Micro 688: Greater Idea Mafia: Game Over

[Jaack]

So uh

I somehow read gladiator as bulletproof.

Yeah

[Jaack]

I'm a tracker.

[Jaack]

I have a bit of time here, but I'm not sure exactly what y'all want me to respond to. I only took a quick glance at my pm and my brain went to bp not gladiator.

I claimed my role because:
1. I was asked
2. I had multiple people advocating my lynch and was reasonibly close to being lynched before I even posted.
3. I screwed up by misreading my pm and wanted to get out in front.

jaack's claim is tracker - which is provable.

There's 2 town trackers and 2 mafia trackers in the deck, so theoretically, if jaack isn't lying about his role (which I don't think he is, because it's provable) he has a 50% chance of being scum, that's over double the average

I do wanna address this. Since GuiltyLion discarded a mafia tracker, there's only one other scum one left for me to possibly get, so the odds would be 2/3 town, 1/3 scum.

---
While I'd normally look for the scum on my qagon, I'm actually feeling more strongly that there is scum in the people who have avoided my wagon. There's less incentive for scum to join a wagon like mine because it's the type of mislynch town can do on there own.

VOTE: ConManMick

I didn't particularly like his Dunn vote.

1. He didn't address me, the primary topic of the time
2. Dunn would be a smart push after I get mislynched - he's heavily involved in my wagon, but has also sort of danced around it.

[Jaack]

Jaack what are your thoughts on alban

Eh. I'm not in love with his whole "We can lynch Jaack, but let's wait for him to come back" thing, but I don't have to squint all that hard to see him doing that as town.

He's scummy enough to be on my radar but probably not scummy enough to vote.

[Jaack]

Jaack what are your thoughts on alban

Eh. I'm not in love with his whole "We can lynch Jaack, but let's wait for him to come back" thing, but I don't have to squint all that hard to see him doing that as town.

He's scummy enough to be on my radar but probably not scummy enough to vote.

but the thing you said you wanted to look at in 144 was people avoiding your wagon, because your lynch could presumably go through on its own with town pushing it.

Then you have alban right over there doing exactly what you said you would look for, soft defending you and avoiding your wagon, and you take a surface level weak look at him, and dismiss it

Not really liking this response

I looked at both alban and Mick because they were the two people I most felt like had avoided my wagon. I found Mick to be scummier of the two for the reasons I gave in 144.

I never dismissed the possibilty of alban being scum. He's on my radar, but I'm not super enthused for a wagon there on the moment - I'd much rather be voting Mick.

PEdit - what is this

[Jaack]

I don't really see the advantage of lynching ThinkBig today tbh. If he is vengeful it's better just to lynch who we'd prefer him to vengekill and I'm thinking he probably is vengeful at this point. Yeah, I could see scum pulling some sort of "I'm vengeful hurdurlol" play but he basically handed creature the hammer.

I think there's a decent chance TTTT is scum

I agree with this. Mick and TTTT are the good choices for a lynch.

[Jaack]

VOTE: TTTT

Should be L-2

Let's roll

[Jaack]

Eh not a big fan of this creature wagon (or like semI wagon I guess)

Town tier list:

People who are pretty evidently town:
Dunnstral
GuiltyLion

Pepole who are more than likely town, but I'm not feeling it quite as strongly as the above tier:
Transcend
Creature
Think big

People who I wouldn't be outright opposed to lynching but I'm not going to spend any effort to get lynched unless they do some more scummy stuff:
Alban

People that ought to be lynched and quickly:
ConManMick
TTTT

[Jaack]

Okay, here's my TTTT scumcase

Let's begin with his first kinda real vote

Actually VOTE: jaaaaaaack

Someone hammer this confscum.

Now TTTT was the third person to offer some level of interest in lynching me based on my discard, after Dunnstral (who started it) and Transcend. But unlike those two, this is the only mention he makes of it. Or me at all for that matter. I go from confscum to not worth mentioning pretty quickly.

