Micro 676: Bill Wurtz Mafia (Game Over)

Transcend
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Post Post #50  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:39 am

Vote*
"The first time I played Transcendscum he acted powertown and he and bacde led me like a collared sex slave in Rotterdam" - Zachstralkita
"Transcend. Well done. You wade through oceans of shitposts and even shittier logic to find the pearl of the lying scumfucks. Good job." - DiamondSentinel

CommKnight
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Post Post #51  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:59 am

In post 25, Syryana wrote:Fast RVS = good RVS. Implosion, Kain, and Comm are all town.


I really don't like this post. It screams to buddying too much. He could be 100% correct, but how quick he is to just tick 3 people in a 9 player game off as town is a bit... off.

As I said, I'm comfortable with my earlier analysis. Implosion is definitely worth looking into at this point. Although there are people who have yet to contribute and we'll see what happens with them.

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Post Post #52  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:12 am

I get reads quickly as well. I can't speak for syr, but games on my home site last on average 20 minutes. This means reads have to be made quickly with immensely less content in a forum mafia game.
"The first time I played Transcendscum he acted powertown and he and bacde led me like a collared sex slave in Rotterdam" - Zachstralkita
"Transcend. Well done. You wade through oceans of shitposts and even shittier logic to find the pearl of the lying scumfucks. Good job." - DiamondSentinel

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Post Post #53  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:36 am

So glad it looks like this game will be active, at least.

NAI is currently how I'm reading CommKnight's views on claiming/RVS. Scum, even scum unfamiliar with site meta, wouldn't be that transparent about wanting claims on a site that generally encourages claims only at L-1 or with intent to hammer. I think it's more of a culture difference than a scum claim atm.

Both KT and implosion jumped on CK pretty quickly. Possible town motivations include interacting with CK to try and figure out his alignment and hopefully teaching him when claims usually happen. Possible scum motivations include earning town points for saying how bad it is to claim early.

I actually like that implosion took his vote off CK - I feel scum could have pushed on an inexperienced player there as a somewhat easy target, although perhaps it would have been a bit transparent that that was what he was doing. I like his explanation for the initial vote switch to CK.

I like KT's emotion, I don't like his quick jump to CK's wagon. Want to see more of those interactions though, it looks like everyone kinda left that discussion for work/bed and hasn't returned to respond yet.

In post 44, Transcend wrote:Lean town on syr


From a single post? I know it's only a lean, but could you maybe explain that a little more so I can understand? Unless there's reasoning you want to keep back for a bit.

Gamma's contributions so far have been an RVS vote, a joke about Town of Salem, and a conversation about another game with implosion. I don't see anything AI there, but I'd like to see more game-related stuff from him. There's been plenty to comment on, and clearly he was online for a least a little bit. It's enough for me to swap away from my RVS vote for now.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

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Post Post #54  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:39 am

I don't like articulating my early reads too much
"The first time I played Transcendscum he acted powertown and he and bacde led me like a collared sex slave in Rotterdam" - Zachstralkita
"Transcend. Well done. You wade through oceans of shitposts and even shittier logic to find the pearl of the lying scumfucks. Good job." - DiamondSentinel

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Post Post #55  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:50 am

Like my early lean reads.
"The first time I played Transcendscum he acted powertown and he and bacde led me like a collared sex slave in Rotterdam" - Zachstralkita
"Transcend. Well done. You wade through oceans of shitposts and even shittier logic to find the pearl of the lying scumfucks. Good job." - DiamondSentinel

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Post Post #56  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:04 am

I'd like to revise my read on CK - I still believe all the claiming/RVS confusion is NAI, but I dislike his confidence that the first person to vote on him must be scum.

There is little to no real leads Day Ones. But i am happy enough with my analysis of your behaviour to lock this vote in. It is not leaving without a claim.


It's really odd to me that after not even one page of discussion, CK says he is never moving his vote unless implosion claims. Town should be willing to change their mind - not easily or extremely often, but tunneling to the point of never claiming you'll never change your vote unless that person claims a role, on page 1 of the entire game, is a little odd. I read through the thread twice assuming I was town!CK and scum!CK and I found the confidence he had really unnerving - perhaps I'm just a less confident player than him, but I don't like the sense of surety at all.

Given my new thoughts on the situation I'm going to switch my vote, but naturally I think there should be a lot more discussion before any claims/lynching occur. This is L-2, I believe.

