she's scum, you obviously think I'm missing something.

Shouldn't townies want to set other townies straight? Make people see their point and synch up with them? No? Kay then. I was just under the impression Mafia was, you know, a social game.

[Kazekirimaru]

Also, I can't really defend myself if I don't know why I'm attacked...

Ugh.

Kagami.

Why'd you say this?

I was feeling so good about townyou and then you said this. ._.

[Kazekirimaru]

Feeling the need to defend yourself and feeling like you're attacked. That generally doesn't come from a townie with one solitary vote upon them.

[Kazekirimaru]

By being ambiguous, Jason achieved few different objectives. All are scum motivated.
1) Spares himself from making up accusations. Thus we could not check his consistency in thought process.
2) Allowing himself a way out when Kagami flips town. If he didn't commit, he can make up excuses later that make him less scummy.
3) Let others who join the wagon think up stretched accusations to try justify Jason's accusations. The sheep are good lynch bait once Kagami flips town.
4) Prevent Kagami from defending herself.

Except a half-decent town wouldn't push a wagon based on an empty accusation. I don't think Jason really thought he could get Kagami lynched just by pointing and shouting "scum!" And if he did, that's hilarious.

[Kazekirimaru]

Pretty sure I'm voteparked.

[Kazekirimaru]

Well, pretty sure the other scum is still off the wagon, you're apprehensive, and Jason is probably going to failvote Kagami for at least a little longer. I'd say we have time.

[Kazekirimaru]

I want to know what your vote on me is based on, Kaze. I mean, I've looked at you in ISO and never really saw any explanation of your vote other than 'You fucked up'. I'll be honest, it looks quite oppotunistic given that you barely talk about me at all. You've quoted a few words of mine and added some one-liners but never really developed on the ideas any.

Gut instinct is great an all, I rely on it quite alot, but when you're talking more about everyone else than your #1 scum-leaner it looks rather glaringly like it's something you can stick to without much effort being put in.

I don't need to talk about you because I've had you down as obvscum since page two. You're old news. All that's left is to see you swing.

[Kazekirimaru]

I want to know what your vote on me is based on, Kaze. I mean, I've looked at you in ISO and never really saw any explanation of your vote other than 'You fucked up'. I'll be honest, it looks quite oppotunistic given that you barely talk about me at all. You've quoted a few words of mine and added some one-liners but never really developed on the ideas any.

Gut instinct is great an all, I rely on it quite alot, but when you're talking more about everyone else than your #1 scum-leaner it looks rather glaringly like it's something you can stick to without much effort being put in.

I don't need to talk about you because I've had you down as obvscum since page two. You're old news. All that's left is to see you swing.

So why shouldn't I read you as scum, given that you can't be arsed to back up your vote with anything resembling a reason?

I don't give a damn if you read me as scum.

[Kazekirimaru]

I mean, come on. You're scum. Your "reads" mean nothing to me.

[Kazekirimaru]

Citizen M's failure to provide reasoning for his vote lumps him in the same boat as Kaze.

Yo, Citizen. Feel like enlightening us with some reasoning and not merely sheeping an oppotunistic Kaze?

Keep making starfish sounds.

[Kazekirimaru]

[Kazekirimaru]

Love you, too.

[Kazekirimaru]

You're assuming he knows the optimal play.

A decent scum wouldn't out themselves in RVS, either.

You're just afraid of the hammer. If you want, I'll unvote and let you hop on and I'll hammer. :3

[Kazekirimaru]

Well, this is fantastic.

[Kazekirimaru]

And here I was hoping we could wrap this up before Christmas.

Whatever.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Kat

[Kazekirimaru]

Because you're obviously not going to happen today, so I'll go for my other scumread instead.

[Kazekirimaru]

Mind telling me why I should help you lynch Kat, or are you expecting Citizen to sheep you and the lynch to just happen automatically?

You can do whatever you want. I'm not going to try to convince scum to do what I want.

[Kazekirimaru]

Delta called our accusations bullshit while trying to avoid clarifying why it's bullshit. Typical scum behaviour.

Kaze I'm disappointed with you...

It's a losing battle, YKV. Now's the time for compromise.

I think wisdom is probably correct that scum would have claimed PR, unless he had reason to believe the hammer wouldn't come after claiming vanilla. That assurance would only exist if the proposed hammerer were scum with him.

