Micro 742: Voltron Mafia Season 1 Game over!

[Joey_]

Can anyone post fast so we can clear teams right now

[Joey_]

im kinda down

[Joey_]

2 votes on derpy, 2 votes on wheme is kinda ballsy on mylo

[Joey_]

Hmmm...

It boils down to Wheme/Joey vs. Derpy.

Who to believe....

Going to give this some thought and a beer or three.

UNVOTE: Whemestar


PEdit.

Im still considering Wheme/joey. But thinking on Derpy too.

what about smocaine?

[Joey_]

Hum what, i was just wondering why you kept omitting his name

[Joey_]

Like you said our three names, wheme/myself/derpy a bunch of time but never mentionned, i assumed there must be a reason

[Joey_]

wheme hasnt even unvoted the clear yet, just lynch him

ill self until you answer my post

VOTE: joey

[Joey_]

Im sleeping in a few hours, and then will be a town loss if you hit wrong at night

[Joey_]

My fucking post about nling

[Joey_]

Scenario 1:

Derpy is town
Gerry is town
Joey is town

2 mafia in Wheme/Gorny/Smocaine

-> Derpy is voting joey, it means that to achieve a scum lynch in Wheme/Gorny/Smocain, you would need the vote of 1 mafia who would be willing to bus here IMO this will never happen, so im expecting to lynch a town today if the lynch passes

Scenario 2

Joey is town
Gerry is town

Derpy is a dirty mefias

-> Derpy is voting Joey. In this scenarios, we dont need mafia to vote mafia to achieve a mefia lynch, all we need is the 4 town votes (Joey's, Gerry's + 2) and we all vote Derpy here.

Scenario 3:

We no lynch

Gerry you just said you still have a vig shot so im going to assume that.
We ask gorny's track claim to either track me or derpy, We can test either the bp/doc or track claim by like, asking to juggle betweens targets or just ask the protective role to be on you, both can work.

Vig should be alive tomorow even if theres a roleblocker but will die if theres en enforcer. If theres a roleblocker, im expecting you to be role blocked since 2 protective on you cant be roleblocked. If your shot doesnt go trought -> we get infos

If Derpy gets killed because he defended you -> its really good for town because theres 1 less moron voting town, this is a scenario i bet mafia will never want to take
If they hit outside, like the tracker -> Still somewhat good since gorny isnt obvtowning, but again i could be on him like the scenario you posted earlier. If im on gorny's, then their only targets would be to kill me -> Its really good for town that i get night killed because then we wont be in autoloss with derpy's deathtunneling me. If they try to hit some randoms others its pretty good too.

All in all

Lynching will never happen on mafia because Derpy is locked onto me, it means that our only decent chance of achieving a lynch on mafia is in the Scenario number 2 where Derpy is mafia and we all vote him. This scenario is unlikely af

Nling Gives a lot of information and has little drawback. We can get infos if they can roleblock the Vig shot, we can get infos by the tracker's check on me or on derpy. Even if theres no kill that night its great for infos. We can test my visists, derpy's and gorny's claim.
Nling also makes possible a scenarios where im being hit which is really good for town, same goes for derpy. Those scenarios are optimal imo

Lynching a mafia today will never work
Nling is better in any scenarios

Prove me wrong

TLDR : The day gameplay is completely deep fucked by derpy's shit play, WE CANNOT IMO WIN VIA DAY PLAY TODAY so we need to rely on the night play aka the vig shot and checks.

Day play : we cannot achieve a scum lynch but if mafia is bussing like morons
Night play : we circumvent derpy's terrible play and enable town to get a lynch (kill) at night.

We should nl

[Joey_]

or say maf has a 1 shot vig too. never know

Not in a micro, also you said yourself you dont think theres an enforcer

VOTE: No Lynch but thanks for replying

[Joey_]

Its not that i dont want wheme, its that i want to nl. We wont lynch maifa if mafia doesnt mafia, 1+1 = 2

[Joey_]

wheme hasnt even unvoted the clear yet, just lynch him

you not getting lynched does it really matter if my vote is on you, will me voting derpy make you happy gerry?

well to be fair, theres no reason to be on him either and theres some unreasonable people on this table looking at the pony

@Batman great read, i appreciate the effort

[Joey_]

Well your disdain to give decent reads on smocaine recently is odd

[Joey_]

Also calling someone trying to convince a dumbass that hes town LAMIST is the most lazy way to shade someone

[Joey_]

You townreadin smocaine over the vig who killed someone gorny?

