Micro 623: Dem Tryouts 2 [GAME OVER]

[Something_Smart]

Hi Jester do you remember me?
Also btw I'm pretty sure I know your alignment.

[Something_Smart]

It's supposed to look like that, yeah, but I just made it myself in Paint.
I changed it for last Marathon Weekend, and I'm planning on changing it again in the next few days.

[Something_Smart]

It was 1 hour 16 minutes from his first post to his last at the time of that post
VOTE: Korts lynch all liars!

[Something_Smart]

I'm pretty sure that BP's aren't told when their BP is used.

[Something_Smart]

RachMarie- ongoing, can't discuss
DoctorPepper- never played with
The_Jester- played with as town in a portion of my first newbie game, no strong feelings
Korts- never played with
pistachi0n- played with twice, once as each alignment, somewhat uninvolved as town but I caught her when she was scum (though I got lynched and she ended up living to endgame )
drmyshottyizsik- played with twice, once as each alignment, also modded a game where he was scum, abrasive and hard to reason with, particularly as scum. Lynchbait as either alignment.

[Something_Smart]

I think I found a tell for this setup. I suspect it's fairly reliable, but I don't know (as I've never played it before and the last time it was run was closed so I can't check there).
I will post results of said tell once I have a result from everybody.

[Something_Smart]

@mod: shotty will need to be replaced due to a tempban.

How can you have a tell for a setup as swingy as this?

Why shouldn't I? This setup is so wildly different for the scum and for the town, I think it's much easier to find tells.

@Smart, what do you think about NL D1? My thinking is: no townie can die tonight so we could wait one night and hopefully start D2 with potentially 2 mafia members dead. And even if they roleblock each other (doubtful) or decide on no kill (also doubtful) we'd just have a prolonged D1 to think of the strategy. Of course, it's early to debate on end of the day strats but it's not like the discussion's on fire anyway.

I think we shouldn't lynch unless we're very confident. I personally won't support a lynch unless I think I have the game solved. However I do think achieving those things D1 is feasible.

I will say that I already have one strong scumread, and two of my reads since my last post are actually starting to reverse.

[Something_Smart]

I'd like to hear more from pistachi0n.

[Something_Smart]

Ask him a question then. Provoke him to answer. If I say "I'd like ice-cream", it won't make it materialise out of nowhere.

*her

Okay. @pistachi0n do you have any strong reads?

@Something_Smart How can you be sure this game can be solved on day 1?

Theoretically, all games could be solved on day 1 by perfect scumhunting. For most setups it's really hard (although it has happened) but for reasons I explained before, getting reads is easier in this setup than in most.

[Something_Smart]

Okay. @pistachi0n do you have any strong reads?

Scumread on Sloppy Joe.

VOTE: sloppy joe

also, I'm bored with the theory talk. I'm voting to lynch someone today.

I kinda want to hear your thoughts on the setup though.

[Something_Smart]

Do you guys want to hear my reads? It's probably time to share them.

(My issue with sharing them too soon was that if I say "X is scummy for doing Y" then scum will avoid doing Y and I won't get a good read on them, but I think we're past that now.)

[Something_Smart]

Okay. So here's what I've got.

First of all, I noticed that townies and scum are playing a different game here. Whereas scum are playing sort of a normal game of mafia (hunting 2 scum out of 5 players), town are playing something like Jungle of Bullshit; the majority of other players are scum, and we need to find those two precious townies out of six. However, as has been said before, the scum need to find the other scumteam and that's more important than identifying townies.

So here's my tell: players who play this like a standard mafia game and focus primarily on identifying scum (rather than identifying town) are most likely scum themselves, whereas players who express confusion at the setup and try harder to find townies are more likely to be town.

With that in mind, here are my reads:

Towniest

The_Jester: This townread comes both from my tell and from the feel I get from his posts, which is kind of an invulnerable feel; he's not afraid to post what he thinks and post a lot, which is a towntell that carries over from a standard mafia game, amplified by the fact that scum are more afraid of dying at night than town. As for my tell, The_Jester is not needlessly throwing out reads, but is asking questions and trying to figure out what the heck is going on.

RachMarie: The second town is a tossup right now between pistachi0n and RachMarie, with a chance for SloppyJoe as well. RachMarie does seem to be showing the town side of the tell in 130, but what she says is so blunt that it could be her forcing herself into a different mindset, rather than that mindset just coming naturally. Her early posts (30 and 32) are similar; they do show a mindset but they are very obvious with that mindset, rather than it just being there and being the driving force behind her posts, that makes me less confident on her.

pistachi0n: I haven't heard enough from pistachi0n to make a solid read. That in itself slightly implies that she's town, but it could be that she's afraid of being killed (which scum are). She is searching for townreads (127) but also for scumreads (68, 110) so like RachMarie, I can't really lump her in either category.

SloppyJoe: Shotty made a fairly scummy entrance, voting a scumread without really thinking about the setup. At first glance I didn't like Joe's posting (his complete backtrack from 73 to 79, his weird teaming theory that sounds super scum motivated, and how he misread 1-shot BP as 1-shot vig), but given that he's new, I'll need to see more and he has made some good points. I liked how he pointed out that Jester is enjoying his role (and a cursory meta of a couple games confirms that Jester does enjoy town more), and his early townread of me seemed towny, and not just because it was right ( ).

Korts: The only thing that makes me nervous about these two reads is that they're both on people who haven't played in a while and are just coming back. But while Korts is so concerned with the numbers of the setup (showing he is aware of its strangeness), he doesn't seem to townhunt at all.

DoctorPepper: Similar to Korts. Immediately jumping to find scum but doesn't try to find town even after he is aware of the setup.

Scummiest

[Something_Smart]

I have a feeling both SloppyJoe and Korts are right about each other.

I find it weird that expressing confusion over the setup is a town tell when it could easily be a dumb tell. Why does this make people town?

As I said before, town and scum are seeing a vastly different picture here.
Town sees: 4 scum & 2 town in 6 unknowns
Scum sees: 2 scum & 3 town in 5 unknowns
So from the scum POV it's kinda like a regular mafia game, whereas from the town POV it's not like that at all. Ergo, confusion is town indicative.

Second, im your primary scum read for looking for scum. Why am I not your vote, youre still on Korts.

Until that post, I hadn't revealed my reads, and I haven't decided who I want to lynch yet. I'm about as confident on Korts as I am on you.

Third, townhunting just gives scum a nightkill target they can try to coordinate.

