Micro 782: Jester Nightless - Game Over!

[Not Known 15]

VOTE: Ellibereth

[Not Known 15]

VOTE: Not Mafia
The Jester is probably Ellibereth.

[Not Known 15]

I THINK WE JUST FUCKING LYNCHED HIM.

Correct.

[Not Known 15]

Now that we got rid of the troll VT, let's lynch Mafia.
VOTE: Kokichi Oma
And don't vote Ellibereth unless you want a jester win.

[Not Known 15]

This

VOTE: Not_Mafia

Found mafia already

is the reason for my vote.

They asserted that NotMafia was Mafia, but there was no evidence towards that(or against that).
For me, Not Mafia was a policy lynch. I knew that they had a good chance to flip town.
And Ellibereth is the Jester so lynching them was good. You don't want a troll(who cannot be townread and plays horribly) to survive in flipless. Town or not.

[Not Known 15]

I was the first to vote him?

No, the third.
The first vote was from mutantdevle, the second from Not Mafia.

[Not Known 15]

I can't even tell who is jester or mafia right now.

Ellibereth is the Jester.

[Not Known 15]

A good jester plays like mafia. I see no townreads here whatsoever. Which is disturbing. I see no one who sticks out - UNVOTE:
and that means that I can't vote, currently.

[Not Known 15]

VOTE: Cooldog
That one is probably not a jester. We do not want to lynch a jester so let's lynch them.

[Not Known 15]

Just hammer to get the game going, who cares if he's jester, scum or town

you realize why caring about one of those three options is kinda important yeah

Yes but anyone being at L-1 without selfhammering is Not Jester and should be hammered.

[Not Known 15]

I think I found scum,
mutantdevle:

Yes but anyone being at L-1 without selfhammering is Not Jester and should be hammered.


This post just made me realise that if he is Jester then we have lost either way. There’s nothing to claim and I scum lean him anyway so.... fuck it.

VOTE: Cooldog

and then, shortly later...

I just checked and cooldog has been online since being put to L-1 and I posted my intent so we have a possible Jester here ignoring his wagon to get lynched.

There is a logical disconnect here.
I guess mutant wasn't hammering out of fear it would bite them back, and then saw me saying "ok" to a hammer without fully thinking through the argument, which is apparent in the second quoted post.
Now, there is definitely no town who thinks like that: mutantdevle isn't town.

[Not Known 15]

Sup

This was the post that made me suspect ellibereth as Jester.
Posts no vote but short fluff on RVS.
Their ominous reasoning(them just saying "exercise 1 and exercise 2") without saying why also points to them as Jester.
Keep your votes off them for now.

[Not Known 15]

I think I found scum,
mutantdevle:

Yes but anyone being at L-1 without selfhammering is Not Jester and should be hammered.


This post just made me realise that if he is Jester then we have lost either way. There’s nothing to claim and I scum lean him anyway so.... fuck it.

VOTE: Cooldog

and then, shortly later...

I just checked and cooldog has been online since being put to L-1 and I posted my intent so we have a possible Jester here ignoring his wagon to get lynched.

There is a logical disconnect here.
I guess mutant wasn't hammering out of fear it would bite them back, and then saw me saying "ok" to a hammer without fully thinking through the argument, which is apparent in the second quoted post.
Now, there is definitely no town who thinks like that: mutantdevle isn't town.

Your fallacy here is that scum still won’t wanna lynch the Jester. In fact, scum are going to specifically want to hunt the Jester because they are a mechanical threat to them.

You’ve pointed out a logical flaw that I hadn’t considered. If he had seen the wagon, he would have self voted. That was just something that slipped my mind and is hardly AI aside from showing I’m not thinking like a Jester. Those 2 posts were a few hours apart and I didn’t think to check when I placed the vote.

Caught you.

Yeah but if they are Jester they were just going to self hammer anyway.

For future days I suggest we should run people up to L-2 and then have 2 people declare intent to vote / hammer.

I just checked and cooldog has been online since being put to L-1 and I posted my intent so we have a possible Jester here ignoring his wagon to get lynched.

