Micro 679: Double Day Unlimited Hydra Blitz! ~ Endgame

[Penguinos]

Mmmmmmmmmmmm.....
Hrm.........
Yeppers

VOTE: Flip Flop

[Penguinos]

Must we use such big words? Think of the children.

[Penguinos]

VOTE: Penguinos
VOTE: Transcendance
VOTE: Flip Flop

So you hammered Flip because...funsies?

[Penguinos]

penguin was that Karanos or penguin who voted that btw

I guess I should start signing...we are pretty different posters, but karnos hasn't shown himself yet.

-P

[Penguinos]

In fact I'm pretty sure that both scum are on this wagon anyway.

Why are you so sure of that?

-P

[Penguinos]

PP why are you signing?
I get it's cool you wanna tell us which head is talking
but why give that information to scum?

I'm not signing. It's an emoji of a cyclops sticking his tongue out.

[Penguinos]

I fucking told you guys to stop that bullshit. I am happy to PL this entire wagon.

We made one vote, and it was on Flip. Faux rage detected.

[Penguinos]

That toally looks like an emoji.

Meant emoticon. You know what I meant.

[Penguinos]

IMO lewdandrude is probably scum.

If town quick hammerer like that, scum would jump on the easy lynch opportunity. Since that hasn't happened, it is safe to say they are scum.

That is my observation from a quick read, this is my first post. -k

[Penguinos]

VOTE: Lewdandrude
let's make it official

[Penguinos]

It's hard to track votes, so let's use hurt and heal.

And how does that help? How do you track your heels and hoes?

[Penguinos]

Penguinos is scum.

You hammered our RVS and that makes us scum and you town?

Please explain your case.

[Penguinos]

Hey look, scum jumping on the town quick hammer.

It has been 4 hours, an eternity in blitz, and nobody had voted him. The obvious resistance to the wagon proves he is scum.

[Penguinos]

Penguinos is scum.

Penguinos is not scum. K is just super scummy.

Not going to tell me other head what to do (but I am)

HURT: E&A

Oops.

[Penguinos]

Karnos what's your read on us

-Inf

Townish. But I read INF wrong in the last game with him and transcend is too random as either alignment so I am not confident in the read.

[Penguinos]

Penguinos is scum.

You hammered our RVS and that makes us scum and you town?

Please

explain your case.

[/b]

[Penguinos]

I'm asking what your case is for me being scum.

[Penguinos]

kankie hydra just has really slimey posts and pushes and once i talk to creature that's 100% where i want my vote to go. anyone townreading this slot needs to explain why asap

This is what we call a weak push. "Slimey [sic] posts and pushes" without reason or example. Why don't you explain the scum read instead of trying to pull this crap.

[Penguinos]

no vote or hurt tag? :/

K...I'll let K respond to the rest since that was him, but I did put a hurt tag on A&E after I had a chance to speak to my partner for the first time this game. So...yeah. Cool.

[Penguinos]

Appreciate the effort though. Don't see the need for another [sic]. Maybe a few punctuation marks.

[Penguinos]

K...I'll let K respond to the rest since that was him, but I did put a hurt tag on A&E after I had a chance to speak to my partner for the first time this game. So...yeah. Cool.

yes i noticed but like

why push something as scummy in the beginning of the day and not do anything about it immediately? the delayed tag is still weird.

Because I spent the majority of the day representing my hydra alone. Thought it might be nice to get some input before continuing.

[Penguinos]

actually while you're here can you go into your transcendence townread

That, again, would be K. So...yeah.

[Penguinos]

i mean i believe that karnos wasnt online but i dont really see why you shouldnt vote your scumread

Meh. Vote or "hurt." Who the F cares. I did what I did when I did for the reasons I said I did. Keep trying to reach.

[Penguinos]

it's good to sync up with your partner but like that doesn't mean you have to be co-dependent of each other

Co-dependent, no. But, I would like to discuss with him before we start arguing about it in thread.

[Penguinos]

i'm saying why not use a hurt tag or something to indicate that it's like an actual scumread and not just for show

I did...when I came back to the thread.

[Penguinos]

Penguin I think that you're town. Why do you scumread us?

