Micro 737: Chosen Mafia (Day 4)
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tman2nd
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tman2nd
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As long as people are aware it's L-1, a quickhammer would be very scummy. Scum who is quickhammering wouldn't be able to pretend that they didn't notice.In post 26, Keychain wrote:Hi!
VOTE: tman2nd
You've been the third vote on a wagon that reached L-1, twice, pointed out when it was at L-1 but didn't think it worth unvoting even though scum could very well be angling for a quickhammer on a chosen townie. You seem like you're trying to slip under the radar by following popular opinion.-
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tman2nd Goon
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When LUV said this, I assumed it was because they hadn't noticed that they had put PMysterious at L-1 and now realized it when Dunn unvoted.
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tman2nd Goon
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I suppose mafia could think it's a good idea to trade a mafia for a chosen townie (I wouldn't), but this would always be a possibility when someone is at L-1. I'm not opposed to people being at L-1, my concern was with people being at unanounced L-1.In post 34, Keychain wrote:
Depends on the scumteam - they might think it would still leave them in a better position, since their major obstacle is removed from the game. You're giving them the opportunity to make that choice - scum can quickhammer if it puts them in a better position, or they can not. But it's not a cut and dried "they definitely won't so it's fine" kind of situation.In post 28, tman2nd wrote: As long as people are aware it's L-1, a quickhammer would be very scummy. Scum who is quickhammering wouldn't be able to pretend that they didn't notice.
I'm not sure what the contradiction there is. One post is talking about a case where it has been made clear that someone is at L-1, while the other is talking about a case where it hasn't.In post 35, Dunnstral wrote:In post 28, tman2nd wrote:As long as people are aware it's L-1, a quickhammer would be very scummy. Scum who is quickhammering wouldn't be able to pretend that they didn't notice.In post 33, tman2nd wrote:When LUV said this, I assumed it was because they hadn't noticed that they had put PMysterious at L-1 and now realized it when Dunn unvoted.
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tman2nd Goon
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tman2nd Goon
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Why did this make you want to vote Bulbazoor?
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tman2nd Goon
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@Bulbazoor:Expanding on Keychain's question, where you aware that PM was at L-1? If so, why did you put him there without announcing it?
I don't think you can have a post restriction in an open setup without it being part of the rules of that set up, because a post restriction is part of your role.In post 48, Gorny wrote:Yes I do think Dunn's posting is suspicious. I had considered asking if post restrictions was allowed or not based on the rules, but then realized, I might not get an answer from the mod either way. So I can't be sure. I've seen post restrictions before, but never saw a rule in a game allowing them or not, so you never know when someone is faking it.
What about what Dunn has "said" has been towny to you?In post 49, Keychain wrote:So to clarify - you think it's suspicious because it could be feigning a post restriction? I can see that.
However I think the actions he's taken and points he's made have been reasonably towny, regardless of whether he expressed them in pictures or words.-
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tman2nd Goon
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I don't think that would be an open setup. We know what all the roles in the game are. It's just Mafia, Vanilla Townies, and Chosen Townies.In post 52, Gorny wrote:In post 51, tman2nd wrote:@Bulbazoor:Expanding on Keychain's question, where you aware that PM was at L-1? If so, why did you put him there without announcing it?In post 48, Gorny wrote:Yes I do think Dunn's posting is suspicious. I had considered asking if post restrictions was allowed or not based on the rules, but then realized, I might not get an answer from the mod either way. So I can't be sure. I've seen post restrictions before, but never saw a rule in a game allowing them or not, so you never know when someone is faking it.I don't think you can have a post restriction in an open setup without it being part of the rules of that set up, because a post restriction is part of your role.
What about what Dunn has "said" has been towny to you?In post 49, Keychain wrote:So to clarify - you think it's suspicious because it could be feigning a post restriction? I can see that.
However I think the actions he's taken and points he's made have been reasonably towny, regardless of whether he expressed them in pictures or words.
As t the bolded: I've played games where post restrictions could be inflicted by a player onto another player (through the mod) and not mentioned in the rules if there was or was not a post restriction in game. So I can never be sure one way or the other.
