Micro 645: Hot Fuzz Mafia: Defend Sandford! (GAME OVER!)

[TierShift]

tldr

VOTE: shos

ez gg

[TierShift]

Jester.

[TierShift]

VOTE: guilty lion

build this wagon with me

for glory

for the friendly neighbourhood alliance or something

let's go

[TierShift]

for?

[TierShift]

Nah. Let's vote the guy who townreads for nothing instead.

[TierShift]

the guys who haven't posted are scum yes clap clap

now vote with me

[TierShift]

A justified L-2 wagon on page 2.

I am satisfied.

[TierShift]

Nah. Let's vote the guy who townreads for nothing instead.

why do you say it was nothing

Early game banter is not alignment-indicative, obviously.

also TierShift I'd like to hear your read on Davsto please and thank you

Null

[TierShift]

What was the original townread for, gl?

[TierShift]

Tells like these are mediocre at best

[TierShift]

Agreed, but that was not the kind of tells I was referring to.

[TierShift]

Tells in a vacuum

You catch scum by how they respond to things in context. There is nothing to respond to and no context. Tells that disregard that do not work.

Come join me on the guy that actually townread davsto for his opening.

[TierShift]

Dh deserves some votes too, actually.

Sad that I just own one.

[TierShift]

Sigh

[TierShift]

What was the original townread for, gl?

very loose idea that he wouldn't post twice before finally RVS voting in a third post as scum

but mostly just for discussion to see who would discredit it

You called it tone before. Is that the same, or what? Explain.

[TierShift]

Eh I guess I'd rather L-1 DH

VOTE: deceptively honest

[TierShift]

Pretty sure GL is town here btw

[TierShift]

Tier what is your reasoning for that?

The examination of blackstar that I did not care to look at earlier. I like that.

[TierShift]

DH tell me why you voted creature over GL

[TierShift]

That is not my question

[TierShift]

Not an answer to it, at least

[TierShift]

Well that isn't what your posts say

[TierShift]

What mhsmith's posts say, whatever. Get your asses on the same wavelength

[TierShift]

also I am fine with Creature's posting

VOTE: Blackstar

What about his posting do you like? The empty ISO? The empty town read of all active posters? The lack of substantive interest in the Davsto/you discussion?

I find GL's seemingly empty town read of Creature strange, but I think I'd rather flip creature first before looking for who his buddy could be, though GL certainly would be high on the list in that world (if Creature flips red, I'd think that his buddy is one of the actives he's dumping a collective town read on, probably GL or Davsto).

VOTE: creature

These are my posts dealing w creature or GL. It is EXTREMELY obvious creature was my stronger scum read. I voted creature because he was my stronger read and explained why he was my stronger read. Literally nothing here should be remotely unclear.

No it's not. These posts make it seem GL is your stronger scumread. It gives me the feeling that you are scared of voting GL. Town has no reason to be.

I dislike the creature votes.

[TierShift]

And the meta read on creature is absolute bullshit

God trying to get a player scumread over meta without being familiar with their scumgame

[TierShift]

wtf smith you have over 3k posts and are pushing that shitty meta case

Retract that right now

[TierShift]

Hi shos this is what's happening

DH is voting creature for empty ISO over a substantiated scumread in GL
Now they are pushing a crappy meta case to justify their read

Talk to me about them

[TierShift]

also lol shos what's your obsession with VCs

[TierShift]

I wouldn't mind a claim personally

You always point out VCs in your first post

P-edit oh well no more L-1

[TierShift]

What do you mean by 'tier let bbt answer me', shos?

[TierShift]

Don't fucking claim so quickly
let the game run a few hours damn it, lol. I'm still busy as fuck

Lesson #1: rope scummy hydras asap

[TierShift]

Right BBT how about you explain your reads that'd be nice

[TierShift]

That's an interesting read for someone who basically called for the initial GuiltyLion wagon to happen and has only really had posts criticising him since. Explain?

Because his early townread on you made sense as trying to bait discussion

And I like his scrutiny of blackstar.

What are your reads davsto?

[TierShift]

Dav why townread dh?

Shos why not put your money where your mouth is?

