Micro 772: Jester Nightless

Micro Games (9 players or fewer). Signups Here
Mathdino
Survivor
 
User avatar
Joined: February 24, 2013
Location: Right Behind You
Pronoun: He

Post Post #425  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:17 am

Interesting play. Setting yourself up as lynchbait and, if you're scum, trying to "conftown" yourself.

The problem for you from a town perspective is that by saying "LYNCH WHOMEVER HAMMERS ME", you've basically nulled/WIFOM'd that vote analysis because scum now has to wait for town to hammer you. But wait, that means only town would hammer you, so it's in scum's best interest to hammer you. But wait...

You see where I'm going. You've clearly thought this out and on most other sites I can see that being a great scumplay. But as it is, I can't in good conscience NOT vote a self-voter, and the fact that you're specifically framing it as "lynch whomever votes me" instead of "I'll die, just get Mathdino tomorrow" really strikes me as more scum motivated than town motivated. Because if it's coming from town, you're not gonna get anything out of this, and I feel like you'd have realised that.

You cool too tho. I agree on defusing the page-long 1v1 but it's cool if you respond to the above new accusation. Your call.

eth0s
Mafia Scum
 
User avatar
Joined: December 03, 2017
Location: Indiana
Pronoun: He

Post Post #426  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:36 am

I'm not saying to lynch whoever hammers me, though. This is an alternative to potentially lynching another townie, then being left with 3 people who all voted for said townie. This allows for a little bit more guided votes in lylo, I think. If you read my post thoroughly, you will see that I have acknowledged that scum could hammer me and get away with it. I'm not looking to be conftown. Conftown me after I die. What I'm looking for is any last little bit of scum slip. Any piece of knowledge that the 2 remaining can use without clogging everyone's head with 10 pages of back and forth arguing. Let's let everyone think for themselves.

In post 425, Mathdino wrote:But as it is, I can't in good conscience NOT vote a self-voter,


If I'm right about you, why even say this? If your purpose was to score townpoints with me (unlikely) then you succeeded. But if I were any townie but me, I would be wondering why you would bother pointing out that you feel you're making the right choice, when your vote was already there beforehand... It's not like I voted myself to get things started. I already had pressure. Now it kind of sounds like you are scared of what people might think of you after my flip, but you're in a position where you can't move your vote off of me without seeming a little suspicious. After all, why would a townie remove his vote after his target votes himself? :idea:

eth0s
Mafia Scum
 
User avatar
Joined: December 03, 2017
Location: Indiana
Pronoun: He

Post Post #427  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:39 am

If I'm not dead by the time I wake up in real-life tomorrow, I might reconsider my actions. But as of right now I don't see anything that shouts scum so loud that I just have to vote it. Surely if this fails, and maybe even if it succeeds, I will be called a game thrower. And maybe this will make me one, who knows. But I'm not going to let my fear of that keep me from doing what seems right in this moment.

Mathdino
Survivor
 
User avatar
Joined: February 24, 2013
Location: Right Behind You
Pronoun: He

Post Post #428  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:50 am

1. ok. This does unfortunately null a lot of the coming behaviour from Jay and SS.

2. Kinda trying to figure out what you're saying here.

You're reading genuine, so part of me wants to reevaluate. But letting you live sets the precedent that anti-town moves can be used to conf-town oneself. That's how N_M-scum won in the game where we didn't lynch him, and that's a major reason I wanted to immediately policy him when I figured he wasn't jester. Leaving him alive on the basis that scum wouldn't do that would be significantly more dangerous.

But it seems like you're asking me why I said that, and also why I said that if I'm scum? I said that just as a "my vote stands". And indicating to you that self-voting isn't a good scumplay on this site because I think most people have that "eugh, self-voting" reaction. Hell, in one game, some townie that I was initially townreading went and hammered himself out of frustration. Due to mod error, it wasn't counted as a hammer, so I went in there and rehammered him just in case, partially on principle.

So I think what you're suggesting is that scum-me wants to save face after you theoretically flip town, and so I'm distancing myself from my own vote while keeping my vote on you to look like a townie?