As it stands:

I think your slot is scummy given the faux rage and it seems like you used it as an excuse to put a lot of votes on the table (which is a play you chastised earlier) which could end in a mislynch with limited suspicion.

[Penguinos]

I get that he's pretending like I'm not "presenting a case" on him

I'm not pretending. I have asked for your case and except muttering something about "inf" you haven't said a damn thing.

Are you voting me to lynch a townie, or to catch scum? If you are honestly trying to catch scum, why is it so hard for you put your reasoning into a post in plain words?

[Penguinos]

And his justification was that nobody voted us when only 4 hours had passed

"that's forever in a blitz" time passes in the real world at the same pace, actually. And we've got a ton of time

It's just slimy

We have already had a lynch (thanks to you, for the record). In any normal game this would be day 2. If 4 hours isn't an eternity, well that just then makes you insane quick hammer look even worse.

[Penguinos]

Penguinos is scum.

You hammered our RVS and that makes us scum and you town?

Please

explain your case.

[/b]

Are you choosing to ignore infinity jumping on me still

-All Rude

Is this your case?

Is it?

[Penguinos]

IMO lewdandrude is probably scum.

If town quick hammerer like that, scum would jump on the easy lynch opportunity. Since that hasn't happened, it is safe to say they are scum.

That is my observation from a quick read, this is my first post. -k

shallow logic and kind of silly considering someone DID jump on the easy lynch oppurtunity

there's two scum if you're going to say that scum will jump at the opportunity that one person who jumps on could still be oppurtunistic

According to 207 , he didn't have any votes on him. Looking at timestamps, the vote sat for about an hour and a half and nobody else voted. If you are scum trying to get a miss lynch, why do you unvote like that?

TBH, after a nights sleep I feel a little less confident in my logic, but it is what it is. Penguin thinks lewd is town. I disagree. -k

[Penguinos]

i really like 268, and really don't like penguin.

You keep on making that clear, yet you can't seem to present a case. How about now?

[Penguinos]

That wasn't a hammer. Rethinking my townread on Lewd.

[Penguinos]

his posts are so blatantly scummy they don't even need an explanation.

How is this not karnos playing like karnos?

[Penguinos]

lewd: but can you explain why you were strongly scum reading me before I ever posted? -k

[Penguinos]

PEDIT: PENGUIN
I AM LEWD (HUMAN SEQUENCER)
NOT RUDE (DUNNSTRAL)
PLEASE READ

Why are you acting like that makes your prior actions irrelevant?

Even if you are town, don't you realize your perception of me might be skewed because I (karnos) entered the game to find that your slot was voting me without any apparent case?

[Penguinos]

Because they're not my actions????????
How does that skew my perception???????
-Lewd

I am acting towards you very differently than if you were not a hydra and you were not pushing a shaky case on me.

If you are not taking that into account, your perception is skewed.

[Penguinos]

Penguin I think that you're town. Why do you scumread us?

As it stands:

I think your slot is scummy given the faux rage and it seems like you used it as an excuse to put a lot of votes on the table (which is a play you chastised earlier) which could end in a mislynch with limited suspicion.

why you never mentioned this before then? guess that was mentis point?

took so long for you to explain this

#Elsa

I mean, I already answered this. I called out the faux rage in post 66, waited for K to show up so we could talk, and then put down the hurt.

-P

[Penguinos]

LewdandRude is scum.

Had some doubts about my initial read yesterday, but the refusal to explain his case just puts the nail in the coffin. That is scum play, period. Town is happy to present a case as it increases the likelihood of others joining the wagon and leading to an actual lynch, there no way this hydra is town.

[Penguinos]

This is karnos.

[Penguinos]

sorry for being tired i guess
nice misrep btw

In 215 I asked for your case.

47 posts, and some 40 hours later, you have apparently been "too tired" to make that case. I am starting to fear that you will be too tired until the game day ends. Maybe you should see a doctor if you are feeling this exhausted all the time.

Logically, between you being "too tired" or you just being bad scum unable to make a case because it didn't actually exist, I think the second is far more likely.

you do realize that increasing the likelihood of your lynch is what would motivate me in this situation if i were scum, right? so what about me 'refusing' to present a case (which I'm not even doing) is scum motivated, as opposed to NAI?

