Micro 693: The Simpsons Mafia II (Game Over)

[CommKnight]

Now then ladies and gentlemen. Even though a bomb just went off in the town center. Do we really need to be at each other's throats already?

For the love of god. Let's just calm down here! Also are we assuming maggie simpson is mafia? Now if she is... Does that mean the second and maybe... Even the third mafia are from the simpson family? Right now perhaps game set-up speculation may not be with us. So let's enjoy the early day 1 shenanigans!

[CommKnight]

guyz votes don't count my dayvig is real.

I swear all my games have you in it so far. Also calling bull on your dayvig, not even you would dayvig someone so early who hasn't even posted nor even close to deadline or a real lynch.

[CommKnight]

It's a fake shot. Lets move on.

@CommKnight - What makes you think that there could be 3 scum? 33 and what impact does Charloux's 9 have to that with you?
I think it's a long shot to assume that Maggie is scum right now from the opening paragraph. And even if it is the case, these games are normally given fake roles / characters so right now, character speculation is pointless.

I'd say either 2 goons + 3rd party, 3 goons or just 1 goon and a mafia PR. That'd be my bet hands down!

Also I always speculate on set-ups because I think how would I make this a bastard game. The mod did say it could be. Which means, Jester, Cult, or town/mafia being overpowered is not out of the question! But my guess is there is gonna be some crazy shit (like dayvig) scattered throughout the game. The problem is there's only 9 of us. It'd be safe to assume 3 VTs are in play with possibly the remaining 6 being PRs/Scum. If I were the mod making this a bastard set-up. That's what I'd do. 3 Just seems like an attractive number for VTs in a 9 player game.

The survivor claim is rather suspicious because a survivor is generally an anti-town voter when mafia just needs their vote... But a survivor claim that early? Either a Jester or just town messing around. Or even scum gambling it.

[CommKnight]

If you seriously think that Vax, I may need to write you off as bad town on page 2 of the game...

[CommKnight]

Well how does everyone elses ability work? Resolves at the end of the day?

I dont think they thought it through, scum is going to have all the vigs int the game because its night less.

It's also bastard.
For all we know, the Survivor has a day kill.

You seem to have more intel than others so far though concerning what people do and don't have.

I second this. He seems to have a lot more to say on the matter than he's letting loose and he's pushing that vig=mafia stuff pretty damn hard. I can believe there's a vig with a 1-shot dayvig ability in a potential bastard set-up.

VOTE: Vax

[CommKnight]

Yeah, I really don't like how the day ended when he was at L1. Nor the playing stupid. Guaranteed one of the above posters is the person who shot Alisae. Also I can bet it wasn't a town. If it was, then I'd blacklist that player at the end of the game 100%!!!

I'm guessing this is a one-shot scum ability. Because, there was no other kill (for scum). So if the ability can END THE DAY and avoid a lynch... Then I'd say that's a definite one shot and if it's a one shot, why Alisae who is generally pretty new as well here? My theory, either Ali was onto something or he really is scum and the one with the ability on the scum team.

Maybe... this was the bastard thing the mod talked about. BUT WHY USE IT D1????

[CommKnight]

We probably should be worried that there even is a Town Coroner to begin with... It means someone can HIDE flips!!!

[CommKnight]

So, before we do some crazy stuff, anyone know where A Simple Plan and Edosurist went off to?

[CommKnight]

Are you really trying to play dumb here?

Quote it.

You are talking about a shot that happened in day 1. Just because you didn't say that exact wording don't try and play dumb. End of the case you was trying to say that Alisae had a day kill and didnt know how to use it and when you got voted up Alisae dies.
Great defence though.

I was accusing her of being scum because of the way she was using the vig and the info taht was given by the mod int eh later post. It makes sense that instead of having "night kills" as there is no night, that the scum are going to have vigs that resolve in twilight. I assumed Alisea miss-interpreted this which was explained in a mod post. I still dont know how you get day vigs out of this.

VOTE: Vax

I'm tired of you playing stupid. Something ended the day early which seems to be a day-vig.

[CommKnight]

Afraid you might lose the chance to, assuming you're the only one in the faction who can use it.

[CommKnight]

I was voting Vax yesterday before the day ended so suddenly. I've been suspecting him for a while now, but now his behaviour and reactions to what has happened just doesn't seem right.

[CommKnight]

I can't make an sense of this. I was at L1, and scum could have easily hammered me with little worry. Alisea was close enough to a lynch where scum could have swung vote thier way as well.

Scum knows who is town and who is not. So WHY would they use an ability to end the day to frame me when im at L1. L1! And the other wagon was town too! Why would town activate the ability? Why would they waste an ability like that?

Reread this again. You're right, WHY would they?

Also we should probably push for a role claim at the very least here. Letting him off scot-free is dangerous move as town.

[CommKnight]

He's a survivor. If there are 3 scum and they come out full blow, he's going to go with them.

If you are cop and he is survivor, then there are 2 mafia max. 3 scum + survivor (with D1 ending in no lynch due to an ability out of our control) would be TOO OP.

[CommKnight]

You claim he's survivor. Which one would only know if an investigative role.

Anyway, off to bed. Might even be multi factions for all I know.

[CommKnight]

I don't see Comm flipping scum after making that comment.

Vote: Vaxkiller

I'm starting to feel much better about the mafia mistake more than before. I would like to hear more from Simple and Edo.

1 Shot is an OK alternative given a re-read. Vax flip helps a lot with understanding 1 Shot's alignment tbh.

Honestly I'm okay with voting 1 Shot up now and getting a full blown claim from him. He's wayyy too protective of Vax recently for my liking. And his fake outrage that I'm not "answering" his question is rather funny.

UNVOTE: Vax
VOTE: 1SVT

Honestly, if 1SVT isn't going to read the game, then he can be useful and claim.

[CommKnight]

Like you are tunneling the fact I said "guaranteed" one of them shot Alisae. This is an assumption, if you're going to read that as I can't vote anyone else who is scummy then you're really taking a post out of hand.

I love how no one else is obsessing over it like you are. It's just you. Literally. Want to know why? Either you're crazy, or you're scum looking for ways you can seem like you're scum hunting.

But as said before, you over defense of Vax at this stage is rather suspicious. Want to hear my theory? It's rather good.

- Press on Vax D1 for town cred.
- Knowingly, your faction can end the day before he's lynched.
- Press again on Vax D2 but slowly pull off and hope everyone buys the "it's a setup" story.
- Vax stands a real chance of meeting the noose again, so let's fake outrage and drama over something to distract town from these possibilities.

Pretty good eh? Though you know, I think it'd be TOO easy if that were the case. No, I think you're trying to buddy him so when he doesn't flip mafia, you can try and gain some town cred for "protecting" him.

Today doesn't end without your claim 1SVT. I can promise you barking up my tree will get you in the noose.

[CommKnight]

se you I'm not being lynched today.
I can also promise you that we are lynching you today.
I'll let people think for a moment, re read your ISO and hop onto your wagon.
You chose the wrong person to push in this game.

Unless a troll hammers me, it's not gonna happen. You require 5 people to lynch me of 8 alive. Which means you need to convince 3 more people to vote for me and to keep it on when I claim if I were to reach L-1.

Want to test me? Push for it, come on now. But be wary it'll be you meeting the noose if you do.

[CommKnight]

If he wants to have a size comparing contest, then he's welcome to it.

Fact remains, there's 8 of us alive, at least 2 are anti-town. Excluding myself that leaves a nice 28.6% chance if I were randomly taking pot shots. But add in the factor of 1SVT's tunneling on mundane things and his over-defense of Vax and I think we have someone here who is trying to buddy people.

