Micro 346: Tuatha Dé Danann Mafia - Game Over!

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Just in time to catch Nacho when he's online! Anyways I

wish

I drew scum in this game actually. It would have been pretty awesome to screw around with Nacho for once. Let's figure out what you drew.

VOTE: Trolling Fairy

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Read my post. Basically, I claimed town and I am amused that you don't see it.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

VOTE: f-16

This vote is borked up. Try again.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Just in time to catch Nacho when he's online! Anyways I

wish

I drew scum in this game actually. It would have been pretty awesome to screw around with Nacho for once. Let's figure out what you drew.

VOTE: Trolling Fairy

You wish you drew scum in this game so you could manipulate me? I thought your greatest love was still being town with me: when did that change?
The "Let's figure out what you drew" acts like I haven't posted anything yet which I clearly have.
You've seen my obvious town trollfuck openings before, and this is clearly an obvious town trollfuck opening.

I still like being town with you. This was just one game where I wouldn't have minded drawing scum to polish my Nacho-manipulation skills.

I like your opening but it isn't unfakeable. Do more stuff.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Sure, you could have pre-planned it because it would look town. I lean town on you but we'll see soon enough and you can have my vote till then.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

That was a pretty mediocre post actually. How the heck did

that

get you to back off?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

That was a pretty mediocre post actually. How the heck did

that

get you to back off?

You promised a vote.

I was talking about my vote staying on you. But your response actually makes sense if you thought I would vote with you. Anyways, I am down for wagoning Penguin. If you are town like I think, this game is a town win.

VOTE: Penguin

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

If you are town like I think, this game is a town win.

this is really hyperbolic for no reason, too.

Actually it is not. There are at least three players in this game whose playstyles I know and I think I can read: Nacho, Penguin, Beli head of Slainte Mhath. Probably not you but Nacho and Cabd know you well enough. Between all of us, it won't be too difficult to solve the game.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

and why penguin? I've got an idea of people that generally react emotionally when wagoned early and she isn't on it

She's not on my list either.
No one else in this playerlist is on that list, 'cept F-16.
I'm wagonning her because I think trying to convince me not to lolwagon her into the ground will be pretty difficult for scumPA (who is dating my hydra partner btw).

And I didn't react emotionally in the slightest so why did you unvote me?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

What do you like about Bork?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

What do you like about Bork?

He suspects both of us and I would find it strange if his opening move against the people who are going to control the game was to alienate himself from us. I dislike that he's not chucklefucking with me, though: I hoped with me playing similar to the way I play in IRC mafia it would inspire the "trolling, yet protown" feel we love so much.

I agree but I'm ambivalent on Bork.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Rez, I get the part where you said your suspicion of me had nothing to do with my post about Slainte Mhath being a hydra. What I don't get is why you characterize "TF vs F-16" as if there had to be one scum among the two of us. It is not like we were pushing each other. We both have townreads on each other once we ended our interaction out of RVS.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

What I don't get is why

you characterize "TF vs F-16" as if there had to be one scum among the two of us.

I don't see any evidence of this opinion being stated; how excatly are you interpreting #98 as "I think there is 1 scum between TF/F-16"?

I'll rephrase it more clearly.

His post saying "

F16 vs trolling fairy: If either of them are scum it's f16

" felt odd because neither of us claimed that the other was scum beyond RVS. He is approaching it as if he had to choose a side. The one scum among us is implied by the way he phrased it. He could have just "

F-16 feels scummy

" without bringing TF into it. But I'll let him answer for himself.

I would also ask that you answer my previous question about your "ambivalence" on my slot - is that equivalent to 'lukewarm' or do you have conflicting data points?

I don't have a read on you yet that I feel confident about.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Penguin's posts are amusing but I want an elaboration as well with regard to "confidence" vs "lack of confidence" in my town and scum games.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Penguin's posts are amusing but I want an elaboration as well with regard to "confidence" vs "lack of confidence" in my town and scum games.

Both your scum games I've experienced have been you in hydra, and I think Nacho-hydra in particular helped you be more natural as scum, but later on when Nacho wasn't around so much there was a falloff. Not enough for me-Medea to overcome confirmation bias, but there was an edge that your town game lacks. It surfaced a bit in Deviant Serenity too. I can't explain it better right now, sorry.

I can buy that you saw something suspicious and are looking out for it and it didn't present itself here but so far I've only had 13 posts at that point and barely any content. If I recall correctly, my lack of intervention when you and Ampersand had a TvT fight was what caused your suspicion and you weren't wrong that it was something that was alignment indicative. That and me fading out as the days progressed. I don't get how you developed such a quick read here based on nearly nothing when what you are comparing it to in Wicked happened much later on in the game. I mean, I can wait if you don't want to give away why you are townreading me so my knowledge of it doesn't dilute your read but I'm going to want an elaboration eventually because your thought process so far has a lot of things that I don't follow.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Scum-bork could be white-knighting town T S O.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

My issue with Bork is that a) He is too certain. The way he said that T S O was "clearly" not OMGUSing felt like he knew T S O was town. The way he answered for Rez when I asked Rez a question also felt the same way: that Bork knew Rez was town. Bork overall doesn't give the air of someone who is uninformed or trying to figure the game out, it feels like he knows the answers, knows who is town and is interjecting himself wherever he feels it is beneficial. His scumreads on Penguin and I don't make a ton of sense either. I expressed concern about Penguin's posting and asked why she was townreading me so easily. I wondered if she was scum whiteknighting me because she knew I was town. I think this would have occurred to Bork if he was town. It feels like he is shoehorning reads that feel convenient to him.

@ T S O, by "better" I am guessing you mean more smooth/image conscious rather than randomly showing up and making a comment about a player ignoring everything else that happenned, then probably yeah. I do think I am "better" as town though overall.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Really now? There were so many better options than T S O. Bork for a start.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I am not nacho but we had both discussed dunking the fuck out of kaze so you can assume our vote lies there.

Why?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

What is the scum motivation for using his gladiate at this point in the game? He isn't assured a win, he puts himself at risk of a lynch instead of letting a townie get mislynched, and it doesn't help a scum wincon. It probably doesn't help town either but it is very plausible that Kaze as town had a strong scumread and wanted to get him lynched.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Wicked means I no longer give gladiators towncred.

Except at that time, Mala was assured a victory over Aronis and used her role with everyone's pre-approval and full expectation of surviving that day.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I'll help you lynch T S O today. Help me lynch Bork tomorrow.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

How would a T S O townflip influence your Bork read?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Beli, why Kaze?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Responding to prod. Will post in a bit.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I just feel really checked out of this game for a lot of reasons.

Kaze, I really don't agree with you using your gladiator role this early in the game and I feel it is too soon to develop reads. I had T S O as fairly town early on because from what I know of his meta, he tends to be somewhat serious as scum and more trolly as town and his initial posts gave me the trolly town type impression and his later deathtunneling gave me the impression of tunnely-town which he has done in Red Wine.

The one thing I feel confident about is you being obvtown so I'll vote T S O so we lynch someone not-Kaze but it feels frustrating to not be able to influence a lynch beyond a 1v1 and the way things are going, I feel like you are risking being mislynched unnecessarily because for whatever reason people actually belive that using a gladiate D1 is some sort of scum tactic. But anyways, I am not superconfident in T S O either way (and it doesn't matter and I'm not looking through those meta links because it is irrelevant at this point as I am not voting obvtown and only have one other choice) but let's hope you are right about him. If you do wind up lynched, I'll take a look through them later.

VOTE: T S O

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Kaze:
what are your non-TSO reads (I'm waiting for like the one time I catch you in a mood where you you decide not to blow me off for once)?

F16 trying to strike a deal with me essentially for my life made me want to vomit.

You're good.

Insanity sounds like noob too afraid to really dig their heals in to me.

rez is usually more aggressive than this as town iirc from past off-site games

The hydrae both suck.

Is penguin still in this game? idk.

So, everyone's scum?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Why is Bork "good?" At this point, he's the only player I feel confident about in being scum.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Well, the first issue I've had with him is that he jumps into other player's lines of questioning.

For instance, I find one of Rez's posts off and I question him on it. Essentially, Rez characterizing my and TF's interactions as TF vs F-16 when in reality we were townreading each other. There are plenty of explanations for this, Rez could be town that thought that our RVS "scumreads" were real, he could be town that skimmed through them, he could be scum etc. In response to that, Bork's Post 115 felt really odd. As if Bork isn't interested in seeing how Rez would respond to my question. It doesn't really feel like he is trying to figure stuff out at all. It more seemed like he knew Rez was town and was looking for an angle to discredit the attack especially when I had already stated at the beginning of the game that Bork wasn't a townread of mine. The other issue is that his interpretation of the interactions between me and Penguin is a bit unrealistic. Penguin townreading me and me being worried about Penguin, I think makes more sense from an outside POV as Penguin-scum/me-town especially if Bork already suspected Penguin. BUT, Bork interpreting Penguin's townread of me as between scumbuddies feels like shoehorning reads. It could be confbias I guess but overall, I get the feel from him that he knows who is scum and I don't get the figuring out vibe from him. Post 174 is a little ridiculous as well. Rez provided barely any content. In fact, the only real content was coming from me scumhunting Rez which Bork claims is uninteresting. The rest of his ISO also comes across as really fake scumhunting.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

@F16, I disagree with you about Bork's 115. I don't think rez was saying that one of you and TF had to be scum.

He was saying that either both of you are town OR you are scum.

That's not even close to the issue I am having with Bork. I think Bork is scum because
a) He didn't let Rez answer for himself.
b) He is shoehorning reads to fit pre-conceived stances.
c) He gives the air of knowing who the town are and who the scum are interjects himself into arguments opportunistically.
---
The bolded is exactly what Rez is saying. We don't disagree there. My issue was why he is saying it. I could say now "Either both Insanity and Penguin are town OR Penguin is scum." And it wouldn't make sense. Rez's statement may have made sense from town if he had mistook me and TF in RVS as a 1v1 which is why I needed him to elaborate. I don't even think Rez is scum at this point so that part isn't very relevant.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Kaze is obvtown for using a gladiator role on you day one in the manner in which he did it.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

VOTE: Kaze

@TSO: So if Kaze flips town, your suspicion of F-16 would abate?