Scum would be stupid to aim for town as long as the other scumteam exists.

Why not just hunt for scum now to get a scum lynch, and then get the scum to night kill each other.

I do want to do that. Ideally, I want to tell each scumteam who to nightkill. I also want to townhunt to confirm my scumreads.

I believe in town hunting, I dont believe in revealing it now

Your posts don't seem to suggest that. This sounds like something you'd say to get me off your back.

[Something_Smart]

Ideally, I want to tell each scumteam who to nightkill.

What do you mean by this?

I want to pick out all four scum, lynch one (ideally a goon), and direct the scum to kill in the other three. I don't know if they will or not, but this setup was designed to rely on crosskills and attempting to target scum seems optimal for the scum. Because town clearly cannot win without crosskills.

[Something_Smart]

Something_Smart:

High activity, makes and freely shares mostly gut-based reads. I get where he's coming from with the scumtell, but it assumes a counterintuitive optimal play, and that both town and scum adhere to it. I know I don't. Nevertheless, he appears to be invested in the survival of the town.

His very first post is kind of weird to me, though:

Hi Jester do you remember me?
Also btw I'm pretty sure I know your alignment.

I'm sure there's some kind of site jargon for this, but I'm at a loss to express why the second sentence makes me uneasy. I'm assuming he was implying a town read, but there he doesn't definitely say, not does he provide any justification. It's just a vague statement of conviction addressed directly at the target of his read.

I never did explain that, and to be honest it's an instance of a thing that I do that I hate and I don't know why I keep doing.
It's where I see the wording of one thing (usually) and become absolutely convinced that that is scum wording for a little while.
Example
Example
Example
Example (Shiro read)
Example
Example
So I saw that post and I thought because Jester had said to "scumhunt normally" that he was scum for not saying "townhunt". So excuse my idiocy.

[Something_Smart]

Actually, I just remembered my other reason for making that post. Yes, I thought I had locked onto something, but it was also a reaction test, which Jester passed resoundingly. If I say that ("I know your alignment") to scum with a high degree of confidence (assuming they trust my high degree of confidence), then it would probably make them nervous, whereas it would make town confident.

I've been starting to try to work out teams (because that should help me find the other townie), but I'm trying to wrap my head around the likelihood of bussing.
On the surface, it seems suicidal. I hardbussed my partner in a Fire & Ice game and nearly won, however Fire & Ice gives the lone scum more time to even the numbers and there's no roleblocker. Bussing the roleblocker seems to be suicide, though if scum have a weak goon who's going to die eventually (like I did in that Fire & Ice game), they might find it worth their while to bus. I don't think scum would vote each other without the intent to lynch because this game is capricious and wagons could turn serious with no way out.
[/braindump]
I'll make a chart of interactions in a little while, saying who's said what or done what about whom. Hopefully that will shed a little more light on this.

[Something_Smart]

Because my goal is to find the other townie and if I can judge the likelihood of certain teams then that will help in judging the likelihood of people being scum.
And yes, my analysis might cause scum to act differently but (1) that might be noticeable, (2) that won't change what they've already done, and (3) no matter how you slice it, interacting naturally with your scumbuddies is hard.

[Something_Smart]

Actually, I just remembered my other reason for making that post. Yes, I thought I had locked onto something, but it was also a reaction test, which Jester passed resoundingly. If I say that ("I know your alignment") to scum with a high degree of confidence (assuming they trust my high degree of confidence), then it would probably make them nervous, whereas it would make town confident.

I've been starting to try to work out teams (because that should help me find the other townie), but I'm trying to wrap my head around the likelihood of bussing.
On the surface, it seems suicidal. I hardbussed my partner in a Fire & Ice game and nearly won, however Fire & Ice gives the lone scum more time to even the numbers and there's no roleblocker. Bussing the roleblocker seems to be suicide, though if scum have a weak goon who's going to die eventually (like I did in that Fire & Ice game), they might find it worth their while to bus. I don't think scum would vote each other without the intent to lynch because this game is capricious and wagons could turn serious with no way out.
[/braindump]

Okay, I think I'm finally keying into you, Something_Smart. You're too willing to engage in pop-psych analysis. I can see how "I know your alignment" can be a reaction test (although I'm not sure how you forgot that in your initial response), but the apparent slip that prompted it was based on the same setup-specific, counter-intuitive idea as your later tell.

Be aware that alignment is not the only difference between the players - we're different people with different instincts, judgment, priorities. Arguments based on expected behavior will not yield reliable results.

I don't think the reaction test is a strong alignment indicator, to be sure. I have other stronger reasons for that read.
And while everyone is different, there are some things that are universal and go beyond instincts, judgements, and priorities. If you think my reads are bad, tell me. (You seem to be skirting around that point without actually making it.)

I'll make a chart of interactions in a little while, saying who's said what or done what about whom. Hopefully that will shed a little more light on this.

Do that on Day 2.

This game could be basically decided on Day 2. Living interactions are important because even if we do lynch scum Day 1, things go much more smoothly for town if their partner hits scum and isn't roleblocked.

Feeling even better about korts being town.

Why??

[Something_Smart]

Sorry, I've been busy and there didn't seem like anything important to respond to.

I'd rather Korts or DoctorPepper be lynched. I'll have to look and see who's deflecting people away from those wagons.

I think pistachi0n prefers scum, but I'm not sure. You might want to ask her.

[Something_Smart]

Ok so the reason I'm having trouble pushing my reads and making cases is that this is not a normal game at all. RachMarie described the difference as "guilty until proven innocent", and that's pretty close to how I see it, although not exactly.

Basically, I'm forming reads based on the mindset people are showing me. DoctorPepper and Korts both show a clear mindset to look at individual people and sort out the scummiest ones. As I explained, this is a scum mindset.
SloppyJoe seems to be looking at the bigger picture, trying to figure out the whole game instead of individual people, and he's probably my most confident pick for the second town at this point.
Pistachi0n has purposely not shared a lot of her thoughts. People seem to be attacking her for it, but I think that if anything, it's towny.

Now I think VCA can do a lot this game, as scum would at the very least be hesitant to bus. I would also expect scumpartners to avoid associating if possible.
So I suspect that one of <pistachi0n, SloppyJoe> is town, although it's very hard to tell who people are defending in their posts because there's so much to attack. If one of them is scum, their partner is probably on the other wagon, which makes me feel worse about pistachi0n. But regardless, I don't think a more comprehensive case is necessary. In fact, usually the burden of proof is on the accuser; however, since town in this game are harder to come by than scum, the burden of proof should really be on the defender. I've presented my reasons for why SloppyJoe and pistachi0n are more likely town; now, I'd like the people attacking them to explain why Korts and DoctorPepper are town.

