Micro 545 | Slavic Music Mafia | Endgame

[Postie]

Oh God what's happening

Get a Room: The_Jester and notscience

[Postie]

VOTE: wguerts

RVS?

[Postie]

I don't think claims have too much effect in the setup but whatever. I'm a town Bodyguard.

If you know claims are basically useless in this setup then why did you feel the need to claim?

VOTE: The_Jester

[Postie]

Okay.

Refraining from voting for the moment. There is a mechanic, random votes aren't really needed.

@wgeurts What do you think about that?

What was the purpose of this question?

[Postie]

Why?

[Postie]

For hints.

Could you elaborate?

[Postie]

Cool. Feeling better about my vote.

[Postie]

Wouldn't scum want to perpetuate discussion too? You know, to look town?

[Postie]

Hell, why not.

Get a Room: Espeonage/Postie

[Postie]

Get a Room: Espeonage/Bins

[Postie]

I'll be posting some stuff shortly, but I really need the post restriction that I got because of the other (not notscience) room to expire before I can give my full thoughts.

[Postie]

BTW, are we planning to stack rooms again?

[Postie]

And Espe originally started as a misunderstanding where I thought I posted something and then didn't but overall he's the person who's actually been talking to me a fair amount that I'm not getting townvibes off of?

Shouldn't that make him null? Why does no townvibes = scummy?

Someone mentioned that centering the game around the rooms could be a way to try and starve the game of information but his excuse is that it makes it easier on emotional readers and I didn't think to ask but then my big question is who in this game would that even apply to?

I can't speak for Espe, but from what I've seen of his meta, getting emotional reactions from people is a thing he's been eager to try out recently, so I don't think this is something he pulled out of nowhere to justify using the mechanic in a scummy way.

[Postie]

That's implying more experience with MS than an August join date - I don't mind if you are an alt and I don't want to descend into alt fishing wankiness, but I am wondering if that's something I should be considering?

Nah. I just spectated a game Espe was in where he said that's what he was doing.

[Postie]

Post 243 and 399 in that game, right?

Yup.

[Postie]

I don't think claims have too much effect in the setup but whatever. I'm a town Bodyguard.

If you know claims are basically useless in this setup then why did you feel the need to claim?

VOTE: The_Jester

So before I disappeared due to IRL reasons I made a short point about this point. We are all bodyguards and it's obvious the Jester knew this (who in turn reacted too seriously to my joke). Postie not realising that it's of no importance for our claims could be a possible scum-slip as they don't have the bodyguard role. It's a weak tell, but something we should store as possible evidence later.

Oh right yeah before I forget - I do know Jester's claim doesn't matter and that's why I was quizzing him about it; saying he knew claims didn't really matter and then claiming anyway felt like he was really self-conscious, as if he didn't want to look scummy for being hesitant to claim if you were actually serious. Could just be nervous newbtown but I thought it was worth drilling into.

[Postie]

Haven't had much time to read this thread until now, so I'm catching up. This mechanic also has me kinda lost. Is everyone just posting in PTs right now or something? Normally I'm used to going through RVS and getting reads that way, but it seems that discussion is mostly happening outside of this thread, and I haven't got a room, so yeah.

A lot of posting is happening in PTs, yeah. I think a lot of the town, myself included, needs to remember it's important to post information and reads we get in the main thread, not just in PTs. Otherwise, the town has less information to work with. And scum could use a PT to manipulate someone without anyone calling them out on it.

Actually, on that vein - how would everyone feel about briefly summarising what went on in their PT with notscience? I think it would be a good idea to have that kind of info out in the open, since it would allow us to better asses if there's anything fishy going on.

[Postie]

Click the wiki button under your avatar, then log in (you just use the username and password you have on the forum); after that you should be able to click a link on your currently non-existent page that says "Start the

Apricity

article".

[Postie]

Oh and

Get a Room: Apricity and Tere

Have fun guys.

[Postie]

There's some stuff I can't go into yet, but it felt like ns was misrepping Espe pretty hard in our PT and I think I was lied to at one point as well. I would be up for a notscience lynch today.