Because frankly, I'm starting to think both of you are probably town and that gladiate just made a giant sodding waste of D1.

I agree that the most likely scenario is that they both are town although I am much less sure about T S O. I think Kaze is wrong but I hope he is right and we help lynch scum.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Beli, why are you looking at T S O to sort me? You have two completed games with me so far. As far as I know, T S O has none.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Okay...? I'm not really sure I expected this sentiment from you (You scumread my slot pretty early in Tales, even if ffery didn't, yeah?) but whatever I can roll with that in and of itself, but I'm not sure what to tell you other than to read tales again?

On the other hand, F-16 was positively snowed by me through the first half of Tales to my recollection (I don't really want to parse through Abyss neighborhood QT/PT again, but that's pretty much how it felt to me at the time) and I feel like he should be double secret scrutinizing me this game - I recall him going to meta for people a lot in Tales; hasn't even brought up Tales here.

Probably because it

doesn't fit the narrative.

Tales was still ongoing when this game started which is probably why I was wary of you in the beginning.

But now that you bring it up, why did it strike you as odd or unusual that I was cautious about an early read on you when Nacho townread you? I thought the implication should have been pretty obvious.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

But now that you bring it up, why did it strike you as odd or unusual that I was cautious about an early read on you when Nacho townread you? I thought the implication should have been pretty obvious.

I don't think that's odd. I asked about why you were ambivalent because I wanted to know why and I wanted to read you via your answer. Tell me with a straight face that wasn't clear.

I think it's odd you're scumreading me now (to the effect of I'm the only person you are sure is scum or whatever the fuck you said) for what you've stated, which is tantamount to really nebulous shit like "it feels like he's shoehorning reads" or "it feels like he knows who is town" despite your alleged uncertainty of the people I'm supposedly scum-town interacting with to fuel your scumread (aka circular reasoning).

Actually maybe just read my ISO?

I did read your posts. Your stances feel somewhat bizarre. You jump on me questioning Rez and answer for him where as letting him answer would have been much more alignment revealing. I get if you misinterpreted what I was saying at first and thought that I was accusing Rez of doing something he's not but I did clarify it for you in the very next post so the question of it being a simple miscommunication is out the window. After a little while, you dismissed it as "uninteresting" as if the level of your interest determines affiliation rather than playstyle. Basically, you suspect me for scumhunting which is exactly the same thing The Fox and the Hound pulled in Tales of You.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

And then there is your stance on Penguin who you also feel is scum. I too have some suspicions of Penguin but she doesn't suspect me so the natural inclination would be to work with me to lynch her and worry about me later but you are again pulling the same stuff FoxHound pulled with me/AP in brushing aside the Penguin read as a weaker read and your read on me as something you need to focus on completely disregarding me/Penguin interactions make sense as me-town/Penguin-scum and both town much, much more than me-scum/Penguin-town or both scum.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

The only thing giving me pause is why you'd go after me when there are much easier targets available in the game but I was the one that initiated conflict by not townreading you and questioning townreads on you while pushing a different player so it may make sense that you'd come after me as simple OMGUS because if you pushed and alienated another player, you'd have to contend with both them and me.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

you suspect me for scumhunting

Lol. I seriously don't know what else to say if you got

that

from my ISO.

Your push on Rez was uninteresting (maybe underwhelming is the better word) to me because it was based on altering semantics to divine a different (and misrepresented) meaning than the actual meaning of what he said, and calling you out on that was the responsible thing to do.

This would have been an honest misinterpretation on your part if I hadn't explicitly clarified in the very next post what I was getting at. But I did.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

1) This is a generic answer that looks good on the surface. It feels like something straight out of a mafia guide. "Don't consider interactions pre-flip." "Don't make associative tells before you know a person's alignment." But realistically, I don't believe you legitimately missed that we shared a scumread and aren't factoring it in. When two of your scumreads suspect each other, or one suspects the other, it makes people take a step back and question what's going on. You can't operate in a vacuum where all your reads are indepedent and it feels more your reads are ones of convenience.

2) I feel that incomprehensible thought processes often come from scum. If you are scumreading Penguin and I am too, the natural reaction would be to consider why it is the case. You certainly considered the fact that Penguin was townreading me as a reason that she was scum. I did too. Why didn't it make you question your scumread on me when I too called her out for giving me an easy pass?

3) This point is incomprehensible so I am just going to add gibberish to make it seem like I responded to it. Gibberish, bullshit, fluff, puff, nothingness, words, words, words, more of Bork's bullshit, rubbish, shoehorned, scumreads.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

This would have been an honest misinterpretation on your part if I hadn't explicitly clarified in the very next post what I was getting at. But I did.

And I still disagree with your interpretation of it, and here we are. Like I told muffin on Touhou u-pick 2 as he tried to accuse me of not having a good reason to suspect him - it planted the seed of suspicion that strengthened with his later posts.

So it is for you as well. Also pretty clear from my ISO.

I don't believe that you still don't get what I was asking Rez even after I clarified it. I can buy that you thought it was a misrep at first but your tendency to dismiss as opposed to understand it when it is clarified feels scummy. It felt odd that Rez would classify two people townreading each other as TF vs F-16 and say that if there is one scum in there, it is me. He is probably town, most likely considered our RVS suspicion as real and misinterpreted me/TF interactions as a mutual tunnel. But it is something I wanted clarification on to make sure that that was the case. I get that my initial question came across as if I was asking him why there had to be one scum among us which I agree wasn't the best phrasing so I don't suspect you for thinking it was a misrep. I do suspect you for a) Pre-emptively jumping in, and b) Not being receptive when I clarified it in more clear terms.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

His post saying "F16 vs trolling fairy: If either of them are scum it's f16" felt odd because neither of us claimed that the other was scum beyond RVS. He is approaching it as if he had to choose a side. The one scum among us is implied by the way he phrased it. He could have just "F-16 feels scummy" without bringing TF into it. But I'll let him answer for himself.

I pretty much clarify it here which makes your later "uninteresting" comment weird.

Yeah, we briefly "sparred" but ended up townreading each other. We never actually "scumread" each other beyond RVS. And yes, Rez as town can reasonable assume that we were scumreading each other if he didn't understand that Nacho and I were simply trying to take the game out of RVS. My issue isn't Rez's play, in fact I think he may be town. My issue is your approach to me asking Rez to clarify his stance so I can understand why he phrased it the way he did. I am not arguing that his phrasing is scummy, but the way you interfered into my scumhunting efforts felt scummy.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I can't see #349 [I need to consider your interaction with (unflipped!) penguin and immediately see you're town, I didn't so I'm scum] coming from town.

I don't expect you to see "immediately" that I am town. But you are scumreading Penguin for apparently giving me an easy pass which is something that worries me as well and I am scumreading her for that same thing. I am wondering why it doesn't give you pause that I too am worried about the same thing you were (as opposed to accept Penguin's townread on me and revel in the towncred or whatever). It bugs me just as much as it does you that she essentially came in and called me town with so few posts of mine in the thread none of which are overwhelmingly town and I think I mentioned this before you did. I was accusing you of shoehorning because I think for most people as town, if they see something that matches their thoughts very closely, they tend to townread the poster and it is only natural. You not doing it felt unnatural.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

My character name is Dian Cetcht. Not sure if that helps.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

1) Except how can you "forget" the fact that I voiced the same thoughts you did? Penguin comes in and townreads me, I question the townread on me because I feel it is too easy, then you come in and say that the townread is too easy, both Penguin and F-16 are scum independently. It doesn't feel natural. It

could

be confbias, sure and that would explain it and I haven't discarded that possibility.

2) Nothing about the interaction was "banal, superficial, null" or any other buzzword you choose to use for it. Penguin townreading me felt off. It felt scummy. I questioned her on it because I thought it was scummy. There was nothing uninteresting or null in that interaction which you know because you questioned the same thing that I did.

3) I did consider that if you were scum, you'd pick an easy target as opposed to draw attention to yourself and it does give me pause and makes me wonder if you are actually town and we're both locked in an unnecessary tunnel that is making it easier for scum. The "convenience" comes from the fact that you realized I'm not townreading you. You obviously can't push on TF because they are townreading you and you wouldn't want to mess up that read. You

could

push on a lurky player but if I push for your lynch based off of it, you'd have to contend with me as well. You could as scum OMGUS and hope for the best though especially if you garnered a few early townreads.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Bork: what be thy take on insanity, who presently scareth the hell out of me?

Light on content, but it's not IIoA to me as you have claimed it is - what looks IIoA from her? She's offered at least a few reads too, unprompted, which isn't a bad thing.
I don't really even see anything that makes me go 'hmmm' from her. What's scary about her?

My character name is Morrigan.

There's barely anything that can be considered alignment indicative from insanity. This feels like you are trying to get on her good side rather than sort her. "Not IIOA?" What the fuck does that even mean in context? Looks like a poor excuse to plop down a weak defense and gain an ally.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Oh, I'm supposed to have reads? With this stupid gladiate shit i kinda checked out.

I kinda did the same thing but my view of the game might be Borked up a little.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Bork, do explain why my interaction with Penguin felt null to you?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

You are giving a ton of hypotheticals that are possible but you aren't actually considering whether any of them are likely. If you actually read Wicked, you'd notice that I never questioned Penguin's townread on me. I just let her defend me. I know enough about Penguin's play to know that she doesn't take scumreads on her lightly and pushes people that scumread her quite a bit. That's a major reason I didn't ever scumread her and Cabd in Wicked because I didn't want to unleash what would happen if I did it. When she got paranoid of me for a while, I continued to townread her while addressing her concerns. Like, if I were scum here and Penguin was town, there's not a chance I'd respond the way I did.

Because Y coming in and saying "X looks town from meta" when X doesn't look town from meta says something about Y and NOTHING about X

And X also saying that X doesn't look town from meta and scumreading Y for a poor read isn't alignment indicative for X?

What about the rest of my ISO is particularly concerning besides your misinterpretation of my question to Rez? Coming to ISO's, you are townreading loads of people for shitty reasons. Beli hasn't really done anything in this game to give any sort of read but he is town based on tone? And Rez is town based on content? He barely provided any sort of content. Most of the content has been generated by you, me, Kaze, and T S O. Your reads don't make any sense.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Meh, I don't feel like posting a response unless someone else wants it since it will basically be a repeat. I felt like some things in your posts rang townish somewhat, the appeal to Nacho, and the declaration of obvtownnes. But I feel like you are just shoveling arguments trying to "win" as opposed to see where I am coming from which is somewhat bothersome.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

@ Penguin, I still have trouble following your thought process:

1) Why no comment on my concerns on you? Given you said something to the effect of "your lease in my head expired with Wicked" in you Tales of You scum thread, if you are town here, you should be expecting me to townread you, right?

