Micro 675: Heroes of the Storm uPick - Game Over!

[The Oxford Bubbles]

VOTE: Duunstral, for being quite lewd.

I mean, I don't mind all that much.

[The Oxford Bubbles]

Well, "us" is better to go on right now than "he lewd".

VOTE: Charloux

[The Oxford Bubbles]

We're a three-person secret hydra, for what it's worth.

Our heads are:
Bemmit
Bubbles
Raven

All unsigned posts so far have been Bemmit.

~ Raven

[The Oxford Bubbles]

Good point. UNVOTE: Charloux

- Bemmit

>tfw another person on your hydra posts before you

[The Oxford Bubbles]

Dunnstral, I don't think it was a slip, but what harm does having an early wagon do?

~ Raven

[The Oxford Bubbles]

Charloux already has votes. Stopping the wagon drains momentum from the game. You aren't using your vote - choose someone else and I'll join you.

~ Raven

[The Oxford Bubbles]

I bet Syryana was trying to get Charloux quicklynched on a reason that only looks good!!! Mafia like hiding behind FAKE reasons to attack people cos they know if the reason sounds good they can vote innocent townies and noone will know!

And then when Dunnstral yells at him he posts a gif of an ugly man! I think he's scum trying to dodge the subject >:C He didn't even explain why he wanted Dunnstral lynched! I bet he moved his vote cos he couldn't hide behind his fake reason any more...

VOTE: Syryana

die! die! die!

- Bubbles

[The Oxford Bubbles]

Wahaha! He might be mafia pretending to have an oblique trajectory so'd ya think he was town though! I don't trust weird words like that

- Bubbles

[The Oxford Bubbles]

I disagree with Bubbles about what Syryana was doing but I don't think his posting is genuine. He calls attention to what he did in post 50 and to my gut that doesn't sit right.

~ Raven

[The Oxford Bubbles]

It's not a posting shtick.

~ Raven

[The Oxford Bubbles]

shtick shmtick

I write the way I talk!

Anywaysies bork, I looked at what ya said about oblique stuff. I gotta question - if you know that 36 meant he was trying to trap someone, wouldn't the peoples he was trying to trap know too? That's not a good trap at all! Aaaand, since he voted dunn, that must've mean dunn fell into his trap! But if that was the case he'd yell at dunn and go "you did this and fell into my trap, so you're mafia!" but he had no explanation at all. The way I see it, 34 makes suuper obvious that dunn thought anyone who bought into the charloux wagon was a bad person, so I'd think 39 was just a sneaky little get outta jail free in case Dunn went "hey, Sy!! you were on the scummy make-a-big-deal charloux wagon too!!"

[The Oxford Bubbles]

- Bubbles!

(sorry I forgot to sign :s)

[The Oxford Bubbles]

Reading us is probably gonna end up being a fuckin' nightmare due to there being 3 of us. Anyway, I'm currently leaning Syryana as it looks like that was calling out inconsequential language to start a wagon, but I definitely have my reservations. Overall I wouldn't call it reason enough to vote but this is a hydra, the will of the other 2 aligns with this vote and I don't give too much a shit. Possibly more in-depth reading later.

~ Bremmit

[The Oxford Bubbles]

Oxford is getting a squinty eyed glare from me.

I see a pretty believable trajectory from them

Whassat? His thought process seems kinda fake to me! Look, he said he voted Dunnstral for not backin' up his yelling, right? But he didn't say that then, he just posted a picture of laughing! But aaafter I yell at him for it, he suddenly says his explanation? So the question I wanna ask is, Syr, why'dja not say it right from the start? Didja have a reason to keep stuff secretsies?

- Bubbles

[The Oxford Bubbles]

But I kinda want Dunn to explain why he didn't vote earlier too... :O Syr has a good point about that!

-Bubbles

[The Oxford Bubbles]

I'm reading everything bubbles writes in Harley Quinn's voice for whatever reason

ok i'm done shitposting

Thaaank yooouuu!!! *showers you with hearts and bubbles*
<3 <3 Harley is sexy!

[The Oxford Bubbles]

The moderator knew we were a hydra at sign up.