Are you kidding? Scum would love to see a player get lynched with minimal case/pushing, as it allows for an easy out the next day when suspicions are drawn based on the flip, because scum KNOWS it's a bad push. Town doesn't care, because town thinks it is actually pushing scum.

[Penguinos]

In 215 I asked for your case.

NO YOU FUCKING DIDN'T
I AM HUMAN SEQUENCER
NOT DUNN
STOP PULLING THIS BULLSHIT, PLEASE READ

You are both sharing a slot. Take your own advice: PLEASE READ. If you read the thread and understand the questions asked of your slot, you should understand that answers to them are expected.

[Penguinos]

Fake rage detected. -k

[Penguinos]

484 was clearly referring to -one person-. He's implying it took -one person- 40 hours to respond which is just not true, and using it to paint me as scummy.
-Lewd

You've spewed so much BS I don't have time to respond to it all just yet, but this piece is especially precious.

So my complaint that one person can't respond in 40 hours is unfair, because in reality there are two of you?

W. T. F. It should be easier to find the time to explain a case given that there are two of you, not harder. Dunn didn't say a thing yo you about why he had the reads he had? This is a blitz game, and dunn hasn't checked in with you at all since I asked for a case? What kind of lie are trying to get me to believe, exactly?

[Penguinos]

You can't even keep your own head straight. You twist your own previous meanings into any which way to justify yourself.
Your posts have no logical consistency whatsoever.
Ignoring penguin so that it doesn't shit up the thread.
-Lewd

Yeah, I reiterate that this is scum. Town would respond to me points. LewdandRude is avoiding them.

Most likely explanation: caught scum.

[Penguinos]

One other point.

This is a blitz game, we have 2 more days until deadline.

LewdandRude has 2 votes. I know mine is coming from town, and I am reading transcendence as a town slot.

Would this be an irresistible wagon for scum to jump on and push? If LewdandRude is actually town, they get an easy lynch on one town today, and an excellent excuse to get my slot lynched tomorrow, 2 for the price of one.

I'm pretty much convinced that between transcendance and LewdandRude, one of them is scum. (Almost certainly LewdandRude).

[Penguinos]

how new are you to mafia games?

#Elsa

Save the insults for after the flip.

[Penguinos]

LewdandRude has 2 votes. I know mine is coming from town, and I am reading transcendence as a town slot.

I've explained in an earlier post why this reasoning is weak.
Would you mind responding to that reasoning?

Your argument is senseless.

We have already had a lynch. The idea that scum are afraid to get their hands dirty suggests that you think the prior lynch was purely town driven. Do you really? If not, scum have already dirtied their hands.

You can't use reasoning based on a normal 14-day deadline game in a blitz, because decisions here happen much more rapidly.

[Penguinos]

Are you reading the game? I'm hard townreading L&R and unvoted them forever ago

-Inf

Yes I am.

People freaked out when I voted lewd in the first place because you were "voting" them, even though you unvoted long before I placed my vote. So if that is the bizarre reasoning used in this game, I wanted to be sure to account for it in my posts.

[Penguinos]

That underline part is naive >.>

Like I can't legitly think this is how anyone can think. That wagon was so mehh. It happened to fast to be AI in any manner and you bringing it up to make your tunnel look more good makes you look like a noob

and I'm starting to think you're faking it

#Elsa

It's weird. In many other games, players will freak out or even scum-read a person for something as minor as putting someone at L-1 without clear announcement. Nobody ever calls such logic naive.

Yet in this one, where not only did that happen but there was also an actual lynch, you are suggesting it's naive to even look at the hammer, much less whoever voted L-1.

[Penguinos]

Your argument is senseless.

We have already had a lynch. The idea that scum are afraid to get their hands dirty suggests that you think the prior lynch was purely town driven. Do you really? If not, scum have already dirtied their hands.

You can't use reasoning based on a normal 14-day deadline game in a blitz, because decisions here happen much more rapidly.

Claiming that there is scum on the lynch wagon is far, far different than saying that the hammerer was scum.
Not everyone on that wagon had intent to lynch; in fact, I'd argue that there wasn't anyone on that wagon with actual intent to lynch aside from maybe a devious scum LnR, which means that your entire premise is completely ruined.

