So since anyone voting would be handing out an early hammer, I'm gonna agree that random votes should not be a thing.
However.
Random
I'm sorry, i thought the tongue emoticon I posted indicated my sarcasm.lovelygiant wrote:And right before you set up the dichotomy, you thank Radiant for enlightening you. How can you claim to be enlightened about the setup and then immediately avoid applying what you've learned to instead make Radiant look suspicious?
In post 12, Chenoan wrote:If it's that simple then this game is a lot more town slanted than I thought at first. Thanks for enlightening me RC
In post 11, RadiantCowbells wrote:What's he gonna do, quickhammer you?
Then he'll be confirmed scum and we'll either vengekill him and confirm him as scum or speedlynch him tomorrow.
I don't understand your fears here.
In post 30, lovelygiant wrote:And if I'm being played, RC deserves an award for screaming town so clearly.
You put someone at l-1 and then left it there without knowing the meta of the other player in our group to know how they would react once in thread. That player came in and almost instantly essentially claimed intent to hammer. Your unvote gains you some town cred, but not enough in that you aren't even scumreading lovelygiant at all for wanting to hammer and then jumping on this arbitrary wagon. Instead of scumreading at all, you're buddying them. Giant could be scum, but I'm still banking on you.In post 35, RadiantCowbells wrote:
what the fuck are you even saying here.
I did not invite him to hammer, I said that it would be idiotic of him to hammer if he were scum because he'd get vengekilled for it.
I unvoted so he couldn't hammer when he expressed interest in it.
I have extreme difficulty believing this fixation on me comes from a town point of view when LG's last page pinged the shit out of me.
Why should I be scumreading you? I know you and RC can't possibly be partners because the two goons are split in the two groups. So unless my read on RC is wrong, you have to be town by PoE. And I'm just getting more and more positive about my RC read.In post 36, lovelygiant wrote:Yeah, wait, shouldn't you be scumreading me if anyone, Chenoan?
And trying to stop the "I'm civ and will vengekill you" tag line isn't selling your case.
Nice buddying you got going on over there.
Why would I convince you that I'm town? I think you're maf, so it's LG I need to convince. Plus, I know from experience that I almost always get lynched once I'm wagon'd because I somehow always read as scummy when I'm town. I guess I'm over eager or something.In post 50, RadiantCowbells wrote:I just get nasty feelings about the way that he was trying to ward me off hammering with an appeal to vengekilling me instead of trying to convince me he was town or something.
I didn't disappear. It's been less than a few hours and the day phase has a deadline of two weeks.In post 52, lovelygiant wrote:As is the traditional disappearance instead of giving a real defense when the heat gets to be too much.
Although I have to get used to players not being on 24/7 like at my old forum. Day phases were ALWAYS 36 hours. So we made an effort to be present. I guess it's fair to give him time.
In post 39, lovelygiant wrote:I'd love input from the other group of three to make sure I'm not tunneling.
See this is the first solid towny thing I've seen from either of you. I tend to trust my gut. And you passing the hammer felt way more like nubtown than like intentional scum lynching. I still don't know you're general meta, though, so my gut read on that could be very wrong. BUT, you're assuming a lot about how I theoretically should be perceiving things. Like you're trying to anticipate town reactions to your posts. Only reason to do that is if you're scum. Hm...In post 55, lovelygiant wrote:You managed to not acknowledge that I've handed RC the hammer. He has chosen not to use it, for very town-driven reasons. Certainly that alone should make you reconsider your scumread on him?
Me passing the hammer opportunity to RC should actually be seen as a scummy tactic to shirk blame for lynching you, if you really are town. That's whatIwould think, in your shoes.
I know that feel. Me not voting you was scummy, but now you've said that if I decide to vote you it's scummy. Lose-lose situations are fun, right?In post 126, lovelygiant wrote:I'll rephrase. So far you've called me out for both fence-sitting (holding off on deciding somebody is scum or not) and then deciding that person is scum. you put me in a lose-lose situation. what do you want?
In post 153, lovelygiant wrote:I'm sorry for your illness.
I don't know if "doubled in size" is a big deal at 7 pages, though.
Well of course you haven't yet, but it still reads that way. Looking back it seems like I'm not the only one who thought so.In post 159, xRECKONERx wrote:
Not the case. I never once have tried to defend a lynch on me by "LOL I AM JUST BAD AT D1", and the fearmongering here based on potential futures instead of anything concrete is pretty terrible.