No I'm not, and it's funny you ask that question when I scum read you and others over Smocaine.

It's almost like you're trying to shift attention away from yourself.

A Wheme vote is looking more like a possibility....

nah it just you said joey/gerry when i don't get how gerry is a possibility

I spelled it out as best I could...

The mod explicitely stated that theres

1: mafia win con
2: town win con

sk is self-aligned so, im assuming gerry is cleared since no one cced his kill

@

In your intros posts, saying that theres a mafia win con and town con, does it confirms theres no self-aligned roles or it doesnt?

[Joey_]

@MOD

[Joey_]

I could probably argue that entire post but it’s not worth it. Joey is still scum.

eheh but im town!!

[Joey_]

Why dont you believe me derpy : (

[Joey_]

because your play suggests you aren't town

I've literally explained this multiple times. Saying "i'm town" over and over again doesn't change anything

but but,, im toooownn >_<'' kawaiii

[Joey_]

so if you want me to believe you are town, who are the 2 scum and why?

2 in wheme/batman/smo

[Joey_]

see the fact that you don't even think I am scum weirds me out. I honestly don't think town has 2 protective roles. You as town should be equally suspicious of that.

Hey, i made a shit long ass post explaining in details why, when, how, what happened etc about this

[Joey_]

I softed pr really early in the game to gerry who completely missed it, i also was really really really uncertain if derpy's bg claim was kinda a soft cc, i had to search a lot of games to see if there were instances of bg + full doc in the same game, there was. Then i checked how both roles would interact.. i also asked derpy about his novice prefixe to be sure 100% if it was like the wikipedia because in the wiki, they said that if both were in the same game the mod would probably tell specifically how it would play out. I didnt see the mod do that because theres some games were Bg transfer the kill to himself and other game where the BG get kills if theres a kill attemps. Others was that "if the target was to die, the bg die insteand" so i was unsure, still am

Maybe lynching derpy is a good idea

Derpy, was your claim 100% legit or did you lie

@Derpy can you confirm that your claim is real

Hm

im at an impass

Derpy, can you be extremely explicit about your role ? like is "junk" your flavor or a suffixe? and can you explain the noavice part like its wrote on your role pm please

Derpy, can you be extremely explicit about your role ? like is "junk" your flavor or a suffixe? and can you explain the noavice part like its wrote on your role pm please

I corrected my typo in the next post. It’s hunk not junk. And go to the wiki if you want to learn what novice means scum fuck

i just wanted to be sure it meant the same thing in that game

Derpy, can you tell me what you tried to achieve with your claim?

He did, he claimed Hunk

Derpy, can you tell me what you tried to achieve with your claim?

Prove I’m not a liar

Can you tell me what you tried to achieve with claiming ? or will i have to ask 10 times

Hoping town would focus and see you are actually caught scum. It didn’t work so now I need to do more. I’m making sure you get lynched today

How is you claiming increases the chance of me being lynched ? No one really fosed you before, its not like you claimed to be townread, you claimed for no reasons whatsoever

BTW i think derpy is mefia from that

VOTE: derpy

@Derpy answers my questions

I think that derpy's moronism is better explained by his alignement than his temperament after all

Derpy, can you tell me what you tried to achieve with your claim?

Prove I’m not a liar

Can you tell me what you tried to achieve with claiming ? or will i have to ask 10 times

Hoping town would focus and see you are actually caught scum. It didn’t work so now I need to do more. I’m making sure you get lynched today

How is you claiming increases the chance of me being lynched ? No one really fosed you before, its not like you claimed to be townread, you claimed for no reasons whatsoever

Figured town would just do the right thing instead of having somebody else claim. Town clearly doesn’t care about lynching scum enough to prevent that so let’s see what happens later. At this point if town doesn’t want to lynch you to me that’s saying they don’t want to win.

1st im not scum. 2nd do you think that you claiming would change their mind? would make them scumread me? why would you claiming changes their reads, how ? How could you even think that you hardclaiming when i wasnt hardpushing you would help you get me roped? lol like i really do not understand this at all.