2) Why do you read me as town at all after the crap game I brought up here? The entirety of my contributions here were a bit of RVS fluff with Nacho, then I spent the rest of the game tunneling Bork. It doesn't match up with any of my past towngames at all.

3) What was the purpose of your statement that Cabd is null? Why comment on his attention span when it isn't alignment relevant for him?

4) To be fair, if Bork is town, his play hasn't been stellar either although perhaps better than mine since he is a little more engaged but why is he town?

5) Why does Insanity's reasonableness bug you? Do you expect her to be unreasonable as town just because she has demonstrated that she can be reasonable as scum? Have you glanced through any of her towngames to see whether she is reasonable as town?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

To be fair, if Bork is town, his play hasn't been stellar either although perhaps better than mine since he is a little more engaged but why is he town?

Also this is my one reachout to your hypothetical town-self:

You are wrong. You have many avenues into seeing that you are wrong - you could do even a cursory amount of meta on me, or you can realize that I legitimately am not considering an interaction with a player I don't know the alignment of and my play makes sense from that assumption.

The fact that you're willing to call my entire game less than stellar despite the fact that 1) it's day 1 and no one has been mislynched 2) I'm engaging every single slot as well as I possibly can, and 3) every single player in the game that has a read on me disagrees with you suggests to me that you're considering my play in the microcosm of my read on you and

nowhere else.

And maybe I'm doing it too, now, at least a little - but you even admit you're not doing much else but tunnel me.

But that's an amount of confirmation bias in myself that I can at least admit to.

I really don't know what else to say to you other than that

you frustrate me.

I am not ruling out the possibility that you are town. I feel like your development of your read on me doesn't make much sense at all specifically the interjection into my line of questioning and the followup "uninteresting" feels like you had already made up your mind.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Meh, I don't feel like posting a response unless someone else wants it since it will basically be a repeat. I felt like some things in your posts rang townish somewhat, the appeal to Nacho, and the declaration of obvtownnes. But I feel like you are just shoveling arguments trying to "win" as opposed to see where I am coming from which is somewhat bothersome.

Bork is town and you should see that please don't be scum

Uh, why is he town? Why are you only telling me Bork is town, it feels like the same stuff you pulled with Tammy when you were telling her I was town.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

It's not a scum tactic, sure. It's also not a town tactic?

Kaze is town and you should see that, please don't be scum. I am actually serious. Are you seriously considering Kaze scum here?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Kaze:
what are your non-TSO reads (I'm waiting for like the one time I catch you in a mood where you you decide not to blow me off for once)?

Slainte:

1) get your head in it (thought both heads were aware of gladiate by now?)
2) there is literally nothing in Insanity's ISO that at all strikes me as IIoA. Examples?

Nacho:
Where the fuck?

Laptop was stolen, again, getting another job, probably will be taking a hiatus from mafia soon because my absence from games has reached unacceptable points.
Sorry, Cabd.

Sorry to hear that. Going to miss you from mafia.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Scum-Nacho is probably telling us that Bork is town.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I feel like your development of your read on me doesn't make much sense at all specifically the interjection into my line of questioning and the followup "uninteresting" feels like you had already made up your mind.

Not getting into this again man. I explained how I got to where I was.

You did and it doesn't make sense nor does it look or feel town but it is not a guarantee that town is always going to act pro-town/not jump into other player's lines of questioning so I am going to let that slide and see how else I can read you. For what it is worth, don't interrupt other players lines of questioning.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Why is Nacho scum?

Minor flashback to Tales but I don't know.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Why are you posting that neutral face exactly?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I am not scumreading you (not yet anyways) or paranoid of you, but considering the possibility that you could be scum. I don't have a strong read either way. Whether you are town or scum, I'll see it in time.

Your conversation with Bork felt like you were manipulating him and posturing against me. Your conversation with me also felt like you were posturing against me while trying to get Bork on your side.

You even considering lynching Kaze feels off because he's 100% town here. You are asking why town-Kaze would use a gladiate D1. The answer is obvious. He had a scumread and he wants him dead. Kaze is impulsive and sometimes abrasive. It matches with his playstyle to a T. Kaze doesn't like waiting for scum to get lynched. He is impatient as fuck and would end days as soon as he has a scumread if it is up to him. Scum-Kaze wouldn't blow the gladiator and lock himself in when there is no way out and remove the possibility of a deadline compromise mislynch. I assume scum will play the role like Mastin did in Anything Goes or like Malakittens did in Wicked. It would come across as calculated, not impulsive and they'd want to make sure that they would win.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Why? There's a less than 100% chance of T S O being town though.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

You are kidding, right?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

So, this is probably the game you are going to get me mislynched right? It didn't work the last two times but you know you can do it and you know you are more persuasive and charismatic and you just need to right scenario and gamestate and everything will fall into place.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

What did you ask me?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Nacho, what was your question? I ISO'd you and I don't see which one you are referring to.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I did answer that. It feels like you are posturing against me and whiteknighting Bork.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Scum defending town feels manipulative. Town defending town (or scum for that matter because town don't know who the town are) feels genuine. I think scum tend to have a greater level of certainty in their townreads in a very unnatural way. For instance, me defending Kaze isn't meant to manipulate or buddy him.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Nacho's doing the same thing defending Bork as he did me in Tales of You. He's defending people that aren't going to be lynched. Most people have Bork as town and if he is scum, it'll take a massive amount of effort to get him lynched. Defending Bork isn't a priority, derailing his lynch isn't a priority. Because he is nowhere close to being lynched. This was very similar to Nacho's defense of me in Tales as well. On the other hand, there is a very good chance Kaze could be mislynched today. The second is the reasoning. There is pretty solid evidence pointing to Kaze-town as I outlined. But with Bork, Nacho never addressed my issues with him and seems to be defending in a way so that the end result is that Bork if town will like him. His objectives are different from mine. My objective is to derail a mislynch. Nacho's is to gain an ally while posturing against me.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Because Kaze didn't give me any other choice.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

In that case, why aren't you trying to stop Bork from getting into a stupid tunnel?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

He may be town. You acting like he is "so town that pushing him is suspicious" is kind of a stretch.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Nacho's doing the same thing defending Bork as he did me in Tales of You. He's defending people that aren't going to be lynched. Most people have Bork as town and if he is scum, it'll take a massive amount of effort to get him lynched. Defending Bork isn't a priority, derailing his lynch isn't a priority. Because he is nowhere close to being lynched. This was very similar to Nacho's defense of me in Tales as well.

I don't really like this explanation

considering the bulk of the interaction on this was between him and you, not him and me.

Wow. I am so surprised you don't like it!

Having the read wrong was a really small part of it FMPOV - the rest was you applying what appears to me a double standard to Nacho - you never really found out why he was townreading me before you launched into white knighting accusations. How do you know how genuine the read is?

You are kidding, right?

On the other hand, there is a very good chance Kaze could be mislynched today.

Only relevant if you think TSO is scum, in which case you should be acting very differently than you are about him.

He could be scum. I don't know. I hope he is. The only thing I am sure of is that I don't want to lynch someone I am 100% sure is town.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

He may be town. You acting like he is "so town that pushing him is suspicious" is kind of a stretch.

That is my read on Bork, who I can read fine.

You can read me fine as well, if not great. So, your push on me strains credulity.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Bork, will you please quit it with the holier than thou attitude? (If you are town, I mean, don't care if you are scum). I gave you an explanation which was quite in depth as well and if you don't want snarky response, quit instigating them. "I don't like the explanation" without really engaging it feels a bit ridiculous.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

He could be scum. I don't know. I hope he is. The only thing I am sure of is that I don't want to lynch someone I am 100% sure is town.

Nacho is townreading them both, so I don't see the scum motivation you're attributing to his voting Kaze, and your attribution of scum motivation on Nacho for going after Kaze would make more sense if you had more of a suspicion on TSO than "well he's not Kaze and I have to vote one of them"

Um, you are either terrible at this game, amazingly easy to manipulate or scum. You are stretching every argument to support Nacho's viewpoint.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Actually, the one thing I am convinced of from the last few set of posts is Bork-town.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

In that case, why aren't you trying to stop Bork from getting into a stupid tunnel?

This was a bad line of questioning in Tales and it's a bad line of questioning now.

No, it isn't. If Bork and I are both town, it should be fairly obvious to you so you'd try and convince each other that we are town as opposed to manipulate Bork and posture against me.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I must admit, I'm surprised I'm alive still.

Cursory glance redoubles my scumread on F16, though. Mini 1537 comes to mind.

I'll mafia later tonight. Been in and out of the emergency room as of late and I already plagued this site enough with ketamine rambling(The gladiate was done in sound mind, though!)

Sorry to hear about your troubles, Nacho.

This is another reason why Kaze is obvtown. He suspects the only person that is defending him.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

If Nacho was town that genuinely suspected me, he'd be all up in arms about how I'm not interacting with him the way I usually do when I think he's scum. He'd point out the lack of me making a case and pushing the hell out of him like in Tales, he'd point out how my passiveness equals scum here, he'd be excited about the chance to pawn scum-me, not make a passive remark about how I could be scum with Insanity and leave it at that.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

In that case, why aren't you trying to stop Bork from getting into a stupid tunnel?

Your suspicion on Bork is based for reasons I don't understand, which in turn, made me suspicious of you until recently.
Bork' suspicion on you is based on your suspicion on him, which I understand because it's what had me doubting you in the first place.

So, it makes more sense for me to focus on your suspicion of him than his suspicion of you.

How do you not understand my suspicion of Bork?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

He could be scum. I don't know. I hope he is. The only thing I am sure of is that I don't want to lynch someone I am 100% sure is town.

Nacho is townreading them both, so I don't see the scum motivation you're attributing to his voting Kaze, and your attribution of scum motivation on Nacho for going after Kaze would make more sense if you had more of a suspicion on TSO than "well he's not Kaze and I have to vote one of them"

Um, you are either terrible at this game, amazingly easy to manipulate or scum. You are stretching every argument to support Nacho's viewpoint.