Then there's the ThinkBig stuff. TTTT has made two significant/serious pushes/votes and they've been on me and ThinkBig, both for role junk and not from actual reads. That's two examples of lazy pushes with no examples of real scumhunting. Since it's based on roles and claims and junk it's a lot easier to write off participaction on a mislynch. Furthermore, it doesn't help with soting out anyone else's alignments.

And then there's this thing:

UNVOTE:

if TB is vengeful...
if we don't lynch TB he gets NK'd (bad)
if we do lynch TB he might kill me (BAD)
or someone else (meh)

if TB is scum...
he ded (GOOD)

He's now claimed jester and vengeful townie
that's scum-play
VOTE: Thinkbig

TTTT unvotes the wagon and evaluates the vengeful claim. That's alright in a vacuum, but then he votes Thinkbig again because his two claims are 'scum-play' but the two claims went down prior to the unvote. It doesn't feel to me like he's town evaluating the claim and deciding it stinks. It reads like scum who had already decided to remain on the wagon trying to look like a good cautious townie evaulating the claim.


The rest of his iso is mostly blah questions. TTTT never mentions alban before or after 177, so I have no reason he was actually interested in alban's meta. But furthermore the question was absolutely pointless since transcend had just said he was going to provide quotes (172). This is a textbook 'gotta look busy' question.

TTTT also asks dunnstral three times to explain his Mick read, when Dunnstral already had (159). If he's that interested in Dunnstral's read don't you think he'd have checked Dunn's iso

All in all, there's nothing that's an outright smoking gun to me, but TTTT is neither putting himself out there with any real opinions nor does it look like he's really trying to sort anyone out.

[Jaack]

"confscum" Jaaack was clearly an RVS joke
OK maybe it wasn't that clear

I figured you might try and spin it off that way. But the context doesn't look that way at all.

You had already just made an RVS joke vote (31) and the wagon on me was very real at the time. It doesn't raed at all like a joke vote to me. And even if it were just a RVS joke, it's still a pro-scum vote.

@Jaaaack
if this is a good-faith effort to sort me feel free to ask questions
but I'm not the type that goes out of the way to defend my play

I'm pretty sure that you're scum and I've given my reasons. I don't have any questions other than 'Explain all that stuff I just talked about?' But if anything else comes to mind, I'll be sure to let you know.

PEdit:

ThinkBig has claimed jester and vengeful
And then he

literally gave a list of vengeful targets

someone plz how that's coming from town

ThinkBig also vote himself to L-1, gave town the hammer, and didn't unvote when someone (creature) actually threatened to do so. How is that coming from scum? I could see vengeful town doing all that junk. I can't see scum advocating their own lynch at that point in the game.

[Jaack]

I go from confscum to not worth mentioning pretty quickly.

this line is what i find most scummy about Jaack's push on TTTT, it's designed around shading TTTT in a disingenuous way, I don't think Jaack actually believes TTTT was serious in calling him confscum.

I went through why I believe it was a serious vote.

TTTT had already made a jokish RVS vote immediately preceding his vote on me.
There were two serious votes on me already.

I'm not just going to write that off a joke vote.

[Jaack]

These were literally posted one minute apart...

I blocked TTTT's profile pic using adblocker

VOTE: Dunn

Actually VOTE: jaaaaaaack

Someone hammer this confscum.

I put seven A's in his name and called him confscum on page 2
totally serious vote, right?
or maybe I realized there was an opportunity to fake an L-1 vote to set-up someone to fake-hammer
based on the VC at pagetop and two more quick votes on Jaaack before mine (but it was really L-2 though as the original vote was also Dunn's)

1. Yes the two votes were one minute apart. I don't see why that precludes the second vote from being serious. You made a joke vote and then immediately joined what was clearly a serious wagon.

2. Putting seven A's in my name doesn't make it a joke post. I've probably been voted seriously with more A's before. Hell, here's serious a post from you in this game that uses four A's

@Jaaaack
if this is a good-faith effort to sort me feel free to ask questions
but I'm not the type that goes out of the way to defend my play

3. Is that "set-up for a fake hammer" the real reason behind the vote? Because if it is, then why did you try to write the vote off as a joke when I first brought it up?
-----

You know, I don't mind talking about this joke/real vote stuff, but it was only a part of my full case in 290.