Has Penguin commented on your push or do you not think that his opinion matters?

Penguin did not think L&R was scum yesterday, but haven't seen him back since. I had doubts myself, but the inability to give me a straight answer about their case on my slot is really pinging me hard. I don't buy the fake rage from HS about me asking "dunnstral" questions. Whether you hydra or replace in you need to account for your slots actions in the game, you don't just get a fresh start because you are a new driver.

" I'd argue that there wasn't anyone on that wagon with actual intent to lynch aside from maybe a devious scum LnR, which means that your entire premise is completely ruined."

I don't agree. Scum "intend" to lynch anyone they can, they are neither picky nor selective. They might not have jumped on the wagon expecting to see an actual hammer, but they certainly wouldn't be disappointed with that result. The same *could* be true with LnR. Scum could have jumped on my wagon, not really "intending" to hard lynch L&R but they would be pretty happy if it led to a lynch anyway- unless L&R is scum.

[Penguinos]

Haven't read since Sunday, but I think I would be okay with a mantis shrimp lynch. I still know lewd is scum, but it seems they can get away with the most blatant anti-twon play without anyone else even caring so I don't see that lynch happening.

[Penguinos]

Going to read through before actually placing a vote, and based on the number of new pages... this is going to take an hour+

[Penguinos]

Was hoping my other head would be active yesterday, sorry. (this is karnos)

[Penguinos]

It's weird. In many other games, players will freak out or even scum-read a person for something as minor as putting someone at L-1 without clear announcement. Nobody ever calls such logic naive.

Yet in this one, where not only did that happen but there was also an actual lynch, you are suggesting it's naive to even look at the hammer, much less whoever voted L-1.

I think your approach is less naive and more overly simplified. If you were looking at the hammerer, that would not be so bad because it implies that you were taking into account all of Lewd's posting and forming a read independent of that hammer (since the hammer could come from either alignment). In this game, it feels like you're hinging too much on the hammer alone and less into the play outside of that; the doubt you had afterwards was good and it made it seem like you were legitimately reading the slot, but your posting after the fact shows you tipping back into a tunnel.

In the contrary, my read is strengthened by lewd's refusal to offer a case as to why I am scum, it's not merely about the hammer. Town might refuse to give a case, in some rare cases (though I can't recall a good example), but even then town is usually willing to outright SAY they are refusing to give a case. The lewd slot didn't even do that for the majority of the game (I haven't fully caught up, so this is based on what occurred prior to 649). Instead they complained that they apparently didn't communicate as a hydra to explain reads, or they just ignore my request for a case, or there was the initial bizarre response about "inf's push", as if an action by another player created the scum read on me.

It especially bothers me because it looks very much like an initial RVS vote, but they are sticking to it as if it's based on something more solid when it clearly isn't.

[Penguinos]

I don't agree. Scum "intend" to lynch anyone they can, they are neither picky nor selective. They might not have jumped on the wagon expecting to see an actual hammer, but they certainly wouldn't be disappointed with that result. The same *could* be true with LnR. Scum could have jumped on my wagon, not really "intending" to hard lynch L&R but they would be pretty happy if it led to a lynch anyway- unless L&R is scum.

To the first part, I haven't read your interactions with the slot in depth. I will do so when I have more time.

To the second part, "scum jumping on the wagon and not expecting to see a lynch" kills your premise, which is the point that I was making.[/quote]

I don't get your logic. It doesn't kill me premise at all. Scum will go for a chance if the risk is outweighed by the reward. "Not expecting to see a lynch" doesn't mean there is zero chance for a lynch. If there is even a small chance of a lynch, as long as the potential risk is even lower it's a perfectly logical scum strategy.

[Penguinos]

@karnos Don't tell me you've never seen town refuse to give a case

Would actually like karnos to respond to this.

I've seen town self hammer. Just because you have seen something doesn't mean it's intelligent play.

Town should want to lynch scum. If they have a real case on me, they should present it. Instead they refuse to offer any clear case.

VOTE: Penguinos
VOTE: Transcendance

If town quick hammerer like that, scum would jump on the easy lynch opportunity. Since that hasn't happened, it is safe to say they are scum.

But it has happened; and not everyone has posted yet. Including you.