[Something_Smart]

See, I think you're severly overthinking it. I don't think any of you looks town at this point. So my plan is to take the scummiest one and lynch him/her, rinse and repeat. I don't share your mindset of "townhunting" or "looking at the bigger picture". I also don't agree keping your thoughts to yourself is pro-town at all. I think you're trying to push your agenda to mask that actually you have no real idea as to how solve the game. For all I know you could very well be pistachi0n's partner.

First of all, if you'd like, you can look at my meta, which will show that I have no trouble at all as scum pretending to solve the game. Even if you do think I have no real idea how to solve the game (which is false), why would that make me scum? If I were pistachi0n's partner I'd be hammering, or encouraging someone to hammer, SloppyJoe.

Second of all, you don't share my mindset. That's fairly obvious by now, and I think your method works pretty well for you. But I've talked a lot about town vs scum mindsets, does that make you scumread me?

Finally, why do you think pistachi0n is scummy? She hasn't posted much content. Do you know why? It's impossible to dodge attention in this game like you could in a larger game. Scum possibly have more motivation than town to talk, because town have a bulletproof vest, whereas scum have to dodge crosskills with all their might.

[Something_Smart]

VOTE: DoctorPepper I will definitely do this.

Sorry, it seems I have an itchy trigger finger today. This is my last EBWOP.

[Addressing Jester]

Second of all, you don't share my mindset. That's fairly obvious by now, and I think your method works pretty well for you.

Hold up. You just said that individual scumhunting as opposed to collective townhunting is a scum mindset, to which Jester replied that his mindset is to find the scummiest person and lynch them regardless of the unconventional setup.

So what do you mean when you say that Jester's method works pretty well for him? Are you saying that he's good at being scummy?

Whether or not Jester is intentionally townhunting and looking at the big picture, he is trying to sort everyone, which is really the end result of my method as well, rather than just one or two people, like some other players are focusing on. His method is also to post exactly what he's thinking in classical obvtown fashion. I don't know if I'd call him obvtown, but the openness is towny. (This openness is in contrast to my more controlled manner which works for me.)

Pistachi0n has purposely not shared a lot of her thoughts. People seem to be attacking her for it, but I think that if anything, it's towny.

pistachi0n's activity is incredibly anti-town. I'm putting my vote off her because there is a possibility in my mind that she is a VI, not that she has done anything townie. Lurking is far more of a scum-motivated logic than a town-motivated logic.

Why is lurking scum-motivated in this setup?

[Something_Smart]

Because, clearly, pistachi0n is getting by easier than if she were posting more

This setup would change that because scum have much more motivation to appear town than usual.

[Something_Smart]

Spoiler: click me

Jester seems off. The whole "should I say if I am shot" thing seems like he wants town cred. It was phrased as "Hey guys, im town. If i get shot do I claim" which doesnt sit well with me
VOTE: Jester

This is a very easy and surface-level accusation to make.

Jester, I have no opinion on the two so far as they havent posted enough to get a read on

Fair enough.

Hmm alright. I tru to look.for intwnt of post rather than content. I am a gut feel player. Also I play better as scum, but that was before. Havent played in a year, so i am.not sure

Not only is this obvious, it seems to contradict his reasoning in 25, where he attacks the content of Jester's post without really thinking about if somebody would actually do that for towncred.

So does anybody know each other? What can you tell me about present players?

Here, I have only played with RachMarie to my knowledge. I am not able to note any of her alignment tells as her playstyle to me is similar for both town or scum

Fair enough.

Also how is Jester at L-1 already.

Unvote

This is mostly fine, though IME it's more likely for scum to unvote when their wagon reaches L-1, whereas town want to create some pressure.

I dont like an NL. It gives town too little information to work off for the next day. Plus in this set up, theres a higher likelihood to hit scum, since theres 4 of them compared to three towns. In fact, if both scum mess up, we may still have nobody dead. No to NL

Also, Korts do you expect us to believe that Jester would have hammered with shottys pressure

Awkward reasoning, as it ignores the capability of both scumteams to scumhunt with their kills, and also indicates that he doesn't have strong reads.

Well I'm back.

Yeah, there were a lot of varibles that I missed. I was imagining scum teaming up (especially Day 2) but didn't consider fake scum claims which could really mess everyone up. But if the scum teams do successfully team up, that means that we lose for sure if they can both win together.

Yeah, i highly doubt scum wouldn't just shoot each other in this scenario

Oh but now he can suddenly think about scum shooting each other.

If they can both win, why not?

LOL, the only thing saving this town are the possibilities of fake scum claims.

Also,
UNVOTE: pistachi0n

Good night all.

Im wondering why you unvoted after not providing any pressure on your vote.

VOTE: Sloppy Joe

Plus, the if they can both win thing seems like you're bating a response from one of the scum factions. Wanna work with them together?

Heyyy, guess who else unvoted after not providing any pressure on their vote? Another weak point being used to push someone.

In reality of scum decide to go on a rampage and lynch town together, nothing stops them from betraying each other when they lynch a townie and start nightkilling each other. Then the mafIa role blockers play a guessing game on who kills who to try to prevent an NK. Only way to tie is for both Mafia Roleblockers die. Unlikely. Scum will never work together

I don't like this. It never crossed my mind that scum would work together, and I don't like the way he's talking about scum roleblockers and guessing games as if he'd be part of that.

My internet is bad. This is a prod dodge. Will post when my ISP fixes their shit

My belated apologies.

Okay. So here's what I've got.

First of all, I noticed that townies and scum are playing a different game here. Whereas scum are playing sort of a normal game of mafia (hunting 2 scum out of 5 players), town are playing something like Jungle of Bullshit; the majority of other players are scum, and we need to find those two precious townies out of six. However, as has been said before, the scum need to find the other scumteam and that's more important than identifying townies.

So here's my tell: players who play this like a standard mafia game and focus primarily on identifying scum (rather than identifying town) are most likely scum themselves, whereas players who express confusion at the setup and try harder to find townies are more likely to be town.