I'm having trouble understanding what you think my trajectory here is and how that makes sense for scum-me tbh. If you're actually town, I think you might be in confbias mode, where every post I make has some kind of scum motivation in it that you can pick apart. So watch out for that in general I guess.

But tbh the last time I was tunneled in this way they flipped scum so this convo might all be for naught. If you flip scum, it's gonna be an interesting conversation postgame, because I do wanna talk about the strategy you're using rn.

eth0s
Mafia Scum
 
User avatar
Joined: December 03, 2017
Location: Indiana
Pronoun: He

Post Post #429  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:27 am

God dammit Dino. You're either genius scum or a very genuine townie. Now I need to think this whole thing over. One step forward and two steps back, I guess. If you're scum I'm going to be so fucking mad lmao. Yes, I did exaggerate my scum-read on you to gauge your response. And if you're wondering, yes, part of the reason I self-voted was a reaction test. But if you're scum, you gave me nothing to work with and so here I am falling back on reads that I had pages ago. I thought about what you said with confbias so I am going to let off of this tunnel for now. Much gratitude to town!dino and a huge fuck you to scum!dino.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Something_Smart

spectrum:
eth0s
jay
dino
S_S

HOLY FUCK. JAY ISN'T MAFIA. JAY CAN'T BE MAFIA. How the fuck did I just realize this. Sadly jay is probably scumreading me even harder than dino is but I think I just cracked this thing. Jay spearheaded the not_maf lynch... why in the fuck would you do that if he was your partner? You don't second-vote your teammate d1 on a policy lynch. Not even in this setup would you do something that ridiculous. Sure there is the WIFOM aspect, but you really think that scum's first move would be to kill one of their own under no pressure? Sure, Not_Maf probably wasn't playing his win condition, and likely wanted to see a jester victory, but still. town!jay makes town!dino so very fucking likely that the subtle hints that S_S has been dropping all game just turned into hard evidence.

In post 74, Not_Mafia wrote:Okay so you're not scumhunting, cool got it. Ethos and Mathdino, you're welcome town, lynch me out of gratitude?


I know for damn sure he wasn't bussing me. Highly doubting that he was bussing you, dino. Neither of us were jester clearly. If I'm right and troll!Not_Maf wanted to see a jester win, he would have been calling out his top jester reads right there. 99% sure he was excluding his teammate. He was definitely trolling, but I believe he had a plan. And the funniest outcome that would get the best reactions would probably be not_maf being able to claim that he helped jester win.

Something_Smart
Best Mechanic
 
User avatar
Joined: November 17, 2015
Location: Rochester Institute of Technology
Pronoun: He

Post Post #430  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:11 am

Math. Explain your read progression on me.
You townread me day 1, then you scumread me day 2, then you jester-read me day 3, and now you townread me again. Why?

JaydragonKing
Mafia Scum
 
User avatar
Joined: November 21, 2017
Location: 'Murica. Heck yeah.

Post Post #431  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:19 am

Wait a fucking second I just woke up, and I don't know if I'm caught up but are we legit on day 4 or 5? Holy shit I'm confused.

JaydragonKing
Mafia Scum
 
User avatar
Joined: November 21, 2017
Location: 'Murica. Heck yeah.

Post Post #432  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:23 am

Yeah we're on day 5 and you guys lynched Sheep while I was gone. You crazy mofos. The Moderator literally can't keep up with us.

Gotta Lynch Fast.

Something_Smart
Best Mechanic
 
User avatar
Joined: November 17, 2015
Location: Rochester Institute of Technology
Pronoun: He

Post Post #433  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:31 pm

In post 419, eth0s wrote:@Something_Smart: do you view my past couple hammers as scummy? Why or why not?

No, I think it's primarily playstyle. A lot of people, town and scum, get lynch-happy in nightless games. And the Heartless hammer was risky no matter your alignment.

JaydragonKing
Mafia Scum
 
User avatar
Joined: November 21, 2017
Location: 'Murica. Heck yeah.

