Micro 736: Mafia in Blitztown (Game Over)

[Ircher]

prodge be back soon
VOTE: bedith

[Ircher]

For a blitz, this game sure is slow.

[Ircher]

VOTE: Echo
L-1; let's get things going!

[Ircher]

As Screen says, the only one of those that would have made sense would be Ircher, as the other three were doing this during RVS, it was literally the first three votes of the game. And none of them posted after Ircher put them at L-1 so none of them can be questioned as to why their votes were still on him.

You raise a possibly valid point about not suspecting Ircher for being impatient though.

It's a blitz game and pretty much nothing was happening. What better way to get the game moving than bringing someone to L-1?

I didn't expect a hammer; I simply wanted to get the game moving.

[Ircher]

It's a blitz game and pretty much nothing was happening. What better way to get the game moving than bringing someone to L-1?

I didn't expect a hammer; I simply wanted to get the game moving.

Well I'm going to assume you have an opinion on the hammer then?

Did you believe Echo to be scum?

Not really, I just noted it was L-2 and thought I could get the game moving by doing an L-1.

As far as the hammer goes -- I was quite surprised and while I am leaning towards scum!Cloud, I'm still considering what scum!Cloud has to gain from making such a blatant move that is bound to cause him trouble the following day.

[Ircher]

VOTE: srceenplay

Because they were the third vote on the wagon.

??? The first three voted in succession.

If anyone on the wagon should be scrutinized, it should be Cloud and me. I voted long after the initial 3 votes (as well as after my initial RVS vote.) Cloud hammered for what can at best be considered an OMGUS vote.

[Ircher]

UNVOTE:

REASON:

I was going to vote srceenplay from the wagon because of them being 3rd vote. That was the only thing I had from D1.

However, i love their idea of voting off the wagon. I think that's exactly why someone on the wagon was killed.

Makes sense scum would vote too. Like if scum want to kill on the wagon, I think town should want to kill off the wagon.

VOTE: esires

You still haven't explained how srceenplay being 3rd on the wagon makes him scum.
VOTE: Kaboose

[Ircher]

It's a blitz game and pretty much nothing was happening. What better way to get the game moving than bringing someone to L-1?

I didn't expect a hammer; I simply wanted to get the game moving.

Well I'm going to assume you have an opinion on the hammer then?

Did you believe Echo to be scum?

Not really, I just noted it was L-2 and thought I could get the game moving by doing an L-1.

As far as the hammer goes -- I was quite surprised and while I am leaning towards scum!Cloud, I'm still considering what scum!Cloud has to gain from making such a blatant move that is bound to cause him trouble the following day.

Why take the risk then if you truly didn't believe Echo to be scum then? I don't get it..did you seriously expect that might not be one of the possible outcomes in a game specifically advertsied as being fast-paced that someone might get a hair-trigger? Also what was wrong with the pace as it was? I mean, a page in four hours isn't quite maybe "Blitz" but what was wrong with the idea of letting it develop by itself organically or maybe just giving it a bit of time?

I didn't expect there to be any risk. Perhaps a bit on the impatient side, but the fact was that even without the people who hadn't confirmed yet, the game didn't look like it was going anywhere anytime soon.

[Ircher]

verall theres wasnt a single scum gain for me to put myself on the light to just hammer a random guy with subpar posts who could very well be a mislynch down the road from a scum pov.

Not exactly.

It basically amounted to a free-hammer. That's always a plus for scum, especially if they think they can talk themselves out of it the following day.

[Ircher]

UNVOTE:

REASON:

I was going to vote srceenplay from the wagon because of them being 3rd vote. That was the only thing I had from D1.

However, i love their idea of voting off the wagon. I think that's exactly why someone on the wagon was killed.

Makes sense scum would vote too. Like if scum want to kill on the wagon, I think town should want to kill off the wagon.

VOTE: esires

You still haven't explained how srceenplay being 3rd on the wagon makes him scum.
VOTE: Kaboose

I think I read it in the wiki about the 3rd vote on a wagon is often times scum.

They literally happened one after the other....

[Ircher]

This is basically a prodge cuz there's really nothing new to say.

Mjollnir reads as town. Cloud reads as possibly town. Everyone else (besides Kaboose) I'm more or less null on.

[Ircher]

I'm sticking with my Cloud vote, there was really no good reason for a hammer there.