There are just some MINUTES between those. I think you didn't think that they were Jester or mafia(since you were Mafia) from the start. And took my line as excuse to hammer someone you really read as not jester and thus town. Without really, and wholly checking my argument. Because if you had really checked my argument throughly then you would not have done this.
It is the difference between being a townie and trying to look like a townie scumhunting by going with the arguments without actually scrutinizing them.VOTE: mutantdevle

[Not Known 15]

I think I found scum,
mutantdevle:

Yes but anyone being at L-1 without selfhammering is Not Jester and should be hammered.


This post just made me realise that if he is Jester then we have lost either way. There’s nothing to claim and I scum lean him anyway so.... fuck it.

VOTE: Cooldog

and then, shortly later...

I just checked and cooldog has been online since being put to L-1 and I posted my intent so we have a possible Jester here ignoring his wagon to get lynched.

There is a logical disconnect here.
I guess mutant wasn't hammering out of fear it would bite them back, and then saw me saying "ok" to a hammer without fully thinking through the argument, which is apparent in the second quoted post.
Now, there is definitely no town who thinks like that: mutantdevle isn't town.

Your fallacy here is that scum still won’t wanna lynch the Jester. In fact, scum are going to specifically want to hunt the Jester because they are a mechanical threat to them.

You’ve pointed out a logical flaw that I hadn’t considered. If he had seen the wagon, he would have self voted. That was just something that slipped my mind and is hardly AI aside from showing I’m not thinking like a Jester. Those 2 posts were a few hours apart and I didn’t think to check when I placed the vote.

Caught you.

Yeah but if they are Jester they were just going to self hammer anyway.

For future days I suggest we should run people up to L-2 and then have 2 people declare intent to vote / hammer.

I just checked and cooldog has been online since being put to L-1 and I posted my intent so we have a possible Jester here ignoring his wagon to get lynched.

There are just some MINUTES between those. I think you didn't think that they were Jester or mafia(since you were Mafia) from the start. And took my line as excuse to hammer someone you really read as not jester and thus town. Without really, and wholly checking my argument. Because if you had really checked my argument throughly then you would not have done this.
It is the difference between being a townie and trying to look like a townie scumhunting by going with the arguments without actually scrutinizing them.VOTE: mutantdevle

You are REALLY reaching now. "Those 2 posts were a few hours apart" was referring to 131 & 137 which were time-stamped 8:50 and 10:41. That's almost 2 hours apart from each other. These are the 2 posts you originally quoted and obviously the posts I was referring to. You have directly twisted my words and meaning here to fit your own agenda. The point I was clearly making was that I was not considering when cooldog was last online when I placed the vote. But instead, you decide to retort with "but you made 2 posts that kinda contradict each other". You've already pointed that out. I've already said that this is a simple mistake on my part with my own logical fallacy. How is me being blatantly wrong something scum would do? As scum, I'd have no reason to make such a post. I'm not defending myself there, I'm not arguing a point, I'm not trying to sway anyone's opinion. It is a simple post that has no real impact or meaning to the overall game as cooldog had already been lynched. At most, that post could have been used as an "I told you so!" if cooldog was indeed the Jester. I checked when cooldog had last logged in and voiced my initial thought on it which was blatantly wrong as I clearly hadn't put much thought into it. I simply wasn't thinking properly when I wrote that post and I don't see how being wrong in such a way is AI at all.

I think you didn't think that they were Jester or mafia(since you were Mafia) from the start. And took my line as excuse to hammer someone you really read as not jester and thus town.

So first of all, mafia don't know who the Jester is. Second of all, I had the perfect opportunity to vote cooldog earlier on in the wagon. I could have planted my vote then and there and had been done with it. Why the hell would I wait for the L-1 position to place my vote which is inherently more suspicious? And I wouldn't have needed you as an excuse, a simple hammer would have been fine since the wagon was essentially entirely sheep anyway. I was the only one on the wagon that wasn't voting purely because I thought cooldog wasn't a Jester. I was very clearly cautious of that possibility. But at the same time, I genuinely had a scum lean on him. I had more than enough reason to be on the wagon.

You misunderstood me. The posts you referred to were not minutes apart. But your reasoning was obviously FAKE because of these posts minutes apart.
And no, the later portions of a lynch are not always the most suspicious. Scum can push wagons early, after all, even start them. So, if you are scum why didn't you push early?
The answer is easy- you didn't have any sound reasons!
Yes you said that you were leaning scum... but you didn't say why at all!

