Micro 346: Tuatha Dé Danann Mafia - Game Over!

[borkjerfkin]

I'm back(ish)!

VOTE: Tso

[borkjerfkin]

VOTE: f-16

[borkjerfkin]

This vote is borked up.

oh you

[borkjerfkin]

hi nacho

[borkjerfkin]

i'll be your queen

[borkjerfkin]

That was a pretty mediocre post actually. How the heck did that get you to back off?

I echo this sentiment

[borkjerfkin]

and why penguin? I've got an idea of people that generally react emotionally when wagoned early and she isn't on it

[borkjerfkin]

If you are town like I think, this game is a town win.

this is really hyperbolic for no reason, too.

[borkjerfkin]

I don't like the interaction between f16 and tf so far and that's about all I can say.

[borkjerfkin]

Right but these things that happen like 1) nacho dying early 2) your reads outside of each other being wrong etc. also happen.

Meh, I see the merit in the 'closely knit' playerlist thing which I honestly wasn't considering when I made that comment.

p-edit: @f16

[borkjerfkin]

ok sent now please sheep since bork isn't being my queen anymore

oh is that how that was supposed to go?

[borkjerfkin]

But yes, that's how it's supposed to go and instead you're calling me scum and not reveling in free town wins?

waht

[borkjerfkin]

I dislike that he's not chucklefucking with me, though: I hoped with me playing similar to the way I play in IRC mafia it would inspire the "trolling, yet protown" feel we love so much.

I'm also sober, so there's that.

This should not be any kind of data outlier for you, tonewise from me, imo.

[borkjerfkin]

I agree but I'm ambivalent on Bork.

If there's something you need from me in self-aware-ville I'm here to provide it.

Otherwise *Shrug*, it'll come.

[borkjerfkin]

Indictment of common poor early game behavior noted, but this isn't exactly what I'd call "being part of the solution," though.

Any reads outside of nacho-town?

[borkjerfkin]

If that's directed at me, I never said nachocabd was town. Just that I won't policy lynch them like I want to.

Cool, was just hoping you'd clarify #76.

[borkjerfkin]

Ugh. You're taking the bait.

Since when were you so fluffy? I remember you being one of the most antagonistically pushy people on this site not too long ago.

Are you going to make me have to read your recent games?

Upon rumination I am a decent fan of the sentiment behind this post.

[borkjerfkin]

What I don't get is why

you characterize "TF vs F-16" as if there had to be one scum among the two of us.

I don't see any evidence of this opinion being stated; how excatly are you interpreting #98 as "I think there is 1 scum between TF/F-16"?

I would also ask that you answer my previous question about your "ambivalence" on my slot - is that equivalent to 'lukewarm' or do you have conflicting data points?

[borkjerfkin]

I'll let that point sit dormant pending his response.

Fair enough on point two.

[borkjerfkin]

Bork, why the suspicion of a two-member wagon? On page two even.

The one on you? I was not put out by a two member wagon (empirically even, considering my vote on f-16 constituted one too) in and of itself.

I was a reacting to a specific request to

put a specific player to L-2

- that's a bit more noteworthy. Do you still think it was unwarranted to bring up?

[borkjerfkin]

Naked vote, no comment on nearly four pages of content?

Commentary is then pretty trivial. Where's the scum, rez?

VOTE: rez

Did you continue reading after this?

[borkjerfkin]

So far F-16 feels pretty confident, more than I'd expect from him getting a scum PM.

Sorry for chain posting, but:

do you have precedent with scum f-16 that caused you to make this statement?

[borkjerfkin]

I've revisited his posts in Wicked a decent amount since he snowed me there. And I have experience with town-F-16 for comparison.

Okay. I am going to read it myself for a baseline; I have no completed games w/ F-16 except hunterxhunter and he was town.

re: rez - no, I don't find #98 particularly town (save maybe the fact that he gave an unsolicited opinion about a thing but meh), but I wanted to see where you were at with it since you commented on #96 but not #98 two posts below it. He's null for me and I agree he's not done really anything noteworthy yet so I'll let that develop a bit.

p-edit: unpack TSO town please. Not seeing anything telling.

[borkjerfkin]

TSO - town is due to a degree of din'tgiveafuckosity that I don't think he can fake.

Do you gave precedent in a town game? Like I realize that sounds good on paper (for certain players) but I'd feel a little better if you actually can back it up.

[borkjerfkin]

penguin I just looked at the first page (hell, first post even) of Ghotackzsesasaasasa in wicked and I'm not seeing any lack of confidence or zeal or whatever that you claim is absent from f-16's scum game.

[borkjerfkin]

Someone tell me if it's weird. I don't wanna effort on my days off.

I have 2 completed games with TSO, 1 town 1 scum. Neither looked anything like this.

[borkjerfkin]

He's the slot I'm most worried about reading because I totally fucked up on him in Frozen.

[borkjerfkin]

Get used to me keeping TSO null then?

[borkjerfkin]

bork isn't reading me

It's not that I'm not reading you, it's that you aren't

doing

anything yet.

[borkjerfkin]

I'd think it useful if I believed it.

That [you didn't think he should have 4 town reads by that time in the game] doesn't seem to be what you were objecting about initially:

Literally everyone except four people i.e. half the playerlist. Insightful.

it looked to me like you were taking with the issue that he was being hyperbolic in his language when he said 'everyone but X' and then X turned out to be three people.

So which actually is it, and what's potentially scum motivated about it?

[borkjerfkin]

EBWOP: I accidentally some words

it looked to me like you were taking issue with

[borkjerfkin]

I think I mostly like Slaine Mthath tonewise, rez contentwise, and Kaze mostly too even if I think he's being confirmation biasy about TSO.

I don't have a 'can read Nacho' card so while I liked the entrance I don't really know what to do other than call them super weak town.

TSO/Insanity are not wowing me yet.

penguin and F-16 are actively worrying me. I don't really like how penguin jumped up rez's ass for really nothing, and gave F-16 a pass for something really flimsy.

F-16's angle on rez is really uninteresting/doesn't lead anywhere, and outside of that he's done essentially nothing.

[borkjerfkin]

to use Majiffysyntax (Bold = strong reads, Italics = weaker reads), that'd be:
T: {SM, Rez,

kaze

,

TF

} (TF probably belongs a tier below but meh)
N: {TSO, Insanity}
S: {

F-16

,

Penguin

} (both are weak)

[borkjerfkin]

What's confbias-y about my TSO read?

I don't understand the transition from your sarcastic "how insightful" as if the number of reads he gave was uninteresting, to "I don't even believe you have those reads at all".