Im going to officially appeal to you because i dont wanna ml someone else just because they scumread me.

This is my town game, you can disagree with the hammer but that doesnt make me mafia, if you dont get to at least reconsider that very weak read of yours on my slot, i will vote you and you will get lynched

Honestly though, I think that hammer et cetera was probably the most that's happened so far this game.

And yes im willing to lynch someone whos town if it serves my wincon

I'd say 9/10 times, mislynching a town player does not serve a town win condition.

(There are certain LyLo situations where keeping a certain townie alive is an almost guaranteed loss. This isn't one of them.)

Additional note, Cloud hammered someone he said he fully expected to flip green. Now he's OK with lynching me even though he thinks I'm town. Anyone seeing a pattern here?

I mean, unless something better comes up, I'm not really against a Cloud lynch. At the same time, I would be careful -- reads like that can easily be wrong.

I town read Cloud

Why?

Ircher is obvious Scum when Scum

Pretty sure the opposite is true.

We are also not lynching Cloud or Kaboose. The fact they aren't considered town shows that I'm playing with a more newbie bunch.

*hrm* Actually, it may or may not be a good idea to lynch you down the road... Depends on how the game goes.

I would highly suggest we lynch an actual anti-town player (Cloud) instead though.

No. This logic comes from inexperience. Town can do anti-town stuff. Try a little harder. Keep an open perspective.

The behavior itself of tunneling me and not trying to sort other slots is anti-town and is in itself an hindrance to my wincon

That really doesn't matter if you consider it antitown. Tunnels are only issue when they span the entire game with little to no basis and are almost completely unabled to be swayed. Esires case on you has a solid (yet not conclusive) basis, and it could hardly be considered a deathtunnel.

Basically you are asking me to overlook everything I've spelled out before because you claim you aren't mafia, even though much of what you have done so far is more to the benefit of mafia than town. In the 10 pages of the game so far nothing anyone else has done has stood out to the degree that what you've done has. At the end of the game, what will make me feel more stupid - voting for someone who I thought was scum who turned out to be town, or NOT voting for someone who I thought was scum and having them turn out to be scum? Definitely the latter.

(Scum would love to hide at the moment... Participation is quite low; of course people like Cloud and you would stand out a lot right now...)

Yeah but see you're my biggest scumread so I don't particularly care. I think your townreads are fake because I think you're scum. That's my whole point here.

....

Retrospect was after the hammer, i knew it was a bad move but i just gambled it, then thought about his vote and expected a green flip

I don't exactly buy this... If you knew it was a gamble, why'd you take it? Especially considering it's a micro so every lynch counts. Sure, I can understand thinking in retrospect post-hammer that maybe you were wrong, but by saying it was a gamble, it means you were aware pre-hammer that you may have been wrong.

Confirmed Town (from my PoV): Ircher
Likely Town: Mjollnir
Leaning Town:
Neutral Town: Srceenplay, Esires

Neutral Scum: Vedith, Cloud, Kaboose

[Ircher]

Why?

Pedit: I really have not a lot to go by. I see no reason to change my vote, but the three at the bottom are of no particular order.

[Ircher]

Why?

Pedit: I really have not a lot to go by. I see no reason to change my vote, but the three at the bottom are of no particular order.

Given how close to deadline we are, I thought I'd make sure it was clear where your voting intentions lay. Also I ask so I can draw associative leads later.

(The why was to Vedith who said you were scum.)

[Ircher]

What's funny about it? I explained why.

[Ircher]

Here is why arguing that your meta should let you get away with this is such a bad argument: because you're aware of your meta. You know it's your meta. You can follow or go against it as you choose. So it says nothing about your alignment in this game.

This isn't strictly true... Depends on context.

Some users can be aware of their meta but not exactly strictly able to manipulate it.

[Ircher]

VOTE: Cloud

Kaboose has no traction and I may or may not be on again before deadline.

[Ircher]

I just joined therefore am conftown

Why the fuck is cloud still alive
VOTE: cloud

What the heck even is this?

How are you conftown?

[Ircher]

Don't be rude. You came out stating you were conf!town in your first post because you replaced in. You couldn't have possibly known that Cloud was Cop and checked you at the moment you made that post because Cloud hadn't made that post yet.

I claim town neighbor.

[Ircher]

Or it could be a scumpost going LAMIST.