This is a WIFOMsnowball, miss.

It also doesn't discount Wisdom from being scum.

Yeah. Kat wagon is a bad idea. Try Jason. He's lurking. And not putting effort. Else just extract blood from Delta.

Losing battles.

Fuck this quit the misrepping.

UNVOTE: Kagami
VOTE: YKV

Don't let The Mads™ cloud your judgement, Jason.

Not really relevant, so spoiling

Spoiler: metaputer

since it's come up a few times: status update

I'm still working on it, but the current status of my meta-analysis program is that it needs work.

Firstly, it fails to find the alignment of players in about a quarter of all games, so those have to be thrown out. I'll get this fixed soon.
Secondly, it's using a fairly simple model right now until I get the kinks worked out that hurt its accuracy.

I just ran it a minute ago on wisdom's meta, for which it doesn't do too badly. It crossvalidates at 75% accuracy (i.e. if given all but one game to learn from, it can use that information to predict his alignment correctly 75% of the time). Chance here is 50% since I don't include the prior that being town is more likely. This is ok, but not stellar.
On Jason, however, it fails miserably. It performs at chance. I'm trying to figure out where the weakness lies here, but my impression is that it overfit heavily for him.

tl;dr: Having worked on this for only about half an hour per day for a week or two, I have not yet solved mafia.

Super disappointed in your lack of progress. I mean, my goodness, a fortnight has passed and you haven't broke the game yet? Shame.

This wagon needs to happen people.

Yeah, not likely.

[Kazekirimaru]

Hang Kat, investigate Delta and whomever else, win game. Sounds fine to me.

[Kazekirimaru]

I don't think expecting you to follow through with your "incoming in 5 hours" bit qualifies as discrediting.

[Kazekirimaru]

The streets are awash with inconsistencies tonight.

[Kazekirimaru]

YKV sticking to the Delta vote looks a lot like determined town to me.

Not voting him, either.

[Kazekirimaru]

Kaze stop calling kagami and kat "miss"

Habits.

I'm not a fan of Jason's aggressiveness, but it's not really a scum tell.
Wisdom needs to explain why he's been tunneling the shit out of me since page 1.
Kaze is sort of rising through the scumreads and my gut is just screaming for a lynch on him.
Kagami I honestly can't read at all because she's super boring.
Delta is ded lurker, that close to a lynch and minimal reactions is a bit unnerving.
PhD is kinda cool.
I am intentionally ignoring Citizen. Mostly be cause after backing me up at one part his posting was just all irrelevant.
YKV is so.. ugh I don't like him being all involved and stuff. But gut says to trust him idk.

"not really"
"sort of"
"gut is just screaming"
"honestly:
"a bit"
"kinda"
"idk"

Best reads list ever.

[Kazekirimaru]

I don't doubt that's how you talk in real life, but on the internet you're actively typing out the things you say. You're purposely sounding non-committal.

[Kazekirimaru]

Someone do something.

[Kazekirimaru]

That's not what I meant by something! Dx

[Kazekirimaru]

How am I supposed to satiate my appetite for scum if you guys keep dismantling wagons?

I mean, L-1 and before a claim might be the worst time to unvote ever.

[Kazekirimaru]

That Kaze guy is town, pretty sure.

[Kazekirimaru]

He's conftown to me. Said so in my role pm. ;D

[Kazekirimaru]

You know what, just for the giggles, compile a list of misgivings about me/my play/my face/et cetera and I'll respond to them.

[Kazekirimaru]

For some reason I doubt the legitimacy of that statement. Unless you're claiming day rolecop in an open setup.

pedit: lol

Because I totally need to dig for more ways to look townie, right?

[Kazekirimaru]

One scum will act slightly scummy just enough to attract Tracker/Jailor visits but avoid lynching while the other scum will act like paragon of townness and Wisdom.

You're a funny guy.

Kaze wagon please.

Katarina pls

Consider the following:

All the people I have prior experience and meta with are reading me as town. There's obviously a reason for that.

Damn. Wisdom-Delta...

Need to adjust my reads...

Because he...disagrees with you...?

Yeah, I know, I'm a VI because I pegged you

Pegging is bad.

[Kazekirimaru]

They've yet to react considering only 2 other people are active. You are not as conf town as you say you are.

