Micro 745: Beyond Death [Endgame]
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CheekyTeeky SheSurvivorShe
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CheekyTeeky SheSurvivorShe
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CheekyTeeky SheSurvivor
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CheekyTeeky SheSurvivorShe
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Oh, good to learn from your mistakesIn post 14, Hopkirk wrote:
The (sarcastic) implication is that town can't make errors.In post 11, CheekyTeeky wrote:Hopkirk are you implying that scum don't make errors or are you being sarcastic? Also, NSG is female.
People have accused me before of mixing 'scum' and 'town making mistakes' up too much.
I wondered if he missed that rc is replacing out. We should see how long he sits on it for lol.In post 15, Micc wrote:Why aren't yall helping to wagon the guy who planted his RVS vote on a player who is replacing out and then disappeared from the thread?-
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CheekyTeeky SheSurvivorShe
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CheekyTeeky SheSurvivorShe
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Cool, everyone has checked in. I disagree with BTD6 (did you really make that game?), I think Cabd not voting is NAI, based on one game I've played with him. In the game he was town, but we see he is aware that he's played with me from his newbie comment earlier ITT. Cabd, being a meta genius, probably knows to not RVS vote again to have me assume a town read on him. So, the potential self-awareness of his opening move nullifies me reading him as a town lean, based on that one point alone. I feel there are other points that raise my suspicion on Cabd. First off he enters without providing any indication of early reads, when there's only one page to go off, so it wouldn't be hard to skim and then enter announcing any thoughts to help progress the game. Second, his "loaded gun" response to being questionned about not RVS voting, feels dramatic and out of place, like the emphasis is on being reasonable about voting, but we're not out of the RVS woods yet. Third, he comments on his own replacement slot by saying that rc doesn't like town, thats probably why he replaced, but that the point is also null. I'm not sure what the point of this comment is, if not to subtly put in our minds that his slot is town.
Overall I'd say I have an early scum lean on Cabd.
VOTE: Cabd-
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CheekyTeeky SheSurvivorShe
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How can you judge the set-up to be not too complex but also not understand the set-up?In post 50, Cabd wrote:The setup isn't anything too complex, I will note we will NOT get flips night one; and no-lynching in this setup is almost always the wrong move.
The two "self-docs" here should be treated somewhat like you would bulletproofs in the matrix 6 setup, with the note that them claiming early like the matrix 6 BP strat is a bad idea.-
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CheekyTeeky SheSurvivorShe
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Ok fair. I'll move my vote when something else pings me.
I do agree that not lynching is the wrong move, because even if we lynch wrong we get the players voice as conf. town during the next day phases. It might be a good strat to sort experienced/high contributing players first, and if there is enough consensus that the player is likely scum, they would be an ideal first lynch.-
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CheekyTeeky SheSurvivorShe
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Well that's a skewed interpretation if ever I saw one. He's answered at least 3 points, I use my vote as a tool to gain insight rather than as an accusation. Saying I'm abandoning my wagon is pretty strong, given I haven't even moved my vote yet. And, it's pretty weird that this half-assed push on me about intending to seek information elsewhere is the only part of the content I've provided that you care to comment on. Are you feeling threatened by Cabd? Why do you think town cares about how their vote changing looks to town?In post 64, Sobolev Space wrote:cheeky why did you abandon your push on cabd when he responded to at most one of the three points you raised against him?
VOTE: Sobo-
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CheekyTeeky SheSurvivorShe
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Post 67 is more specific. I thought you meant overall, as I have noticed 3 comments from him on his play. I did notice that he didn't answer certain points, but that give me info. If I tunneled someone everytime a question went unanswered I'd probably get nowhere fast. I think I need to put it out there that I change track very quick, I play unpredictably and do a lot of OMGUS type play. I do analyse what is said and what is not said. For example when you did not answer the questions I posed to you, I assumed you are more likely town than scum for doing so, but that is just one point. Your stances feel more townie than I initially thought, but I'm happy where my vote is for now.-
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Ok this is kinda overwhelming. I'm going to go with D. I believed the points and believed that I have some info to go off and am looking for info elsewhere. I thought I said that already.In post 72, Sobolev Space wrote:okay but you still didn't really answer my question which wasdid you still believe those two unanswered points were valid when you made 63?Like i'm asking is it the case that:
a) you didn't believe those points were valid when making 59 and thus also didn't believe them when making 63 even though nobody else discussed them;
b) you did believe them when making 59 but changed your mind before making 63 for some reason; or
c) you did believe them when making 59 and still believed them when making 63 but other things cabd did overrode your otherwise valid reasons to scumread him?
