Micro 773: Twin Trap - Game Over

[Hopkirk]

VOTE: Torn up

[Hopkirk]

Scum wouldn't hammer you.

[Hopkirk]

Why do you think I don't have a reason?

[Hopkirk]

Inconsistency.

[Hopkirk]

Especially after my vote.

[Hopkirk]

You want to wagon GL but don't like being wagoned.

[Hopkirk]

Why?

[Hopkirk]

If scum hammer then they're obvious scum.
If dumb scum hammer we lynch them.
Good trade if it happens.

VOTE: GL
thoughts?

[Hopkirk]

Ok scum team is GL and eth0s/mumble. GG.

~ C

You want to wagon GL but don't like being wagoned.

That's called hypocrisy not inconsistency. I said wagon GL not wagon us. I don't mind the prior votes on us, it's your vote that bothers me.

~ C

A prior vote is likely scum after vote.
You don't mind the prior votes.

Explain please.

[Hopkirk]

'Ok scum team is GL and eth0s/mumble. GG.'
This was a joke then?

I'm backtracking?

[Hopkirk]

Why do you think I don't have a reason?

By the way, asking what you think my reason is doesn't require me to have a reason.

[Hopkirk]

I have no idea who is in your hydra.

My point is you said I had a reason that I claimed wasn't RVS. I didn't say that.

[Hopkirk]

It wasn't random. It wasn't for content.
I wanted to wagon someone and interact with them.
You'd been on more recently than GL.

Inconsistency was after you voted me.

[Hopkirk]

Does this mean Flubber's scumpartner should be hammering any second now?

[Hopkirk]

If I say ‘nothing’ the interaction ends there. No read development.
The inconsistency I mentioned- on wagons- directly referred to post vote.

also I'm pretty sure Torn Up is at L-2, not L-1, because Hopkirk moved back to me in 45. we probably don't need another vote on them at the moment anyway though

Not a fan of fake hammers then?
UNVOTE: GL UNVOTE:

[Hopkirk]

UNVOTE: GL

[Hopkirk]

hello everyone!
RC, are we friends?

Hi Chara, where's your vote?

it was

going

to be on RC after my question was answered, but sleep. :>

you didn't like Guilty's lack of vote either. are you of the opinion scum avoids RVS?

If you'd make it either way then why withhold it?

[Hopkirk]

If scum hammer then they're obvious scum.
If dumb scum hammer we lynch them.
Good trade if it happens.

VOTE: GL
thoughts?

no, you do this little goofy putting people in L-2 and L-1, and sit back and enjoy the lolhammer

it fucking happens and I lost games because town did it on town

you're anti town, so you're either mafia or idiot

I'm leaning mafia right now

-tor

'Never have I ever': actually seen a lolhammer.
Doesn't happen 24h in unless complete idiots around.
Also, a lolhammer was impossible. Only me and Cheeky were online. I unvoted before anyone else posted.

Why do you think I don't have a reason?

By the way, asking what you think my reason is doesn't require me to have a reason.

cheeky's reasoning was towny and thoughtful

your reasoning was poop

-tor

Reread my posts and pay attention to the words in them.
Already said my reasoning wasn't important. I wanted interactions.

Cheeky did not say she'd caught the scumteam. She implied early leans.

You are agressive. Not a good agressive.
Did you talk to Cheeky before posting this string?- L1 if you don't respond next post.

[Hopkirk]

I AM L-1 ALREADY IF YOU VOTE ME I'M LYNCHED LOL

-tor

and no I didn't speak with cheeky

You quoted being L2...

I liked Cheeky's reaction. I hate yours.
If you'd spoken, you'd be obv-scum.

[Hopkirk]

VOTE: RC

I could see you thinking I'd lolhammer.

[Hopkirk]

I AM L-1 ALREADY IF YOU VOTE ME I'M LYNCHED LOL

-tor

and no I didn't speak with cheeky

You quoted being L2...

I liked Cheeky's reaction. I hate yours.
If you'd spoken, you'd be obv-scum.

you don't like me calling you an idiot. I'm doing so because you deserve it. because your play is bad.

