Micro 687: Vanilluxe Mafia - Mafia Victory!!!

[Eddie Cane]

I'd care more to reply if you weren't probable scum . I strongly disagree with you anyways and think posting is alignment indicative despite what most of ms believes, from personal experience it can be a tell depending on the situation.

[TTTT]

@lowell
I kinda feel bad that nobody is listening to you
can you give me a concise case on GL?

[Eddie Cane]

if it comes down to it I'm voting gl over Lowell

[Fro99er]

I'd care more to reply if you weren't probable scum . I strongly disagree with you anyways and think posting is alignment indicative despite what most of ms believes, from personal experience it can be a tell depending on the situation.

So you think I'm scum for my posting habits, and you think it's remotely possible SBF is scum for her posting habits, which are different from mine.

Got it.

Also, this bullshit about not replying to me if I'm probable scum is ridiculous. We don't have any flips, it's day 1. If you're town, we need to be interacting with each other and with everyone else in the game so that we can get as many associatives and links out there as possible. You're not making it any easier for me to townread you. You know nothing about me, you've never played with me, you know ZERO of my posting habits. So stop acting like you're the fucking authority here and you get to refuse to work together with me because I'm actually a pretty fucking good town player. No, this isn't an ego thing. This is me saying you know jack shit about me so your refusal to work with me is pissing me the fuck off because I'm trying to find scum and you're making it impossible to help me figure out your reasons for your reads on players.

That's pure scum motivation.

[Fro99er]

SERIOUSLY HOW DO YOU PEOPLE NOT SEE THIS DUDE IS SCUM

[Eddie Cane]

you sound like you really need a smoke

[Fro99er]

I'm pretty sure scum is in 2 of Lowell, Eddie, and SBF

It could be bella but I'm feeling uneasy about that wagon the way only T was voting her, then suddenly my scum read (Lowell) decides to go for the easy target (Bella), and then another scumread piles on at L-1 and plays the "NOBODY HAMMER" card. Like anyone was going to hammer at L-1 without bella coming back.

[Eddie Cane]

I don't want to work with you because your posting is aggressive, spamming, obnoxious, and repetitive. I've replied to everything relevant, but it's giving me a headache and isn't worth it.

[Fro99er]

THAT'S MY PLAYSTYLE. YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT

You don't want to work with me because I'm your scumread. That's it. You said so before.

You haven't given me relevant reasons. You just say "they are producing good content" but you don't describe what is good about it or why.

[Fro99er]

good attitude, good content (with just about no filler), rubs me the right way.

the joking's great and all, but I was trying to engage with you and you just brushed me off with this.

why is "good attitude" important? I have a shit attitude as town sometimes. I know others do too.

what specifically about her posting rub you the right way?

good attitude does not mean literal "good attitude" as the dictionary defines it. I like her attitude in regards to the game, it's a tone type read though perhaps I should've clarified initially so my bad.

anyways, i have no intention of voting bella as it stands. I'll reread her I guess.

though I will say sbf sinks having literally 1% of all posts, granted with good quality in those

THIS is all you ever gave me about SBF. That's it. No reasons. Just "good quality" ... not WHY they are of good quality or WHAT about them specifically is good quality.

[Eddie Cane]

VOTE: GuiltyLion

This slot is what scum trying to pass as Town looks like. Opening posts were awkward and LAMIST. His SR on this slot lacks any semblance of authenticity and he basically just followed Cane. Most of his content consists of back-seat theorizing and ad-hoc hypothesis about what he or another would do as Y alignment, rather than actual hunting and sorting.

Cane is obviously Town by the way they've reacted to this slot. I appreciate the opening maneuver, having seen the follow-through.

I want to like Bellaphant for her reaction to the clumsy exchange between bork and GL, and her content has seemed fine overall to me, but Frog's case on her makes me tilt my head.

I like Space's initial response to GL, but the followup is too superficial and then quickly written off. I haven't seen the slot attempting to sort anyone in a serious way and the times it has given the appearance of doing so have been devoid of what I like to call the fire to find scum.

Town: Cane, bork, Frog, Low, 4T

Scum: GL, Space

@SBF: more specifically, what changed between 200 and now, considering I think Eddie's trajectory on you has not changed one iota since then and you don't seem to be townreading him for any other reason

Cane's opening was, as I see it, a reaction test. Scum love easy targets, and giving one to them is a very effective way to hunt.

What was awkward about them?

The tone. What else?

And are you calling it "LAMIST" literally just because I said "I'm town this time"? Because that's an

extreeeemely

weak case for LAMIST, and it looks to me like you just wanted to put the "scummy buzzword" in.