if its c - which i suspect it is - what did cabd do in his responses to make you tr him? was it solely the fact that he didn't rebut your case point by point?-
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CheekyTeeky SheSurvivorShe
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Sorry, abrasive is my playstyle :/In post 75, Sobolev Space wrote:still think 66 was unnecessarily abrasive but we can table this discussion for now-
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I started off with the premise that Cabd not RVSing is NAI futher to BTD's town read of this point, that's why I felt the need to elaborate on a null point. I prefaced the whole post with "I disagree with BTD blah blah blah" and outlined my points on cabd in contrast to BTD. I think you're fishing for something that isn't there with my push on Cabd and that you're intentionally ignoring my strat spec post, where I indirectly point out why my first push is Cabd.In post 83, northsidegal wrote:i know cheeky's conclusion here was that it's null, but why even mention all this? this is what i mean when i say artificial.
What is it that you think you know about my town playstyle in RVS, that you're not seeing here? I'd also like to make the point that I don't have enough meta for there to be consistency in my play yet, but that's my subjective opinion. I don't like that you've spent the time to make me your biggest announced scum lean, yet you don't vote me. Instead you place another RVS vote on someone...why?-
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Lol @ this.In post 87, Cabd wrote:I mean if Cheeky starts channeling Awoo I'l gladly string her up but nah.-
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Here NSG.In post 63, CheekyTeeky wrote:It might be a good strat to sort experienced/high contributing players first, and if there is enough consensus that the player is likely scum, they would be an ideal first lynch.
Ok so it feels forced, but breaking out of RVS requires discussion (not just complaining about it eh Micc), I bring up thoughts and opinions to stimulate such and make reads based on the points. Sometimes the points are useless or feel forced because I have almost nothing to work wot to try and make something. I don't believe my itention looked like a way to create a Cabd wagon, particularly when I announced the intention to move my vote after some back and forth. And also after the discussion with sobo where I said I use my vote to get info rather than as an accusation at this stage... so I don't know why everyone is getting so precious about Cabd?-
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CheekyTeeky SheSurvivorShe
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In post 96, Micc wrote:
Really tho. what's up with this vote northsidegal?In post 84, northsidegal wrote:rude!! we're still sort of in rvs so i don't feel bad about this!VOTE: micc
You're clearly analyzing the game at this point and thus not in RVS anymore...but I was being rude so I get a vote...and its ok because RVS?
How would you interpret this as AI micc? Like what would make this townie and scummy in your opinion?-
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CheekyTeeky SheSurvivorShe
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That's very "Switzerland" of you lol. I think your logic is bad though. You can have expectations prior to receiving a response, and get a better read by digging asking questions. I assume that you already have a read on me then, since you're not digging and asking me questions?In post 99, Micc wrote:uhh neutral I guess. If I felt like I already had a read off of it I wouldn't be digging into it by asking questions
I really want Hop to answer my question before I move my vote but FoS: Micc.-
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CheekyTeeky SheSurvivorShe
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I think you may have unvoted scum, to vote scum.In post 107, Kawso wrote:UNVOTE: Hopkirk
VOTE: north
I'm afraid the random vote - reaction test - serious vote just seems scrambling almost-
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CheekyTeeky SheSurvivorShe
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You don't? Everyone is active so far, I likey.
