Micro 623: Dem Tryouts 2 [GAME OVER]

[SloppyJoe]

unvote

I'll vote in a second

[SloppyJoe]

I usually post rather scarcely but it's early Saturday plus nobody was writing anything so why the hell not. Aren't you happy to have more material to analyze? I can't tell how I'm gonna play cause I don't have a consistent style so have fun replacing out if you can't take it.

If that's not how you're going to keep posting, okay. I just don't want to be overloaded here.

Moving on. Regarding your first question:

do you think it's a good idea to state when I've been hit?

I think it can have value. It puts a target on your back for next night, but if you don't mind that, it can be used as a scumtell.

I disagree that this setup is rought on town, though. With two mafia factions against a town this small, cross-targeting becomes a major factor, and subsequent night action resolution can shed some light on alignments.

I'm torn on a No Lynch as well. On the one hand, we are slightly more likely to lynch scum than town (4:3), and slightly more likely to be hit by either kill than for the opposite mafia faction to be (3:2) - which is not an immediate issue, given the bulletproof vests, but it's nicer to keep having that safety as long as possible. So lynching someone would mean getting ahead of the kills. A No Lynch would make sense if we hope for cross-targeting. But none of this is taking the roleblocks into account.

It's been a while since I've thought about mafia - what are the others' opinions on these questions?

This seems townish.

[SloppyJoe]

VOTE: pistachi0n

[SloppyJoe]

I understand the idea behind being torn between a no-lynch because the crossfire aspect is so huge. On the other hand, if we get one townie dead, we're already doomed. I'm voting on pistachion just because and will probably change it.

[SloppyJoe]

I didn't say he's town, I just think that post looked relatable.

[SloppyJoe]

I'm going to work on homework now. I'll be back in the evening.

[SloppyJoe]

Well I'm back.

Yeah, there were a lot of varibles that I missed. I was imagining scum teaming up (especially Day 2) but didn't consider fake scum claims which could really mess everyone up. But if the scum teams do successfully team up, that means that we lose for sure if they can both win together.

[SloppyJoe]

Alrighty. Lemme know what you think of other players when you're ready.

I used to think that the people going for NL were town, but I missed some factors like the bulletproof (I initially misread it as a 1 shot). Right now I'm not completely sure.

I think The_Jester is just enjoying his/her role. Someone needs to do a meta to see if he/she enjoys being scum or town more.
But for the most part it's a bit too early to tell besides some hunches.

[SloppyJoe]

*one-shot Vigilante

[SloppyJoe]

If they can both win, why not?

LOL, the only thing saving this town are the possibilities of fake scum claims.

Also,
UNVOTE: pistachi0n

Good night all.

[SloppyJoe]

Well I was trying to bait a scum team. Sorry guys I'm kinda n00bish. I'll try to get my head in the game this afternoon.

[SloppyJoe]

Right now I can't see any clear scum teams, getting towny hunches towards Something_Smart. That's about it. Don't have a clear read on The_Jester yet. So nullish. I'm feeling scum from DocterPepper but that could just be an OMGUS going off in my head subconciously. Oh yeah and I don't want a No Lynch except as a last resort (like we run out of time).

@Something_Smart How can you be sure this game can be solved on day 1?

[SloppyJoe]

@Doctor Pepper Why do you think The_Jester seemed off?

[SloppyJoe]

*Cricket*

[SloppyJoe]

Okay. @pistachi0n do you have any strong reads?

Scumread on Sloppy Joe.

VOTE: sloppy joe

also, I'm bored with the theory talk. I'm voting to lynch someone today.

Cute.

[SloppyJoe]

also, I'm bored with the theory talk. I'm voting to lynch someone today.

This is super anti-town, by the way. My vote was in the right place.

VOTE: pistachi0n

[SloppyJoe]

Wanting to lose 10 days of day 1 cannot be described as anything other than scummy.

[SloppyJoe]

Even without a L-1 warning. Tsk, tsk, reckless scum.