[TierShift]

Then I guess I just do not understand the creature scumread? Before you put forward the meta argument, you tried to fry someone for having an empty iso, by page 3. Explain that.

And no your meta case with only games of one alignment doesn't hold. Are you really this dense?

[TierShift]

Why did you unvote creature? I thought the case was more than just meta?

[TierShift]

I could do that

VOTE: bbt

Also blackstar wagon would work for me

[TierShift]

Thinking about it I could also wagon shos

Get gud son

[TierShift]

I think I prefer BBT atm

[TierShift]

Meh don't think that will do much

[TierShift]

Why not bbt?

[TierShift]

I'm not bouncing between paradigms. I know what I believe. I've already explained this a bunch of times, but I'll do it one more time.

Basing reads off of nothing when the game hasn't really started yet and acting as if those reads are accurate is arrogance and town has no reason to do that, so he has to be scum.

this reasoning really feels contrived to me, but I don't think more of me arguing with Blackstar about it will be productive. I'd like other people to assess whether they buy this or not.

The reasoning is just faulty. Not sure it's alignment indicative. I'm just gonna look where he moves next.

[TierShift]

Why does a joke about lurkers feel townie?

[TierShift]

Sure.

I am uncomfortable with blackstar's vote. Why did you make it?

VOTE: blackstar

[TierShift]

Right BBT how about you explain your reads that'd be nice

How about no?

How about you stop getting cocky immediately after coming out of lurking

[TierShift]

I feel like you are deliberately antagonising me

[TierShift]

I'm still very much non-okay with the timing of blackstar's vote at a point in time where bbt promises activity later that afternoon. And I dislike how blackstar uses that promise to scumread bbt.

[TierShift]

Let's talk.

Sure, let's talk.

The bulk of your scumread on me (or at least, the most posts you quoted from me) comes from the fact that I like GL's examination of blackstar. Blackstar was asking useless questions aimed at discrediting creature, something you somehow seem to disagree with. I like that GL attacked him for it, as I personally missed blackstar's posting and GL looked at it with a critical eye, as any townie should. Not saying you should scumread blackstar for it, but why do you scumread GL, and by extension, me for it?

What is the basis of your scumread on creature? Was the vote on him before serious?

[TierShift]

But it looks like he has since retracted it sooo...

Why does scum!Black unvote?

Because you stop being easy lynchbait

Duh

I'm still very much non-okay with the timing of blackstar's vote at a point in time where bbt promises activity later that afternoon. And I dislike how blackstar uses that promise to scumread bbt.

I dislike how you ignored the multitude of reasons I gave for my vote just so that you could say I'm scummy

Stop acting like I shouldn't single out reasons that are scummy to me. Are you saying I should respond to every point, even the ones I have no problems with?

Bbt, how do you feel about the timing of blackstar's vote?

Dh, what do you currently think about black?

[TierShift]

Of course you don't think your questions were useless. Stop replying to posts that aren't aimed at you.

And stop being whiny about my phrasing. You did use BBT's promise to scumread him and I never said it was your only reason to scumread him, so don't act like I'm lying or twisting your words.

And fuck off with the lynchbait thing. TownBBT could be lynchbait in your eyes and not be after he decides to seriously get into the game. My supposed knowledge of alignments has nothing to do with it as I was evaluating from YOUR perspective.

Stop nitpicking my posts and reply to the content instead of this. And if you think I'm scum have the balls to place a vote.

[TierShift]

I'm not ready for BBT to be hammered. I'm sick of the constant excuses but I want him to explain his reads and see if they make sense.

Shos why are you scumreading BBT so strongly that you want to double vote hammer him?

[TierShift]

@DH on black: it's mainly how his questions do not move the game forward; they are just there to have some questions in-thread, to feign involvement. I've seen this before from him when he was scum where I called him out on it then let the read drop and let him make it to endgame.
That coupled with the timing of the BBT vote makes me want to lynch him.

But I'm kinda putting that read on the backburner in favour of figuring out BBT right now. Especially as I feel that they are not likely scum together.

[TierShift]

Also look at how black is discrediting my read again by suggesting I need to post a case if I want to vote him.