I'm not even saying I'm conftown. I'm saying people with more experience with me/experience in general think I'm town and there's likely more reasoning for it than "derp."

I asked you to compile questions for me, by the way. Do you not care to do so?

[Kazekirimaru]

I will stand by calling Kaze's play as opportunistic.

Sigh. This female.

My play has most certainly not been opportunistic - that would imply I'm going for any lynch I can get. Truth is I'm only down for two lynches at this moment: you and Delta. The two people I've been calling scum this whole entire game. I've been saying it over and over that it's you two. Vehemently. That's about as far as you get from opportunistic as I've locked myself into scumreading you two this whole game. If I were scum, this would be a horridly stupid play as I have zero flexibility and zero outs.

As far as the events go: I read delta as scum, pushed his wagon. You came along somewhere around that time and I found you to be scum, as well. Pushed the Delta wagon to a claim, I still wanted a lynch, but it fell apart. I could see it was going nowhere today and decided I'd push you instead since you're my other scumread and there was already support for the wagon by a townread of mine. I still think Delta is scum and I hope the rest of the town will have the sense to lynch him with me tomorrow, but I'll happy lynch my other scumread in you today as a compromise. If there's anything illogical in my play this game thus far, I sure don't see it.

[Kazekirimaru]

You gonna be the one to make it so? ;D

[Kazekirimaru]

No idea who that girl is from.

So, Kat, I'm scum, huh?

[Kazekirimaru]

Only because I got it Christmas-itized ;_;

Everyone knows I main the priest/cleric/WHM class, anyway.

[Kazekirimaru]

Kaze, I wouldn't see you as opportunistic if you elaborated your read on me. As it is, we've gone 24 pages without you putting anything behind it other than your vote and a call for others to follow.

Just throw us a bone here and say -WHY- I'm so scummy to you still.

And give you more reasons to defend against, eh?

Well there's one reason right there for you. You're far too concerned about defending yourself. It makes you mad that you don't have a platform to debate me with. And it drives you up a wall that other townies are/were voting you with me. It shouldn't have bothered you that much if you were town. Townies shouldn't care about looking townie or driving off votes, their number one priority should be finding scum.

Your reaction to being put at L-1 was awful to me. "Are we going to shoot ourselves in the foot this early?" "It's idiotic at best..." That all just sounded like bleh to me. Appealing to the scumhunting ability and intelligence of the people voting for you in the hopes you'll shame them off your wagon left a bad taste in my mouth.

You claimed that you thought PhDScar was being serious with his "Wisdom posts as scum; ergo, scum." line which I don't believe in the slightest. You then attempted to break up your wagon yet again by claiming that all my case on you was "he's voting me for taking PhD seriously." even though you claimed you don't even know my reasoning/I don't have a case at all. The RVS issues in general have been explained pretty thoroughly already.

You jumped on the first possible thing you could in Citizen claiming that Kagami is badposting since she's not using the metaputer and yet Citizen dislikes using meta etc etc. That whole thing was weak and you voted Citizen for it anyway. I cast suspicions in Citizen's direction as bait in 255 and you took it like a champ in 311.

You continuously have been attempting to throw people off my support by calling me opportunistic(along with your scumbuddy Kat) even though if any other wagons formed today that weren't you or Kat I wouldn't touch them with a 10-metre pole.

There, reasons. You may now attempt to dismantle them as you've been chomping at the bit to do so this whole game.

No, that means he has a "mislynch anyone and get away with it because Kagami is backing me up meta-wise" card. As scum, town cred is just the best you can get which he blessed himself by supposedly acting in his meta. No one suspects (except me!) And it is easier to misrepresent someone. Following his wagons means he has "scapegoats" who has done exactly what he intended except without the town-backing he has. You.

I was thinking through potential things to happen if he manages a mislynch on either Delta or I. He could immediately jump at you or YKV. I don't think either of you are scum atm but your actions and tunneling could easily be misrepresented. Both of you.

I refer you back to my 578 which you didn't comment on at all aside from the first three words of it.

---

I've never been so tempted to push my own wagon before. Maybe if I flip you'll all get your business together.

[Kazekirimaru]

Without a template, we would never find what lies outside the ambit of "townieness".

Though I see your point on that particular issue.

[Kazekirimaru]

It was a joke, as signified by the at the end that you snipped off for some reason.

I'm crushed, really.