-tor

You're just insulting people. That's not productive. That's not scumhunting.

[Hopkirk]

If you're town, you should think my play is good. It made me townlean Cheeky.

[Hopkirk]

I AM L-1 ALREADY IF YOU VOTE ME I'M LYNCHED LOL

-tor

and no I didn't speak with cheeky

You quoted being L2...

I liked Cheeky's reaction. I hate yours.
If you'd spoken, you'd be obv-scum.

you don't like me calling you an idiot. I'm doing so because you deserve it. because your play is bad.

-tor

You're just insulting people. That's not productive. That's not scumhunting.

don't lynch me before I even play though

I spent days looking forward to this game. what's wrong with all of you. it's a game with MAJ on, stop throwing votes around like it's meaningless jfc.

-tor

Your slot was in no danger of lynch until you entered it.

[Hopkirk]

'you put people near lynch

What the fuck are you talking about.
I put you at L2 then unvoted.
I'm not voting you.
Two other people did after I unvoted.

You're being toxic as well as not reading properly.

[Hopkirk]

'you put people near lynch

What the fuck are you talking about.
I put you at L2 then unvoted.
I'm not voting you.
Two other people did after I unvoted.

You're being toxic as well as not reading properly.

that's what you were arguing with cheeky. that scum would never hammer me, remember? that's what I'm talking about hopkirk. this is bad play. that's all. IDK what else to tell you, this isn't how you play a game with MAJ on.

when I vote I will want the person lynched. you don't need to put anyone in L-1 to get a read off of them and I wouldn't be toxic if I wasn't pissed at that. don't do this to me, don't do this to anyone. let people play the games they signed up for, thanks.

-tor

Scum

couldn't

hammer you.
They would need to both come online- if neither already voting.
They would need to put down two votes without me noticing.
I was refreshing the page frequently. L1 and I'd unvote. As said.

If you don't like RVS, playing here is dumb.

[Hopkirk]

I tentatively think that Mumble and Torn Up are town

I was thinking N_M was town based on his opener but it's not enough to commit to

Hopkirk might also be town, so if I'm right about all of those the game is already PoEd to 4 on day 1. although I actually think NM is less town than hopkirk

Ethos has nothing
Still have bad gut feels about GL
Not a fan of Chara but still relatively null
flubber's kind of garbage so far but not sure if he's scum garbage

These are my reads also

Very similar to mine.

VOTE: Torn up

VOTE: Hopkirk

You're going to put us at L-2 with 2 scum in the game, without a reason?

That's bad form old chap.

~ C

I actually give reasons. You can assume "without a reason" is referring to your naked vote.

How do you know scum wouldn't hammer?

If scum hammer then they're obvious scum.
If dumb scum hammer we lynch them.
Good trade if it happens.

VOTE: GL
thoughts?

This bit here - not sure what to make of it.

~ C

Ah, I said in my word vomit post I didn't get the vote. Hopkirk will need to explain the switch.

Reaction test. 100%.

[Hopkirk]

Actually just ISO'd him so this is where I'm at:

Not_Mafia, Hopkirk
Chara, RC Most Awesomest
eth0s, GuiltyLion
Mumble, flubbernugget

~ C

Why is NM hard town, and why was mumble scum as of 225?

torn up / RC is t/s I think

also toranga is being really annoying this game. Leaving my vote on torn up for now because I don't like the way toranga was handling vote pressure

at all.

Why is it TvS?

Oh mumble you've made a grave mistake as scum. I've given my readslist, I don't think I can provide a better conclusion of my reads than that. I was clear in my post to you I don't need to clarify anything there, you seem desperate trying to cast shade on me here using the term "fake" again to describe one of my posts but you don't point out whether it's AI or not.

I'd like a readslist from you.

~ C

Watch the baseless accusations. You still haven't provided a solid reason for your read on me, and failed to answer my questions in response. (If you won't, just say so, and I won't ask again.)