[SloppyJoe]

That's only a vest at night, bro.

[SloppyJoe]

I mean sister

[SloppyJoe]

You seem very defensive about getting voted on. I'm also surprised by the dissonance you've created between posts #111 and #112. First you shrug it off, and then you freak out (when you noticed being at L-1?)

On a scale of 1-10, how much are you afraid to die?

Um... 0? I'm more pissed off about someone who claims to be town putting town at l1 for literally no reason. But yeah I genuinely don't care if I'm the day 1 lynch anymore.

So stop assuming other peoples' emotions over this.

[SloppyJoe]

You seem to hold a grudge against pistachi0n, try to convince us we should lynch her instead of you.

I'm not holding any grudges, I just find it scummy that she

hasn't given any reason to scumread me.

Also, if she is town, placing a fellow townie at lynch 1 is super risky and antitown behaviour.

@Sloppy Joe--I didn't say I wanted to lynch someone NOW. I want to lynch someone TODAY. And I already said we have a greater than 50% chance of hitting scum even if we lynch totally randomly. I'm not convinced that hitting a town will hose us because town is all bulletproof and scum is not.

This is basically YOLO.

My whole bandwagon is based on tunneling and LOL let's lynch a random person because its 4/3.

[SloppyJoe]

I think it might even be a good idea to not place anyone person at l1 for now considering there are 4 scum who could easily turn the voting tide.

[SloppyJoe]

IMO It sounds like Shotty was an anti-town type guy which is an easy target for the mafia. Then tunnel and profit!

[SloppyJoe]

My reads so far-

TOWN
The_Jester- the main poster and is really getting the discussion going with informative questions. Though I do not really like the way he sometimes assumes my emotions over certain things but those are probably honest guesses.
Something- Seems conservative and wants to know for certain before making rash decisions. In a set up like this, this feels really town.
RachMarie- Nullish scum at this point but I am glad someone else was able to see my point of view about pistachi0n
DocterPepper- Pretty weak vote for Jester and pretty weak vote for me IMO. Nullish-scum
Kortz- Actually changed my read here. I feel like he has some tunnel vision going on (see my last post) and probably thinks he can profit by supporting the lynch of a stupid thing shotty said. So yeah probably scum.
pistachi0n- weak play in general and feels very scum. This is not how town would act.

[SloppyJoe]

Ugh a no lynch would probably just help scum figure out who's town. It's a gamble based on probability and the math is against us. 3/5 plus 3/5 does not help town. That's why I'm against a no-lynch.

[SloppyJoe]

Also your post was pure fluff.

[SloppyJoe]

Probably should be sober when figuring out variables. Most of what you stated was rather obvious.

[SloppyJoe]

Drunk post.

Thoughts on setup, no lynch, etc.

---

We No Lynch, here's what can happen. We go into night with 3:2:2.
Worst case, the same townie is killed by both scum teams, Day 2 starts with 2:2:2, where lynching scum can doom town, and another No Lynch might have to happen.
If the kills hit different townies, we continue Day 2 with 3:2:2, back where we started, and we face the same dilemma with only a single vest left among us.
But at least one of the kills has a good chance of finding the rival scum team,

which would put us in a better position with less risk than trying a lynch at 3:4.

If you weren't for a no-lynch, what did you mean with this? You said it would be less risk. How? Was my math off?

[SloppyJoe]

I would like to hear Something_Smart's reads. I'll try to see if I can comment before tomorrow evening. Korts, I don't think you understand my point. Also,

We Lynch scum on Day 1, we have a much easier job with everything.

i was sober all last week and never thought of any of that

this was kinda funny.

[SloppyJoe]

Holy crap you guys my math was way off.

Chances of mafia hitting each other - 4/25
Chances of Mafia A hitting mafia and chances of mafia B hitting town 6/25 (3/5 times 2/5)
Chances of Mafia B hitting mafia and chances of mafia A hitting town 6/25
Chances of Both mafia hitting town 9/9

-In this setup a no lynch is more likely to hit scum than a lynch. I didn't compute the role block factor, but I'm guessing it should not have a huge effect on the probability.

