Micro 693: The Simpsons Mafia II (Game Over)

[Hiraki]

egopost

[Hiraki]

Vote: Charloux

[Hiraki]

Nah, sorry that was a bad vote. I did it randomly without reading thoroughly.

Only thing I read was that there were 3 votes on Alisae and, although I wanted to join that wagon, I didn't want to put it to L-1 considering multiple games that I've been in as of late that have created a quickhammer situation that was taken advantage of.

Unvote, Vote: Edosurist

[Hiraki]

How come you wanted to join the Alisae wagon?

Who doesn't like a fun little L-1 on Page 1?

[Hiraki]

Hiraki dies next for not voting Alisae.

Ok but you were in Nightman so you understand that I'm not lying about the quickhammer stuff when it happened TWICE that game.

[Hiraki]

Hiraki dies next for not voting Alisae.

Ok but you were in Nightman so you understand that I'm not lying about the quickhammer stuff when it happened TWICE that game.

lylo was sped up by a day in that game so this really isn't an arguement.

It happened two days and I can keep going with the current meta of just going after quickhammers in non-LYLO and not caring about the side effects.

viewtopic.php?f=83&t=70233

And I'm sure there's games without me in them. It's just a no-no for me. NAI for both sides at any rate.

[Hiraki]

That sounds like something you say before you shoot them when they bring it up tho

:^)

[Hiraki]

he was a good guy in that game tho :'(

F

[Hiraki]

Unvote, Vote: CommKnight

Besides, this is a much better place to park my vote.

[Hiraki]

Since when does dayvig end a day?

[Hiraki]

Votes should just reset, no? I'm still operating on the premise that you're not screwing around.

[Hiraki]

I'll take your word for it.

[Hiraki]

I've had enough to know that a survivor claim is 9/10 real, and the survivor normally gets lynched on the day of claim.

I don't agree with this. It's a waste of a lynch. It helps decrease the number of scum. (Instead of 8 possibilities, it becomes 7 - 2/7 if you assume 2 scum v/s 2/8)

It becomes worse as the days go on due to the possibility of the survivor defecting to the scumside.

I think it's a long shot to assume that Maggie is scum right now from the opening paragraph. And even if it is the case, these games are normally given fake roles / characters so right now, character speculation is pointless.

Why did you assume speculation? I think he's role searching. What are the odds that there's a lyncher looking for at least one of the Simpsons?

But really, the game was most likely 6v2+1 so you shooting a guy you don't like right off the bat is bad play assuming you are town.

Considering the circumstances, it might not be.

But I don't ever see Alisea making this play. He's shooting blanks.

lol

They obviously messed up and showed thier hand,

because it looks like actions are supposed to be submitted to the mod

Hello?

Unvote, Vote: Vaxkiller

[Hiraki]

Vaxkiller, why do I feel like you had something to do with this?

[Hiraki]

Vote: Vaxkiller

[Hiraki]

You think that scum would waste what essentially looks like a 1-shot on D1? Not in a LYLO situation?

[Hiraki]

Your argument states that scum shot Alisae in order to frame Vaxkiller. Why not just try to lynch Vaxkiller and save the shot for a much better time?

[Hiraki]

OK - I see what you're saying now. I was thinking that the shot ended the day but you bring up a better point.

Unvote

[Hiraki]

But the vig shot would occur at the day end. The day wasn't close to ending.

[Hiraki]

If you initially thought that scum Vax was already involved in the kill, then why wouldn't it be possible that Vax could be involved in that supposed day-ending ability? Hiraki, your moves just seem erratic to me.

There's a better scenario where it was done in order to frame Vax for the reasons previously stated.

Whether that's what the quote refers to or not, I'm unsettled by the fact that THAT is the logic that swayed you.

Because any day kills would occur at the end of the day. This is getting a little annoying so I'm going to let mod explain. If I'm wrong, my vote goes back on.

@Mod: If there is a 1-shot kill ability (regardless of alignment), does that trigger the day to end if there is an action received to kill?

In my understanding, as Claroux stated to me and made sense, the vig does

NOT

trigger a day phase end. Instead, something else did it. Therefore, the something else (which could be Vaxkiller) did it in order to frame Vaxkiller. My initial understanding was that Vaxkiller might have had a gun and used it to end the day which is what you are implying and I originally implied.

[Hiraki]

If anyone needs more clarification, ask the mod yourself. That makes it pretty clear for me. Thank you.

[Hiraki]

The chances of the wagon dying down were 100%. We were on Page 3 after all.