With that in mind, here are my reads:

Towniest

The_Jester: This townread comes both from my tell and from the feel I get from his posts, which is kind of an invulnerable feel; he's not afraid to post what he thinks and post a lot, which is a towntell that carries over from a standard mafia game, amplified by the fact that scum are more afraid of dying at night than town. As for my tell, The_Jester is not needlessly throwing out reads, but is asking questions and trying to figure out what the heck is going on.

RachMarie: The second town is a tossup right now between pistachi0n and RachMarie, with a chance for SloppyJoe as well. RachMarie does seem to be showing the town side of the tell in 130, but what she says is so blunt that it could be her forcing herself into a different mindset, rather than that mindset just coming naturally. Her early posts (30 and 32) are similar; they do show a mindset but they are very obvious with that mindset, rather than it just being there and being the driving force behind her posts, that makes me less confident on her.

pistachi0n: I haven't heard enough from pistachi0n to make a solid read. That in itself slightly implies that she's town, but it could be that she's afraid of being killed (which scum are). She is searching for townreads (127) but also for scumreads (68, 110) so like RachMarie, I can't really lump her in either category.

SloppyJoe: Shotty made a fairly scummy entrance, voting a scumread without really thinking about the setup. At first glance I didn't like Joe's posting (his complete backtrack from 73 to 79, his weird teaming theory that sounds super scum motivated, and how he misread 1-shot BP as 1-shot vig), but given that he's new, I'll need to see more and he has made some good points. I liked how he pointed out that Jester is enjoying his role (and a cursory meta of a couple games confirms that Jester does enjoy town more), and his early townread of me seemed towny, and not just because it was right ( ).

Korts: The only thing that makes me nervous about these two reads is that they're both on people who haven't played in a while and are just coming back. But while Korts is so concerned with the numbers of the setup (showing he is aware of its strangeness), he doesn't seem to townhunt at all.

DoctorPepper: Similar to Korts. Immediately jumping to find scum but doesn't try to find town even after he is aware of the setup.

Scummiest

I find it weird that expressing confusion over the setup is a town tell when it could easily be a dumb tell. Why does this make people town?
Second, im your primary scum read for looking for scum. Why am I not your vote, youre still on Korts.
Third, townhunting just gives scum a nightkill target they can try to coordinate. Why not just hunt for scum now to get a scum lynch, and then get the scum to night kill each other. I believe in town hunting, I dont believe in revealing it now

I responded to this already.

@Doctor Pepper Why do you think The_Jester seemed off?

Posting felt like he was trying to seem town, like his posts were structured to seem likw he was scumhunting and making newbie tells. Normally thats a scum tell for me.

I think I responded to this too, in any event it's a really weak and easily faked argument.

@Pepper when you return, I expect you to re-evaluate your stance on Joe in the light of his recent activity.

The push on pistachion had weird timing. While its true that putting someone to L-1 so early is scummy, his predecessor did the same thing early in game when shotty was playing. As such, he is using his own scum tell against him. Unless he concedes that town can do the same since his predecessor did the same.

His oush in pistachion is weird because he could have pushed earlier if he felt pistachion was scummy and only chose to do so when voted by them. Furthermore. The insistence of "if youre townie, putting another townie to L-1 is anti town" assumes that both of them could be town. This set up has scum having an incentive to scumhunt as well. Why cant scum pistach target other scum joe. Or town pistach being convinced joe is secondary scum.

These are reasonable points I guess.

With the interactions I see today, i kinda wanna go on sloppy. There's a weird vibe I'm getting from his interactions with Korts. Whevener Korts started to question the no lynch attempt, you just kept discrediting him and kept calling it fluff. In reality, only town benefits from a lynch today, because we have 4 scum in Day 1. There is literally a larger chance we're gonna kill scum now. Stop pushing for no lynch, that only helps scum. It can only help town if scum hits scum, but even then, they have a 2/5 chance to hit opposite scum and 3/5 chance to hit town. There's a larger chance they waste their shots and hit town. And when this happens, when we have 7 players, do we keep no lynching until someone dies? We're lynching today, end of discussion.

Also this call for activity is a town cred attempt. You're calling prods for people who posted the day before, where the rules state you have to be inactive for 2-3 days before prodding.
I want to go for Sloppy. He's scum and he's scared.
Also going by Sloppy's pattern, he's gonna vote me. Pistachion voted for him and he switched. Korts questioned him and he went there too. Thats the way he plays

Weak, superficial logic calling for a lynch, very weak accusation of seeking towncred. The last line is antagonistic and discredit-y.

@shos please prod Dr.Pepper. This game is turning into mud.

Actually, now that I think about it you could be linked to Rach. You called me out specifically for inactivity, when Rach and I have had the same amount of posts yet you have no mention of her inactivity.

This is a valid point. According to my calculations, if SloppyJoe is scum, RachMarie is probably his partner.

Im not discrediting, im just saying its likely going to happen

Actually, he is. It's even worse that he's denying it.

Korts makes sense. I waated my time linking Joe to someone when D1 shows nothing. Its useless to make links now simply because we have nothing to work with.

Whats wrong with me Rach? What makes us different

Not true at all. Maybe he just doesn't want people to make links between him and his partner.

Also this call for activity is a town cred attempt.

Agreed.

So now wanting more activity is "trying too hard to appear town." Gotcha.

@pistachi0n: Ok. Keep being irrelevant for all I care.

It was unnecessary. Check post history and you will find that I was not due for a prod yet. Clamoring for activity is basically 'Look at me, I'm doing town things'. Activity =/= content, and activity=/=townie.

Ewwwwwwwww.

SS--what leads you to believe the game will be decided on Day 2?

The mechanics of this game prevent such a small game from being decided too quickly. Odds are good that a scum will get shot.

I still want to lynch Sloppy Joe.

I feel like Pistachion is coasting. The only content coming from her is recycled previous content. Out fo everything happening in the game this is all we get. Why do you want a joe lynch? What is your stance on pretty much anyone else. Theres more scum than town, surely your only scum read isn't joe.

At least she's not pushing on everything to see what sticks, like he is.

[There's not a lot of content for me to work with.] -This is the definition of hypocrisy.

I can actually agree with you on this. It's our job as town to look for your own analysis, not react when something already happened.

Huh? The town's job is to find the scum and get them dead, regardless of what kind of analysis they need to use to get there.

^ weren't you just criticizing me for discrediting joe? Now youre doing the sane to me?

Uhhh...no?

I just mean that Rach told us she isnt feeling good about my slot, whereas I fail to see why our contributions and our standing in the game are so different. In a way, its "If you think Im scummy, what about you?"