[Kazekirimaru]

Who said I wanted to prove anything? The joke was nobody in this thread appears to be listening to me (as signified by the severe lack of hanged kat and Delta in this thread) so I'd be more valuable as a body since my flip would likely give loads of info at this point due to my interactions with pretty much everyone.

[Kazekirimaru]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Kaze

That makes no sense.

Kay.

[Kazekirimaru]

This game is exhausting my patience at alarming speeds.

[Kazekirimaru]

This game is exhausting my patience at alarming speeds.

Alright, I'm down for a kat, wisdom, or citizen lynch.

Why Wisdom? PoE?

Why is Delta off the table and Citizen on?

[Kazekirimaru]

Spoiler: 664

Finally, it's only been what, 20-something pages? Let's sit down and take this stage by stage.

Kaze, I wouldn't see you as opportunistic if you elaborated your read on me. As it is, we've gone 24 pages without you putting anything behind it other than your vote and a call for others to follow.

Just throw us a bone here and say -WHY- I'm so scummy to you still.

And give you more reasons to defend against, eh?

Well there's one reason right there for you. You're far too concerned about defending yourself. It makes you mad that you don't have a platform to debate me with. And it drives you up a wall that other townies are/were voting you with me. It shouldn't have bothered you that much if you were town.

Townies shouldn't care about looking townie or driving off votes

, their number one priority should be finding scum.

Here, Kaze makes a good point. The number one priority is finding scum. But when my wagon reached L-1, I'm obviously going to turn to self-defence. Why? Because if you lynch on page 3, you've got nothing. Absolutely nothing except a dead townie. I know I'm town and not attempting to prevent my own lynch (which only helps scum) is playing against my wincon, from my perspective. In addition, are you really saying that my desire to have a case presented against me is scummy? That's definitely what I've just inferred from the paragraph above.

Your reaction to being put at L-1 was awful to me. "Are we going to shoot ourselves in the foot this early?" "It's idiotic at best..." That all just sounded like bleh to me. Appealing to the scumhunting ability and intelligence of the people voting for you in the hopes you'll shame them off your wagon left a bad taste in my mouth.

See above. I'm not going to let myself as a townie be lynched without letting people know that they're making a mistake and that it's going to ruin the early game for us all.

You claimed that you thought PhDScar was being serious with his "Wisdom posts as scum; ergo, scum." line which I don't believe in the slightest. You then attempted to break up your wagon yet again by claiming that all my case on you was "he's voting me for taking PhD seriously." even though you claimed you don't even know my reasoning/I don't have a case at all. The RVS issues in general have been explained pretty thoroughly already.

You don't believe it? Tough, you're wrong. Sometimes it is that simple.

You jumped on the first possible thing you could in Citizen claiming that Kagami is badposting since she's not using the metaputer and yet Citizen dislikes using meta etc etc. That whole thing was weak and you voted Citizen for it anyway. I cast suspicions in Citizen's direction as bait in 255 and you took it like a champ in 311.

It was weak in that yeah, it was a scumread that I now no longer hold. Is it a problem that I'll vote for whomever I find scummiest at any point, regardless of how complex or shitey the reasoning is?

You continuously have been attempting to throw people off my support by calling me opportunistic(along with your scumbuddy Kat) even though if any other wagons formed today that weren't you or Kat I wouldn't touch them with a 10-metre pole.

One of the main reasons I've been calling you on opportunism is because you failed to produce any reasons for your suspicions, and given that quite a few people put me at L-1 twice, I believed that you were simply hoping to ride along on that. Now that you've explained your reasoning, we can actually have a debate about it and people can see your thought processes, something which we all need to be able to view and display in order to find scum.

There, reasons. You may now attempt to dismantle them as you've been chomping at the bit to do so this whole game.

FINALLY.

Itemized response time?

1. Not necessarily that wanting a case against you known is scummy, but that you wanted it so badly. But, eh, thinking about this more makes it null.
2. It was more the way you attempted to get the wagon off you than the actual attempt, like I said.
3. And I'll keep not believing it.
4. It was the timing of the vote. Damn. You're fantastic at missing/glazing over the point, aren't you?
5. Kay, well, cool.

[Kazekirimaru]

Wanting a claim before a hammer = rolefishing, eh?

So everyone who ever pushes any wagon to claimrange is rolefishing! It all makes perfect sense! Revelations! Soylent Green is people! It's people!