Post Post #434  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:48 pm

Smart, I wasn't here, but how in the hell did you guys decide to fucking hang Sheep in an hour? Day four is less then a page long and he was legit murdered in such a short period.

Please tell me you can't see why it's either you or Ethos in that situation.

Mathdino
Survivor
 
User avatar
Joined: February 24, 2013
Location: Right Behind You
Pronoun: He

Post Post #435  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:57 pm

sup ok

I read ethos's post last night and I was like "wtf i'm not responding to this until I see thoughts from other people" because ethos's train of thought is legitimately difficult for me to decipher sometimes.

And then I find that you two didn't comment on me vs ethos at all.

brb answering SS's question

but yeah please do comment on all that shit

jay answer my question that i asked you yesterpage

JaydragonKing
Mafia Scum
 
User avatar
Joined: November 21, 2017
Location: 'Murica. Heck yeah.

Post Post #436  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:05 pm

I'm going to assume the question between who I think between Smart and Ethos who's more scummy?

Looking back at everything.... And how fast Ethos ended day 4 with that lol hammer... I'd be more inclined to hang him, especially because he probably bluffed with the self vote.

Him attacking you also slightly contributes to that though.

Something_Smart
Best Mechanic
 
User avatar
Joined: November 17, 2015
Location: Rochester Institute of Technology
Pronoun: He

Post Post #437  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:05 pm

In post 434, JaydragonKing wrote:Smart, I wasn't here, but how in the hell did you guys decide to fucking hang Sheep in an hour? Day four is less then a page long and he was legit murdered in such a short period.

Please tell me you can't see why it's either you or Ethos in that situation.

I wasn't the one who made that decision. I voted the only person I didn't townread based off of interactions with Not_Mafia.

If you want to understand the hammer, ask eth0s, but I would assume he felt the same way.

And by the way Math, I will comment. I'm just waiting for you to answer my question before I say anything.

JaydragonKing
Mafia Scum
 
User avatar
Joined: November 21, 2017
Location: 'Murica. Heck yeah.

Post Post #438  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:09 pm

In post 429, eth0s wrote:God dammit Dino. You're either genius scum or a very genuine townie. Now I need to think this whole thing over. One step forward and two steps back, I guess. If you're scum I'm going to be so fucking mad lmao. Yes, I did exaggerate my scum-read on you to gauge your response. And if you're wondering, yes, part of the reason I self-voted was a reaction test. But if you're scum, you gave me nothing to work with and so here I am falling back on reads that I had pages ago. I thought about what you said with confbias so I am going to let off of this tunnel for now. Much gratitude to town!dino and a huge fuck you to scum!dino.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Something_Smart

spectrum:
eth0s
jay
dino
S_S

HOLY FUCK. JAY ISN'T MAFIA. JAY CAN'T BE MAFIA. How the fuck did I just realize this. Sadly jay is probably scumreading me even harder than dino is but I think I just cracked this thing. Jay spearheaded the not_maf lynch... why in the fuck would you do that if he was your partner? You don't second-vote your teammate d1 on a policy lynch. Not even in this setup would you do something that ridiculous. Sure there is the WIFOM aspect, but you really think that scum's first move would be to kill one of their own under no pressure? Sure, Not_Maf probably wasn't playing his win condition, and likely wanted to see a jester victory, but still. town!jay makes town!dino so very fucking likely that the subtle hints that S_S has been dropping all game just turned into hard evidence.

In post 74, Not_Mafia wrote:Okay so you're not scumhunting, cool got it. Ethos and Mathdino, you're welcome town, lynch me out of gratitude?


I know for damn sure he wasn't bussing me. Highly doubting that he was bussing you, dino. Neither of us were jester clearly. If I'm right and troll!Not_Maf wanted to see a jester win, he would have been calling out his top jester reads right there. 99% sure he was excluding his teammate. He was definitely trolling, but I believe he had a plan. And the funniest outcome that would get the best reactions would probably be not_maf being able to claim that he helped jester win.


This post also makes me feel weird about it too, with especially calling me out.

