Micro 598: Anime U-Pick Pack A (CRUNCHYROLL WINS!)

[Virtue]

Hi. Someone tell me why Magna is sucking air?

[Virtue]

@Thor, we claimed tracker and watcher who saw no actions at or by Magna, because of lying or roleblock. The irony of your post is frankly astounding here. I'm obviously an alt Thor.

We can tell I am the honest one just by the vote pattern.

If you and Dwlee were scum together, you would have picked my wagon and hammered it before we showed up. So that's out. At maximum only one of you two can be scum.

Then we have fire voting. Fire being scum with either one of you two is incredibly suboptimal. That means he picked the lesser town wagon when you are both highly active posters. He's not scum with Magna, as his vote would be game throwing. His action if scum with Ranger again is highly suboptimal. Then there is the whole thing about claiming my predecessor's play was bad, so that is why scum wouldn't do it.

Given Fire has no available partners, he must be town. There are competing counterclaims in mylo. We've found a town player, by definition the opposition wagon must be scum.

[Virtue]

Pretty sure you're not an alt Thor.

Your point about Fire is meaningless - Fire positioned himself before Dwlee and I replaced in, so...?

I also don't get how you presume (even if I were to accept that Fire is town) how his presence on a wagon assures it of being a town wagon.
By that logic double scum has to be voting for you. Which would make Kanbei scum, which would mean that he is a scum fruit vendor (per Dwelee's claim) or that scum have a poisoner, who claimed poisoner, and town has a track/watcher *and* a role that auto tracks the poisoner.

Which just seems rude to scum.

From my perspective, the Fire question is easier. I am town. So if Fire and Magna are town, scum would move to quicklynch. Yet for purposes of this discussion, we'll suppose that is unknown.

The logic doesn't mean that double scum have to be voting for me. It just makes it the most likely scenario. Two townies must be on a mislynch to have it go through. So there is the possibility that Magna is scum with one of you two, Ranger is town, and scum are waiting for the last townie to make the wrong move. It's just improbable at this point.

Giving scum an additional kill is pretty powerful. It must be balanced by something. Having an autotrack on the extra kill can make sense. The other option is Dwlee is the poisioner and claim the Poisoner's actions because he is the poisoner. I am more inclined to think it's a balancing mechanic though.

[Virtue]

Oh, wait, and also this, that I was typing up before I went for the above maneuver.

WHOOPS!

Rhaz's power set seems substantially more powerful than any of ours.

The Fruit Vendor thing is being a bit wonky to me - if MoI and Fruit Vendor are both legit, then theoretically that's kind of like a potential double clear in Day 2.
Especially odd with the Fruit Vendor verifier - almost like it's trying to punish scum if they deny getting the fruit?
Eh?

With MoI's claim and Rhaz's, there is potentially a scum JKer.
Okay, let's think this through;

Rhaz town/MoI scum - MoI *has* to be Ascetic at this stage (because with the Fruit Vendor also targeting him he can't be a Ninja) or scum would have needed to roleblock Rhaz (in which case MoI would know that and would probably have had a cooler response to Rhaz...? Considering the town PR spread I see little point to a Mafia Ascetic, I will admit.

Rhaz scum/MoI town - Rhaz is probably the scum JKer/RBer and targeted MoI, as an early claim this makes sense for fear of an actual tracker sort of claim. My big issue here is the potential self kibosh for a counter investigative claim (did Rhaz claim the Tracker/Watcher thing after any other claims?) There is a likely 100% chance town would get an investigative of some stripe, and scum should know that, so though there is a strategic concept to that ploy. I suppose I need to go and look at how well regarded Rhaz was after Day 1, but I will admit my skin crawls that MoI claimed second and, lulz, also investigated the person he's counterclaiming.

There's an error here unless I misread something. Only if the fruit vendor targeted Magna the same night (tbh I skimmed) would Magna be required to be ascetic. If Magna is ascetic, instead of a blocker, Ranger's vote (although incorrect) does make sense.

Giving scum an ascetic and an extra kill would be very powerful on balance.

[Virtue]

I received no object.

Dwlee, what are your thoughts on Magna/Ranger? What are your possible scenarios?

[Virtue]

Well, cannot divulge much, but I will say this: beware of words.

Are you trying to communicate something to us through a post restriction? If so, don't acknowledge this post. I'll assume I'm correct unless you explicitly say no.

Quoting this here. Why would Kaibei, if he gives antidotes think Jeanne is trying to communicate through a post restriction?