~ Raven

[The Oxford Bubbles]

Sorry! I meant Harley is prettyful Raven said that I can't call Harley sexy in thread

Dunn! You shouldn't need Seiko to tell ya why you didn't vote earlier!

- Bubbles

[The Oxford Bubbles]

Hah! That's nothing! We got an even better role ^_^ It makes it so we become ascetics the night after anyone targets us with a night action!!! So don't try to do anything to us or you'll get your time wasted >:D

- Bubbles

[The Oxford Bubbles]

Awww, that's cool! Can you resurrect us if we die? Pleaaase?

- Bubbles

[The Oxford Bubbles]

Language!

- Bubbles

[The Oxford Bubbles]

We planned to claim. I don't know if we should have or did it at the right time. I don't know why Charloux claimed.

~ Raven

[The Oxford Bubbles]

I'm not an idiot!!!

- Bubbles

[The Oxford Bubbles]

Nobody claimed honestly, or

Oxford

Bubbles is an idiot.
But i'm pretty sure i know what Dunnstral is.

*softly implying he was lying*

~ Bemmit

[The Oxford Bubbles]

Also, if you have info on Dunnstral, you should speak up about it. Don't expect to leave out little breadcrumb trails and to have me not follow them back to your red, sweaty palms.

~ Bemmit

[The Oxford Bubbles]

Laaanguaaaage!!

Dunny, Charloux kinda said his claim was a lie though!

Syr, it's cos we already wanted to claim pregame!

- Bubbles

[The Oxford Bubbles]

it says he thinks town have reasons to lie in a mass flavorclaim, or any massclaim at all

zzzzzzz

Why'dja post this? Are ya sleepy?

And why's Syr town? Even if ya buy his train of thought about moving the game in a direction, that doesn't mean he's town!!! He could be scum having that same train of thought!!! Just 'cos his direction's plausible doesn't mean he's more town... after all, scum likes to push the game in lotsa ways too!!!!

- Bubbles

[The Oxford Bubbles]

Nu uh! This aint that! See, ya told me why you think Syr's posts were good and ya can see his train of thought movin' in certain ways! Like ya think he was trying to lay a sneaky trap!

But!!!

What's to say he can't be mafia laying the trap? You only proved why he wasn't mafia!! not why he was town!!!

If ya believe that, you should think he's... null! ^_^

- Bubbles

[The Oxford Bubbles]

I think what Bubbles meant to say is that you haven't shown clear town motivation.
I think Syryana action's have been safe and controlled. I don't think they look genuine.

~ Raven

[The Oxford Bubbles]

I don't see scum motivation, but I believe townreads on him are misguided. He performed a reaction test, but he made it clear and dropped it quickly. He gave reads, but they were straightforward. In you and Dunnstral I see more choas. Syryana's actions have been linear.

~ Raven

[The Oxford Bubbles]

Scum don't scumhunt. They use their actions to tell a story they're creating. True events aren't like constructed stories. They aren't simple and don't follow an easy sequence - linear.
Syryana doesn't use his actions to probe further, dig deeper than he could. He makes a move, explains it, and then moves on.
Controlled. Linear.

~ Raven

[The Oxford Bubbles]

Any other reads right now?

Bubbles and I are town-reading you, and I'm town-reading Obvious Alt and Dunnstral.

~ Raven

[The Oxford Bubbles]

All absolutes are bullshit.

In honesty, scum can scumhunt, they're just going to be wrong. You're writing a narrative that is pretty patently not true.

Scum can pretend to scum-hunt, but they can't scum-hunt unless they're in a multi-ball game. I think we're on the same page but you're thinking of pretending to hunt for scum as being the same as scum-hunting.

~ Raven

[The Oxford Bubbles]

VOTE: Aj

I agree with bork.

~ Raven

[The Oxford Bubbles]

The reason I didn't wanna Bork to call Syr town without a good reasonsies is cos if Syr is scum he can fake town and bowl over Bork!!!! That's not good! We hafta be careful about who's town and who's just a null read!!