Good point. You're both scum.

I think I kinda explained why I havent been as active, I posted the same notice in my other game as well

Fair enough.

I'm not implying its okay. I merely said people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Its not like i don't post anything of quality like pistachion

Yeah, pistachi0n's posts don't have crap quality like yours do.

Stach really needs to post and claim

Intent to hammer has been made.

I understand low activity, after all I have not been active due to having a project at work on deadline,

Basically my read on DP to clarify, is that he is kind of apathetic which is not usual for him, Its not the number of posts, its the tenor of those posts. It boils down to more of a lean scum, especially since I know that there are more scum in this setup, I am going to hold my town reads to a much higher standard.

Basically guilty until proven innocent instead of innocent until proven guilty type of stance.

I hope that clarifies my position more.

I just came back lol, first time playing again.

Anyway, isn't the claim unnecessary with the intent to hammer, since she probably wont claim scum if she is, she has 1 claim, BP townie.

Thank you, Captain Obvious.

Does anyone have any meta read on pistachion liking town or scum? I feel like this game she has been completely uninterested

Fair enough.

Ok so the reason I'm having trouble pushing my reads and making cases is that this is not a normal game at all. RachMarie described the difference as "guilty until proven innocent", and that's pretty close to how I see it, although not exactly.

Basically, I'm forming reads based on the mindset people are showing me. DoctorPepper and Korts both show a clear mindset to look at individual people and sort out the scummiest ones. As I explained, this is a scum mindset.
SloppyJoe seems to be looking at the bigger picture, trying to figure out the whole game instead of individual people, and he's probably my most confident pick for the second town at this point.
Pistachi0n has purposely not shared a lot of her thoughts. People seem to be attacking her for it, but I think that if anything, it's towny.

Now I think VCA can do a lot this game, as scum would at the very least be hesitant to bus. I would also expect scumpartners to avoid associating if possible.
So I suspect that one of <pistachi0n, SloppyJoe> is town, although it's very hard to tell who people are defending in their posts because there's so much to attack. If one of them is scum, their partner is probably on the other wagon, which makes me feel worse about pistachi0n. But regardless, I don't think a more comprehensive case is necessary. In fact, usually the burden of proof is on the accuser; however, since town in this game are harder to come by than scum, the burden of proof should really be on the defender. I've presented my reasons for why SloppyJoe and pistachi0n are more likely town; now, I'd like the people attacking them to explain why Korts and DoctorPepper are town.

This whole argument of yours fails because many players are more used to scum hunting that town hunting. Set ups don't generally change players play styles. If people are more predisposed to looking for scum than town because the game tells them to, it's not really fair to assume they'd flip the script so easily. This has not been the case in me playing multiballs, town or scum I'd still look for scum first.

Setups don't change playstyles when the setups are like normal games, and that's only true of scum. I suspect that all the town are playing with a modified playstyle. It's necessary for them to adapt to the different game that they are playing, that DoctorPepper clearly isn't.

On that note as well, I find it weird that pistachion not sharing reads is townie behavior, and me or korts looking for scum is scum motivated. Im sensing a connection between both of you

Not surprised that he doesn't understand my logic. It's town logic and that post is reachy and desperate.

To be fair, I missed that. But eh, doesn't really matter when you look at the general case of rampaging bull-like character intent on killing a specific player without a good reason.

You know what, forget this.

pistachi0n MIGHT be town.
Even Korts MIGHT be town (though if he is, his playstyle is terrible and he needs to give up this game for good).

But I don't think DoctorPepper can be town.

VOTE: DP

I preditcted this
You barely engage your reads at all, and when one was at L-1 you backed off. Your play has been weird and i cant see it coming off as townie. You fake apply pressure to anyone, and then back off and apply pressure somewhere else.

D-I-S-C-R-E-D-I-T spells DISCREDIT!

^ what do you think about Something Smart's reasoning behind it and his defense on it

That's a fine question, I suppose.

I prophesy that DoctorPepper will make a typo let's see him prove me wrong.

If anyone should get lycnhed today, its you sloppy

Talk about useless posts.

The logic is flawed. Scum have more motivation to lay low in a setup like this to noboth avoid getting lynched and get killed by scum. By this logic, youre saying the key to win this particular set up is by everyone to just not do anything

I make a lot of typos because I play on my phone, seems like a weird way to discredit me but w/e

Obviously doesn't understand the town motivation in withholding thoughts; even if that's not what pistachi0n is doing, he still can't see the townie viewpoint.

Possibly? I barely log in from my laptop anymore and play on my.phone

Think again Nostradamus

Fair enough.

Ohhh I have a prophecy. Someone will call out Sloppy again and then he'll flip to that person like he did on everyone on his wagon.

See my note to 280.

You have a weird way of discrediting me. 1st sentence was answering why I missed the prod timer. Second sentence was to address your prediction of me flipping scum

Its possible that one of your "town reads" could be scum.
Its failry possible one of yor town reads could be your partner if youre both scum.
Its fairly possible for your wagon to have scum, but scum have an incentive to scum hunt as well.

And see my note to 237.

I think she was referring to my inquiry on pistachion, hence the she.

I think you're just trying to push people to me

And I think this is just casting shade on everyone who attacks him. His reads aren't even clear at this point, he's just calling out anyone who accuses him.

You're going to end the day 2-2-2 if you go for me but w/e

Yuck.

pistachi0n's activity is incredibly anti-town. I'm putting my vote off her because there is a possibility in my mind that she is a VI

This is the most ridiculous reason to stop voting for someone I've ever seen.

I don't see DP as town atm but he's definitely not my primal target. I'd rather lynch pistachi0n or Marie for the time being.

Joe's getting on my nerves with his cockiness cause I don't see the reason for him to be so sure of himself.

Care to go to Joe then?

Reasonable, I guess.

Tbh I can see either pistachion or Rach as scum, but I want Joe. Their lynch gives low info. Unlike Joe.

Also, this maybe because I'm Facebook friends with Rach, but I see her as kinda busy, plus she is kinda like this when she posts as I saw in previous games

I disagree. All lynches give info.

Korts, is this a strong enough case for you? DoctorPepper has committed classic scumtells and setup-specific scumtells, and done very few town-indicative things.

[Something_Smart]

I think it's her or Joe. And I'm really unnerved by your utter lack of interaction with Joe, so I think she might be the other town. In any event, I'm much more confident on DoctorPepper.