4/7 vs 16/25
translates to 16/28 vs 16/25

I'm not especially for a no lynch, but at least it is a safe option.

[SloppyJoe]

VOTE: No lynch
for now. See you guys in the evening.

[SloppyJoe]

Drunk post.

Thoughts on setup, no lynch, etc.

---

We No Lynch, here's what can happen. We go into night with 3:2:2.

-Obvious

If the kills hit different townies, we continue Day 2 with 3:2:2, back where we started, and we face the same dilemma with only a single vest left among us.

-Obvious

But at least one of the kills has a good chance of finding the rival scum team, which would put us in a better position with less risk than trying a lynch at 3:4.

This is so fluffy.

We end up lynching a townie, here's what can happen. We go into night with 2:2:2.

Fluff fluff fluff.

The kills have less chance of finding town, let alone both kills finding the same townie. If it does, though, we are fucked.

Super obvious.

We Lynch scum on Day 1, we have a much easier job with everything.

How is this even NOT FLUFF.

Given the unusual balance in this game, we have a much better chance of lynching scum, though.

Thank you for that.

My math was wrong but I used actual probability INSTEAD of 'well if town is lynched we're worse but if scum is lynched we're better'.

Also, drunk posting IS NOT responsible town play no matter how you put it.

[SloppyJoe]

From wikipedia (verbatim):

Ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a logical fallacy in which an argument is rebutted by attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.

Honestly I think Korts will just scumread anything I post. smh

[SloppyJoe]

VOTE: Korts

[SloppyJoe]

Like I said, I think Shotty was just an aggressive player who appeared anti-town in any alignment.

[SloppyJoe]

Posting felt like he was trying to seem town, like his posts were structured to seem likw he was scumhunting and making newbie tells. Normally thats a scum tell for me.

Well, I mean, as town I try to seem town.

[SloppyJoe]

Ideally, I want to tell each scumteam who to nightkill.

What do you mean by this?

[SloppyJoe]

I swear there has to be at least two scum on my wagon.

RachMarie, have any of your reads changed? I'm reading your ISO and it seems like you're just doing the minimum to get by.

[SloppyJoe]

Ok so we got Rachmarie, DP, and pistachi0n who need to post more.

[SloppyJoe]

By far the most active player. He drives most of the activity of others, as well, and seems to take a sort of moderating role. He seems genuinely intent on solving this game. Off the top of my head, though, I don't remember who he is voting or even thinks is scummy - he is leading the town, but I'm not sure if he has a specific direction in mind.

Okay none of this has anything to do with alignment. But unlike you, I won't blindly claim that you stole my conclusions.

[SloppyJoe]

@shos please prod Dr.Pepper. This game is turning into mud.

[SloppyJoe]

@ shoes

... and pistachi0n.

[SloppyJoe]

it fluff. In reality, only town benefits from a lynch today, because we have 4 scum in Day 1. There is literally a larger chance we're gonna kill scum now. Stop pushing for no lynch, that only helps scum. It can only help town if scum hits scum, but even then, they have a 2/5 chance to hit opposite scum and 3/5 chance to hit town. There's a larger chance they waste their shots and hit town. And when this happens, when we have 7 players, do we keep no lynching until someone dies? We're lynching today, end of discussion.

I had the same mindset, but I realized my math was wrong. Look at post 157. Based on probability alone, there is a larger chance that scum will crossfire then the probability of lynching a scum.
I would not be surprised AT ALL if we had a Korts/DP scum team.

...Oh, and yeah, apparently I'm scared. That explains why I'm voting Korts, not the tons of scummy/fake stuff he said.

[SloppyJoe]

I would be surprised, however, if ANY of my four scum reads are off.

[SloppyJoe]

@shos please prod Dr.Pepper. This game is turning into mud.

Actually, now that I think about it you could be linked to Rach. You called me out specifically for inactivity, when Rach and I have had the same amount of posts yet you have no mention of her inactivity.