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Some players need a push to answer I've found. Also a vote can make a question feel more loaded to scum. I wanted to test a Hopkirk/micc possibility with the question. I don't know what to do with your response just yet. You were an initial scum lean.In post 112, Hopkirk wrote:Why would you expect me to not answer if you removed the vote, and why are you treating the question of 'what do you think of x player (that you don't explicitly scumread)' as so significant?-
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Readlist incoming.In post 112, Hopkirk wrote:Given you've asked me for my thoughts on Micc when I hadn't mentioned him yet, (and given, though slightly less so, that you haven't really mentioned me outside there) I find it surprising you didn't mention why you're scumleaning on me. I'd like to hear your thoughts there.-
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CheekyTeeky SheSurvivorShe
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You were very awkward breaking out of RVS. Your RVS vote on micc was straight up bad, don't care if it was a reaction test. You presented a scum interpretation of my Cabd push, but denied you thought I was scummy. Being pro-town != not scum. You seem to be playing it safe, you tried to stick your neck out with me but quickly withdrew when you saw your points were defeated by logic. I'd have to assume that you hadn't read the entire thread before your push on me, for the illogical arguments to make sense. I don't believe that to be true as I've assumed an attentive, thoughtul player image of you.In post 114, northsidegal wrote:
what about me this game seems to you to show an anti-town motivation or a playstyle difference that would indicate i'm scum?In post 108, CheekyTeeky wrote:
I think you may have unvoted scum, to vote scum.In post 107, Kawso wrote:UNVOTE: Hopkirk
VOTE: north
I'm afraid the random vote - reaction test - serious vote just seems scrambling almost
I do want to vote you but I don't like how quickly your wagon is building up so I'll reassess shortly.-
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Noted, please be patient, I like to use my PC for my works of art. Don't hold your breathIn post 152, Sobolev Space wrote:
wait cheeky i'm still interested in seeing thisIn post 139, CheekyTeeky wrote:
Readlist incoming.In post 112, Hopkirk wrote:Given you've asked me for my thoughts on Micc when I hadn't mentioned him yet, (and given, though slightly less so, that you haven't really mentioned me outside there) I find it surprising you didn't mention why you're scumleaning on me. I'd like to hear your thoughts there.-
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CheekyTeeky SheSurvivorShe
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Still at my mums, no pc, so after digging through ISO's this is briefly where I'm at:
Chip Butty, Hopkirk, Sobolev Space
northsidegal
Micc
Kawso, BTD6_maker
Cabd
I have some interesting points on Cabd, including what I think is a scum slip, which I will go into at some stage, a strange feeling about micc and NSG but I think I'll have to PoE these slots when I get more from my null reads, I'll say null town on them for now.-
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CheekyTeeky SheSurvivorShe
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Can anyone else see it here? I'm being vague intentionally.In post 50, Cabd wrote:The setup isn't anything too complex, I will note we will NOT get flips night one; and no-lynching in this setup is almost always the wrong move.
The two "self-docs" here should be treated somewhat like you would bulletproofs in the matrix 6 setup, with the note that them claiming early like the matrix 6 BP strat is a bad idea.-
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CheekyTeeky SheSurvivorShe
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As town I would have expected you to have a different reaction. I'll confess I don't base anything on meta so there is a chance I'm wrong, which you'll get to refute when I point it out what it is I see. Hint: it's not the setup error.In post 177, Cabd wrote:I was right lel.-
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CheekyTeeky SheSurvivorShe
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Does it only make sense in the context of your overall entrance?In post 179, Cabd wrote:I know it's not the setup error~
There's another good reason to make the slip you think is a slip.-
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CheekyTeeky SheSurvivorShe
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In post 181, Cabd wrote:Are we playing mafia, or lateral thinking puzzles?
Lol! Sorry I'm trying to maximise on the potential of this push so that it will provide reads on others' reactions as well as on yours.In post 182, Cabd wrote:BY all means though, proceed, senator.-
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Ok so the bold is what pings me. We know, and Cabd has admitted, that he rushed in and didn't read the setup. If he were vanilla town he would have received the role PM which gives us the "lingering spirit" ability. He would not know that scum cannot whisper and kill the same night if he did not receive the scum role PM. His mistake with the two-self docs initially alerted me to the fact he hadn't read the set-up, so one can assume that he's only read his role PM and that is the information he's basing this post on.In post 50, Cabd wrote:The setup isn't anything too complex,I will note we will NOT get flips night one;and no-lynching in this setup is almost always the wrong move.
The two "self-docs" here should be treated somewhat like you would bulletproofs in the matrix 6 setup, with the note that them claiming early like the matrix 6 BP strat is a bad idea.
