Micro 633: Marvel Dual Universes uPick - Game over!

[lilith2013]

Time to make a clumsy vote...

VOTE: Clumsy

(See what I did there?)

VOTE: XKfyu

Not

again

[lilith2013]

I disagree with Xk and FA wholeheartedly. Switching between games is to our advantage, and part of that is because from my own experience, being scum in one game and knowing who is town lets me compare the two games to each other, and it's not so much about playstyle as it is having more of an idea of their motivations in both games.

That didn't really articulate what I wanted to say, but close enough.

[lilith2013]

Wait you're at epcot today I'm at epcot right now

[lilith2013]

I'm back from disney. I'll actually read this thread and say stuff tomorrow.

[lilith2013]

Wait you're at epcot today I'm at epcot right now

For real lilith? You might say

it's a small wolrd, after all

(ok that's magic kingdom but the pun stands)

If you tell me you're at typhoon lagoon today I'll shit a brick

Lol it was a work thing. If you were there early enough to see everything closed, that was for us

[lilith2013]

VOTE: ircher

[lilith2013]

Lillith, looks like we're scum together again.


Fire, I can understand that you don't have much on Panther, but you don't have a read at all on Xk? They've posted the 3rd most so far.

Want to tell me what game this is your referring too?
Also based on this little statement going to say I am probably wrong about one.

Already was thinking based on the actions of Ircher my reads must be offbased, my reads are rarely aligned with Ircher so it felt weird we agreed on a lot.

Still trying to figure out why.

Also Xky feels slouching this game, he doesn't feel like his normal self to me. I would normally call that scummy, but I think its just circumstances and not anything alignment indicative.

The first dual universe game.

Being inactive isn't alignment indicative and I don't understand why you or Ircher would think it is.

[lilith2013]

Post coming later today.

[lilith2013]

Currently townreading Clumsy and scumreading Ircher's 106 and 107. Overly serious reaction to what is quite obviously a joke by Mcmenno. Also continues to townread Mcmenno afterwards. Usually if I think someone is attacking me for no reason I'd start scumreading or at least pushing them.

[lilith2013]

Also I don't like 125 because it's like Ircher is trying to throw shade at Alabaska for attempting to discuss theory without saying that Alabaska is actually scummy. Theory talk is NAI, but I don't think continuing a theory discussion is scum-motivated necessarily. And Ircher seems to be trying to push that it is, without underlying reasoning.

[lilith2013]

I miss MoI, why didn't he join this game?

[lilith2013]

Clumsy reads as his townself here so far, although that could easily change.

[lilith2013]

So you think TTH is town because of the dialog with Alabaska, but not Alabaska? What's the reason behind it?

Don't like this post.

What don't you like about it?

[lilith2013]

The first dual universe game.

Being inactive isn't alignment indicative and I don't understand why you or Ircher would think it is.

My read on you has nothing to do with activity actually, did you read Ircher posts and believe we had same reasoning?
Your posts and lack of scumhunting are my problems and you jumping on a bad wagon seems like opportunistic.

Seeing as I had about 5 posts when you posted your scumread I don't see how you can rag on a lack of scumhunting without also commenting on my activity?

Bad wagon = 1 vote when I joined ? How is that a wagon? Do you disagree with my reasoning on Ircher?

[lilith2013]

You should be taking issue with Ircher for scumreading both me AND Clumsy and voting a null-townread instead. Instead you are blaming ??? while still townreading Ircher. How does that even make sense?

[lilith2013]

Currently townreading Clumsy and scumreading Ircher's 106 and 107. Overly serious reaction to what is quite obviously a joke by Mcmenno. Also continues to townread Mcmenno afterwards. Usually if I think someone is attacking me for no reason I'd start scumreading or at least pushing them.

Fair enough about reactions, but the other part....

So you are saying that just cuz someone attacks you with poor reasoning means you should immediately OMGUS? The answer is no; we don't deal in absolutes. If it truly were a joke, McMenno wouldn't continue to push it; anyway, intent is the important part, not necessarily the reasoning, and I find McMenno's intent to be town-motivated.

I forgot to respond to this.