Final verdict: 70-29-1% for Ethos-Smart-Dino respectively.

Something_Smart
Best Mechanic
 
User avatar
Joined: November 17, 2015
Location: Rochester Institute of Technology
Pronoun: He

Post Post #439  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:13 pm

Why do you townread Math so strongly?

Mathdino
Survivor
 
User avatar
Joined: February 24, 2013
Location: Right Behind You
Pronoun: He

Post Post #440  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:41 pm

In post 430, Something_Smart wrote:Math. Explain your read progression on me.
You townread me day 1, then you scumread me day 2, then you jester-read me day 3, and now you townread me again. Why?

Incoming wall.

Spoiler: My Progression (or lack thereof) on SS
In post 87, Something_Smart wrote:Mod, has Not_Mafia confirmed his role yet?
In post 88, Mathdino wrote:holy shit

yeah SS is town

This was a banger of a question and I figured it was more than likely good town.

In retrospect I can see how this might've come from a frustrated partner, but yeah.

In post 113, Mathdino wrote:SomethingSmart: Okay so this one is definitely not jester either. The defence of Assembaa is weird and doesn't totally make sense.

This was after your conversation with Heartless which I was honestly having trouble parsing and figuring out exactly how to read people in a jester game.
A lot of that conversation didn't totally make sense to me at the time (or really make sense now) so I was kind of tabling reading you for later.

In post 115, Mathdino wrote:Safelynchpool: Aristo, Assembaa, SomethingSmart, NK15

Actually probably scum pool: Assembaa, SomethingSmart, and probably Not_Mafia if he doesn't drop dead

Note that D1-D3 I was more concerned with finding safe lynches than outright finding mafia vs town. A bunch of my reads wildly shifted between possible scum and possible town.
i also didnt really give a shit because jester game :neutral:

In post 204, Mathdino wrote:so the question for me right now is
something smart continued to defend not_mafia after there was any utility doing so
is this town with shit reads and no concept of policy lynching
or is this scum doubling down so he doesn't look bad for defending his buddy

VOTE: Something Smart

By this point I was pissed off that you tried to stall the N_M policy lynch, but at the very least pretty sure you weren't jester, which is mostly what I was concerned about.

In post 251, Not Known 15 wrote:
In post 211, Something_Smart wrote:
In post 209, eth0s wrote:Defending not_maf at all in this game seems like a viable jester strat lmao

I'll grant this. I like to whiteknight as scum and I really did think he was town so as jester I would have been much more passively defending him, probably by just calling people dumb and repeating that he was town rather than addressing their actual arguments. (Conversely, I would NEVER defend him after that wagon as his partner because I saw such a low chance of people actually listening to me.)

However. I think the rest of the day should prove that I'm not jester. I can easily point to a half dozen things I would have done differently.

I say this because I should probably not live to LYLO, and if I'm not going to I should be lynched today or tomorrow. And before you go OMG jester play!!!1! remember that I'd have to have somehow CORRECTLY and confidently read Not_Mafia, despite your implications that he's difficult or impossible to read.

Hmmmmmmmmm... defending yourself against a jester accusation? I think we should lynch Something Smart on Day 4.

This conversation with NK15 was pretty crucial to putting you in the "Oh shit he actually could be jester" pool. Defending against a jester accusation is pretty fuckin weird.

In post 255, Something_Smart wrote:My current thoughts are to lynch me and NK in either order and then keep Jay and Math alive.

Literally asking to be lynched.

In post 274, Not Known 15 wrote:
In post 270, Something_Smart wrote:
In post 268, Not Known 15 wrote:
In post 267, Something_Smart wrote:NK, am I jester or scum?

Pick one.

You are scum. You are either Jester scum or Mafia scum. I don't know which one. That is why I said that you should die Day 4. By then, you either suicided as Jester or are the last remaining mafia.

How can my actions have jester motivation or mafia motivation but not town motivation?