Therefore I believe Cabd is scum.-
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CheekyTeeky SheSurvivorShe
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No his unanswered questions still ping me along with his general lack of sorting. I do think Cabd's playstyle probably pings me more than it should were I familiar with his play.In post 200, Sobolev Space wrote:is this the sole reason you're scumreading cabd, cheeky?-
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CheekyTeeky SheSurvivorShe
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Yeah that was his only logical out. I also didn't like that it seemed like he knew he scummed slipped, when I didn't specify what I saw. I'd expect town to act like there's no possible scum slip because they're confirmation biased to their alignment.In post 204, Sobolev Space wrote:my theory was that given this post:
cabd had at least seen the setup or had some familiarity with it from before (it won some open setup contest in 2015 iirc?) and remembered the nk mechanics for scum but not the exact distribution of town prs - which makes sense because the mechanics are much more unique.In post 128, Cabd wrote:I realize the creator of this setup is here, but my itch to try and break setups will never truly go away.-
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I do :/In post 208, Cabd wrote:You expect lots of things.-
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I wanted to make sure you weren't his buddy or at least to get a grip on the relationship. The fact you couldn't see anything made sense and your tone was genuine curiosity rather than discrediting. It reinforced my town read.In post 210, Sobolev Space wrote:interested in seeing where this is going to go but unfortunately i have to log off for the night to finish this econ pset. hoping to see some answers/content from cabd when i get back tomorrow
final question:
cheeky what were you hoping to glean from my answer? why just me?In post 197, CheekyTeeky wrote:Ok I'm here I only really wanted Sobolev to answer, so I'll proceed.-
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CheekyTeeky SheSurvivorShe
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CheekyTeeky SheSurvivor
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CheekyTeeky SheSurvivorShe
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CheekyTeeky SheSurvivor
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CheekyTeeky SheSurvivorShe
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Yep. Why is she pointing out weird stuff but hesitant to make a proper stand/push? It feels very scummy to me. I might change my mind if she produces evidence of reads, but I'm pretty sure she's saying stuff just to say stuff.In post 233, Cabd wrote:I mean yeah NSG's approach to this game has been very weird; but can somebody explain why it's SCUM-weird?-
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CheekyTeeky SheSurvivorShe
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You and her were hovering above the null reads, her last post raised my suspicion.In post 165, CheekyTeeky wrote:a strange feeling about micc and NSG but I think I'll have to PoE these slots when I get more from my null reads,-
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I planned on explaning my read progression in the readslist but couldn't be bothered while I was out. I was biased on you from entry and your posts seemed too surface level, but when I townread Sobolev, and he town read you, I went back through your ISO more objectively and saw there was little reason to see you as scum apart from my initial gut feel.In post 241, Hopkirk wrote:I asked for one read explination that you should have had already. This is a clear dodge.-
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CheekyTeeky SheSurvivor
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I don't agree with this. Scum are more likely to pick up on anything to build a case/cast shade with. I noticed micc's overstatement but gave that room to see where it would go. I thought NSG jumping in prematurely cut off the push as micc complained about earlier. The interaction feels like SvT, I'm just not 100% on which one is S yet although I'm leaning towards NSG.In post 248, Chip Butty wrote:I liked this, because it shows [NSG] is reading carefully, and i think scum would have let Micc's misreading slide through.-
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I thought it was a push. He's a suspect because of his LAMIST play style including this. Whatever alignment he is I think I can safely say NSG is not.In post 254, Chip Butty wrote:CT, what did you make of Micc's 'overstatement'? Does it look like a plausibly genuine misreading to you?
Micc do you have some town games I could look at please?-
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CheekyTeeky SheSurvivorShe
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In post 228, CheekyTeeky wrote:NSG do you have a readslist?-
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CheekyTeeky SheSurvivorShe
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I didn't see anything specific you wanted me to respond to, and understood that you were just providing your perspective. You said that I admitted that my case was forced, which I didn't. I said OK it seems forced to summarise your key point in the previous post. I then went on to explain why it could possibly seem forced to others looking in, during the breaking out of RVS stage. I think it would make sense for scum to point out strange things without really scumhunting. I don't see you scum hunting. I just see a 180 on your RVS stance of voting people to get reads to now just pointing out things that seem strange...but not scummy...and you can't even form an opinion on each player when everyone has provided content. How hard is it to rank players from scummy to least scummy? It's probably difficult for you because you're not actually scum hunting or coming up with helpful lines of enquiry against others. Pushes help town gather info. Providing a wishy washy opinion (x seems strange) of others scum hunting does not help us sort slots imo.In post 268, northsidegal wrote:cheeky never responded to 144.-
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CheekyTeeky SheSurvivorShe
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Your interactions around your push on me made me wonder about the nature of your relationship. I also wanted you because you seem the most logical/objective this far, so you'd be able to tell me if what I was seeing was warranted suspicion or not. The second question is disappointing. Surely you don't believe scum always act obviously scummy?In post 275, Sobolev Space wrote:why were you interested specifically in a me/cabd team? if you townread me wouldn't you think its more likely that cabd's partnered with someone else?-
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CheekyTeeky SheSurvivorShe
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But what does this have to do with the post you referenced? What am I missing here? In the post you referenced micc concedes that NSG might be town. He hasn't provided any lists? I find it suspicious that you chose this quote when a couple of quotes later he says he is still suspicious of NSG. It seems like you're choosing a quote that puts micc's suspicion of NSG in a better light and which has nothing to do with me...so you quote that then ask how micc feels about me.In post 281, Hopkirk wrote:Because he didn't put you in the suspicious section, and I find you suspicious, so want to know why.