You've given a list of the players in this game without reasoning. That's not a reads list. You can give a better conclusion by stating the why.

I can't give you a reads list because players with less posts than the mod haven't done much. Again, I ask, why do you read each the way you do...specifically the town read on N_M. If you don't want to/can't answer (which you seems to have indicated), just say so, so I don't have to keep asking. If you can't though, then they are nothing more than words, no?

I'd settle for reads on players with more posts than the mod.

[Hopkirk]

Talk to me about why a slot that won't answer simple questions is town. I am listening to you.

@Hopkirk when you come on, tell me what you think. Remind you of someone?

~ C

You mean scum me?

VOTE: eth0s

[Hopkirk]

Okay yeah this needs to be policied

Why?

[Hopkirk]

The game would be 100% the same with or without hopkirk's posting and I don't think that's as true for my town reads.

Don't you have reads based on my interactions? Including Torn.

[Hopkirk]

Are you advocating a Torn policy lynch?

[Hopkirk]

Mumble and Chara are town.

talk to me about Mumble town?

Hopkirk: do you agree with Cheeky or not about Mumble looking like scum you? i'm assuming no as you voted elsewhere. and no, Cheeky's comment doesn't have anything to do with my vote.

Cheeky was referencing a previous game where I was scum.
I've tunneled new players as town too though.
Mumble entered looking town. That reduced a bit over time.

[Hopkirk]

'a slot that won't answer simple questions'
Same concept. Misremembered exact wording.

[Hopkirk]

Mumble's vote switch from 251-9 seems somewhat fake.
What do you think of it?

[Hopkirk]

250-259*

[Hopkirk]

251-9 is his vote on Torn up.
265 is what you're referencing.

[Hopkirk]

Fairly strongly match my reads.

[Hopkirk]

Why not?

[Hopkirk]

Torn up is strong town.
Chara's entrance was meh, but seemed okay later. Neutral-town.

Where is Chara in 422 GL?

VOTE: Flubber

[Hopkirk]

Torn reads like the thread is her hydra quicktopic.

[Hopkirk]

Which is genuine and good.

[Hopkirk]

How do you sort town NM through votes?

Chara's entrance was meh, but seemed okay later. Neutral-town.

what was meh about my entrance and what made you change your mind, exactly?

Torn Up's town, GuiltyLion is probably town, 431 in particular feels very honest.
i'm trying to see what scum Flubber would gain from avoiding my wagon here. it could be a misplay, but going around assuming that is pointless.

24 and 64 were empty as discussed. Bad.
Later posts weren't empty and I could follow the thought process- especially on RC and Torn. Good.

it would be easiest o say eth0s is cleanly scum for calling something TvS definitively, but i've seen town do it enough. i don't like him, though.
how does one say TvS over TvT? it doesn't make any sense unless one has strong reads on both, which Flubber plainly does not have.
town is Torn Up, Hopkirk. a bit more confident in the latter.

Kmd: you have Hopkirk and i voting twice in that count.

Don't ever make vote counts the first thing you do when you roll out of bed.

Why is GL locktown when I'm not?

[Hopkirk]

POE/scumpool is Flubber, Mumble, NM.

[Hopkirk]

That is scumreads and POE scum. Hence, POE/Scumpool.

[Hopkirk]

Torn up read isn't town because it looked like TvT.
Torn up is town because of how they're approaching the game, and how that approach reads.

[Hopkirk]

Why is GL locktown when I'm not?

why are you quoting my earlier townread like it needs to be locktown now because Guilty is locktown?
his posting is supremely genuine and i can see where his thought process is without it all being stated in plain words. real attempts at solving instead of solving that looks good.

Are you saying I'm not trying to solve?

POE/scumpool is Flubber, Mumble, NM.

and it sounds like you also have Guilty locktown?

Locktown is a strong word.

[Hopkirk]

Are you saying I'm not trying to solve?

that's a very negative spin on what i was saying. how'd you get that? you don't get to be locktown just by trying to solve the game, i explained why Guilty was specifically very towny.
why are you so insistent on being locktown to me?
what's your read on me and why?

real attempts at solving instead of solving that looks good.