Now, I'm wiling to bet 1 is active and 1 is inactive. Currently reading Charloux as non-scum. NAI on Hiraki (could be scum or town. He seems like the sort that could pass off as town as scum easily). With my active scumdar pinging on both Vax and 1SVT. Of course 1SVT is pinging me harder with the whole buddying thing he has going on.

In the inactives, it could be any of the three really.

Also, Hiraki's buddying of me feels kinda odd. Either he TR's me, is buddying me or just really SR's one of the other two.

I'm confident scum won't hammer without MYLO/LYLO situation because they can't afford to be down to out one of their team members while risking a cop finding their second member in the same day. The only ones who are capable of troll hammering would be A Simple Plan, GuiltyLion or Edosurist because they aren't exactly involved at the moment in the game and could waltz in, see a wagon and hammer before walking out. I've not played with any of them yet, but I know there are town from my second game on here that literally do not read a single page when 5+ have been said since the last time they talked 2+ days ago. Then vote someone, thinking they hammered (but luckily someone else unvoted or they simply miscounted).

So yes, a troll hammer. Scum can't afford to in this small game.

P.S. Making my bet on it right now for post-game fun.
ONE scum in: Vax, 1SVT & Hiraki
ONE scum in: GuiltyLion, Edosurist & A Simple Plan
Note: This bet says that there is no more than one scum in each group of 3 and that each group of 3 have at least one scum!

[CommKnight]

I'm telling you now. I'm not.

[CommKnight]

But this is guaranteed to happen. You're going to claim today. So if you're scum, better start thinking up a fake claim as well as fake results.

[CommKnight]

You know, you really should be asking why I'm confident in what I'm saying. Like take a step back and try to figure out why I'm SO certain you're going to claim today and I'm not eating rope.

[CommKnight]

I'm going to so enjoy making you hang today. You're making me more and more confident in your death will be one less scum against us.

[CommKnight]

Yeah he is.

On another note, feel like the only people playing are 1 shot, hiroki, comm and myself.

As I said, one scum will be in the actives, one will be in the inactive. Usually the way it goes. 1SVT is definitely feeling more and more like the active one.

But nah, I'm 100% confident because I know I can prove myself. Did you not see how 1SVT 180'd completely on you? That is suspicious under any lens of it.

[CommKnight]

Normally when someone is being framed I would think scum would jsut sit back int he wings and let town write its own narrative concerning everything.

However, considering how stupid the timing was on everything I would expect the scum to actively push my lynch through. Why? It's super safe, because it looks so bad for me! All signs of how things went down point to me for making any sense.

That said I think 1 shots push actually looks towny.

You're not getting out of this one.
You can try and use the "scum will push me" tactic all you like.

Afraid you might lose the chance to, assuming you're the only one in the faction who can use it.

91 you say it's someone above that made the shot. (Vax hadn't posted) 115 you put believe in Vax making the shot?

Can you explain that a bit more?
What changed in what Vax had said in between these posts?

UNVOTE: Vax

2 hours. In 2 hours + my vote on you has made him 180 you. From post 117 and on he has been defending you when posts prior he was tunneling you. Why? Because I placed my vote on you and assumed you were the killer.

Now from town's perspective, my assumption isn't far from wrong. However, I want a claim over a lynch at the moment because without a claim, the mafia can keep pushing easy mislynches. Any town-minded person should want a claim before lynching. What if they are a cop and can clear 1-2 people or even expose a mafia and when they die and reveal as cop, then that is pretty damning evidence for clears/guilties.

Now fast forward to now. Town should want claims. It's in our best interest to have them before deciding to lynch somebody. However, 1SVT just wants to lynch people. That is where he is slipping up. He doesn't care if my claim will have him eating rope or not or even have everyone TR'ing me. Instead he just wants to kill.

It's a slip. He fucked up. Now he's going to be put to L1 and claim for us or eat rope.

[CommKnight]

Not everything revolves around you dude.

Let me put it a different way. You think only one of us is scum? Why would scum!1shot unvote town!vax and push elsewhere when there was little resistance to my wagon?

Town cred. I'd assume they need at least 2 mislynches to win. Trading 1 for 1 isn't an option when there's a very real chance we have a doctor/vig/cop alive.

You're right not everything revolves around me. It revolves around you. Your wagon, the early day end before you could be lynched, your wagon again, and now 1SVT completely 180'ing on you. I think you're a gamble piece for him to get enough town cred to last long enough to put at at least to LYLO.

[CommKnight]

VOTE: No lynch

Also it's pretty anti-town to no-lynch D1.

Anyway, I'm wondering what happened to this one.

Speaking of ASP...

This case on Vax is terrible. "Because he reacted badly during X, he'll react badly during Y." WHAT? "I don't buy being framed..." That's all WIFOM at this point.

VOTE: 1-Shot Vanilla Town

I'll be back for a more in-depth read and reply in a few hours or so. I'm late for a meeting.

[CommKnight]

Well he said he'd be back in a few hours or so... Been a day.

[CommKnight]

Do you think that Comm/Vax could be scum together?

Hiraki is reeking of posturing.

Of course I'm upset there's inactives. Who wouldn't be? Then one of them says they'll post soon... then doesn't. That's stupid not to be upset with him.

@GuiltyLion What are your thoughts on both Hiraki and 1SVT. Hiraki was sorta buddying me earlier and 1SVT was buddying Vax. Which if you don't like either me or Vax, then what does that say about the two people who are both buddying and casting shadow on people regularly?

Hiraki is dropping in my town reads because of the shadow casting specifically. 2 mislynches for scum and they win assuming we have nothing that can turn around a game in a 2v2.

Fastposted twice by Vax. Legit, think about 1SVT and Hiraki for a moment. My read on Vax is leaning towards town lately because of their shadowy playstyle so far today.

[CommKnight]

What's up with inactivity on this site? There's soo many players active, yet all the games I join has 2-4 inactives (or don't care in general). Heck the recently finished one where we won as town had about 10-14 replacements...

If they don't want to play the game, then there's other things they can do rather than take a spot from someone who probably would like to play.

[CommKnight]

@Mod:

Requesting prod of ASP. This day has pretty much come to a standstill without actives.

[CommKnight]

I'm here; apologies for the delay. The last few days have been rough.

Will read through tonight and make sure I'm still satisfied with where my vote is. The vote split as shown in 226 is interesting. Would have expected a larger wagon somewhere.

The more I look at the vote count, the more I'm reading into some motivations here.

Okay, so let's begin. I think ASP is actually town. Therefore I think 2 town are on 1SVT. Which means scum is avoiding the wagon which makes 1SVT look much worse.

Now we have 2 other wagons on Vax and myself. I can bet the scum PT will have them discussing not being on the same wagon together. So Vax is essentially clear in my eyes at the moment. 1SVT is of course I'm assuming scum. Now the other scum on my Vax TR I am beginning to think more and more is Hiraki. Which Edosurist is on. Whom now I'm beginning to TR as well.

So my TR's are up to: ASP, Vax and Edo.
SR's are: 1SVT and Hiraki duo.
Neutral on GuiltyLion, really hasn't swayed me one way or another.
Charloux probably is 3rd party. I don't even think he's survivor though. Probably another 3rd party role.

Anyway, 1SVT definitely eats rope today.

[CommKnight]

Vax, 1SVT, Edo and Hiraki are suddenly quiet for a few days.