VOTE: notscience

Since the post restriction between ns and Jester has expired, I can at least go into some stuff on that now (didn't want notscience to be able to take his time with responding).

Nottie's reasons for townreading the Jester look really contrived to me. In our PT, ns defended the Jester pretty hard, but the only reason he could give for his read was that he didn't think Jester would be so uncooperative towards me if he was scum. That's not something I think is necessarily alignment indicative, but even it was, I told ns that Jester's meta shows him to be a lot more open and forthcoming with his thoughts (see Newbie 1623), which means there are definitely some problems with that point.
And yet notscience still adamantly townreads The_Jester. I would really expect a null read at best.

The whole thing feels a lot like white-knighting to me, especially with how, according to notscience, The_Jester is easy to mislynch.

[Postie]

We're not allowed to quote PTs, sorry, but if there's something you want me to go into more detail on I can do that.

[Postie]

What's white-knighting? And how was notscience misrepping Espe?

White-knighting is when scum defends a scummy-looking townie that town might easily mislynch, in order to look more town.
Not sure I can really go into all the details about how I think he was misrepped yet (will make more sense once I do), but I should be able to soon. Espe might end up bringing it up himself.

[Postie]

run it through "english to Shakespearean translator" (google that) so that you're not directelt quoting.

@Mod

- Is this allowed?

No, because the first one I found when I googled also lets you put the shakespearean in to get something like the original English back out. Paraphrasing is fine, though. --P

[Postie]

Alright, here is our discussion, paraphrased:

• ns asks me to explain my thoughts on Jester because he thinks Jester is just an awkward newbie.
  
  
• I say that I think that's a possibility, but I want there to be some pressure on Jester because there are some things that make me uneasy about him. Specifically, I mention I don't like how self-concious Jester looks in posts 42 and 47, how unwilling he was to explain his thoughts in post 62, and the fact he didn't feel the need to convince anyone he was town in post 64 and just kinda shrugged his shoulders and moved on.
  
  
• ns says he was talking to Jester and Jester told him he was often mislynched early, hence Jester's awkwardness, and he townreading me for similar reasons to Jester.
  
  
• ns corrects himself and says he talked to Jester before the game.
  [they didn't have a room at this point]
  
  
• I say I'll look at Jester's previous games and that I don't really care about the reason Jester townreads me; I just don't like how it feels like he's trying to dodge explaining his thoughts. I also ask how many people ns screened.
  
  
• ns says he screened most people and gives a list of who and how; says he didn't talk to herr and Apricity because they're new, but spoke to Jester because he could relate to him.
  
  
• I ask for more details on why he talked to Jester because paranoia.
  
  
• ns says he was mislynched a lot when he was new so he gets how much it sucks to be lynchbait as a new player.
  
  
• I say okie dokie, that makes sense, but I'm keeping my eye on Jester because he didn't act so cautious in Newbie 1623.
  
  
• ns says alrighty.

End of Jester Discussion

[Postie]

Alright, so, since the herrcomb thing has been brought up, I'll go into that now. This is where my main reasons for being really suspicious of notscience are.

So, ns comes out and says that he messed up and listed someone he already had a PT with when listing some people he still needed a PT with to Espe, and that Espe said he was going to bring it up. The way ns explained it felt tinged with AtE so I decided to start asking Espe about what happened in case ns was misrepping anything. There were some major differences between how both of them talked about the situation - in ns's version, ns seemed convinced Espe was out to get him with this, and in Espe's version, ns was okay with the whole thing and didn't seem to let it bother him much at first.
Now here's where things get even curiouser: Espe has told me that ns agreed that Espe should talk about it, so I ask ns if he would rather Espe

didn't

talk about it. ns says nope, he would prefer if Espe didn't mention it. Interesting.

Then ns tells me Espe told him he was considering using the herrcomb "slip" to get ns lynched to check if it was a real slip. I ask Espe if that's true and Espe tells me that never happened.