[Something_Smart]

DoctorPepper, why is Korts town?
Rach, are you opposed to lynching DoctorPepper? What about SloppyJoe? (With 4 scum you surely should be confident on at least 2 scumreads by now.)

[Something_Smart]

Okay, so Korts/DoctorPepper is 100% one scumteam. Other team, it's your own loss if you don't believe me.
Among the other four, the team that makes the most sense is RachMarie/SloppyJoe. I'm not as confident on this one because SloppyJoe has been acting reasonably towny, but I think the fact that nobody (except me) has stepped up to pistachi0n's defense indicates that she's town.

Annoyingly, if all four scum want to force through a wagon, they can do so, so I ultimately can't stop pistachi0n's lynch altogether (though Jester unvoting would help, and voting SloppyJoe would be even better). But if this setup is any good at all, then town should be able to win if they catch all the scum; otherwise, it's not really Mafia. I think (hope) that the scum's best play is to cross-target and hope the other team doesn't.

[Something_Smart]

How can you read 341 as anything other than an admission of partnership with DP?

[Something_Smart]

I think it's indicative of her town play. It's very easy to fake a clear direction as scum; unless random play shows actual scum motivation, it's slightly town indicative.

On the other hand, it's also a great thing for opportunistic scum to push on.

[Something_Smart]

Pistachi0n is probably town because she isn't trying to steer the lynch in any clear direction (like she does as scum) and because of the way she was pushed without anyone (sans me) coming to her defense. If she is scum, then the teams are likely DoctorPepper/pistachi0n and SloppyJoe/RachMarie.

RachMarie is probably scum because if she is town then there is no logical partner for SloppyJoe, and because of PoE and I haven't liked her push on pistachi0n.

[Something_Smart]

After careful consideration I have reduced that number to 99% on the basis of my own fallibility.
Anyway, I would be inclined to vote RachMarie. Not pistachi0n.

[Something_Smart]

VOTE: RachMarie

[Something_Smart]

Ok, I'm pretty sure we NL today.
The_Jester and I have been pretty universal townreads. It's hard to see team A shooting outside of <pistachi0n, SloppyJoe>, meaning we have this:
<The_Jester, Something_Smart> = Townies with vest
<Korts, pistachi0n, SloppyJoe> = <Goon A, goon B, townie without vest> in some permutation.

So that means that, assuming that Jester and I are both town, the A goon knows who the B goon is, and the B goon has the A goon down to one of two. It's in both scum's interest to shoot, because their best chance to win lies in trying to kill the other scum and hoping that the other scum screws up. Either both scum crosskill, and we win, or goon A crosskills and goon B misses, leaving me, Jester, and them alive, and we win again.

[Something_Smart]

I mean, if you were just going by the logic that you know you're town, as opposed to saying that

the town

knows you're town, I think you would have a better case. But this just sounds like you think you

look

town, and you're trying to sell that idea.

Well... I haven't sold anything, it's a fact. I've received little to no pressure this game, and the pressure I did receive was from DoctorPepper after I correctly identified him as scum.

VOTE: Something_Smart

On consideration, I think we should lynch today.

Of course, because under my plan you lose.

We are at 3:1:1 now, with two vests intact, maybe even three if there was a successful roleblock.

You're not even making sense here. There was no successful roleblock, you knew it in 381, and I don't know why you would even say this if you believed what you said at all.

We can No Lynch and see what happens, or be proactive and risk 2:1:1 going into night. But I don't think 2:1:1 is dangerous to town - Day 3 will most likely end up in 2:1 MYLO, but that is not any worse than the 3:1 we can achieve with a No Lynch.

In the same post you call me scum and ignore the scenario where I am scum. You want to lynch (me), yet you talk about what happens when I flip town. And in fact, the reason I don't want to lynch is that I'm afraid of lynching scum. If we NL, we will most likely achieve 2:1 (or we will win). But if we lynch scum, we end up in 3:1 without an extra mislynch, and two possible scum candidates.

Not surprised that Korts isn't considering this.

However, now that I think about it, I would actually be open to lynching in <SloppyJoe, pistachi0n>, because if they flip town then the two scum will certainly crosskill, and if they flip scum then we just lynch Korts the next day (and we don't need that lost mislynch).

Also I'm just now parsing this:

It's hard to see team A shooting outside of <pistachi0n, SloppyJoe>,

If you're going to call me scum, have the grace to call me by name.

I was trying to emphasize that my plan works independent of the assumption that you are scum, which others don't necessarily share.

So yeah, after thinking a little more, I would be ok lynching SloppyJoe or pistachi0n (as long as you all agree that Korts is definitely scum), or no lynching (which does not require that assumption to win).

[Something_Smart]

I've received little to no pressure this game, and the pressure I did receive was from DoctorPepper after I correctly identified him as scum.

The DP read means jackshit based on your own approach to this setup, and no pressure does not mean town. And you're sidestepping the meat of your slip, which is that you based your entire argument around your

appearance

of being town rather than a personal knowledge of your alignment.

"I know I'm town"

vs.

"I know you guys think I'm town"

My argument is based around the assumption that no scum would shoot me or Jester. Because we were widely townread.

We can No Lynch and see what happens, or be proactive and risk 2:1:1 going into night. But I don't think 2:1:1 is dangerous to town - Day 3 will most likely end up in 2:1 MYLO, but that is not any worse than the 3:1 we can achieve with a No Lynch.

In the same post you call me scum and ignore the scenario where I am scum. You want to lynch (me), yet you talk about what happens when I flip town.

Do you not understand the verb "risk?" I was considering the worst case outcome of a lynch today, regardless of who we lynch.

You were considering the outcome that you're hoping for. It's not a foregone conclusion that lynching scum is better.

If we NL, we will most likely achieve 2:1 (or we will win).

I dispute this. I do not have the patience to start calculating percentages (maybe later), but 3:1 seems the most likely Day 3 after a No Lynch today.

Not if me and Jester are universally taken off the table as possible scum.

Also,

(as long as you all agree that Korts is definitely scum)

This is not the first time you positioned your opinion as consensus.

Nor am I trying to. My point is, if the other townies want to lynch today, I would be up for that, as long as they agree with me on this. If they don't (really if Jester doesn't), I would also support NL.

[Something_Smart]

Keep in mind all this is based solely on interactions/PoE. I'll ISO everybody once again to see what I missed.