[Hiraki]

Before we lynch anyone - can we wait for Simple Plan to show up? He hasn't posted all game.

[Hiraki]

He's a survivor. If there are 3 scum and they come out full blow, he's going to go with them.

[Hiraki]

That was toward the Charloux quote, by the way.

[Hiraki]

Guilty, who do you think is better atm - Vax or Comm?

[Hiraki]

Who said I'm a cop?

[Hiraki]

Or by reading the thread...

[Hiraki]

I don't see Comm flipping scum after making that comment.

Vote: Vaxkiller

I'm starting to feel much better about the mafia mistake more than before. I would like to hear more from Simple and Edo.

1 Shot is an OK alternative given a re-read. Vax flip helps a lot with understanding 1 Shot's alignment tbh.

But I don't ever see Alisea making this play. He's shooting blanks.

Do you have meta against this?

Have you had a lot of experience with survivors and survivor claims?
I've had enough to know that a survivor claim is 9/10 real, and the survivor normally gets lynched on the day of claim.

People normally have mixed views and say that survivor is an anti town role due to the voting potential. I disagree, as I think it's a person by person case.

I've not seen anyone on MS scum claim survivor as Mafia (Doesn't mean it hasn't happened), so I don't think the claim here is Mafia, and if anything, 3rd party regardless.

We also have no knowledge of the actual amount of town, or VT's. Again, for day 1 at least this is irrelevant information.
I also do not count a dayvig in nightless as bastard in towns favor.

This irks me because you never actually put your input in. Never realized it first time around.

You seem to have more intel than others so far though concerning what people do and don't have.

In hindsight, this looks cheeky, assuming that Vax is town.

[Hiraki]

It's when someone wants to vote the leading wagon, lynch off town and when it comes down to it, they can say that they were pushing else where.

No, I think I've very clearly stated my reasons for voting Vax in other posts. I even preface all of this in the same post.

Do I have meta with Alisae? I have some, yes.

That was not the question. Do you have any meta that would make Alisae NOT use this move?

The fact I wasn't voting there or pushing there would be the indication.

So you don't think he's a survivor? What do you think Charloux is then?

Why are you assuming that Vax is town, yet voting him up?

Again, this had nothing to do with Vax and everything to do with you. Vax's flip either incriminates you or clears you, in my eyes.

Why are you asking who's better to vote when you haven't spoken about Comm

I have spoken about and to Comm. Just because you used Control + F doesn't mean you read my posts. Based on our interactions, I do not think he will flip scum.

What out of ASP's post made you decide to vote Vax? Or was it a case of him just posting?

I have not indicated anywhere that I used ASP's logic for my own vote.

What made you think that they were going to vote with 3 scum? Where did you even get 3 scum out of that comment?

What made me think that a survivor was going to vote with 3 scum in order to win the game?

Jeez, I dunno - game theory? That's exactly why Charloux made that comment in the first place.

If you read the game, then why do you not recall the suvivor claiming BP and therefore thinking that there will be more kills?

Survivor 1-Shot BP.

Frankly, the fact that you haven't questioned him and somehow think that he claimed Survivor as a 1-Shot BP is a little more daunting.

[Hiraki]

I know I've seen that role before.

[Hiraki]

Most of that wall is actually very antagonistic and implies my inability to either read or read a 7 page game. I wrote something out but then deleted it because it's inefficient to talk to you when I already have my VI read set.

Unless you have any reason he shouldn't be lynched?

Because there's no reason someone who is assuming cop claims out of the blue is probably scum.

[Hiraki]

I'll do what I want to do tbh

[Hiraki]

I don't see Comm flipping scum after making that comment.

[Hiraki]

Comm, there are people who haven't spoken for longer and you care about him?

[Hiraki]

What an alignment indicative move...

[Hiraki]

Hiraki, he didn't even say ASP was acting alignment indicative.

so why make a fit about it

it's not like anything is depending on him - it's a clear mark of pressure for a player that has made no further posts

Guilty, who do you think is better atm - Vax or Comm?

ehhh Comm I guess but only slightly

does that mean you feel like me and you don't like any of the choices that much

[Hiraki]

Anyway, I'm wondering what happened to this one.

=

fit

Yeah, nice job including the other quote that demonstrates that he's literally counting down 24 hours for one person rather than other people who haven't spoken for longer.

ROFL, they were asking for ppl to post more and I agreed.

No, they asked one person specifically to post more. I made that clear from my post.

[Hiraki]

guilty - what is scummy about Comm and why did you just vote Vax after I asked you that question?

[Hiraki]

Do you think that Comm/Vax could be scum together?