[Jaack]

I'm not talking about the vote itself, I'm talking about the "confscum" remark, which was obviously a joke. Are you intentionally missing my point here?

My concern has always been with it being a serious vote that TTTT never followed up on.

I mean yeah, I get that TTTT wasn't literally calling me actual confscum. But it was pretty clearly a serious vote. Which has been my primary concern all along. I could explain it all again, but I'll just quote myself for the sake of laziness:

TTTT has made two significant/serious pushes/votes and they've been on me and ThinkBig, both for role junk and not from actual reads. That's two examples of lazy pushes with no examples of real scumhunting. Since it's based on roles and claims and junk it's a lot easier to write off participaction on a mislynch. Furthermore, it doesn't help with soting out anyone else's alignments.

I made a pretty substantial case against TTTT but we've chosen to focus on like one small bitlit of it. I could argue more semanitc junk about a seven word post from page two if you want, but I'd much rather discuss the actualy meat and potatoes of my case.

[Jaack]

My concern has always been with it being a serious vote that TTTT never followed up on.

I mean yeah, I get that TTTT wasn't literally calling me actual confscum.

see but MY concern is that you acted like you didn't get that when you said:

I go from confscum to not worth mentioning pretty quickly.

Regardless of whether his vote was serious or not, you pretended like he was calling you "confscum" as if he had a strong SR that merits followup.

I wasn't intending to misrep TTTT at all. I think I've been pretty clear this entire time what my concerns with TTTT have been.

I never pretended that TTTT believed me to be confirmed scum. I could have easily said 'main scumread' as opposed to 'confscum' in my case and it wouldn't have changed the actual content of what I was saying.

I do think that his vote looks serious enough that he should at least address later on. But despite having significant back and forth between us, I still have no idea what his read is on me at this point (for that matter, I'm not sure what most of his reads are. Aside from the obvious ThinkBig scumread and I think he has alluded to a Dunn townread as well). Overall it feeds back into what I've been saying. TTTT has shown virtually no effort into discerning alignments and I think that he's scum because of it.
----

I can agree with your "meat and potatoes" that TTTT made two pushes on role junk and doesn't help with sorting someone else's alignment. You can keep chasing that if you want. But if you keep throwing in misreps or twisting his words beyond their actual meaning then I will encourage everyone else in this game to lynch you instead of him.

Let me clarify some of this -
1. Do you agree with what I've said about TTTT?
2. I might be reading this wrong, but you are acting like I have misrepped TTTT multiple times. Are you just talking about this 'confscum' thing or is there something else?

[Jaack]

@mod - you have ThinkBig listed in the vote count as a living player - is this accurate?

[Jaack]

I tracked Transcend and he went nowhere.

[Jaack]

Whelp that's that I guess

[Jaack]

I tracked Transcend and he went nowhere.

Quickly tell me why you tracked me please. I feel like you wouldn't track me out of everyone in the game.

I figured that if TTTT or Mick were scum they wouldn't be the one to nk because they'd assume I'd track them.

It was a toss up between you and creature as people I thought were town but could see as scum if one of my other reads was wrong.

[Jaack]

I'm pretty sure there have to be two partnered mafia. The re-roll PMs said there have to be an informed majority of mafia or mimes. I guess there could be two living mimes, and two independent killing roles (two vigs or vig+sk or 2 sk).

PEdit - well there's one claim.

[Jaack]

Isn't TTTT basically confirmed scum at this point? Since the rest of us non Dunn people are here at the same time.

[Jaack]

D2 I was pretty sure that the scum team was mick and TTTT and transcend was an invest immune sk.

[Jaack]

Also the me thinking it was BP was a total lie. I just didn't want to be gladiator because I'm not ballsy enough to 1v1 someone D1.

I discarded 1 shot BP in the secondo discard so it sounded like a good excuse at the time.

[Jaack]

Yeah it was dumb, but I was sober at the time and now I'm not and can realize that.

I still think I had the best town D1 tho which isn't saying much based on these results.