[Virtue]

Hey wait a minute, Jeanne is you. How would you be a poison autotracker and be the only one told how the poison works?

[Virtue]

Hey wait a minute, Jeanne is you. How would you be a poison autotracker and be the only one told how the poison works?

and scum would know how the poison works obviously

Yeah, this doesn't answer my question and I still have no idea on your reads.

[Virtue]

@Thor

– I understand why you did what you did re: Virtue but did you seriously think it would work?

If it did - great, we catch scum.
If it didn't - it hurts nothing.

So even for a .00001% chance it was worth doing.

I think the chance was at least that.

Irony.

[Virtue]

Dwlee, this is the third time I am asking for your reads.

Your role pm according to Jeanne states that the poisoner triggers on the common words. Yet the moderator stated such a mechanic of PR restricting everyone isn't viable. You're claiming to also permatrack the poisoner. Yet in that case, wouldn't you just be able to tell the person at risk that they would be?

Your reads.

[Virtue]

Nah the wagon looks like RVS to me. I'd rather let discussion come naturally than try to force it like androgyny.

mm, so, few things. i'm not sure what Jeanne was doing, but i'm pretty sure she misinterpreted some things with our role? i'm wondering if i should just go full or partial disclosure on this, she's already talked about it way more than was necessary. (none of what she said was necessary)
also, hi Soren! what made you guess the thing regarding my role?

i'm not great at rereads, i'm much better at interacting with people and getting reads that way, but how i feel right now is, androgy is town, Soren i need to talk to, Rhazhbash was scum until she said a thing that made me rethink it, and i don't have any other strong opinions rn. i hope we can all chat and help me get some!

What mistake do you think Scourage is referring to here?

Why are you putting no effort into sorting at mylo of you have no reads?

[Virtue]

@Thor/Ranger, Pretty sure this is Magna and Dwlee. Ball is in your court.

[Virtue]

@Thor/Ranger, Pretty sure this is Magna and Dwlee. Ball is in your court.

This doesn't quite make sense to me.

It does to me. Dwlee has no reads in lylo. The claim makes zero sense. Dwlee functions as a hammerer if Thor makes the wrong choice.

Ranger (if I understand the claims correctly) tried to visit Magna and failed. We claim a failure to visit on Magna or blocked or Magna is ascetic. Magna claims a contradiction to us. Ranger knows based on his attempt to visit Magna failing that one of Magna/Virtue is scum. Given our result "contradicts" hers, she supposes it is us. Contradicts is in quotes because Ranger's analysis fell short.

While there is a possibility of the other way, Dwlee coasting in lylo is not at all town motivated and I can see why Ranger voted why she did.

[Virtue]

@Thor, I am obviously an alt. I am aware of your position on that particular reaction test. Yes, it is ironic that the one guy who thinks they never works on him used it. I am not accusing that of being scummy just ironic and I couldn't help myself.

As for Ranger, it's not a "lark" clear at all but logically deduced. I know Magna is scum. Fire Assassin could easily have justified voting my slot if he was scum, so he's town. So that leaves one scum in you/Dwlee/Ranger.

Out of the three, I am looking to see who is scumhunting and who has consistent play. Your opening reaction test looked pretty town. You were engaging and attempting to sort with a low risk maneuver. You haven't stopped since.

Now, we have Ranger and Dwlee. Ranger opens very different than her scumgame, she's reading and sorting people. She's engaging and asking questions to form her reads. The claim mechanically confirms one of us as scum for the most part. Unless Ranger is a roleblocker that ascetics the target and is scum with FA, that move makes little sense for scum Ranger.

Dwlee on the other hand has made zero effort to sort anyone, ignored my questions for reads multiple times, and makes no sense. Dwlee in his first content says that I am overeager to get a lynch through on him, that makes zero sense. Today's lynch is on me or Magna. If the game continues to tomorrow, it means Magna is scum.

Dwlee is not making an effort to solve the game or get reads.

[Virtue]

@Thor, We'll drop the ironic point for now, as it's not worth exposing my alt over.

I don't see this as scum Ranger. Scum Ranger is in Open 627 by Pisskop. Go to town. She subbed in there too. Scum Ranger didn't lurk and the reads she pushed were contrary to reason.

Dwlee has made as much effort as me? Seriously? I have walked through the entire game and highlighting who is scum and the guy who is lurking and waiting around for a hammer and engages in reflexive scumreads has put out just as much effort? Your definition of effort needs adjustment.

Now, as for thin value judgments, that to me feels insulting. We're all looking at optimal play here. This is lylo, eliminating possibilities is the way to go.