[Hiraki]

I agree with 206 but 207 is from cheeky scum so I'm not moving anymore.

Pre-edit:

I was not buddying you at all earlier.

[Hiraki]

need a lot more from ASP/Edo before I'm gonna start doing associatives

not looking for associations, just reads without explicitly asking for them but you kind of answered it so its ok

[Hiraki]

Hiraki, he didn't even say ASP was acting alignment indicative.

Shade.

217 is a blantant overreaction. I don't think GL ever implied that his rule was a hard set rule and I'm pretty sure he used that for pressure reasons tbh.

[Hiraki]

I'm going to need you to write a fucking thesis on this, becase I'm not understand how you made this leap. Please, explain in great detail how I threw shade on Hiroki.

This post annoys the crap outta me on so many levels.

ANd the fucking creme de la creme.

[Hiraki]

My apologies - I see the mistake. I was talking about 216.

[Hiraki]

Time isn't a reason to post.

[Hiraki]

I don't like my Vax vote but I also hate 1SVT v/s Comm. If I had to choose, I'd choose 1SVT because my VI read on Comm is strong atm. but I also don't think that's scum tbh

@Charloux - why did you say you're not willing to lynch outside of the two and then not insert your comment on the two or vote on either wagon?

[Hiraki]

"help push for a claim like a real town would"

i don't need your help to play this game, THANKS

[Hiraki]

Then Hiraki says time is not a reason to post. YEAH IT IS. Being inactive is bullshit and not a reason to delay posting because others don't post. You then create a cycle of not posting.

Just to throw back to this, can you fuck off about me being inactive? Here are some facts for you:

1) When you posted that I was inactive last, I posted on the last page - so not even 10 posts before.
2) When you say that people are being inactive, not only is it counterproductive but just plain stupid - you've never once asked a player that you believed was disengaged from the game to give you their opinion of something that happened in the game. If there were other players here, that's grounds for a SR tbh - I can see the VI tho
3) I have the second highest post-count in the game
4) Because you want something does not mean SHIT for what I want - regardless of whether or not we are the same alignment and the fact that you're going around calling people scum (i.e. toward me and GL) for not abandoning our reads for YOUR reads is not only VERY annoying but just flat-out NAI

If you want me to be completely and utterly honest (i.e. I'm really not in the mood to respond to any bad questions you propose) here's why I can't join either of your wagons:

1) ASP

Based upon reasons, I'm convinced Comm is town. I'm willing to say my top townread, even.

"Based upon reasons" is literally "I don't have reasons" or "I have hidden reasons"

Comm's argument regarding the 180 on Vax was something I hadn't really paid mind to due to a bad case to begin with, but I don't see where the original argument was going that being framed wasn't in the realm of possibility for him. All the debate was doing was introducing WIFOM, and to introduce it further in the form of a vote based upon seemingly no other reason was terrible. It made me curious at first about a night action confirming it, but unvoting (hadn't really paid attention to the context) negated that possibility and proved to me that it was JUST a bad case.

This doesn't make sense to me and sounds like blather. Why would a bad case equate to scum?

I wouldn't be opposed to an Edosurist lynch based upon incredibly early play. If a complete 180 is to be believed as valid lynch reasoning, 74-75 going from "being dumb... Trash..." To voting is terrible.

This is the only good thing out of current ASP play and it's not something I would follow-up on since there are possibilities of replacements.

2) 1SVT

91 you say it's someone above that made the shot. (Vax hadn't posted) 115 you put believe in Vax making the shot?

This is a very good pick-up and one of the main reasons I cannot ever join a 1SVT wagon. We can agree to disagree here that the end result is different - 1SVT thinks it'll be a scum flip, I'm pretty certain in my VI read.

Out of all of the people that I'm examining, this is the only vote that I can somewhat agree with

3) Comm

I almost don't want to do this part because I have to deal with Comm eventually responding and being butthurt that anyone would ever criticize his masterful play but w/e. Here are some quotes that solidify my VI read:

But as said before, you over defense of Vax at this stage is rather suspicious. Want to hear my theory? It's rather good.

- Press on Vax D1 for town cred.
- Knowingly, your faction can end the day before he's lynched.
- Press again on Vax D2 but slowly pull off and hope everyone buys the "it's a setup" story.
- Vax stands a real chance of meeting the noose again, so let's fake outrage and drama over something to distract town from these possibilities.

Pretty good eh?