[borkjerfkin]

I realize that's a restatement of what I just said, but your explanation didn't help me as much as I'd hoped it would.

TSO - explain some of your reads? Fluff time is over.

[borkjerfkin]

The joke of "how insightful" was not only because I think they're fake but because they even sounded fake to me because lol literally everyone except half.

Mkay?

Okay.

[borkjerfkin]

I am having frozen flashbacks.

[borkjerfkin]

I am becoming convinced of it.

[borkjerfkin]

This is almost identical (albeit delayed) from frozen vs notscience. Tonally and by virtue of him attacking he who attacked him.

His attack on you if very clearly not omgus (voting you merely for your vote on him)

F-16: you continue to disappoint.

[borkjerfkin]

I'm not convinced either of you are scum, but I'll get back to it.

Hey F-16, I'll humor you: where is your imaginary seam between scum me "white knighting" a dude and town me doing the type of defending that doesn't have any silly buzzword baggage associated with it?

[borkjerfkin]

You're faking ALL your reads because SCUM DON'T HAVE READS.

remember when I said you were being confirmation biasy?

[borkjerfkin]

That would imply you think -I'm- scum?

Was this to me? You're not interpreting me correctly if it is.

[borkjerfkin]

was a typo (should've said 'is' .Was in the bathroom on my phone.)

[your attack on Kaze was NOT OMGUS]

[borkjerfkin]

But there's a very good chance he's just obstinate that you won't play ball for him.

[borkjerfkin]

But we should talk more about F-16's little potshot at me before he ran off again.

[borkjerfkin]

And I feel like he'd be better than this as town too, and yet here we are.

[borkjerfkin]

I don't think so - he literally has no evolution from when he goes to "kinda jokey, kinda not" straight to "you're faking your reads." You can see it very clearly if you read through recent pages.

I do see it (and have commented on it) and I don't know if it's scummy.

[borkjerfkin]

Either way I feel incredibly better about you, so there's that.

[borkjerfkin]

F-16 is incredibly probably scum.

The way he said that T S O was "clearly" not OMGUSing felt like he knew T S O was town.

Or, you know, I read the part where he said Kaze was scum because he's asserting something he can't know (and not for voting TSO, which is what an OMGUS would be).

bork overall doesn't give the air of someone who is uninformed or trying to figure the game out, it feels like he knows the answers, knows who is town and is interjecting himself wherever he feels it is beneficial.

Garbage nonstatement to spin an arbitrary narrative, and pretty empirically not true to boot, especially considering how I'm trying to parse the TSO vs Kaze thing? Are you even reading this?

expressed concern about Penguin's posting and asked why she was townreading me so easily. I wondered if she was scum whiteknighting me because she knew I was town. I think this would have occurred to Bork if he was town. It feels like he is shoehorning reads that feel convenient to him.

That penguin is bullshitting a read is precisely why I scumread her? What that means about you is pretty clearly secondary to that when I'm talking about her, yeah?

Shoehorning reads that feel convenient to him

This is the sort of argument that scum players post.

[borkjerfkin]

p-edit: oh.

[borkjerfkin]

You should both probably fullclaim unless you think there's a better way to handle this (I don't).

[borkjerfkin]

I'm worried that this is potentially town on town.

Meanwhile just look at F-16's last post and the amount of utter spin he puts on the motivations of what I'm doing.

[borkjerfkin]

Eh.

[borkjerfkin]

I require one Nacho

[borkjerfkin]

Leaning voting kaze.

[borkjerfkin]

If F-16 indeed is scum, TSO is incredibly likely not to be considering how hard F16's purporting this white knighting garbage (lol still have no idea how my defense of TSO in an instance where he was being misrepresented, either accidentally or on purpose, => scum 'white knighting'. I don't think you know either)

Converse (TSO town => f16 scum) is not something I'm really interested in arguing and it's a worse thing to be wrong about considering it would take a town flip to even get to that point. Contrarily, F16 looks content to line up lynches in that he seems to want to flip TSO so that I'll allegedly look worse for it and be lynchable.

Of course this kinda falls apart when Nacho comes in and laughs you out of the thread - there is zero chance he scumreads me here, even if he isn't town.

[borkjerfkin]

Please read posts 205 and 221.

[borkjerfkin]

Colloquially on this site the term is used for when a person is ardently defending another without good reason or because he knows that person to be town already (because he himself is scum)

I can get into why that is a begging the question fallacy from f16 for explaining why I am scum, but that is the gist of the definition.

[borkjerfkin]

It's also not really what I'm doing, but I digress.

[borkjerfkin]

I'm going to attempt to have you two go back to the beginning with your suspicions on each other because the communication between you two is crap.

First question is to Kaze: how do you know TSO is faking his reads? I don't want an answer that has anything to do with meta because that isn't relevant.

[borkjerfkin]

then you can eat me because thats the answer you were going to get

Fuck that.

You want to meet me halfway here? How did you get from 'light tonal suspicion from early game fluff' to 'herp derp let's use a gladiator right the fuck now because ???'

That really wouldn't have kept till later? I don't see the motivation for EITHER alignment to have used that when half the playerlist is still getting a handle on transition out of RVS.

I can't see your progression on your read, and when I absolutely have to vote you or your primary suspect I really don't want to fuck it up.

Throw me a bone.

[borkjerfkin]

I'm not sure scum Kaze could've posted 280.

Fuck this fucking mechanic.

[borkjerfkin]

your reads are fake because youre scum and youre scum because of stuff i already covered

And this is tantamount to circular reasoning considering he was scum for making up his reads before.

Without that point your case boils down to meta (and really cursory meta to boot imo).

Bork, scum-Kaze could easily post angry-sounding drivel.

I need to look at Flavourless, I suppose. Anywhere else you want to point me?

[borkjerfkin]

TSO I don't think there is anything to be gained by not outing reads at this point - your grievance against Kaze for not being able to know that your reads are genuine is pretty well documented at this point.

[borkjerfkin]

Kaze:
what are your non-TSO reads (I'm waiting for like the one time I catch you in a mood where you you decide not to blow me off for once)?

Slainte:

1) get your head in it (thought both heads were aware of gladiate by now?)
2) there is literally nothing in Insanity's ISO that at all strikes me as IIoA. Examples?

Nacho:
Where the fuck?

[borkjerfkin]

Only two things I have to say regarding F-16's stuff (most of it is unsubstantiated repetition):

1) I think people can see that I felt F-16's question was a misrepresentation of Rez's position and as such it warranted scrutiny - it does not serve as a defense of Rez and I don't see how Rez's alignment is even relevant to the fact that I was pushing F-16 there. I have no apologies for jumping in on it when I did, and his continued accusation of 'defending people I know are town' is STILL circular reasoning.