VOTE: CommKnight

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Post Post #57  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:17 am

That looks like a bit of a stretch

VOTE: Stormcloud
"The first time I played Transcendscum he acted powertown and he and bacde led me like a collared sex slave in Rotterdam" - Zachstralkita
"Transcend. Well done. You wade through oceans of shitposts and even shittier logic to find the pearl of the lying scumfucks. Good job." - DiamondSentinel

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Post Post #58  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:28 am

Oh it almost definitely is!
I'm pretty new to the game and brand new to this forum, and I'm honestly not sure if it's just this game/these players or if early reads are always this hard. From what I know, you're supposed to just kind of put your thoughts out there (although lots of players don't do this ofc). But as a newbie it seems like my best bet to just give my honest thoughts as often as I can.
CK is just the strongest read I have right now - I'm finding KT's actions difficult to read, and I could see them coming from either alignment so he's pretty much null for me. implosion, basically the same thing.
I am reading you as town, pretty lightly though.
These are all 95% gut at the moment though, I'm really feeling pretty unsure. I'll probably wait until others talk a bit to try and read anyone else.

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Post Post #59  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:30 am

Welcome

Where did you come from?
"The first time I played Transcendscum he acted powertown and he and bacde led me like a collared sex slave in Rotterdam" - Zachstralkita
"Transcend. Well done. You wade through oceans of shitposts and even shittier logic to find the pearl of the lying scumfucks. Good job." - DiamondSentinel

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Post Post #60  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:35 am

I don't have a home site, if that's what you're asking. I've played IRL several times and I watch mafia streams, and I've read nearly the whole wiki and spectated some newbie games to get a feel for the site.
This is my first game on a forum though.

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Post Post #61  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:37 am

Alright

I disagree with your points to scum read Comm

Have you read the points to townread him and compared apples to oranges?
"The first time I played Transcendscum he acted powertown and he and bacde led me like a collared sex slave in Rotterdam" - Zachstralkita
"Transcend. Well done. You wade through oceans of shitposts and even shittier logic to find the pearl of the lying scumfucks. Good job." - DiamondSentinel

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Post Post #62  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:50 am



Votecount 1.2

[2] CommKnight (KainTepes, Stormcloud)
[1] Gamma Emerald (KainTepes, Morning Tweet)
[1] implosion (CommKnight)
[1] KainTepes (implosion)
[1] Stormcloud (Transcend)
[1] Transcend (Gamma Emerald)

[2] Not Voting (Parama, Syryana)

With 9 alive, it is 5 to lynch.

Let me know if you see any problems.

Deadline is in (expired on 2017-01-24 22:00:00)
beefycheese

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Post Post #63  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:57 am

There is definitely an alternate reading of him as very new town with some slightly odd ideas about how to catch scum. He says he wants discussion, which is good, although I disagree that we should be encouraging early claims to spur the discussion on. He is posting a lot, which is normally NAI but if he actually is a new player and not an alt I'd say it's a good sign. I've seen quite a few lurky new scum players in the newbie games and it's somewhat hard to fake that level of eagerness as a new player. That said, I don't think he's new to mafia, just to the site, so I don't want to underestimate him.

I like that he got us out of RVS (perhaps unintentionally as he didn't know what it was lol).

It seems like you liked him putting you at L-2, which makes sense. Early wagons and pressure are generally good for discussion, even if no one claims.

I don't think both scum are in {CK, Kain, implosion}, but other than that I just don't know what to think about the whole interaction. It was very interesting, but I could see town and scum motivations from everyone involved (and Kain and implosion are clearly not new players, so I don't want to naively townread them for things easily faked).

One thing I'm a bit curious about with regard to you - you said you don't care about previous games, yet you asked me where I'm from. People often seem to ask that so that they can read a player's previous games on their home site, but I'm guessing that wasn't your intent since you said you don't read previous games. Was there some other reason you wanted to know?

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Post Post #64  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:26 am

I realized I said a lot but didn't answer your question directly.
Your stated reason for townreading CK is for his L-2 vote on you - you said it seemed genuine and not opportunistic. I agree that that's towny, if pretty lightly so.
The part I didn't like was his response to implosion's vote on him, which I don't think you addressed anywhere? You continued to townread CK and I didn't see you state any other reasons why you did.
So, I don't think your townread and my scumread are incompatible - we're just looking at different things that CK did and weighting them differently because we are different people.

I'm not going to sheep your reads because you're more experienced than me - for one thing if I did that I'd be sheeping nearly every person in the game. But I will take them into account!

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Post Post #65  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:46 am

EHLLO!!!!!!!! KAIN TEPES IN THE HOUSE,,

keeping my vote on COMMKNIGHT still because i find that early "assessment" of the game a bit iffy,, like sure it can be newbtown making a gross mistake but it seems more likely from past experience that it's just newbscum trying to find an excuse to park a vote
I AM KAIN TEPES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"I am afraid of SAYING HIS NAME!!!!" - Toto
"why be a better mafia player, when you can be a better KAIN TEPES???" - Vi

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Post Post #66  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:49 am

Transcend wrote:I don't know why he stopped why he started

Well if you're not going to read my posts because they're walls then maybe there's a reason that you don't know why i've done things ^_^

CommKnight wrote:As I said, I'm comfortable with my earlier analysis.