[TierShift]

Shos if you hammer without a claim now I will get you lynched day 2

Not on my watch baby

[TierShift]

I just now realised how shitty doublevoters are because they mess up wagon analysis

My favourite tool

[TierShift]

Oh whatever then it was just a useless passive aggredsive comment

Start doing something tyvm

[TierShift]

There is no way to know if you are a full doublevoter

Anyway using your doublevote will allow a minority lynch which sucks

[TierShift]

Tell me what town interest lies behind any of bbts posting. ANY.

That could be said for a lot of players.
I certainly have reasons for why he is town that will be disclosed after he responds.

Why don't you tell me where the scum intent in his posts lies (outside of the lurking) instead of the lack of town intent.

[TierShift]

I don't see scum!shos claiming double voter.

Have you played against scum shos?

[TierShift]

He gambits the fuck out of any opportunity he gets

The 'no one would ever do that as scum' line of reasoning does not work against shos

[TierShift]

Your strongest scumread up to now is someone whose posts are off? In what way off?

[TierShift]

Try selling me on your preferred wagon

[TierShift]

Well I definitely get a town vibe from his light hearted and flexible posting, I don't get how their posts are off to you. The part below it doesn't explain that.

[TierShift]

Also I feel like shos drew scum

[TierShift]

Because I also feel like you did?

I'll make up my mind later.

Why am I your sole focus?

[TierShift]

You know what light hearted is bbt

[TierShift]

Oh hey shos cant hammer lurker one

Lets go on to lurker number two

Start talking to me

[TierShift]

I'm town reading the shit out of Black.

Let's lynch Creature.

townreading because?

I'm not gonna vote creature because you think his posts are off.

Just join us, for glory

[TierShift]

Will be hitchhiking this weekend. Afterwards I'll do stuff.

[TierShift]

Lol @calling my play subpar

Why don't you tell me why you didn't just hammer bbt back there

[TierShift]

You didnt answer my question shos

[TierShift]

VOTE: shos

[TierShift]

I'm not voting him for not answering my question. I know shos's play very well as town and as scum. As town he is way more reckless and just does what he sees fit, as scum he makes sure everyone sees him as town. I am pretty damn sure town shos would have hammered BBT back then.

His reads are very opportunistic, townreading dh and gl, who are not up for lynch anyway. Of the viable lynch targets, he only opposes black, who should be fairly easy to lynch later on if he is town. He positions himself so he is able to hop on other wagons such as rach, BBT and davsto. That's the kind of play I expect from scumshos.

Why do you think he is town?

[TierShift]

I'm pretty sure you don't give a fuck as town every time. And don't tell me that townreading widely townread players is bad for scum, please.

[TierShift]

Shos talks bullshit shos needs rope

[TierShift]

please notice that shos can save himself by quickhammering if either bbt or creature gain another vote

[TierShift]

Oh yeah and scum day 1 doublevoter is so impossible because?

Let me flavour game here and say the cop buddy (was it danny?) votes both with neighbourhood alliance and scum faction because well flavour

How does being a double voter make you town

Davsto that's such shit

[TierShift]

TierShift wasn't much good in the one game I played with him (poor reads much of D1, though he got on the right wagon at EOD

>gets scum lynched by himself day 1
>please

Gl why are tou townreading black?

[TierShift]

'Meh I'll reread him after we lynch shos

[TierShift]

oh yeah you were 100% sure he was town and stopped the lynch good fucking job davsto

I prolly want to lynch rach or BBT

BBT why the hammer

[TierShift]

wow how did I miss post 560

okay

VOTE: rach

L-1

[TierShift]

I'm Simon Skinner, VT.
VOTE: blackstar

It has to be BBT and blackstar, as blackstar-someone else would not go for the fake guilty here.

Mass role and flavourclaim obviously happens today.

I have some considerations to share but I'll wait until after massclaim.

As it's me vs black today black is obviously the one who goes next.

[TierShift]

Black, read my post.

[TierShift]

And BBT follows afterwards, naturally.

[TierShift]

I want you to claim.

[TierShift]

How would you having posted during D2 matter, black?

[TierShift]

Oh yeah of course you would have.

I do not really care about other claim order because BBTs claim is wifom anyway.