The only way i can read it is taht you wanted 'town' to pay if they didnt sheep you aka blackmailing town and is playing againts your win con because you are being petty, that or youre mafia

I’m being petty and I’m going to be even more petty come 10

ahahahahah will you self

UNVOTE: will come back later nerds

- me asking fi derpy's claim was real since i wouldnt push on him if he just lied for meme
- Me trying to ask him exactly what king of bg he is to see if it would work with a full doc
- Me trying to read him on some of his scummy actions, to see if hes town or mefias because im still unsure if his bg claim is a cc to me
- Me realizing that he might be, so i push on him and antagonize him on others reasons because i dont want to soft protective CC further
- Me unvoting because at the end of the day im still unsure

Its all there, genuine pr town thought process bois

Derpy, can you tell me what you tried to achieve with your claim?

Prove I’m not a liar

Can you tell me what you tried to achieve with claiming ? or will i have to ask 10 times

Hoping town would focus and see you are actually caught scum. It didn’t work so now I need to do more. I’m making sure you get lynched today

How is you claiming increases the chance of me being lynched ? No one really fosed you before, its not like you claimed to be townread, you claimed for no reasons whatsoever

This post, im asking him why he claimed as BG because i thought he might want to fish reactions from real protectives roles cause he might be enforcer or any scum role that implies theres a protective role IG

[Joey_]

Comon, i did bullet point it in the very post

[Joey_]

I softed pr really early in the game to gerry who completely missed it, i also was really really really uncertain if derpy's bg claim was kinda a soft cc, i had to search a lot of games to see if there were instances of bg + full doc in the same game, there was. Then i checked how both roles would interact.. i also asked derpy about his novice prefixe to be sure 100% if it was like the wikipedia because in the wiki, they said that if both were in the same game the mod would probably tell specifically how it would play out. I didnt see the mod do that because theres some games were Bg transfer the kill to himself and other game where the BG get kills if theres a kill attemps. Others was that "if the target was to die, the bg die insteand" so i was unsure, still am

this part

[Joey_]

- me asking fi derpy's claim was real since i wouldnt push on him if he just lied for meme
- Me trying to ask him exactly what king of bg he is to see if it would work with a full doc
- Me trying to read him on some of his scummy actions, to see if hes town or mefias because im still unsure if his bg claim is a cc to me
- Me realizing that he might be, so i push on him and antagonize him on others reasons because i dont want to soft protective CC further
- Me unvoting because at the end of the day im still unsure

this part refers to the quotes

[Joey_]

that right there makes me doubt you are town.

hm we have different game play, i lie as town all the time. Also, your claimed didnt feel like it was a real one so i assumed it wasnt, i wouldve never claimed my real role in the same manner you claimed yours

[Joey_]

and if you are scum with a doctor fake claim, you could most certainly play the game acting like you are the doc and use that as your ace up the sleeve. It is very easy to ACT like you are a doc by trying to question the bodyguard claim like you were suspicious of it.

that's called acting and playing the part. that doesn't make you town.

the sad fact is your play has been terrible. 1. you played scummy, 2. you insulted and intentionally antagonized me, 3. you thought it was a good idea to lynch a PR and then not bother to protect any of the other claimed PRs

none of this comes off as town. everything looks scum motivated.

If you are town doctor you played your role completely wrong and I refuse to believe that's the case here. It's much more believable you are just scum.

well i did lynch texcat, but gerry also shot zach the obvious town. My scumplay is much more reactive and bullshiting/strongarming than anything that looks like preparing up a fake claim since the start of the game

[Joey_]

The post i showed you was about me bieng suspicious about the bg claim, not me explaining why i think youre town. Im unsure but you outed a considerable amount of good lines and your tone/actions felt consistent and coherent even tho i think youre 2 dense for your health

[Joey_]

An exemple of one of my scumgame was that i refused to hardclaim despite being pushed by all the town, i just refused outright to claim and i slowrolled the day until the deadline were close, then i claimed and they never got around to lynch me, this is my kind of scum play, manipulative and in your face/raeactive. All the time i didnt want to claim i was unsure what claim i could try, funnily enough that game was with the mod RN, we were scumbuddies ; ) and eventually i did win !!! But yeah, i dont cook up shit for days

[Joey_]

so if you want me to believe you are town, who are the 2 scum and why?