(no)

Fact remains, there's 8 of us alive, at least 2 are anti-town. Excluding myself that leaves a nice 28.6% chance if I were randomly taking pot shots. But add in the factor of 1SVT's tunneling on mundane things and his over-defense of Vax and I think we have someone here who is trying to buddy people.

zzzzz

Also, Hiraki's buddying of me feels kinda odd.

(feel free to read my posts where I don't buddy Comm at all)

P.S. Making my bet on it right now for post-game fun.

Now fast forward to now. Town should want claims.

It's a slip. He fucked up. Now he's going to be put to L1 and claim for us or eat rope.

(there is no slip and if there was then Comm would be pushing it in everyone's faces atm)

@GuiltyLion What are your thoughts on both Hiraki and 1SVT. Hiraki was sorta buddying me earlier and 1SVT was buddying Vax. Which if you don't like either me or Vax, then what does that say about the two people who are both buddying and casting shadow on people regularly?

(response to GL's answer is not present - for such a loaded question, not having a dialogue is really bad but its ok because this is a VI :):):) )

Legit, think about 1SVT and Hiraki for a moment. My read on Vax is leaning towards town lately because of their shadowy playstyle so far today.

hey i wonder who has the most amount of posts in this game???? oh its me and 1SVT, good job doing any sort of fact checking

So Vax, I need you to to see two town are on 1SVT right now and scum are avoiding an easy wagon if we were voting town.

(this is so forced toward an agenda)

I'm kind of done with that fun.

4) Vax

Commknight wants claims bad:

Also we should probably push for a role claim at the very least here. Letting him off scot-free is dangerous move as town.

This one is in reference to me.

Honestly, if 1SVT isn't going to read the game, then he can be useful and claim.

Today doesn't end without your claim 1SVT.

He's reading the same person I think as VI for these reasons as scum. I would think that Vax is a little better to do this (which is kind of why I voted him in conjunction to the shot) but I could just be wrong.

I would honestly rather use PoE here and end it down to Edo/ASP/Vax because I don't have hard TRs on them.

[Hiraki]

whichever of Edo or Comm posts first gets my final TR and doesn't get lynched using my god hand special technique

[Hiraki]

vote: Comm

Not a VI anymore

[Hiraki]

Not by you

[Hiraki]

The fact that you're going on a tangent that means nothing about Ali's kill isn't helping anyone or convincing anyone

[Hiraki]

But rather, an ability.

We literally already discussed this at a huge length.

[Hiraki]

Which adds to, finding out who wanted Alisae dead in the first place.

This is literally the reason why I was voting Vax what the fuck

Edo is the best lynch today

I am sure that you are going to give this information why he is

So you think Edo voted Alisae, people started to vote Vax (who you think is town) so Edo killed Alisae? It's 2:30am here and you're making my head hurt.

Right on the money about how absurd this is. Like wow Comm, you figured out stuff that everyone else figured out on Page 4.

Just so no one is bullshitting, here is what I ACTUALLY SAID 200 posts ago:

But the vig shot would occur at the day end. The day wasn't close to ending.

I think this is a ploy to throw off my SR back to a VI read. There's no way that Comm writes this after Page 12 postings.

[Hiraki]

WHAT DO YOU MEAN CONFIRMED? IT'S BEEN CONFIRMED FOR 200 POST NOW

[Hiraki]

ASP is with me and probably Vax too.

Town does NOT say that people are "with them" - only scum do. They should be with your cases not with /YOU/.

I'm glad that you're done with me because you have NOTHING to argue with me against. That's why you're done.

[Hiraki]

You are literally the only one calling me scum.

[Hiraki]

Congrats, you found a hold-over from Page 4!

[Hiraki]

Town blocs exist and scum hate them when it's directed at their own.

Does this mean Edo is in the town bloc too?

That's pretty weird...

[Hiraki]

No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that you are definitely not part of a town bloc and anyone who is in your "town-bloc" is either not voting you or isn't very sure on you.

[Hiraki]

Hiraki: "Hey, can you answer this question that doesn't make sense?"
Comm: "You're scum dude, what kind of rope do you want?" (See he had a valid question/concern but if I ignore it, no one else will see it and if I keep doing this, my wagon might deflate as if people think I'm not VI)

[Hiraki]

I'm saying that you are definitely not part of a town bloc and anyone who is in your "town-bloc" is either not voting you or isn't very sure on you.

QUESTION

Yep, Hiraki and Edo confirmed. Knew it. You'll eat rope tomorrow. Better pick out what colour rope you want by tonight.

ANSWER

but that's NOT ANSWERING ANY QUESTIONS

I am sure that you are going to give this information why he is

QUESTION

Honestly I'm done with Hiraki and 1SVT.