Anywaysies, Raven's vote on Aj is goodie I like it a lot

Seiko is not scum!! I don't understand why ya say she's scum bork But I do think char and bork are townies

Dunn, who do ya think is scumsies? Ya haven't explained ya saying you wanna lynch Shadow >.< That's mean if you're just voting him cos he voted ya

- Bubbles

[The Oxford Bubbles]

Why are you so convinced Seiko is town? You've spent the whole game trying to convince bork that I've done nothing that couldn't be faked whereas Seiko (which consists of two players that I consider better mafia players than I am) is solid town. What have they done that's not fakeable?

I'm not saying seiko's town!! I'm saying seiko's not scum!!! That means she's null. Q, E, D! I said who was town and they were bork and char! So that's not true syr!

- Bubbles

[The Oxford Bubbles]

AJ THE EPIC IS A MEANIE!!! OF COURSE WE SUPPORTED AN RVS WAGON IN RVS!!! HE'S JUST TRYING TA MAKE US LOOK BAD SO HE CAN MISLYNCH US!!!!!

- BUBBLES

[The Oxford Bubbles]

intent to hammer

Who'dja hammering? noone's there yet!!

- Bubbles

[The Oxford Bubbles]

I'm in agreement with 224 and I'm townreading Seiko X Naomi for it on a gut level.

Is there anybody you DO feel is explicitly town or scum? Or are even leaning in that direction? (also fyi Seiko is Notty and Pie, not penguin)

possible negative association between AJ/Seiko here

I don't agree with this. What makes it a negative association?

~ Raven

[The Oxford Bubbles]

I don't think AJ would mistake one of the heads of his scumbuddy for someone that isn't in the game if they had pregame chat.

If you think Seiko is town anyway then this isn't really worth arguing about

I didn't pay attention to the names well enough. I understand now.

Dunnstral, can I ask about your reads?

~ Raven

[The Oxford Bubbles]

I don't really get any scumvibes from AJ thus far

Oh yeah?? Whatabout when he was trying to KILL ME FOR NO REASON???? Lynch the scum!!!!

P.S: I am not pants on head!

- Bubbles

[The Oxford Bubbles]

What are they?

~ Raven

[The Oxford Bubbles]

Why is SXN scummy to you?

~ Raven

[The Oxford Bubbles]

Hisies!!! I haven't caught up yet!!! There's so much stuff to read!

- Bubbles

[The Oxford Bubbles]

Hmph!!! Seiko is really mean but I don't think they're mean scum... I think they're mean TOWN who's trying to be mean to the mafia!!!

But we're not mafia

I still don't like Aj!!! he should be lynched... Dunstral, why dontcha wanna lynch him?

- Bubbles

[The Oxford Bubbles]

Wait a minute!! Dunnstral, ya said Aj was town cos he wasn't keeping track of the votes on him! That's a bad reason! Mafia can be absent minded too, ya know?

- Bubbles

[The Oxford Bubbles]

I'm not feeling well right now. I'll respond to SXN as soon as I can. What I can say right now is that we didn't claim at the beginning of the day because I didn't know if it was best to claim on day 1 or day 2. I'll get to the rest in a little while.

~ Raven

[The Oxford Bubbles]

VOTE: Shadowstep

dunnstral's posts are good! But seiko's are not, so I won't vote with them.

ANYWAY, I think what Dunn said about shadowstep scumslipping was good! Shadow must be trying to cover up thefact that he is scum!!!

Thanks Dunstrall!!!

Seiko, I will lynch you next!

- Bubbles

[The Oxford Bubbles]

I'm sorry I haven't posted a lot.

notscience:-
Aj gave me bad gut feelings that I didn't know how to explain. Bork put what I didn't know how to say into words. That's why I placed our vote in that way.
I didn't know the right time to claim because our role doesn't affect night 1. We could have claimed at the start of day 2. When Charloux claimed, Bubbles wanted to as well, so I let her.
I'm sure there are other things I need to respond to, but I can't pick them out because of how things are formatted. Please ask me about what's worrying you directly.

everything else:-
I'm feeling Aj's town. I again don't know how to explain it because it's tonal. Posts 321 and 345 are what swayed me.
I don't want to lynch OA today. I feel I can work with them.
I'm still making my mind up on S_S.
I've become more wary of Dunnstral.

I mean to be fair I've engaged in plenty of natural dialogue with you and you still haven't figured out I'm town.

I didn't like this, so we're moving our vote here.