How was McMenno showing town motivation by calling you scum for no reason? since you claim this is at least a partly serious push from Mcmenno on you.

[lilith2013]

The first dual universe game.

Being inactive isn't alignment indicative and I don't understand why you or Ircher would think it is.

My read on you has nothing to do with activity actually, did you read Ircher posts and believe we had same reasoning?
Your posts and lack of scumhunting are my problems and you jumping on a bad wagon seems like opportunistic.

Seeing as I had about 5 posts when you posted your scumread I don't see how you can rag on a lack of scumhunting without also commenting on my activity?

Bad wagon = 1 vote when I joined ? How is that a wagon? Do you disagree with my reasoning on Ircher?

[lilith2013]

You should be taking issue with Ircher for scumreading both me AND Clumsy and voting a null-townread instead. Instead you are blaming ??? while still townreading Ircher. How does that even make sense?

Blaming? What do you mean by that.

I believe Ircher is a vanity/possible VI wagon. He gets wagoned literally every game I have ever played with him.
SO you pushing that.
Looks scummy or suspect. He is an easy push for any scum player.

Well you seem to be blaming

someone

for the lack of wagon on me and Clumsy - I don't know who you're trying to blame - but it isn't Ircher, who is the one person who is supposedly scumreading both of the people you think are scum and yet is not voting either of them. And somehow you are still townreading him. For what reason?

[lilith2013]

I don't know Ircher's meta.

There are 3 people on his wagon and one more person possibly scumreading him, that's not "everyone."

[lilith2013]

@fa

I disagree with Xk and FA wholeheartedly. Switching between games is to our advantage, and part of that is because from my own experience, being scum in one game and knowing who is town lets me compare the two games to each other, and it's not so much about playstyle as it is having more of an idea of their motivations in both games.

That didn't really articulate what I wanted to say, but close enough.

this post is pretty iffy to me. I feel like there's something off about the wording but I can't really articulate what

This is literally just theory talk so idk why you have an issue with it

I miss MoI, why didn't he join this game?

there are a bunch of fluffposts like these. lilith, what do you feel like this adds to the game

It doesn't? I tend to post in stream of consciousness, had a thought about MoI being in the previous game, and posted it. Do all my posts have to have content for me to be town?

You should be taking issue with Ircher for scumreading both me AND Clumsy and voting a null-townread instead. Instead you are blaming ??? while still townreading Ircher. How does that even make sense?

here she's deflecting from herself onto Ircher. I agree with the sentiment but tone feels accusatory instead of explanatory; don't like that

Okay

I don't see how I am deflecting, since FA's post was not clearly or specifically accusing me of anything, it was just commenting on the game state in general.

Accusatory tone vs. explanatory? How can I have an explanatory tone when I am questioning someone else's actions? I can't read his mind, of course I can't explain anything about his motivations. I was suspicious of him for complaining about the lack of wagon on his scumreads but then continuing to townread someone who was also scumreading his scumreads but didn't vote either of them.

I don't know Ircher's meta.

There are 3 people on his wagon and one more person possibly scumreading him, that's not "everyone."

not taking responsibility here

Not taking responsibility for what?

My response was, I don't know Ircher's meta and wouldn't know whether FA's words are true. Therefore I am still suspicious of Ircher's behavior. I'm not going to dive into every person's meta if I haven't played with them before.

see, there's a bunch of players that I seem to get a scumread on every game and I can't read them; one of those is ircher. I think I might sort him later

VOTE: lilith

[lilith2013]

I don't know Ircher's meta.

There are 3 people on his wagon and one more person possibly scumreading him, that's not "everyone."

not taking responsibility here

Not taking responsibility for what?

My response was, I don't know Ircher's meta and wouldn't know whether FA's words are true. Therefore I am still suspicious of Ircher's behavior. I'm not going to dive into every person's meta if I haven't played with them before.

Fixed quotes for the last part

[lilith2013]

see, there's a bunch of players that I seem to get a scumread on every game and I can't read them; one of those is ircher. I think I might sort him later

VOTE: lilith

If this is true then why did you push him so hard and scumread him right out of the gate? Shouldn't you have already had this mindset and so approached Ircher without scumreading him for his initial behavior?