In fact, the two to jump on me were you and infinity, which is coincidentally the two people I am voting. How's the scum pt going with both members under heavy scrutiny?

Penguinos is scum.

I mean, just going through his iso, I can see his case: OMGUS. That is all it is, he essentially said so in 211. His refusal to admit that his case is based on such garbage screams scum to me. Do you think OMGUS is a valid case?

[Penguinos]

500

-Inf

The problem with that case should be obvious, see my previous post.

The lewd slot was calling me scum BEFORE post 209.

[Penguinos]

W. T. F. It should be easier to find the time to explain a case given that there are two of you, not harder.

I'm not trying to find time to explain anything.

This is scum.

[Penguinos]

This is especially horrible; why is transcendence scum if we're town?

-Rude

I don't believe a scenario exists in which no scum would jump on a terrible hammer like that, if you are town.

[Penguinos]

500

-Inf

The problem with that case should be obvious, see my previous post.

The lewd slot was calling me scum BEFORE post 209.

THAT
WAS
FUCKING
DUNNSTRAL
YOU
LITERAL
FUCKING
THREE YEAR OLD

Holyfuck.
And if you think 'oh well dunn has never actually given me a case :^)' is legitimate grounds for scumminess then HOLYFUCK
-Lewd

Fake rage detected. This is why you are scum, town would actually read my post and notice I said "The lewd slot". Do you know what slot means? I am talking about the slot, not the player.

[Penguinos]

I feel like you have absolutely no idea how a hydra works. I can imagine another game where a cop has a guilty on you, you would be screaming that your hydra partner might be scum but you aren't.

[Penguinos]

I don't buy the fake rage from HS about me asking "dunnstral" questions.

What are you trying to say here? Because it looks like you're implying that HS was masquerading as me

I'm saying that I am not directing any questions at "dunnstral" or "HS", when I ask a question I am asking the hydra.

[Penguinos]

If someone asked me a question about a post penguin made, and I didn't know the reason, I'd ask in the hydra PT. I wouldn't scream out in fake rage like lewd is doing. This is just caught scum trying to look more like town.

[Penguinos]

Meanwhile your hydra partner disagrees with this entire push afaik...

-Inf

I don't necessarily disagree with the read, but I do think our focus should be elsewhere for today.

Why should I vote Sword?

-P

[Penguinos]

I don't buy the fake rage from HS about me asking "dunnstral" questions.

What are you trying to say here? Because it looks like you're implying that HS was masquerading as me

I'm saying that I am not directing any questions at "dunnstral" or "HS", when I ask a question I am asking the hydra.

Well then you better expect two different answers.

FYI I am here and going to do an ISO read of Penguinos since Dunnstral correctly pointed out that people have been handwaving them (and I am one of those people).
-smart

1134

[Penguinos]

Spoiler: case on sword

MANTIS SHRIMP is town.

PP why are you signing?
I get it's cool you wanna tell us which head is talking
but why give that information to scum?

wat?

@giga Yeah that hammer was bad but I don't think it will happen again™ And even if they do, there's an above-average chance imo for there to be scum. Listen it's a blitz game gotta go fast y'know. I'm not about to quickhammer someone but I wouldn't mind if another "accident" were to happen you get what I mean?

bullshit detected.

Pedit: Hi Infinity are you scum again?

None of the 4 things he's said are original sentiments except for maybe the hydra signing thing which is theory. He then continues arguing that point, making it seem like he's trying to look busy.

What the actual, literal tangible fuck.

We already have hydra heads arguing with each other in the game thread and a quicklynch on page 5?

VOTE: lar

The hammer is worth a vote by itself, and I don't really like your reaction wrt it either.

VOTE: chihiro

I don't like the tone here

First few lines are kinda LAMIST, but not in a towny way.

Forgot to mention, mantis shrimp arguing with itself in-thread looks town because some people think hydra dissonance is scummy no matter what, and because it's less careful than I'd expect scum to be.

Hi smart I'm town and you better get it right this time

-Inf

This reason is bad and sounds manufactured. I may be being self-centered but it seems like you wanted to get in early on townreading a player who you thought would be come widely townread and needed a reason to do so. (For the record, I have a specific reason to townread Mantis but it's not that.)