I just need creature and GL's claim to finish my setup spec.

[TierShift]

I was asking because you acted like you should have talked because of your role.

Creature I cannot see BBT as town, ever. That's not even because of his play. It's because any team not including BBT would not fake a guilty because BBT would have been autolynch.

[TierShift]

But can you point an example why BBT also must be scum if you're scum?

I know I'm not scum so I'm discounting that possibility.

[TierShift]

what are you talking about?

Well you acted like you having talked mattered. If it was not because of your role, you really had little to say.

I have actual arguments so let's just forget about this.

[TierShift]

Yeah okay you said it might have been important but he kind of rolled with it by answering but it is a tangent.

I asked because I hoped he was messing up his n1 and n2 targets (as evidenced by his typo) and would slip by saying that he would have pushed me hard day 2.

[TierShift]

Actually wow I have a really strong moment of clarity in my head BBTs claim DOES matter.

Bbt if you're town please claim.

[TierShift]

In what respect, creature?

[TierShift]

Google search tells me frank butterman is also in the NWA.

You're thinking scum for the right person though.

I am so psyched for my analysis

Bbt get in here

[TierShift]

Oh that's a pretty good one

That should work as an addition to my setup spec

[TierShift]

I'll share my analysis when I want to share it and not when you want me to.

I want BBT to come in because I'm not 100% sold on him being scum.

[TierShift]

In that case I will just assume he's scum. He knows as well as we do that this is his last chance to redeem himself if he's town.

[TierShift]

Not completely imposible. I will cease to respond until BBT posts or fails to do so.

[TierShift]

Oh wow who would have guessed

[TierShift]

If it's not surprising that you said it then it's you who is stating the obvious. Stop acting like you are actually doing stuff.

[TierShift]

Yeah okay bbt is scum too

[TierShift]

Okay let's talk setup.

First of all, the scum are obviously flavoured nicholas angel and danny butterman.

It is also obvious that all roles immediately come from flavour. The sandford doc is doc, the reverend is priest, and the immensely strong guy can vote twice. If someone is not obviously connected to a PR, they do not receive one.

If a setup is designed in a such way, there is only one possible role for scum: rolecop for either nicholas/danny (prob nicholas), and goon for the other.

Next, we should see that shos and rach should be pseudo masons to each other. Rach KNEW shos was town, but fucked up. It should be clear to shos that rach was town the moment she would cast a hammer vote and it wouldn't work.

So that leaves us with possible setups:
Doc-cop-somewhat weaker masons vs rolecop
Or doc-somewhat weaker masons vs rolecop

The first one allows for a follow the cop strategy WITH pseudo masons which is absolutely ridiculous. The second one makes a lot of sense as it has two hard to kill pseudo masons where scum either needs to get lucky with the kill or need to find the doc early to have a shot at winning. The first one has that balanced game but then ADDS A cop which makes it extremely unbalanced towards town.

The only way a cop-doc-pseudo mason game would be sort of balanced is with a scum RB but I've thought a lot about it and flavour just doesn't allow it.

And if you think mod would not have expected shos and rach to conftown each other you are crazy because priest is obviously connected to the town reverend and a scum full doublevoter is simply not feasible with weakened town voting power.

Therefore full cop is nust not possible in this setup.

This analysis only fails if mod either has created a really unbalanced game or if roles follow from flavour only for town which I consider to be ridiculous assumptions.

[TierShift]

Now, take the perspective of a BBT-black scumteam. All of davsto-tier-GL-creature townread each other to some extent (I believe, show me if I'm wrong) and black has a little town credit. Why would you NOT gambit like this? I know I would definitely do it, as doing it tomorrow leads to distrust and BBT is the obvious lynch anyway.

[TierShift]

Bbt black iso obviously happening at some point but the cards are kinda on the table already

[TierShift]

Creature do you realistically see me as scum with gl or can I just defend myself against being buddies with GL?

And ttm about your considerations gl and creature

[TierShift]

Creature do you realistically see me as scum with gl or can I just defend myself against being buddies with GL?

And ttm about your considerations gl and creature

[TierShift]

Creature do you realistically see me as scum with gl or can I just defend myself against being buddies with GL?