VOTE: Syryana

[The Oxford Bubbles]

~ Raven

[The Oxford Bubbles]

Neither of us are being intentionally confusing. Bubbles can be a little exuberant in a way that throws people off, but that's just how she is.
notscience, please talk to me. I believe you're town.

~ Raven

[The Oxford Bubbles]

ugh why do you not like that though

I don't think Syryana has done enough to make them believe that you should townread them and be annoyed that you aren't. It's also partly the phrasing. I've seen scum say the same thing almost word for word before.

~ Raven

[The Oxford Bubbles]

Honestly, and this sounds really dumb, but I've had syry as a lock-read since his reaction test. I fucking loved that shit.

Also syry calling me out. No way in hell scum-syry tries to go toe to toe with town-me and town-pie.

pedit
Why not

Can you tell me more about these two things? If you're confident on Syryana, I want to better understand your perspective.

~ Raven

[The Oxford Bubbles]

I support raven's vote!!! I should never have let go of my vote on syryana!!!

- Bubbles

[The Oxford Bubbles]

Seiko... can ya tell me what ya read on Syryana is?

- Bubbles

[The Oxford Bubbles]

I have You and Bork as town and TOB as lean town because of the claim. Bubbles head of that Hydra is very scummy though and I'd love it if they just lose the password to the account, they're pretty useless and add nothing.
I'm torn on AJ and S&N
Scum lean on Dunn and OA

no I'm not!!!!!

you're just mad I voted you and stuff!!!

this just sour grapes!!!

people vote each other in mafia okay!! it's not a personal attack or anything!!!! I didn't mean to be rude!

- Bubbles!

[The Oxford Bubbles]

And BY THE WAY RAVEN told me I was doing well!!!!!

- Bubbles

[The Oxford Bubbles]

I don't want to lynch OA today. I feel I can work with them.

...? Okay, how so? Disregard that slot's been replaced and let's pretend we've got OA sitting around and lurking for a moment. How did you feel you were going to be able to work with OA? I got the exact opposite impression for obvious reasons.

I liked their approach. They seemed open. I feel if I'd wanted to reach out to them, they would have been willing to work with me.

~ Raven

[The Oxford Bubbles]

Prob the only thing I'd maybe change is syr/charloux spots

I probably would too based just on this game's content, but my charloux read is influenced by one game I had with him some time ago.

PERSIVUL!!!! AJ ASKED YOU TO EXPLAIN YOUR READS AND YOU DIDN'TT!!!

are you scum?? why are ya acting so evasive??

- Bubbles

[The Oxford Bubbles]

I see Syryana won't be lynched today.
I don't have a townread on Shadow_step, so I'll place our vote there.

VOTE: Shadow_step

If we're giving Persivul the night, TOB is the two I'd fall back. Mainly TOB's complete belief that he could 'work with' OA is so incredibly off base to me not only because of OA's offputting bullshit, but also because TOB has 0 interaction (flat none) to back that up. There's no talking between them and TOB only talks about OA after I brought up OA as a major scum read.

I should have reached out to Obvious Alt, you're right. I didn't because I wasn't sure how to approach them while they had so little posts. The posts they did have made me think they would have been open to discussing things with me. Their first post suggested this to me most of all.

~ Raven

[The Oxford Bubbles]

One more thing - please don't make personal attacks towards my hydra partner(s). Attack the play, not the player, as it's said.

~ Raven

[The Oxford Bubbles]

We're OK with claiming our role if it's the correct play. We want SXN to give their opinion first.

~ Raven

[The Oxford Bubbles]

Persivul as scum could instantly hammer anyone Dunnstral chose to make Hated. Dunnstral chose Persivul. That doesn't make sense if Dunnstral knew he was caught. Not knowing he was caught, it wouldn't make sense to push for Persivul's lynch. Persivul should be town in both situations.
Is this right?

~ Raven

[The Oxford Bubbles]

WE WON'T LET YA BULLY US INTO CLAIMING!!!!!!

and I think PERSIVUL could be scum cos dunn would make him hated so everyone thinks he's twn but he's actually scummmm!!!!!

But aj is still scum from before, and he wants us to claim!!! so I guess I'll...

