Micro 736: Mafia in Blitztown (Game Over)

[esires]

VOTE: Vedith

[esires]

Echo: you town? Or maf?

[esires]

Whoa, OK then. Echo, what are you?

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@Kaboose - because I want to know. If Echo comes back before mod, I'll get to know sooner.

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Do we know how many maf there are? Not seeing it in the rules.

Possible motive for the Hopkirk NK is that Echo speculated Cloud + Hopkirk were the scumteam. If Cloud is scum, killing Hopkirk kills Echo's theory.

I haven't played a blitz game before but it seems like a brazen move to hammer so fast, even with a three day deadline.

I also feel like 31 could be a pocketing attempt.

vote: Cloud

[esires]

I second Cloud's confusion.

[esires]

Not really digging Kaboose's logic here. The wagon looked like a standard early-game wagon, and Cloud hammered so fast that there wasn't opportunity for some of the players to step off the wagon if they wanted to. Being on or off the wagon is NAI. Looks like stretch reasoning to me. Eyeing both Cloud and Kaboose now.

[esires]

I'm sticking with my Cloud vote, there was really no good reason for a hammer there.

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@Mjollnir - Vedith is a bit of a dick so unfortunately it's NAI, he was horribly anti-town in our previous game together and was willing to gamethrow because he was pouty. TBH I just don't really read his posts anymore.

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Would like to clarify that I'm referring to the "needlessly defensive" part when I say it's NAI.

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OK, so I'm definitely leaving my vote on you - in one post you've said A. that lynching me would be a mislynch, and B. you're willing to do it anyways. None of that looks like what town would do - you either know I'm town (meaning you're maf) or you're willing to lynch someone you think is town.

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Well tbh you've haven't made the choice hard for me.

[esires]

A. Getting a town player on your side, basically. When a scum player vocally townreads a townie to make the townie feel more sympathetic / allied with the scum player. Basically, getting a townie in your pocket.

B. First was saying you townread me at the end of D-1 when there really wasn't much to go on - second was when you said lynching me would be a mislynch, implying that you feel I'm town.

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Yeah, the first time was at the end of D-1, which I just noted. Then it just happened again, so I noted that too. No need to get flustered.

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Additional note, Cloud hammered someone he said he fully expected to flip green. Now he's OK with lynching me even though he thinks I'm town. Anyone seeing a pattern here?

P-edit: Yeah, I noted that it could be a pocketing attempt because it came in tandem with a very early hammer. So it's the accumulation of each of these things, not just each individual thing, that makes me feel OK with voting you. Early hammer - then saying it's on someone you said you expect to flip town - listing me as a townlean for no real reason alongside said early hammer - saying you're OK with lynching me even though you think I'm town. I'm struggling to see why I should take my vote off of you?

[esires]

Like where is the pro-town motive in any of that?

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FYI Vedith was wrong many times over in our previous game, so don't buy into his egotistical BS. He also sets up a false dichotomy in 211. I speculate Cloud + Vedith scumteam.

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You thought I was scum, you thought skitter was scum, you thought pretty much all other players were scum at some point in the game and kept saying you're always right. You even shitposted up the game to the point where it was nearly unplayable trying to get me lynched (for anyone curious start with post 1904 in this game: viewtopic.php?f=83&t=72576&start=1900). And you didn't lynch anyone. You voted for a some people, who I also voted for, and none of your contributions influenced my decision to vote for either scum player. If anyone "lynched" Dog it was me since I hammered and won the game.

Anyways, back to not reading your posts for awhile.

P-edit: I'm VT so lynch me if you must but don't let Vedith win this if he's scum, that would really bum me out.

[esires]

I would highly suggest we lynch an actual anti-town player (Cloud) instead though.

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Every significant move you've made has been anti-town, even admittedly so. So fuck your appeals, they're a joke!

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You're my strongest scumread so I'm not unvoting you because you want me to.

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Even though you've already said you think I'm town and that you're perfectly fine with lynching town. Yeah, not at all anti-town.

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Basically you are asking me to overlook everything I've spelled out before because you claim you aren't mafia, even though much of what you have done so far is more to the benefit of mafia than town. In the 10 pages of the game so far nothing anyone else has done has stood out to the degree that what you've done has. At the end of the game, what will make me feel more stupid - voting for someone who I thought was scum who turned out to be town, or NOT voting for someone who I thought was scum and having them turn out to be scum? Definitely the latter.

Either way, if you feel I'm town, it's you that should be making cases on people here, rather than wasting time voting for someone you think is town. I think there's a good chance you're scum, so I don't feel compelled to make flimsier cases on other players just because you're asking for it. Whereas you feel I'm town, and yet instead of making cases on players you think might not be town, you're voting for me anyways.

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Yeah but see you're my biggest scumread so I don't particularly care. I think your townreads are fake because I think you're scum. That's my whole point here.

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You didn't lynch a scumread. You said you fully expected him to flip green.

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36

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You don't get to play a blatantly scummy, anti-town game and then claim it's best for town to lynch me because I'm calling you out for it.