I read this as 'GL is locktown for real attempts at solving. You're not locktown because your solving only looks good'. Not what you meant?
Townblocks are good.
Townlean.

to note, i know you answered about why my posts were better today. i want more specifics.

Late yesterday. Not today.

[Hopkirk]

Late yesterday wasn't empty.

[Hopkirk]

I didn't like your first few posts yesterday. They sounded empty.
I liked your posts after the first few yesterday. They didn't sound empty.

[Hopkirk]

You don't agree your early posts are empty?

[Hopkirk]

What relevant/useful content is there in your posts before 181?

[Hopkirk]

Fos on Not_mafia.

[Hopkirk]

@Gl/Chara: I did not see that, though I think I’ve covered it already. Empty posting was replaced with wider interaction and legitimate looking scumhunting. Liked the way he formed a townread on TU, that he didn’t attack RC, and 200 on Mumble.

[Hopkirk]

I'm not doing much to sort torn up right now because 90% of their play is drama I don't feel like troughing through.

If anything, I could call their vote on me opportunistic but that mostly stems out of being conftown from my own pov.

I've already said I think the hydraposting thing is fakeable. Why are you asking that again?

It's fakeable. Faking it is harder than it being natural. It doesn't look fake to me.

[Hopkirk]

Fos on Not_mafia.

what did you read that had you come to this?

Posting in multiple other games. Hasn't posted here for nearly 4 days. Could be lurker scum.
Didn't switch as I'm waiting to hear what Torn up says about his meta thoughts on NM.
NM doesn't have enough posts for me to make a meta read.

[Hopkirk]

Hi. I'm busy on the weekends so I don't have much to add right now, but you guys are going way off track.

I'm the watcher, so you probably don't want to lynch me. I've lightly crumbed quite a bit.

I watched TU last night, and no one visited. Figured that watching RC was useless as scum was going to send the watch-immune goon to do the kill. In retrospect, it looks like everyone is townreading TU so that was a bad move on my part.

Anyway, Chara/GL most likely. See you guys tomorrow night or Monday!

Why are you coming out now?

[Hopkirk]

I can't see any crumbs despite rereading your iso. Can you point them out.

Why did you watch TU after scumreading him yesterday.
He still looks like a scumread since he's in your scumpool today.

Probably real though.

[Hopkirk]

@Torn up: Can you explain why this is NM's town meta?
('a bit more confident on NM being town as per his meta.')

[Hopkirk]

Even after Mumble claimed watcher?

[Hopkirk]

Are Chara/Flubber POE?

[Hopkirk]

Hopkirk: will you vote NM? is it still NM/Flubber for you?

I want to hear Torn Up's thoughts on town NM.
Flubber/Nm currently, but I could see other things like you/Flubber.

Not counterclaiming. I'm just really fucking stupid today.

This is probably the most embarrassing game I've played in a while regardless of my alignment.

UNVOTE:

town. probably.

probably dumb to townread this post but i do what i want.
NM/Hopkirk. yay.

Why is that town?

[Hopkirk]

Guilty's never scum here. i think Hopkirk is more likely scum than Flubber but don't quote me on that.

Hopkirk: i agree with both of the stances Flubber had on Mumble and Torn Up, and agreeing with me is one tick for the townpile. posting without reading is a minor towntell but could possibly be ignored.
just felt good and natural with how he was frustrated with himself

Flubber: oh, i agree. the saddening part was because both clears are badly reading me.

how likely is it Flubber is hard-pocketing me? i don't know. if he's partners with NM i don't know if his stance makes sense here considering both clears are scumreading me. there isn't a lot of towncred to be had in correctly calling a mislynch, especially when it doesn't flip.
it's possible it's the longgame and scum not wanting to agree with bad arguments.
it's not like i'm locked in, so i'm not worried about it.

Hopkirk: why are you so convinced on Flubber scum? is there no way NM and i are bussing to you?