[Kazekirimaru]

So did I want a claim or did I want a quicklynch? Because this implies I knew nobody would hammer.

[Kazekirimaru]

Hey guys.

The two people I've been calling scum this whole game are the two votes on me.

What's up with that, eh?

[Kazekirimaru]

I take wagon compositions with a grain of salt anymore.

Ballsy? Yes. Unheard of? No. Essentially if one flips scum the other immediately gets disregarded as scum because of "no way they'd both be on Kaze's wagon like that, right?"

WIFOM, yeah. Occam's razor doesn't make an appearance. But it's a thing I keep thinking about.

[Kazekirimaru]

Yeah vote me you anime loving retards

Someone's having a rough holiday.

You need to take a break from this game, friend.

A forced break.

[Kazekirimaru]

Don't waste the lynch on Citizen, please.

[Kazekirimaru]

Never seen the anime you guys are talking about. Is it good?

[Kazekirimaru]

I was really into the first season of AoT. Anyone else?

[Kazekirimaru]

Oh, I'm not fond of this new found fascination with Jason, btw.

[Kazekirimaru]

I pay uneven attention to games too sometimes. It's not really a reason to get force replaced.

Surprised Citizen is still around, though. One more mentalism comment and I'm /out.

[Kazekirimaru]

Voting him won't get him replaced

Since that lurker is just prod dodging I don't want him in the game anymore. Lynch please.

You have weird priorities.

[Kazekirimaru]

- Because I'd rather lynch scum.

- Ah, for that show it's less about the main and more about the supporting characters to me. And I'm a sucker for nigh-apocalyptic stories.

[Kazekirimaru]

1.For me it's not a policy lynch, I think his vote for Kagami is still really bad and right now he is the best lynch option. Because you're super town it's dumb how many votes you have. I like Kat as explained. I think Delta's claim is believable and it was never really a lynch I felt for anyway. So Jason is the only person others find scummy that I also find scummy.
2. I from day was totally calling that the anime would do one of those have uninteresting main, but cool support (his sister thingy forget her name) then kill main and replace with cool support. And I was so happy when I got to the episode

Spoiler:

they ate him and I thought I was totally right the whole then that he's actually a Titan thing happened.

.

1. But is it really a good time for a policy lynch when we have two fantastic candidates for scum just waiting to swing from the trees?

2. Mikasa? Yeah. I like her tonnes better than the main.

[Kazekirimaru]

Oh God that was a legitimate spoiler so much disappoint so much of it

okay i'm done talking about anime now

[Kazekirimaru]

PhD, YKV, votes for Kat please?

I'm exhausted from this day and all I want for Christmas is dead scum.

[Kazekirimaru]

Post.

I will have stuff soonish

Apparently "soonish" is not today.

You're lucky that Kat and Delta are probscum. But I do hope you have something more than excuses and insults for us in your next post or I'll push your lynch so hard you'll somehow become sterile.



Have a merry Christmas! ^^

[Kazekirimaru]

I knew you'd do that. Like, seriously.

Don't be sour. <3

[Kazekirimaru]

Huh. I might actually get lynched today.

You guys sure you don't wanna lynch scum?

[Kazekirimaru]

YKV is voting me because I won as scum against him in Micro 277 and he's in paranoid mode.

[Kazekirimaru]

He is giving me the same iffy feel. "Glaringly opportunistic" or "clear thirst for blood". I thought these obvious scum motivated behaviour were his normal behaviour. I'd like to reconsider.

So you're going to vote me then reconsider rather than the other way around?

Seems legit.

[Kazekirimaru]

Then lynch me and find out how incorrect you are, YKV.

You can't read me.

[Kazekirimaru]

Have fun with that.

[Kazekirimaru]

There I go again.

Sup, Wisdom?

PEDIT: What's wrong with meta?

[Kazekirimaru]

Eh. I just say things. Why should I worry about what I say?

[Kazekirimaru]

I swear to your chosen deity half of you have no clue what "opportunistic" means.

[Kazekirimaru]

No, frustration.

[Kazekirimaru]

No, frustration.

Appeal to pity.

Whatever, man. Like I said, go ahead and push. You'll just be wrong again and end up dropping the ball in two games in a row. I couldn't not care less at this point - this game is stretching me thin enough to see the light through the veil of my patience. If lynching me it what it takes to finally get a working wagon on the actual scum, so be it.