[lilith2013]

I am townreading Panther, posting similarly to our newbie together with similar thought processes so far. I also agree with his line of questioning for FA regarding his townread on McMenno and strange lack of interaction between the two slots. Right now I have reason to believe that only one of those slots is scum, though.

[lilith2013]

Right now I have reason to believe that only one of those slots is scum, though.

Spicy.

Gun to head, which?

I would say independently FA; but as a partner for my other scumread he doesn't make that much sense.

[lilith2013]

VOTE: Lillith

Am I still not producing enough content for you?

[lilith2013]

Also Xk you posted the same thing twice?

I agree with it though.

[lilith2013]

You don't pick apart someone's post with reasons why they're scummy and then conclude with a townread.

[lilith2013]

McMenno I would like a response to my posts instead of you posting fluff on page 11 ty

@fa

I disagree with Xk and FA wholeheartedly. Switching between games is to our advantage, and part of that is because from my own experience, being scum in one game and knowing who is town lets me compare the two games to each other, and it's not so much about playstyle as it is having more of an idea of their motivations in both games.

That didn't really articulate what I wanted to say, but close enough.

this post is pretty iffy to me. I feel like there's something off about the wording but I can't really articulate what

This is literally just theory talk so idk why you have an issue with it

I miss MoI, why didn't he join this game?

there are a bunch of fluffposts like these. lilith, what do you feel like this adds to the game

It doesn't? I tend to post in stream of consciousness, had a thought about MoI being in the previous game, and posted it. Do all my posts have to have content for me to be town?

You should be taking issue with Ircher for scumreading both me AND Clumsy and voting a null-townread instead. Instead you are blaming ??? while still townreading Ircher. How does that even make sense?

here she's deflecting from herself onto Ircher. I agree with the sentiment but tone feels accusatory instead of explanatory; don't like that

Okay

I don't see how I am deflecting, since FA's post was not clearly or specifically accusing me of anything, it was just commenting on the game state in general.

Accusatory tone vs. explanatory? How can I have an explanatory tone when I am questioning someone else's actions? I can't read his mind, of course I can't explain anything about his motivations. I was suspicious of him for complaining about the lack of wagon on his scumreads but then continuing to townread someone who was also scumreading his scumreads but didn't vote either of them.

I don't know Ircher's meta.

There are 3 people on his wagon and one more person possibly scumreading him, that's not "everyone."

not taking responsibility here

Not taking responsibility for what?

My response was, I don't know Ircher's meta and wouldn't know whether FA's words are true. Therefore I am still suspicious of Ircher's behavior. I'm not going to dive into every person's meta if I haven't played with them before.

see, there's a bunch of players that I seem to get a scumread on every game and I can't read them; one of those is ircher. I think I might sort him later

VOTE: lilith

I don't know Ircher's meta.

There are 3 people on his wagon and one more person possibly scumreading him, that's not "everyone."

not taking responsibility here

Not taking responsibility for what?

My response was, I don't know Ircher's meta and wouldn't know whether FA's words are true. Therefore I am still suspicious of Ircher's behavior. I'm not going to dive into every person's meta if I haven't played with them before.

Fixed quotes for the last part

see, there's a bunch of players that I seem to get a scumread on every game and I can't read them; one of those is ircher. I think I might sort him later

VOTE: lilith

If this is true then why did you push him so hard and scumread him right out of the gate? Shouldn't you have already had this mindset and so approached Ircher without scumreading him for his initial behavior?

[lilith2013]

Okay you changed one line

[lilith2013]

since i haven't posted in a bit, here is my player spectrum. don't have a ton of time to post tonight so more will come tomorrow.

TOWN

lilith2013 - her posts on mcmenno-ircher are the basis for my reads on them and i can't see her being scum with one of those at the moment.
PantherPunt - recent posting seems very well thought out. doesn't make him town but he has not thrown any scumtells and has contributed to discussion without seeming like he is trying to steer it towards a certain person without reason
Xkfyu - i feel like he is town based on our earlier back and forth and its resolution
Clumsy - not much of a read on him but again his posts are contributing and nothing has stood out.