[CommKnight]

1SVT is going to survive today because town is not even here. Where the hell is Edo? Char? We NEED to lynch 1SVT today.

[CommKnight]

So, 1 shots 180 on me is scummy? So do you think he is buddying me, or protecting me?

I really think 1 shot is town here.

Seeing as you're one of the only active TR's I have I'm bloody outing so we can lynch scum today. I'm a 1-shot Neighbourizer. Check my very first post and read the capital letters for my name.

WE NEED TO LYNCH MAFIA TODAY. Tomorrow we're screwed without some PR being able to off them in the night if we mislynch today.

So Vax, I need you to to see two town are on 1SVT right now and scum are avoiding an easy wagon if we were voting town. Scum is likely split up on you and me. Yet the entire game is pretty much inactive and they're not going to die because we have next to ZERO town here today. It's pissing me off the activity really. Then Hiraki says time is not a reason to post. YEAH IT IS. Being inactive is bullshit and not a reason to delay posting because others don't post. You then create a cycle of not posting.

[CommKnight]

Yeah, no. Without a hard claim, you're eating rope today 1SVT. Mafia Neighbourizer is rather a super bastard role and I doubt my character would be mafia here. Throwing away all flavour our roles have is stupid.

[CommKnight]

Being able to pretend to be town and neighbourize town to find out their PRs are bastard.

But go on, your 180 on Vax is town because... We're still waiting on an answer to that one which I assume you have no real answer to.

[CommKnight]

Gee, all of 30 posts. It's like my brain was thinking or something on it. You know, the town thing to do. Consider who is scum and who isn't. I've already pegged your partner I believe in the Hiraki/GuiltyLion wagon on Vax.

But it doesn't matter that you've got called out. Because the rest of town is AFK and one of the few active town (Alisae) was shot D1!

You are claiming. And you're doing it before the day ends. We just need 3 more town to vote you. Not a single scum is on your wagon which means you are by extension probably scum.

@Hiraki, if you really are town, help push for a claim like a real town would. Vax is not worth voting today. He's not being lynched today. I'm 1v1'ing 1SVT today. Either him or me dies and it's going to be him.

[CommKnight]

Comm - If I'm confirmable, you will self vote, correct?
If it's me or you dying today, of course.

Self voting as town is against the rules. So can't do that.

Also what would be confirmable at this point other than my neighbourhood or a scum admitting they killed Alisae/ended the day early.

[CommKnight]

o if I was to confirm my alignment, who would you be voting?

I'd be voting for Hiraki or GuiltyLion if you could prove your alignment. But I won't hold my breath on that one.

[CommKnight]

So therefore, Vax is town based upon associations with 1-Shot, 1-Shot is scum, Comm is town based upon role (I'd be willing to bet the game on it.) I could see Edos-1 Shot as a team, and Hiraki, GL, and

Char

are pretty much null ATM,

though likely town by POE

if I'm right about the other two.

This is scum with Comm who isn't paying attention.

Now, to everyone else. The reason I say he is scum with Comm is because of the following.
ASP is saying that he can confirm that Comm is telling the truth on his role, meaning that Comm used his power on ASP (this is backed up with Comm trying to say ASP is town, even after ASP hadn't posted anything of interest).
So during day 1, Comm used his power on ASP? While ASP had only 1 post. So tell me this, why did he pick ASP?
Because they are both scum. I find it hard to believe that this role, if even real, is town with my PR.

When Comm is back on, I'd still like him to answer 263.

@Edo - You had enough time to catch up, what did you get?

Honestly. I'm sick of your shit. I PICKED ASP BECAUSE THE DAY ENDED FUCKING EARLY. Not like I had pages worth of content to pick someone dipshit.

My vote stays. Even ASP asked why I picked him and I told him. It was the person I first submitted in case someone hammered early. But HEY the entire day ended early.

If you're town, I'd replace out simply because of your bad play. The ONLY reason you're not eating rope is because half the town doesn't give a shit and Alisae was conveniently shot D1. If Alisae was alive with me, you can bet your ass we'd be making you eat it. I was even considering neighbourizing Alisae but before I could even have a chance to consider other options, the day ended. Good thing I didn't neighbourize you though. otherwise the PT would be filled with you calling me a scum neighbourizer.

ASP might not be a fan of my 1v1 on you. But I can bet the game on you flipping red at this point. You, Hiraki and Vax are really the only active players right now aside from myself. ASP can at least admit he's not very active at the moment. We're not getting anything useful from the rest. So all scum has to do this game is be active to win. Which is sad.

I'm nowhere the best player in mafia. But I'll call a spade, a spade. Your 180 on Vax is one of the worst scum plays I've seen in all of 50+ forum mafia games I've played over the years. Even when I was younger scum didn't pull that kind of noobish reads. So either a VI or scum. Plain and simple.

Then why Hiraki? He's defending your poor play for some ungodly reason. In fact, I'm willing to bet the scum PT after the game has him trying to make you play more reasonably. Which is probably where your 180 on Vax came from but he's pushing Vax from another angle while opening you up to taking the heat.

Either you push your frame job on Vaxx and get him lynched or you somehow win this 1v1 against me. Either way, both scum aren't voting together, because a single red flip this game would end them tomorrow if that was the case. (I mean I could be wrong, but I'd assume with a scum day PT they wouldn't do something so silly with 2 people on each different wagon). I know ASP is town, heck, his role fits his character perfectly. So he'd have to come up with one hell of a fake claim to fake it.

Which means no scum is on 1SVT's wagon. Which leaves 2 other wagons. On Vax and 1SVT. I'd doubt if Vax was scum, the other scum would vote him. So that leaves 1SVT on the wagon with Vax to be THAT scum. With Hiraki more than likely being the other scum. But we WILL know which one of the GuiltyLion/Hiraki duo is scum come tomorrow. That is guaranteed.

The only thing that gets you off the rope today is if someone other than Hiraki came in with a cop claim saying you're inno. Other than that, there's simply no way you're town.

@Everyone else, take a moment to assume ASP and I are both town. If you believe 1SVT to be town. Why aren't scum voting for him then? They'd know he'd be an easy lynch to push with 2 town already on it (meaning they'd just need one more to push it and enter tomorrow with 6 players, 2 mafia and probably a 3rd party).

[CommKnight]

Innocent Child hmm? Now that is a rare role. I've played with it once before. However, you also admit you dug yourself a hole if you're lying. Like legit, if the mod's first post tomorrow isn't "1SVT is Town Innocent Child" then you immediately become the lynch candidate.

However, I do believe you wouldn't make that claim as scum. That'd completely fuck the scum team and would borderline gamethrow if we were to catch the other scum based on connections. Which means my reads list needs updating.

UNVOTE: 1SVT

Vaxkiller

- Town Read

Commknight

- Ned Flanders, 1-shot neighbourizer

A Simple Plan*

- Neighbourized (and more than likely town).

Charloux

- Survivor??? (Seems to be the claim here).
GuiltyLion

1 Shot Vanilla Town

- Innocent Child[/b]
Edosurist
Hiraki

Note: Charloux could be scum claiming third party to try and slide by and put the LYLO scare into us. But for now, let's look for the other scum (or scum team).

I don't like it nor do you 1SVT, but we probably just had a TvT while scum just laid back hoping it'd slide by. But my role can be proved and so can yours. Mine was already proved and yours will be tomorrow.

So now let's work on the basis we're both town, or at the very least look for that "scum partner" we both "have".