What points is he stretching in particular?
The only mistake I see he made is me voting Kaze (I haven't voted), but that isn't stretching every argument to support me.

He feels presumptuous. In a way that doesn't make sense. He is answering for others. He answered for you just as he answered for Rez earlier. And he isn't doing it in a way that I can empathize with his thought process.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Why do you think Penguin as scum wouldn't bust out that meta on you? I mean, these sort of things aren't really stuff that scum find difficult to emulate. When I was scum against Nacho for instance, I feigned paranoia because I read him wrong in a different game. When I was scum against Pieguyn, I buddied him. When I was scum against Penguin in Wicked, I used meta from another game (Cowardly Hider) to augment my meta "townread" on her. Scum know what town expect them to do and play in a way as to meet those expectations.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Some scum do that better than others, and they do it better or worse at certain times.

I gutread that post as town because of when it was posted and how relevant it is to the gamestate right now.

I still feel like you're trying to just impede me at every turn rather than try to figure this game out. Do you think she's scum still?

Well that's funny because that's how I felt about your initial interaction with me. I wonder why someone who has no qualms about butting into other player's lines of questioning feel that their scumhunting is "impeded" but I digress.

I disagree with your Penguin read. I don't know what that means with regards to my reads yet. I want Penguin to be town but I am not feeling townvibes, at least not yet. You could be town and town-reading scum-Penguin which means your read is rather naive. You could be scum whiteknighting Penguin and giving her an easy out for a supposedly "good" looking post. You are not against bussing as evidenced by your Angry Pidgeon interactions in Tales Of You so it could even be both of you being scum. Or you could be town correctly townreading town-Penguin and I am massively off somewhere. If I have to pick one player that I want to be town, I'd probably say Penguin. If I have to pick the one I think is more likely to be town, I'd say you.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I still can't follow your Nacho scumread, either. It's based on ostensible personal experience with what you think he would do via meta and not anything he's actually done this game that exudes scum motivation. Please explain it better.

I don't have a strong, confident read on Nacho. It takes me a long time to read him nowadays because of his extremely low activity level which makes it difficult to get a read on his entire body of work. Nacho as scum lurks a lot when the conditions in the game are favorable to him but since he is legimately busy now and hardly has any time for mafia, evaluating his lurking tendencies is incredibly difficult. I do have some markers on how to read town-Nacho and he hasn't hit any of them yet. I liked his entrance but I'm wary of townreading players just based on their entrance because it is something that can easily be planned in advance and doesn't require dynamic adjustments based on the flow of the game.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I disagree that you can't emulate your towngame. Sure, I had never played with you before so fooling me isn't that big a deal, but you fooled Ffery as well who I think you've played with extensively. In any case, your last felt really town so it solidifies my townread a bit. I do want to look through We The Purple to see how much townie frustration you can emulate as scum though.

I know I don't have to pick a townier player. I was explaining my understanding of the gamestate and the perspective from which I am questioning my read which is basically that I think you as town are townreading a scumread of mine. Or at least, I think that's the most likely scenario.

Why does it betray a town mindset? Why would she not make a reference to a game she would be expected to make a reference to anyways? She is not incompetent as scum. If a recent game just finishes, sure she'll add in something about it to make it seem like she is scumhunting. I feel that it is null.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

No lynching just sucks. A mislynch is better than a no lynch. We would have effectively wasted this day if we don't lynch. I'm at the point where I am quite certain Kaze is town but uncertain about T S O. He could be scum. Our best bet is to lynch him. (Catching up on everything else later).

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Thanks for offering your reads T S O. Much appreciated!

Now, let's get this lynch done.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Please just lynch this fuck above me.

I will certainly take that into consideration.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

All right, look. I'm just about to head out but I'll outline a couple of things:

1) Your reads list is horrendous. Not just your reads (your top two suspects are town), but the reasons you gave for your reads. It basically came down to "X suspects me, ergo scum" and I shouldn't have to explain to you why that is bad. There is a complete lack of depth in analysis beyond "lolscum, you suspected me." I expected something better considering you were telling everyone to wait on you.

2) Kaze is obvtown. There is barely any chance that he as scum just decided on D1 that he wanted to blow a gladiate on you. Kaze is an impulsive, impatient player. I've played with him I think once or twice before and came to this conclusion. If he feels like he caught scum, he wants them lynch, right then, right there. It is actually not bad if he is in fact accusing scum (like see Attack on Titan for instance where he pushed all the scum and demanded that they be lynched right then). It makes tons of sense from town-Kaze's standpoint and no sense as scum. He is accusing me who is defending him which scum rarely do unless they are playing at a very high level. He is pretty obvtown and I don't want him lynched.

3) A no-lynch is the worst possible outcome for us. I don't care so much about odds/evens since if town has ways to interfere with the scum kill (roleblock, jailkeep), it makes it pretty irrelevant BUT, I'd rather not end this day with no info at all after two weeks of bickering. You are in the POE pool of potential scum. I have no idea whether you are scum or town but if it is you vs Kaze vs No lynch, I am pretty set on the lynch being you because all other options are horribad. If you gave a sincere effort to solve the game, I'd be more sympathetic, but you've done jack all and I just don't care that much about your slot.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I'll probably vote Kaze tomorrow, mostly because I don't understand the point of this gladiate at all.

When I get time, I'm going to have to reread the thread since I'm kinda lost atm.

VOTE: Kazekirimaru

TSO's role is provable, isn't it?

Oh, come on, that line of thinking is going to get us nowhere. Proving his role says nothing about his affiliation except that he has that role.
I explained why Kaze would have gladiated as town. There is really no reason he would do it as scum.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Alright well NL is not going to benefit anyone and at least if we vote we have a chance of hitting scum. So in case neither of us makes it back by deadline:

VOTE: kaze

Why Kaze over T S O?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

We are still discussing if we would be willing to move our vote to tso just to not result in a NL. Until we can both be on the same page regarding that we will keep voting kaze. We agree that it's prob tvt but of the two kaze has been more aggressive which could come from scum. That's where we're at atm

Beli, is this seriously you typing? I mean, first off, aggression doesn't equal scum. And secondly, T S O is being plenty aggressive now so I don't get why you are voting Kaze for that.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I hope I have more townreads as well and I am not even sure what your thought process here is Beli. I mean, what's with the "we won't vote who we believe to be town" when you barely have any scumspects and then "no lynch won't benefit anyone" so soon later on. And your reasons for preferring Kaze are his "aggression?"

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Tbh it's hard to really get anything out of this day phase bc everything is focused on the gladiator match.

Okay, but that still doesn't answer my question as to how you made the choice you did and why you are choosing Kaze for his "aggression" when T S O has been far more aggressive and this is a really vague way to justify your choice.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Penguin, don't break my heart this time around. Please be town and please see how town Kaze is and lynch his counterwagon. T S O's attacks on me also feel like opportunistic scum. Compare with Kaze's attacks on me which feel really genuine and like he believes in his push. I am about 100% sure Kaze is town here but would not at all be surprised if T S O flipped scum.

The votes on Kaze don't make any sense whatsoever. I have no clue why Beli and Insanity are voting him. Beli hasn't responded to my question either and he feels really evasive in a way I am not used to town-Beli doing, and Insanity is just lollurking.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I had skimmed through Mini 1568 (N's Alliteration game) when it was ongoing but didn't read T S O's posts in much detail. I might be able to read through and get back to you on it but deadline's tomorrow morning and I won't be up before deadline so tonight's the only time I have so I can't promise I will but I'll try. Really, the reason I want to lynch him is more because Kaze might as well be an innocent child here and I hate, hate no lynches since it feels like we wasted today and have nothing to go on tomorrow. What are your thoughts on Kaze himself?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

T S O's posts in N's game: I do find a lot of hyper-aggressive posts and self-meta although I don't think it is alignment indicative. He hasn't done anything here that is unfakeable so I don't know.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Although I strongly dislike him trying to manipulate Bork's scumread on me into telling Bork to vote Kaze i.e. "

hey Bork, look at F-16, you hate him. You know what, I hate him too and he is voting me! You should vote Kaze

" came across as super-manipulative.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Well, that's the one player I had a solid townread on and the only one that was making any sense in this game (ironic that I'm saying this after D1 but I wish Bork was still here).

Anyways, still think Kaze is town. That's my one solid townread.

I think scum are among {TF, Penguin, Rez, Insanity, and Slainte Mhath}

Viewing Bork's ISO, his main suspects seem to be Penguin and me and I am town, and that doesn't give me great feelings about Penguin. Still hope she's town here though and if she is, I'll see it pretty soon. Same with Nacho.

Ending the day early was probably for the best but I wanted to see if Rez got replaced. Still looking forward to hearing from our inactive posters.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Actually, that is a pretty good reason for you being town. I have an awesome meta tell on you which is that you kill people that townread you when you are scum.

I hope you are not playing me though. If you knew I had this tell on you, you could be. But I believe it is accurate.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Oh god, another annoying person who doesn't know how to scumhunt. I'll attack this bit by bit since that's the most annoying way to do it:

I'm going to go ahead and

Vote: F-16

Because of Post 29 (I wouldn't have minded drawing scum)

That's adorable. I'm sure you think you found a great "catch" by noticing something "awkward" i.e. "

hey, look this guy said he wouldn't have minded drawing scum! Is he overcompensating for actually drawing scum? It sounds fake! Why would any townie ever post that? It's gotta be scum trying to look town!

" All of which is very adorable except I really wouldn't have minded drawing scum here because a) I wanted to improve my scumgame, and b) A Micro is a great place to draw scum since you don't have to keep up the act for ever and ever. I don't think your suspicion is insincere but you are just wrong here. I suggest you scumhunt better. Also, I added links for you since you are too lazy to put them together yourself.

480 (For instance, me defending Kaze isn't meant to manipulate or buddy him.)