And ttm about your considerations gl and creature

Why are you throwing out the possibility of bbt being your buddy?

I meant buddies with BBT in the latter part

[TierShift]

Gonna say why I'm scum Tier orrrr....

Sigh

[TierShift]

The problem with this logic is that I can't gambit. Every time I try to do anything fancy people see right through me and it doesn't work at all. That's why I don't try to do anything that makes me stand out in my scum games. Besides, if I was scum I would've had no way of knowing that nobody in the game would cc me. I wasn't wide town read, so if someone actually was the cop and they CCed me I definitely would've been lynched. So it sounds be a good move at all for me to gambit as scum

Wow self meta awesome!!

[TierShift]

The logical lymch order was BBT then you so you had to gambit end of story

[TierShift]

You ignored the entire second half of the post because you know that it makes sense

No it does not make sense at all

Because
1. It does NOT make sense for there to be a cop in the game as I showed before

2. If there were a cop living to day 3 you would almost never win the game

3. If there were a cop you would probably want to 1v1 him

So no that is a really weak argument.

[TierShift]

1) how were rach and shos "psuedo masons"
2) why are you acting as if it makes sense for town to have no investagtive PRs at all?
3) why are you assuming that scum definitely have a rolecop? Where'd you get this information?

1. Because they knew the other was town AS EVIDENCED BY THIS GAME
2. Because the setup would be townsided as fuck and you know it
3. Challenge my fucking assumptions if you challenge my outcomes

[TierShift]

Creature can you talk to me

[TierShift]

just shut up everyone knows you're scum anyway

[TierShift]

Sigh why is everyone who is talking in thread scum?

I have no interest in responding to black/BBT anymore as I KNOW they're scum.

Creature and GL why the fuck are you guys not playing

[TierShift]

GuiltyLion can still be scum with TierShift.

I asked you before if you see that option as plausible. Do you?

Look at how BBT and blackstar's posts are geared at convincing me that I'm scum, while they should 'know' I'm scum if they were town.

[TierShift]

Also take a look at how blackstar is certain BBT is my buddy in 698 and in 743 assumes that BBT is someone with a genuine town thought process that leads to black being scum. If black was sure BBT was scum there would be no reason for him to try and examine BBT's thought process. It's like he's trying to work together with BBT who is scum to him.

[TierShift]

okay let me say this once BBT:
YOU AND BLACKSTAR ARE CONFIRMED SCUM TO ME BY VIRTUE OF ME NOT BEING HAMMERED

Now stop pretending you don't know

[TierShift]

Why GuiltyLion is town?

Tier is caught scum. Logically he should be trying to distance his partner so that they won't get lynched tomorrow. The only people he's been talking about are me and bbt, so bbt is probably his partner. And he's been "scumreading" bbt since day 1, but still hasn't committed to trying to get him lyched. He always moves onto other wagons

Yeah this is just lies as I was obviously townreading BBT before that day 1 hammer

[TierShift]

Let Tier talk.

what do you want me to say?

[TierShift]

because he doesn't hammer me?

[TierShift]

Why GuiltyLion is town?

Tier is caught scum. Logically he should be trying to distance his partner so that they won't get lynched tomorrow. The only people he's been talking about are me and bbt, so bbt is probably his partner. And he's been "scumreading" bbt since day 1, but still hasn't committed to trying to get him lyched. He always moves onto other wagons

Yeah this is just lies as

I was obviously townreading BBT before that day 1 hammer

LMAO! That's a blatant lie!

bring it on I just reread my ISO

[TierShift]

Also take a look at how blackstar is certain BBT is my buddy in 698 and in 743 assumes that BBT is someone with a genuine town thought process that leads to black being scum. If black was sure BBT was scum there would be no reason for him to try and examine BBT's thought process. It's like he's trying to work together with BBT who is scum to him.

Nah. I was saying that he didn't make sense. You're grasping at straws now

pedit: if you were town, you would've been hammered a long time ago

Your tone implies that you are satisfied with BBT who you should scumread to death and treat like you're treating me but you aren't doing that at all

No I wouldn't that is bullshit.