Well you do get to I guess, but it's pretty shitty.

P-edit: Yes Cloud, you've linked evidence of what I just said, what did you intend to demonstrate?

[esires]

I absolutely consider that I might be wrong, and I've accepted the possibility that I am. I explained this above. I'll feel a lot worse about allowing you off the hook if you're scum than I will if I'm just wrong. But for real, you're my strongest scumread by a mile, so why would I take time to placate and appease my strongest scumread by building cases on other players for them, especially when none of the other players stand out as strongly as scum candidates?

To echo Mjollnir's post, who are your scumreads? And why would voting one of them not be more beneficial than voting someone you think is town?

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Like I said before I'd be fine with either Cloud or Vedith today. Screenplay and Kaboose I'm null on. Ircher and Mjol I lean town on.

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Because scum!Cloud has a partner to help talk the town down from lynching them.

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If Cloud flips town I look into my null reads more closely tomorrow. On the Ircher thing I don't really get what you're saying.

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Yeah I've had the 1 lynch thing in mind, which is why Cloud's willingness to lynch someone that he thinks is town today stands out and looks even worse. Whether I'm right or wrong I have a scum read on Cloud whereas he is fine with mislynching today just to take some pressure off himself.

If Cloud hammered as town he's still town so scum gain from his lynch. I'm not sure what the point of that question is though. Whatever alignment Cloud is not, gains from his lynch.

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Don't know if I'm at L-1 or lynched, but either way I already claimed. If Cloud did hammer me that's darkly humorous because it will be the second time in the game he's hammered someone he openly said he thought was town. If Cloud is scum and town lets him get away with this it's sad.

[esires]

OK Cloud what's your gameplan for D3? How do you plan to find the actual scum? Because so far you've found two townies, and hammered at least one (maybe two, waiting for VC). So how are you going to actually contribute to the town's win condition tomorrow?

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You brought the town to MYLO if I'm lynched and a scum NK goes through so how exactly have you helped the town at all and why does no one else seem to care that you haven't?

P-edit - not my last words, derp.

[esires]

Here is why arguing that your meta should let you get away with this is such a bad argument: because you're aware of your meta. You know it's your meta. You can follow or go against it as you choose. So it says nothing about your alignment in this game.

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@Screen - My reads: I think Vedith is likely Cloud's scum partner. I'm neutral on Ircher, and I lean town on Mjollnir. If the team isn't Vedith and Cloud I can see Kaboose and Screen potentially being the team.

Mjollnir I am pretty secure in my townread on. Nothing I've read has struck me as scummy, it's all been well-reasoned and pro-town.

Ircher is a weaker read and there isn't a lot to go on.

On both screen and Kaboose, I could see a potential scumteam there. One thing I'm keeping in mind this game is that scum have daytalk. These two players are contributing about the same amount of content - just enough to stay under the radar. This leads me to believe they are potentially coordinating in the PT and trying to lay low. The posts they do make are pretty safe, too - not much scumhunting, not going out on limbs. Just going with the flow of the town. So I could see this as a potential scumteam, but this read is not as strong as Vedith + Cloud.

Scum daytalk also makes me speculate about the coordination between Vedith and Cloud, though. Vedith and Cloud have been on the same wavelength and I can easily see that being something they've worked out together over the course of the day.

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@Mjollnir -

I did comment on Kaboose's on/off wagon theory in both 114 and 126. The theory didn't make much sense to me so there wasn't much else to be said.

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What should strike everyone as a little weird is if you ISO Vedith and ISO Cloud, they talk

about

each other a good bit, back each other up, and call each other town, but they don't directly interact with each other. They don't quote each other or talk to each other.

Perhaps because they're interacting directly in the PT?

[esires]

Cloud really doesn't want to lose this mislynch guys... help him out!

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Let's lynch you instead then. You can put yourself at L-1 right now.

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I posted my reads above, once a player who I don't consider scum asked me to. So you can peruse and address those at your leisure. That's what you wanted; now you have it. But the truth is you just don't want to lose this mislynch.

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OK so frankly I find it a bit embarrassing that the town is allowing this to happen but it's almost definitely too late to turn things around at this point. Seems clear there will not be a Cloud lynch organized before deadline. Kaboose has been parked on my wagon all day. Hasn't said much and voted me based on his weird "on/off wagon" idea. Has checked in a couple times but contributed nearly nothing. I would much prefer to lynch Cloud but Kaboose is preferable to me so I'm willing to vote him. If nothing else has happened I will hammer myself before deadline to avoid a no lynch.

unvote

vote: Kaboose

[esires]

K it's my bedtime GL town

unvote

vote: esires

[esires]

omg

[esires]

Well a big takeaway for me this game is that town will lie just as much as scum. I generally expect town to be honest about roles and actions because I myself tend to be, but this game totally changed my perspective on that. Well done everyone and I promise not to be as tunnely next time around.

[esires]

Yeah it seemed like your joke was taken seriously and you just went with it. But Cloud - you were just a regular cop, weren't you?