Don those tinfoil hats! Just a glance looking at the time stamps would prove you wrong.

[SloppyJoe]

And yes, there is a reason why I'm not placing pistachi0n at L1 yet.

[SloppyJoe]

Also this call for activity is a town cred attempt.

Agreed.

So now wanting more activity is "trying too hard to appear town." Gotcha.

@pistachi0n: Ok. Keep being irrelevant for all I care.

[SloppyJoe]

@pistachi0n Sorry misread your comment. Actually, it's for several reason, one being that I have a weaker scum read on you than on some other players.

[SloppyJoe]

By the way, I generally don't do or rely on reaction tests.

[SloppyJoe]

Yes you were.

Fri Jul 08, 2016 8:28 pm - Post 170
Mon Jul 11, 2016 1:28 am - Post 186

For the record, I called you out on 9:54 pm, and checked activity overview to make sure it was over 48 hours.

[SloppyJoe]

[There's not a lot of content for me to work with.] -This is the definition of hypocrisy.

[SloppyJoe]

pistachi0n, give me one good reason why I shouldn't vote for you.

[SloppyJoe]

VOTE: pistachi0n

It's like you're refusing to provide content.

pistachi0n is now L1

[SloppyJoe]

Is fluffing scummy? I'd say it's neutral. Isn't there anything you like about Korts' posts? Not a single sentence?

IDK, just seems very suspicious. Posts like 143 really feel like "Okay guys if we lynch a scum we have 3 scum left. If two scum die, we have two scum left..."

And then post 160 feels like it's trying way too hard to appear town. Especially considering the fact that no scum hammered my wagon, I'm pretty confident that my wagon was scum-lead. Do you think my read on Korts is wrong?

Granted I didn't read page 9 yet.

[SloppyJoe]

Pages 8-9 you get my drift.

[SloppyJoe]

If you think my reads are bad, tell me. (You seem to be skirting around that point without actually making it.)

I think your method is bad. Since your reads follow from that, I don't think they are very useful either. Looking at your latest stated reads in 152, I disagree with your RachMarie and DoctorPepper reads the most - I don't think DP is the scummiest, nor do I think Rach is particularly town-like.

Posts like this are also very weird, considering that Korts' and Something_Smart's reads were uncannily similar.

Korts' reads (Post 180):
The_Jester
Something_Smart
RachMarie
pistachi0n
DoctorPepper
SloppyJoe

Something_Smart's reads (Post 156):
The_Jester
RachMarie
pistachi0n
SloppyJoe
Korts
DoctorPepper

[SloppyJoe]

And for the record, I think Something_Smart's post had more reasonable scum/town tells.

[SloppyJoe]

In general, I would say that if Korts is town, he is unbelievably stuck in confirmation bias. But I thought Korts was a better town player than that, so that's why I'm scum reading him. I'll do a bit more meta-ing whenever I can.

[SloppyJoe]

Oops I posted a lot that means I'm panicking.

[SloppyJoe]

Still doing meta research.

[SloppyJoe]

Drat my post got deleted. So I just wanted to say that I've been doing a bit of meta-research, (not as much as I've hoped) and saw that Korts was ocassionally bullheaded and getting scum reads from town.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=12121
-In this game Korts (town) originally just got scum-reads from town players. (Look at his original votes) The only time I saw him vote for baddies was after post 1300.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=11495
-In this game town!Korts originally voted for Seraphim, a fellow town, and didn't change his vote until after post 500.

Granted, these are all old examples but based on play-style they seem somewhat relevant.

Korts, IF YOU ARE TOWN, you are going to lose the game with your bullheaded nature. We do not have the oppritunity to figure everything out day 3, and in some cases day 2 might be a mislynch and lose.

At Something_Smart, I've mentally grouped DP, RM, and pistachi0n together for having weak posts/scarce amounts of posting. It seems easy for coasting scum to do.