Assuming ASP's claim is legit and I successfully neighbourized a townie and Vax was a set-up from the get-go and thus town. (Vax, no offense but it isn't your play making me TR you, but the circumstances and how people have acted toward you throughout the game).

@1SVT, ISO both GuiltyLion and Edosurist. I don't think both scum would be on Vax (that'd be the riskiest play in the world right now!). But work with me for a moment. GuiltyLion has sorta sheeped Hiraki and Edosurist seems rather not present in the game. Both plays could be equally scum. But I still hold on that Hiraki is likely scum. There's usually at least one active scum in every game.

If you claimed much earlier, you know, we could've avoided a lot of bickering. But now I'm comfortable with the number of clears we got. Also to note, out of ALL the claims so far (including ASP's) none explain the shortened day yesterday. Which to me means it was a scum power. Out of the 4 unknowns (if you include Vax), only 3 of them can possibly be it.

I'm holding my vote off for a few days here. I need to see more from GuiltyLion and Edosurist. Both of them need to be active and be fair with us being able to read them.

[CommKnight]

VOTE: Alisae
This is the right move.

So just pointing out that with the day ending early yesterday, Edo was looking at Alisae. Even in a joke vote stage.

also I think Vax's push on Alisae is dumb but not scum-motivated

GuiltyLion was TR'ing Alisae early on in D1. Is it because he was positioning?

I think Vax is being dumb. Alisae is obviously not serious, and the mod wouldn't make a "clarification post" directly in-game to everyone if it was only Alisae who made some sort of mistake. That would also be mod influence by outing her out as a PR.

Random early reads of mine:
1SVT and GL are both town. Commonknight is meh but not scum. Vax is trash. If vax is scum, then Alisae is less likely to be scum. The jury's still out on Hikarki and 55.

I'll be more active next week, but until then,

@Mod:

V/LA until 3/26.

Basically TR'ing all but Hiraki and Char at this point. But the V/LA should've ended on the 26th, still not much for content on the 27th. Also after this one he ended up putting Vax to L1.

I'm still in the camp that this was some sort of day-vig. This seems much more likely than a day-ending ability.

We already know the game is multi-factioned. Perhaps one faction controls the day-vig while the other has the normal factional kill. Then, something stopped the normal factional kill from occurring.

Multi faction makes sense if we're talking about 3rd party survivor. But then he goes on like there's 2 separate Mafia factions.

guilty - what is scummy about Comm and why did you just vote Vax after I asked you that question?

I don't like Comm's push/vote on 1SVT, 1SVT looks pretty town from where I'm sitting. And gtmh I'd say I currently think his bravado/confidence/belief-in-his-scumread is genuine, but I find arrogance to be anti-town as it's easier for scum to hide in arrogance than it is to fake uncertainty convincingly.

I voted for Vax because I think he needs votes, the timing of your question wasn't really a factor

Honestly GL's analysis keeps pushing more toward town motivated to say. He didn't need to mention many things he's said so far. Could've let events play out earlier but did add his own views on events.

Hey all, I'm back. I'll catch up tonight

So did you catch up? Checking scum PT to see where to go from there? Nothing since this one post yesterday around lunch time. I'm sure "tonight" has passed for you even if you were in Australia/China!

Out of a GL/Edo comparison. I'd say GL is more likely town than Edo. Which my bets now would be changed to a Hiraki/Edo duo with Edo being lynched today. Also if we could somehow confirm Char and Vax, we'd be able to end the game by tomorrow's end if we lynch right today.

[CommKnight]

It's a fake shot. Lets move on.

@CommKnight - What makes you think that there could be 3 scum? 33 and what impact does Charloux's 9 have to that with you?

I think it's a long shot to assume that Maggie is scum right now from the opening paragraph.

And even if it is the case, these games are normally given fake roles / characters so right now, character speculation is pointless.

My guess is you're Maggie (just for getting names sake done with).

[CommKnight]

VOTE: Alisae
Agreed.

Claiming survivor btw

Its not pointless to claim D3 Innocent child as scum because town won't have the majority tomorrow if comm is lynched and flips town.

I'm just saying. If we can't decide today to get scum, Char also admitted to basically scum-siding if we mislynch town today. Essentially making him a publicly claimed anti-town role.

[CommKnight]

It's what I'm wondering. Even ASP is looking at Edo and GL. When I did the ISO, GL stood out as more town and well, Edo's assumption on there being 2 mafia factions really striked me as odd. It wouldn't be the first game I played with it, but usually that's reserved for 12+ players with town having usually 2 investigatives. A game of 9 players where someone could end the first day early and put us to without even really getting much out of a D1... No investigatives as said before even yet. So that dings me to suggest the possibility of 2 scum factions.

Of course I was certain 1SVT was scum, so I could be wrong. But with me knowing myself as town, I'm pretty sure ASP is town. 1SVT will be proven tomorrow (and with that risky claim, I doubt he'd do it as scum). Then TR on Vax and the pool becomes rather limited. So it's not a far reach to assume Edo's post was a bit of a slip and that he does know something more. I'll probably place my vote there by the end of this real life day. But I'm still pondering on it. Would he slip like that? I mean if there is two opposing faction, other than a different colour than red, would it tell them there's another faction (if not, he may have outed himself to the opposing faction already).

Also I said you were an easy push BECAUSE two town are on you. So why the hell scum didn't try to push you striked me as odd. Now with basically the 3 of us being confirmed. (Even if you don't see it yet) it strikes me as even odder. Sure Edo is inactive, but why wouldn't the other scum push you? Unless what Edo says is true and it's really a 1v1v7 that quickly turned into a 1v1v6.

Now here's what I'm currently thinking, we'll see if I still think it later. But IF Edo is indeed a 2nd mafia faction (and flips non-red), it'd pretty much mean Char is probably the other faction trying to get by on a Survivor fake claim. (They both might be bullet proof as well and require to lynch each other, which is why Char would've claimed 1-shotBP and seems to even have claimed to have been shot when D2 started).

You tell me 1SVT, is that a crazy idea? It's just a theory for now, but it does seem to fit with what's coming to light. Neither Char nor Edo is really active. Both are flying under the radar and I'd assume when there's 3-5 people left, they'd be pushing to lynch the other so they win.

[CommKnight]

Honestly your argument would make more sense usually, but me being 1-shot BP would imply that there would be multiple kills in the game.

If it was a one-shot ability then I am basically unkillable, thats why I think it was a factional kill instead.
Scum chose Alisae as their temporary target, but something triggered the day to end early.

He also goes from "1-shot BP" to "basically unkillable". Even as far as stating Alisae being a "temporary target" (Why would Alisae not be their main target?). Also even Char seems to suggest there should be multiple kills.

Which means... If there's 2 factions, both of them can kill and I assume both of them are BP (meaning they can't be shot by the other). Which would mean one faction now knows 100% who the other is because of their missed hit. (Whom Char would try to brush off as being a 1-shot BP).

Yeah, if I'm right about this, this is the most legit analysis breakdown from ISO's I've done in a very long time. XD

[CommKnight]

@Mod

: If there was a survivor in this game, would that count as a faction or is a survivor under another category?

Yeah, I'd like to know this too. I mean on one hand it's another faction (its' own), but... when we speak multi-factions. It's USUALLY about 2 anti-town factions (such as WW, SK, Arsonist, Mafia, or in one game it was KGB & FBI against traditional Mafia roles, that game was real fun!).

Guess I missed where the mod said it was multi-factioned. But the answer to the above is still important.

[CommKnight]

Alisae, Reverend Timothy Lovejoy,

Town Coroner

, was found dead Day 1.