ANSWER

[Hiraki]

Wow! You got one of the least important questions!

[Hiraki]

And instead of showing the answers to the other questions, you just ignored them! Wow!

[Hiraki]

No, you didn't answer my questions. You are also at L-1.

[Hiraki]

The only thing you could find is something that I

A) Don't really care about
B) Knew that you answered

Please don't lecture me about reading the thread after you decided to try and do the work I already did 200 posts ago.

[Hiraki]

Someone who blatantly ignores questions (rather than just answering them badly) is not VI.

[Hiraki]

How is that suicidal for Scum-Comm???

I also don't get how you can say the following in the same post:

1) "I thought they were scum prior to the innocent child claim"

2) "The case, as I understand it, is that he's ignoring questions. If it's more than that, can somebody please elaborate?"

????

[Hiraki]

No, I didn't ignore your question - I'm just curious on how you think that I'm voting off on just ignoring questions when you had a scum read. I think that having a gut read on someone who would've been placed near the bottom excluding one vote is terrible.

I don't understand how you can think that my case is just based off of not answering questions and you can have a scumread on a person except for one post that is really not that spectacular. I would much rather find your reasons, which aren't stated anywhere, before talking about mine, which are stated - albeit not so clearly.

However, WIFOM is still a factor, so that was a stupid townread. Plus, his logic was flawed because just because scum HAVE an easy wagon doesn't mean they'll push it.

So what you meant to say is that your TR on Comm is actually very weak and falls more in-line with what I've said about Comm's scumplay rather than a VI read.

Additionally, you have not liked anything I've done in this game - particularly you stated that you didn't like myself, GL, Comm, and 1SVT. You've explained 1SVT and Comm but I really need more explanation on how you don't like the play of myself or GL. Your comments on GL are lazy because you put him below someone that you actually have suspicions on (Char) but would also fall in-line with someone trying to keep Char alive for future possibilities.

[Hiraki]

I misread some things in ASP's postings. I am retracting my SR on Comm for the moment based on that and that alone. If you would like me to still re-emphasize my case, Edo, I can do - trust me, I was ready to hit submit on what I had already stated in a much larger format so give me the word. If they're both scum, they pulled off a nice gambit.

My PoE atm is Edo/Charloux/GL (in that order preferably)

Vote: Edo

I'm entirely doubtful that GL is scum based off of meta reasons. viewtopic.php?f=83&t=70930

I am also starting to doubt Charloux's claim based off of 355.

[Hiraki]

Whoops - that's the wrong game (thankfully not on-going!)

viewtopic.php?f=83&t=70233

[Hiraki]

Why would a Survivor just randomly vote another? Your vote kind of implies the same idea.

[Hiraki]

If Charloux is a survivor, he has no reason to change wagons unless he's voting the highest wagon. He's made this pretty clear in his other posts.

[Hiraki]

I think Edo can redeem himself while Char is an OK lynch at this point. The only read that I'm not 200% sure about at this moment is Vax. He's my "if everything else fails". I'm pretty certain in GLtown. Thank you for making me think about that. Your additional points on Charloux are correct as well.

Vote: Charloux

[Hiraki]

That sounds more like a mod question, to be honest.

How do you confirm your IC 1SVT? Is it one-shot? Forgive my ignorance on these sorts of roles, I'm used to the good old T v S stuff where ICs are revealed at the beginning of D1.

[Hiraki]

I actually agreed with 1SVT that neighboring ASP was probably one of the worst choices.

[Hiraki]

There is a consistent feeling that I have that you are scum, due to the fact that we butt heads on reads, but since you are able to explain them it feels like the game we played together. Not a hard TR but definitely better than Charloux.

[Hiraki]

I guess it's a lie to call it 100% meta and moreso 50% meta, 50% explanations given.

[Hiraki]

I would like to propose a compromise that if the day reaches 0 days, X hours, X minutes that we turbo-lynch Charloux because if he is a survivor, he will now actually try to help us rather than coast.

I'm pretty set that Edo=Charloux->Vax is a good way to finish the game. If Edo flips town, Charloux isn't scum with Edo (duh) but I find it high sus that Edo votes the same with Charloux after Edo comes out and SRs me to hell and back based on gut. Meanwhile his reasoning is that "Hiraki won't happen" - which is something that is more scum-aligned than town-aligned. If you have reasons that I am scum, then you should share them so you can convince people that I am scum rather than just calling me out. The fact that you're just calling people out is discrediting your reads and your role in this game.