Night.-
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tman2nd Goon
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In the first post, I'm talking about the reason why I'm not worried about someone being at L-1 if people know that that's the case.
In the second post, I was saying that the reason I hadn't voted LUV for putting someone at L-1 unannounced was because It seemed like they had already acknowledged that that had happened, so I didn't have any reason to push in that direction. With Bulbazoor, they put PM at L-1 didn't say anything, and still hasn't said anything about it.-
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tman2nd Goon
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I guess LUV could be scum trying to sneekily put someone at L-1, but I didn't think that at the time. In fact, when Bulba made his L-1 vote, I initially just pointed out the L-1. I didn't really think to vote him until Jin did in 20. Since Bulba has still not responded to anything about all this, that's where I want to keep my vote right now.
@Dunnstral
So, have any conclusions based on the questions you've been asking me that you'd like to share?-
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tman2nd Goon
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So, I see Bulbazoor has explained himself. I'm going to still vote him because the unannounced L-1's are the most suspicious things that have happened so far. And yes, I know this applies to LUV and PM as well, but I only have one vote. I'll also echo that I would also like to see more substance from Dunn. Like I said in an earlier post, does he have anything to say based on the questioning he's given me for example?
When did you comment on the wagons?In post 69, Gorny wrote:I'll admit, I don't have anything to add yet, other than following or commenting on the wagons on Bulbazoor and PMysterious. Though i am suspicious of Dunn for communicating solely by pictures from the 1930's.-
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tman2nd
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Why would Dunn be have BTD's partner as scum?In post 76, Gorny wrote:Either Dunn is scum and ids BTD's partner - or Dunn bought BTD's line of reasoning.
That's true. I think this gives Dunn town points.If Dunn is scum, then staying odd Pm's wagon if it goes to lynch would be a good thing.
I interpreted that as referring to Dunn unvoting because it was L-1.Also, I'm not sure how Dunn catching the fact that Bulb replaced Sulfur is a "good catch" since it happened in pre game and not once the game started, it's not like people ere talking about Sulfur already and then Dunn points out Sulfur isn't playing.@LUVclarification on this?
40 wasn't directed at Bulba.Also noting that Bulba hasn't answered any questions directed at him (post]38[/post], 40
I think that's a valid answer to the questions (aside from the one about his town read of Dunn). It doesn't make his L-1 vote less suspicious, but it does answer the questions.
Why BTD?So after that I'm more suspicious of Bulba than anyone and only slightly as far as Dunn and BTD are concerned.-
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tman2nd Goon
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I mean have BTD as a partner.In post 79, tman2nd wrote: Why would Dunn be have BTD's partner as scum?-
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tman2nd
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tman2nd Goon
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I would really like to hear more from these five players:
Lil Uzi Vert
BTD6_maker
Secret Agent Jin (or rather his replacement) Pedit: Looks like their here.
Bulbazoor
Dunnstral
PMysterious seems kind of town to me. His arguments on Bulbazoor seem natural.
Not sure about Gorny. His suspicions of BTD confuse me. But, he could be town. Null.
I've liked what I've seen from Keychain. She's made well reasoned posts. So, a bit of a town read here.
Dunnstral hasn't really made any actual stances. He's only really pointed to things. But, the unvote at L-1 does nudge him into the town camp for me. I'd like to see more though.
Bulbazoor is my biggest suspicion right now. The accidental L-1 vote is possible for town, but it does suggest scumminess. That plus their lack of any real content makes them my top lynch candidate.-
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tman2nd
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I think he explained your second question here.In post 87, Bulbazoor wrote:Here's where I didn't unvote to get reactions. I saw all of you asking me to unvote prior but left the vote up for a bit longer in case I could gauge some reactions out of you guys since the game is still at an early stage. That's why I didn't respond to the votes at that particular time.