Why are you suspicious of me? Don't make the weak mistake of saying I'm suspicious with nothing to back it up, while providing a null leaning case of NSG...-
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CheekyTeeky SheSurvivorShe
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Are you expecting me to respond to this? It's not clear if you're asking me something here.In post 295, Sobolev Space wrote:
i included the second part to highlight that i wanted to know what special relationship you thought i had with cabd. like unless i was thought specific interactions were worth investigating a priori i'd be more interested in looking for partner relationships between my scumreads than my townreads was the argument i was makingIn post 290, CheekyTeeky wrote:
Your interactions around your push on me made me wonder about the nature of your relationship. I also wanted you because you seem the most logical/objective this far, so you'd be able to tell me if what I was seeing was warranted suspicion or not. The second question is disappointing. Surely you don't believe scum always act obviously scummy?In post 275, Sobolev Space wrote:why were you interested specifically in a me/cabd team? if you townread me wouldn't you think its more likely that cabd's partnered with someone else?-
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Ok just making sure lol.In post 297, Sobolev Space wrote:no i was just clarifying why i included that part-
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In post 256, Chip Butty wrote:NSG cont.
83 and 88 defends Cabd against CT. Seems thoughtful and reading carefully.
The vote on Micc at 84 is...not good.In post 257, Chip Butty wrote:More later...
Chip, from this I cannot understand your stance on NSG. You've pointed out posts that you think are townie and a post that you think not good. Was the "More later..." in reference to NSG or just a promise of more content later?
Sobolev, can you please expand on this? What post(s) made him drop from you liking him to falling back to null and why?In post 261, Sobolev Space wrote:hopkirk is back to null for now-
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Oh I see what you mean now.In post 344, Hopkirk wrote:
Because his reads list was in that post. I was asking purely because you were not on the reads list in that post.In post 291, CheekyTeeky wrote:
But what does this have to do with the post you referenced? What am I missing here? In the post you referenced micc concedes that NSG might be town. He hasn't provided any lists? I find it suspicious that you chose this quote when a couple of quotes later he says he is still suspicious of NSG. It seems like you're choosing a quote that puts micc's suspicion of NSG in a better light and which has nothing to do with me...so you quote that then ask how micc feels about me.In post 281, Hopkirk wrote:Because he didn't put you in the suspicious section, and I find you suspicious, so want to know why.
Why are you suspicious of me? Don't make the weak mistake of saying I'm suspicious with nothing to back it up, while providing a null leaning case of NSG...
I'm suspicious of you based on what I've mentioned already- your reads progression is confusing, and the odd lack of jutifying your read on my by saying you'd do a reads list instead, when that wasn't what had been requested.
Why is my case null leaning? If you think I'm town (based on last reads list), then why not try and persuade me I'm wrong to prevent a TvT?
If you're confused about my reads progression that's your own problem, you should be asking me questions if it's killing you to know. I've already suggested my play is not linear. Anyway confusion on my points is NAI. I've answered your question about my read progression of you and why I didn't do it immediately when requested, so you can drop that line of enquiry or start a new line.
Your case on NSG was waffling on but never came to a conclusion. You need to tell her why you're leaning one way or the other on her and put your vote where your mouth is. The point is that you had time to "analyse" her actions in depth without an indication of your read, but then you just throw out your suspicious read on me without justification. Why?-
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CheekyTeeky SheSurvivorShe
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