Basically, one of them is lying, and it's probably notscience.

Espeonage, notscience - obviously, I don't have access to your PT, so, do you have anything to say about this?

[Postie]

Oh yeah and the reason I couldn't say this earlier was because notscience wanted to wait until Espe brought the herrcomb thing up himself to see what he did with it. I figured I'd just let that happen to see if notscience tried to twist it against him or something, which might have helped me get a better read.

[Postie]

@Postie- if you have doubts about me, why don't you just ask for a room with me? Maybe I could clear the picture for you.

No need, I'm leaning town on you now.

The one thing that gives me pause about notty being scum is the aggressive pursuit of the mechanic - I can't see scum doing that if I am honest.

Why not? It allows scum to control the flow of information to an extent and manipulate people without being called out on it. I guess the only problem I can see is that notscience pursued the mechanic aggressively from the very beginning so you'd need to believe that notscience planned that kind of thing ahead from the start, but I read some of the IC notes notscience made in a newbie game when he was scum and I think it's something he would be capable of.

[Postie]

Then ns tells me Espe told him he was considering using the herrcomb "slip" to get ns lynched to check if it was a real slip. I ask Espe if that's true and Espe tells me that never happened.

If ns can't find a way to explain away this point, then shouldn't this be reason enough to be voting solely between Espe and ns today?

Unless you think there's a way lying in this situation would be town-motivated, Tere.

[Postie]

Alright, I have some issues with Tere's 201, but I don't want to do a huge long massive wall all in one go, so I'm gonna start tackling it in sections.

[Postie]

Herrcomb's 26 where he RVS but didn't comment at all on the room discussion despite claiming to have read the thread pinged a bit.

Why?

the quickhammer of notty and esperoom to 31 also looks natural.

What does this mean?

Light town lean on Jester.

Why?

Less impressed with postie's entry, the oh god what's happening pinged a little as something to say,

Why were you expecting more from the very first post I made? I barely skimmed the thread and just wanted to let people know I existed, basically. Which shouldn't be so unexpected.

the RVS? vote on wguerts at 46 is a hedgy vote I don't like, and the vote on Jester at 49 just looks like laying a vote down for the sake of having one down.

Were you expecting me to already have a scumread on page 2?

[Postie]

Actually, ignore that question about the townlean on Jester - you explained it; I just can't read. >_<

[Postie]

Jester's run to 58 looks carefree relaxed town.

Why not carefree relaxed scum, or scum who just doesn't know what to say?

Really like Jester's 96.

Why?

Herrcomb's 105 comes across as really awkward and scummy to me. Ditto 112, which I liked when I first read the thread but don't anywhere near as much on a reread.

Why and why?

143 feels a bit awkward though and I'm less of a fan of it.

Why?

[Postie]

I liked Espe's wall at 171

Why?

Herrcombs' still feels scummy at 186.

Why?

[Postie]

I feel like she's assigning undue value for strange things, especially all the emphasis on who is/isn't participating in room votes,

Agree 100% with herr on this. All the "Get a Room" vote analysis in 201 isn't all that helpful and feels like a really lazy way to try and generate more content.

[Postie]

Alright, this is the most important thing I'm going to ask you, Tere:

Please could you summarise your main reasons for voting herr, and tell me why herr is scummier and/or more deserving of a vote than notscience.

Sorry for the spam.

[Postie]

Alright, this is the most important thing I'm going to ask you, Tere:

Please could you summarise your main reasons for voting herr, and tell me why herr is scummier and/or more deserving of a vote than notscience.

Sorry for the spam.

So many scumhunting, much wow. I've already put forward my view on his ISO. If you were reading the thread.

My town lean on you just fell through the floor.

Argh, I completely missed your 22. My bad. I'm an idiot.

Could at least answer the second part of my question then? Why do you think the reasons you gave warrant a vote more than, you know, notscience outright lying?

[Postie]

Get a Room: Bins and Tere

get a room

It takes 3 votes to get a room.