For the time being, my reads are (for clarity):

SomethingSmart ---> pistachi0n ---> SloppyJoe (scum B) / Korts (scum A)

Lemme know what y'all think about this.

100% agree. (This was, in fact, what I thought yesterday, but nobody seemed to care.) The only thing that worries me is the question of why Korts/DoctorPepper didn't shoot SloppyJoe, but I still think SloppyJoe is likely the B goon.

Just wanted to add: if we do decide to lynch somebody, it should be our predicted scum A because it knows which townie (if any) has the vest taken off and scum B doesn't.

100% disagree. Going by my assumption that no team would shoot me or you, if we lynch scum and the BP-less townie dies, that makes things simpler for us. I think we should be lynching the person we are less confident in, and I am super confident in Korts being scum, so I would rather lynch in <Joe, pistachi0n>. If we lynch Korts, then the scum will shoot one of us and we would have to choose right between them or else lose.

[Something_Smart]

Regarding pistachi0n, that is a gross misrepresentation of her play.

However, that's a good point that scum might shoot townies and press their luck. However, I think town has a good shot in 2-1-1 if the 2 are me and Jester.
VOTE: SloppyJoe
I think this is best. If he flips town, then the scum are pistachi0n and Korts and at least one of them will definitely crosskill.

[Something_Smart]

How?

[Something_Smart]

Worst case senerio, I haven't lost my vest yet. One scum shoots the town that did, the other shoots scum.

Now that I think about it, it's pretty unlikely but what is likely is us reaching a 2-1-1 where one townie (or both) lost his/her vest and we can no longer even afford to shoot scum. But the main point I'm trying to make is that with your plan, you're placing the strategies and plans right into the scums' hands. We can't afford to shoot anyone we're not very certain of.

This would require both scum seeing either me or Jester as a potential member of the other team, and given the interactions that's quite unlikely.

And if you don't want to put strategies into scum's hands, you shouldn't have joined a game that's 57% scum. This setup is designed around forcing crosskills. If you're town, you almost certainly lost your vest last night, and your lynch should lead to a town win. In multiball, weird strategies sometimes become right, including self-voting and intentionally lynching townies. (That said, lynching the scum in you/pistachi0n would also be an effective strategy.)

[Something_Smart]

Korts is scum, but it's wrong to lynch him today.

Lynching him today forces me and Jester to decide between pistachi0n and SloppyJoe, and if I had to choose right now, I'd pick SloppyJoe.

So SloppyJoe, if you're town, you had better unvote.

[Something_Smart]

Because I think she's unlikely to be scum.

[Something_Smart]

Well, Korts is obviously DoctorPepper's scumbuddy.

But that's beside the point.

[Something_Smart]

Not today. We need to account for the possibility that you are scum, this means lynching you or SloppyJoe today.

[Something_Smart]

^Says the one not voting him to the one voting him.

VOTE: pistachi0n

[Lynching him today forces me and Jester to decide between pistachi0n and SloppyJoe, and if I had to choose right now, I'd pick SloppyJoe.]

I'm not sure why you're saying this when Korts as scum has basically confirmed me as town.

Sorry, I missed that tommorrow was a MyLo.

Wait, I just noticed this. How does Korts scum confirm you as town?

[Something_Smart]

pistachi0n, if you're town, please replace out.

Why? (And what universe where pistachi0n is town makes sense?)

Also, answer my previous question.

[Something_Smart]

@SloppyJoe:
It's pretty clear that Korts doesn't want to lynch you. However, your logic only makes sense from the perspective that you are town. Suppose Korts shot pistachi0n last night and honestly believes me and Jester to be town (which I believe he does). Given the general bad feelings toward him, he needs to keep you alive and he needs you to shoot pistachi0n, so he goes after me.

I also don't see how you can say that pistachi0n's posts have no content. That's blatantly false.

@Jester:
Are you confident that it's not me? Because if we lynch Joe and he flips town, at least one of pistachi0n/Korts will crosskill for sure, giving us the win.

[Something_Smart]

Guys, hey, I'm still here. I get that I'm the play here, for better or worse, but can you stop repeating how I'm absolutely for sure scum? It's just mean at this point. (It's also not actually the case, but you're only going to find that out when it's too late. It's a testament to my efforts that even scum genuinely believe that I'm scum.)

And any thought of keeping me alive today despite your absolute conviction that I am scum is a very strong indication that you either do not have the town's best interests at heart, or you just don't know what those interests are. I do not want to be mislynched at MYLO, and that is what's going to happen if I get to Day 3.

I see what you mean, and it does sound like it would be tough as either alignment. Though as I've thoroughly explained, given the strength of my read on you it is in the town's best interest to keep you alive today. (Don't blame me, this is a quirk of multiball.) If you really are town, the only thing I would suggest is to try to be as obvtown as possible; drop the analytical pretense and post exactly what you're thinking as often as you can.

How does it make sense for scum!Korts to shoot pistachi0n over me?

Scum are so used to faking cases to push mislynches, that it could be that the Korts/DoctorPepper team was pushing you while not believing that you were scum. It's very hard to analyze why a given scumteam shot a certain way; I saw a multiball game go into night at 1:1:2, and one of the teams aimed for town, even though that's a stupid play. (Ironically, they hit scum.) The interactions between you and Rach make so much more sense that the main reason I can even see pistachi0n as scum is because I would have expected the other team to shoot you over her. However, I still believe that lynching either one of you will win for town regardless of the flip.

@Jester:
Are you confident that it's not me? Because if we lynch Joe and he flips town, at least one of pistachi0n/Korts will crosskill for sure, giving us the win.

Are you so confident cause you're obvtown or you just want to buddy me? I honestly can't tell anymore. I'm coming up with scenarios that make me very paranoid. This game is so tiring.

I mean, I think I've been pretty obvtown and I want to form a townbloc with you. For what it's worth, I can assure you that I would not bus my roleblocker while hard defending two non-buddies, and I guess you can just remember that my vote and voice were critical in shifting the lynch from pistachi0n to RachMarie. (In fact, in my most recent scumgame, I hard defended my roleblocker to the point of getting myself vigged when he flipped scum.)

[Something_Smart]

Honestly I'd just like to hammer Korts. Seeing him flip scum would calm me down greatly.

But then we'd be in MYLO without a clear scum. Do you see my logic for lynching the less confident ones first?

[Something_Smart]

I guess now is a good time to explain this.