What are the chances that Charloux could actually be a cult leader? 1-Shot BP detracts scum from shooting as well as giving town a reason to stay away. Cult still wins if leader is dead too, no?

[Hiraki]

Mobile posting - he's acting like town, no reason for him to question my read on him, explanation on votes are rational even though we disagree, corresponds with meta from prior game

[Hiraki]

Which is why he voted Comm?

[Hiraki]

I meant GL, that was a mistake by me in the fact pattern.

[Hiraki]

Charloux effectively started the GL wagon. When questioned on it, Charloux could've said any of the following:

A) I think GL is scum for X,Y, and Z
B) I think GL needs pressure

Here are the answers given:

Leaving Comm alive will make the game more entertaining, that's about it. And the guy is trying so hard i just can't do it.

This insinuates that he was voting for Comm for reasons other than lynching someone (i.e. not of a survivor wincon)

1)If 1 shot isn't the IC, then i will vote for him.

Depending on Charloux's flip, this can give merit to GL's theory.

Post-edit:

He could vote for someone with reasoning.

[Hiraki]

Vote: 1SVT

The setup is either very complex or 1SVT will flip something other than Lyncher.

[Hiraki]

Are you jester?

[Hiraki]

This game is becoming very confusing.

[Hiraki]

If you're scum, why are you calling Comm out?

[Hiraki]

OH - as in a different scum team?

[Hiraki]

I understand now. The lyncher gambit was pretty good tbh.

[Hiraki]

Comm, if they're the same faction that incriminates you more than anything.

If the other mafia really only has one shot and wasted it on Char

What? Where did you get this from?

My claim is

Dr. Julius Hibbert - 2-shot doc

. I used it on ASP D1 (mainly due to lurker tells) and 1SVT D2. This is why I had a lot of trouble wrapping my head around the idea of a Cult and kind of just played along with it.

I still want Edo dead. I don't get how not hammering once makes up for having gut reads everywhere and only acting on certain people.

Please also keep the following in mind, now that they've both flipped:

The reason I put Carlos above GL is because if he actually is survivor, I'd rather lynch scum than anti-town. He's a compromise because at best he's anti-town and at worst he's scum. If yall wanna vote Carlos, I could be convinced I guess.

Yeah, I'm with Hiraki here. With GL's half claim, I'm much more inclined to vote Char today, then we can get GL tomorrow. While the vote on 1SVT is horrid, I'd rather not risk cult growing larger.

I guess we should also claim. Any preference or should I just start?

Not only was there no need to claim when there was scum on a platter, he doesn't even do it himself until he has public feedback, as if that's the important part of claims that it's the right time to do so.

[Hiraki]

Don't ignore my question - that one is much more important.

[Hiraki]

Yup, you got me. Glad you used REAL quotes to contextualize everything I've said in this game. Love the lurking claim for the 5th time this game when that's just not true. Don't worry VI. I see you're not butthurt about that.

Vote: Edosurist

[Hiraki]

As much as I'd love to believe the theory that GL's role is just a waste and that there is no cult, I do have a problem looking back and seeing Ali's role.

Why is there a Coroner if there hasn't been any instances of mafia getting rid of people without role claims? Is the "balancing" this game that town PRs are actually just VTs in some sakes? Just weird. I can't say yes or no until a cult flip.

[Hiraki]

Yes - lynch me because I am the only person with a 2-shot claim. Very logical, good work Comm!

[Hiraki]

If I fakeclaimed, then why would I be so stupid to have such an oversight not to claim 1-shot when everyone who has flipped is 1-shot?

I'm 2-shot because that's my role - end of story.

[Hiraki]

Yup, god-like scumhunting abilities...I've ignored most of that post because it's trash. Would rather try to figure out the game rather than be tunnel headed like you atm

[Hiraki]

Like how am I supposed to respond to your 2-shot?? Like ok that's your role, great - there's nothing to debate there other than the fact that you have only disclosed one neighbor target??

[Hiraki]

And dw, I know that you'll for some reason never put Edo in the PoE because he didn't hammer you that one time so he's a nice guy

[Hiraki]

I'm not scumreading Comm.

[Hiraki]

I think Edo is a better candidate for Cult tbh, I'm on phone but I will demonstrate soon

[Hiraki]

Actually, not as well thought out as I originally thought -

Unvote

People in the game (excluding me) :

Vaxkiller
Edo
Comm
ASP

I still have a hard SR on Edo with Vax being the last resort. Edo doesn't make sense as cult for:

Willing to hard-rule out Vax for cult just because we're having this discussion mainly because of him. No reason for him to do such a thing as cult.