You know, before this multifaction stuff going on. I didn't pay much attention to this. But... "Day 1". If they were shot in the nightless night (at the end of the day) would they NOT be found Day 2.

@Mod

Are you allowed to clarify if this is specifically found Day 1 as in they were dead before the day ended or is this just neutral from your posting.

[CommKnight]

VOTE: Edo

I'm feeling more and more certain that slot is scum.

Also 1SVT, I still think you're not a good scum hunter if me and ASP is the best you can do. But hey, I'm looking elsewhere for the scum because I'm actually trying to find scum.

[CommKnight]

@Mod

: If there was a survivor in this game, would that count as a faction or is a survivor under another category?

My definition of a faction is a player who has an alignment/wincon or team of players who share the same alignment and wincon. So everyone in any game at any time is part of a faction. Doesn't necessarily mean all factions oppose each other or a threat to each other, etc. (That said I use "multi-faction" to mean beyond or different than the standard only mafia and town factions).

@Mod

Are you allowed to clarify if this is specifically found Day 1 as in they were dead before the day ended or is this just neutral from your posting.

Sorry but not sure what this is asking? There are only day phases and small twilight phase after where any unresolved day actions are resolved. Those who die before day ends or at end of day is that day's that death. Anyone who dies after day ended is next day's death. Flavor upon death on top of post is neutral and for funsies.

@Mod

Alright let me give an example of what I mean.

Example: Alisae is killed by an action that "resolves at end of day". So, let's say if the lynch went on as normal and Alisae was targeted by the kill at the END of the day (rather than seemingly shot before it officially "ends"). Thus, if she were to be killed by a regular end of day kill, would their body not be found on Day 2 rather than in the twilight of Day 1? Or... the shot is made in twilight and we find the body at the same time that all actions are being resolved?

Essentially, I'm asking, is the wording of the body being found Day 1 on purpose? As in their body was found in twilight after they were shot (and all actions are being resolved), or their body was found at the same time all actions were being resolved (and presumably shot).

Does that make sense what I'm asking? Basically the shot was during the day and ended it, or it was in twilight?

Fastposted by 1SVT. We'll discuss this at end game who's being anti-town here because it's not gonna get through your thick skull that there's more at play than just you and me. You're obsessed with it. You've been obsessed with tunneling me since I voted Vax. You've been hardcore tunneling and if I were to be lynched and (will) flip green. What are you gonna do tomorrow? Lynch ASP on some idea I might've neighbourized a scum? If you're gonna push ASP, you do it now or not at all. Because if I die, he's off limits. Not having you fuck up two lynches.

[CommKnight]

vote: Comm

Not a VI anymore

Scared yet Hiraki? PoE is bringing you to the very likelyhood of being mafia.

[CommKnight]

The fact that you're going on a tangent that means nothing about Ali's kill isn't helping anyone or convincing anyone

Actually, it means a lot. If we can have confirmation, we might be able to link Edo to some damning evidence.

[CommKnight]

@Mod, Thanks. That's what I wanted clarified.

So basically. Alisae's death ended the day or the person who shot Alisae also has an ability to end the day. Meaning... it wasn't a mafia *factional* kill. But rather, an ability. Alisae died before the day ended. That's what I wanted to dig at. It means the ability to end the day wasn't random, nor was Alisae just the pick that happened to be on them when the day ended. Someone CHOSE to kill Alisae.

Which adds to, finding out who wanted Alisae dead in the first place.

Now Hiraki, what doesn't it mean? I can tell you it means the above. Edo is the best lynch today, but I would not be opposed to lynching Hiraki one bit. Details matter. A lot.

[CommKnight]

It also... gives Char some credability. unless the ability prevents mafia from making the factional kill as well (or the kill was their factional kill but the ability made it in the day, but then making 3 abilities in one seems kinda weird, faction kill, day vig AND ending day?) would mean Char might've been shot by mafia's dusk faction shot.

Can't tell me no one sees what I'm seeing.

[CommKnight]

Well this is really my first nightless so I can't speak for experience. Just assumption as mafia usually don't go without a faction kill.

But I swear, if this is one of those ones where we gotta lynch the mod. I'll ROFL at end-game.

[CommKnight]

Now it's confirmed for the most part. But I'll wait for you to add something constructive to recent ongoings.

[CommKnight]

Honestly I'm done with Hiraki and 1SVT. Hiraki is a likely candidate for scum, so not like he'll vote Edo. 1SVT is the biggest VI I've seen, so I find Hiraki's VI read rather ironic.

Just need to hope Char will town side today while town has majority so we can lynch a scummy. ASP is with me and probably Vax too. Just need GL and we can lynch scum today.

[CommKnight]

Keep raging buddy boy. Town blocs exist and scum hate them when it's directed at their own. Some of you really can't handle being called scum.

[CommKnight]

Vaxkiller (2) -

Hiraki, GuiltyLion

Commknight (2) -

Vaxkiller, 1 Shot Vanilla Town

A Simple Plan (0) -

Charloux (0) -

GuiltyLion (0) -

1 Shot Vanilla Town (1) -

A Simple Plan

Edosurist (0) -

Hiraki (1) -

Edosurist

Well unless you admit to Edo being scum voting you, then that is false.

[CommKnight]

So is no-one else scum reading you any proof of you not being scum? Sorry, but my first game they tried to argue Morning Tweet wasn't scum because no one else was scum reading her. Guess what, that slot flipped mafia by the end of the game (which we as town won).

But you know, keep pushing it. You aren't tricking me. Maybe 1SVT or GuitlyLion. But we both know what you are.

Fastposted, nah, Edo ain't in my town bloc. He's voting you which I find odd, but Edo hangs today for sure he's scum. My gut could be wrong on you, I just sincerely doubt it. 1SVT shortened the pool enough for me now that I'm becoming more and more certain. (At least he was useful for that).

[CommKnight]

Yep, Hiraki and Edo confirmed. Knew it. You'll eat rope tomorrow. Better pick out what colour rope you want by tonight.

[CommKnight]

@Hiraki, Nice try, but I answered your question.

@1SVT I compared Edo and GL side by side pretty much in my ISO of both of them. Honestly, GL has been very town-centered in most of his posts. I don't think he's scum on my current train of thought. Bet ya the game it's Edo and Hiraki. You watch.

Fastposted a few times. 1SVT really is a VI. I have spoken a few times about GI, I mean for the amount of times I spoke about ASP before outing being neighbourized, I spoke about GL being scum possibly just as much if not more so in earlier posts.

It's called changing reads based on new information. Something TOWN players do.

[CommKnight]

Oh, it's a capitals war you want, don't mess with the capitals king...

Town blocs exist and scum hate them when it's directed at their own.

Does this mean Edo is in the town bloc too?

That's pretty weird...

QUESTION

Fastposted, nah, Edo ain't in my town bloc. He's voting you which I find odd, but Edo hangs today for sure he's scum. My gut could be wrong on you, I just sincerely doubt it. 1SVT shortened the pool enough for me now that I'm becoming more and more certain. (At least he was useful for that).

ANSWER

Oh cool, size 500 works. Anyway, just because you can't read doesn't mean I didn't answer.

[CommKnight]

@1SVT I compared Edo and GL side by side pretty much in my ISO of both of them. Honestly, GL has been very town-centered in most of his posts. I don't think he's scum on my current train of thought. Bet ya the game it's Edo and Hiraki. You watch.