Bins and Tere

(R-0): Tere, herrcombs, Postie

<— ROOM

Not Voting

(6): Bins, wgeurts, notscience, Apricity, The_Jester, Espeonage

[Postie]

*22 should be 224

[Postie]

Responding to your case on herr now, because I don't like a lot of it.

26 is terrible. There's been room discussion and you hop in, say nothing, put waffle down to say oh I can't keep up or I've read but actually I've hadn't or whatever the first sentence is (looks like scum looking for something to say to me) and lay a RVS vote down. Really? Really?

Ditto what I said about my own first post. First posts are often just used for players to make their presence known, not to contribute anything useful. This is a lot less scummy than you're making it out to be, if at all.

105 is a pile of waffle of "oh I don't really like the idea of hoods" which doesn't strike town to me,

herrcombs' first PEdit seems to imply that he's onboard with how we were using the hoods.

plus some not reading and not keeping up excuses.

Why is this scummy?

The follow up just looks like more excuses because you realised 105 was weak.

So I know you hate it when I ask "why?", but I don't understand how you came to this conclusion at all. Nothing about 107 reads disingenuous to me.

186comes across as incredibly static, more reportage and commentary than desirous of game solving.

While I guess that post could be seen as a little fence-sitty, he gives both some analysis and attempts to engage with other players, so I feel like you're exaggerating a bit here.

208 is pure defensiveness. Ditto 219

Why do you think his defensiveness scummy? You just made a case on him and put down a vote - how else is he supposed to react?

[Postie]

Tip on the care and feeding of Teres - shotgunning whys at me when the answer is in my ISO makes me very grumpy. Please try not to do this Mostly it will just make me want to tell you to read the appropriate posts and come to your own conclusions.

Yeah, sorry about that; I may have gone a bit overboard. With the exception of some of your points on herr though, I actually can't find the answers to most of my questions in your ISO. That's a big problem I'm having with your 201 - you're not backing up a lot of the things you're calling towny or scummy with reasons, which makes those points pretty useless.

I am not averse to a notty lynch based on what you and Espe have said about your respective hoods. But I want to see what happens when he comes back to the thread first. I did have a strong town lean in the first couple of pages. We have 8 days. No rush.

Fair enough.

[Postie]

I'm not completely sold on herr being town, I just have a slight townlean. It's more that I don't like most of your reasoning and think some of it feels contrived.

[Postie]

Did you read 256?

[Postie]

Yawn.
@Postie, what do you think of Apricity?

I haven't seen enough from Apricity to make my mind up about her, so she's firmly null. I'd put more energy into getting a decent read if I wasn't distracted by Tere and ns at the moment; that seems to have died down a little now though, so...

Get a Room: Postie and Apricity

[Postie]

I'm going to chitchat with bins some more until my head clears up.

I'd like you to respond to the issue of you apparently lying immediately please. If you're scum, stalling would give you more time to plan how to weasel yourself out of your current predicament, so I hope you understand why I need answers ASAP.

[Postie]

You know, I've had this little theory since near the start of the game that notscience was trying to win me and Bins and possibly other players over so he could then manipulate us, but I never really had much evidence to support that line of thinking except that Bins voted for Espe in post 78, and so ns clearly must have won Bins' trust enough that she was convinced by all that bullshit ns was pushing on Espe (ns told me he told Bins about his suspicions of Espe).

I've just remembered something though.

When I talked to ns in our PT I asked him why he felt I could be trusted with all the information he was sharing with me, and he said it was because a big part of his gameplay involves working with townreads and so he's very forthcoming with them.
I haven't heard a word from nottie since my scumread on him.
He's still talking to Bins though, apparently.
Which makes me think he just gave up talking to me because there's no longer a way to manipulate me into voting for Espe or helping him out of the current mess he's in by feeding me more bullshit so I'll take his side.

So what's going on, notscience? Am I no longer a townread?

[Postie]

I'm going to catch up in the morning, see you guys then!

Welcome!

[Postie]

Postie is extremely superficial and is overemphasizing her whys and questions but not really pushing for anything or taking strong stances.