It felt very weird. And potentially buddying? But I honestly couldn't tell. It would have been nice if you'd put some comment about how "oh, this is late, but..." or something??? It was just weird okay?I made a mental note to comment on the Radiohead thing because I love Radiohead, got distracted by actual content stuff and things happening, forgot about it, mentioned it after the fact. Why is that weird? Why is that some grand conspiracy?
Referencing you own meta as a defense is self-metaing in my opinion.Second off, I wasn't self-metaing. I was bringing up a reasonable defense of my actions regarding the Day 1 comment. That's not self-meta. Self-meta would be saying, "I am town because I do X" or something of that nature. This was simply me providing rational, empirical evidence to clear up the confusion around my "I'm bad @ D1" post.
All scum has to do is get two mislynches, and seem JUST towny enough to not get NK'd, and they win. So sure lynches seem like the obvious mafia strategy to me?As I said, I reread. Why are you starting from a place where you assume ill intent rather than earnest enlightenment? Why does itfeel likeI'm trying to earn town points by defending you if you're town, rather thanfeel likeI reread the first few pages and saw something I hadn't seen before?
And betting on "sure lynches" as scum makes no sense in this setup, given nobody is playing a long game.
Thanks for that. But no acknowledgment about the OMGUS?Reckoner's vote feels a little OMGUS'y, but he gives reasons for it... hmm... Is there a way to view multiple player's iso's at once? It's be interesting to just read group two's posts in iso.
Yes, indeed, you can click the "+" icon near the bottom of the page to do that.
In post 11, RadiantCowbells wrote:What's he gonna do, quickhammer you?
Then he'll be confirmed scum and we'll either vengekill him and confirm him as scum or speedlynch him tomorrow.
I don't understand your fears here.
Okay so pointing out these two posts again. This unvote makes NO sense if RC is town and actually believes what they said in 11. If LG quickhammered, then we'd have found the scum already according to their logic. In fact, according to post 11's logic, RC should have scumread LG for even wanting to hammer. But he didn't. Maybe because he thought LG would be easy to manipulate? Throw in a little of 13 for added logical inconsistency here, too..
I never responded to this well. I'm dumb. But now that there's more content I feel even more like RC was eager for a lynch, and I was just the easy target at first. Or they might have been scumbaiting? But if they were scumbaiting then why did RC not follow through on their logic and scumread LG at all?In post 23, RadiantCowbells wrote:How is anything that I've done remotely 'trying to incite an early lynch'?
Again this feels so eager for a lynch. Literally one page after he unvoted, and less than ten minutes after LG voted, there's this subtle pseudo-intent to hammer. When I first read it I felt like I was being asked "any last words?"
So I didn't catch it at the time because I was being overly defensive, but this is a serious misrep. I never said I would vengekill RC. In 31, I said I wanted them to stay active after I died so I could get good reads on them. Clearly indicating that although I was leaning scum on RC, that I wasn't sure.In post 50, RadiantCowbells wrote:I just get nasty feelings about the way that he was trying to ward me off hammering with an appeal to vengekilling me instead of trying to convince me he was town or something.
tbh I did feel a bit ridiculous when I realized I was taking an internet forum game so personally. Which is why I decided not to post until after work. And then I got sick. Now with distance from my initial emotions I still agree with my logic, but I should have composed myself more rather than firing posts of from the hip like I did.In post 74, RadiantCowbells wrote:Town can be plenty confident of scum.
Chenoan's opening was ridiculous, his stances are ridiculous, if I were in his shoes I'd feel the same way.
Group 2 needs to start talking more.
Can you explain this more? Are you saying that I intended to get lynched? Or? I'm confused by this and can't really react to it until I understand?In post 176, RadiantCowbells wrote:Either way, I'm fairly sure Reck's scum at this point but I think it's more likely that LG is the scum and that the Chen associatives are a deliberate false trail because he intended to be lynched. It goes with LG's flip floppiness over townreading me; he may be acting like this because he knows he has to 1v1 me sooner or later but doesn't want to attract my attention before that.
Lol what?In post 206, RadiantCowbells wrote:You know when you phrase it like that this game sounds ridiculously townsided.