So, Korts is definitely scum and Jester is definitely town. Worst case scenario, we lynch SloppyJoe and he flips town, and one of us is somehow killed overnight, leaving us in a 1v1v1 with both scum known.

If that townie is you, Jester, here's what you need to say:
"I know you both could get a draw by voting me. However, I promise that whoever votes me first, I will immediately vote, allowing the other scum to win. Therefore, it's in both of your best interests not to vote me, and instead to vote no lynch. Then you'll be in a Prisoner's Dilemma where your best chance to win is to shoot the other and hope the other shoots me."

[Something_Smart]

We'll put it this way: if it fails, blame the mod. (Unless Jester is scum, of course.) If this plan doesn't work, then we can conclude that the setup is not viable.
Even if you could see me pulling an elaborate tactic with Rach as my partner, think of how much easier it could have been for me to hammer pistachi0n, or you, when I had the chance.
There's really not much more I can do here. If you aren't confident enough in my plan succeeding, then make a case convincing enough to score another vote on pistachi0n.

[Something_Smart]

I mean, if you're town, then you're admitting that you and I did a similar thing while pistachi0n did something different, which should make you feel better about my alignment, if that's your concern.

If your concern is that Korts might be town, look at how he and DoctorPepper defended each other.

[Something_Smart]

In a vacuum you're probably townier that pistachi0n, yes, but it's the associations with Rach that make me think you're her partner.

However, I'm reasonably confident that we'll win even if you are town.

[Something_Smart]

Either selfhammer, or convince somebody else to vote pistachi0n. We're getting nowhere fast.

[Something_Smart]

@Korts: How can you see a DoctorPepper/pistachi0n team shooting anyone besides SloppyJoe?

[Something_Smart]

So you agree with that statement?

[Something_Smart]

That's a reasonable answer.
Can you explain your read progression on DoctorPepper throughout Day 1?

[Something_Smart]

I'm sure you already did, but I don't care to find it - can you explain why a DP/stach team would have tried to kill Joe?

I did not pay much attention to DP Day 1. He was vaguely scummy, but I had nothing concrete, and I had stronger reads to pursue.

Well, they were both scumreading him and pushing his wagon.

Also there was that fluffy PBPA you did on him that only increased my interest in you.

So, there's your readlist in 180:
The_Jester
Something_Smart
RachMarie
pistachi0n
DoctorPepper
SloppyJoe

Soon thereafter you say that "Rach isn't particularly town-like" (228). This seems to imply a healthy townread on me and Jester and a de facto scumread on everyone else, including DoctorPepper. You disagreed with my method, the one I used to call you and DoctorPepper scum, but never discussed how you thought it happened to be correct on DoctorPepper.

By 318, those two townreads still don't seem to have changed, yet you don't seem keen to lynch Rach or DoctorPepper. DoctorPepper, in particular, has suddenly become your third-strongest townread, your go-to townread if one of your other two is wrong.

After my case, you feel even better about your DoctorPepper read. Why? I can see two possible reasons:

1. My case was so weak that it actually provided stronger reasoning for why he was town. This was what your post (341) seemed to imply, although it's patently ridiculous.
2. My case was so weak that you thought that I was more likely to be scum because I made it. This is the only excuse that makes any sense, except you never said anything about that in 341. In fact, you seem to go to significant length to discredit the case without actually calling me scum for it.

So my question is, why would you be ignoring any player in a 7p game, and how did your read change so firmly on a player you did not pay much attention to (especially given that you already apparently had two decent townreads)?

[Something_Smart]

Korts: SS you should vote me
SS: No I won't, because I think you're scum
Lmao multiball is so weird

Anyway...

Regarding the "why wouldn't they shoot SJ" argument, I already conceded that you had a fair point.

And what did I forget in saying DP was your third-towniest read? He was. That's like saying that if I have some ice cubes at various temperatures, then I can't call the one at the highest temperature the hottest because it's not hot.

Regarding 509, first of all, you pretty much did ignore him. Second of all, are your reads zero-sum (every read change has to be balanced by an equivalent change in the opposite direction)? If not, why not?

Finally, why are you being rude to me and trying to assign an ulterior motive to everything I do while you are townreading me?

[Something_Smart]

@Mod: I'll be V/LA from Friday to Tuesday.

I'll still have mobile access though, so no worries.

Noted.
-Shos

[Something_Smart]

Waiting on me to do what?

[Something_Smart]

Fair enough.
Intent to hammer.

[Something_Smart]

I was waiting for you to say anything you wanted to say.
Since that seems to be nothing:
VOTE: pistachi0n
@Jester: don't forget 482.

[Something_Smart]

Well then.

[Something_Smart]

SS why did you hammer?

I had already said that I wanted to lynch SloppyJoe or pistachi0n, and pistachi0n didn't have anything more she wanted to say.

[Something_Smart]

Say what?

[Something_Smart]

So assuming both scum remembered about submitting the nk targets, mafia can eliminate town completely tonight, which sucks.

Which is why NL isn't an option.

I don't follow this.

[Something_Smart]

There's only one scum left.

[Something_Smart]

Lol. I'm leaning Korts for the last scum, but I'll take a closer look after my V/LA.

[Something_Smart]

Oh yeah dammit I keep forgetting that he hammered Rach at deadline.
Sigh.

[Something_Smart]

So...

[Something_Smart]

Because we clearly needed 28 days to solve this.

[Something_Smart]

Not hammering

[Something_Smart]

I mean, if either of you want to make a full-blown case, I'll listen to it.
I'll make a final decision when I come back from my V/LA.

[Something_Smart]

Ugh I don't think more reading and agonizing will do me any good and it probably won't change my mind anyway.
Intent to hammer Joe.

[Something_Smart]

Yeah, I don't think I'm going to change my mind.
Hoping this is right.
VOTE: SloppyJoe

[Something_Smart]

Oh my god shos, not the time for trolling
Anyway, GG!

I apologize to Korts for being so confident in that
I did acknowledge that your play might have been because you returned from a break from playing, but still, my arrogance nearly wrecked us. (If we had lynched SloppyJoe, it would have.) Anyway, your self vote was clever, but I think you saved the game by voting pistachi0n when you did.

And SloppyJoe, you did a really good job. It was difficult to edge your way into a town this small and this strong, and you came pretty close.

[Something_Smart]

No, I disagree. Korts being lynched would have possibly been good for town (though I never would have let it happen). In multiball setups, particularly this small, there is merit in intentionally leaving two scum alive in order for them to crosskill.