I can't imagine what in the world you found scummy about that. I was explaining the difference between town defending people and scum defending town. I make it a point to defend townreads to the death as town and it is something I've tried to fake in my most recent scumgame (Cabd and Penguin will know about that). So, I think I can try to pick up on the differences. I was wrong about Bork though so I am not as good at it. I do think that me defending Kaze is not something I'd have done as scum. I don't defend people that dislike me. To buddy someone, there ought to be a level of mutual respect. As scum, I defend players who I know, who I've played with before, and whose playstyles I like and respect and who I think will reciprocate my townread on them. I wouldn't burn towncred just to defend Kaze so he could continue insulting me. Kaze is town. Period. That's why I didn't want him lynched. There are no ulterior motives there.

Post 503 pings me because I have tf as town and bork is town.

Look at you acting like you are all grown up and scumhunty and everything. You look cute doing that. Except disagreement on reads doesn't equal scum or town. It just means one of us has incorrect reads. It doesn't mean that I am town either. It just means you need to look at other things in order to get a read. With TF, my read is based mostly on meta. I've recently completed a game with Nacho where he was scum and did exactly what I was describing. Your read on TF means jack. TF hasn't flipped and you don't know their affiliation if you are town.

also this "Actually, the one thing I am convinced of from the last few set of posts is Bork-town." followed by this "He feels presumptuous. In a way that doesn't make sense. He is answering for others. He answered for you just as he answered for Rez earlier. And he isn't doing it in a way that I can empathize with his thought process."
doesn't make sense. I've gotta hit the road; will be checking periodically through the night so

Congratulations, you've spotted a "contradiction." How adorable. You must be all excited thinking that to find scum, all you need to do is read closely and spot contradictions where a player changed his positions and viola, you have scum! I don't know where you learned that or which mafia school you went to but in the real world, we don't scumhunt based on "contradictions" because they aren't alignment indicative and rarely if ever actually catch scum. But nice try though, I admire your effort.

Overall, I'll give it a C+. It is not horrible and it is of passable quality. You have a keen eye for picking up on small details and I like that you are focussing on tone (especially your first two points). It does come across as a bit annoying though so polish your presentation a bit there. Also, try and interact with players before you make a case. It is something I've learned works really well with some playerlists. I dinged you some points because of the "contradiction" which is just ridiculous but I don't think I made my thought process extremely clear there so I'll give you some leeway.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Beli, why didn't you respond to my question about the gladiate yesterday?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I was going to go into more detail but *shrug*

I think F16 Falcon is scum.

I don't like how in 16 and 29, F16 implies that Nacho is town

I don't "imply" that Nacho is town. I told Nacho that I like being town with him. I've played with Nacho in a dozen plus games. This feels like a scummy stretch.

and then manages to have an early town read on him in 39.

Post 39 isn't my post. It is T S O's. You obviously meant some other post. Link it please.

This is despite F16 later saying that it takes him a long time to read Nacho. (post 535)

I said it takes me a long time to read Nacho nowadays because it is harder to tell whether his inactivity is scummy or just him being busy. He wasn't inactive in the beginning of the game and I had a leaning town read on him. Are you actually trying to read my posts or just misrepresent everything in them. It contrasts pretty sharply with Rez's adorable efforts at scumhunting.

I also think that F16's attempt to push Nacho seemed unnatural and uncommitted.

This is a stupid argument that doesn't take into account any sort of context.

I dislike F16's repetition that Kaze is obvtown when 505 is the best point in favour of that.

This is again stupid. I explained my townread on Kaze. I've seen no reason so far to suggest he is anything but town. Also, your point is a rehash of stuff that a lot of people mentioned during D1. There is no original thinking here.

254 also looks like buddying. I think F16's push onto Bork was based on a lot of mispresentation.

Again, this is stupid. Derailing a lynch of someone who you think is town isn't buddying. Are you actually that naive or scum? Buddying involves manipulating people and acting in a way that gets you townread. For instance, if I am scum and I think pushing a certain player or making certain arguments will get influential townies to side with me, then I'll do it. I've done it before as scum and succeeded quite a few times as well. Let me give you an example. Let's say I was scum here. The first thing I'd want to do is do a quick meta search of players in the game and see the kind of arguments they use, the people they suspect and be the impetus behind the mislynches of those suspects. Buddying involves manipulation. Calling someone obvtown and stubbornly sticking to the read isn't "buddying." I also wouldn't buddy Kaze anyways.

680 feels overly defensive.

Holy shit, are you mentally deficient? Rez posted what he thought was a cute case. I refuted it by defending myself. Are you actually voting me for defending myself?

VOTE: F16 Fighting Falcon

VOTE: insanity018

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I'm here but I feel burnt out on mafia at this point and don't have much to say. Anything in particular you want to discuss?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Who besides insanity do you think is scum?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Rez felt like he actually believed what he was saying and that he legitimately caught scum. Insanity felt she was contriving analysis and forcing herself to look like she is scumhunting. I also doubt both scum would just pile their votes on me especially newish scum who I think would want to spread their votes.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

First off, if scum were actually scared of me in this game, they'd have nk'd me or would plan to nk me soon, not push a lynch. If they are scum pushing a lynch, then they think I'm an easy lynch and don't find me particularly scary. I also haven't done anything this game besides try to divert the lynch off of Kaze onto TSO which was a crapshoot anyways and I wasn't particularly optimistic he would flip scum.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Beli, your post about scum being afraid of me feels wierd because they don't have a reason to in this game.

Also, I wish I could see Penguin as town.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Hey Xayzeck. Awesome to see you replace in.

UNVOTE:

Penguin's actually somewhat right. If you were scum and we were both wagoned, I don't think that you would be at L-1. I was somewhat frustrated with Insanity's poor play a bit too.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Penguin, is lurking a towntell for Cabd/has he ever been apathetic in a scumgame before?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I'll get to this game soon. I was kind of in a bad mood especially with respect to this game but Xayzeck's a massive improvement over his predecessor so give me a couple of hours and I'll get my head back in the game.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Two scum, four town in here: {Penguin Alien, Trolling Fairy, Kazekirimaru, rez, Xayzeck, Slainte Mhath}

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Gosh to fuck these 2 recent pages took forever

Ya'll need to cut down on walls

Anyway from what I've got so far, lynch pool is at {SM, Kaze, rez}

Why do you feel that this is the lynchpool?

SM I can't remember what he has done, except setup spec that I've seen in recent pages.

This is actually a really good point.

Kaze just seems lazyish early and recent

I agree with this as well. Did you read the earlier pages? What do you make of him gladiating T S O?

Rez had a weird entrance and the recent F-16 case is ehh

Okay, I agree with these obviously but I find it interesting that you are only one who agrees with me that Rez has a weird entrance because Bork was all over my questioning Rez. Why did you feel that Rez's entrance was weird?

TF is okay I guess, don't have a Nacho reading card but I think town.

Can you explain this read please?

penguin's cool, not a fan of the sheep but not anything amazing.

This one too.

F-16 is ehh, early game honestly is not very impressive, but recent case-responses feel better. Feeling bitter about the selfmeta tho

What about my early game didn't you like? What about the recent case responses felt better? What about the self-meta makes you feel bitter?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Rez has a grand total of only ten posts in all of D1.

Post 1

:

Vote Kaze

A naked vote on Kaze which I have no idea why he made.

---

Post 2

:

unvote

egoposting, a bit late but eh

Why are you posting not from your hydra? Were you just trying to say that you haven't made any posts yet? To what end?

TSO, I like your new avatar! And your fun-loving attitude!-baezu

Why are you not posting anything about anything?
F16 vs trolling fairy:
If either of them are scum it's f16.

Beli head of Slainte Mhath.

Slainte mhath isn't a hydra.

This post feels pretty useless overall. He asks Cabd why he is not posting from a hydra which is just a focus on non-game related things. He tells me that Slainte Mhath isn't a hydra which apart from being wrong is pretty useless. The only useful scumhunting he did here is to say that if there was scum among me and TF, it was me. I've elaborated extensively on this before and wall-warred with Bork about why this is odd but short summary, I don't find this to be fabulous scumhunting at all. So, that's another useless post.

---

Post 3

:

Vote Kaze

A familiar face! Get tired of mtgs or does your work not allow curse sites either?

Just wanted to play a smaller game before I have to do my league games.

A fluff post!

---

Post 4

:

VOTE: RezWhy did you feel the need to unvote in 98?

Because I read the game.

If either of them are scum it's f16.

Beli head of Slainte Mhath.

Slainte mhath isn't a hydra.

So the way this is phrased, it looks like you're saying "Beli head of Slainte Mhath" when "Slainte Mhath is not a hydra" is the reason you think F-16 might be scum, when in fact not only are we a hydra,

you quoted a signed post by us in that same post

What? my post is 4 seperate thoughts, not 4 parts of one thought interrupted by quotes.
The only thing that might indicate your hydraness was using 'Our' in your second post, but the OP doesn't say anything about it like it does for Trolling Fairy. So, who are you a hydra of?

Only contains responses to questions asked of him and clarification of what he meant earlier which Beli seems to have misunderstood. No actual scumhunting at all.

---

Post 5:

Is the composition of their hydra of import when you should be hunting scum?

I wanna read some meta.

Kaze's question was pretty good and it is interesting that there is zero follow up here with the "I want to read some meta."

---

Post 6:

Post 167 - Linked it because it is so long. This one does have a couple of "scumhunting" game related stuff. The first three responses in there are all responses to what other people asked of him. He did say that "

Penguin's vote seems flimsy. Every time I see something from Slainte Mhath that I like there is a post that is literally spam. I don't know how I feel about that.

" He then gives a list of reads. Penguin is apparently his biggest scumread because a vote seemed "flimsy." He doesn't do anything else to sort out his read on Slainte Mhath.

---

Post 7:

The first three responses are answers to questions asked of him. The final part:

Why is Trolling Fairy so high on this list? Same for Insanity.

Gut. Insanity I have asnull right now, she only has 5 posts and they're all short. But once I see her interact with others I'm sure I'll be able to draw some sort of comclusion

A gut read on TF based on nearly nothing. I had a leaning town read on them sure but it was based off of meta which I don't think Rex has.

---

Post 8

:

@tso: will you explain your biggest town reads please?

This is a meh question and not at all unfakeable coming from scum. Also, all he asked of T S O was to explain his biggest town reads. I don't see what purpose this serves.

---

Post 9

:

reads coming soooooon

It's only been 2 weeks. catching up tonight, on mobile so I might just take some notes and put together a post in the morning.

Prod-dodge.