Yeah this isn't town Infinity. I'm comfortable with calling it.

Neither one of your heads knows me well enough to say this yet. Neither one of your heads has played with scum!me afaik. Get back here and let's talk about it.

And I'm not making scummy posts smart.

-Inf

I would have expected town-you to bring up the fact that I've primarily seen your scumgame and thus might not be able to distinguish between your scum tone and your normal tone instead of just dismissing it.

I'm assuming that was jae, I can't understand how you could judge my alignment this early based off of one town game months ago. Explain.

-Inf

Tone.

Yes, my tone is different between a very high-level game (again, from months ago) and page 5 of a chaotic blitz with all hydras. And?

I don't remember you being so annoyingly arrogant, quite the opposite actually.

-Inf

Trying to explain away the tone difference instead of just trying to prove you're town.

You're trying to shift this to me when you're the one being called out: why wouldn't I have answered...?

You always refuse to explain your reads

Forgive me if I'm a little bit snippy after you quickhammered someone on page 3

What are you talking about?

You called my reasons for townreading mantis bad. I said you can go fuck yourself.

-Inf

Second line feels forced. As Rafiki would say, "It doesn't matter! It was in the past!" IMO this sounds more like carrying over your LAMIST from 113.

You always refuse to explain your reads

Forgive me if I'm a little bit snippy after you quickhammered someone on page 3

So you don't actually think I'm scum, but want to policy me because I quickhammered a guy? If you had just said that, I'd have felt a lot better, but trying to justify it with shoddy reasoning makes you look really bad

Also, you don't talk like that as town.

Nah, I'm pissed at you, and also think you are likely scum

I was saying my tone is different because the game is different

what's the difference between a high-level game without hydra, and a high-level game with all hydra, if you're just talking on your own

It affects how I approach the game

This game I'm more high energy and matter-of-fact way of speaking whereas in a slower, more serious game I'd be more unsure and thoughtful

-Inf

This one's a personal tell, but I know I tend to describe my own playstyles more as scum. And yes you were asked a question but this sounds like a calculated description.
-smart

Then he gives his reasons for scumreading me which, looking back, feel like he's trying to justify instead of figure out. I'd expect town!him to word it less confidently for one, since he didn't appear super sure and his points aren't really that strong anyway. Also, the whole thing is mainly picking on wording, which is easy to do even if you don't look in depth (which smart definitely is not).

"My tone is much different because this is an unusual game.
Why the heck is your tone so much different?"
-smart

His first original point. (it is a good point, but still)

I don't think they've said anything alignment indicative.

What's that supposed to mean

They've talked plenty

I think that everything they had said before that post could have been said by either alignment fairly easily.
-smart

Stop fencesitting. Gun to your head, choose.

Out of curiosity, what's your read on Slaughterhouse Five?
-smart

They haven't posted.

Stop fencesitting.

Have I illustrated my point though? Fencesitting is where you could do either way. In this case, I could go neither way because I don't have enough information.
-smart

Well that's one way to know who's posting.

They haven't posted.

Stop fencesitting.

Have I illustrated my point though? Fencesitting is where you could do either way. In this case, I could go neither way because I don't have enough information.
-smart

I literally took a stance in the next sentence when I said associations make them town.

You're missing the point, and FYI you shouldn't have a read on a slot that hasn't posted.
-smart

More focusing on small points, meanwhile he's only given 2 reads. Town without a lot of reads a this point wants to get more and not get caught up in minutia.

i mean i believe that karnos wasnt online but i dont really see why you shouldnt vote your scumread

Meh. Vote or "hurt." Who the F cares. I did what I did when I did for the reasons I said I did. Keep trying to reach.

ew
-smart

Throwing shade and not committing or looking in depth

Hey I'm here. Still don't know where Ari is though.

I still think Transcendence is scum but I don't want them flipped today. If they did flip town (of which I think there's a decent chance because my Infinity read is hella colored by past games) then we'd be screwed.

Penguinos is an easy lynch, independent of their alignment. I got townfeels and scumfeels from the slot, but it's tricky not having experience with either head.

Chihiro is tricky (almost all the reads in this game are tricky, okay); I'd genuinely lean town (versus before, when I just said town to be a smartass), due to a few examples of town mindset where their reasoning includes the implicit assumption that they are town.