You were leaning slightly towards me in 514. Flubber already agreed with you then on those reads. I'm asking what changed to make him harder town?
I am not convinced on Flubber scum. You/NM is also possible. I didn't say it wasn't. Flubber/NM seems slightly more likely.

[Hopkirk]

Flubber/NM or Chara/Flubber seem slightly more likely*

[Hopkirk]

Not counterclaiming. I'm just really fucking stupid today.

This is probably the most embarrassing game I've played in a while regardless of my alignment.

UNVOTE:

@Chara: Actually I was under the impression Flubber intended to reread after this. Maybe not. Seems an oddly strong townread.
Also increases chance of Flubber/Chara for me.

[Hopkirk]

@Flubber: what are your current reads?

[Hopkirk]

Oddly strong:
One reason Flubber had you as town was your Mumble case.
He still liked/s it after realizing Mumble is confirmed town.

[Hopkirk]

Flubber pinged me when he liked Mumble/Chara for steering the game away from RC/TU when a.) the TU/RC debate was helpful- I townread both a little after it finished, and b.) he hadn’t sorted RC and had TU as scum from it. Didn’t like the TvS idea he was going with while discrediting its importance. Nothing in his iso screams town to counter this. His play today has been too under the radar.

Later- due to claims and GL townread- he moved to a three-person POE pool. He’ll be in 2/3 of teams there. That’s the pool I’m trying to sort. NM and Chara have more votes so I haven’t switched yet.

[Hopkirk]

I don't think I ever implied TvS in the interaction?

Also, whether or not the hydra posting is AI has been an axiomatic dispute since I disagreed with it. I don't think it's fair to take that disagreement and base me being scum off of it.

You don't state it's TvS, but you had a scumread on Torn-Up without a townread/read on RC. Combined with your comments on the exchange, that gave me the feeling you intended to lynch one then go after the other. Though eth0s seemed the same and he was town so it's not 100%.

[Hopkirk]

Oddly strong:
One reason Flubber had you as town was your Mumble case.
He still liked/s it after realizing Mumble is confirmed town.

Flubber said he liked my case for Mumble scum, thus informing the read on me. Mumble being town doesn't suddenly change their scummy play.
and i'm not townreading Flubber because he's townreading me.

Mumble - why was Torn Up's read "fake" here? And what's your current read on them?

Because I think they're lock/obvious town

I can see this as an attempt to pocket us. I don't think you could say we were obv. town, particularly when you take into consideration the hydra 1v1. If that made us obv town then the RC hydra should've had the same standing. I don't see any analysis on why our slot is likely town.

After the hydra debate settled down I thought you came of as strong town and RC came off as likely town. I don't think Gl's read was illegitimate.

[Hopkirk]

Meant to respond to 567 there:
Why else is Flubber town then? Your first point is because he's supporting you and has you as town.

[Hopkirk]

Later- due to claims and GL townread- he moved to a three-person POE pool. He’ll be in 2/3 of teams there. That’s the pool I’m trying to sort. NM and Chara have more votes so I haven’t switched yet.

why're you townreading Guilty?

Consistent sync. 58 on Flubber/Tornup was a good start. Similar to my thoughts then. Reads in 302 were almost exactly the same as mine which is good. 303 is town POV in reanalysing interactions. Thoughts continue to strongly resemble mine in 431. Overall he’s spent most of the game consistently reading the game the same way I am and forming near identical conclusions. That kind of sync is hard to fake.

Thoughts depart a bit in 479 since I don’t really like how hard Chara was pushing me to explain all the reasons I townread her. Kind of dislike GL/Chara both light pushing me to townread the other. If he’s scum it’s probably with Chara since the GL/Chara interactions are the only significant loss of sync. Doesn’t really fit with NM/Flubber though- who are my current scumreads- so remains strong town.

[Hopkirk]

I want to look at GL/Chara again when I've got more time actually.
UNVOTE: Flubber

[Hopkirk]

I thought we had longer. Should have time now though.