She's trying too hard to look like a good townie while not really being a good townie.

I'm not pushing for anything? I thought I was pretty upfront about my notscience scumread and the fact I want him lynched ASAP unless he's miraculously able to convincingly explain why one of him or Espe is lying.

If it helps, RC, here are my reads:

Espeonage

The_Jester

herrcombs

Apricity

Tere

Bins

notscience

Feel free to ask if anything needs explaining.

[Postie]

Also, notscience currently only has two votes on him despite basically being scum by default unless he explains himself properly. Can we get some more people on this wagon? Preferably L-1 so there's enough pressure on him to force him to say something so that:
a) we don't help scum by stalling the game, and
b) he doesn't have time to think up and elaborate story or plan if he's scum

[Postie]

@Postie, have you played mafia elsewhere apart from MS? If so, where? How many games have you played?

I've played a couple of FtF games, and a single casual game another forum (the kind where everyone votes to No Lynch on day 1), but nothing like this.

[Postie]

Espeonage

The_Jester

herrcombs

Apricity

Tere

Bins

notscience

Actually, Tere being this concerned about my meta is pretty town. Her name can move back up to yellow (null).

[Postie]

Which games do you mean by "those games"? I've only ever played as mafia in FtF Mafia, but that was a couple of years ago.

[Postie]

Which games do you mean by "those games"? I've only ever played as mafia in FtF Mafia, but that was a couple of years ago.

I think it's fairly clear that I am asking about all of your previous games.

Sorry, I wasn't sure if you meant games on this site too, since you just asked about games elsewhere. But yeah, by "I've only ever played as mafia in FtF Mafia" I meant that FtF mafia is

the only place

where I have ever played as mafia, meaning I have never been mafia on this site or any other.

I do have a completed third party game on this site though if that would help you, but I had a pretty awkward role and did a horrible job at it, so it probably wouldn't be the best idea to assume I'd also play that badly if I were mafia.

[Postie]

@Postie, yeah, shoot us the third party game. It might help, it might not, but given I'm having problems sorting you, it won't harm.

Alright: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=63587

If you want any recent town games, just ask, or feel free to dig around in my post history.

[Postie]

You even gave yourself an out on that scumread. Yikes.

All I'm saying is that notscience isn't confscum; I seriously doubt he stands any chance of convincing me he's town at this point.

It's hard to know what deserves to be called a strong stance, but it's certainly not when you say "I want him lynched ASAP unless", and I'm further utterly unconvinced by the NS wagon since it seems much more policy than intended to hit scum.

One of Espe or notscience

is lying

. Call it a policy lynch if you like, but I see no town motivation in outright misrepping the situation that was described to such a ridiculous extent.

[Postie]

So, ns comes out and says that he messed up and listed someone he already had a PT with when listing some people he still needed a PT with to Espe, and that Espe said he was going to bring it up. The way ns explained it felt tinged with AtE so I decided to start asking Espe about what happened in case ns was misrepping anything. There were some major differences between how both of them talked about the situation - in ns's version, ns seemed convinced Espe was out to get him with this, and in Espe's version, ns was okay with the whole thing and didn't seem to let it bother him much at first.
Now here's where things get even curiouser: Espe has told me that ns agreed that Espe should talk about it, so I ask ns if he would rather Espe

didn't

talk about it. ns says nope, he would prefer if Espe didn't mention it. Interesting.

Then ns tells me Espe told him he was considering using the herrcomb "slip" to get ns lynched to check if it was a real slip. I ask Espe if that's true and Espe tells me that never happened.

I thought I made it pretty clear.

I'll ask you the same question I asked Tere earlier:

Then ns tells me Espe told him he was considering using the herrcomb "slip" to get ns lynched to check if it was a real slip. I ask Espe if that's true and Espe tells me that never happened.

If ns can't find a way to explain away this point, then shouldn't this be reason enough to be voting solely between Espe and ns today?