[SloppyJoe]

Mmm, buttery! But before you start posting in stream, please decide whether you're going to try painting me as scum, or if you want to appeal to my pride as a player - because you can't do both at once.

This is just blatant misrepresentation. I THOUGHT does not equal I THINK YOU ARE.

[SloppyJoe]

For all I know you could very well be pistachi0n's partner.

I think if that was the case he'd be scum-reading me and claiming intent to hammer. I actually have a pretty big town read on SS.

[SloppyJoe]

So my plan is to take the scummiest one and lynch him/her, rinse and repeat. I don't share your mindset of "townhunting" or "looking at the bigger picture".

This plan could be disaterious if we end up 2-2-1 where killing the lone mafia would lose us the game. It is very important for us to consider teams.

[SloppyJoe]

Even in some case in 3-2-1 lynching the lone mafia would lose us the game.

[SloppyJoe]

To be fair, I missed that. But eh, doesn't really matter when you look at the general case of rampaging bull-like character intent on killing a specific player without a good reason.

You know what, forget this.

pistachi0n MIGHT be town.
Even Korts MIGHT be town (though if he is, his playstyle is terrible and he needs to give up this game for good).

But I don't think DoctorPepper can be town.

VOTE: DP

[SloppyJoe]

Let's go here instead, guys.

[SloppyJoe]

Pistachi0n has purposely not shared a lot of her thoughts. People seem to be attacking her for it, but I think that if anything, it's towny.

pistachi0n's activity is incredibly anti-town. I'm putting my vote off her because there is a possibility in my mind that she is a VI, not that she has done anything townie. Lurking is far more of a scum-motivated logic than a town-motivated logic.

[SloppyJoe]

I preditcted this

*predicted

I'm not surprised that you can't understand basic townie behaviour.

[SloppyJoe]

I prophesy that DoctorPepper will make a typo let's see him prove me wrong.

[SloppyJoe]

It allows scum to get by easier in any setup. I'm not really sure why this particular setup would change that.

[SloppyJoe]

If I was scum, and I knew all I had to do was post as little as possible to be considered town, you bet I would take the easy road. Rather than earnestly engage in discussion. Her play is basically 'you're scum I don't care about theory'.

Pedit- Oh, looks like DP made 2.

[SloppyJoe]

Is that why you were wrong about the prod time?

[SloppyJoe]

Okay guys I have another prophecy. I predict that DoctorPepper will flip scum.

[SloppyJoe]

It's kinda weird when all my town reads consider you scum or are at least very suspicious of you.

But it's not weird for me to be suspicious of the people on my wagon because there has to be at least 1 confirmed scum on my wagon and I am fairly sure that there are 2.

[SloppyJoe]

Possibly? I barely log in from my laptop anymore and play on my.phone

Think again Nostradamus

This post made no sense.

[SloppyJoe]

not sure about that DP she may not have a lot of experience with multiball.

Which means she may be playing like scum in a standard setup, especially the newbie setup.

Not sure why your pronouns are off...

Do you actually think DP might be scum or are you just providing more weak fluff?

[SloppyJoe]

I think you're just trying to push people to me

That is correct.

[SloppyJoe]

Day 1 is good for a DP lynch. I have a stronger scum read on him and hopefully day 2 can start 3-1-1.

Would be nice to hear more reads from everybody.

[SloppyJoe]

Maybe if you keep telling yourself that over and over, it will come true.

[SloppyJoe]

I generally vote by my current level of confidence.

[SloppyJoe]

Care to elaborate on your reads? Or are you just pulled towards inactivity?

[SloppyJoe]

@Pistachi0n do you prefer playing as town or mafia?

I prefer playing as town.

I'm changing my vote to Rach, she's been having whatever the consensus opinion at the time is.

VOTE: Rach

...Well then.
Was there anything in particular that made you full-flip?

[SloppyJoe]

You think SS is scum because his case is bad?

Sorry guys I'm going to be busy for the next few days. If we can't agree on anything substantial before the last day, a no-lynch would be more preferrable than a quick-lynch.