NULL

TellTaleHeart - has done some pro-town stuff with her posting (same as most of the people above) but our interaction left me with a much worse taste in my mouth. both balance out, feel very unsure

SCUM

Fire Assassin - again, the early no-lynch stuff was weird but not a tell either way. this post feels really weird to me...you should definitely question people's views that agree with your own if those people come to those views for the wrong reason. scum often want to parrot and ride on other wagons that townies start. his interaction with mcmenno who i think is scum the most is interesting when he dismisses mcmenno's behavior because he does it does it as both alignments and this seems like town shitposting but having JUST finished a game with mcmenno where he was town he was nothing like this i have issues with this handwave. however the quick posting of the DC dual is a point in the town direction for me
Ircher - lilith's posts i agree with. not sure if people see what i see there.

NULL pt 2

McMenno - so mcmenno is down here because i have two wildly different interpretations for his behavior and i won't go into them yet. however, in both of my theories, ircher is scum. so without further ado

VOTE: Ircher

Up in your explanation of your read on me, you say your reads on mcmenno and ircher are based on my posts. But my only posts about mcmenno are responses to him scumreading me. Can you explain that?

Also, can you explain the two wildly different theories thing?

[lilith2013]

Clumsy and lilith have been prodded.

I was just posting </3

[lilith2013]

I'm willing to compromise on an FA lynch, I think. Not willing to lynch Clumsy today.

pedit: you're one of those people

[lilith2013]

Also I am really not sure why I even have a wagon. Ircher's reasoning for scumreading me was "not enough content" (I don't think this has been true since then, at least relative to everyone else, and he hasn't stated any further reasoning). FA's reason for scumreading me is ?? and mcmenno's is ???

[lilith2013]

Not sure if I will join that wagon, need to reread for a bit.

Why are you townreading Ircher? Particularly after he made that post dissecting yours and then concluded with a townread?

[lilith2013]

He already clarified by saying he meant at the end of day.

[lilith2013]

Panther? Can you please talk about why you are townreading Ircher?

[lilith2013]

Alright, I'm willing to hold off on Ircher for today.

VOTE: mcmenno

[lilith2013]

Okay I'm here.

I'd like for a lynch to happen and I'd like for it to not be mine. I think Mcmenno's claim sounds like a town one. I don't

think

it's a fakeclaim because it sounds like a mod-supplied claim (that is, I don't think it's something scum would come up with on their own), and last game we weren't given fakeclaims so I think it's probably the same this game.

I have some thoughts on Xk but I think it can wait until after the lynch/tomorrow.

[lilith2013]

I'm not really sure what a chinese fire drill is

Reading her iso

[lilith2013]

She did say she had to leave?

[lilith2013]

I'm saying, it's not necessarily a case of "wow she claimed at a bad time," it might be "town!tth felt there was enough momentum towards her wagon that she would be the lynch and if she wasn't going to be online for the rest of the day anyway then might as well do it now?"

Why is that the only thing

you

have to comment on?

[lilith2013]

Um don't you think if I was scum and TTH was town I would have immediately agreed that it was a scummy thing to do and pushed a lynch on, to quote panther, "possibly the most powerful role in the game"?

[lilith2013]

what does watcher do? Tell you the action they took?

[lilith2013]

what does watcher do? Tell you the action they took?

If that's the case TTH could easily be a rolecop

[lilith2013]

ircher literally seems only feasible lynch at this point.
Not voting him

Can you

I don't know

compromise a little bit

[lilith2013]

watcher gives you a list of players who visited your target

Okay. then I agree with Xk on this one.

[lilith2013]

Um don't you think if I was scum and TTH was town I would have immediately agreed that it was a scummy thing to do and pushed a lynch on, to quote panther, "possibly the most powerful role in the game"?

Why not? You can NK her anyways, right? What the fuck do you lose by saying she is town?

Well seeing as I am still at L-1... myself?

[lilith2013]

(expired on 2016-08-23 08:52:00)

[lilith2013]

^

[lilith2013]

Alright then it's much different from last game.

[lilith2013]

Sure

[lilith2013]

Alright then it's much different from last game.

[lilith2013]

How do you figure that?

[lilith2013]

It's kind of hard to get a counterclaim when only half the players are around.