2)

Bork interpreting Penguin's townread of me as between scumbuddies

At no point did I EVER state that I thought this. I said:

I don't really like how penguin jumped up rez's ass for really nothing, and gave F-16 a pass for something really flimsy.

Once again, I'm not relying on the alignment of F-16 there to say something about penguin because it

doesn't matter:

scum can have this kind of interaction with either alignment.

The scumreads I have on both slots were pretty obviously independent, and I'm not looking on D1 to establish who makes sense with what buddy because I have no flips yet. I'm trying to lynch the person most likely to flip scum, independent of all other factors, and by this point in the game that's F-16 by a mile. This is pretty basic stuff - I'm not going for association pre-flip, because by it's very nature it's going to be suboptimal tomorrow: I'll know more tomorrow than I do now, some of which will be invalidated by flips I could be wrong about.

I feel like it's responsible for me to attempt to reevaluate here but I'm having a really hard time seeing someone hard scumreading me at this point in the game, much less for the reasons F-16 has given - I feel I've been incredibly active, cogent, and transparent and there has been almost zero engagement from him to me. He also just finished a game where I was scum and I feel like that'd be something fresh in his mind to contrast to how I'm playing here if he were town, which imo is nothing like in that game, but I see no indication that he's even thinking about it.

[borkjerfkin]

So it's a deathtunnel. Gotcha.

Are you townreading F-16?
If so:
Why?
Do you agree with him about me?

What other reads do you have?

[borkjerfkin]

I asked ffery if scum were allowed to factional kill and perform a second action the same night in this game and she declined to answer.

If the answer had been 'no', I'd be voting Kaze right now - TSO has another action that would have been able to be used to ensure he couldn't make a kill and use it simultaneously.

Looking at Tarot UPick, she DID allow this (GIF did it N1) so I don't think this is something we can rely on.

I'm still going to probably vote Kaze at this point, but I don't feel very strongly that Kaze is scum (he's done some things that pull me in both directions); just I'm more sold on TSO-town.

[borkjerfkin]

Can you lot please vote Kaze? Like 4 people have said they will, but no-one's doing it yet.

I'm in a holding pattern till shit happens with the Trolling Fairy slot and since we're literally locked into the two of you I'm not terribly concerned about deadline and more concerned than normal about forcing d1 interactions since I can't look at votes.

[borkjerfkin]

although I am much less sure about T S O

I thought 'white knighting TSO' was one of the reasons I'm scum?

[borkjerfkin]

Nope! I have yet to sort F-16. Frankly, I 'm currently more concerned with sorting you after Tales of You, but I saw a possibility that TSO might be able to help me sort F-16, and TSO might not be alive tomorrow, so you're damned right I wanted to capitalise on it.

Okay...? I'm not really sure I expected this sentiment from you (You scumread my slot pretty early in Tales, even if ffery didn't, yeah?) but whatever I can roll with that in and of itself, but I'm not sure what to tell you other than to read tales again?

Are you concerned with anything I've done

this

game? If so, what and why?

The "it's a deathtunnel, gotcha" sounded like you were dismissing TSO's F-16 read as confirmation bias, which is why I wanted to clarify if you thought F-16 was town.

I don't know how you're expecting to get read if you're not really engaging the majority of the playerlist, but I'm here: what do you want to talk about?

[borkjerfkin]

Okay...? I'm not really sure I expected this sentiment from you (You scumread my slot pretty early in Tales, even if ffery didn't, yeah?) but whatever I can roll with that in and of itself, but I'm not sure what to tell you other than to read tales again?

On the other hand, F-16 was positively snowed by me through the first half of Tales to my recollection (I don't really want to parse through Abyss neighborhood QT/PT again, but that's pretty much how it felt to me at the time) and I feel like he should be double secret scrutinizing me this game - I recall him going to meta for people a lot in Tales; hasn't even brought up Tales here.

Probably because it

doesn't fit the narrative.

[borkjerfkin]

But now that you bring it up, why did it strike you as odd or unusual that I was cautious about an early read on you when Nacho townread you? I thought the implication should have been pretty obvious.

I don't think that's odd. I asked about why you were ambivalent because I wanted to know why and I wanted to read you via your answer. Tell me with a straight face that wasn't clear.

I think it's odd you're scumreading me now (to the effect of I'm the only person you are sure is scum or whatever the fuck you said) for what you've stated, which is tantamount to really nebulous shit like "it feels like he's shoehorning reads" or "it feels like he knows who is town" despite your alleged uncertainty of the people I'm supposedly scum-town interacting with to fuel your scumread (aka circular reasoning).

Actually maybe just read my ISO?

[borkjerfkin]

you suspect me for scumhunting

Lol. I seriously don't know what else to say if you got

that

from my ISO.

Your push on Rez was uninteresting (maybe underwhelming is the better word) to me because it was based on altering semantics to divine a different (and misrepresented) meaning than the actual meaning of what he said, and calling you out on that was the responsible thing to do.

[borkjerfkin]

I too have some suspicions of Penguin but she doesn't suspect me so the natural inclination would be to work with me to lynch her and worry about me later but you are again pulling the same stuff FoxHound pulled with me/AP in brushing aside the Penguin read as a weaker read and your read on me as something you need to focus on completely disregarding me/Penguin interactions make sense as me-town/Penguin-scum and both town much, much more than me-scum/Penguin-town or both scum.

1) Once again, I'm not worrying about interactions pre-flip. Penguin has been a non-presence; your interaction with penguin is pretty much a nonfactor to me. It's easy to question a person about a thing one time. Whoopdeeshit.
2) I don't know believe that you legitimately think transposing Fox "person who isn't bork" Hound's motivation with a bunch of people in Tales "Game that is over and you know the alignment of everyone in" of You is going to magically make some kind of puzzle fall into place. This is fucking lazy and bad.
3) The "natural inclination" of you. Honestly, what the fuck are you talking about?

[borkjerfkin]

This would have been an honest misinterpretation on your part if I hadn't explicitly clarified in the very next post what I was getting at. But I did.

And I still disagree with your interpretation of it, and here we are. Like I told muffin on Touhou u-pick 2 as he tried to accuse me of not having a good reason to suspect him - it planted the seed of suspicion that strengthened with his later posts.

So it is for you as well. Also pretty clear from my ISO.