You compared it and said that GL is more scum... How town of you... Explain what is town about his posts.
So you think Hiraki and Edo are scum together? That's not multi. That's a scum team. You are in a mind set of looking for 1 other scum team. That's what scum would be doing right now.

Well with mod answering Char's question, I'm of the mindset, that we have a survivor and 2 mafia again. It was clarified for those reading the game.

Hey, I could be wrong, I just really doubt I am this time. I already said GL's analysis to situations ongoing throughout the game seem pretty town centered. Or shall I make my answers font 500 size from now on to ensure everyone sees my answers and I'm not talking to a brick wall?

[CommKnight]

And instead of showing the answers to the other questions, you just ignored them! Wow!

SCAM-WOW! Shall I repost all my cases in every single post? Maybe have a little spoiler at the end of each post showing where my reads are, what my cases are, etc. Just in case you decide to 1, 2, skip a few, 99, 100 my posts.

[CommKnight]

Well if I'm lynched, I'm lynched. Can't win all games as town and my give-a-shit-o-meter is broken this game. Got a VI that somehow thinks he's obvious town before outing as IC, an active scum, a 3rd party survivor (and who else is even on me, Vax pulled off and GL is on Vax, so I think your count is off there buddy). Yeah, like town wasn't screwed from the get-go.

@All others. Think about it. Town was screwed from the get-go. We have a what? Neighbourizer, ASP's role, Innocent Child, Coroner and 2 others that are still unknown. Against a scum team that can immediately off one of our own and put us at MYLO with a survivor active.

I mean to even lynch one scum, we need ALL of town to vote right on the only chance we have to actually lynch because of game-enforced MYLO. Add the TI 1SVT and the game is simply unwinnable. Unless we got a vig of our own, there's simply no way to win this game for town. Do the math, scum just needed to trick one town into not lynching scum and BAM, they win. With 1SVT's tunneling, it's 100% loss without survivor town-siding. Only way we don't lose tomorrow is if Char is actually scum fake claiming survivor.

[CommKnight]

Not much else you can get out of me, I used my ability. My role is proven. The only question is my faction with said role. But I doubt scum neighbourizer is all that common.

Obviously there's no cop with guilty results yet today so good luck town. Praying for a vig, but I don't think it's gonna happen.

[CommKnight]

Honestly the guy I scum read could hammer me and isn't. This is seriously messing with me.

UNVOTE: Just in case i'm voting anyone. I need to figure out what the heck is going on here. Edo could've voted me with a small explanation and been done with it if he were scum. To me, that puts him high on my TRs. I mean the hammer is there, yet he doesn't take it.

I gotta drive home here from University, so will be about 2 hours-ish. Will think this over on my drive home. I'm honestly not even sure anymore. There's a lot of theories, but none are adding up at the moment.

[CommKnight]

I just pronounce it Char-Locks.

You know, I may end up hammering GL. If you check my 2 finished games, my gut TRs turned out to be scum. We still won both, but it's not like it doesn't happen.

[CommKnight]

Well, we seem to have found out a lot more than expected Vax. Given recent events, 1SVT needs to wake up and see the town bloc growing and add to it. We need the town voting together to lynch scum. That's for certain.

[CommKnight]

VOTE: Char

@GL & ASP. Remember, Edo had a chance to hammer me there and he didn't. It wouldn't have been that hard neither since everyone but you two were already voting me.

If 1SVT isn't cleared tomorrow. He's dead. It's as simple as that for him. Edo has played very anti-town and we know isn't town at all. Why let an anti-town survivor live? Someone said it before. At best, he's third party, at worst he is really scum/cult fake claiming survivor.

I can bet 1SVT lives tonight just because of how anti-town he's been playing.

[CommKnight]

If you want to win as survivor, playing like that, does not help you at all.

[CommKnight]

You know waht? I have no idea what im doing. I iso'd char becase I thought I was talking to hima and wanted to find out if he ever mentions guilty lion, then I find out he wasnt tehperson im trying to ask the question to, its comm.

@comm, it seems like your town-reading guilty lion. Why?

From my initial reason I do and he's one of the three that could've hammered me. If he's telling the truth, 1SVT can be dangerous but we'll know whether or not to lynch him at the start of tomorrow. Right now Char has been VERY anti-town in his play. So removing him and having another day to find out if 1SVT is clear or not, is not a bad thing. In fact I'd say it's scummy to not want to ensure there's at least one more day with town having majority by getting rid of a 3rd party who admits he wants to help scum.

GuiltyLion could be town and right. If he is, lynching him hands the game over to cult or mafia. Willingly mislynching when we KNOW of someone who is anti-town.. is well, anti-town. Char hangs today.

[CommKnight]

So Char is at L1. Now it'll be interesting to see who DOESN'T vote him.

[CommKnight]

GL already said he's lynch him. So only Vax and 1SVT are left... Which if 1SVT is cleared tomorrow, I'll be looking at Vax again.

[CommKnight]

Well, it's not only that he isn't acting townie. He's against town and doesn't care to actually scum hunt. We also KNOW he's not town either way and will vote with scum if they equal us.

[CommKnight]

@Vax and everyone who "Town read" 1SVT. Where is his Innocent Child proof?

VOTE: 1SVT You can't get out of the rope this time buddy boy. Nice try, but with survivor dead, he won't be voting with you.

Anyone who doesn't immediately vote this is under suspicion (as you are giving cult/mafia time to talk/make informed action!).

[CommKnight]

Yeah, no, you die today. End of story, You kept pushing me and pushing me when you aren't even town and I seriously doubt there's 3 3rd parties (Survivor, Cult and Lyncher) AND mafia... otherwise we lost from the get-go without having majority as town.

YOU DIE TODAY, if nothing else, for lying.

[CommKnight]

Also if GL was really your lynch target, you should've pushed him. A lot of people were suspecting him but you kept saying "Comm is scum" "Comm is scum" "Comm is scum". Well guess what. You sure as hell ain't IC. Lynch all liars.

[CommKnight]

Waiting for 2 more people to get in here fast and quick-end this day so cult and mafia have little time to choose their next action.

[CommKnight]

I mean hell, if you really already lost, why not self-vote? You can't win anymore anyway so not losing much.

[CommKnight]

So about to lose our Neighbourizer PT due to it only lasting 2 day cycles. That's fine, I trust ASP and he can out his role if he wishes.

I assume with all 5 of us alive, the other faction really is only 1-shot. (Or they are of the same faction and 1SVT is just messing with us). Either way, his role shows he's not the one who killed Alisae. But poisoner from my past experience has to wait an entire cycle for their target to die, so he did target GL D1 which explains why he did not push GL D2.

However, I think the 1-shot BP survivor is interesting. If the other mafia really only has one shot and wasted it on Char (instead of Alisae) then they would effectively have only the poisoner getting a kill.

GL's role must've been fucking with him. Also the Coroner I'm guessing would've been able to say GL died of poison or if another died D1, of a gunshot?

Just in case, I am going to treat this day like it's LYLO and withhold my vote for now. Chance there's a cult of some sort having 2 members or it may just be one more anti-town faction.

Right now, honestly. I think it's between Vax and Hiraki. As said before, I trust ASP's role and Edo could've hammered me! If it's 1v1v6 + survivor, then the argument that it's Vax is simple. He shot Alisae to end the day avoid dying (since he is the only one on his team). Or it could be Hiraki who initially wanted to frame Vax.

Either way, I think we should get claims out onto the table today.

[CommKnight]

Comm, if they're the same faction that incriminates you more than anything.

Actually it points right to your nose. He wanted to hang me badly. Even so much so to try and paint me as another scum before dying. Yet he always townread you and you townread him.