At the moment, I am not sure if you try to get towncred by telling others you want to get lynched as townie to prevent the Jester from winning...
or if you are really the Jester trying to get lynched on Day 3.
And that defense on Day 1, of Not Mafia, I don't know if you are their partner trying to avert a (for mafia) horrible Day 1 Mafia lynch or if you are the Jester who scumread them(especially easy if you know that they are NOT Jester because there is only one, you...) and tried to look suspicious

This conversation was also helpful for that. I don't know if you want me to expand on this. Just made sense except for one the points in the most recent post. I figured you intentionally acted as the odd one out/stick in the mud about lynching N_M to draw attention.

In post 292, Mathdino wrote:
In post 289, Not Known 15 wrote:Hey, Dino...
How do you get from

to

???

The conversation made me think you're more likely to be scum.

If you're not (or, I guess, even if you are), I'm comfortable putting SS in the possible jester pool and lynching someone else as our 3rd.

I still scumread NK15 at the time though. I figured, okay, I'm scumreading both of you, but NK15 is unlikely to be jester while SS could very possibly be jester. So if NK15 turns out to have been coming from a town mindset, I trust that read, and will lynch someone else D3.

In post 319, Mathdino wrote:NK15 made enough sense about SS for me to be extremely suspicious
arguing against a N_M policy lynch when N_M policy lynch is optimal strategy in every game is pretty jesterish

Suspicious of jesterness to be clear. Reiteration of what I said.

In post 341, Mathdino wrote:Okay honestly literally everyone so far has given more jester tells than Heartless.

SS: Hard-defended Not_Mafia.

D3 was primarily motivated by the fact that in my mind, basically anyone but Heartless could've been jester. I mostly cared about getting past the D3/D4 threshold so we could flip the jester and get to real scumhunting.

In post 398, Mathdino wrote:
In post 384, Something_Smart wrote:My current belief is simply that if Heartless isn't jester we can lynch everyone other than you and Jay and win.

FTR, i'm currently trying to figure out why the fuck scum would say this

because buddying up to 2 different townies is a really weird play if you have to make it to lylo with them and win
like the only situation i can see scum being this confident in this strategy is if he thinks that paranoia will cause the me/jay bloc to break down because of what i said to jay last page (i.e. he thinks he can get me to vote jay)

so i'm getting cold feet on SS

i'll iso him later but assembaa is clearly next up

This is me utterly confused on how to read you and diving straight into a WIFOM pool. By this point, it was unstated that I was scumreading you (since you didn't suicide after D3) but then you said and I was like wtffff why is he saying this :?:
So I tabled it for later and decided on Assembaa for now.

In post 422, Mathdino wrote:3. Because SS isn't gonna convince me to lynch Jay, and Jay isn't gonna convince me to vote SS without damning reasons. Go ahead and countervote, don't condescend.

ethos quickhammered and then did the Mathcase so I never really got around to doing the ISO on SS.


tl;dr you're hard to read, for D1-D3 I was mostly concerned with "oh god is he jester" (and even then, you're hard to read) and D4-D5 i was always more concerned with something else
i still have not figured out a lot of the things i was "wtf"ing with regard to your play
so that's what today is for i guess

Mathdino
Survivor
 
User avatar
Joined: February 24, 2013
Location: Right Behind You
Pronoun: He

Post Post #441  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:43 pm

Okay cool.

Jay actually giving a shit about who we lynch today is town-indicative I think.

@ethos: that's why I asked the question, was a reaction test fishing for "eh let's just lynch them both in whatever order".

and hot damn i really do not want to get to lylo with "queen of scum winning" elsa

Something_Smart
Best Mechanic
 
User avatar
Joined: November 17, 2015
Location: Rochester Institute of Technology
Pronoun: He

Post Post #442  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:48 pm

Two questions.

By "queen of scum winning" do you mean queen of winning as scum or queen of letting scum win?

And, why were you annoyed that I stalled a lynch that you only joined because you were bored?

Mathdino
Survivor
 
User avatar
Joined: February 24, 2013
Location: Right Behind You
Pronoun: He

Post Post #443  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:54 pm

1. Jay brags in many games about how every time he makes it to LyLo scum wins.
Strangely, every time I make it to LyLo as town, town wins.
So I'm wondering if it cancels out but I would really prefer not to find out.