While the vote on 1SVT is horrid, I'd rather not risk cult growing larger.

Yeah, I'm with Hiraki here. With GL's half claim, I'm much more inclined to vote Char today, then we can get GL tomorrow.

Actually, this might invalidate him as scum. No reason to announce that you're going to go after GL the next day and then kill him anyway.

I'm confused by the "math" here. Are you saying I'm your preferred lynch, and me flipping scum will suggest that Char or Vax (if not Char) is my partner?

Sorry for not responding - it was a lynch order.

I'm going to settle Edo as my "if-everything-else-fails" lynch because things aren't making sense - but I have a thought that's new. (I'm sure that Comm will comment here that it's because I'm scum and my time has come or something - Post edit: did it before I posted)

Comm - VI (which would actually be a good cult target because there's no way he's dying)

Which means, Jester,

Cult

, or town/mafia being overpowered is not out of the question!

Odd thing to throw in there in the early game.

I think the worst part is this -

But a survivor claim that early?

Either a Jester

or just town messing around. Or even scum gambling it.

So if you go back to the first part, Comm talked about Jesters (which he referenced later), Cults (which were not a topic), and town/mafia. If anyone would be a cheeky cult boi, it'd be this exact early game phrasing where he could come back in post game and said "I talked about it at the start!" which I wouldn't think past Comm to try.

Yeah, no, you die today. End of story, You kept pushing me and pushing me when you aren't even town and I seriously doubt there's 3 3rd parties (Survivor, Cult and Lyncher) AND mafia...

But this was something that Comm considered in the early game?

I assume ASP is still the same.

And there it is - the person who hasn't talked since Page 15 (and barely at that rate) is now assumed to be the same faction. The entire neighbor possibility could just be a weird set-up for Comm's 1-shot Cult Leader (which again is why he's pushing that 1-shot v/s 2-shot deal and has never commented on what happened to the second shot of his neighborizor deal)

You can also take into account 1SVT's comments which correlated to a role PM slip. I'm willing to believe there were more truth than lies in his words. It's more logical that there's not two mafias but rather one mafia and one cult (which would act moreso like an SK and a cult)

Vote: Comm

This is Cult Leader.

Had another thought, the cult leader will likely flip correctly, but the "disciple" will likely not.

I read this a couple times before figuring out what this might mean - you mean that Ali's role was to figure out what people were before being culted, no?

So Hiraki being recruited is VERY high.

Yes, yes - we get it. You want to lynch me that badly.

[Hiraki]

I rescind the second shot part of the neighborizor deal since I have been misreading. Everything else is still in tact.

[Hiraki]

Just a nail in the coffin, Comm always accuses me of lurking but has never talks about how ASP has

9

posts in this game.

[Hiraki]

You're pretty "damn sure" that someone is town after a QT that might be a little longer than their actual posting?

[Hiraki]

Because I'm not cult nor scum, that's why I won't ever give up on winning this game.

Great dodge btw

[Hiraki]

I'm phone posting (I'll get to your question later Vax) but Comm has just about blamed every bad action in this game to me since D2.

[Hiraki]

@Hiroki Does your role PM explain what the doc does? Can you give us some more wording from it?

It's a simple doc - I don't think I can block any cult recruits, just night deaths. I clarified this internally with the mod once GL brought his role up.

Here are the current inconsistencies in what Comm is saying:

He is the ONLY one who has claimed to have a 2-shot ability which I believe is 100% bullshit and poor attempt at a fake claim.

OK - which is his opinion. I can't deny this - but let's take a step back.

Either way, I think we should get claims out onto the table today.

I then proceed to claim:

Before I push on, I want Vax and Edo to claim though. My guess? We can probably find the liar pretty damn quickly since all the roles are fitting their characters flavour wise one way or another.

At 476, Comm sees nothing wrong with my claim. Before he tries to claim anything funny (i.e. fastposting) that post was a half-hour after my claim and it directly correlated with the questions that proceeded after it.

If Comm had a problem about my claim, why did he wait to say anything about it rather than just call me out right away?

The answer is pretty clear that he's trying to fabricate my claim in order to speed the game up. If he really wanted /all/ claims on the table, as he insinuated in 476, then he could have the full picture and choose from there. Instead, he calls my claim fake based off of the fact that I am 2-shot while everyone else is 1-shot. That's a

very

convincing argument.