Remember, I call a spade a spade. My ability has been used and proven already unless I'm the ONLY person here with two actions, I can't have killed Alisae. Step back and think about that for a moment. Any townie will see it.

Before I push on, I want Vax and Edo to claim though. My guess? We can probably find the liar pretty damn quickly since all the roles are fitting their characters flavour wise one way or another.

[CommKnight]

1.) Your question is rubbish, as usual, taking what I said completely out of context. It was a set-up view. If the other scum, who shot Alisae, instead shot Char, basically that scum faction would've basically been rendered useless. But now we add a doctor into the mix and further limit that 1-shot capability. It'd be unfair to scum to have both a doctor and a 1-shot BP survivor to avoid. It'd also be unfair if he had more shots than 1SVT who was a 1-shot poisoner. So in all likelyhood he has at least one more shot or something and IS on the same side as 1SVT.

2.) You pushing me shows how little you've been analyzing anything this game. So far every single role that has popped up as been some limited-shot single ability role. In fact, EVERYTHING that has flipped has been 1-shot. Heck, even ASP is 1-shot. Which leads me to believe your "2-shot" is bullshit. From this alone you tip toward scum trying to fake claim.

3.) Due to 2 and because again, you're not paying attention. I am a PROVEN 1-shot neighbourizer. But here's the BIG kicker. I used my ability... wait for it... DAY 1!!!!!!! So unless I am the only person in the game with two abilities AND able to use them both D1. I cannot have killed Alisae.

CHECK MATE.

Just waiting for the other two to claim though before I vote, but I'm basically certain I'm voting Hiraki today.

[CommKnight]

Seriously ISO Hiraki and 1SVT together and have a laugh at the hole they dug. If it's too long to reread let me sum it up.

Hiraki: *Votes Char*
1SVT: "Hey man, we can use the Survivor later on to win."
Hiraki: "Oh yeah man, here, let me unvote and vote Edo real quick."

1SVT: "Hey, Vax is looking pretty scummy here."
Hiraki: "Yeah man, Vax definitely wasn't set up."

Hiraki: "Oh hey, the survivor will side with scum full blown if they come out and there are three of them."
Hiraki: "Hey, GL, who's better? Anyone other than 1SVT or Char though man."

Hiraki: "Oh hey, I got my VI read. That Comm guy sure is an idiot, isn't he?"

Hiraki: "Whoever posts first between Edo and Comm gets my TR, screw actually analyzing anything. Just post first and you're my town read guys!"

1SVT: "I read Comm as scum, Hiraki as town, also multi scum teams guys!"

Hiraki: "Wait a minute. Comm isn't an idiot and is zoning in on both of us, better stop calling him a VI read and try to lynch him."
(Also 299. YES... you are going to be lynched by me.)

1SVT: "Here's another read list. DON'T LYNCH HIRAKI GUYS! Nor Vax!"

1SVT: "I received information that Comm is scum on D2." (Really, when does a poisoner get such info?)
Hiraki: "Herp derp, what's going on guys?"

Hiraki: "Oh hey, I'm a two-shot Doc, everyone else is 1-shot and Comm got two abilities he used Day 1 guys, he's SCUM! I mean he's alone against 1SVT who was always gunning for him but had better powers than 1SVT, being able to end the day early and neighbourize a townie on the same day. Hahahaha, my logic is flawless!"

Anyway, hope the rest of town enjoyed my comedic TL;DR of their interactions. Now let's go through if scum had to be between Hiraki and myself.

Me:
- Has two abilities (if I am scum).
- Can use both abilities on Day 1 (if I am scum)
- 1v1'd the caught scum that NO ONE else was scum reading (other than ASP and maybe Edo who weren't nearly as active in it), pushing both their lynch and Survivor lynch through.
- Drew attention to myself and shot Alisae Day 1 who was not suspecting me and Vax was nearly lynched.

Hiraki:
- The only claimed two-shot role in the entire game so far.
- Reluctant to vote Survivor claim (and somehow even knew he was Survivor 100% which only scum would know since a real townie would assume it could be a fake claim).
- Never scum read 1SVT and aside from early D2 interactions, had nothing negative to say about 1SVT's play.
- Has tried to lurk mid-game when activity was dropping.
- Has consistently raged alongside 1SVT against me for being "VI" or being stupid.


Well Hiraki, who's the idiot now? Making that shot early D1, trying to frame Vax and, the best part? Passing me off as a VI when my reads were homing in on you and 1SVT. That was a fatal move to allow me to live past D2.

I wish I could say scum played well this game. I really do. But 1SVT's gambit and Hiraki's Doctor claim. I'm sitting here wondering how they ever thought any of their stuff wouldn't be called out.

VOTE: Hiraki - Yep, you die by my hand today. Guess you're eating those words now of not dying to me or me being a VI.

[CommKnight]

Hiroki, is there a cult in this game?

Do not fail to claim. This is important today.

Also Hiraki. Explain why you're the ONLY 2-shot so far. Go ahead. Even mafia and 3rd party was 1-shot. I'm 1-shot and so is ASP. What does that make you? How do you explain at least 6 known 1-shots with only 3 unknowns where you claim and is 2-shot. I mean hell. Even the person who killed Alisae was 1-shot. So there's a 7th 1-shot. I'm waiting on Vax and Edo to claim, but I'm pretty certain you aren't town.

[CommKnight]

Also I love how you conveniently skipped over the fact you were throwing shade my way still and refuse to answer how I could be the only person in the game with 2 abilities and be able to use them both D1.

Fastposted. You really aren't good at reading. Because in my big post I've stated MULTIPLE reasons why you're scum and we should lynch you. That and PoE narrows it to you and Vax. With the gravity leaning much more towards you.

[CommKnight]

Who is to rule out Hiraki not being recruited or the cult-leader himself? You're obsessed with the cult and I assume YOU aren't one yourself. I know my alignment is still the same. I assume ASP is still the same. So that'd leave Hiraki or Edo for cult leader. So unless you think Cult Leader is Edo, Hiraki could potentially nab us the cult itself IF there is one.

Also I want Edo's claim, but Vax is ANOTHER 1-shot. Also I see how we could've lost this if one of us visited you early on and mafia got 2 kills + survivor if we let him live.

You didn't trust me on 1SVT, in fact you trusted 1SVT. That's fine. But trust me on this. Hiraki is our best lynch candidate to win the game.

[CommKnight]

Mhmm, it's possible Vax. Also we're talking about an ability that was either used D1 or D2. So Hiraki being recruited is VERY high.

[CommKnight]

@Vax, real talk, are you recruited? You keep sheeping everyone who ever votes me.

1.) Mentioning cults is NAI at best. I've had previous experience with them in games and it's much more common than a lot of other 3rd parties. Which when we talk about the possibility of 2 opposing factions. Cult is one of the first that comes to mind.

2.) Where is Hiraki getting this 2-shot thing from me out of? He is the ONLY one who has claimed to have a 2-shot ability which I believe is 100% bullshit and poor attempt at a fake claim. Also his role basically adds onto the increasing town roles that make mafia useless.

3.) Remember, there was a SHOT D1 which is still unaccounted for from current claims and flips. Unless you are suggesting I both recruited and shot someone D1? That's a bit far fetched.

4.) ASP is not cult and thus knows I am not cult. The only one who'd vote me is Edo and you have already tried painting him as the bad guy here Hiraki.

