Micro 687: Vanilluxe Mafia - Mafia Victory!!!

[Fro99er]

I liked bella early game (specifically her reasoning behind her initial thing between GL/me) although rereading 215 something that pings me is

seee, tonally I liked Lowell for town, but his post with his vote for me in it didn't look like it should end with a vote for me. but

VOTE: bella

Kara! Good to see you again. Sorry you flipped red this time.

is super tonally weird - kara is a reference to a recent survivor game, and i'd expect it to be an rvs reference, but then 'i flipped red'. ugh.

feels not genuine. ["I liked generally the tone of his posts. What I didn't like is this particular post where I didn't like his tone, the thing I just said I liked"] and it just reads instead to me like it's a combination of two dissonant parrots (the former of TTTT's 158 and the latter of Frogger's 121) instead of an organic read

I actually read that differently. She used the past tense "liked" Lowell for town. So originally she liked his tone, but then decided that post was tonally weird, so she (at the time of that post) currently no longer likes his tone. Hence the past tense.

[Fro99er]

thoughts on my case against frogger? any other game thoughts?

You v Frogger looks TvT. Given the content of your arguments I'd say its largely a clash of playstyles. I disagree with both of your cases but can see them coming from a town mindset.

UNVOTE:

looks like it's pretty clear Eddie isn't happening right now

[Fro99er]

no post has struck me as scummy. I haven't thought "this seems off, let me review bella". I don't keep notes or anyrhing like that, realllllly not my style.

That's strangely where I am with bella.

What seemed off was meta-based rather than actual scum motivation. I don't mind the pressure on her. It's warranted and hopefully helps us get a better read on her. Nothing she's really done has pushed the game significantly forward or showed a scum-hunting desire. Not even in her sarcastic manner that I love. Strictly conent-based, she's null for me.

Meta-based I haven't seen happy go lucky bella like from last game. But I haven't seen tryhard scum!bella either. I've just seen disinterested bella, which happens from time to time with her as town when she's getting scumread.

Also null for me, and that makes me both uneasy and bummed out at the same time. When we vibe together, we win. Sometimes in 9 pages.

[Fro99er]

Seems like he's trying to cash out on the 1v1 and move on.

that is entirely possible and i think that's a plausible reason for scum to eject here, i just think it shouldn't be discounted that the wagon is obviously not going anywhere and that's potential reasoning for town to eject here;

I guess I'm doing the same with Eddie.

[Fro99er]

i just don't really think she's trying to find scum

see this is the biggest issue i'm having with bella.

and there are some more-than-skin-deep inconsistencies that aren't temporal in nature

can you explain these? If its the tonal stuff i'm going to disagree.

[Eddie Cane]

good attitude, good content (with just about no filler), rubs me the right way.

the joking's great and all, but I was trying to engage with you and you just brushed me off with this.

why is "good attitude" important? I have a shit attitude as town sometimes. I know others do too.

what specifically about her posting rub you the right way?

good attitude does not mean literal "good attitude" as the dictionary defines it. I like her attitude in regards to the game, it's a tone type read though perhaps I should've clarified initially so my bad.

anyways, i have no intention of voting bella as it stands. I'll reread her I guess.

[Fro99er]

Here is my lowell read in a nutshell:
I tend to TR players who seem to be thinking independently
and don't appear to be

trying

to look town
lowell has that vibe going on

I think this is pretty towny from TTTT, unless he's scumbuddies with Lowell. Even if Lowell is scum TTTT could still be town. Basically, I see no scum motivation for TTTT to make this statement about a town!lowell.

[Fro99er]

Cane is obviously Town by the way they've reacted to this slot. I appreciate the opening maneuver, having seen the follow-through.

Explain this further

I'll let Cane elaborate and will comment on any differences in what I perceived.

Oh hell no. I asked YOU why that made Eddie town. I want YOUR reasons for townreading him.

[Fro99er]

I like Space's initial response to GL, but the followup is too superficial and then quickly written off. I haven't seen the slot attempting to sort anyone in a serious way and the times it has given the appearance of doing so have been devoid of what I like to call the fire to find scum.

See that's the exact opposite with what I've seen from GL, at least with his push on me.

Explain how it was superficial. The "too quickly written off" is something that I typically see as a scum-scum interaction, or as town changing their minds. I'll need to read the interaction again.

It's the same kind of scum-scum possibility I got from bork and GL. A push, then a quick back off for what seemed like pretty superficial reasons. (Bork and GL have since both appeared town to me).

Read 222, 231, 246.