8 and 36 are both "me? scum? no way!", and your attempt to deflect this by calling the use of an abbreviation scummy is in fact a maneuver commonly used by scum to discredit those who bring cases against them. Buzzwords are actually only scummy when they're used in absence of a real argument, not as a way to succintly represent an argument, and in either case it isn't the word itself that is the issue.

Where did I even act like it was an "authentic scumread"? I saw someone lurking and not playing the game and I sheeped a townlean and voted them. I didn't write up a bunch of buzzwords and crap about how I thought you were scum.

Thank you for proving my point. I am your sole scum read in 169 and yet there was clearly no sincerity behind it. Now you are attempting to distance yourself from your prior stance while casting suspicion on my slot for unrelated content, also known as backpedalling and shading.

Like, this is something where you're describing my play but not actually pointing to why that makes me scum.

I am actually describing the things that I find scum motivated, contraposed with what I would find Town motivated. Your content has no significant Town motivation that I can detect. Your content is largely devoid of game-advancing material and is full of material that I find ultimately purposeless and distracting.

I feel this is the most disingenuous point of all. All of my "back-seat theorizing" and "hypothesis about what I would do as Y alignment" is entirely because people kept repeatedly pressing me on

how I had attempted to sort TTTT

. I'm answering multiple questions from eddie/bork/bella in those posts to explain my thought process and here you're pretending like I'm not doing anything else in between. I think anyone who was looking at my ISO with genuine intentions would see that I am making efforts to sort and probe people - take for example, my vote on you - and the way you're just handwaving a shitty summary of my play here reads extremely uncharitable to me.

Your way of justifying your reads has been so opaque and theoretical that the only way to find fault with them is by attacking their logic, which would be playing to your game by getting caught up in tortuous argumentation with no real end-point, and they are entirely devoid of actual serious comment on play in THIS game. They are superficial. Your vote on me was, as you have said, a sheep of your townlean. You did not back it up with anything, as Cane did. Your vote isn't even on me anymore.

VOTE: Lowell

I don't think town!Lowell would call me "opportunistic" here. It's simply not a meaningful or accurate description of my play, especially when the game is still early/halfway through D1, so I'm having a hard time seeing where he could be honestly coming from with that perspective.

I called you opportunistic, albeit without using the actual word, and you stated that my description of your play was essentially accurate ("you're describing my play"), if mistaken in the resulting conclusions. You have caught yourself in a trap. Despite finding fault with every part of my case against you and calling me scummy, you are now voting the slot that was previously a townlean over the slot that was previously a scumread. Voting Lowell here is a typical scum tactic, where you try to shed the negative attention on your slot onto another slot. You cannot keep your vote on me because by doing so Town's focus remains on our exchange, which is something scum!GL would never want but which town!GL would have no problem with. Again, you display no sincerity in your desire to sort slots.

How would you feel about an SBF lynch today?

If you are Town and believe that I am scum, you should aruge your case, not ask whether people are willing to lynch me.

I don't know. I want to see SBF's response to our questions about her Eddie read before making a full judgement, but I have a moderate scumread on her and think that lynch would do the least damage to town.

At this point my vote is probably going to stay between Lowell and SBF for the remainder of the day.

This is thoroughly anti-town behavior at best, very scummy at worst. They display no real interest in hunting scum or in sorting slots in a genuine way whatsoever.

Agree w/ GL 306 and 307

Please say more. This doesn't come close to cutting it.

I am going to continually fight you on an SS lynch and no one else agrees with you. This is a vanity lynch that you're not gonna get. Do something else.

How are you so certain in your Space read that you would WK them with Day 1 barely under way? I don't believe that Space is a vanity lynch and I would be perfectly willing to wagon the slot.

Spoiler: @bork

It might be barely underway for you, but I've been doing this for almost a week continually now and I like to think I have a good bead on at least a few slots.

I've been here the whole time.

134 i think shows she's continually questioning whether or not I am, as you say, WKing her (i generally see this used as a pejorative description of scum behavior) or i genuinely think she is town

Intention wasn't pejorative.

the sheer number of times either she or I have been about to post the exact same thing as each other leads me to believe we're thinking about the game in similar ways and hitting the same "this makes no sense / feels weird to me" type of notes. I think a scum player would have a hard time accidentally lucking into that.

I can appreciate that. Don't feel the same way at all, sorry.

sbf, you got any questions for me?

Why aren't you producing content? If you're Town, help me get a better read on you, because at the moment you're in my lynch pool.

Spoiler: @GL

You're arguing that it's scummy to not have a sincere and thorough scumread 160 posts in the game, which I find hard to believe. I had no townvibes whatsoever from your opening two posts, saw no evidence of game-solving, wanted you to get pressured/wagoned. That's entirely different from saying "I am very confident that SBF is scum", which feels like the arbitrary and disingenuous standard that you'ree trying to impose on me.