[borkjerfkin]

3) The "natural inclination" of who*

Should have read as such

[borkjerfkin]

1) This is a generic answer that looks good on the surface. It feels like something straight out of a mafia guide. "Don't consider interactions pre-flip." "Don't make associative tells before you know a person's alignment." But realistically, I don't believe you legitimately missed that we shared a scumread and aren't factoring it in. When two of your scumreads suspect each other, or one suspects the other, it makes people take a step back and question what's going on. You can't operate in a vacuum where all your reads are indepedent and it feels more your reads are ones of convenience.

2) I feel that incomprehensible thought processes often come from scum. If you are scumreading Penguin and I am too, the natural reaction would be to consider why it is the case. You certainly considered the fact that Penguin was townreading me as a reason that she was scum. I did too. Why didn't it make you question your scumread on me when I too called her out for giving me an easy pass?

Not gonna beat this point to death any more:
I scumread you early.
I scumread penguin early.
You don't have to make sense as partners. There is this thing called "reading back and analyzing flips after you hopefully lynch scum". It is a thing that town players do.
Your early attack on penguin is such a light interaction that it's such a non-point (especially as a cornerstone of your scum argument on me) and is not some huge negative fucking connection that you're making it out to be, hence my non-reaction to it. Anyone can come in and push another player in the early game: T-T, T-S, S-S.

3) This point is incomprehensible so I am just going to add gibberish to make it seem like I responded to it. Gibberish, bullshit, fluff, puff, nothingness, words, words, words, more of Bork's bullshit, rubbish, shoehorned, scumreads.

Sounds good man. I don't really want to shit up the thread so I'm gonna just ignore this.

[borkjerfkin]

It felt odd that Rez would classify two people townreading each other as TF vs F-16 and say that if there is one scum in there, it is me.

Here is what actually happened:

What I don't get is why

you characterize "TF vs F-16" as if there had to be one scum among the two of us.

I don't see any evidence of this opinion being stated; how excatly are you interpreting #98 as "I think there is 1 scum between TF/F-16"?

I felt that you misrepresented that statement as, to me, he said no such thing that there had to be one scum there. Is that a

huge

deal by itself? No. but it's a small deal and it gave me a place to start - my issue is that there was what I felt was an obvious correct way to interpret Rez' comment and you didn't have it.

The whole language thing with the way he used 'vs' I just don't see the relevance of. You and TF briefly sparred, I commented on your interaction myself, it's not really unusual Rez'd use the term vs. there.

Sometimes people question people's line of questioning in mafia. His answer was not going to change the fact that you misrepped the statement. But I'm scum because I talked out of turn? No, I most certainly am not.

[borkjerfkin]

I am not arguing that his phrasing is scummy, but the way you interfered into my scumhunting efforts felt scummy.

And I'm arguing that's a bad argument and I've explained why I jumped in when I did.

And a bunch of other things I've already said.

If I'm wrong about you we can pow-wow about it post game about where we went wrong here but you're so far off the mark with me (seriously, if you somehow are town, FUCKING READ TALES OF YOU AGAIN JESUS; I thought I've heard you say you're generally at least somewhat a meta player, if I'm wrong about that then so be it) I'm just staring at you and frowning most of the time.

I'm a little worried about my own conf-bias here but I can't see #349 [I need to consider your interaction with (unflipped!) penguin and immediately see you're town, I didn't so I'm scum] coming from town.

I don't think I've got anything else to say here.

[borkjerfkin]

I was accusing you of shoehorning because I think for most people as town, if they see something that matches their thoughts very closely, they tend to townread the poster and it is only natural.

1) Let's forget about the fact that you voiced the same thought I did for a second - the interaction by itself was really minor, and not one that I can, in good confidence, say could not come from S-S, and EVEN IF IT DID I didn't have a flip to figure out who was the T.

2) Taking into account that you did voice the same opinion I did, maybe by itself I would give you a 'hair left of center' townread. It's simply not something I put very much thought to because the

interaction itself was extremely banal and superficial and null.

If someone posts a readlist that is almost the exact same as mine or some really in depth analysis that feels like it echoes my thoughts, then we can talk about that.

3) I don't know what 'shoehorning' means other than 'doing a thing that doesn't make sense to me' but with unnecessary baggage to spin a narrative. You talk about 'convenient' reads and then hedge with 'mmm he picked me to push and I don't think I'm an easy target'. So what exactly is convenient about it? You think I need to discredit you to save myself from a lynch? Most of the game is townreading me. Nacho's going to come in here and townread the

fuck

out of me (and Cabd should, but doesn't have as extensive experience as Nacho does, and I never really had to shouting match anyone in GIF-touhou because mollie-majiffy hydra lol so I don't know that he's seen this side of me oh wait he reads every game ever)

[borkjerfkin]

Bork: what be thy take on insanity, who presently scareth the hell out of me?

Light on content, but it's not IIoA to me as you have claimed it is - what looks IIoA from her? She's offered at least a few reads too, unprompted, which isn't a bad thing.
I don't really even see anything that makes me go 'hmmm' from her. What's scary about her?

My character name is Morrigan.

[borkjerfkin]

1) Let's forget about the fact that you voiced the same thought I did for a second - the interaction by itself was really minor, and not one that I can, in good confidence, say could not come from S-S, and EVEN IF IT DID I didn't have a flip to figure out who was the T.

To put this in a better way: If player A and player B exhibit what looks like a really obvious negative interaction, and A flips scum, and I attempt to push B, then someone gets to call me out on it.

That is light years more substantial than what happened between you and penguin in every way.

[borkjerfkin]

"Not IIOA?" What the fuck does that even mean in context? Looks like a poor excuse to plop down a weak defense and gain an ally.

Or you could read the fucking game where Slainthe called her posts IIoA.

[borkjerfkin]

All of nacho's reads are past their expiration date, for the record, so yeah.

And yours?

[borkjerfkin]

Check back in.

[borkjerfkin]

With this stupid gladiate shit i kinda checked out.

Heh, how many gladiator roles did you have in Tales?

(you're right it's a bad role don't use it)

[borkjerfkin]

yayyy

[borkjerfkin]

Because Y coming in and saying "X looks town from meta" when X doesn't look town from meta says something about Y and NOTHING about X. You want to tell me

1) this is a negative interaction in that scum penguin likely would not have said that about scum you?
2) this is such a strong penguin scumtell that I should dismiss/devalue the case where town penguin is wrong about scum you and I should ignore other things (like the rest of your ISO) in favor of it? Not everything fits one particular preconceived notion when you're town, and the fact that I'm not trying to push the two of you as buddies (although it's still fucking possible, I just don't know yet) is extremely relevant to this, as is the fact that I've explained this like 3 times by now.