[Postie]

Honestly, notscience should have addressed this whole thing waaaay back and his disappearance feels like scum stalling in the hopes that we'll get confused in the current chaos and do something stupid.

[Postie]

You seriously doubt? All I'm saying? "See no" town motivation?

What all these have in common is that they're defensive and attempting to self justify.

To address this point, btw - I literally just hate talking in absolutes when I don't know something for definite. I use phrases like this all the time and can probably find you some from past games if you like.

[Postie]

I've been stuck at home in bed for over a week with migaines that don't allow me to have deep thinking and today is the first day in that time where I am 100% lucid and able to put coherent thoughts down.

Aw man, that sucks.
Hopefully you'll be better soon. <3

[Postie]

AtE- a) isn't a scumtell, b) is something I just do as being who I am, I'm an emotional player.

Fair enough. I didn't think it scummy per se; it just made me really uneasy. I'm finding it hard to put into words why, but I'll admit that on a subconcious level it could have had something to do with the fact Espe was my top townread.

Second- You asked if I would rather he didn't, and I said "not really." How is that a "nope" in any sense of the word? I'm trying to think through english but I'm almost positive that's not a no in the slightest.

I wasn't sure if saying that was allowed because of the "no quoting PTs" thing, so I paraphrased. Sorry if that changed the original meaning; that wasn't my intention.

And bullshit, he definitely without a doubt said he could push my lynch with that slip. I did miss where he said he wouldn't push it without further reads before, but he DID say that he would push my lynch with it so, no.

Alright, well, what I asked him was whether he said to you that he was

considering

using the supposed slip to get you lynched, so I suppose one of you isn't

technically

lying because: saying he could use it to get you lynched =/= saying he was considering using it to get you lynched.

Give me a bit to think this situation through. I still want one of you dead by the end of today unless whatever RC was talking about earlier confirms herr as scum.

[Postie]

I'm not sure what your referring to, RC. Could you clarify?

[Postie]

I know. That's why the word "unless" is in that sentence.

???

[Postie]

Please don't hammer or even L-1 NS.

VOTE: Herrcombs

I like chocolate cake.

More will come from me when I get a respones from admin.

A logical inference from these posts is that you have some important information that suggests herr is scum but you need the admin to get back to you about something to know whether or not your line of thinking is valid.

[Postie]

That doesn't justify your "confirmed scum" comment.

You would have no reason to use that phrase in particular.

I used that phrase because of how confident I am that one of Espeonage or notscience is scum (more on that soon), and hence I wouldn't want anyone else lynched unless they were confirmed scum.

[Postie]

Your theory is that me and herr are buddies and you caught him out in a way that confirms him or would confirm him as scum and he told me about it through mafia daytalk, right?

Well, don't answer that because post restriction, but that's what I'm guessing you're suggesting here.

[Postie]

@notscience

You've been buddying postie,

What did you mean by this? Were you referring to him starting a "masonry" with me and essentially buddying me by being unduly confident in me being town?
Because there wasn't a whole lot of information to go off when he requested the PT so that would be a valid point and something I need to consider.

I'm also re-reading our PT now and the way Espe responded to the question I asked about whether he was considering trying to get ns lynched with the herr thing is actually a little weird in places.
He denied it in a very casual and laid back way, which is not the reaction I'd expect from a townie who's just been told that someone lied about something they said.
Additionally, he followed that up with something along the lines of "I only said this other thing and I didn't say this other other thing" and then later "and I also didn't say this other other other thing", which does read a bit like he was trying to dance around explaining the situation properly and just trying not to

technically

lie. Kind-of like if you were to ask a person if they'd killed your friend Sally and they replied, "No, I wasn't the one who killed them." because actually they hired a hitman.

UNVOTE:

Need to hear from Espe again.

[Postie]

Get a Room: RadiantCowbells and Postie

[Postie]

Get a Room: RadiantCowbells and Espeonage

get a room

It takes 3 votes to get a room.