In post 12, Chenoan wrote:If it's that simple then this game is a lot more town slanted than I thought at first. Thanks for enlightening me RC
So upon rereading this irks me a lot. I couldn't figure out why to begin with, but just wait.In post 15, lovelygiant wrote:
Votes are not nearly as precious a resource as early posts would have you believe. Hammering would reveal way too much for mafia, and if a civ hammers this early, they've more than earned the vengekill they'll eat.
So far I'm liking Radiant for mirroring similar thoughts.
Out with a solid townread like basically one page into the game? How confident of you. Also, with keeping in mind that my original buddying read that RC was buddying LG could be reversed, this is the second post in a long line of buddying.In post 27, lovelygiant wrote:I was hoping you'd catch that. That right there is why I'm townreading you already. Scum would have let it be and scores an easy lynch.
So now it's my turn.
RC hasn't been screaming town at all. The only reason I can see to say this is buddying. LG is either dumbtown or playing some SERIOUS WiFoM games.In post 30, lovelygiant wrote:Don't let my first game be this easy, really.
And if I'm being played, RC deserves an award for screaming town so clearly.
In post 48, lovelygiant wrote:Saying you are town isn't a scumtell, obviously.
Again, I still find it interesting that he pointed out this feature just so we could see how active he's been. But it's a lot of short posts and most of them don't add much to the conversation.In post 67, lovelygiant wrote:Is there a "Who's Posted?" function that shows post distribution in a thread amongst players? My old forum had one and I find it pretty useful later in the game to analyze overall activity and to go from ISO to ISO with ease.
Quoting this to link to...In post 97, lovelygiant wrote:I'm still insistent on the fact that Chen, if town, should have been scumreading me after I traded hammers with RC, but instead he stayed on RC for fear of being inconsistent. He just breathes scum in town's clothing.
Less than 4 posts apart LG sets up an impossible situation. He seems to have decided that I'm gonna get lynched today, and wants to have every argument available to him. If i vote RC, that's scummy because I'm just doing it to appear consistent. If I vote LG, that's scummy because I'm just doing it because LG won't lynch RC and I'm going the path of least resistance? K.In post 101, lovelygiant wrote:From a strategic standpoint, if Chen is mafia, the smartest thing to do now would be to try and push for me. He can't vote RC and conceivably succeed because that would require me also voting RC to hammer, which ain't happening. His only move left would be to lynch me as attempt to convince RC to switch with him, which is more realistic. That's the biggest problem with this game's structure (that I've found anyway.) Unless I'm missing something.
Hanging a lantern on the buddying. It's not buddying if he posts that it's buddying, right?In post 110, lovelygiant wrote:it is noteworthy that your first post in the thread was used to discredit RC and I after we started voicing suspicion on Chen, yet you managed to not mention Chen at all, possibly to avoid being too forward in your defense.
RC, I know this is going to seem like more buddying, but I'd like your insight on this.
So he has a solid townread on RC for reasons I still don't fully agree with, and I'm just getting lynched by PoE? Yea okay. Obviously if you have a legitimate townread on the only remaining townie in your group the 3rd person must be scum. But in this case, I'm starting to think my gut reaction in the game was very, very wrong.In post 128, lovelygiant wrote:also, I'm like really, really positive on my townread of RC (so far). By PoE I have no choice but to suspect Chen. So regardless of your disagreement with my suspicion of him, I kind of have to lynch him.
What are these "other things" RC has done to look towny? You've mentioned that they exist, but not what they are. So what are they?In post 164, lovelygiant wrote:I feel like my reads on people in relation to them townreading me is more coincidental than causal. I have been doing my best to scum hunt, whether or not I've been successful at it.
It wasn't specific points in Chen's post, but more the way he wasn't afraid to garner more attention and create more discussion around him by calling out pretty much everyone, the opposite of what a scum would typically want in that situation, right? Forgive me if I'm wrong.
I found you very civ for your withdrawn vote in fear of my hammer, amongst other things. Our early interactions with Chen revealed a lot, I thought, but the more I look at them, the more I can see them with both town and mafia motives, myself included. That's what the doubt and Unvote/revote nonsense was about.
I find myself confusing Reck's and Ranger's reads a lot. I'm gonna reexamine the thread in its entirety while it is still short.
Literally what.In post 177, lovelygiant wrote:Oh, dear. I wish you weren't scumreading me, but I don't know how to stop you.