[Hopkirk]

- Nightkill on RC makes sense as RC scumread GL and Chara- moreso Chara. Voting patterns are consistent with the possibility.
- GL attempts to interact with Chara in 418 but doesn’t. Townread on Chara solidifies afterwards anyway. Might have been looking for an excuse to townread Chara.
- Chara pushes me to locktown GL and explain why I think she/he are town. GL pushes me to explain why Chara is town (quoting Chara though).
-
It’s mostly coming from Chara so the evidence doesn’t really support the team. GL remains strong town. Chara could be pocketing GL, but there’s strong reasons to like GL and Chara builds up to it so NM/Flubber seems more likely than Chara/NM or Chara/Flubber.

NM/Flubber still seems most likely. Preference is Flubber since NM/Chara seems unlikely- so Flubber is in the two most likely scumteams.

[Hopkirk]

Ok.

I probably haven't talked about GL, but I have notes for me based on his posting D2. Not really focused on the pre-flip associative at this point. I really get my reads from watching how things go between players. It'd be cool if we had a longer day phase this time around.

Was looking for why you had scum GL. Can you go through some of your notes?

VOTE: Flubber

[Hopkirk]

@Mumble: Did you use the right name above saying you don't see GL as scum?

The 'drop' seems to just be putting her below confirmed towns.
Don't really get Gl's trajectory on Chara either. I can see town, but not strong town.

[Hopkirk]

Why town NM?

[Hopkirk]

NM scum is twofold for me.
-Avoiding the thread for several days while active elsewhere.
-POE leaves two after removing GL/Chara. This doesn't work for you since they're your scumreads.

[Hopkirk]

NM scum is twofold for me.

Then why not hammer? You don't have enough time to push Flubber through.

-Avoiding the thread for several days while active elsewhere.

Is this different from how he typically plays?

I don't know if it's his meta in general, but he was posting a lot more when avoiding here in a game we just finished and he was town. It's a reason to scumread someone in general though.
Intending to hammer in about an hour before I log off.

[Hopkirk]

POE/scumpool is Flubber, Mumble, NM.

and it sounds like you also have Guilty locktown?

@Chara: This is why I thought that.

[Hopkirk]

If Flubber flipped town I couldn't see NM/GL or NM/Chara which would only leave Chara/GL.
Same doesn't apply if NM flips town as I could see Flubber/Chara.

[Hopkirk]

Got called away briefly. I think this is only 10 minutes later than I said.
VOTE: Not_mafia

[Hopkirk]

Flubber is still my top scumread.
Looking through Flubber/Chara, Flubber/GL, Chara/GL interactions to try and eliminate one.

[Hopkirk]

Flubber/GL

GL argues Flubber/eth0s are not likely partners. Scumreads Flubber.
Wants to talk about Flubber in 413, questions in 419.
Votes Flubber in 431. Unvotes in 475 due to L1/lolhammer possiblity.
483- Could see town Flubber saying bad things. Still seems to have Flubber as town.
Trajectory on Flubber doesn't make much sense. Vote in 431 reads as potentially fake given following change. Desire to interact with Flubber doesn't reflect lack of significant attempt to interact with Flubber.

Flubber responds to GL a couple of times. Does not ask any questions/attempt to sort. Townreads without reasoning.
Concurrent meta (finished but overlapped with this game): scum Flubber ignored one partner, lightly attacked the other but defended when partner was attacked. Lack of engagement with GL fits this. On the other hand, I scumread Flubber there too. He was much more dismissive.

Possible pairing.

[Hopkirk]

Flubber/Chara

Flubber quotes Chara several times, agrees with it, then townreads it and Mumble for their place in the TU/RC debate. Scumreads Mumble after Chara cases. Given townread on Mumble/Chara were for the same reason, seeing Mumble as scum should mitigate the towncred he gave Chara for the same thing. Townreads Chara more instead- could be explained by not seeing Mumble/Chara as the scumteam. However, doesn't scumread Chara after Mumble claims, so the maintained Chara townread is confusing. Attacks scumreads on Chara (538), and consistently has Chara as strong town.