Espeonage and RadiantCowbells

(R-0): RadiantCowbells, Tere, Postie

<— ROOM

Bins and herrcombs

(R-2): herrcombs

Not Voting

(5): Bins, notscience, Espeonage, The_Jester, Apricity

[Postie]

VOTE: Herr

Please explain.

[Postie]

Get a Room: Postie and herrcombs

Please and thank you!

[Postie]

Additionally, he followed that up with something along the lines of "I only said this other thing and I didn't say this other other thing" and then later "and I also didn't say this other other other thing", which does read a bit like he was trying to dance around explaining the situation properly and just trying not to

technically

lie. Kind-of like if you were to ask a person if they'd killed your friend Sally and they replied, "No, I wasn't the one who killed them." because actually they hired a hitman.

Posting a paraphrased version of this now so that I can post it in a PT without having to re-paraphrase if I want to post it here. This is the conversation I had with Espe in regard to the herr "slip". Stealing RC's method of paraphrasing for this (no translator was used).

He [notscience] was sort of expressing amusement regarding the situation and conceeded that I ought to speak of it when I am able.

Canst thou develop on these things? Did it appear that he was averse to conceeding that thou ought to speak of it when you are able or didst he advocate for it?

Naw, he conceeded that I wouldst be obliged to mention this thing, and declared he presumed I wouldst.

However, my main concern was with the shift in frequency henceforth. He behaved somewhat icily, said to attempt my most excellent stab because he is very difficult to get hanged and things of that sort, and additionally the assault on me out of nothingness.

And aye, I wouldst not assert that it be slip if not for some other thing to back this idea.

O, alright.

Didst thou declare that thou were contemplating making use of it in order to get him hanged?

Naw, only proclaimed that I wouldst be sharing this knowledge with others and not pressing it further without me having some other thing regarding the issue. Also things concerning both. Just pressing one of them due to this is foolish.

That is indeed strange. At the time notscience revealed the state of affairs to me, he told me that thou said to him that thou may possiblity want to make use of this to get him hanged in order to know whether it be a true slip.

Is there something I have missed or dost a person among you lie to me?

I am unsure if I am allowed to make use of the precise words, but I stated I would bring it up but wouldst not press it except in circumstances where I had other things to back this idea.

This does break your post restriction with RC a little bit, yeah. You can talk about each other in (expired on 2015-11-09 18:15:00). --P

[Postie]

Oh shoot I may have broken my post restriction there. Whoops.

Mistakes happen; that's why you get a few chances. --P

[Postie]

VOTE: herrcombs

L-1

I would be fine with lynching Espe or notscience too though.

[Postie]

If a wagon forms on Espe I would 100% prefer it to the current one.

[Postie]

@Apricity

- Could I get some reads from you?

[Postie]

@Postie, when did you read on Espe change? Can you walk me through that? Why are you okay with lynching him now?

My read on Espe changed when I read ns' catch-up wall and realised I was getting tunnely and started doubting everything. There were some things I then started seeing wrong with Espe's posts, which are outlined in post 380.

I went into more detail on some of it with RC in our PT, so I'll post about that now here too: take a look at the conversation I had with Espe that I posted in post 407.
What bugs me is that I feel there's a really unnatural emphasis on exactly what Espe

didn't

say, as opposed to giving full details of what actually happened; look at where I ask him if one of him or notscience is lying to me as well - he completely dodges the question. It feels like he was content for me to just carry on believing ns was lying to me without confirming or denying anything so he couldn't be caught out, and the fact he never addressed the issue of ns apparently lying makes me more inclined to believe that too.
Saying in his recent posts that ns' catch-up makes sense with what he remembers also fits with scum trying to make the whole thing look like a big misunderstanding to get out of being lynched for potentially lying or at least strongly misrepping if ns flips town (if it really was just a misunderstanding, there's no freaking way he would have handled it the way he did rather than explaining the situation to me properly).

I know we're close to deadline but I'd like to see an Espe wagon and lynch if possible please. I'll be on later as well though so I'm willing to change my vote to Apricity if this doesn't take off.