You, as compared to Dwlee, are asking questions with clear motivation and intent towards solving the game. You're asking me pointed questions with the goal of sorting me. When Dwlee was called out, he didn't bother scumhunting. Rather Dwlee accuses me if trying to stir a quicklynch on him which is nonsense.

Your theory about battle lines is blatantly wrong though. Right now, I need two move votes on Scum Magna. Those votes can likely only come from town. So I will reach out to my townreads to do it. Even in his recent post, Dwlee sheeps your thoughts while providing none of his own.

[Virtue]

@Dwlee, Yes they are.

@Ranger, I think you're town. Engage me please. Your claim (visiting Magna) is proof of them being ascetic when combined with mine. Magna made up their claim after we pressured them.

[Virtue]

@Ranger, Do you have doubts as to Thor's towniness? I know massclaim lylo and all but if no one doubts him, we do not need his claim. Plus, I can check Thor and verify that aspect.

We claimed to know Magna was guilty. They cced. That's where the claim was made up.

[Virtue]

@Ranger, The reason scum!Magna doesn't claim it is because they are scum. If they were town and not ascetic, they would be honest. If they were town and ascetic, they would have claimed that day 1. The only way they can be town is if someone made them ascetic. At that point, they would be arguing you framed them though.

[Virtue]

@Ranger, Do you have doubts as to Thor's towniness?

It's mylo.

So.

Yes.

I think he is town.

I am not going to blindly risk the whole game on the assumption he is town.

Is it blindly risking though by not having obvtown claim in lylo/mylo?

[Virtue]

Side-note, I know who Virtue most likely is.

If I'm right, this play is slightly more likely from them as scum, but only slightly.

The appeal in 513 in particular looks like an attempt to push for two town players as scum, while appealing to the other two town players. (Fire Assassin is, conveniently, left out.)

You trying to hunt alts, is pissing me off.

YOU KNOW THERES A REASON PEOPLE PLAY ON ALTS, RIGHT!?
Jackass.

He wasn't hunting. Saying he knows who I am isn't alt hunting.

[Virtue]

roleblock or magna being ascetic..?

Again.

If he were scum.

Why not lie and say he got it?

It gets me more likely to trust him.

On the other hand, by him not claiming he got it, he's definitely not doing himself favors. It sounds like town who doesn't know what's happening.

Because he's stuck with the claim he didn't get it. He never received it because he's ascetic.

[Virtue]

@Thor, I would see jailkeepers.

[Virtue]

The only protective role that could have acted was a doctor not a jailkeep. So why are we saying a jailor flipped?

[Virtue]

Why don't you get the exact post?

I don't think I'm that drunk but I don't think Magna claims scum cop and everyone misses it. I think they are scum but that would be a wee be fortituous.

Also, if that is a jailkeeper claim, it flipped day 1 and thus cannot explain the situation we are seeing.

If a jailkeeper that's alien which is Thor's suggestion exists, then Magua and I are both town and scum are lying in wait. I don't see that happening if that role that flipped is already a jailkeeper though.

Hi Thor. I learned a lot from you, although not the bad stuff. That's just my personality.

[Virtue]

Thor is to Virtue as Virtue is to Dwlee.

[Virtue]

That sounds more like an alignment cop claim... bungled though but that's what it sounds like.

I think Magna is scum but not for that.

[Virtue]

Nope, but whatever belief gets you to vote Magna, then we can sort it out tomorrow.

If you're town and I'm wrong about Ranger you'll win one.

Just keep investigating if you're town.

[Virtue]

Nope, but whatever belief gets you to vote Magna, then we can sort it out tomorrow.

If you're town and I'm wrong about Ranger you'll win one.

Just keep investigating if you're town.

the last few pages feel like you trying to somehow position the wagon into tvt with the whole jailkeeper thing.

ok just read again, I misread something. Could have sworn something with the jailkeepers was implying tvt?

That's the only way Magna and I would be t v t is if someone made someone else ascetic and given the flips that's really really remote. Enough I'd bet the game on it.

[Virtue]

Totally beginning to think my Dwlee/Ranger reads are wrong given Ranger's inability to apply Occam's Razor or engage in substance discussion and a vote on Magna doesn't make sense here if Dwlee is scum.

[Virtue]

@Thor, it's impossible to determine game balance in a vacuum as we do not know what the scum roles are.

That being said, Ranger and Dwlee based on setup spec alone, are unlikely to be aligned. An "antidote" vendor and then someone who knows who is poisoned and can stop that seem directly contradictory.