Chara very interested in what people think of Flubber (176, 195, 424). Keeps Flubber as light scum all game. Suggests Hopkirk/Flubber in 530 while scumreading me more (potential lylo setup while pocketing GL?) Concerned about Flubber pocketing- potentially less likely to point this out if scumteam. Generally shades/dislikes Flubber all game without going into it. Flubber is consistently in Chara's scumpool, but Chara doesn't really question him or push him (or vote).

More likely pairing than GL/Flubber.

[Hopkirk]

I want to see how Chara responds to Guilty's read changing before I cover Chara/Guilty.

[Hopkirk]

Related prior post.

Hopkirk/Flubber is possible, Hopkirk's voting him but there's not really support for a Flubber wagon. they might be content with the NM/me split.
NM/Flubber is about the same.

The Flubber wagon was L1 until GL left- not wanting Flubber on L1 with NM ingame.
Why does scum me start then support a partner wagon to L1?

Flubber - 3 - hopkirk, guiltylion, torn up
Chara - 2 - not mafia, mumble
Mumble - 1 - chara

[Hopkirk]

at the time of my post, you were still on Flubber.
possibly a good point against you two being teamed, but i don't discount bussing and need to go look at that.

Bussing Flubber before Mumble/TU claimed sounds stupid.

[Hopkirk]

Chara/GL

Main notable thing in both ISOs was the mutual hard townreads. These seemed too hard. Interacted with both over them. Didn't like how Chara reacted to my locktown on GL. Didn't really understand GL's- especially 479 where I didn't understand the read strenghtening. Somewhat concerned about GL's read presentation. Hard, but not explained enough to justify the hard townread. The lack of explination positions GL nicely to let GL bus today.

Still not sure whether scum go for such a bold play of mutual hard townreads followed by this lylo play.

[Hopkirk]

is it really impossible that Hopkirk doesn't bus his buddy here? i should just go back and read it. eventually. by eventually i mean now.

Bus buddy here =/= bus buddy up to L1 before town prs claimed.

[Hopkirk]

GL's read is also consistent as town. If he's town and Flubber/Hopkrik aren't mafia together then Chara is on both possible teams.

@GL: Can you think of anything that makes Flubber/you implausible?

[Hopkirk]

Flubber - 3 - hopkirk, guiltylion, torn up
Chara - 2 - not mafia, mumble
Mumble - 1 - chara

but, no, this doesn't really make sense. NM and Mumble were both on me, Torn Up could have easily gone there, and it wouldn't have looked strange for Hopkirk to flip me here.

pedit: i've seen scum do ridiculous busses precisely because regular bussing is expected.

If me switching to you wouldn't have looked strange then that's evidence against me/Flubber.

[Hopkirk]

Main notable thing in both ISOs was the mutual hard townreads. These seemed too hard. Interacted with both over them. Didn't like how Chara reacted to my locktown on GL.

i've already explained my Guilty townread.
it's easy for players of a certain type to see why i'm town. it's why i don't get mislynched. Guilty recognizing as such when the rest of the game doesn't has no scum utility.

that he's still acknowledging it now while saying he'd lynch me sort of hurts that, especially considering he also agreed NM was likely scum, but the fear of having me suspected all game and then losing to me in lylo and feeling dumb about it is also one i understand and feels genuine.

pedit: my post should read 'my questions about Chara's locktown on GL'.

Why is it unlikely GL- who didn't explain his townread on you significantly- wasn't 'townreading' you while intending to turn on you?

[Hopkirk]

GL's read is also consistent as town. If he's town and Flubber/Hopkrik aren't mafia together then Chara is on both possible teams.

@GL: Can you think of anything that makes Flubber/you implausible?

is this post to me? what do you mean by town Guilty? you just said he's scum with me.

Is what bit @you?
I did not say he's scum with you. I said Chara/Flubber was likely last page. I didn't say whether GL/CH was more likely than that since I'm not sure.