VOTE: Aj the epic

that's what you get for bullying us you big meanie!!!

i'll take this vote off if raven says so tho ^_^

- Bubbles

[The Oxford Bubbles]

okay raven said he's town so I trust her!!!!

UNVOTE:

i've got my eye on you though aj! any funny moves and I'll eat you up!

- Bubbless

[The Oxford Bubbles]

I think Persivul is scum! Here is the evidence against him.

1) He was chosen by Dunn to be hated! That means Dunnstral wants to make us think he is town by being hated. cossss Dunn woulda known he would flip! so making a townie hated was no use since everyone would know they were hated! the only reason is to make him look g o o d

2) he was trying to make me vote aj so he could use his double vote and quick hammer! I find it suspicious that he summoned his ultralisk on the day I was abuot to put aj at L-2!!!!!

Aj I am not being counter productive, I am trying to solve the game and find mafia! Tell me how I'm makin the mafia win?? huh??

- Bubbles

[The Oxford Bubbles]

You're both right. I don't know where to go from here then.
SXN, do you support the order Aj is asking for claims in?

~ Raven

[The Oxford Bubbles]

Aj I am not being counter productive, I am trying to solve the game and find mafia! Tell me how I'm makin the mafia win?? huh??

Voting town would be the first piece of evidence...

sneakily implyin' yer town won't be enough to get me to take my eye off you!!!! in fact I'm more suspicious at you for trying to make me think you are town by using sneaky words!!

- Bubbles

[The Oxford Bubbles]

I'm checking something with the mod first. I'm sorry for any delay.

~ Raven

[The Oxford Bubbles]

All right. It would be beneficial for everyone to claim whether they have an ability that can directly and intentionally target us before we claim. I don't have a lot of experience with set-up analysis, but I think this is the correct play.
Would everyone be OK with that?

~ Raven

[The Oxford Bubbles]

I wouldn't. Claims are made in order from scummier to townier, so that the scummier can't invent excuses for conflicts. You and syry need to go first, then Seiko and AJ.

I'm not asking for the claim order to be changed. I just want a yes or no answer. It'll make sense once we've claimed.

~ Raven

[The Oxford Bubbles]

If I explain why, it won't work. It

will

make sense once we've claimed. What are the problems with claiming whether your ability does or doesn't target?

~ Raven

[The Oxford Bubbles]

notscience, I can claim without doing this but it will hurt town. I'm not wasting time.

~ Raven

[The Oxford Bubbles]

I'm not asking for you to let us claim second. We need this information to avoid a specific situation that could cost town the game.

~ Raven

[The Oxford Bubbles]

Thank you, Aj. We need to hear from everyone else too. Scum need to be locked into claiming one or the other when the time comes for their full claim.

~ Raven

[The Oxford Bubbles]

I'll return here to claim within the 24 hour time limit SXN proposed. I'm hoping more people will have claimed whether or not they can target by then. Please ask yourselves what you would lose from it as town, and what we would gain as scum.

~ Raven

[The Oxford Bubbles]

We're Li Li. Our ability is Fast Feet. If we're targeted by any abilities, we become immune to all abilities the next night. That includes kills.
I wanted people to claim whether or not they could target so it was less likely the Mafia could lie about having activated our ability. I believe Aj's town, so if we're targeted we should be Bulletproof the night following Lylo.

~ Raven

[The Oxford Bubbles]

I can't understand your thoughts, Syryana. Why are you voting us?

~ Raven

[The Oxford Bubbles]

That doesn't help me understand. What are you reading as scum motivated?

~ Raven

[The Oxford Bubbles]

Our PM says our ability activates when we're targeted during the night, so I don't think day abilities trigger it.
Syryana, in LyLo scum would need to mislynch us to win. If they lied about activating our ability, they wouldn't.

~ Raven

[The Oxford Bubbles]

If we're Bulletproof after LyLo, scum can't shoot us. That should end the game in a draw.

~ Raven

[The Oxford Bubbles]

You win when your faction has become the majority of players alive, or when nothing can prevent this from happening.

There's no way for this to happen if the Mafia can't kill the night after LyLo.

Foxbird

, can you confirm this?