[SloppyJoe]

The rest of your case is a bit off, you attack me for taking my pressure of the jester because I criticized Sloppy, yet the difference is Jester was at L-1. He could have been hammered by scum, who can QH in this scenario because no claim is needed. It's easy for scum to quickhammer in that case because they have a 2/5 chance to hit the other scum team if the subject was not their partner, and then with that, they will have a good scenario.

...

Im predicting the four scum to be SS, Sloppy, pist and Rach. In fairness, two permutations make sense.
Sloppy and Rach & SS and pist.
Sloppy and SS & Rach and pist.

I want sloppy first, but SS can go to with how his case went down. Talk about grasping for straws

This seems weak because both Rach and SS could have quick-hammered Jester.

[SloppyJoe]

We are NOT NLing on D1 no way, no how.

Scum will get the same amount of knowledge either way, but town shouldn't feel obligated to make rash decisions. If we do agree on a lynch, we should agree before the last day.

[SloppyJoe]

*Scum will get the same amount of night knowledge (unless we lynch a role-blocker, in which case the 2 player team will get even more knowledge).

[SloppyJoe]

@shos- I'm at L2 now.

Fixed.

[SloppyJoe]

I'm not entirely okay with lynching Stach.

[SloppyJoe]

Intent to hammer

If we don't go on one of my scummier reads before the deadline.

[SloppyJoe]

Okay, so Korts/DoctorPepper is 100% one scumteam. Other team, it's your own loss if you don't believe me.

I was thinking Korts/Rach and DP/pistachi0n.

[SloppyJoe]

Of course, a Korts/DP team also makes complete sense but that would mean probably Rach/Jester. And I think Jester is town.

[SloppyJoe]

For the record, I believe SS's case on DP was good.

[SloppyJoe]

@SS Are you worried by pistachi0n's seemingly random play?

[SloppyJoe]

[In the light of this, let's discuss Pistachi0n vs Marie. I'd like everybody to post a prefered choice with a short explanation, if you will.]

I see them as somewhat equals. Basically the reason I'm hesitant to lynch Rach is the same reason I was hesitant to lynch pistachi0n. I'd rather keep the DP wagon.

[SloppyJoe]

Well, you know, Korts is scum. He'll probably QH Rach for you.

[SloppyJoe]

Will try to read up on everything, sorry really busy atm.

[SloppyJoe]

[I think we should be lynching the person we are less confident in,]

You do realize we might be in a MyLo (worst case senario)?

The only way I can make sense of last night is that Korts/DP blocked me and were frantic when a hit actually came through. Thus the unexpected vote for SS is another attempt at B-team scumhunting (unless Korts can actually see a team that I can't imagine).

[SloppyJoe]

Reading up on this thread:

I don't particularly like the idea of NL today because scum have an easier time in 2-1-1 than 3-1. Thus, scum might even be inclined to night kill townies and then try to lynch the other scum in the day.

The vote on SS seems bizarre at first glance, but I too found myself disagreeing with a lot of stuff he said today. A Korts/DP team is likely, but a pistachi0n/DP or Jester/DP team wouldn't be impossible. I'll try re-reading everything to see if I missed anything.

pistachi0n has been so weak this entire game and DOES NOT deserve to win if she's scum.

Korts, the person you are failing to bring up in your RachMarie spreadsheet is yourself.

How?

SS, when I asked you are you worried about stach's play, I meant that if she's actually town, she's going to 100% make us lose by casting a vote without any thought behind it.

[SloppyJoe]

These are Rach's reads

(except on me)

and votes:

[SloppyJoe]

[If he flips town, then the scum are pistachi0n and Korts and at least one of them will definitely crosskill.]

As I said before, that might lose the game for us.

[SloppyJoe]

Worst case senerio, I haven't lost my vest yet. One scum shoots the town that did, the other shoots scum.

Now that I think about it, it's pretty unlikely but what is likely is us reaching a 2-1-1 where one townie (or both) lost his/her vest and we can no longer even afford to shoot scum. But the main point I'm trying to make is that with your plan, you're placing the strategies and plans right into the scums' hands. We can't afford to shoot anyone we're not very certain of.