[Hopkirk]

Why is it unlikely GL- who didn't explain his townread on you significantly- wasn't 'townreading' you while intending to turn on you?

i don't know. i suppose it hasn't happened to me before.
he didn't need to explain it more than he had because i think i've been pretty towny.
at least, trying hard enough to look town that it usually works and players pick up on it.

Why were you concerned Flubber might be pocketing you but not that GL might be?

[Hopkirk]

Chara/Flubber and Chara/GL both seem more likely than Flubber/GL.
Likely voting Chara.

[Hopkirk]

no, actually, why that conclusion?
Guilty's been townreading Flubber in the same way i have. he's part of the reason i have the read.
what are you independent reads on Flubber and Guilty?

Did you miss me covering Flubber/Chara and GL/Flubber?
Independently, Flubber is my top suspect.

[Hopkirk]

He is openly setting up flubber/Chara/GL for LYLO towards the end of Day 2.

I wasn’t completely confident yesterday. I’m someone who’s 70% sure of reads, not 90%. I though NM/Flubber seemed most likely, Chara was possible, and GL was not likely. Today my reads are still similar. When it’s down to three, all of them are possible at at least 30/200.

His vote on Not_Mafia was terrible

NM was a compromise lynch. You are aware of this since you recognise I preferred to lynch Flubber. Likewise, my NM vote was because nobody would switch to Flubber. NM is not the same as GL/you. You both had town content. NM had null or slight scum content. Lynching slightly scum leaning lurkers is better than lynching strong townreads formed due to actual content.

Now when I do a VCA how come Hopkirk is here when he's only ever had one vote on him the entire game?’

I couldn’t die n2 because scum shot a claimed pr. You’re arguing that my day one was bad AND that you can’t see why scum didn’t shoot me n1. These points are incompatible. Also, you aren’t ‘inactive’, you have more than triple Mumble’s post count.

Checking I’ve covered everything.

[Hopkirk]

Regarding 'setting up for lylo'- scum have more flexibility if they don't broadcast their intentions pre-lylo.

GL vote/reaction test intent: to see whether you attacked me over it as well. If you did, you were focused on attacking me over anything. If you didn't, it was more likely you legitimately disliked my initial vote on you, and weren't just saying it to attack me. You didn't, and I leaned town on you afterwards. I feel this is obvious.

[Hopkirk]

VOTE: GL

[Hopkirk]

Flubber/Chara?

[Hopkirk]

What made you change to guilty?

[Hopkirk]

Mumble dying makes you look scum- not me- given Mumble wanted to quicklynch you if NM flipped town.
RC was an obvtown and a hydra of two strong players.
Don't really get why scum would consider killing me over either of them.

[Hopkirk]

I decided to use a much less wordy style pregame. I can see that sounding clinical.
Thought I'd explained my eth0s read though, so I agree that looks bad in retrospect. I don't think my reads are very convenient otherwise.

[Hopkirk]

Strange how the two people who died were both certain you were scum.

[Hopkirk]

I think we're the only ones around from the game. What timezone are you?

[Hopkirk]

Huh, I'd decided to try and reduce my wallposting.

[Hopkirk]

I remember that, but can't quite find it. Maybe when you were pushing me over my read on you? I thought that was kind of suspicious and could indicate you/GL.

[Hopkirk]

It felt kind of weird given you accepted GL's townread of you basically without question, but questioned me and suspected Flubber of pocketing.
It wasn't so much you 'got better' as that you were initially doing something scummy, then stopped doing it, so it was likely you weren't doing the scummy thing intentionally/strategically which made it not scummy.

[Hopkirk]

We spent half the page hinting it was me/Chara since nobody else was online.

[Hopkirk]

ok, the real reason was i was mildly paranoid that it was somehow not hammer, even though i knew it was.

I was also waiting for you to say it first.

[Hopkirk]

I feel my cricisms of the case/673 were valid.

[Hopkirk]

Fine with scum QT release btw.

[Hopkirk]

We were the only ones who paid attention to your read. I was semi-surprised nobody cared about the kill choice d2. TU would have been a better kill choice from most perspectives.

Is there a deadtopic?

[Hopkirk]

What did you pick up on p1?