I wouldn't know how likely a a tactic that is because I only have a few completed games on this site.-
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tman2nd Goon
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I guess the lack of content part is less a reason that he is suspicious and more of a reason I want to pressure him to make more content. Like, what good is making a wagon on someone if you're just going to let them get out of it by not saying much. They did respond, but just to the accusations and they haven't said anything about anyone else.-
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tman2nd Goon
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The main reason I choose to vote Bulba is first off because I hadn't thought about how LUV also qualified for that reasoning. And then later, when it was pointed out, Bulba is the one who had votes on them, so it would be easier to pressure him. Plus, isn't LUV V/LA and with an end date that is right after I go V/LA? But, that is a good point how in that scenario, LUV's vote did nearly lead to that situation I was worried about. I just can't easily pressure them when I'm going to be V/LA once I'm not.In post 113, Keychain wrote:
This sort of thing is why.In post 70, tman2nd wrote:So, I see Bulbazoor has explained himself. I'm going to still vote him because the unannounced L-1's are the most suspicious things that have happened so far. And yes, I know this applies to LUV and PM as well, but I only have one vote.
tman:Assuming Bulba is being honest about not realising his vote was L-1, that means that LUV's unannounced L-1 vote wasvery nearly a quickhammer. If Dunn hadn't unvoted, that would have been Day 1 over right there.
So if you're voting people for unannounced votes, that means that LUV's vote was the one that came the closest to the actual situation you claim to be worried about.
Why does this not concern you?
I'm not using policy. Unannounced L-1 is just the most suspicious thing I've seen so far.And why are you using a policy (not announcing L-1) to determine your vote instead of looking for scum?
...In post 115, Dunnstral wrote:In post 95, tman2nd wrote:Dunnstral hasn't really made any actual stances. He's only really pointed to things.
This.In post 114, Keychain wrote:
Early on, it seems someone could potentially try and lurk away a wagon because it's unlikely to go through based on lack of content.In post 112, Mulch wrote:That's true. But although you are right about the wagon being pointless, don't you think he would want to get out of it if he's scum, and be more apathetic as town? Considering the game state.-
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tman2nd
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I should take a look at that math by BTD. I might have had the wrong idea about how good it would be for mafia to trade for a chosen townie.
No, I'm not voting to pressure for content per se. It's just that when three people have done the same scummy thing, voting for the one who is more likely to respond is best assuming there's nothing else to push me in a different direction.In post 118, Keychain wrote:
That makes sense, if you choose your votes primarily for the purpose of pressuring someone for content. I don't really, so this could be a theory disagreement on this point.tman2nd wrote: The main reason I choose to vote Bulba is first off because I hadn't thought about how LUV also qualified for that reasoning. And then later, when it was pointed out, Bulba is the one who had votes on them, so it would be easier to pressure him. Plus, isn't LUV V/LA and with an end date that is right after I go V/LA? But, that is a good point how in that scenario, LUV's vote did nearly lead to that situation I was worried about. I just can't easily pressure them when I'm going to be V/LA once I'm not.
Once again, that's not the reason I'm voting him. It's the reason I choose to remain on him rather than switch to a different player who made an unannounced L-1.But this post does echo my earlier concern and the original reason for my vote - you are following popular opinion. You are staying on a wagon because there are other people on it. Why?
The list of people I wanted to hear more from was not a list of candidates for lynching. It was just a list of players I wanted to here more from. The list of candidates would be the people who made unannounced L-1 votes. The lack of content aspect of my statement there was because Bulbazoor had only responded to the questions about his L-1 vote and hadn't done anything like actually come to any conclusions based on the reactions he got.In 95, you listed a bunch of people that you wanted to hear more from. Then you reiterated your vote on Bulba was for "lack of any real content", as well as being scummy within the small amount of content given.
You've picked a single one of a number of potential candidates, without really looking at the others.
Until just now, he hadn't really made any stances (aside from the PM vote in his very first post). That's why I listed him as people I want to hear more of. He still really hasn't really made any clear stances with his recent post.What do you think about the content BTD6 has provided so far?You've given thoughts on and/or interacted with everyone else, but very little on BTD6.
LUV has less content than Bulba the only thing I can say about LUV is his L-1 vote. That does lean him into scum territory, but I don't have anything else to say.More on LUV as well, please. He and Bulba are pretty similar with regards to content. The V/LA is not a good reason to withhold a scumread - is there something else?