Because that's NOT HOW SCUMHUNTING WORKS. Penguin/you flips scum? THEN I start to care about your interactions (and probably am still discounting this one because I think this particular interaction is easy to make as any alignment - there's no hard push there or even a vote). Till then I'm sighting my strongest scum read.

Why the hell are you being so obtuse?

[borkjerfkin]

Slainte do you want to talk re: my 360?

[borkjerfkin]

You are giving a ton of hypotheticals that are possible but you aren't actually considering whether any of them are likely. If you actually read Wicked, you'd notice that I never questioned Penguin's townread on me. I just let her defend me. I know enough about Penguin's play to know that she doesn't take scumreads on her lightly and pushes people that scumread her quite a bit. That's a major reason I didn't ever scumread her and Cabd in Wicked because I didn't want to unleash what would happen if I did it. When she got paranoid of me for a while, I continued to townread her while addressing her concerns. Like, if I were scum here and Penguin was town, there's not a chance I'd respond the way I did.

Look, I'm not going to hold myself to an arbitrary scumhunting standard you're purporting I'm scum for not following. Sorry. Town you doesn't use the fact that I don't know this tidbit as ammo against me, and that's not even getting into the fallacious [you did a thing one time -> you will do this thing every time]

Nice to know you're willing to use meta when it suits you. Waiting for you to meta me though. I dare you. If you can get me ML'd off anything resembling a meta case I will donate my gonads to science (@MOD this is not an out of game wager I am not actually going to do this) and I hate to pull a tammy here but hi I'm bork and I town harder than town town's when I'm town which I am town this game.

And X also saying that X doesn't look town from meta and scumreading Y for a poor read isn't alignment indicative for X?

There an echo in here? Not much. Maybe it would influence me a little. Not every piece of evidence is going to point me the same way etc. etc. Pretty sure I've said all this.

Beli hasn't really done anything in this game to give any sort of read but he is town based on tone?

If you actually thought that's a scummy thing to say (it's not) you'd jump up Beli's ass for saying it about TSO. You could have engaged me on it when I said it if you were concerned about my read at the time, especially if you were concerned that he'd not done enough to warrant a townread, although I'd not have been able to say anything more than gut.

(For those that are town: SM read has atrophied a little due to lack of game presence / fluff. Waiting for evidence of their desire to be read. Offering role stuff up unprompted is something I generally see from town, though.)

Anyway I have to be done with this shouting match; it's probably actively scaring people out of the thread at this point and therefore anti-town. You can even have the last word if you want. I think people should have a pretty damn good idea about why I feel the way I do about you. Welcoming counterarguments (but probably tomorrow) and I will do my best not to let confirmation bias dismiss shit I've legitimately missed.

[borkjerfkin]

amending my statement about Insanity:

I like that she has a stance on TSO vs Kaze and I can see the reasoning behind it.
I liked that she had early stances on various people in the game and gave fairly specific reasons for them.

if I'm dissatisfied with anything from her it's that she's kinda softballing in general: all her stances on people generally are town stances and it's left her not really pushing anyone. This isn't necessarily scum motivated (I can see town reasons for doing this) but the potential for scum motivation is at least visible here. It's probably too playstyle specific to move me one way or the other.

Insanity: are you reading anyone as scum since your Rez vote? Is Rez still looking bad to you?

[borkjerfkin]

Still town reading F-16, kind of like bork's engagement with F-16 here even if half the posts did their best to put me to sleep.

If you think this is town on town I am seriously all ears as to where I'm going wrong.

[borkjerfkin]

Because he knows I deathtunnel, and he tried to back away, but I made my stance clear.

I think he's scum, but even if he isn't, he deserves to die.

Don't really understand why you're saying this. Did you think he gladiated you to remove a threat? If he's scum there's a much easier way of getting rid of you than using a gladiate on you.

[borkjerfkin]

I don't feel that rez is showing much attempts to scum hunt and only seems to post when answering people's questions. He also hasn't posted the past four days...

It's probably a siteflake rather than active lurking, imo.

[borkjerfkin]

But he'd be dead by the night.

How's that? You didn't really have a whole lot of support (hell, you still don't)

[borkjerfkin]

My own hesitance IS due to his play (mostly his utter cantankerousness) and not the gladiate. I've fallen into (X role cannot be a scum/town role => X is town/scum) traps and it feels shitty to think back and say 'if I'd just looked at their play I might've figured it out'. The manner in which he used it is confusing for either alignment, and has had a huge demoralizing effect on the game.

Half the shit you quoted happened post gladiate anyway - most of us were still trying to get our bearings on the argument when he did it. Hell, I think I was the only other person even around. So I think you're really misrepresenting (possibly unintentionally) the gamestate at the point he used it.

[borkjerfkin]

To be fair, if Bork is town, his play hasn't been stellar either although perhaps better than mine since he is a little more engaged but why is he town?

Also this is my one reachout to your hypothetical town-self:

You are wrong. You have many avenues into seeing that you are wrong - you could do even a cursory amount of meta on me, or you can realize that I legitimately am not considering an interaction with a player I don't know the alignment of and my play makes sense from that assumption.

The fact that you're willing to call my entire game less than stellar despite the fact that 1) it's day 1 and no one has been mislynched 2) I'm engaging every single slot as well as I possibly can, and 3) every single player in the game that has a read on me disagrees with you suggests to me that you're considering my play in the microcosm of my read on you and

nowhere else.

And maybe I'm doing it too, now, at least a little - but you even admit you're not doing much else but tunnel me.

But that's an amount of confirmation bias in myself that I can at least admit to.

I really don't know what else to say to you other than that

you frustrate me.

[borkjerfkin]

assume, then, it's town-town. it comes down to a question of who you feel will catch scum.

I think I'm obvtown as fuck, but meh.

Meh indeed. I wish you engaged a little more outside your spat w/ Kaze. I wish he would too.

[borkjerfkin]

You were gonna give reads, too?

[borkjerfkin]

now-reads would be fine.

[borkjerfkin]

assume, then, it's town-town. it comes down to a question of who you feel will catch scum.

I think you're both really good players.
I'm probably worse at reading you (I reread Frozen a lot.)

[borkjerfkin]

why?

[borkjerfkin]

ah, Frozen.

To be fair I'd never have lynched you if Majiffy hadn't quickhammered you and you'd have been allowed to claim, but yeah.

[borkjerfkin]

But for reals why so hesitant on reads at this point?

[borkjerfkin]

Okay.