I would disagree with my role being that powerful. Many roles are stationary, there are a lot of blockers, and scum must have a lot of power. FireAssassin is a miller to my rolecop portion.

In a regular larger game with more nights, my role would be more powerful.

As for Mol, a normal claim should send up red flags. Most roles aren't 100% normal. The doctor that flipped technically might commute the person he saves. Dwlee isn't normal. FA had a scumrole adapted to town. This isn't a game where town is normal.

[Virtue]

@Magua, Yes, my role has downsides. Namely my role usually exists as a scumrole although Titus did have a town variant possibility in Don't Trust Titus. People think it would be scummy. FA looks like scum for Vig. I look like scum for OP. Dwlee looks like scum for too much info.

Your clam is too normal in that it's designed to look townie.

Now, you've taken to misrepping Dwlee's claim.

Dwlee, you should vote Magna. Let's win this.

[Virtue]

Dwlee is conftown.

Well that solves the game for me.

Thor when you want to get your reads straight, rather than listing the pros and cons but weighting them and comparing them to newb town play, let me know.

If your answer is truly final though, then the best town can do is draw and that's unfortunate.

[Virtue]

I thought Ranger was still voting me? I guess not. Dwlee wouldn't technically be conftown then.

Magna's still scum though.

I'm very disappointed in you Thor or in the situation. I've modeled a lot of my better traits on you (although I fall short very frequently), I presumed you'd see me as town and see those parts if it wasn't having my main attached to it. I've always looked up to you as a player, and now I'm seeing that my personality type is very much a glaring blind spot in how you play (not just my name and the fear it can bring). I know you're probably going to read this as AtE, and I'll suppose in a way it is, but it's more of a self-reflection that I want to put in here and mark this for my future interaction with you. So at least I've learned something, so if you're hellbent on my slot being scum, go ahead. I'll know that a good chunk of it was

how

Rhaz claimed too. I do think you're too caught up in the weeds to see the forest and the gamestate as a whole. Please don't take that as an insult but take it as a sign of respect that I'm telling you this so you can correct and readjust your play in the future if you are feeling this way. I still think you're one of the best scumhunters on site.

[Virtue]

How?

"Hey, shoot MagnaofIllusion." "Oh, I can't actually shoot someone." "Oh, in that case, I have a guilty on MagnaofIllusion."

Convenient.

There was already a shot last night. Were you expecting a second shot?

[Virtue]

Hey Thor,

Common sense principle here. It's lylo right? Ranger has voted and unvoted my slot but done zero investigation here. Ranger hasn't discussed potential teams or anything. Their votes fit for the scumteam, their play is scummy. The only concern there is the claim looks good but not even the situation surrounding it looks good (I am referring to the they claimed second). When only the claim is good, you have long odds of it being true.

[Virtue]

Thor,

I respectfully disagree with your assertion that Thor has done zero investigation around our slots and the claims today. He assesses the pros and cons.

Meanwhile, Ranger has done jack crap, while actively posting in other games. Ranger voted and then unvoted in lylo. You'd expect some investigation or revelation to be linked to the votes, but she is more focused on appearing town than being town.

Fire Assassin doesn't fit a scumteam partner, like I said many posts before. A partner never doubts their buddy in lylo unless it's over the top and a planned bus.

You can keep rearranging the deck chairs, but you're never going to find me a suitable mate because I am not scum.

Lastly, 10/10 analysis avoiding snark. Good for you.

P.S. if either Dwlee or Ranger is town, this is lylo not mylo.

[Virtue]

Now, that's the Thor I remember.

Take all the credit you want.

Dwlee, what I mean there is if there actually is a poisoner for you to track, the scumteam could have two kills tonight. That would bring the game down to 2 v 2. Thus GG.

[Virtue]

Do we have to lynch magna or virtue? Like.. do we? I guess the investigative things ir whatever. But I kinda count as an investigative as well

We've crossclaimed guilty results on each other. You're going to have to make a choice Dwlee.

Pssst, you'll win if you hammer Magna.

[Virtue]

I go to the church for last rites.

I dead.

[Virtue]

Us!

[Virtue]

Sorry for blatantly manipulating you Dwlee.

[Virtue]

Sorry for blatantly manipulating you Dwlee.

I knew something was up! I couldnt figure out what but I kept getting these bad feelings reading your posts. Being genuine probably woukd have been better as I probably woukd have figured out you were being genuine and it would have been less painful.

No. You townread me more when I was manipulating you.

[Virtue]

Tbh, why didn't you bus Ranger when I gave you the opening?