Leaning fairly towny on LewdandRude based on their play, and my experience with Dunn corroborates this.

Hella paranoid on E&A, but I haven't gotten any warning bells from their posts. I think more from RC, particularly once he starts making his reads clear, will help there, and FA's tone isn't bad (which is how I think she needs to be read).

S5 needs to post more.

Town: MANTIS SHRIMP
Null/town: LewdandRude, Chihiro and Alter Ego
Null: Elsa and Anna, Slaugherhouse Five, Penguinos
Null/scum: Transcendence

The only real analysis in this post is wrt chihiro, and his points there all ended up being very weak. There is a lot of "this is how I'm trying to read this slot" which looks LAMIST to me where town would just want to give the conclusion and explain how they got there. I mean, at least with my read on E&A I've given some towny things they did and some things that bothered me.

Also, if smart was really this unsure about everyone, his tone overall would probably be a lot different and he'd be asking a lot more probing questions.

VOTE: Slaughterhouse Five
Found who I want to lynch today.
-smart

Pings everywhere
-smart

This shit and disappear for half an hour seems like scum needing to take a breather. If he was town and busy or needed a break I think he'd say so.

Also, this kinda seems like he's jumping on the opportunity to have a strong scumread since he didn't have any before.

Well I guess we are at an impasse then.
-smart

I think town!smart tries to engage with me here because of our history together and because apparently he's still unsure about my alignment. Instead he knows I caught him so he's given up on that front and is instead content with his excuse to vote me even though he stopped trying to sort me (well, never really tried in the first place).

PEdit: Not really, I was the first vote on you and the second on sword

He said "can gain steam", not "is already gaining steam".
-smart

Most town wouldn't find the need to do this, especially at a time of high tensions I think he'd have other stuff to focus on.

Also, what do you think about Transcendence completely dropping their townread on us?

Again, didn't like that he asked dunn before he commented himself

I think you're either a moron or a scumbag. Or possibly both.

Again, didn't like what was essentially a non-answer here. Of course this is true from his pov, but he doesn't try to find out which and doesn't give his thoughts on why it would be one or the other.

Looking back at this ISO has made me more confident. Basically, a large portion of it is either not related to this specific game, or something someone already said (I didn't point out everything because there was too much, but yeah). His reasons for scumreading people do not look like ones town would find if they were genuinely looking through, but instead things like wording. His reads don't develop organically or change much with new information. He never says things like "town could be thinking this, scum could be thinking this", it's all surface level bullshit. It's just hard to imagine he's making a real effort to figure things out.

I'm kinda nervous so I may not be looking at this super objectively but I hope I'm at least a little bit convincing.

-Inf

I don't see it.

-P

[Penguinos]

VOTE: Transcendence

I like several people on this wagon.

[Penguinos]

true true. the hammer was very clearly survivalistic. I want to at least hear their explanation first though.

It was completely self-preservative. K and I were unsure on that slot, but there was a healthy enough fear, I didn't like the SoD case, and we knew we were town, so we dropped the hammer with, what, two hours left? I liked SoD and SF, and L&R not being on the wagon helped.

[Penguinos]

Also, please explain why you thought hammering was a good idea when you were ~500 posts behind. Did you not care about those posts?

That's a complete misrep. K said he needed an hour, maybe a bit more to catch up. The hammer was well past that, and we discussed before it was dropped.

[Penguinos]

All this self-deprecation is quite annoying.

[Penguinos]

Dunno. K doesn't like you. I need to talk more to him, but I know he won't be back until tomorrow.

Also, self-deprecation does not require falsity.

[Penguinos]

also so karnos has a scumread of me... what about you? i get you guys like being synced up and thats fine but why out his read and not your own?

Thought that was implied with my need to talk to him. I have a townread on you.

[Penguinos]

Why didn't you mention this when you hammered?

Besides the uncertainty/fear part...we did.

[Penguinos]

Let's lynch Penguinos before we run out of day to assess the flip please.

I actually am ok with this. Our slot is noise to the rest of the players currently, and karnos isn't likely to come back due to some RL issues he told me about, so you may as well flip us. Should clear things up

I am suspect of A&E though. Can't express it...just their posts set off the warning lights. Never played with either of them before, though, so that may be why.

