Micro 661 | Scumteam UnPick - Pressure Done

[Something_Smart]

And if I were hoping he'd get lynched without my help, I'd push in a completely different direction like Dun, ZZZX or Gamma with unpersuasive arguments, not contribute directly towards Prohawk's lynch.

But you didn't contribute directly to ProHawk's lynch until I voted him and basically forced you to.

[BlackVoid]

That's bull. You didn't force me to do anything. I was midway through catching up. I already said I was going to vote Prohawk and you put down a vote before I could finish reading the game.

[Ms Columbo]

Super quick...I'll he off-grid for the next 5 hours but will be here for the last two.

Where I am. Right now I would vote Smart for two main reasons:
1. I think the the play surrounding PH's lynch is more likely a bus by Smart than BV
2. If BV is scum he deserves an award.

[BlackVoid]

At the risk of twinging your gut like crazy, vote him before you go. I'll heave a huge sigh of relief.

[Something_Smart]

Well, you've got two reasons that are mostly out of my control.

Regarding the first point, what I can say is that you should look at ProHawk's reaction to BV; in particular, his reaction to Jaack insisting on a BV/ProHawk team after BV caught up.

your vote on me is bad. Your reasoning is bad. And its all based on an associative that you have NO CLUE about. Oh look, Tenshii reincarnate wants to lynch me. YOU'RE RIGHT! We totes decided to hard bus eachother because.... new guy!

When I bussed my partner in Fire & Ice, I made sure to emphasize how ridiculous it was that I could be his partner. ProHawk is doing the same thing here: look at how RIDICULOUS it is that I could POSSIBLY be BV's partner!
Whereas he did no such thing with me. The strategy with bussing is to go big or go home: you get as much as you can out of a bus to offset its cost, and that's what BV did. I did no such thing, and I never claimed that I shouldn't be considered scum because I pushed ProHawk. (I think my D1 & D2 play was strong, independent of the fact that I pushed scum.)

Regarding the second point, it's a case of unequal opportunity. BV has the time to invest in the game, and so he does. He really wants to win, and he's shown that, and so it might be tempting to let him. But as I said, he doesn't deserve anything. Don't fool yourself into thinking he does.

Aside from that, I urge you to look over-- even briefly-- the arguments he's put forth today. Think about them not holistically but logically, and most of them fall apart with just a little examination. He's throwing everything he can at you in the expectation that you won't carefully examine it all, and if I try to refute it then I look like the bad guy.

[BlackVoid]

Smart is pushing pretty hard on the "really wants to win" argument. Well, yeah I want to win. I'm also town. He's going on about vague stuff like "look logically not holistically" which isn't really a meaningful argument. I have actually been very keen on making sure you examine all of my arguments, pointing you to specific posts, games, and engaging you one on one. Saying I'm hoping you'd skim over them is very far from the truth. If he were town, he wouldn't care about "looking like a bad guy" because he'd know the evidence favors him.

---

That quote by Prohawk was actually him complaining of being caught and lynched for the wrong reasons. Jaack even pointed this out after Prohawk's lynch. That's why he was emphasizing the ridiculousness - to save his own skin. Prohawk knew that association wasn't true. But he was getting lynched anyways.

In fact, early D2 when there was relatively little pressure on him, Prohawk's reaction here:

If you're wondering about my ProHawk, it just that I think that Tenshii-ProHawk pair is too likely to ignore at this point, and ProHawk is more likely to independently be scum.

Moar Please? All I can see is "I think Tenshii is scum, and ProHawk and Tenshii pair is the most likely combo so I am going to flip ProHawk first??"

shows him subtly insinuating that Tenshii should be flipped first. He's suggesting Tenshii should be lynched first in a roundabout manner because he knew a Tenshii townflip would erase those associations. That was the one way to refute Jaack's associative case. But he couldn't directly push Tenshii or that would have been a giveaway that we weren't partners. He needed Jaack to make that push.

Prohawk was also buddying and townreading me to both get me on his side, and to further propagate the idea that he was partnered with me.

---

If I were trying to go big or go home as Smart is claiming, I'd have set up scum theater with Prohawk pushing me back - which is

exactly

how he and Smart treated each other as the lynch went down. Yet Prohawk never voted Smart or risked putting him at L-1. Instead he pushed Jaack - a much harder lynch than Smart.

you get as much as you can out of a bus to offset its cost, and that's what BV did.

You see how this applies much more to Smart than me. He's the one who stood to gain two mislynches and a win out of the bus.

I never claimed that I shouldn't be considered scum because I pushed ProHawk.

Yet, that's clearly the conclusion he was hoping the town would draw without him explicitly having to argue it. I mean, what would you be expecting town to think when you bus? You don't have to go "hey guys, look I pushed scum." You just expect people to notice.

[Ms Columbo]

I'm back.

[BlackVoid]

Awesome. I was refreshing the page quite a few times.

[BlackVoid]

You ready to vote Smart or do you need to talk over anything else? I've got an interview in a while and just wanted to go out on a high note rather than be anxious. 384 from Prohawk should seal it though. He wouldn't be encouraging Jaack to flip Tenshii first as that would mean a loss. But I think he was hoping that a Tenshii-townflip would clear him because then the associative case would fall apart.

[Something_Smart]

I never claimed that I shouldn't be considered scum because I pushed ProHawk.

Yet, that's clearly the conclusion he was hoping the town would draw without him explicitly having to argue it. I mean, what would you be expecting town to think when you bus? You don't have to go "hey guys, look I pushed scum." You just expect people to notice.

But you are explicitly arguing that you are town because you pushed ProHawk, while at the same time calling it scummy for me to do it.