VOTE: Espeonage

[Postie]

Also, you described your scum game as awkward in the one you played. Why do you think that is?

Third party, not scum, and I think it was a because it was my first time playing anything other than VT, and the fact I had a really awkward win con, so the role threw me because I had no idea how to play it properly.

Yeah I'm coming to that conclusion too I think.

@Postie I just reread 342 and see you do have town games on site, wanna shoot some at us?

Sure.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=63045
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=63177
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=63464

That's all of them, I think, in chronological order.

[Postie]

How is it policy if he's been acting really scummy?

[Postie]

Get a Room: Postie and Tere

Was meaning to do this anyway.

get a room

It takes 3 votes to get a room.

Postie and Tere

(R-2): Espeonage, Tere, Postie

<— ROOM

Not Voting

(6): notscience, The_Jester, Apricity, herrcombs, RadiantCowbells, Bins

[Postie]

Apricity wouldn't be a horrible lynch.

VOTE: Apricity

[Postie]

@Mod

- When someone dies, can they continue using their PTs or do they stop posting everywhere?

When someone dies, they may not post anywhere but the dead thread / mod pt (spoilered version of the dead thread.) Players are considered alive until I have flipped them (announced that they are dead and said what faction they belonged to.) --P

[Postie]

Cool. Any closing thoughts from anyone?

[Postie]

Well, since Espe's out of the picture now, I'm 100% for a notscience lynch.

VOTE: notscience

[Postie]

Why would you want to kill the most helpful town player for that though? notscience stood a good chance of being lynched anyway, so it doesn't seem like the reward really outweighs the cost.

[Postie]

Oh, right, I getcha. That was pretty much the exact situation I ended up in with herrcombs and RC.

[Postie]

People should go read the first section of notty's 363 (including the post by Postie he's replying to) and see what they make of it, I think.

I don't understand what I'm supposed to be trying to understand.

[Postie]

So judging from that nightkill, either Jester is scum or herrcombs was targeted on purpose, perhaps to frame Jester? Although I don't think anyone knew that Jester was the only one who didn't know herr was bodyguarding RC, so that seems unlikely. Plus why bother when you could just let herr get speedlynched; I'm not seeing what having Jester lynched instead would really accomplish.

Yeah, I'm completely fine with a Jester lynch.

[Postie]

Hah. Can't argue with your logic RC. I'm out of the loop and I don't think I'll be able to solve this game.
I volunteer as a tribute then. I don't wanna crack my head in LyLo anyway.

VOTE: Jester

Also, I'm not sure I buy that town would just give up like this. Feels like deliberate WIFOM.

[Postie]

GG.

I'm fine with all my PTs being released, Ploti.

[Postie]

Yeah, the rooms thing could be confusing sometimes, but it was also really fun. Must have been awkward and time-consuming to mod though.

[Postie]

By the way, RC:
1) Since it came up in a couple rooms, what was the "promise me you're not scum" thing about?
2) Why did you lie to Bins about Jester bodyguarding me, and lie to me about Bins bodyguarding me? Was it in case I was scum and killed Bins to make it look like I was targeted?

These PTs are so fun to read.

Actually, if you can understand why I voted people, I'm probably scum.

lol. Sounds about right.

[Postie]

I still have a lot of songs left if people want to give it another go with the updated get a room mechanic. I was going to do a mini next but the setup is still very much a rough draft and i'm not sure when I'll finish it, so that can wait.

/pre-in if this happens <3

[Postie]

NS and my pt is probably an important read.

This should be good.

[Postie]

From the dead thread:

If anything, postie caught my scumslip in the PT that I had to cover like hell.

The "I was talking to Jester" thing was an actual slip!? I thought that was really unlikely because Espe said in our PT that you used the word "pregame" with him before you'd talked about Jester with me and... gah! Maybe I should have been more suspicious that he was the only one you said you "screened" via PM. >_<

[Postie]

Ploti, I think there is a typo in the advertisement for the game that you have in your sig.

And yeah, Jester, you did pretty well. Your buss on notscience was especially well executed.