Make it fucking happen.

[Kazekirimaru]

re:anime - Shingeki was pretty good at first, but I disliked the pacing as it moved along. It became way too slow for the amount of content, imo. SAO was excellent. Best recent anime was Uchouten Kazoku, imo.

I couldn't get into Sword Art Online - the whole "anime about a game" premise just didn't keep my attention. Never heard of the latter.

[Kazekirimaru]

No. And no.

[Kazekirimaru]

Sword Art Online was disgustingly bad. Almost as bad as Kaze.

Rude.

[Kazekirimaru]

So, yeah. Lynch Kat?

[Kazekirimaru]

My God, this day will never end.

[Kazekirimaru]

Yeah Jason doesn't give the smallest unit of a damn about this game.

Deal with the lurker later - kill the active scum now.

Kat2013

[Kazekirimaru]

That's why I'm leaning back, yes.

I'm also thinking that it's very unlikely that neither Wisdom nor Kat are scum, which feels like good odds to me.

If he flips scum (which I'm quite positive he will), then that would round up the scumpool suspects to half in the game. I'm already looking at you, Wisdom, YKV and to a lesser extent, PhD.

If he flips town then this would probably secure that Delta, Citizen, and Jason are possibly clean.

Everyone seems to just want to sit down at Day 1 one and catch all factions of scum, that's why we can't organize a proper vote. I think Kaze is the best lynch today because one, it's easier to round up potential partners for him once he flips scum. Other lynches (such a Jason and Delta) are mostly based on gut and PLs. What happens if Delta flips town? Who do we immediately FoS on? What about Jason? Do we lynch him now just because he's not posting in the game? His "wagon" is mostly a compromise because other people aren't getting the gut scumread they want lynched.

Everyone's current scumread is a mislynch in someone else's eyes, but take to account that we do have to get someone voted out and of the current "suspect" pool. Kaze is the one who should be lynched.

Okay, good plan. I'll run with it - with one slight adjustment:

Realize I'm town and then go forward with that possibility tree because hai I'm town.

[Kazekirimaru]

Yeah Jason doesn't give the smallest unit of a damn about this game.

No it's that Hangover but still sorta drunk Jason doesn't give the smallest unit of a damn, post will likely come in about 3 hours. (if it's later then that don't bitch)

I reserve the right to bitch at my own convenience.

[Kazekirimaru]

I speak to everyone.

[Kazekirimaru]

Bah. This is the worst.

[Kazekirimaru]

Meh. Kagami is town. It makes absolutely zero sense for her to go after Wisdom as scum when it would be so much easier to jump on one of the already-established wagons.

[Kazekirimaru]

35 pages in and she's just starting to mobilize, though? Against you of all the players here? Doubtful.

[Kazekirimaru]

This is a distraction.

[Kazekirimaru]

You saying that Kagami is honestly, truly a better lynch today than Delta or Kat? After everything these past two weeks of play?

[Kazekirimaru]

I think you cashed in your deathtunnels for lynch ADD. That's called overcompensating.

I'm not moving my vote. I've made far too many mislynches by ignoring my gut, and lost far too many games by letting people talk me into deadline lynches.

[Kazekirimaru]

Good luck with that.

[Kazekirimaru]

No...no. This needs to stop. The more the scum talk today the worse it's going to be tomorrow. We need to move on and have a flip and results to work with.

Someone L-1 me and I'll self hammer. I'm not a PR, so I know that we at least won't hit one.

[Kazekirimaru]

I don't want to be in LyLo where I'll probably be the lynch and thus lose the game.

[Kazekirimaru]

My lynch today is not bad all things considered. I highly doubt anyone will listen to me whilst I'm alive if this thread says anything about that fact, and I highly doubt we'll lynch scum today since the wagons are going awry and none of them are on scum.

[Kazekirimaru]

VOTE: Kaze

Wisdom, Delta, Katarina. Lynch in there.

Cheers.

[Kazekirimaru]

I was really hoping it was delta-kat. Kaze would have been smiling from townie heaven.

I'll take 1/2 anyway. Still happy.

Good game, everyone.

[Kazekirimaru]

RVS reads. 50% of the time, they work every time.

No hard feelings! Sorry I thought you were the second scum.