[lilith2013]

unofficial vc

Ircher (3) - Alabaska J, TellTaleHeart, xkfyu
McMenno (2) - lilith2013, Clumsy
lilith2013 (1) - Ircher
TellTaleHeart (2) - PantherPunt, McMenno
Clumsy (1) - Fire Assassin

(expired on 2016-08-23 08:52:00)

[lilith2013]

I think Ircher might be the only feasible wagon for today.

[lilith2013]

feasible = enough people are on who are willing to vote him to make it a lynch

[lilith2013]

How come you said earlier that Clumsy was a no-lynch for you?

[lilith2013]

mcmenno + xkfyu + me + panther = 4 but I was under the impression panther was not lynching clumsy today.

Like I said before, he sounds like his townself but I don't know how valid that is as a basis for strong reads so I'm probably willing to lynch. Don't know if xkfyu or mcmenno have objections. The issue is lack of claim but I suppose that's true of Ircher as well.

[lilith2013]

VOTE: ircher

[lilith2013]

unofficial vc

Ircher (4) - Alabaska J, TellTaleHeart, xkfyu, lilith2013
McMenno (1) - Clumsy
lilith2013 (1) - Ircher
TellTaleHeart (2) - PantherPunt, McMenno
Clumsy (1) - Fire Assassin

(expired on 2016-08-23 08:52:00)

[lilith2013]

what the hell

VOTE: clumsy

[lilith2013]

I think that's L-1

[lilith2013]

Frankly all my reads are out the window at this point.

[lilith2013]

Frankly all my reads are out the window at this point.

[lilith2013]

That hammer wasn't sketchy as hell or anything

[lilith2013]

what

[lilith2013]

If TTH is scum, then yeah.

[lilith2013]

Flavor isn't AI guys. it doesn't matter whether anyone claims their flavor or not.

[lilith2013]

I think that's L-1, so I'll wait for a response from Ircher (mostly for the lulz), but this is intent to hammer.

[lilith2013]

THERE'S ONLY ONE SCUM LEFT THEY DON'T HAVE A CHOICE ABOUT WHO KILLS

[lilith2013]

THERE'S ONLY ONE SCUM LEFT THEY DON'T HAVE A CHOICE ABOUT WHO KILLS

Forgot about that, bust my reasons stay.

What reasons?? The only reasons you've stated are predicated on there being more than one scum alive so that TTH is the less suspicious of the two and makes the kill. Also, town tracker doesn't usually track the person who quickhammered scum at deadline. That makes no sense. TTH was the only one you could safely claim to track because she claimed her result.

VOTE: ircher

[lilith2013]

VOTE: alabaska

[lilith2013]

Also I can't believe cakes made both xk and me town neighbors, the whole game I was half-scumreading him because of it ><

[lilith2013]

Previous dual universe, I was a scum neighbor. That's why I thought cakes' neighbors would be scum-town again

[lilith2013]

You were definitely not playing like this day one.

On another front, "you weren't playing like this on Earth 1" is a ridiculous argument and really only permutation of the laziest form of meta.
I don't even think I agree that Panther's play here

does

drastically differ from Earth 1.

If you can describe how the play differs in terms of motivation then I think it's still valid.

But I agree with you, Panther's play isn't that much different as to be AI.

[lilith2013]

^

[lilith2013]

unvote

Clumsy makes some great points there. Fire Assassin, while your idea is noble it is not really realistic at all. if you get too paranoid about ever mislynching you just end up doing nothing. I think no lynching is possible the single most anti-town strategy in this type of set up. Clumsy is right - most of our best info will come from how people play differently on the different earths. While mislynching is always bad, the cloud has more silver lining here than a lot of other setups. If we just take it one at a time (again, completely unrealistic anyway), we are just playing two micros. Seems inherently worse than playing two micros simultaneously that give you plenty of information about each other

Ircher kill seems reasonable, scum on world one versus town on world two could mean that he could be read as town more easily. Will be interesting to read clumsy today. I don't know why people are discussing the voting mechanic so heavily; in fact panther's early jump on TTH is the closest thing to a scumtell I've seen today. Looks like a scum trying to start a wagon on the back of town brownie points from the first world then backing off when nothing came of it. Even though these are different worlds if people are not careful their reads will bleed over easily; people who were Very Town last world I think will be overrated (for lack of a better term) in this world.