No townvibes = null. Significant scum vibes = SR. A SR is literally "I am confident this slot is scum". This is extremely straight-forward. There is meaningful contradiction in your stances and you can't talk your way out of this no matter how far you bend over backwards.

Your radar for Town motivation is either miscalibrated or not being used in this game, sorry. Talking to my townreads to try to get them to understand/townread me is not "purposeless".

I find your manner of discourse ultimately purposeless as the information provided by the exchanges does little to nothing to sort alignments according to any method of scumhunting I understand and it is far too early in the game to begin digesting reads with mutual TRs in the effort to reach compromise. There is simply no way to be sure enough in your reads on Day 1 for this and it is nonsensical to begin focusing on compromise when most of us have not even solidified our reads yet in the first place. Talking in this manner is, however, an excellent way to be TRed without actually producing content that advances the game state or roots out any scum. In short, your content lacks any meaningful Town motivation that I can detect.

Except I didn't ever

want

people to argue with my townreads, but I will always respond to questions about them. If you seriously think I was actively trying to draw out that discussion about my townread on TTTT then you should go back and read that entire exchange again. Every post I made with "theory" was in response to people asking me to explain myself. like I fucking knew as I was getting more and more drawn into answering all of the questions that someone was then going to try to push me on this. That's why I kept saying "i don't expect people to agree", "it's probably not intuitive", etc etc.

I didn't say that you were trying to draw out discussion about your reads. I said that your explanations of your reads are impermeable and any attempt to contest them on their own terms can only result in the questioner miring themselves in a bog of directionless argumentation.

And so what my vote isn't on you anymore? Why does that matter?

Because it makes no sense to move your vote off your SR immediately after finding fault in all of their content, and it makes less sense to vote the slot you previously townleaned because of an argument that your SR also made. If you weren't aware that I was calling you opportunistic I can only assume you were selectively reading my post.

No you didn't, if you called it opportunistic please show me where you did. And this entire section reads to me like you care more about "scoring points" in the argument about my alignment more than honestly and openly assessing my play and my alignment.

288: "His SR on this slot lacks any semblance of authenticity and he basically just followed Cane."

My read on Lowell changed because of his continued scumread on me for weak reasons. I changed the read. Why do you think that makes me scum, why is that something that cannot come from Town?

See above and my previous post for the answer.

a) I can and will put my vote wherever the hell I want, thank you
and b) I will continue responding to every single post you make, so don't give me this bullshit about "not wanting focus on our exchange".

Yes, you're forced to, given that I called you out. Changing your vote in the way you did strongly suggests that you wanted attention elsewhere, however. I don't believe that you lost your scumread on me after my post and gained a scumread on Lowell strong enough to warrant moving the vote, I believe that you moved your vote onto an easier target.

also it's generally just absolutely rich that someone with 5 posts total in the game is accusing me for not having "game advancing content" when I've been making an effort to interact with nearly every player

Shading my slot isn't going to help you.

like SBF's argument boils down to

1) GL voted me but didn't believe it
2) GL moved his vote off of me when I pushed back on him
3) he must be doing this because he doesn't want attention on me calling him out

1) is because it's early and I usually don't have much conviction in my scumreads early unless I find something extremely compelling, which hasn't happened this game
2) was due to the fact that I hated Lowell's reasons for scumreading/voting me and I did think SBF made a good point about SS which made me question whether they are operating from a town mindset
3) is just assumptions and completely made up

This is a pretty sad attempt at a misrep, honestly. The fact that you're appealing to others in this way is highly suspect.

I am not tring gl.

in his defense for that particular part though, you (sfb) had next to 0 content a decent way into the game. wagoning that is fine, especially if he townread me at the time of voting.

I wasn't taking issue with the vote, I was taking issue with the way it was done and what followed. I very much appreciate voting for pressure.

Cane is obviously Town by the way they've reacted to this slot. I appreciate the opening maneuver, having seen the follow-through.

Explain this further

I'll let Cane elaborate and will comment on any differences in what I perceived.

I like Space's initial response to GL, but the followup is too superficial and then quickly written off. I haven't seen the slot attempting to sort anyone in a serious way and the times it has given the appearance of doing so have been devoid of what I like to call the fire to find scum.

See that's the exact opposite with what I've seen from GL, at least with his push on me.

Explain how it was superficial. The "too quickly written off" is something that I typically see as a scum-scum interaction, or as town changing their minds. I'll need to read the interaction again.