[Penguinos]

Also Penguinos I personally can't tell if you're town for attempting to make that appeal or scum trying to derail you're own wagon.

Not really sure how you expect me to answer that...

One of the two of you have played with me before, though.

[Penguinos]

It's lewd & mantis or it's lewd & e&a. Those are my reads. -karnos

I know I have been absent awhile, and I don't have time right now to read everything and catch up, but if you have a specific question for me ask now and I'll answer.

[Penguinos]

Mantis- gross day 1 inconsistencies, and what could potentially be a scum gambit of pushing flip flop to l-1 and immediately hammering to make neither one look as guilty as otherwise.

[Penguinos]

I would not say anyone is confirmed town in this game except my own slot. I am not in favor of lynching sword or chihiro based on PoE, there being much more likely scum from flipping other hydras.

[Penguinos]

That was penguin. And I'm not caught up on reading the thread, maybe something happened in the last 10-15 pages. -karnos

[Penguinos]

Anyway, back to lewd. Since it looks like I might get lynched, better put this out on the table.

This is Dunnstral hammering without giving time for a claim, notice,or anything else, as town. (As a bonus, I am scum in this game, so if you want to read and see my scum play knock yourself out.)

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... start=1000

Compare that with his reaction upon accidentally hammering this game:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p8778402

Totally different reaction. Town dunnstral was apologetic, reiterated he was town, explained that he had to hammer because his wagon was the alternative. Dunnstral as lewd laughs it off with an LOL, and them immediately tunnels anyone who took issue with his fucking terrible hammer.

So. Question is what is more likely? Did Dunnstral change his play-style dramatically in the last 6 months (he didn't), or is Dunnstral just playing different because he is scum? He is scum.

[Penguinos]

Let's clear things up: I had voted you and transcendence regardless of any hammering on flip flop

You're trying to claim that I voted you in reaction to something you said about my hammer

Thats what I kept trying to get out of you: what is your case on me, other than OMGUS?

Your failure to explain it made me ignore it. If you want to now use that as some explanation why your push isn't just extended OMGUS, please explain your case.

[Penguinos]

UNVOTE:

I don't see this flipping scum

why are sure about lewd hydra being town?

#Elsa

Because mantis is his scum partner.

[Penguinos]

[quote="In [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 7#p8811987]
i still prefer penguinos by a significant margin [/quote]


You are wrong. You literally scum read me every single game. In one game it worked out, because I actually drew scum. In the other game you just contributed to a town loss.

If you are scum, by all means continue with the terrible reads. If you are town, think things through and give reasons for your read.

[Penguinos]

Bleh. That was mantis who I mangle-quoted.

[Penguinos]

I've had a bad gut feel about A&E since the beginning, but that whole interaction was just...wowzers. I can't stand that.

VOTE: E&A

k can unvote if he wants, but my internal alarms are going off.

[Penguinos]

To answer both above, no, I have never played with FA. Don't care, and logic won't be changing my mind.

Convince K.

[Penguinos]

Then what will change your mind? Rope?

Pretty much. I'm locked in, so you can either lynch me or present a case for K to look at.

Up to you.

p-edit

Nope.

[Penguinos]

I'm a stubborn asshat, so when I reach a point where my internal alarm goes off...not moving. For anything.

As long as it's not L&R this game, I would expect K to be more open to reason and logic than me at this point.

[Penguinos]

Never expressed a desire for him to.

[Penguinos]

But you said you wouldn't mind if he did. Which doesn't fit with your claim that you're apparently stubborn once you lock onto something.
-smart

No, I didn't. I said he could unvote if he wants to. I said nothing about my feelings about it if he did (note: this is a shared account, and I can't stop him from doing it).

Your verbal posturing is starting to irritate me.

[Penguinos]

VOTE: LewdandRude
VOTE: Elsa and Anna
VOTE: MANTIS SHRIMP

[Penguinos]

There are no scumteams that make any sense without Penguinos being scum.

This is what convinces me you are scum.

I know neither of you are terrible players, there is no way you could be this blatantly wrong as town.

[Penguinos]

L&R and E&A. Good-luck town. Lynch lewd first, he is most obvious scum.