Comm also likes to bring up that I TR'd 1SVT while he was doing so great in leading a wagon against him. Let's examine two sides of this:

1) Was anyone persuaded by Comm's argument to SR/vote 1SVT?
2) Did anyone, other than me, TR 1SVT?

1:

If you look at the vote logs, there's two people who are voting 1 Shot VT for the entire game before his lynch and that is ASP (A) and GL (B)

A:

This case on Vax is terrible. "Because he reacted badly during X, he'll react badly during Y." WHAT? "I don't buy being framed..." That's all WIFOM at this point.

VOTE: 1-Shot Vanilla Town

RVS vote.

I'm comfortable with my vote on 1SVT.

Comm's argument regarding the 180 on Vax was something I hadn't really paid mind to due to a bad case to begin with, but I don't see where the original argument was going that being framed wasn't in the realm of possibility for him.

All the debate was doing was introducing WIFOM, and to introduce it further in the form of a vote based upon seemingly no other reason was terrible. It made me curious at first about a night action confirming it, but unvoting (hadn't really paid attention to the context) negated that possibility and proved to me that it was JUST a bad case.

ASP - can you clarify this? I don't think this made a lot of sense to me going through it the first time and it doesn't now - just didn't comment on it then because I didn't care about that argument.

B:

I don't like Comm's push/vote on 1SVT, 1SVT looks pretty town from where I'm sitting.

You're going to call me scum for being buddy with someone who FLIPPED TOWN agreed was town in that moment. I have to wonder - what was your read on GL?

Out of a GL/Edo comparison. I'd say GL is more likely town than Edo.

Oh, ok. So you're now literally accusing me of things that people who were town did that are now scummy.

1SVT played a brilliant scum game - probably could've made it to endgame if he didn't make the IC call.

2:

Guilty Lion, as stated above, TR'd 1SVT before his IC theory.
Vax doesn't give a read but I'll admit that I'm Control+F at this point.
Edosurist calls 1SVT town all game.
ASP agrees with Comm that 1SVT is scum.
Charloux's reads are unreliable since he is a survivor.

Back to your buddying theory, if there's anyone buddying anyone - it's you and ASP.

The only one who'd vote me is Edo and you have already tried painting him as the bad guy here Hiraki.

Literally just TR'd him due to his actions in D3. There's a 0% chance that Edo is scum or cult.

I've had previous experience with them in games and it's much more common than a lot of other 3rd parties. Which when we talk about the possibility of 2 opposing factions. Cult is one of the first that comes to mind.

Two things:

1) I'd also like to see this experience because I have now looked at all of your completed games and there is

nothing

cult related from Mafiascum. That also testifies to how "common" they are.

2) Yeah? 2 Opposing factions in a

MAFIA

game and the first thing you start to talk about is a cult?

3.) Remember, there was a SHOT D1 which is still unaccounted for from current claims and flips. Unless you are suggesting I both recruited and shot someone D1? That's a bit far fetched.

I'm not going to comment on the setup as I'm aware of it. There has been major discussion in the Mafia Discussion forums about how these sorts of discussions are usually led by anti-town personnel and used to their advantage to try and hide the truth.

You have not helped very much this game. You refused to help me lynch a mafia poisoner. Now you refuse to help me lynch the prime baddie candidate out of everyone here.

Anytime that ANYONE is against you this game, you have repeatedly called them out as if they were a bad person. Reading up on both of your town games (Bill Wurtz, and Timeshift; since I was looking for this cult stuff anyway) you don't do this there to any extent or means. You'll say that a faction has screwed up but you'll never pinpoint a player like you have done here.

GL was even hesitant because he thought there might not be a cult. Just that his role SUGGESTS there is a cult.

Actually, he was pretty adamant that there was a cult based on his role - just that he didn't get the setup, much like how you are trying to twist it now.

[Hiraki]

Had to wonder which one wasn't on my side - thought Vax was on my side tbh

[Hiraki]

I was also hard SRing GL but I figured it I feigned a TR that he would not shoot me. Glad he died when he did because I'm 99% sure that I would've been his target if he didn't use it yet.

[Hiraki]

Hiraki betrayed me -_-

I DIDN'T KILL YOU SO

IF IT MAKES YOU FEEL MUCH BETTER, YOU WERE LIKE TOP 2 TO BE RECRUITED FIRST BUT THEN YOU "SHOT" THE OTHER PERSON WHO I WAS GONNA RECRUIT AND THEN I WAS LIKE FUCK LET'S JUST GO LURKER

[Hiraki]

OH FUCK WAIT I TRIED TO RECRUIT COMM? I THOUGHT I DID VAX

WELL GOOD GOING ME