2 in wheme/batman/smo

then vote wheme

no, i nl since derpy is voting me

[Joey_]

but you as scum doctor or scum with a doctor fake claim could be playing it like you were actually doctor. so your being suspicious doesn't really gain you any town cred from me.

thanks for the insult at the end. we can just end this conversation now.

no i probably wouldnt have cced a protective role, early soft or not. That would just give you another layer of reasons to push me, even more so if i did that, i wouldve killed you at night, no point letting you alive with tools to push me further

[Joey_]

so if you want me to believe you are town, who are the 2 scum and why?

2 in wheme/batman/smo

then vote wheme

he is waiting for another townie to vote wheme since his buddy is already on the wagon. he will magically give up the idea of NL'ing when that happens.

if you even think that i need to fencesit to lolhammer, you are deeply mistaken

[Joey_]

You are wrong derpy, you really dont understand how i play at all

[Joey_]

I mostly play to win the DAY play, killing you and letting creature alive would give me a lot more power today than i have rn

[Joey_]

I prefer to kill someone annoying me at day with a non-useful pr over someone who townreads me and has useful pr

[Joey_]

And this case didnt even happen because imo bg is much more useful than neihborizer so, i woulda killed you twice over creature

[Joey_]

you are right. If you are actually town here I don't understand how you could play the way you have and still sleep at night.

You said yourself, im lazy. I dont try to soft a role as mafia for weeks, its too boring

[Joey_]

Hm no, why not? I think you dead for me as mefia would be more valuable than creature dead, dont you agree

[Joey_]

Imagine theres a claim d2 that i want to kill, but now derpy the novice bg is active, what do? im fucked, no?

[Joey_]

Hm no? Some roles are prioritary target, you might not want to give that pr a chance to get another check down the road, how can you even disagree with that. Yes at the end of the day mefia still get their town kill but they cant stop the tracker or cop or rolecop or w/e from having a check. In this scenario you dont just want a town kill, you want to kill the investigative pr. Killing the bg d1 whos inactive is much more valuable IMO than neiborizer who cant do shit. Especially with so many unclaimed pr in an assumed role madness, like i dont understand how you cant see that. The kill on creature should completely clears me if you had any idea how i pick my night kill, and i wouldnt let anyone kill creature n1

[Joey_]

I think scum could actually be joey/smo. looking at their posts and how they mention each other it definitely reads like scum buddies.

You should seriously get off my dick, not crossing in mylo
Is scummy too

[Joey_]

@ i told you, we should nl

[Joey_]

@ gerry bote**

[Joey_]

Yay, also im too lazy to explain the basics of mylo and lylos, i did that in my last game as ck if you wanna iso me for a bit of knowledge : )

[Joey_]

Then enable
Himmand fucking nl my man, i can also threaten to vote you if you dont nl : ) i can do that too

[Joey_]

Believe me, from all the hours i spent in that game i sincerely believe that nling here is optimal

[Joey_]

Youre rotght derpy, from your pov its better to lynch today and thats why i think ta fine that you think that way, im no trying to convince you. But from my pov, eith the added information that i posses from my pov, namely that im being hard desthtunneling by someone i think is town and that im town, nling is optimal for the reasons i explained earlier. Time alone will show yu that im actually town when the opportunity presents itself where i will be able to lolhammer your ass and i wont : )

[Joey_]

Im looking forward to that moment to berate you and be even a bigger ass, still playing for our win con despite you : )

[Joey_]

Mafia kill pool at noght is litteraly you or me derpy. Gerry’s shoot pool is wheme and smocain which im pretty 100% theres at the very very least one mefia there. 50% for town versus mafia who has to hit someone being scumread (you) or someone being deathtunneles by town (me) is a pretty fucking good deal

[Joey_]

Another thing my derpy, i dont think youd keep hardpushing me when heavily fosed at mylo even though i appealed to you a thousand time already. I also think that youre a guy or principles and you are probably too proud to use gimmicks like mod kill threaths if you didnt sincerely believe you were on mefia, sadly you arent and i have to deal with you

[Joey_]

I seriously can’t point to a single protown thing you’ve done this entire game.

Smo saying you have obv Towned this day phase is literally the biggest joke cause you’ve pushed the worst possible thing for town to do today.

On top of that you are partly responsible for multiple unnecessary role claims,helping lynch a powerful town Pr, and not protecting any of the other claimed PRs and instead protected somebody who would probably be in my scum pile if he wasn’t the vig.