It's the same kind of scum-scum possibility I got from bork and GL. A push, then a quick back off for what seemed like pretty superficial reasons. (Bork and GL have since both appeared town to me).

Read 222, 231, 246.

I almost feel like I

want

her to be scum even moreso than I actually think she is, because it's a really off-putting style of playing the game and if I'm lynched I don't see how she won't be the subsequent lynch.

I appreciate your point, but also kind of disagree. This should only happen if I'm pushing an agenda, not hunting. If my hunting finds scum then Town will notice. If you're lynched, it will be because of that. It takes several to lynch, not one. If you flip green and Town wants to scapegoat me for a bad read, that's their choice as well. If there are scum on your wagon, hunt them, don't rage about being pushed. That said, I've been looking for a specific towntell from you and I found it in this post, so thanks.


VOTE: Bellaphant

This is

L-1

. There will be no hammers. Anyone who hammers before we close in to deadline will lock themselves in as tomorrow's lynch regardless of flip.

Bellaphant, we need content from you. Don't wait for us to ask questions. There's a lot of content for you to go through and hunt for scum in. If you aren't sure where scum are, start asking questions about content that makes you unsure and go from there. Start conversation. To begin with, you can talk to me about your read on the people on your wagon.

Talk to me about your 4T read. Why are you voting him? What about his ISO is appalling to you? And what do you think about Cane's content since your 285? Talk to me about your Fro99er read.

do you want a line by line reply?? I don't have a computer, I don't usually type walls. how about you play the rest of the game exclusively from mobile and tell me how much you enjoy replying in fslth to someone obnoxious spamming you with 50 questions.

I'm not unvoting frogger

[Fro99er]

Yes, give me what you have on SBF.

Analyze her posts. Break them down.

Do it.

[Fro99er]

Eddie why are you scumreading me again?

Because I post a lot? Because I post intermittently?

What are your reasons?

[Eddie Cane]

Yes, give me what you have on SBF.

Analyze her posts. Break them down.

Do it.

You first. explain why "2 of us 3" are scum

[Eddie Cane]

Eddie why are you scumreading me again?

Because I post a lot? Because I post intermittently?

What are your reasons?

why are you scumreading me?

why are you townreading everyone except Lowell sbf and myself?

[Fro99er]

Look at eddie.

I ask him a question and he won't answer and then tries to make me answer the question despite me asking first.

This is pure scumfuckery.

[Eddie Cane]

look at frogger

when I start asking him the same tedious and annoying questions he's spamming me with he cops out

hey frogger answer those please! I know you're a self acclaimed great player so you should know that you analyzing sbf's posts should go completely differently seeing as you scumread her and I townread her. it's the same question that should have wildly different answers to both of us if you actually scumread her.

[Eddie Cane]

and answer them from mobile

[Lowell]

if it comes down to it I'm voting gl over Lowell

This guy gets it.

[Fro99er]

when I start asking him the same tedious and annoying questions he's spamming me with he cops out

no, I'm not copping out. I'll happily answer.

But you pulling this "you do it first" bullshit is fucking lame

[Fro99er]

For SBF go look at 585

that's all you need.

[Fro99er]

For you it's because your scum read of me is manufactured. Your read of me comes down to "you hate my posting style", "i posted too much about bella", and "i'm posting intermittently"

I'm also scumreading you because you did my scumtell, which I've used to great success. Unlike GL who actually analyzed my self-wifom as to why it might not be correct. You just took the lazy scum way and called me out for it.

[Fro99er]

Lowell's initial read on me was manufactured as well. He said "I don't give a shit about answers" when I clearly followed up on them.

His scum read on GL is crap, especially the part about GL trying to "pocket" SS...GL never tried to pocket SS, because GL didn't townread SS at that point!

He's called me out for reverse engineering some dumb meta shit, and I've already told him that's something I do almost every game.

Lowell do you have anything else besides "I don't give a shit about the answers" and my case on eddie around the wifom stuff, which I've demonstrated I do in basically every game?

Because you're not actually even pressuring me. Just giving two reasons but not actually trying to figure out if those reasons are alignment indicative for me. Sure the first reason could be alignment indicative, but I showed that I followed up on those answers to my questions, and you just dismiss it as gut. That second reason is just pigeon-holing my play into "reverse-engineered some dumb meta shit" as must be scum, when I've said (prior to that, and since then displayed) I do that as town quite frequently.

I don't think Lowell actually has a valid reason for scumreading me, and that sets off bells. He's just coming up with shallow reasons to scumread me.

[Fro99er]

why are you townreading everyone except Lowell sbf and myself?

I'm not townreading Bella. She's null for me, but I'm wary of the wagon on her.

[Fro99er]

Your turn.