[borkjerfkin]

Laptop was stolen, again

That really fucking sucks man. Sorry to hear.

[borkjerfkin]

I love you by the way, thanks for playing another game <3

<3

I decided one micro at a time is my limit. Working well so far!

[borkjerfkin]

You think it's Slainte/Insanity?

[borkjerfkin]

I don't really understand 426 on first read but I also have to poop so back in a few

[borkjerfkin]

F-16 town feeling the way he feels about me would make me fucking sad

[borkjerfkin]

Well, I think I've done all I should in my avenue of communication with him - no one's reacting strongly to it either way and it's probably healthy for me to reset every once in a while.

I'm struggling to get townreads due to the lethargy/apathy that this gladiate brought on.

I don't know how to reliably read you early game and as such you're gonna stay in my one-man 'hopeful' pile but I see literally nothing that makes my eyes bug out about you yet.

[borkjerfkin]

Still sticking to what I said about Kaze though - I don't see anything #280 or after likely from scum.

p-edit: was hoping I'd have the honor of that...it's been a while.

[borkjerfkin]

Do you get my point about ffery mod meta yet?

I get the gist - she's generally pretty by the book as far as abilities go.

I don't really see what their game is with the item thing either way. It's not something I'd think to fabricate as scum.

[borkjerfkin]

I'll agree with this much: there's nothing in my role that even hints at any kind of flavor based fuckery.

[borkjerfkin]

323, 325 & 333 is a weird Slainte progression. I don't know what TSO's response was supposed to have done for Slainte's F-16 read because it didn't look like it did anything from what he said in 333.

Anyway I was high on Slainte early and am considerably less so now.

How are you feeling about penguin? I don't really know what to do with her.

[borkjerfkin]

I feel like your development of your read on me doesn't make much sense at all specifically the interjection into my line of questioning and the followup "uninteresting" feels like you had already made up your mind.

Not getting into this again man. I explained how I got to where I was.

[borkjerfkin]

Why is Nacho scum?

[borkjerfkin]

For what it is worth, don't interrupt other players lines of questioning.

Duly noted.

[borkjerfkin]

I did answer that. It feels like you are posturing against me and whiteknighting Bork.

How do you discern between scum defending town and town defending town?

Because I had an issue with this when you said it about me -> TSO too.

[borkjerfkin]

Scum defending town feels manipulative. Town defending town (or scum for that matter because town don't know who the town are) feels genuine. I think scum tend to have a greater level of certainty in their townreads in a very unnatural way.

How are you applying this to the example at hand?

[borkjerfkin]

Nacho's doing the same thing defending Bork as he did me in Tales of You. He's defending people that aren't going to be lynched. Most people have Bork as town and if he is scum, it'll take a massive amount of effort to get him lynched. Defending Bork isn't a priority, derailing his lynch isn't a priority. Because he is nowhere close to being lynched. This was very similar to Nacho's defense of me in Tales as well.

I don't really like this explanation considering the bulk of the interaction on this was between him and you, not him and me.
Having the read wrong was a really small part of it FMPOV - the rest was you applying what appears to me a double standard to Nacho - you never really found out why he was townreading me before you launched into white knighting accusations. How do you know how genuine the read is?

On the other hand, there is a very good chance Kaze could be mislynched today.

Only relevant if you think TSO is scum, in which case you should be acting very differently than you are about him.

[borkjerfkin]

Wow. I am so surprised you don't like it!

Unproductive. If you're town, fucking stop it or I'm just going to stop talking to you and just talk about what I observe about you to other people. K?

You are kidding, right?

No.

[borkjerfkin]

He could be scum. I don't know. I hope he is. The only thing I am sure of is that I don't want to lynch someone I am 100% sure is town.

Nacho is townreading them both, so I don't see the scum motivation you're attributing to his voting Kaze, and your attribution of scum motivation on Nacho for going after Kaze would make more sense if you had more of a suspicion on TSO than "well he's not Kaze and I have to vote one of them"

[borkjerfkin]

"I don't like the explanation" without really engaging it feels a bit ridiculous.

I...did engage it? It's not like I didn't post why I didn't like it.

[borkjerfkin]

Bork, will you please quit it with the holier than thou attitude?

If we're both town we're probably going to have some apologizing to do to each other post game. Not intentionally trying to do this and I'm not upset to the point where I'm even considering ad-hom, but I do need to convey my thoughts.

p-edit: and you just threw all that out the window with that last post. Thanks for that.

[borkjerfkin]

I don't know; I have town reads on both of you, but the actual back-and-forth just makes me want to stick my fingers in a shredder to distract me from the pain.

I'm not satisfied with this answer. Our dialog isn't really rhetorical and it's not particularly hard to follow - what's your beef with reading it and what's the basis for your townread (which is obviously want I really wanted to know here and you didn't say anything about it)

[borkjerfkin]

I'm not really satisfied with anything in 507.

[borkjerfkin]

Actually, looking back at our mutual games, I think I left the reading of you to Nacho in Vesperia (or were you obvtown?), got fooled by you in Narnia, and don't remember your play in Open 505 or Open 459. OK, I don't like my town read on you as much as my town read on F-16.

I was obvtown in Vesperia and I'm even more obvtown here - there is no hydra partner to distract people from reading the essence of bork.
This is definitely a summary of things that have happened at points in my career I guess? I don't see how any of this is relevant to the here and now. (you're even missing a few games we have together, which is actually quite a few! again, are you actually metaing me or what is going on here?)
You're still not answering my questions.

Didn't say it was rhetorical, just that it feels yelly. And unproductive in a conflict-generating way.

Okay...I'll grant that it went on a lot, and generated conflict (sometimes conflict is a thing), and the only thing I heard you say about it was that you were confused by a few things originating from his side of the argument. Nothing about what I'm saying. Am I saying things you disagree with? Are you reading it? I get it's a back and forth. It's not too much to read.
Seriously, do you want to explain your read on F-16? I've asked pretty clearly more than once about it.

[borkjerfkin]

I think I officially have no handle on the game.

[borkjerfkin]

I know you haven't voted, but it was his interpretation that you were driving the lynch toward Kaze and he was countering it (maybe the first part is superfluous)

[borkjerfkin]

He answered for you just as he answered for Rez earlier.

What is this now

[borkjerfkin]

And now I have another data point on scum-TSO from Mini 1568. Will give that another look through since I stopped reading it a while ago and make a decision, since we're two days out from deadline.

This is a town post

[borkjerfkin]

@Bork, I'm starting to lean Penguin town but why is that post a town post?