I thought you where scumreading him? You're voting him after all. That doesn't seem to match up with you not being able to come up with a scum motivation for his actions.In post 119, Gorny wrote:
lIn post 97, Mulch wrote:Gorny, mysterious, and tman are the scummiest after a quick read. Gorny, why do you think bulbs would be so blatantly putting people at l-1 as either allignment? Like, assume he's town and then that he's scum. Why would he do these things?
Don't know. Only he can answer that question and I bet he won't do so.
Random guess, if he's town, he might be trying to get a reaction out of people.
If he's scum...well.
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tman2nd Goon
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I think he answers your questions here.In post 87, Bulbazoor wrote:Here's where I didn't unvote to get reactions. I saw all of you asking me to unvote prior but left the vote up for a bit longer in case I could gauge some reactions out of you guys since the game is still at an early stage. That's why I didn't respond to the votes at that particular time.-
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That's what it seems like to me. But, yeah I would like what he got from the reactions as well.In post 130, Keychain wrote:Oh hey. I don't know if you're talking to me or PM, but I think I just needed to think about that a bit longer. I thought that quote contradicted 66, but maybe it's just confusingly worded. So he deliberately didn't unvote in 44 in order to get reactions?
Questions on what reactions he got still stand.-
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Could you answer my question in 123?In post 134, Mulch wrote:I'm extremely sorry but I may have to push this once again. I may be able to do stuff in like 2 hours-
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tman2nd
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I hope you get around to it before I have to go early tomorrow morning.In post 132, Bulbazoor wrote:When I get around to it, I'll post a list with my reads.-
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tman2nd Goon
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What do you mean by being too self aware in explaining votes?In post 143, Mulch wrote:TBH Tman did two things that I consider a pretty decent scumtell in being too self aware in explaining votes, and quoting someone's post and saying "this." like, in 116.
I didn't think any lone was scummy because of pressure. Pressure was just the reason I have kept my vote on Bulba rather than switching to a different player who did the same L-1 thing.The thing really scummy for me here is the deflection on how they didn't respond to the UZI point, by saying "I could pressure him but not him."
I mean, I guess that could be a valid explanation. But really? You didn't even think someone else was scummy based on pressure? The things aren't really related to each other.
not the most incriminating thing though.I don't know if that's fake. But, I'm losing my town read on him.
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tman2nd Goon
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But, in 143 you were pointing out some things you thought was scummy about me. Is this gut read, in contrast to that?In post 149, Mulch wrote: 2) I've been getting gut town vibes from him too.-
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tman2nd Goon
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So, I'm about to be out of range for a while. It doesn't seem like Bulba is a likely lynch today. So, I'm voting Gorny because that has some possibility and a couple of things he's said hasn't made sense to me. Like his read on Bulba. Also his earlier read on BTD.
I might get back in time change my vote, but maybe not.
VOTE: Gorny-
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tman2nd Goon
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I'm back. I don't want to lynch PM. I don't find him very scummy. And BTD has not contributed well. I agree with Keychain's case on them. So, between those two, I would prefer to lynch BTD. I would still like to lynch Gorny as well, so if the votes swing back that way, I will put my vote back there. But, it looks like I'm now the only one voting him.In post 154, Mulch wrote:I'm on mobile but in terms of abstaining myself from guilt, I don't know what you mean, I can promise I just don't want to feel like shit if I white knight a scum.
The vibe of confidence and paranoia I am scum is what's getting him the gut vibe.
I think overall mysterious will be my ideal lynch for today. But I'm not sure yet. Want to reread the game.
Town reads on Uzi Keychain and maybe a slight one on dunnstrral and bulbs.
VOTE: BTD6_Maker-
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tman2nd Goon
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tman2nd
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i've got to go to sleep. good night,.In post 154, Mulch wrote:I'm on mobile but in terms of abstaining myself from guilt, I don't know what you mean, I can promise I just don't want to feel like shit if I white knight a scum.
The vibe of confidence and paranoia I am scum is what's getting him the gut vibe.
I think overall mysterious will be my ideal lynch for today. But I'm not sure yet. Want to reread the game.