Like if you are town I don’t think ive ever seen a worst player in my 10+ years at mafia. And I used to play on epic mafia.

Nice! I always knew i was a special one. Do you think whats the worst ? Is that even tho you think im a bad player, in still currently carrying this town

[Joey_]

I disagree with you, i want to force mefia to make kills they dont want to make

[Joey_]

Nling doesnt precent vig dude

[Joey_]

Im looking forward to that moment to berate you and be even a bigger ass, still playing for our win con despite you : )

Yes you are playing for a scum win con. Definitely not a town one. Even if you are somehow town nothing you have done has helped town

Ehhh thats like ehh.. your opinion man

[Joey_]

Im pretty sure refusing to reconsider your reads is on the top of the liat about anti town things

[Joey_]

Imo if we end up lynching anyone its not going to be on scum like i said, because you refuse to vote outaide me, you are the reason why town should nl for a chance

[Joey_]

You really sont get how mich you are affecting the game in mylo

[Joey_]

I have to make plays just to try to get you killed by mafia or killed myself so town has a chance : )

[Joey_]

Lol derpy, you realize that i wont be lynched today, mefias is prob afraid to poke me because id be on their case, now im just distracted by you and its fine for mefias. I wont get lynched and i wont let you get lynched either, i will force nl if i can and gerry wont lynch either of us. Mafia wont get lynched in forny/smocain/wheme ever in this town dynamics, ever

[Joey_]

I disagree with you, i want to force mefia to make kills they dont want to make

Then you disagree with math.

Statistically speaking NL gives town the worst chance of winning.

People playing mafia as a star game dont understand nothing about the game and suck honestly

[Joey_]

You are auch an hindrance to town, not only do they dont kill you when you are the most logical night kill, they try to push an angle to get you lynched today and its me who have to keep that from happening even tho you refuse to unvote me : )

[Joey_]

Nling doesnt precent vig dude

It prevents him from making an informed decision.

There is no consensus as to who scum is.

If he shoots wrong we lose.

If we lynch wrong, the pool of potential scum is narrowed.

Let’s say in his mind he has scum narrowed to 4 people. We NL he has a 50% chance of hitting scum.

Now let’s say we lynch one of those 4 and they flip town. We have scum narrowed down to 3 people. That’s a 66% chance of hitting scum.

Math says NL is statistically a bad idea.

If you were town you would have figured this out a long time ago

You are correct but that only work if town isnt locked onto town. The fact that im town mean that i know for a fact lynching today wont be auccessful, you refuse to unlock your vote on town, you are keeping town from having a majority do you fet it?

[Joey_]

Im pretty sure refusing to reconsider your reads is on the top of the liat about anti town things

I didn’t refuse actually. I tried to have a conversation with you and hear you out. You insulted me again and that’s when I knew I can’t take you seriously. You didn’t want to actually try and change my mind. You need town to NL so you increase your odds of winning.

Are you fucking shitting me dude? I probably made 400 post sirectly to you to try to change your mind cause i think your town, fucking wheight your words because i wont accept you not acknowledge my effort to save this

[Joey_]

Lol derpy, you realize that i wont be lynched today, mefias is prob afraid to poke me because id be on their case, now im just distracted by you and its fine for mefias. I wont get lynched and i wont let you get lynched either, i will force nl if i can and gerry wont lynch either of us. Mafia wont get lynched in forny/smocain/wheme ever in this town dynamics, ever

Yes I realize that but I’ll vote anyone to prevent a NL. So your plan of stalling and town ultimately NL won’t work.

Ok so you prefer to vote outside me over forcing nl, why not try to get someone you agree that is mefia, is outside me and w/o the deadline stall that makes lynch hard to be sucessful. All i ask is that you cooperate with me and gerry bote and if thats the case, then lynching would be the best option

[Joey_]

You are correct but that only work if town isnt locked onto town. The fact that im town mean that i know for a fact lynching today wont be auccessful, you refuse to unlock your vote on town, you are keeping town from having a majority do you fet it?

Even if we lynch town, towns win chances go up. Did you really not read that?

In no way does a NL help tow out here.

I dont really want to lynch town but gerry wont lynch me and if you think im mafia doc then that means i could stop the shot

[Joey_]

@gerry. Since nobody wants to lynch obv scum. Will you shoot joey if wheme flips town?