[TierShift]

I could do that

VOTE: bbt

Also blackstar wagon would work for me

yeah that's the start of day 1

[TierShift]

okay let me say this once BBT:
YOU AND BLACKSTAR ARE CONFIRMED SCUM TO ME BY VIRTUE OF ME NOT BEING HAMMERED

Now stop pretending you don't know

I mean, sure, that's an easy way to try and explain it.

You're ruling out GL because...? Outside of 'OMG you're conf scum' do you actually have anything to present? You know, to try and actually convince people to vote the way you want them to.

Because GL is not hammering me, stop playing dumb.

Your play speaks for itself.

[TierShift]

I could do that

VOTE: bbt

Also blackstar wagon would work for me

I think I prefer BBT atm

Why not bbt?

Right BBT how about you explain your reads that'd be nice

How about no?

How about you stop getting cocky immediately after coming out of lurking

I feel like you are deliberately antagonising me

Yeah, its obvious that you townread him lol

I said before the hammer not before sharing his reads

[TierShift]

Creature, I was trying to work together with BBT to coordinate a lynch. That strongly implies I townread him. Otherwise I would never ever do that.

[TierShift]

Because townshos is reckless and does what his heart wants him to do immediately. I'd expect him to ask for a claim and if it's not given hammer immediately. He just does what feels right to him and doesn't care if he looks bad.

I saw the opposite this game, but obviously, I was wrong.

[TierShift]

And I said you scumread him day 1. I literally just posted the proof. You said that you "obviously townread him" day 1. its an obvious lie

You said I've been scumreading him since day 1 which is false

Try again

[TierShift]

@Tier why have you ruled out the possibility of creature being scum? You not even considering him to be scum implies that you accept that i'm the cop and that i investigated him

BECAUSE HE IS NOT FUCKING HAMMERING ME

How the fuck can you both play dumb and think you can get away with it

[TierShift]

And I said you scumread him day 1. I literally just posted the proof. You said that you "obviously townread him" day 1. its an obvious lie

You said I've been scumreading him since day 1 which is false

Try again

I just pointed out the posts were you were scum reading him. Try again.

Do you know what since means?

[TierShift]

VOTE: Bluebloodedtoffee

I just did a black/BBT joint ISO. Notice how the timing of black's case is extremely convenient, as it is right before when BBT starts posting. In this way, they can distance by L-1 without a possible lynch. After BBT starts posting, black immediately unvotes and they work together ever since. Without giving reasons for townreading each other. So fucking convenient.

[TierShift]

I was supposed to quote all interaction, but whatever. BBT never gives reasons for his black townread and uses Black's unvote on him to clear him, which obviously does not hold if he's scum.

But it looks like he has since retracted it sooo...

Why does scum!Black unvote?

DH, are you willing to lynch any of Creature, GL or Davsto?

Because the vote on Black is bad.

I'm town reading the shit out of Black.

Let's lynch Creature.

BBT why did you townread black all along? Cos I can't find it

[TierShift]

Oh right missed that black
Rest still stands it's really convenient to scumread him right before the catchup posts

And you already thought black was town befoee that bbt so that doesn't count

[TierShift]

You think it's feasible for a cop to be in this setup? Look at the facts.

Why do you feel black's interaction with BBT is not surface level?

[TierShift]

Also take a look at the ridiculous arguments they are putting forth today for why I'm scum. They are grasping at straws by saying I'm scum for not seeing you and creature as possible scum. You are confirmed town to me and they keep discrediting me for insane reasons.

How can you think black is town? What in particular do you feel is genuine?

[TierShift]

Do you think two confirmable roles plus doctor is enough town power?

Yes absolutely. I can show wiki setups that only have 1 confirmable with a doc.

[TierShift]

I'm just thinking of this now but

As I said before scum have nothing or a rolecop

If there is a town cop there absolutely has to be a rolecop and it's still unbalanced

Then how big is the chance of the cop living to day 3?

[TierShift]

Give me one.