So this is getting me even more convinced that LG is scum, and is either bussing Reck or trying to get Reck mislynched. I can't tell on the last part though. My reads on Reck and Ranger are hovering dangerously near each other.LG's 177 continued wrote:My flip-floppiness was genuine because, whilst second guessing my scum read on Chen, it left only you to consider. The reason I went BACK to town-reading you was the overall assessment that, no matter how my brain spun it, you were just unarguably cleaner and I was making a mistake.
I do strongly agree with your reads on Reck for my previously explained reasons. I think you're reading his relation to Chen and mebackwardsthough. It seems almost transparent to me, go and look at those posts of his, in context. He didn't start dissecting Chen until AFTER ranger mentioned the likelihood of them being a team, and after he had felt he's done his due diligence for the sake of distance, he acted as if he suddenly found me way more guilty. It's bogus as all hell. I guess the transparency comes from knowing my alignment, though. And that I can't prove. Working on it.
Linking this back to...In post 236, lovelygiant wrote:You're fairly certain TIMU is town. Could you clarify why? Is it in spite of his many slip-ups?Becauseof them? Or nothing to do with that altogether? Mostly curious, as I don't think anyone has commented on them in relation to their read of TIMU. So I'm struggling to be sure whether they're a scummy thing or possibly a towny thing. Still leaning in scum, but would like insight.
Literally what? You bump TIMU to town and then some 30 posts later question why someone else is townreading him? What's the logic there? Also that's not even addressing how you go from "bumping TIMU to town" to "Still leaning scum" on him...
Nothing you said at that point seemed to indicate any scumread on LG. Did I miss something?In post 230, RadiantCowbells wrote:
The fuck?
I did scumread LG for wanting to hammer.
I just scumread your reaction a lot more because your fixation on me didn't make much sense.
I thought you had a solid townread on Ranger. Where'd it go?No, I'm saying that you might be town and that Reck wanted to make false associatives.
I'm fairly sure that TIMU is town. I'm not quite sure between Reck and Ranger.
If you could just post them for sake of clarity? That way no one can go back and be like "But no! RC's reads were x!"I needed help sorting people /shrug
I think my stances are fairly clear anyway? If there's anything in particular you're interested in then ask me.
I still really don't understand your scumread on me.
In post 244, lovelygiant wrote:Unlikely to change at this point. I'm set.
In post 255, lovelygiant wrote:Suddenly TIMU's looking towny in comparison. Jeez.
lovelygiant wrote:Who's slipping where
In post 265, This is my username wrote:I thought just a few pages ago you thought the optimal play was for scum!Chen to lynch you. Interesting you flip that opinion as soon as you're under pressure.
In post 288, RadiantCowbells wrote:I'm not hammering until I see your group's hammer.
I'm just gonna leave that there. Ranger, if you're reading along, you misread RC yet again.In post 192, RadiantCowbells wrote:But yeah, I don't like how quick Ranger is to write me off as town after she did the same in our last game and I was scum.
I'd had similar feelings, but now I realized that since we're already in the game should it be a good thing that it's town-sided - assuming you're town of course? This doesn't sound like commenting on a good thing.In post 206, RadiantCowbells wrote:You know when you phrase it like that this game sounds ridiculously townsided.
So this is the set up of self-clearing. Basically LG's townflip MUST mean RC is town - you heard it from RC himself! That's bs.In post 243, RadiantCowbells wrote:I was scumreading both of you at the time because both of you were being absolute nonsense.
I came to the conclusion since that LG was more scum motivated compared to you being more likely to just be derptown.
Luckily a LG scumflip will confirm me as town or you're scum so your read on me isn't a huge deal to me.
Including if his partner is you, apparently?On the other hand Reck looks like he's basically given up on our group, which I can see given that I'm universally townread no matter who his partner is
In post 267, RadiantCowbells wrote:I don't want to lynch scum in my group if the other group's going to lynch town.
In post 288, RadiantCowbells wrote:I'm not hammering until I see your group's hammer.
In post 290, RadiantCowbells wrote:I don't care who I have to face in 3 way.
I care about them getting a vengekill in this group and killing me.
So these posts are important for later.In post 299, RadiantCowbells wrote:I lynch LG. He flips scum. You lynch Ranger. She flips town. LG vengekills me, obviously. Are we done?