He wont

[Joey_]

Is there any amount of content that i can possibly produce to make you change your mind, i cant believe someone so deep in his ass

[Joey_]

Its almost insulting

[Joey_]

Lolol

[Joey_]

Ill lynch you if i have to buddy

[Joey_]

Ill lynch you if i have to buddy

Do it pussy

Lol im carrying you and you dont even know it

[Joey_]

Derpy you dont get to decides whats a scumclaim or not. My vote goes to No Lynch, i think hes mefias

[Joey_]

Here we go again, i told you. If youre town its better to nl and let the vig yolo a mafia

[Joey_]

I dont beed stats to win or decides whats the best course of action : ) just losers do that

[Joey_]

Lol scumbol failed once this game

[Joey_]

If youre down to vote outside theres no need to nl : )

[Joey_]

Gerry will use your votr at day to get wheme lynched then shoot his 2nd fos, he wont follow you u know

[Joey_]

@mod

What happens if both doc and bg are on the targeted kill? What happen if doc is on bg and bg is on the target kill?

[Joey_]

To be honest i was pretty busy at the time it was the night phase, i just picked gerry at a whim and planned to maybe go back on my choice but never went around to

[Joey_]

@Derpy you wanna lynch wheme ? ill vote with you

[Joey_]

lol on a whim like i knew it probably wasnt the best decision but i didnt expect creature to be killed

[Joey_]

if derpy unvote me it increases your winning chance

[Joey_]

there cant be 2 mafs in joey/derpy/smocaine rn

Im kinda down to get wheme if derpy move

[Joey_]

who gives a shit about what derpy does, holy shit. just vote and someone else will hammer eventually

thats asking to lynch town

[Joey_]

VOTE: wheme

[Joey_]

Thats L-1

[Joey_]

If this is mafia, please shoot smocain @ bote

[Joey_]

Actually smocaine is the best 2nd shot regardless

[Joey_]

Holy crap gerry, i fucking was correct on every single of my reads all game but tex's

[Joey_]

I also knew for a fact nling was better

[Joey_]

good job scum. town did you a solid by lynching tex day 1 and after that town never had a chance. Stupid doctor and vig choosing wrong targets.

are you fucking serious lmao, you fucking made that happen

[Joey_]

Derpy, you being stubborn didnt help at all. i was only 1 shot vig btw

Then you shouldve push the nl, seriously that was borderline gt because i assumed town had another shot, i would never lynched wheme if i knew that

[Joey_]

zach/joey/wheme actually HURT town.

Ill give you a tip : when everyones is at fault all the time means that you are probably the one at fault

[Joey_]

it may not have helped but I didn't actually hurt town. i did not lynch a town PR and I tried to prevent it and I tried to lynch a player who basically fucked his role up completely.

zach/joey/wheme actually HURT town.

@joey, even with gerry being 1 shot NL would not be any better. NL would have literally not helped town out one bit. One of you/gerry/I would be dead and town would still have no clue who to lynch. Wheme probably would have gotten lynched.


I can say that I will never play with Joey or his alt of Cloud ever again, and probably won't play with zach either.

Killing you or myself wouldve helped town

[Joey_]

good job scum. town did you a solid by lynching tex day 1 and after that town never had a chance. Stupid doctor and vig choosing wrong targets.

are you fucking serious lmao, you fucking made that happen

dude the game is over, go take your trolling elsewhere.

i was completely against his lynch and tried to stop it. I did not contribute to his lynch at all.

im saying you tanked town play so fucking hard even tho you werent for tex's lynch

[Joey_]

You didnt try shit derpy, you werent there at the deadline. You never promoted a healthy CW, you never engaged anyone in the last 40h fucking hours, you never explained you townread on texcat, You did nothing to prevent the tex lynch but only by not voting him

[Joey_]

Yea that tunnel was literraly the dumbest shit i have ever seen

[Joey_]

That guy fosed me for townreading him, fosed me for not fosing him for claiming a protective role. Sorry i can actually read people @derpy

[Joey_]

Nling was the best play so we could regain a town vote - your vote - that was locked on town.

[Joey_]

Losing a townie was better here considering we didnt have a vig, but we didnt have this information.

Losing a townie was better here having a vig or not considering that i was heavily scumread by town, a town alive that is heavily scumread by town hinder town much more than 1 less townie