Also Vax, I assume you're a VI or recruited if there is a cult this game. You have not helped very much this game. You refused to help me lynch a mafia poisoner. Now you refuse to help me lynch the prime baddie candidate out of everyone here.

I know Edo got more sense in him though. So I'm not worried. Town will win this game.

[CommKnight]

Doesn't seem hard for people to sell Vax on my lynch. First a mafia poisoner and now the remaining baddie.

Honestly, I'm doubting there being a cult at all. It's a bastard game. So good possibility that the roles are there to throw us off a bit.

Hiraki hangs today.

[CommKnight]

Vax is hopeless. It comes down to Edo making the right choice. Also why would I care about someone I am pretty damn sure is 100% town.

As I said, your 2-shot ability is completely off from literally EVERYONE's roles so far. Also why would I push for survivor lynch if I was cult? I'd personally let him live and win by outnumbering town the very next day.

Also need a claim from Edo when he gets online.

[CommKnight]

Isn't that funny? Edo, GL and ASP all have less posts than you and 1SVT but I TR them and SR you and him. It's almost like this gut thing is on a roll with correct reads or something. Like you must be frustrated beyond belief at the moment that it's going to be hard to escape the noose come tomorrow when if you manage somehow to mislynch me that you'll have to explain "Oh I was wrong, it must be ASP or Edo" Then not only will you have to mislynch them. You'll then have to mislynch for a THIRD day in a row.

Because I don't think there is a cult in this game. You have to manage to mislynch THREE people. Why not just give up? You can't win under these circumstances unless Vax is your cult buddy.

[CommKnight]

Let's assume for a moment you're even telling the truth. Your role is useless. Posioned targets from my experience cannot be healed. The kill D1 happened in the DAY before your action would take action.

GL was even hesitant because he thought there might not be a cult. Just that his role SUGGESTS there is a cult.

And once again, we're back to, WHO MADE THE KILL D1. Certainly not me. So who then? -> Hiraki. 100% Guarantee it!

Also, seeing as he already used his role and we're down to the neck here waiting for Edo to get in and lynch Hiraki. ASP is Barney Gumble, a 1-shot roleblocker. Which AGAIN, does not add up with Hiraki's claim. A 1-shot BP, a 2-shot doctor and a 1-shot roleblocker. All 3 able to stop mafia kills/actions and in ASP's case, even stop cult from recruiting.

Hiraki's is the only claim that doesn't add up. I don't know why the neighbourhood is limited to 2 days but nor am I going to outguess the mod on balance of it being 2-days PT.

Anyway, from your actions Vax, if there is a cult, you're with Hiraki, if there isn't Hiraki is just the final baddie and you're being a VI as usual when compared to previous days.

I'm done talking until Edo gets in here and claims. Because honestly, this is going to be like me 1v1'ing 1SVT. Nothing productive is done and Vax like always chirping in "Yeah Comm, you're cult." When last time it was "Yeah Comm, you're scum and ASP is probably your buddy.". Honestly I'm just tired of the VI play and am glad Edo is actually good at this game.

[CommKnight]

We basically needs edo's vote on comm, because ASP will likely not vote him.

Good luck with that. Edo could've lynched me before but didn't.

Also LOL at Hiraki's attempt of a case on me and failing... yet again. It's like hey, if I don't say it immediately it's like something doesn't really cross my mind until after the fact or something. Geez, almost like I develop my reads as I THINK about it further or something! MAGICAL.

Vax, if you are town and when Hiraki flips scum and it endgames into a town win. I'm going to smack you post-game for believing BOTH anti-town. Like you're getting suckered into it bad. I want you, to explain in your own words, how a cult (who we'd assume has 2 members by now) AND that shot happened D1. 2 cult, 2 scum and 1 Survivor? That would mean town was outnumbered D1 and that currently there's 3 anti-town alive. Think about that for a moment. My guess is GL's role was to throw us off.

I mean seriously, 1 scum + 2 cult left? You'd need scum to help lynch 1 of the cult and then get one or the other to help lynch cult/mafia and then lynch the final baddie as town. Don't you think that is a bit... far fetched? Like you gotta reach pretty far to assume 2 cult, 2 mafia, 1 survivor and 4 town total.

At that, Ned Flanders being Cult? Really? XD

[CommKnight]

WHAT? How could town even WIN this??? So basically I was right about the majority of them but under assumed their power... It was impossible for town to win... We had what? a 1-shot roleblock, 1-shot neighbour, 1-shot cororner and 1-shot cult cop check... Yet not a single killing role. Against 2 mafia, 2 3rd party and 2 cult (well 2 once one of the four town was recruited).

Bastard game is one thing... UNWINNABLE is another.

[CommKnight]

Also @Vax... Looks like you needed to help me lynch Hiraki with Edo's help.

[CommKnight]

Well actually his role was useless, it wouldn't fine you. Only ASP if he was targeted... But even if we lynched ASP you could just recruit ANOTHER player. Definitely not counting this game towards my record of wins/losses.

[CommKnight]

What are the chances of both Hiraki and me picking same person D1 though? XD

[CommKnight]

Also everyone who hated on my play were Mafia, Cult and 3rd party. XD Guess I was pulling the right triggers all along.

[CommKnight]

I scum read EVERYONE but GL and ASP at one point or another. Yay me. XDD (And of course not Alisae but he didn't survive long enough either way to matter).

[CommKnight]

Honestly, with this many factions at play, there needs to be more players. Town MUST have majority for it to be balanced (or have some damn good PRs). Every PR we had was very... well, they weren't really all that powerful. I get the circumstances also played against town, but when town are outnumbered from Day 1 (2 scum, 2 3rd parties + Cult is scum outnumbered already) and then having a townie be shot before town can even lynch someone. You bring it down to 3 town against 5 anti-town (with cult successful 2 town against 6 anti-town). Which by the time D1 ended, we already lost before we could have a lynch.

In the future, I suggest looking for scenarios where town loses before getting at least 1 lynch in. Lynching is town's essential power and when you take that away and not even give them a vig, you make the game too anti-town.

Again, if you were to do this again with similar number of factions. I'd suggest a pool of about 15 players. 5 anti-town and 10 town. If they all have 1-shots... you can do 5 anti-town and 7 town. Making it a 12 player game. I wouldn't go any lower than that.

That's my 2 cents on the set-up as a person who has modded games before (and many of them bastard set-ups).

[CommKnight]

Yeah, too bad the rest of the anti-town didn't help push Hiraki. Then who would've won? I mean they need 50% so what happens when SK/Mafia or Mafia/Cult remain?

[CommKnight]

Haha, you seemed like a VI sheeping both mafia and cult on me. XD Like I was getting irritated with your play becuase I wrote you off as being framed D1 by Hiraki and then you were blindly sheeping him. I wouldn't have suspected ASP without Hiraki's flip though. I trusted his 1-shot claim (which turned out to be true, just recruited early..)

[CommKnight]

Still find it funny scum thought I was cult and cult probably thought I was scum. XDDD

[CommKnight]

Char, you were one of the 4 voting me when only 5 were needed to lynch. Edo saved me from the noose that day.

It wasn't so much as having correct reads all along, it was the fact I was picking up on anti-town behaviour vs pro-town behaviour.

I also consider anything unwinnable by town if they do not control the lynch on the first day. Because in essence they will always require anti-town voting with them to lynch off other anti-town. Lynching is the biggest power of town in any game. It's the only real power they have for eliminating anti-town. Without a vig, like this game it is really the only power we have for eliminating anti-town.

My final say on it, it make it a bigger game. 9 players is rather limited for it.