[Ircher]

You say that as if scum have never done it before.

[Ircher]

Sorry, I popcorn Srceenplay.

[Ircher]

and then immediately pushes on partner, who hardclaims even night cop and an inno on the first guy

on fucking mylo

Your point makes no sense.

I could not possibly read the post with your inno before I read your first post. I respond sequentially.

[Ircher]

if he townreads me, you and ircher are confirmed mafia, maybe hes more sure on him than on you in the event that im mafia

Umm... Clarify? Elaborate?

Also, I don't necessarily townread you right now, but lynching you is risky because neighbors aren't very powerful and even-night cop is pretty weak in a closed setup.

like literraly in 2 minutes, i would have to play to hardclaim even night cop and inno that random guy voting me who i have no knowledge over, not being counterclaimed by any investigative role as of yet and do so when i wouldnt be in autoloss as scum

What exactly does this have to do with me?

So I'm like super sleep deprived and I decided to check in on the phone before I went to sleep. This post may come across to some of you as weird, stupid, or maybe even entirely nonsensical

But with only vts dead on the town side (and 3 town alive), how on the planet can you believe a neighbor claim? What the fuck kinda setup has a single neighbor and an even night cop?

Is a neighbor even still a neighbor, by the definition of the word, if there exist no other neighbors?

pedit: please unvote screen
I wanna look at this tomorrow because he might just be a vi with a single digit iq

Your setup-spec is really off. A pair of neighbors adds almost

zero

power to town. Why is 2 an unusual number for neighbors? How does all the dead people being VTs have anything to do with the possibility of neighbors?

Yes but ircher is the initial neihborizer correct

I'm not a neighborizer; I'm neighbors with Vedith. I cannot add additional players to the hood.

I would like to hear about their neighborhood discussions.

I tried discussing a few things with Vedith such as why he townread Cloud and Kaboose Day 2. I also asked why he thought I was a good lynch.

I will state that I got less than satisfactory answers from Vedith. He mainly ignored me / gave reasons that boiled down to "I'm Vedith and I'm always right."

Cloud, in what planet does a town fake claim neighbor to support another neighbor fakeclaim

Never. And scum wouldn't do that either. Please remember that neighbors can be both town and scum.

Why do neighbor and not mason?

Because if Cloud is town telling the truth, then there are two scum in {Srceenplay, Vedith, Ircher}. Therefore, either I am scum or Vedith is scum if you believe Cloud's claim; we cannot both be town neighbors. Also, since two scum neighbors make very little sense, there is a high probability that you are scum regardless.

The same could be said for two Town neighbors. Why not just confirmed masons then?

There is a huge difference: neighbors DONT KNOW the alignment of their partners; masons DO. A pair of masons is on the same level as a Tracker whereas neighbors are on the power level of say a fruit vendor.

At worst, it could be this type of neihborhoods where both shares a PT but they cant recruit additionnal persons and start with that PT d1

That is the case -- Vedith and I started together in a neighborhood PT that is open at all times.

So why do you think Cloud is 100% confirmed?

He's not, but to claim a Cop role in general is super risky in a micro due to a high chance that massclaim will out them. (Also, on second thought, I do totally believe the claim.)

[Ircher]

VOTE: Srceenplay

[Ircher]

So who is scum to you Ircher?
Me and Vedith?

Obviously. I believe Cloud's claim and I'm town.

[Ircher]

Because it is the correct move for town. This is LyLo.

There is probably a 1 in 2 chance of Vedith being scum from a neutral pov.
There is probably a 2 in 2 chance of Srceenplay being scum from a neutral pov.

[Ircher]

There is probably a 2 in 2 chance of Srceenplay being scum from a neutral pov.

2in2
That's 100%.
That's untrue.

If you believe Vedith and my claim and Cloud's claim, then that leaves two possibilities:

Ircher/Srceenplay
Vedith/Srceenplay

[Ircher]

Honestly, town should've lynched Srceenplay in most circumstances if Vedith and I were truly neighbors.

But gg.

[Ircher]

Also, Vedith could've done his idea of claiming VT and flipping me and then lynch say Srceenplay in LyLo... (Though, Cloud might Cop Vedith... So still pretty risky)

I never claimed my neighbor in the original post that I claimed in. I didn't think we'd win though if we both claimed VT since Cloud claimed Even Cop and I feared that Srceenplay may have been the other PR.