Your earlier analysis... that I'm flying under the radar... when I'm clearly not?

Isn't analysis that someone has a particular strategy of flying under the radar contingent on them, you know, doing that?

Transcend wrote:I get reads quickly as well. I can't speak for syr, but games on my home site last on average 20 minutes.

Quick reads in a forum mafia setting are extremely different from quick reads in an IRC setting.

Still have more to say but heading to work shortly.
Morning dove...
One thing I'm sure of...
Kisses ain't near enough
to rein the vultures in

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Post Post #67  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:50 am

In post 66, implosion wrote:Your earlier analysis... that I'm flying under the radar... when I'm clearly not?


and that's why i think he's scum,, it's an easy excuse to chart someone for flying under the radar

i don't think even a new player will be that reluctant to accept an EXPLANATION
I AM KAIN TEPES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"I am afraid of SAYING HIS NAME!!!!" - Toto
"why be a better mafia player, when you can be a better KAIN TEPES???" - Vi

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Post Post #68  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:32 pm

@Stormy
In post 56, Stormcloud wrote:I'd like to revise my read on CK - I still believe all the claiming/RVS confusion is NAI, but I dislike his confidence that the first person to vote on him must be scum.
There is little to no real leads Day Ones. But i am happy enough with my analysis of your behaviour to lock this vote in. It is not leaving without a claim.
It's really odd to me that after not even one page of discussion, CK says he is never moving his vote unless implosion claims. Town should be willing to change their mind - not easily or extremely often, but tunneling to the point of never claiming you'll never change your vote unless that person claims a role, on page 1 of the entire game, is a little odd.
I suppose town should be willing to change their mind, sure. Buuut let's take a look at how CK viewed the game at that point.
In post 16, CommKnight wrote:By unvoting you take away someone from claiming and having real discussion happen for the rest of Day 1. Thus you are looking to stall such discussion. This is evident by your lack of reasoning when unvoting and voting me. You still haven't even said anything. But hey, let's try to look active.

While I would've been happy for a claim from the first one, your behaviour dictates that you are stalling the game. Stalling is motivated only by scum. You like to make sure it's the last possible second before we have someone at L2 so town either is forced to no lynch or lynch an innocent townie.

There is little to no real leads Day Ones. But i am happy enough with my analysis of your behaviour to lock this vote in. It is not leaving without a claim.
CK believes real discussion requires claimed PRs. Therefore, if you purposefully slow down progress on getting a claim, you're stalling discussion. Since there is no town motivation to do this, implosion must be scum. CK believes there are little to no 'real' leads day one so this is a pretty substantial reason to votepark someone.
In post 56, Stormcloud wrote:I read through the thread twice assuming I was town!CK and scum!CK and I found the confidence he had really unnerving - perhaps I'm just a less confident player than him, but I don't like the sense of surety at all.
This doesn't feel like genuine reasoning to me. How do you know CK would play more confidently as scum? His confidence does make me feel like he truly believed in his case, though.

@Comm
In post 51, CommKnight wrote:As I said, I'm comfortable with my earlier analysis. Implosion is definitely worth looking into at this point. Although there are people who have yet to contribute and we'll see what happens with them.
Surely you're not refering to your initial analysis and vote on Implosion?
In post 46, Transcend wrote:Comm: even if i got ran up to L-1, i wouldn't claim there. The idea is to give scum as little info as possible because they already know everyone's alignment. So a claim from me isn't gonna help especially if I'm a very important role and being ran up for no reason.
How do you feel about this radical idea?

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Post Post #69  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:46 pm

My reasoning behind the confidence read was that scum are generally more confident in their reads (at least newer/easier to read scum, everything is possible to fake of course). I didn't like that CK seemed to think he had instantly caught a scum day 1 and stated that he wouldn't move his vote, ever. It just doesn't seem town to me. Call it gut, I guess.

Your explanation, if I understand correctly, is that CK believes implosion doesn't want a claim and thus is stalling discussion, and therefore implosion is scum. That's pretty believable, except that 4 or 5 different people then explained to CK why the whole early claiming thing is a bad idea, why it makes sense that implosion wouldn't want a claim this early, etc. From there, CK refused to move his vote and said he believes his early vote on implosion was correct, even when presented with the argument that implosion was not trying to deny town discussion at all and that not claiming is accepted amongst the majority of players in the game.

That said I can definitely see how Comm might just be misguided town. I'm not going to let go of my gut read on him that easily, but I don't wish to tunnel too hard. I'd like to see some involvement from other players on the issue.