[Not Known 15]

Ellibereth is possibly J E S T E R. Do not go that road.Worse, if they are not Jester they are probably town. Keep away from them.

[Not Known 15]

Then who do you want lynched? Cause everyone but like 1 person is scummy. I just want this game over with

That's still mutantdevle
VOTE: mutantdevle

[Not Known 15]

Yeah. But I just realized that Ellibereth is at L-1. REMOVE YOUR VOTES FROM THEM fast

[Not Known 15]

NVM they are at L-2 incorrect counting.

[Not Known 15]

@

mod

:Votecount, please.

[Not Known 15]

I am pretty sure now that mutant is mafia. It is 3 scum vs 4 town(and jester will not want any lynch but theirs); we need to get all town on a scum lynch.

[Not Known 15]

Yeh, you keep saying that but, like, where’s the substance?

I’ve responded to your initial accusations which you have yet to refute, a clear indication that you can’t backup your opinions, and now you say “I am pretty sure now” as though I’ve done something since that convinced you fully of your opinion. We’re you not convinced before? If so then what was your whole ‘ha, gotcha!’ about? And what is it that I’ve since done?

You can’t just say your opinion and expect people to agree. You have to state your case each time you make accusations and actually persuade people of your opinions. Not doing so just leaves others to do the work for you and is inherently scummy.

Let me tell you why I said this:
ha, gotcha! was indeed a similar expression. Then you posted your defense and I was not so sure then.
But then...

VOTE: ZZZX
Maybe they might start making posts of substance now?

you were looking for an easy lynch. What is extra concerning now that you posted an intent to vote ZZZX before, but avoided voting until someone else started this wagon. I am pretty sure that you know that they are a risk(jester) but see them as the only good counterwagon to yourself.

Additionally we had this crap:

You’re saying nk15 is most definitely the Jester?

when it should have been clear that not mafia meant no idea if jester or town.
and then you went even more idiotic:

So yes? Nk15 and not_mafia are the same person? Could be Jester OR town but just not mafia?

Look, I’m not good at the whole guessing thing. I’m someone with a lot of self doubt and I regularly second guess myself, so when you make your thoughts and opinions unclear it really doesn’t work for me and I end up confusing myself. Naturally, I will assume your opinion is that which is most probable. The fallacy there is that what I consider most probable isn’t always correct (obviously). I’d prefer my questions towards you to be about WHY you think something rather than WHAT it is you think. So I’d appreciate if you could be more straight forward with your opinions.

All of that looks like forced content instead of genuine scumhunting.

Also, I simply get a bad feeling when I look at your posts.

[Not Known 15]

I am pretty sure now that mutant is mafia. It is 3 scum vs 4 town(and jester will not want any lynch but theirs); we need to get all town on a scum lynch.

Who are the other scum

I have insufficient info to reliably find a partner. The most probable partner is Ellibereth, but my confidence in that is really low(apart from that Ellibereth is a potential Jester candidate while Mutant is not).
ZZZX is also a potential Jester.
I am not absolutely sure that the Jester is in Ellibereth/ZZZX but it is likely.

[Not Known 15]

Before we possibly enter lylo, is there anyone who does not believe that Archwing is either jester or scum who after day 2 started hiding behind a jester mask? Because he has not done anything but naked voting and bumping today, which is completely out of line with how he presented himself on day 2.

They look more closely to their towngame, so Archwing is probably town(or if not then Jester). I don't see mafia there.

[Not Known 15]

I warned you... Well, scum, pushing for Ellibereth wasn't the right move.

[Not Known 15]

kokichi and mutant were probably scum with zzzx as a sleeper third if one of those are wrong you guys suck topkek

mutantdevle + kokichi oma was the scum team.
I'll add PTs when I am not sick assuming the scum team has nothing against them being released.

Yeah good reads. I had mutant but nobody seemed to see it.
Kokichi was also a possibility for me(with mutant) but not Number 1.
But generally, nearly everyone seemed to ignore my reads or shrug them off. Nothing much more I could have done.