2. It was the way in which you stalled it. I would've been okay if you were like HEY GUYS THIS IS LIKELY JESTER and you might've gotten me to believe you. But you (IIRC) argued that it was within N_M's meta to be a shithead and I was like "YEAH THAT'S LITERALLY THE POINT".

I like policy lynching people. I didn't only join it because I was bored. I stopped not-being-on-it because I was bored, figured he was gonna get lynched anyway, and he was more likely than not, not jester. I was ready to lynch his ass out the gate.

I heavily suspect he knew I would try to lynch him and acted as jester as possible because he knew that's the only situation in which I wouldn't try to immediately policy him.

Regardless, his scum flip didn't reflect well on you at all, and I agreed with NK15 that you were either scumbuddies or jester trying to be in people's way.

Something_Smart
Best Mechanic
 
User avatar
Joined: November 17, 2015
Location: Rochester Institute of Technology
Pronoun: He

Post Post #444  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:58 pm

In post 443, Mathdino wrote:Regardless, his scum flip didn't reflect well on you at all, and I agreed with NK15 that you were either scumbuddies or jester trying to be in people's way.

But if your reason for the lynch was merely policy and not that you actually thought he was scum, wouldn't my disagreement with your reasons for policy also not be alignment indicative?

(Although, that is not even the reason I cited for resisting the policy lynch. I resisted it because I had a legitimate townread on him when everyone else was taking his trolling meta to mean that reading him was impossible.)

Something_Smart
Best Mechanic
 
User avatar
Joined: November 17, 2015
Location: Rochester Institute of Technology
Pronoun: He

Post Post #445  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:59 pm

If you think eth0s is scum, I have a question for you then: why do you think HE joined Not_Mafia's wagon the way he did?

Mathdino
Survivor
 
User avatar
Joined: February 24, 2013
Location: Right Behind You
Pronoun: He

Post Post #446  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:01 pm

What?

I see no reason that "defending your buddy from a policy lynch" is non-alignment-indicative.

And ok, I didn't go back to check, but that's honestly worse, lol.

Edit: brb gonna go check

Something_Smart
Best Mechanic
 
User avatar
Joined: November 17, 2015
Location: Rochester Institute of Technology
Pronoun: He

Post Post #447  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:02 pm

Do you think scum-me expected me and Not_Mafia to both live to endgame?

Mathdino
Survivor
 
User avatar
Joined: February 24, 2013
Location: Right Behind You
Pronoun: He

Post Post #448  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:09 pm

In post 17, eth0s wrote:Ohhhh shiiiiiet jester is my favorite role :)))))
In post 19, eth0s wrote:I'm not the jester please stop harassing me......
In post 20, Not_Mafia wrote:Someone's sensitive, goon much?
In post 27, eth0s wrote:Wait I just realized I am the jester my bad
In post 28, Not_Mafia wrote:Wait I just realised you're full of shit my bad
In post 29, Not_Mafia wrote:eth0s who's your partner?
In post 30, eth0s wrote:You're saying that like you don't know :lol: :lol: :lol:
In post 31, eth0s wrote:Shit I thought this was the mafia PT
In post 161, eth0s wrote:lol fuck it
VOTE: Not_Mafia

I don't think they planned this out beforehand. Reads more as an impromptu elaborate LOL FUCK IT THIS IS A JESTER GAME LET'S DO THE MOST OUTLANDISH THINGS POSSIBLE distancing play. I think ethos realised that due to both of them claiming jester, one of them would have to go, and chose to go for max towncred.

Mathdino
Survivor
 
User avatar
Joined: February 24, 2013
Location: Right Behind You
Pronoun: He

Post Post #449  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:10 pm

In post 447, Something_Smart wrote:Do you think scum-me expected me and Not_Mafia to both live to endgame?

I don't think you expected him to die on D1.

Otherwise I wasn't really thinking about this so idk what you're asking.

PreviousNext
[ + ]

Return to Mayfair Club