Town reads on Uzi Keychain and maybe a slight one on dunnstrral and bulbs.-
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tman2nd
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BTD6_maker and Mulch are all unlikely to be scum because they had the power to prevent PM from getting lynched, but didn't. And, I think bussing is a much riskier move in this set up because you can lose without being ever lynched yourself.
Bulbazoor no longer is suspicious for the unannounced L-1 because it was on mafia. Of course, now that we know it was a mistake, it could have been a mistake as mafia as well.
Thing is, if he hadn't done this, PM wouldn't have been lynched.In post 201, Gorny wrote:BTD6:First vote on PM, never unvoted. It's possible he's PM's scum partner and voted him first as a cover, that way if PM ended up lynched, BTD doesn't look scummy where the wagon is concerned.
31 isn't pushing any lynch. It's just answering Keychain's question in 30. Also, 117 is my post.Dunn:Second vote on PM, then unvoted in 14 and voted Bulba in 15. It looks innocent, but since I am already suspicious of the "post restriction", it looks more suspicious in that light. Also of note is his 31 and 117. Since Dunn is only posting images, it seems like he was trying to push the wagon on PM, this doesn't really fit with Dunn being PM's scum partner, but I'm noting it nevertheless.
Check out the day start.LUV4th vote on PM - of note is his 170 Where he says he's comfortable lynching PM
Jin is Mulch now.JinVoted bulb, nothing else.
MulchI think - the last vote on PM before end of day. Noting his 97, 103, 169. 170.
Why BTD? Are you saying that their vote on PM makes them more likely to be mafia? Because that's all you've mentioned about them in this post.Out of the above, it's possible PM's scum partners are among:
Keychain
BTD
Dunn
Tman
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I'm gonna take a closer look at Gorny, Dunn and Keychain now.-
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tman2nd Goon
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Hmm?In post 205, Gorny wrote:I was going in order of posts.-
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And that is a response to?In post 207, Gorny wrote:
Counting the lynch votes as they happened, not by how they were in final total.-
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tman2nd Goon
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I've come around on Gorny. I think he's town. A couple reasons. He moved away from the Bulbazoor wagon onto Dunnstral which could doesn't mean too much because PM wasn't in much danger at the time, but he decided to stick on that vote which wasn't gaining any traction even after PM was in danger. Then today, he seemed a bit mixed up on the fact that LUV was killed last night. It could be an act, but It doesn't seem like it to me.
At this point, I'm thinking PM's partner was on the BTD wagon. I know it's not me, so I'm thinking one of Dunnstral or Keychain. Haven't quite decided who I think is more likely.
@Gorny: Why?-
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tman2nd Goon
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I meant to say Mulch here.In post 210, tman2nd wrote: @Gorny: Why?-
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tman2nd Goon
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That makes sense.In post 160, PMysterious wrote:Keychain wrote:
(bolding mine)PMysterious wrote:Wouldn't putting someone at L-1 without reason give the most reaction?
Can you give your opinion on any other players? You jumped on Bulba pretty early. Though if you're town, I suppose you've got more reason than anyone else to be paranoid that he was trying to quickhammer a Chosen townie.
I'd also like more explanation on the bolded - I have no idea what you mean here.
For the bold part (which I put by itself), I meant that he put me at L-1 without giving any real reason for the vote. Notice how Bulba was looking for reactions (in his earlier posts), but he didn't know he put me at L-1. So, that could mean he was expecting to hammer with the post, or he just wanted to see how I react under pressure, and he decided to add extra pressure.
Now, onto my reads as of now, besides Bulbafake (since he's scum).
Lil Uzi Vert: Null (Nothing that screams town or scum to me, and he's on V/LA as of now. It would be best to ask of him to say some more once he gets off.
tman22: Town (Pretty active, and town like to me. While also V/LA, he's communicated a lot more than Lil Uzi Vert, and plenty of others in this game.)
Gorny: Null/Scum (Active, yet suspicious. Mostly targeting someone for a speech thing that is going on with Dunn, more so than actual scumhunting.)