Ok I thought you meant GL was backing off and didn't have fire, so I misread.

I see what you are saying about SS, but again I think this is a case where it's either a scum-scum interaction (backing off pre-emptively while feigning a brief scumread) or it's actually just SS letting his read develop naturally.

I think you're reaching here, especially saying SS hasn't tried to sort anyone all game.

[Lowell]

His entire case on me amounts to "Lowell thinks in extremes and said someone is null. CONTRADICTION!" I can make his case against me better than he can, and it only took me one sentence.

also, HERE is a good example of a misrep. The "null point" is honestly the least important and weakest part of my 'case' on Lowell (I also don't really feel it's a case, just a few succinct damning points). What Lowell omitted and ignored are the two better reasons that I already gave in thread:

1) I don't believe town!Lowell would consider my early D1 play - at the time of posting 279 - to be genuinely "opportunistic". I made one vote on SBF.
2) the description of me "pocketing SS" makes no sense either, and reads more like Lowell is trying to frame my behavior than interpret it

Bro, of course I'm trying to frame your behavior. I'm trying to get you lynched and no one listens to me. And yes, your vote on SBF was opportunistic. S/he had done nothing whatsoever at that point. Attacking a non-factor who can't fight back is the definition of opportunistic. Or the definition of something. Whatever, it's bad.

Yes, I'm late responding to this. Yes, I could easily move on. Probably will.

[Fro99er]

I kinda almost wonder if this "opening maneuver" wasn't planned out by Eddie/SBF

I'm not a huge fan of SBF's vote on bella being like "THIS IS L-1 BUT YOU ALL CANT HAMMER" ... it's really LAMIST. I appreciate trying to get bella to engage now. But SBF has a really weird progression on Bella, and it's making me think Bella is lynchbait

SBF's progression on bella:
288: "I want to like Bellaphant for her reaction to the clumsy exchange between bork and GL, and her content has seemed fine overall to me, but Frog's case on her makes me tilt my head."
379: "Why aren't you producing content? If you're Town, help me get a better read on you, because at the moment you're in my lynch pool."
569: The L-1

There's no actual scumread of Bella there, especially given I'm not even sure on my bella meta read which would negate 288 about my case on her. 379 just tells her to produce content, but doesn't give her anything to engage with other than saying "help me get a better read on you" ... then give her stuff to engage with! Ask her questions, tell her you'd like a specific read on a specific person from her. Anything but just saying "you're not doing anything so do something"

That's the really easiest way to appear to scumhunt without scumhunting. Like I said, bella's town meta is kind of disengaged, especially if she's not having fun or not being townread. I think my push on her possibly has soured her to this game. I don't know.

I admit. The L-1 is a good attempt to get bella to engage. But finally. It's just AFTER this wagon formed and while putting her at L-1. It just seems all too LAMIST to me and trying to be the town leader by someone who they themselves haven't been around much.

[Eddie Cane]

bork is clearly town leader and not sbf, it's crazy to suggest someome with 6 (lol) posts itt is leading town.

[Fro99er]

I'm not saying they are leading town. I'm saying they are trying to appear as if they are leading town with their L-1 statement.

[Fro99er]

Are you still voting me eddie?

who else do you scumread?

[Eddie Cane]

I agree the l-1 line is weird. why threaten to powerlynch someone who hammers? no shit we aren't going to roll over and let someone lol hammer, there's no trolls itg, it seems off.

[Eddie Cane]

I am still voting you and think people should join me!

[Fro99er]

who else are you scumreading?

[Eddie Cane]

I've quoted my reads list twice

[Fro99er]

bork

sbf (came back from being idle with a vengeance)

bella

Lowell

GuiltyLion
tttt

Sobolev
frogger

that you have, my bad.

[Eddie Cane]

though I will say sbf sinks having literally 1% of all posts, granted with good quality in those

[Fro99er]

post count and post frequency should not matter unless it is part of a person's town or scum meta.

[Eddie Cane]

1% of the posts in a 9 person game is not enough content

[Fro99er]

that doesn't make someone scum

Maybe it makes them useless. Maybe it means we can't let that person get to lylo. I dunno. But that doesn't make someone scum.

[Eddie Cane]

it also doesn't warrant being my second strongest town read.

[Fro99er]

right, and that's why bringing up the 1% of all posts stuff is stupid. Townread her for the content or scum read her for the content. Stop throwing around a bullshit reason to pretend she has even a remote reason to be scumread by you. That reeks of a S-S deal. Keep a townread, but throw something out that "stinks" but that isn't alignment indicative.