Okay and here's the massive slip. LG was committing so hard to this narrative that they were going to get nightkilled in order to seem more towny. In fact, they knew there was no way they would get killed here because they knew two townies had been hit and so they just needed a little more towncred. LG was scumreading me, and Ranger was scumreading Reck, so one of the two of us was going to die and RC was trying to make sure it was me. Thankfully it wasn't so that we now have one last chance to lynch RC.In post 314, RadiantCowbells wrote:Zzz.
scum didn't want me hammering LyLo.
Chen, if you don't speedvote Reck I'm going to be fucking pissed at you. TIMU is town.
And seriously Ranger, don't fucking selfhammer. grats on that little number. if I don't get hammer and we lose this is on you.
In post 324, RadiantCowbells wrote:Alright.
So it should be fairly obvious that Chen is scum because he
1) Scumread me for reasons that far more easily and obviously applied to LG. Like his case and the whole gut thing on me was fairly terrible. I don't feel like I need to explain that to you again.
2) That entire RVS fiasco. Like seriously it was a disaster. I don't need to explain that to you again.
3) Refused to commit to a townread on either of us. It's pretty clear that throughout the game he (she?) knew that he/she was going to have to fight me eventually.
Even on the rare posts where he did 'townread' me it felt more like he just wanted to make sure that I lynched wrong by buttering me up. 240 and 228 are horrible because any interpretation would be that he'd be coming out scumreading both of us and uncertain and yet he came out of it scumreading LG which doesn't really jive with the posts themselves. And that making my decision easier for NAI stuff line in 245 is fucking dirty; like he's setting himself up to have lynched wrong. And even when he was scumreading LG he kept giving him outs as 'oh he could be bad town' and saying stuff like 'RC wasn't obvtown at all and that's what I'm scumreading you for!' which is just horribly transparently setting himself up to switch to pushing me.
Also read 313-315. I was pretty fucking sure LG was scum at that point and since I was already pretty close to hammering Chen, which LG should have known since I said I was going to hammer my townread to give myself hamer in the endgame. So LG selfhammering threw me the fuck off and I was near positive that he was scum and did it because he was afraid that I'd hammer his partner today. Chen on the other hand already knew that it was town so he started setting himself up for the fight that he knew was coming. I thought that LG was scum and that should be pretty clear from those posts.
No I didn't lie. Where did I "know" LG was town after their self hammer and before their flip?? Please do share, because apparently you know that I knew things that I never myself knew.In post 343, RadiantCowbells wrote:Uh, you did lie and blatantly so and it's eminently demonstrable.
Town you had no way of knowing that LG was town for that selfhammer. I assumed he was scum trying to prevent me from
You immediately knew after the hammer that he was town in spite of him being your primary push for the day.
Then you lied about it after and said that you actually thought LG was scum. It's super obvious on reread.
LGs stages were 90% townreading you for no apparent reason. You flip flopped on your TRs too. So don't you go saying that I kept you both as viable lynches when all it was is that I did not know 100% who was scum. I at least committed to a vote, unlike you?Me and LG both went through stages of townreading people. At no point in this game did you ever put anyone in our group as townreads; you kept us both as viable lynch options because you knew we were facing this 1v1.
Chenoan did not. He kept us both in his scumpool and just
I cannot attest to that one way or another, I only know what was said in this thread regarding how they failed to read you in the past. you're the one who brought it up to begin with, why back-pedal now?And for the record, Ranger is an amazing scumhunter. I myself nommed her for an award for best town play.
I'm assuming this is pointed at TiMU, because from my view, you're completely obvscum. I'm still so mad at myself that I ever mistrusted my gutread.I'm town, I don't understand why you're scumreading me and I think Chen has been pretty fucking obvscum.
If there's anything you have questions about in my play ask away.
In post 313, Chenoan wrote:... are you joking though.If they both flip town I'm pissed.
Didn't I just say how there's no positive outcome to two town lynches???????
Oh my god. Well played, maf. You basically won at this point. Ugh.
In post 348, RadiantCowbells wrote:
Oh my god. Well played, maf. You basically won at this point. Ugh.
This is clearly not something you're talking about with any 'ifs'.
stahpit.
In post 342, Chenoan wrote:Here's what's going on:
1) You say I'm lying
2) I say I'm not
3) You say I'm lying about not lying
4) repeat until TiMU hammers.