---

Post 10

:

Where I'm at with Kaze:

His argument (or lack thereof) in use of the gladiate makes me pretty sure he's town. He wasn't conniving enough. That's my opinion on that.

TSO never answered my request so I would have voted for him.

I'm going to go ahead and

Vote: F-16

~ snip ~
(shitty case on me that I dissect in my previous post although the case came off as somewhat townish but still not something that scum can't fake)

He merely repeats that he thought Kaze's use of the gladiate makes him pretty sure that Kaze was town. Well, no shit.

~~~

Overall, Rez's grand contributions to this game have been:
Penguin has a slimy vote, if there are scum between TF and me, it is me, Slainte made some good posts but their spam makes him unsure, and Kaze looked town because of his gladiate.

Yeah, seriously, fuck that.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

VOTE: Rez

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

@ Zayzeck, I agree with your scumread on Rez and yeah, I probably gave him too much credit for believing his push but the rest of play is meh and doesn't make any sort of sense nor does it show any active scumhunting.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Here's where I am at with reads:

TOWN:

1) Xayzeck's

reads pretty much mirror mine and I fully agree with his scumreads except for the one on Kaze but he also said it is his weaker scumread and I can kind of see where he is coming from considering Kaze just faded out of the game.

2) Kaze's

gladiate still felt incredibly townish to me and his play during the gladiate also felt really town. I explain this read on D1 mostly and I am pretty sure T S O was wrong about it.

Maybe town:

3) Nacho

's opening was pretty nice but not unfakeable coming from scum so I dunno. He did have some good early posting but basically faded out after that. Penguin actually makes a really good point about

Cabd

being apathetic and not trying to manipulate anyone coming from town.

(policy lynch me for listening to Penguin's read on Cabd)

4) Penguin

herself seems somewhat townish but I don't really have a solid read. I get her Rez suspicion and I get her questioning of Xayzeck and her overall posts are decent-ish. I'll ISO her to nail down a read.

SCUM:

5) Slainte Mhath

- Beli just feels like he is manipulating me by saying that scum would find me a threat when I haven't remotely been a threat to the scum having been suspected and wagoned, etc. But anyways, now that I got my head into the game, I intend to help town wreck the scumteam. Xayzeck, I get your point about the setup spec and it wouldn't be out of the ordinary for scum-Beli to do it but Beli actually prefers playing scum so I dunno if the lack of content and focus on setup spec is necessarily a scumtell but I do find him saying that scum would be threatened by me pretty scummy.

6) Rez

- Read his ISO.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Responding to the wall in Post 739, I get the Kaze-suspicion and it was somewhat anti-town if he is town because the effect was that we were unable to lynch scum D1. I guess there were some benefits. It polarized everyone, pushed them to take a side, and got a few reads out. Regardless of the effect though, I am not sure that the motivation behind the gladiate is scummy. He did increase the chances of scum getting lynched from 2/9 to 1/2 and he didn't have an awesome explanation for the gladiate and it read as somewhat impulsive which makes me think town. T S O's points basically amounted to Kaze being afraid of a tunnel and initiating that gladiate but the way he scumread me so hard even while I defended him felt really town. I guess it is possible that he was leveraging Bork's (and other's) suspicion of me to make it so that if people suspected me, they would empathize with Kaze and I wouldn't rule that out. I don't like his prod-dodging and checking out today either as I felt pretty sure he would show up today to vote me and I don't know what he is holding back on.

I like your read on Nacho and it is pretty much what I would expect if you were town. I read the game where you were town and Nacho/Ffery were scum so I think your paranoia there makes sense as well.

I get the scumread based off my "I am not scum" line or at least the way you explained it shows a lot more depth than Rez did so I'll give you that. I guess it is one of things that people find scummy because they don't like the tone of it or it feels awkward or whatever. I genuinely did want to draw scum in this game though because my scumgame sucks and the most tolerable games to play as scum are Micros because they are so short. I almost responded to Ffery in my PM saying "Dammit, wish I drew scum" but I settled for a "confirm" so anyways. That was actually how I was feeling at that time. I do enjoy being town with Nacho in general but I wanted to have a change of pace. I haven't been super active in this game or really reading through stuff until now so if you don't have a read on me yet, I'm pretty sure you'll develop one soon.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Nacho, your last post seemed to say that the scumteam was Slainte/Insanity but what do you make of Xayzeck's recent posts? I am reading him as pretty obvtown here and I do think Slainte/Rez makes a ton more sense. Beli did push Insanity at the beginning of the day. I don't know if he would do that as a bus although he might. What do you make of Rez's posts?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Penguin, what made you change your mind here about Rez and Insanity?

I think the insanity018 slot has weaker pushes than rez after today. I don't like rez's arguments, but at least he's making them. insanity018 just spent a lot of time supposedly being confused, which makes a great cover for doing nothing. And I don't think anything's been that confusing. Complicated and unfortunate, yes, but the confusing thing is weak.

VOTE: insanity018

You say that Insanity has "weaker pushes" after today. Can you point out examples of that? What of Rez's arguments don't you like? I feel like Rez and Insanity provided similar arguments about me although at that time, I thought Rez's were slightly more genuine.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Get used to it. The game makes more sense this way.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I mean to say it was a handful of posts is an understatement. Most of your analysis resonated and it is coming from a place where I can make sense of it. I agree with two of your scumreads and even if I disagree with the third, I can see exactly why town-you would have that suspicion.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Kaze, why are you essentially prod-dodging since this day began? I mean, you had this super strong scumread on me and you haven't really done anything to sort it out while I've been posting up a storm in the thread and plenty for you to get a read off of.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

So far you did:

Post 676 - Apology for using the gladiate.

Post 677 - Declaration of a night action.

Post 685 - Clarification of a night action.

Post 709 - More night action clarification + explanation of Rez dropping off the grid + asking Slainte a question

Post 710 - Clarifying that same question.

Post 716 - Apology to Ffery for killing the game.

Post 753 - Excuse for stalling.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I know that I for one don't usually check out of a game as town if I have incorrect reads but tend to re-evaluate the heck out of them if my strong scumreads flip town. As scum, I've used demotivation as an excuse for stalling and not posting especially when not in danger of a lynch which is the case with you now.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I can't remember any distinct pushes he's made too.

Then you haven't read us. We have the scum team as insanity/Rez, now you/Justin Playfair.

Also fine with F16's reads, if we have to eat rope in order to get a scum lynch, that's an equitable trade.

This isn't helping. If I'm wrong, I want you to show me I'm wrong. I am also not sure why you are "fine" with my reads when I'm strong townreading Xayzeck as my strongest townread and you have him as one of your scumreads.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I suck and I'm sorry.

I'll do things here later.

Oh, uh.

I received something last night.

Idk what it does.

Alright. We've established that items can be lost without using them. I've said I think that's because another player took it away because I claimed possession, and that I think the player type most likely to do so is scum. So I'd say you should google those four items I listed in my last post and decide which one it is most likely to be and use it tonight, before you lose it.

It's like a jewel but also a spear.

I can't do anything with it.

That's what we had, which I think to be the Spear of Lugh. I was also thinking Gae Bolg until the opening flavour mentioned Findias, Gorias, Murias, and Falias, which are linked to the four Sidhe treasures I mentioned in the above post. If you've tried to use it today and failed, it's most likely a night action.

I didn't attempt to use it, mod flat out said I cannot use it. Yet it can somehow still be useful. I assumed it was a passive, and I'm too apprehensive to actually use anything anyway so that works. I'd figure it a BP or somesuch if it weren't a spear, but maybe I'm overthinking it.

I suppose I'll just leave it.

My read on Rez is for the same reason as my scumread on insanity : both have been showing a lack of interest in catching scum.

I'd like to reiterate that Rez dropped off the grid everywhere and not just MS when he disappeared. Also, he's relatively new to the game and a sparse poster unless someone raises his ire.

Unless of course you think I was originally right about the Spear of Lugh being taken by scum, but I'm not buying scumKaze atm or I'd nae have done that Gaelic mythology infodump

I thought you were a strong proponent of my gladiator-lynch?

As in a strong proponent of -me- getting gladiator-lynched.

I killed this game to death.

Sorry, ffery.

What changed your reads on me and SM? You were on the fence about Rez until you realized he didn't have time to play? What is your read on Rez now?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Don't know why it quoted all that.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

But what changed to remove your strong scumread of me? The only thing I can think of is that T S O is town and Bork is dead and neither of those things are reasons to townread me.

When did you realize this about SM? Were you reading the thread?

So, you were on the fence about Rez until you realized he didn't have time to play and once you realized that, it changed to null read? That doesn't make sense to me. On the fence basically means null.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Hi everybody. I'm going to read fast as I can. Hope to post something later today.

How is this coming along?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I am not even sure about Kaze as I was before. Rez's posting was full of useless fluff and Justin Playfair posting elsewhere this evening but not here doesn't give me good vibes. I'm worried Beli is manipulating me. All of this means that Xayzeck is a solid as fuck townread for me. I just want to be more sure of Nachocabd and Penguin being town than I am now.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I mean, the "I am fine with F-16's reads, lynch us if it means we catch scum" just feels bad because I very strongly disagreed with one of Beli's reads and he didn't even try to persuade me otherwise or tell me that I ought to lynch Xayzeck who he was voting earlier. It feels like ATE and it doesn't make any sense. Beli said this once before to me as town where I suspected him (Pick Your Poison) but that was a much more logical progression there. He wanted to be vigged because he thought it would help. I responded by insisting we figure out the scum but he had been vigged, it wouldn't have hurt the town that much and made POE easier. Here, it just feels fake.

That and saying that I am a threat to scum feels like manipulation because I haven't been. Beli's seen me in one of my better towngames (PYP) and my worst one (Tales of You). My play here is different from both and I don't feel like he is trying to read me either.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Also, everyone, please vote whoever and don't let the game stall out.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

VOTE: F-16

yeah that

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

But you can explain how you went from not feeling strongly that I was scum to voting me in the next post. Also, want a response to my questions in Post 762.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Okay, one more thing. Penguin, when you get here, could you let me know if you'll be online to talk in real time at any point? I want to discuss a couple of things and I can't really do that with the one-wall-in-two-days type posts so if can be here for an hour or so, that'll be cool.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Ffery

, pretty sure Kaze is voting for me I think.

Xayzeck is a bad choice for a lynch so I strongly suggest people switch from there.

Cabd, I am not sure why you are confident in Penguin being scum. I mean, she could be and she hasn't posted enough for me to really get a solid read although the "I wish you'd get too that I am town" felt somewhat townish and I agree with her suspicion on Rez (now Justing Playfair).

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Explain why the heck Kaze is town for going from a null read on you to a null read on you? I'm not buying the too scummy to be scum argument. He could be town for the gladiate, sure but his D2 play concerns me and it concerns me even more that you are townreading him for very poor reasons. It almost feels to me as though you think scum would always make the optimal, most townish play and anything that looks less town is town. Why is an artless vote townish?

I also don't really follow your read on Slainte Mhath at all. It feels like you wrote down a bunch of meaningless hypotheticals and concluded by calling him town.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Scum Slainte was gifted with the Spear on day one and decided to announce it to town with no knowledge of what that revelation might bring

I see absolutely no reason why this is improbable or even unlikely.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

What "repurcussions" are there going to be for telling the truth that he received an artifact? And scum can tell the truth. Doing so =/= town.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Xayzeck, why are quick read changes even remotely scummy? I actually think scum are more likely to hold onto reads they have because they have trouble organically changing their reads. I made it pretty clear why my reads changed when they did. I was scumreading Insanity when you came in and your reads matched mine besides Kaze as well as you providing a lot of content. You also know that I pushed an L-1 flashwagon on you in a Micro only to backpedal at the last second and go after Wisdom instead. I don't understand why quick read changes bug you at all, or in particular bug you when they come from me.

Kaze, I explained why I suspected you - you haven't done jack shit today. Your declining scumread on me and later OMGUS when I doubt my townread doesn't come across as natural at all. You did have scum motivation to go after me D1 since others suspected me and you could perhaps convince them to vote T S O if you pushed me so it is not conclusive, which combined with your D2 behavior not making sense concerns me.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Why did you ignore the part where I said your D2 play is suspicious?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Important Announcement

I was thinking about when best to out my role and decided now is the best time. I am a 1X Jailkeeper, 1X Roleblocker. I haven't used either of my shots yet. There are two ways we could go from D2. If we lynch scum, I can roleblock/jailkeep someone and clear them of being scum (or catch the final scum). I am not sure there is any particular benefit to town for me to not claim and go into the night unclaimed. The other possibility today is that we mislynch. In that case, my role is more of a hit and miss. I may catch the final scum if I block the right one but otherwise, it is fairly useless. Even if I do catch the scum, it turns into a 1v1 at LYLO and I am certain that at least one player I am 95% sure is town (Xayzeck) suspects me so we are not going to autowin even if I do catch that scum.

Anyways, some of my laid back play was partly due to not wanting to be nk'd. For instance, I never really posted in-depth analysis/meta or re-read the game until now. That's part of the reason I was suspicious of Penguin earlier because I hadn't done much to look like town. I also had a leaning town read on TF early game because of Nacho's "you really are scum, aren't you?" in response to my breadcrumb and being skeptical of me talking awkwardly/stiltedly while I was crumbing because it showed he was focusing on my tone. I lean slight town on Penguin at this point though.