BTD6_maker: Null (Not very active, but he's under V/LA anyway at the moment, and he did start the wagon against me, but I'm not one to hold grudges unless you are really suspicious, and his reasoning was understandable, given the circumstances of this game.)
Keychain: Town (Very active, engaging with the other players, and just all around a solid guy at the moment. I don't really see any more scum elements.)
Mulch: Null/Town (Can't say much at the moment of making this, but Mulch might be more Town than scum, as throughout the 2 days he has played, he's given quite the input.)
Dunnstral: Town (They say a picture is worth a thousand words, and Dunn has pointed out quite a few things, with good reactions to boot. Can't really say anything negative about Dunn, as pointing stuff out that might have been missed is always something that is useful to look into.)
VOTE: Dunnstral
Looking at the end of the day when the BTD wagon was formed, both Keychain and Dunnstral made sense in how they formed the wagon. So, it's coming down to how scummy/towny they seem to me. Keychain still looks like to town to me. Even when I've disagreed, her thought process has made sense.-
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tman2nd Goon
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No, that was a mistake.Gorny wrote:In post 210, tman2nd wrote:I've come around on Gorny. I think he's town. A couple reasons. He moved away from the Bulbazoor wagon onto Dunnstral which could doesn't mean too much because PM wasn't in much danger at the time, but he decided to stick on that vote which wasn't gaining any traction even after PM was in danger. Then today, he seemed a bit mixed up on the fact that LUV was killed last night. It could be an act, but It doesn't seem like it to me.
At this point, I'm thinking PM's partner was on the BTD wagon. I know it's not me, so I'm thinking one of Dunnstral or Keychain. Haven't quite decided who I think is more likely.
@Gorny: Why?
Are you asking me who is more likely scum between Dunn and Keychain?
I see that PM didn't make it in time to save himself. What is your point?In post 216, Dunnstral wrote:In post 198, Umlaut wrote:Official Vote Count 1.08 (Final)
PMysterious(3): BTD6_maker, Lil Uzi Vert, Mulch
BTD6_maker(3): Keychain, Dunnstral, tman2nd
Bulbazoor(1): PMysterious
Dunnstral(1): Gorny
Not Voting(1): Bulbazoor
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
Notes- BTD6_maker is V/LA through 8/25.
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tman2nd Goon
- Goon
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- Posts: 464
- Joined: December 16, 2013
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tman2nd
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tman2nd Goon
- Goon
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- Posts: 464
- Joined: December 16, 2013
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tman2nd Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 464
- Joined: December 16, 2013
This is ridiculous. Busing is much worse for scum in this set up because they can lose without ever being lynched. Note how Mulch basically made the PM lynch happen.In post 233, Keychain wrote:Oh god Dunnstral is still only posting in pictures. I'm laughing but I'm also crying.
Very true. If there was, it would be a terribly boring game! That said, I don't really know why you chose to respond this way to my post and why you thought it was relevant at daystart.In post 202, Gorny wrote: There's no one correct way to play Mafia Keychain
In post 209, Mulch wrote:I think I'm a chosen townieIn post 213, Mulch wrote:1) I have good tonwncred position
2) I wasn't nightkilled
3) Agent Jin was very likely one of the people NOT chosen to be not chosen.
VOTE: Mulch
There is only one member of the scum team left. They are going to be very keen on keeping themselves alive. This sounds like you're trying to make yourself unlynchable and it concerns me.
VOTE: Keychain-
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tman2nd Goon
- Goon
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- Posts: 464
- Joined: December 16, 2013
It's not that they're more likely to be endgamed. It's that benefit of busing, being viewed as town, is less effective, because you can lose even if people don't think you're mafia.In post 238, Keychain wrote:
How does this follow?tman2nd wrote: Busing is much worse for scum in this set up because they can lose without ever being lynched.
I know Mulch made the PM lynch happen. But if he can then sell himself as a chosen townie because of things like not getting NKed and not being a likely veto, the bus becomes worthwhile, and Mulch is someone I can see trying to pull it off.
But how does only having one scum mean they're more likely to somehow get endgamed?-
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tman2nd Goon
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