You ready to vote Smart or do you need to talk over anything else? I've got an interview in a while and just wanted to go out on a high note rather than be anxious. 384 from Prohawk should seal it though. He wouldn't be encouraging Jaack to flip Tenshii first as that would mean a loss. But I think he was hoping that a Tenshii-townflip would clear him because then the associative case would fall apart.

Tenshii was never getting lynched on Day 2. The matrix wouldn't allow it, and I'm sure ProHawk was aware of this. (I made it abundantly clear myself.) So the only point of ProHawk's implication that Tenshii should be lynched first is to imply that they weren't partners.
Furthermore, ProHawk was caught for the wrong reasons, as BlackVoid said. Regardless of my and BV's alignment, ProHawk was being pressured due to people's reads on Tenshii, and he didn't like that. And this is true regardless of Tenshii's alignment, and therefore should be disregarded.

Ms Columbo, I believe you're capable of figuring this out and I think I've provided enough to point you in the right direction.
But if after all that you still think I'm scum, then I really don't think anything I say will change your mind, so just get it over with.

[BlackVoid]

On Smart's points:

But you are explicitly arguing that you are town because you pushed ProHawk, while at the same time calling it scummy for me to do it.

The entire point of this lylo has been for you to decide which of our pushes are more likely to be a bus. And I think I've sufficiently demonstrated that Smart's play around Prohawk is much more likely to be a bus than mine.

[BlackVoid]

Columbo - we've both made a lot of points and it basically comes down to this: we both lynched scum. By lynching scum, whoever is the partner did something that was against the scum wincon in the short term for a long term gain. To evaluate which is more likely, see that Smart bussing Prohawk would get him to a win almost effortlessly and hand him two mislynch for one scumlynch. With me, it wouldn't. Lynching Smart would be the strategy that would get me the win. My interactions with Prohawk were pretty muted and if I were somehow bussing, I'd theater it up even more.

Smart did this. He and Prohawk had a showdown to get him out of the lynch looking wonderful with me and Dun both implicated. It's just way more likely Smart is scum. Don't be fooled by his last minute ATE. He's very good at that. If you look at the evidence, it all points to him.

[Ms Columbo]

You ready to vote Smart or do you need to talk over anything else? I've got an interview in a while and just wanted to go out on a high note rather than be anxious. 384 from Prohawk should seal it though. He wouldn't be encouraging Jaack to flip Tenshii first as that would mean a loss. But I think he was hoping that a Tenshii-townflip would clear him because then the associative case would fall apart.

Tenshii was never getting lynched on Day 2. The matrix wouldn't allow it, and I'm sure ProHawk was aware of this. (I made it abundantly clear myself.) So the only point of ProHawk's implication that Tenshii should be lynched first is to imply that they weren't partners.

@BV - can you address this? You also stated several times that Tenshii would never be lynched D2. Why would PH be pushing a Tenshii lynch?

I've been reading Smart from D3 on to make sure this is the right choice.

[BlackVoid]

I don't think Tenshii was going to get lynched. I can't say that Prohawk believed the same thing. I really he really WANTED that flip. See, it only became obvious that Prohawk was going to go before Tenshii when Jaack explained it to him in response to that post.

[BlackVoid]

Jaack was scumreading Tenshii more than Prohawk. So, I think it seemed to him that if he could just get Jaack to push another mislynch while keeping his hands clear, he'd get into lylo after the associative case fell apart.

Thinking about it a little more, I think that's actually not as strong of a point as I thought it was so you are right.

[Ms Columbo]

At the risk of twinging your gut like crazy, vote him before you go. I'll heave a huge sigh of relief.

The time away included some driving time so I had some time to think. That and I walked away as soon as I posted, didn't see that until I returned.

BV - I think you've played a great game. There's a twinge of doubt, but it's hard for me to see you as scum. Now if you are scum I will feel compelled to vote you in any future game purely on principle.

And Smart - you'd had a good game too. If I didn't know one of you had to be scum I wouldn't think either one of you are scum. If BV managed to fool me, I apologize.

Any last thoughts?

[BlackVoid]

I'm really not scum Columbo. I'm serious. All the stuff I said, I genuinely didn't think I'd have it in me to fake it.

[Ms Columbo]

For better or worse...

VOTE: Something_Smart

[BlackVoid]

YES! I was town by the way. Fuck yeah, this was the best win ever. Nice job. Heading out now.

[Creature]

Votecount 4.5

Votecount 4.5

[2] Something_Smart - BlackVoid, Ms Columbo [LYNCH]

[0] Ms Columbo
[1] BlackVoid - Something_Smart

[0] Nolynch

Not voting:

3 players are alive and 2 votes is needed to reach majority.

Deadline: (expired on 2017-01-24 21:00:00)

[Creature]

Something_Smart was lynched, he was

Mafia Goon

.

Congratulations to the town

Mod PT
Scum PT
Dead PT

[Gamma Emerald]

omg best punk ever

[Jaack]

The strongest of trolls.

GG Scum. You both played pretty well. Like I said in the dead thread, I think that the lack of overlaps in the unpicks really hurt you guys in the long run. There was too little room to hide.

If I were to suggest one change to the setup, I think it might make more sense to skip N2 as opposed to N1. Either that or maybe give scum the option to kill either N1 or N2, but not both.

[Gamma Emerald]

maybe give scum
>daychat at least d1
>option to nk n1 or n2, must be determined end of d1

[Ms Columbo]

Lol, I got played, sorry Smart and the rest.

@BV - No need to continue the charade with the win. That was cheap.