This is your first non rvs post and I'm reading it as basically trying to get a read on me/interact with me, but this post reads very slightly like a) attacking comm's attacker and b) giving comm a chance to reevaluate/change his mind so you can townread him when he (perhaps) decides that his analysis was wrong. But, I don't want to jump to conclusions yet just based on a slight gut read, and I've heard associative reading on day 1 is bad for some reason.

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Post Post #70  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:01 pm

In post 13, KainTepes wrote:japan is an island by the sea nad it is BEAUTIFUL


making the government govern more,,
making the government more lke CHINA's government,, which is a goverment that governs more
I AM KAIN TEPES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"I am afraid of SAYING HIS NAME!!!!" - Toto
"why be a better mafia player, when you can be a better KAIN TEPES???" - Vi

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Post Post #71  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:49 pm

In post 69, Stormcloud wrote:Your explanation, if I understand correctly, is that CK believes implosion doesn't want a claim and thus is stalling discussion, and therefore implosion is scum. That's pretty believable, except that 4 or 5 different people then explained to CK why the whole early claiming thing is a bad idea, why it makes sense that implosion wouldn't want a claim this early, etc. From there, CK refused to move his vote and said he believes his early vote on implosion was correct, even when presented with the argument that implosion was not trying to deny town discussion at all and that not claiming is accepted amongst the majority of players in the game.
Not exactly. I'm disputing your reasoning for scumreading Comm. I explained that he is/was so confident about his read because he views the game differently from you and I. 1/2 of your reasoning was
In post 56, Stormcloud wrote:Town should be willing to change their mind - not easily or extremely often, but tunneling to the point of never claiming you'll never change your vote unless that person claims a role, on page 1 of the entire game, is a little odd.
However, in a Comm mindset, day one is not "real discussion" and there are "little to no real leads". Claiming must happen for discussion to take place, so there's no reason to vote differently. As long as he has that belief, this does not apply to him.
In post 69, Stormcloud wrote:I didn't like that CK seemed to think he had instantly caught a scum day 1 and stated that he wouldn't move his vote, ever. It just doesn't seem town to me. Call it gut, I guess.
Same goes for this.
In post 69, Stormcloud wrote:-this post reads very slightly like a) attacking comm's attacker and b) giving comm a chance to reevaluate/change his mind so you can townread him when he (perhaps) decides that his analysis was wrong.
Why would Comm backtracking on his stance give me a reason to townread him?

In any case, I'm much more in tune with your original read on him:
In post 53, Stormcloud wrote:NAI is currently how I'm reading CommKnight's views on claiming/RVS.

I think it's more of a culture difference than a scum claim atm.

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Post Post #72  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:09 pm

Surely you're not refering to your initial analysis and vote on Implosion?


This is what you said to Comm, referencing his statement that his initial read on implosion was correct. It seems like you couldn't believe that would be true and you're looking for him to change his views after implosion had a chance to respond. Which I agree with, I also want to hear what Comm's current views on implosion and the game in general are. I said you could potentially townread him if he backs off on this because it seems to me like you want him to back off on it (maybe I'm just getting a tone from your statement that you didn't intend).

My original read on his comments surrounding claiming/RVS hasn't changed, I don't think any of that is AI. He clearly does (or did) believe that claiming is ideal, but even within that worldview I still think parking your vote and declaring that it will never move on one person after that person's only posts in the game were an RVS vote and then an unvote and vote on you, is scummy. In that worldview where claims are ideal and implosion looks scummy for unvoting, I would have certainly voted him, poked at him, asked him why he unvoted, etc, but I just don't think a single action on day 1 should ever be enough for a town player to permanently scumread someone (which is what CK claimed he was doing). It's fine for CK to declare that he found that action scummy, to vote for implosion, all that is great (and in fact if that was all he had done I probably would town read him for it). But parking your vote on the first page and declaring you are doing so is just weird. He can have odd views on claiming and RVS, but I don't think parking your vote that early based on a single interaction is ever pro-town. What if CK comes to scumread someone else even more 7 pages later? Is he going to go back on what he said, or stick with his early read because he said he would?

I guess the tl;dr is that the vote locking is what pings me, not the fact that he was suspicious of implosion in the first place (that part makes total sense).

The scum radar that was annoying me about your first post has gone down considerably. Not sure why yet though.

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Post Post #73  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:25 pm

Although all this analysis has been interesting, I feel like I'm having a lot of trouble forming a solid read on anyone, even the most active players. Is this normal for this point in the game?

In real life, body language and tone obviously play a huge part in reads and taking those away is causing me to struggle a bit. I know it's just something to learn switching over but I feel kind of lost.

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Post Post #74  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:21 pm

K so long day at work quick thoughts before I go to bed.

I like Stormcloud. I like Tweet (I think).

I like implosion less, some things he said are making my spider senses tingle.

Kain read deteriorated somewhat. Still like Comm.

Will be more specific tomorrow, if I can be arsed.

P.S. Setup spec is worthless atm
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