Don't see scum itching to bust out fresh meta on a clutch person the minute it becomes available. That she referred to it shows me where her head is: sorting them.

[borkjerfkin]

Some scum do that better than others, and they do it better or worse at certain times.

I gutread that post as town because of when it was posted and how relevant it is to the gamestate right now.

I still feel like you're trying to just impede me at every turn rather than try to figure this game out. Do you think she's scum still?

[borkjerfkin]

This is how I feel I was treated by muffin in touhou upick 2. Tried to get into it with me early, hit a dead end with it, and just settled for throwing doubts on my reads instead.

[borkjerfkin]

I still can't follow your Nacho scumread, either. It's based on ostensible personal experience with what you think he would do via meta and not anything he's actually done this game that exudes scum motivation. Please explain it better.

[borkjerfkin]

Well that's funny because that's how I felt about your initial interaction with me. I wonder why someone who has no qualms about butting into other player's lines of questioning feel that their scumhunting is "impeded" but I digress.

That was done in an attempt to

sort you.

I literally don't know what else to say about this that hasn't already been said. I'm sorry you were offended by it and I will formally apologize post game if you're town and actually raw about it.

I disagree with your Penguin read. I don't know what that means with regards to my reads yet. I want Penguin to be town but I am not feeling townvibes, at least not yet. You could be town and town-reading scum-Penguin which means your read is rather naive. You could be scum whiteknighting Penguin and giving her an easy out for a supposedly "good" looking post. You are not against bussing as evidenced by your Angry Pidgeon interactions in Tales Of You so it could even be both of you being scum. Or you could be town correctly townreading town-Penguin and I am massively off somewhere. If I have to pick one player that I want to be town, I'd probably say Penguin. If I have to pick the one I think is more likely to be town, I'd say you.

Christ, if you're reading tales of you to remember how I was interacting with AP then you should have seriously zero doubt I'm town this game. I'm not a very good scum player in that I absolutely cannot emulate my towngame as scum, which isn't a problem when I'm against people I've never played with before, but seriously there is a reason that I guaranteed that Nacho was gonna townread me in this game.

Anyway, yes, this is all the possibilities to an outside party for penguin and me. You

don't

have to pick the one that is more likely to be town, though -- where's that even coming from? We could both be town, yeah? Why do you want penguin to be town as opposed to other players?

About the read itself -- I don't object to a penguin read that is expecting certain town notes that she hasn't hit yet, because I (mostly) agree based on lack of presence and points about my past play that she hasn't explained very well. Except for that last post - it betrays a mindset that I think is coming from a town place.

[borkjerfkin]

I think you as town are townreading a scumread of mine. Or at least, I think that's the most likely scenario.

Let's work it out then. Is anything overtly scummy to you since her opening with the awkward meta on you?

Why does it betray a town mindset? Why would she not make a reference to a game she would be expected to make a reference to anyways? She is not incompetent as scum. If a recent game just finishes, sure she'll add in something about it to make it seem like she is scumhunting. I feel that it is null.

It's just, for me, the likelihood that she comes to this game with a need to sort them such that she's got TSO on the brain is higher as town than scum due to the responsibility town has to not vote sub-optimally here.

It's probably more null than town if one of Kaze/TSO actually is scum. But if they're both town, it's way more likely that she's seriously fretting about it than trying to angle her way into voting one or the other because it doesn't actually matter which way she goes.

[borkjerfkin]

VOTE: TSO

[borkjerfkin]

[borkjerfkin]

I really want this to be the last run-in I have with the gladiator role.

[borkjerfkin]

Yeah I don't care considering the false dichotomous nature of this whole thing.

You promised me reads?

[borkjerfkin]

What? my post is 4 seperate thoughts, not 4 parts of one thought interrupted by quotes.
The only thing that might indicate your hydraness was using 'Our' in your second post, but the OP doesn't say anything about it like it does for Trolling Fairy. So, who are you a hydra of?

Recombing ISOs 'n' shit.

Rez, Slainte = not scum together. This is legit playerlist confusion (inb4 'fakeable'). I'm not even thinking to check the first post to see what it says for them if I'm scum with them, and definitely not savvy enough to fake that negative connection.

(Maybe I'm just not very good)

[borkjerfkin]

"I'm going to vote you, but can I have your reads?"

Uhhh, errr, hmmm, no.

I can't guarantee you'd even have got them until d2, but I mean, your nerve is fucking astounding.

Dude.

We have 2 days to deadline.

The whole game is in a fucking holding pattern because we can't pursue 3/4 of the playerlist.

I voted you because you're dragging your feet on something that isn't that fucking complicated.
And now you're getting upset because I have the audacity to demand it after all this time?

What do you do in my spot?
I don't think Kaze is scum. He hasn't been terribly logical and I don't really think that has a huge correlation with scumminess in this case, as I've made pretty apparent. I'm much worse at reading you than I am him, and your interactions with most slots are nonexistent.

But I feel like I'm the only one playing half the time, and I'm the one that's got the fucking nerve.

[borkjerfkin]

I'm going to make like Kaze and use my Gladiator exceptionally stupidly because I am an idiot with no brains lurk. That's what you do if you want to live in this town.

How blatantly do I need to state that I don't expect either of you to flip scum on more than an outside shot?

[borkjerfkin]

I don't understand your half 'whatever happens I don't care' nihilism and half outrage that I would even consider voting you.

[borkjerfkin]

My early philosophy as soon as this gladiate dropped was going to be to attempt to work with both of you and try to come to an accord of events.

And neither of you had any fucking interest in it (possibly more Kaze's fault than yours). Every single other person's angle on the both of you is 'I am voting the lesser of two evils here'. This is a sentiment utterly ignored by both of you when it comes to each other.

It's frustrating.

[borkjerfkin]

you voted me because you think I'm scum. readvoting is useless. why am I scum?

I'd ask that you not tell me why I do the things that I do, thanks, especially when I've explicitly said otherwise.

[borkjerfkin]

This might be the most fucking frustrating game I've ever been a part of.

[borkjerfkin]

UNVOTE:

will this fucking help? Ugh.

[borkjerfkin]

Great. I really would appreciate if you can give me your thoughts on the rest of the playerlist.

[borkjerfkin]

I just wanted to lynch scum. Is that so bad?

No. I think though that the manner in which you did it made it more difficult for most people to care about the game, though, and if you do turn out to be wrong everyone's got the gladiate as a smokescreen for why they voted where they did.

No, I don't think you're stupid.

Anyway you continue to be town in your posts so I'm not terribly thrilled about the prospect of your self-sacrifice.