Why is it good for us to be playing the two games at the same time, but bad for us to be using reads from one game to help along reads in the other game? Isn't that the whole point of playing the two games at the same time rather than playing two separate micros?

[lilith2013]

Sorry I'm just not really into this right now idk why I'll reread later tonight.

[lilith2013]

I'm sorry. Been dealing with some personal stuff I pinky promise I'll get to this tonight.

[lilith2013]

Scum lean on TTH right now.
Town lean on Clumsy.

I'm pretty concerned you're calling me scum here, Fire.
Fun challenge for you because I'm going to bed now: if you don't know why by the time I wake up, I'm voting you. :3

I guess your concerned because that kill looks like something scumFire would do for pure WIFOM?

This stuck out to me on reread. First post is saying he thinks TTH might be scum (and as far as his posts go, he still does) but then addresses her as if he knows she's town--why would she be concerned by something that scum!fire would do if she were scum and he were town?

[lilith2013]

I don't think TTH softclaiming early is particularly AI. I agree with Panther in that I'd probably have kept it to myself as town, but there's not really any reason for her to claim it as scum because it's so easily testable.

[lilith2013]

Panther is definitely sassier than previous world. Need more time to think about whether that is AI.

[lilith2013]

I think that's all I can take for today. I'll try again tomorrow.

[lilith2013]

I think I'm okay with Alabaska today. Something feels off about TTH and Xkfyu. I don't have any super strong reads at the moment though, I'm hoping that'll change after some more information comes out though. I'm at work, I'll try to expand and actually comment on things when I get home.

Can you elaborate on what feels off about Xk?

[lilith2013]

TTH too but I'm more curious about Xk because I'm having trouble (well, more than usual) sorting him.

[lilith2013]

Well, I think you knowing that those suspicions came from us being neighbors together validated townreading me in Earth 1. Here, you don't know anything about the reasons for my suspicions so it's not like that validates a townread. Anyway, it's not like I have specific suspicions or reason to be suspicious, I just don't really know how to go about sorting you right now.

[lilith2013]

I think I'm okay with Alabaska today. Something feels off about TTH and Xkfyu. I don't have any super strong reads at the moment though, I'm hoping that'll change after some more information comes out though. I'm at work, I'll try to expand and actually comment on things when I get home.

Can you elaborate on what feels off about Xk?

Hi

[lilith2013]

Yeah I think so too. Well, I think it's either Xk or Panther. For someone who was pretty vehement about Alabaska's first few posts, panther sure took a while to join that lynch.

[lilith2013]

No, I think Mcmenno was more clearly townread and tth not as much a threat to scum. So I was thinking all along that mcmenno was scum kill.

[lilith2013]

Xk, what is your read on Clumsy?

[lilith2013]

I haven't really had anything to say.

I think I've changed my mind about panther, the way that he just puts himself into that townbloc and his reaction to me talking about him and alabaska at the beginning of the day comes across as very towny.

[lilith2013]

I think I'm leaning towards Xk.

[lilith2013]

Clumsy sounding horrible

Lilith sounding horrible

Xkf sounding horrible

Jesus

Also this is kinda towny to me.

[lilith2013]

I mean, Panther pointed out he was away for the entire weekend leading up to the lynch, so he physically wasn't present to move his vote to alabaska. If anything, Xk's vote is the most suspicious because I never moved my vote away from alabaska, and you didn't need to hammer if you were scumbuddies.

[lilith2013]

I also inferred your post to mean that you thought it was scummy for Alabaska to be voting Panther who was off the wagon and voting TTH and also being voted by Mcmenno who was killed that same night. All of those things being about panther imply that he's your main point of consideration in that post. So...

[lilith2013]

Passing through really quickly

I do agree with Panther on the "both Lilith and FA must be town" because if you're a cop and have one clear and one townread, you separate them out in case you die and then people can be like "oh the person he said was conftown was his check"

Also in both of these dual universe games, the norm has been for either regular usage roles or x-shot roles.