~ Raven

[The Oxford Bubbles]

2. Next day, no lynch happens because lynch is impossible

I believe this ends the game. Foxbird can clarify.

~ Raven

[The Oxford Bubbles]

That information helps. You could be right. I still want the mod to clarify. The wiki doesn't cover what happens with Bulletproofs.

~ Raven

[The Oxford Bubbles]

I think Persivul is scum! Here is the evidence against him.

1) He was chosen by Dunn to be hated! That means Dunnstral wants to make us think he is town by being hated. cossss Dunn woulda known he would flip! so making a townie hated was no use since everyone would know they were hated! the only reason is to make him look g o o d

2) he was trying to make me vote aj so he could use his double vote and quick hammer! I find it suspicious that he summoned his ultralisk on the day I was abuot to put aj at L-2!!!!!

HEY!!!! PERSIVUL!!!! RESPOND TO THIS OR I'LL QUICKHAMMER YA!!!!

[The Oxford Bubbles]

I'm caught up.

VOTE: TOB

What's the reason behind this vote?

~ Raven

[The Oxford Bubbles]

Your claim makes the least sense, Dunn has gone after Syr fairly hard and wanted to lynch OA for some non-factor response to a prod.

Why does our claim make the least sense?

You're all caught up, and that's all you have to say?

Yes. I don't see anything else I can comment on. My reads haven't changed. If you disagree with something I've said, let me know.

~ Raven

[The Oxford Bubbles]

We already have a basic "odd night doctor" who if they paired with you, would make you fully immune to nightkills by your claim. There's 1xpublic cop and a strong reporter (2x results per action) AND a 1 x flavor cop. All of these are fairly weak (don't equal the power of an actual cop) but have pretty good signaling with each other through Bork's role. Governor is needed to balance hated+double vote issues, and that combination is too disgusting for scum to have in tandem imo. Having Scum Governor + scum hated invalidates town lynching super hard because Dunn could hide power and no way on earth would we figure out WHY someone was becoming hated. +Gambits are pretty strong that way.

I don't understand how this affects our role. What's the purpose of your own role in this set-up?

~ Raven

[The Oxford Bubbles]

I was near 100% lynching Persi would have ended the game.

Why did you think this after he was clear about his intention to self-hammer?

~ Raven

[The Oxford Bubbles]

I didn't really care about all of the stuff he was saying about self-hammering; as far as I was concerned it was just yet another cheap scum ploy that people would look at and think "o, no way this comes from scum" and not want to vote him

What made you think he wouldn't follow through?

where are your reads currently at?

I've been scum-reading Syryana from the start of the game. But I can't understand why you're still alive. I don't understand how you can say you were so sure about Persivul. There's a disconnect between how we're seeing the game there, and I need to understand why that is.

~ Raven

[The Oxford Bubbles]

That solves my dilemma. I was starting to question my read of you more, SxN, because I read Persivul's claim as completely serious. It seemed like you were taking too hard a stance. As if you wanted to look more confident of your actions than you were.
I'm sorry for not posting as often as I should have. I've been busy, and found it hard to get into the game. Please let me know if there's anything that needs addressing and I'll get to it as soon as possible. I'll make a case on Syryana as soon as I have time.

Vote: Syryana

~ Raven

[The Oxford Bubbles]

Forgive me if I don't have a lot to say. I've never been in this position before.
My main reason to scum-read Syryana up to this point has been that I felt they were pretending. Their play has been shallow. That's still true. It's something that's hard to describe though. The best I can do is say what I said on day 1 - they make a move, explain it, pull back, repeat. Skim their ISO when you have the time. Their play follows this pattern. It's not how a townperson plays. It's robotic. They're not scum-hunting. They're pretending to scum-hunt.

~ Raven

[The Oxford Bubbles]

You people really suck at reaction tests.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Dunnstral

Bork, you can unshoo now.

reaction tests.

So when you get called out, it's a reaction test?

This interaction is the second thing I feel is worth looking at. Syryana made it clear they were reaction testing. They were never seriously invested in the push they made. Dunnstral should have known this.

~ Raven

[The Oxford Bubbles]

That's disappointing. Well played. (:
I was seriously considering voting SxN in the end. It's a shame I was never in a position to make that decision.

~ Raven