Anyways here are my crumbs:

J

ust in time to catch Nacho when he's online!

A

nyways I

wish

I drew scum in this game actually.

I

t would have been pretty awesome to screw around with Nacho for once.

L

et's figure out what you drew.

VOTE: Trolling Fairy

R

ead my post.

B

asically, I claimed town and I am amused that you don't see it.

W

ell, that's the one player I had a solid townread on and the only one that was making any sense in this game (ironic that I'm saying this after D1 but I wish Bork was still here).

A

nyways, still think Kaze is town. That's my one solid townread.

I

think scum are among {TF, Penguin, Rez, Insanity, and Slainte Mhath}

V

iewing Bork's ISO, his main suspects seem to be Penguin and me and I am town, and that doesn't give me great feelings about Penguin. Still hope she's town here though and if she is, I'll see it pretty soon. Same with Nacho.

E

nding the day early was probably for the best but I wanted to see if Rez got replaced. Still looking forward to hearing from our inactive posters.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Edit: If we mislynch and I do catch a scum, it would be MYLO and require two townies to vote me but I pretty much have the same concerns.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

So, I re-read parts of D1 again that I skimmed the previous time. I honestly have no idea what to make of Kaze. Some of his responses to me now seem a lot like his responses to T S O early game where he just brushed aside the issue and didn't address anything. His meta on T S O was also rather weak and I don't the progression of his read one me. He scumread me D1 based on nothing. I thought it a towntell because he was attacking the only person defending him but he could also be attacking me because Bork and others suspected me and he may want to sway their votes. What worried me was in D2 when T S O flipped town and Bork died and flipped town, he is suddenly not so sure of his scumread on me. The scum motivation is that now that it is no longer a 1v1 with T S O, he doesn't want to spend time attacking his defender. There is no reason Bork's NK and townflip should cause him to back off of me. However, once I start doubting my read on Kaze, he again scumreads me and responds with a vote. His read progression feels opportunistic and ill-explained. I don't understand why you are townreading him for it Justin. It makes a ton of sense to do as scum and not much as town.

Beli, none of your responses have really alleviated my doubts about you. You say that scum are threatened by me and that Rez and Insanity attacking me means that they are both scum. I can't follow this at all and I have massive trouble believing that town can legitimately think this. It feels so ridiculous to think that scum consider me a threat and that both scum piled their votes on me one after the other. You then say that you are okay with my reads when I am strongly townreading one of your suspects. How can you be okay with this? And why aren't you trying to persuade me otherwise? Your response doesn't really address my concerns. It feels manipulative and doesn't logically address how you can actually think that both scum seeing me as threat voted me in succession.

Justin Playfair, I don't understand your thought process either. Apart from the fact that I am strong-townreading Xayzeck and leaning town on Penguin and TF leaving you/Slainte/Kaze as likely two scum, one town, your posts aren't giving me great feelings that you are the townie in that group. Your townread on Kaze is based on his poor play in D1 being consistent with his poor play D2, and your townread on Slainte is something that Slainte himself vehemently disagrees with as well. I am having a hard time reconciling with your read too. Tell me how you feel about Slainte based on his play.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I am not sure what you are saying, can you rephrase?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

You are right. If I get killed, you won't know who I cleared. I am not sure whether I want to declare in thread who I plan to use my role on because if I am targeting town, scum could always withhold a kill to get us to mislynch. On the other hand, if I believe that scum will want to pass on targeting me because of the suspicion on me, it is better that I don't declare in thread who I am targeting. I haven't decided yet what's the best course of action. What I really want to focus on is to lynch scum today. That'll make my role more effective because if there are two scum alive tonight, I not only have to target scum, but I have to target the

right

scum and it would be a matter of luck and I'd rather not have that.

I have trouble seeing which of Kaze/Slainte/JP are town since I've seen things from all of them that I feel could come from scum easily. Kaze is the one I was certain was town D1 but I am no longer sure.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Also, Penguin, Nacho/Cabd, and Xayzeck, when you find time and check in, could you list out your top suspects please and thanks. I feel like the day isn't going anywhere unless we can get some sort of concensus on who to lynch and I'd rather do it sooner as opposed to later.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Okay. Let's lynch Justin then. He's my top scumread as well.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Also, can you explain how you went from Justin/SM/Kaze to SM/F-16 back to Justin/SM/Kaze again?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Can you also give me your thoughts on Justin's townreads on Kaze and Slainte?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

The shape of this game was seriously deformed by Kaze's decision to gladiate so early on day one. It actively discouraged involvement in a way that both impacted town as well as afforded scum possible cover. So the first question to be addressed was if Kaze's declaration that two men enter and one man leave is an indicator of Kazescum.

It would be a glorious gambit, and if you were going to make it TSO would be an excellent choice for a target. The logic of the situation would make it awfully hard for town to lynch Kaze. After all, Kaze had reduced his odds of staying hidden from two in nine to two to one. He'd initiated this conflict on day one, nearly right out of the gate. Kaze proceeds to express suspicion of his first and strongest champion, F-16, though F-16 made this almost a necessity with his offer to Kaze to stack the lynches of TSO and Bork. If I'd been here yesterday I probably would have voted for Kaze. Sadly, after reading his play today I'm almost certain I would have been voting for town. I can't see scum daring and involved enough to make that first day play following it up by blurting out that he got the Invincible Spear, not only stating but then persisting in the notion that he'd gone from a null read on Rez/me to a null read on Rez/me, and meandering his way to that truly artless vote on F-16. I think Kaze is town.

Here's Justin's read on Kaze. It is just as contrived as his Slainte read.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

But really, more Justin votes. What is the holdup?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

First off, my protective ability is 1X so I don't get why it matters whether there is another one.

Secondly, I don't follow why a spear is protective and you are speculating at this point.

Third, let's get to lynching Justin and stop being apathetic lurksacks. More people ought to vote him. Looking at you Xay and TF.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

UNVOTE:

But I really want to end this day and get shit done. What happens if you don't do it? What do you have to do anyways? Elaborate.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I just want him hammered so we can move on.

Cabd, I don't understand your role or what you need to do. Can you explain it again clearly?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I exist. I wil catch up in the morning, since i see nacho made posts and things. ALso don't end the day we have to do a certain amount of posts with the speech imped before the end of the day. If he's scum hell self hammer so leae him at L-2 please. Somebody unvote for me.

What happens if the day ends before you do a certain amount of posts with a speech imped?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

It's hard to buy that scum can win a day earlier just because you don't post a bunch of useless posts before deadline. I don't know yet if this is one of your town gambits or scum gambits though.

Pedit: So you have to write three poems?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I only get two posts and one of them has to be poetry shit so nacho gets to do that one unless it's a prod dodge haiku. P_A just basically claimed she gave it to me, so you all can weigh if you think town PR-giver AND town messenger exist in the same setup. I'll be busy policy lynching her because I fucking hate poetry~ There's another component to it as well so make sure to let me get in the required posts after that before we lynch her, lest we get deaded or vote-stolen yada yada.

VOTE: P_A

I am not clear on this. You said you only get two posts but you've posted more than two posts already.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Okay, just so we are clear, you need to make three more posts full of poetry before we end the day?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Nacho?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Nacho, I don't particularly suspect you. I'm just wary of townreading you too easily when most of what you did is fakeable. I don't want to fall into the trap of townreading people I like playing with especially after Fantasy Camp which is still fresh in my mind.

I think you are town here though. I get some of your points on Bork, and as is obvious now after Tales and D1 here. I wasn't fully engaged with the game D1 and skimmed a lot of posts but upon re-reading last night, I saw that your top suspects at one point were Rez/Slainte Mhath. I'm right there now. But I'm also not as sure about Kaze-town as I was D1. I think Xayzeck is obvtown and you and Penguin seem town enough.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

*as is obvious now after Tales and D1 here, I suck at reading Bork.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Sure. Are you going to do it now?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

All right, sounds good.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Penguin, why don't you like Xayzeck?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Okay we're gonna lynch justin and block Slainthe!

Sounds AMAZING.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I am going to kick myself in postgame if you mimiced my reads because "F-16 loves it when people see the game the same way he does."

But you had those reads before I did so I'm optimistic.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Nacho, thoughts on Kaze's ridiculous progression of

1) "F-16 is scum" to "not sure" to voting me.

2) The dumb push based on the spear co-inciding with my role.

3) Going from a null read on Rez to a null read on Rez.

How do any of these things make sense from town? If I felt good about Kaze, I'd just move forward with our plan and expect to win but I feel nowhere near as certain as I was D1.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Also, please explain what you make of Kaze checking out D2.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Also, I'm really glad to see you around. I've missed playing with you the last month.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Now that you caught up, LET'S GET THOSE JUSTIN VOTES ROLLING. FOR JUSTICE.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I am not in mood right now. Let's get it done so we can see the flip.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

That was mostly a joke. But only mostly. Also nacho left so we can only talk via texting back and forth atm; so if there's anything else you want, let me know like now.

Nope. Just want to indulge my impatience at this point.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I am going to kick myself in postgame if you mimiced my reads because "F-16 loves it when people see the game the same way he does."

But you had those reads before I did so I'm optimistic.

Yeah but will you kick yourself when it turns out we're town (we are) and we did that anyways to fuck with your head?

Why would I kick myself for correctly reading you as town?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

VOTE: Justin Playfair

Did you point out to Nacho the points I made about him?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Because I want to see a video of you kicking yourself since you're too uncool to go to meets/cons

Meh, I guess I'm just too private with my real life vs online life. I don't Skype either and sometimes I feel out of the loop because of that.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Lol at the scum trying to counterwagon me. It makes me laugh a bit.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

=====[] please. Screw the fakeclaims.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Do it quickly while Ffery is still online and checking this thread.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Also, Justin last posted 4 days ago.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I don't get the Xay suspicion. I mean Insanity's posts sucked and I am not 100% sure I can follow his town-scum-town read on me but his reads resonated like crazy. I found things off about the exact same things that he did and I can see where he is coming from with regard to his suspicion on Rez/Insanity/Slainte.

Also, does Nacho have an opinion on my accusation to Beli that he is buddying me?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I jailed Beli last night.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Why TF?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Lolwut?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I'm not getting lynched even if you flip town. Calling it a 1v1 seems like an appeal to fear. I don't get why you are trying tell everyone that I am town when no one has implied otherwise.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Well, you didn't call it a 1v1. You said scum would no kill to set up a 1v1. Except no one is actually going to buy it as a 1v1.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

When I flip, everyone will think you were lying scum today and lynch you tomorrow.

hahahaha, you're funny. I'll give you that.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

VOTE: Slainte Mhath

Can we please quicklynch and end this game?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Well, it could be Kaze actually. Who do you want to lynch today?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

All right, so we have four players besides me and Beli alive at this point. Let's consider how each of the remaining four players win the game if they are scum. Last night, they had two options: Kill me. No kill.

If Kaze is scum, I'd block him tonight and when there is a no kill, we lynch him. So, not killing me last night would be a losing strategy for Kaze unless he thinks that he can convince us that just like Beli, he too would flip town. His other option would be to kill me. That would leave {Kaze, Xay, TF, Penguin, with Beli as conftown}. Would Kaze get lynched here? I don't know. Xay is the only one who is really pushing him. Nacho and Beli would push Xay and with Kaze's vote, that'll be three and Xay gets lynched. Then Kaze kills Beli leaving a TF/Kaze/Penguin LYLO. It sucks for him but perhaps he could convince Cabd to push the suspicion of Penguin. It is winnable. Therefore I think scum-Kaze would have killed me last night.

Let's say Xay is scum and he no killed last night. We lynch Beli. Then I block Kaze. He does what? The best option is to no kill again and let Kaze get lynched. Then he nightkills me after my shots are used up. That leaves Xay, Penguin, TF LYLO. Is it ideal for him. I don't think so. He could leave me alive in LYLO both for paranoia purposes or to endgame me based on my misread of him. The other option for Xay is to kill me last night. That would leave him with Penguin, Kaze, Beli, and TF. He would be the one that would get lynched. So, no kill is the best option for Xay. (I still have a pretty strong townread on him though so I don't think this is the case).

I want to head out for a bit so I'll do TF/Penguin when I get back.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

UNVOTE:
I'll re-read this game to consider all the possibilities just because I'd hate to mislynch Beli so I want to cover all our bases. Beli, if you are scum, just claim now so we can end the game.