I know I played in one might look for it tonight

[TierShift]

Just keep your mouth shut bbt everyone knows you are scum

If you keep pretending you are town you should realise that you're playing a lost game if you are town because you will get lynched anyway so just shut it

[TierShift]

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Field_Day

[TierShift]

You just scum claimed. This is mylo, so if you were town and we lynched you today then the game would end and there wouldn't be another day. So you saying that bbt is going to get lynched tomorrow is the same as admitting that you're not town

No I'm saying if he's pretending to be town he's gonna be lynched somewhere down the line anyway if it's today or tomorrow

I also did not specify who would be lynched before him, you're acting like I said 'after my lynch' which I didn't.

Which is indeed an ridivulous notion because I know the game ends with my death.

[TierShift]

Actually I played a game with two masons, one town bus driver and one clotildizer (something like public 1-shot cop) and scum were all goons (with the ability to kill masons).

That's a pretty okay setup, but it's not comparable to this one as in this one there is a way to actually protect the kill targets. Bus driver is negative utility and has no synergy with cop.

[TierShift]

Because creature knows the right decision to make but is scared

[TierShift]

What do you think about Black + BBT?

I just can't really see Black as scum when I look at his ISO. And I do think his un CC'd claim validates him, as well. If scum!Blackstar, he's taking a

massive

risk by calling out a fake guilty on town!Tier, because if you or I were PRs that could CC him then the scumteam would be sunk.

How big do you consider the chance of a BBT-black scumteam winning without faking a guilty?

[TierShift]

Gl you somehow decided black was town. I cannot find the reasons for it other than that you think black's posting has been genuine. You just made up your mind and are now fitting the facts to your reads instead of the other way around. There are many ways to explain an alignment-neutral action and you always choose the one that makes me looks worst.

For instance, you somehow connect a possible me-BBT team who are in a good position to BBT voting me as a desperation play. The two are completely independent, with black as scum BBT's action is at least equally likely. With me and BBT in a bad position BBT's action is equally likely. However somehow us being in a good position has to do with BBT voting me and that is confbias playing up.

Same for black claiming a guilty: you are not seeing straight. Of course black is taking a risk, but it is a necessary one. I am pretty sure for myself that black and BBT were highest up my scumlist, and I'm pretty sure they were for creature as well. BBT was the autolynch today, leaving black in a 3p lylo. Do you see him winning that without claiming a guilty? I'm pretty sure town would have found each other in 3p lylo and I for one would have done the same in black's position here.

I'm just asking you to reevaluate and seriously consider the possibility of a black bbt scumteam because I feel you just wrote off black's posting as genuine and with that you wrote off the possibility of a black bbt scumteam.

[TierShift]

Also I'm pretty sad you don't even consider my setup spec. You should also try to see for yourself if it is likely for this game to have a cop.

[TierShift]

Like I understand that you can townread Black from his genuine posting because that's what I thought the last time he was scum

But all the other things you are just bending to fit your reads

[TierShift]

BTW if we don't scumread scum for being dumb we will allow scum to be dumb but that's just a rant for another time.

Why do you feel black's posting has been genuine because I just reread and don't see it at all.

[TierShift]

I reread the things I thought were not genuine such as scumread on creature

[TierShift]

I reread the things I thought were not genuine such as scumread on creature

If I was scum it would've made more sense to just follow what everyone else was saying or drop my scumread on creature quickly. I didn't do either of those things.

I said genuine not smart

[TierShift]

It felt manufactured

[TierShift]

It felt manufactured

How?

In the sense that I got the feeling you didn't really scumread creature, already, back then.

[TierShift]

okay I reread D1

I think it's BBT and Tier. They have a lot of conversation with surface level questions where they ask each other things but don't seem to be actually trying to read eachother (dual ISO them to see this). Also I just feel Blackstar's posting has been fundamentally genuine, and while it is true that Tier aggressively pushed BBT early on, he hopped off the wagon as soon as BlackStar L-1'd BBT and then grilled shos when shos intended to hammer BBT.

Creature, what do you think? I think we should lynch Tier today.

This was actually the post of the game the other one was meh

I dislike when the outcome of a game gets dictated by PRs.

[TierShift]

Also it was a pleasure shos

Also I feel like the setup was unbalanced and should have eithwr included a 1-shot cop or a macho cop

[TierShift]

But good game, I enjoyed playing!