[SloppyJoe]

But maybe I like butting heads over bad reasoning too much. I am certainly not as sure about you as I was yesterday, now that I had a three day break away from the game.

If Korts is scum, this sounds like he shot/blocked me.

[SloppyJoe]

This setup is designed around forcing crosskills. If you're town, you almost certainly lost your vest last night, and your lynch should lead to a town win.

Hardly. What I was trying to explain is that scum would benefit from a 2-1-1 rather than a 2-1 or 2-0 setup. In this sense, it makes sense

not to shoot the other scum team.

You're forgetting that scum can also use weird strategies.

Keep it simple, let's not complicate matters more than necessary.
VOTE: Korts

That's L1.

[SloppyJoe]

VOTE: pistachi0n

[Lynching him today forces me and Jester to decide between pistachi0n and SloppyJoe, and if I had to choose right now, I'd pick SloppyJoe.]

I'm not sure why you're saying this when Korts as scum has basically confirmed me as town.

Sorry, I missed that tommorrow was a MyLo.

[SloppyJoe]

*Would have been a MyLo

[SloppyJoe]

@Korts do you think it's likely for scum to bus their partners in this set-up?

[SloppyJoe]

I agree, I also think Sloppy Joe is the likely partner for Doctor Pepper.

Why the heck are you defending pistachi0n's play, SS?

[SloppyJoe]

I mean you said that I misrepresented her play when I pointed out an obvious error she made. Then she just made another one.

[SloppyJoe]

The_Jester said he thought I was on Scum team B, not A.

[SloppyJoe]

I think SS

might

be a team with Rach. DP's team might be Korts, and pistachi0n can fit in either slot so the only person I really trust right now is Jester. Still, that last post felt rather townie.

[SloppyJoe]

pistachi0n, if you're town, please replace out.

[SloppyJoe]

pistachi0n, if you're town, please replace out.

Why? (And what universe where pistachi0n is town makes sense?)

Also, answer my previous question.

For all I know, pistachi0n is a cleverbot designed to post every 46 hours. Her posts have no content, and as a mod I would ban such play. I honestly have no idea why you're supporting this, even if/though you believe she's town.

It's pretty clear that scum!Korts shot me night 1- consider the fact that he COMPLETELY dropped his case against me, and he decided to go after you (which I can only understand as a form of scum hunting). It makes complete sense if he's scum- why would you want to lynch a player when you just tore their jacket off?

[SloppyJoe]

How does it make sense for scum!Korts to shoot pistachi0n over me?

[SloppyJoe]

And I fucked up. EBWOP

I could also possibly see The Jester as scum for how he refused to hammer Rach yesterday, but everything else about him seems town.

Erm... it's hard to hammer when you have 1 vote and you're already on the wagon.
It's like you're not even reading the game.

Thank God someone with sense.

[SloppyJoe]

IDK if I was in that position as scum I would stall.

[SloppyJoe]

Scum are so used to faking cases to push mislynches, that it could be that the Korts/DoctorPepper team was pushing you while not believing that you were scum.

Even if it is the case that Korts/DP thought I was town, it doesn't make sense to shoot someone on my wagon. Of course, you're right, last night could have just been a wacky blunder on Team A's part. But I still think my explanation makes the most sense.

Hmmm... I wonder why your plan has to have a lynch, SS. If we're relying on crossfires, a mis-lynch should have roughly the same effect (one scum dies, possibility of 3-1 vs 2-1). I'm not so sure of a NL in this setup, but if we are going to go that route, today would be the best.

[SloppyJoe]

*no-lynch, not mis-lynch SORRY.

[SloppyJoe]

Okay let's repeat yesterday.

[SloppyJoe]

"Scum wouldn't vote for themselves in a hopeless situation." Please someone explain to me how this is not fluff because I am not getting it.