~~~

If TF is scum and they kill me last night, they would have to deal with a conftown Beli as well Penguin, Xayzeck, and Kaze. They'd probably be able to push that Xayzeck mislynch and kill Beli leaving them with Penguin and Kaze. I really do think they'd be able to talk their way out that lynch and lynch one of the others. On the other hand, the current scenario of mislynching Beli, then mislynching Kaze after I block him and leaving themselves in a 3P LYLO with Penguin and Xayzeck? That's a much more neat way to win with Penguin voting Xay in LYLO because she is reading Cabd as town. So, Beli is right that if TF is scum, they'd no kill last night.

If Penguin is scum, we get the exact same scenarios. She winds up with TF in LYLO and has to either mislynch Xayzeck or Kaze. Xay is preferable since TF suspects him as well so she too would benefit from no killing last night.

Of course, all of this is assuming that I block Kaze tonight which is the logical assumption for scum to make considering he was my other suspect besides Justin and Beli. It also assumes that Nacho wouldn't be able to manipulate me into blocking someone of his choosing. As for Penguin, she hasn't really been suggesting anything so I doubt it.

~~~

Overall, it doesn't really say much except validate Beli's theory that if TF really is scum, their optimal choice is to no kill.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Hey, I'm here. Kaze made his slot look bad D2. Fix it.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

F-16, I didn't like you early for a lot of the same reasons bork was saying. I hated your interaction with Nacho early. I also felt like your opening felt very clunky. When you started to show the train of thought behind your actions I felt better

The reasons that Bork said I was scum for was because I supposedly misrepresented Rez when I was genuinely trying to scumhunt him and figure him out. I responded by jumping off of Rez and accusing Bork of whiteknighting. I think we can both learn something from that. I don't get why you'd like Bork's attack in hindsight though considering Rez flipped scum. Also, my opening was a breadcrumb of my role. Did you read that part yet? My opening was clunky because I was trying to find words that start with j, a, i, l, r, and b. I never explained my "train of thought." What are you referring to?

I didn't like PA's townread on you either, because even though I was in that game I have 0 idae where she's coming from with the confidence angle.

Neither did I but we were hydra'ing for another game and she was evaluating my town play there apparently.

I don't like insanity's slot because all I've seen is typical peanut gallery bullshit and I have 0 idae why everyone leaped to lolnewbtown. I hate how entering D2 she did more than she did all of D1.

But Xayzeck's posts are amazingly town. How does that affect your view of the slot?

I don't like the item claim by gaelic hydra thing for what nacho's said, and I feel like they've just been there all game. I didn't like how they "talked about the game" and managed to miss the gladiate.

Why does it make them scum? Also, the actual reason I think they are scum: there was a no kill the night I blocked them.

I don't like nacho because he's always scum. I'm not anywhere near as paranoid of him atm as I expected to be though. I can't read cabd for shit, but I'm not really hating the slot so that's a plus

Hmm, so you have no read on them?

I don't like rez. I didn't like his early stance on you and nacho, I didn't like the unvote off my slot without any good reasoning about why (points to insanity for pointing that out though).

Well, he got lynched and flipped scum so.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

So, I think the game is probably going to end if we lynch Slainte. A couple of things make me worry though. Beli is generally paranoid as town and would go after the strongest player (I think Nacho mentioned this in the Tales of You thread) so him going after TF makes sense if he was town. I don't know why it didn't give Nacho cause for reconsideration.

NotScience looks townish. Xayzeck is town. Penguin is likely town. She was one of the first to vote Rez. I know she said she wants to incorporate bussing into her scumgame but I doubt she is doing it here. I also don't see any other lynch we'd have today and Beli's play by itself is scummy.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I think it is because his poetry was good.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

So, do you want to lynch SM? Or wait and analyze the whole game?

I want to analyze but I'm just not feeling like it at this point. But that could come back to bite us at MYLO/LYLO if we lynch wrong.

I am still not seeing why Beli thinks that both scum are threatened by me and therefore voted me in succession.

But then Beli voted for Justin pretty early. Your slot didn't. But Kaze's replace out makes me think town that is discouraged by his play. What are the chances Beli bussed?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I love your poems Xayzeck.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Let's say we do lynch Slainte and TF is scum and I block them. We go into tomorrow with 4 town 1 scum. Except TF will have a vote and a half. If it is >2 to lynch, then they'll have even more influence on the lynch.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I only have one block left. I am a 1x jailkeeper, 1x roleblocker.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

NotScience does look town and I'm confident you are town.

But the one thing that bugged me though was that Beli was quick to hop onto the Justin wagon in what would be an auto-loss for scum if he is scum. The plan was to lynch Justin and block Slainte and he rolled right with it. I'd think if he was scum, he'd object to it.

I don't know if he'd want to straight up vote me (as a "counterwagon" that was never going to go through) so I doubt he had a choice. He could always have pushed Insanity but once you towned up your slot, he'd be left without options. He could have pushed Kaze though. He might have been able to convince both of us to roll with that but if Nacho was town, he'd keep everyone grounded and not let that Kaze lynch get through.

IDK. What do you think of the way he just rolled with the plan?