If this were a larger game I'd possibly advocate no lynch, but I think that's a bad idea in a 9p.

[borkjerfkin]

Sorry.

I just wanted to lynch scum. Is that so bad?

Seriously this is town. I wasn't even talking to Kaze and had no expectation he'd show up here but he knows he has culpability for at least most of this and that is why he responded.

p-edit: everyone unvotes and we let DL happen or what happens then? I'm more curious than actually recommending this route.

[borkjerfkin]

@ffery: Can you please prod TF, Rez, Slainte?

[borkjerfkin]

Question for me becomes how much information we gain/lose here, as I don't have either of them in my top three scum suspects. I'm leaning Kaze if we have to lynch someone just because execution aside the effect of the gladiate is massively anti-town. Other question for me too is whether either of them can step back and reassess. More reads from TSO would help me determine that, as if we're going to torpedo a lynch today I don't want to end up effectively revisiting the question tomorrow.

I am relatively here too. Except that at this juncture I am more sure that Kaze is town than I am that TSO is town. I agree that the gladiate was anti-town, but I don't think that hypothetical scum-Kaze knows it's going to be anti-town when he does it considering he's risen the chances for a scum lynch considerably with it, and he's been exuding town with his demeanor ever since.

TSO's emotional reactions are good; his content and lack of willingness to actually help me figure the game out isn't.

I don't really want to no-lynch.

[borkjerfkin]

VOTE: tso

[borkjerfkin]

town-TSO tunneled the fuck out of notscience in frozen before I was able to tear him off, as a counterpoint.

[borkjerfkin]

I don't think NL helps the gamestate in any likely way due to the fact that this game has 9 players.

with 10+ I'd probably NL and I'd sooner NL with any even number of players than odd.

[borkjerfkin]

What exactly does your role do?

[borkjerfkin]

write a message in the next day's opening post. it can't contain hidden messages or its ilk and I can't claim anything or identify myself.

And it's called 'Scribe?'

[borkjerfkin]

Town Scribe.

I'm not sure if this passes the smell test for me:

1) I don't see any use of it on the site before (and ffery I think is the type to really absorb site meta for roles)
2) You mentioned that you specifically had that role before elsewhere, which lends credence to the possibility that you're just making it up here.

I don't care if this sounds rolefishy:
Does anyone have a role that can't be found on the entire list of roles generally used here?

I want to see if there are other examples of this. This is me explicitly saying that my role is found here.

[borkjerfkin]

On my homesite.

Yes. It seems likely that

you

thought of this role for use in this game, not ffery.

[borkjerfkin]

Here's the last setup ffery modded here:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=39106

[borkjerfkin]

ffery didn't have to use the role in her previous set-up for it to exist here!

Didn't attempt to claim that.
Did attempt to use inductive reasoning to discern the likelihood this is real cause those are the weapons at my disposal.

p-edit: and I'm done being negative in my responses to people. I'm sorry you're upset, and if you're town and Kaze isn't then I'll be sorry I lynched you.

But I don't think that particular array of alignments is in play here.

[borkjerfkin]

ffery didn't have to use the role in her previous set-up for it to exist here!

And knowing this will tell me something about how off the beaten path she went with the setup.

[borkjerfkin]

so what array do you think is in play?

if it's t-t, then why are you voting me over Kaze?

It very well might be t-t.

I'm more sure about Kaze. I

have

provided reasons for this and you can ISO maybe the last half of me to see where that progression is.

[borkjerfkin]

Can you talk to me a little more about your (Insanity, penguin) reads? I want to know what differences you're getting from Insanity's level of committal vs penguins that you're reading them night and day apart.

[borkjerfkin]

I wish I had more townreads

[borkjerfkin]

bork, do whatever you want, you've been angling for me since the Gladiate.

No?

[borkjerfkin]

Two votes away from lynching scum!

See, this level of complacent certainty at this point in the game when I'm frantically trying to figure out what's the optimal play makes me really annoyed.

[borkjerfkin]

I wish I could be so fucking confident about it

[borkjerfkin]

For fuck's sake, bork, your top scumread is hard-buddying Kaze! And yet you're voting WITH HIM? You know he has no argument! I know he has no argument! F-16's stance on me should clear me by default! He has literally no reason to bus me so aggressively! He has every reason to defend Kaze so strongly, because if Kaze flips scum then F-16 is the natural chain lynch on d2! He doesn't have an option. This is the only play he can make!

You've been around the block enough to know that scumbuddy interactions are generally a lot more subtle than this.

Alignment is not a function of who can argue better and it's certainly not how I've primarily been reading Kaze.

And again: I don't want to make the argument that you're town because F-16 is scum when I don't actually know that F-16 is scum.

[borkjerfkin]

I am also doing my best to reset on F-16; I am at least recognizing that if I keep reading him with the preconception of 'nobody could honestly push obvtown-bork this game, at least not as hard as he pushed me', which I'll admit is in the back of my mind, that I'm going to come to the same foregone conclusion every time and that isn't really helpful. I really want to engage more with penguin on F-16 (And with F-16 on penguin) because I'm not seeing what they're seeing in the metagame regarding each other.

Wish I had more from Rez, Insanity, Slainte, TF in general. The fact that so many of these players are blending into the woodwork really does not bode well for any kind of townbloc.

(and I don't find it odd that Nacho came in and hard defended me because he's one of the few people on the site who knows my game well enough to pick me out like that)

[borkjerfkin]

@Everyone: We're currently at 3 TSO, 3 Kaze.

I will be around at deadline (but at work, so limited capacity)
I am doubting Rez is just going to magically come back all the sudden.
It's mid-week so a Nacho sighting might not be in the cards, but Cabd, if you're reading this, get in here.

[borkjerfkin]

hey Bork, look at F-16, you hate him. You know what, I hate him too and he is voting me! You should vote Kaze

I didn't like this either.

[borkjerfkin]

And the Scribe role thing has seeded just enough doubt regarding its veracity (I realize this is gut-ish) based on everything I know about ffery that I am pretty set in where I want to be.

Even if it's legitimately his role, I don't know what Insanity thinks we're accomplishing by proving that other than he is a role that cannot confirm anything but that exact fact.

[borkjerfkin]

fair enough, get well soon.

[borkjerfkin]

Bah!

[borkjerfkin]

now you've gone and done it

gg

this has been bork, playing the role of ineffective obvtown, as per usual.

[borkjerfkin]

I have pretty much zero emotional attachment to this game at this point so as far as I'm concerned it's all good

[borkjerfkin]

although if I ever see another gladiator in a game it'll be too soon