[SloppyJoe]

I would self hammer if I was more confident in my town read of SS or my scum read of Korts, or if I thought SS's plan was less risky than I think it is.

[SloppyJoe]

Even if you could see me pulling an elaborate tactic with Rach as my partner, think of how much easier it could have been for me to hammer pistachi0n, or you, when I had the chance.

This is a weird way of giving yourself towncred, considering that I followed the same hesitant-to-lynch playstyle while pistachi0n did the opposite.

[SloppyJoe]

I mean, if you're town, then you're admitting that you and I did a similar thing while pistachi0n did something different, which should make you feel better about my alignment, if that's your concern.

I'm not saying I find not hammering townie- I'm saying that your reads make less sense if you think not hammering is towny.

[SloppyJoe]

I was kinda leaving the fluffier players for day 2 and was kinda focused on starting BS with Korts and DP. I don't know how much Rach likes bussing/sheeping her partners. But it doesn't seem too weird to bus your partner for town cred in this set-up if she thought everything through.

I know where you're coming from, to an extent. When I saw Rach turn scum, I wondered if I was about to get shot by both teams for my extreme reluctance to hammer. But I wasn't being inconsistant- I suggested a no-lynch before the wagon on Rach even got going and really wanted to keep my vote on DP out of spite to prove his prophesy false.

Ohhh I have a prophecy. Someone will call out Sloppy again and then he'll flip to that person like he did on everyone on his wagon.

[SloppyJoe]

I also have a tendency (trying to get rid of) of being

really

OMGUS. I was also not too focused on the Jester or you, too, day 1.

[SloppyJoe]

Would prefer Korts and Jester to post more of their thoughts before a lynch.

[SloppyJoe]

If Korts is scum, I'd be willing to let him have second place for apologizing for the fuck yous.
If pistachi0n is scum, she deserves 3rd place.

[SloppyJoe]

Waiting on SS, don't have much to say right now.

[SloppyJoe]

Hammer pistachi0n.

[SloppyJoe]

Hey look everything I said was true.

[SloppyJoe]

If pistachi0n was town, we couldn't afford to lynch anyone.

[SloppyJoe]

What the heck, Korts? Yes, we were going to go NL but we just lost 13 days of discussion.

[SloppyJoe]

VOTE: Korts

For obvious reasons.

[SloppyJoe]

SS is confirmed town.

[SloppyJoe]

Yes, and then process of elimination.

[SloppyJoe]

I dunno what you thought we should discuss for 13 days, Joe. Perhaps if you had a subject in mind, you should have brought it up?

It would have been nice to hear more from Jester since we knew one townie was going to die.

[SloppyJoe]

No, that was just me answering your question.

But I think your case on me is rather weak, considering that a lot of what you said could be applied to yourself, or SS. We each had Rach in the middle of our lists and none of us really interacted with her that much.

[SloppyJoe]

That was a smart move on your part, I admit.

[SloppyJoe]

It would be nice to win my first town game where I wasn't the VI. I can see Korts as a smart scum player willing to take big risks, including the self voting and the Rach-partner lynch.

I think it was weird that Korts voted pistachi0n instead of me day 2 when we were both in his scum pile and I was at L1 instead of L2.
I've also noted how he pushed my wagon more since scum A team was eliminated. This is probably what he hoped for; now that scum A is eliminated, all you need is one town mis-lynch. And he probably planed to push my wagon late in the game but keep me alive until then.

[SloppyJoe]

I have a theory that pistachi0n actually shot the Jester night 1 (it would explain how she backed off his case day 2). When you suspected DP/P shot me night one, you probably thought the Jester had his vest still on, and wanted to shoot him (to remove his vest while not giving town any information). Of course, this is just a theory. A game theory.

[SloppyJoe]

Also 'If I was scum' senerios to me seems like a poor attempt at town-cred.

[SloppyJoe]

Yes, you are right. GG town.

[SloppyJoe]

Enjoy your festival, Korts.

[SloppyJoe]

Sorry for being unnecessarily rude to some of you guys, you all did great.