Micro 714: Vengeful Mafia Modified #4 [Game Over]

Micro Games (9 players or fewer). Archived during the 2023 queue overhaul.
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Post Post #125 (ISO) » Tue May 23, 2017 1:54 pm

Post by Tenshii »

Votecount 1.7[LYNCH] Transcend - BTD6_maker, Transcend, Draynth
[L-2] Something_Smart - Hiraki

Not voting: Something_Smart

With 5 alive, a majority vote is decided with 3 players.

Deadline: (expired on 2017-05-31 14:10:00)

Transcend is a
Day 1 Vengeful Townie
. He has (expired on 2017-05-25 18:00:00) to submit a vengekill target.

In post 85, BTD6_maker wrote:Mod, I will be V/LA until the 25th.
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Post Post #126 (ISO) » Tue May 23, 2017 3:15 pm

Post by Tenshii »

Transcend shoots Hiraki, a
Mafia Goon
.

Day 2 begins!


Votecount 2.0Not voting: Something_Smart, BTD6_maker, Draynth

With 3 alive, a majority vote is decided with 2 players.

Deadline: (expired on 2017-06-06 19:20:00)
In post 85, BTD6_maker wrote:Mod, I will be V/LA until the 25th.
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Post Post #127 (ISO) » Tue May 23, 2017 3:17 pm

Post by Something_Smart »

Draynth, explain that hammer.
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Post Post #128 (ISO) » Tue May 23, 2017 3:19 pm

Post by Something_Smart »

Like in all honesty I thought the team was Draynth/Hiraki and I still do but choosing between BTD6 and Hiraki would have been MUCH easier than choosing between BTD6 and Draynth.
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Post Post #129 (ISO) » Tue May 23, 2017 3:28 pm

Post by Something_Smart »

Also nice shot Transcend ofc. (Though IMO it would still have been better not to selfvote)
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Post Post #130 (ISO) » Tue May 23, 2017 10:23 pm

Post by Draynth »

In post 128, Something_Smart wrote:Like in all honesty I thought the team was Draynth/Hiraki and I still do but choosing between BTD6 and Hiraki would have been MUCH easier than choosing between BTD6 and Draynth.
Interesting how you thought that the scumteam was myself / Hiraki given I was your strongest townread up until that hammer.

Also interesting how you can think I'm scum over BTD who has been V/LA for the past 4 days, and who only posted 6/7 times before that.
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Post Post #131 (ISO) » Wed May 24, 2017 2:19 am

Post by Something_Smart »

We've already discussed how quickhammering is a scum move.

And sounds like YOU knew Transcend was going to flip town.
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Post Post #132 (ISO) » Wed May 24, 2017 2:51 am

Post by Something_Smart »

Please explain the hammer now.

Can you also tell me how afraid you were of getting vengekilled? (Both before the flip and after it)
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Post Post #133 (ISO) » Wed May 24, 2017 3:27 am

Post by Draynth »

In post 131, Something_Smart wrote:We've already discussed how quickhammering is a scum move.

And sounds like YOU knew Transcend was going to flip town.
What?
'It's also interesting how SS doesn't even entertain the possiblitity that Transcend is Scum, it's as if he knows that the flip will be town. Food for thought'.
I didn't know what the flip would be at this point, I highlighted the fact that you were convinced Transcend would flip Town.
In post 132, Something_Smart wrote:Please explain the hammer now.
I had a weird theory that you and Transcend were hard bussing each other. I've been playing this game like a normal game (Ie. that I'll have time to get lots of interactions / post-flip tells), where as I should be playing it purely on a 1/2 day basis. Based on that the theory seemed more likely than before, + I was tired of specifically asking Transcend to elaborate on his reads only for him to blatantly ignore me and vote himself.
In post 132, Something_Smart wrote: Can you also tell me how afraid you were of getting vengekilled? (Both before the flip and after it)
Why would I be scared?

It's frustrating that BTD isn't here
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Post Post #134 (ISO) » Wed May 24, 2017 3:28 am

Post by Draynth »

Also I'm happy to Sheep Transcend's reads
@BTD6_Maker
, Let me know when you want to vote SS.
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Post Post #135 (ISO) » Wed May 24, 2017 3:55 am

Post by Something_Smart »

In post 133, Draynth wrote: What?
'It's also interesting how SS doesn't even entertain the possiblitity that Transcend is Scum, it's as if he knows that the flip will be town. Food for thought'.
I didn't know what the flip would be at this point, I highlighted the fact that you were convinced Transcend would flip Town.
I wasn't convinced he would flip town. But if he was scum, then what I said post-hammer meant literally nothing; whereas if he was town, then it could be very important.
Your posts didn't seem to be reflecting the same mindset.
I had a weird theory that you and Transcend were hard bussing each other. I've been playing this game like a normal game (Ie. that I'll have time to get lots of interactions / post-flip tells), where as I should be playing it purely on a 1/2 day basis. Based on that the theory seemed more likely than before, + I was tired of specifically asking Transcend to elaborate on his reads only for him to blatantly ignore me and vote himself.
You thought we were hard bussing each other? Where did I even indicate that I was scumreading him?
Why would I be scared?

It's frustrating that BTD isn't here
Because you quickhammered, and we had already discussed that scum might quickhammer because even if they get killed it decreases town's EV from 50% to 33%.
And BTD6 is V/LA so there's no point complaining about him.
In post 134, Draynth wrote:Also I'm happy to Sheep Transcend's reads
@BTD6_Maker
, Let me know when you want to vote SS.
If you want to vote me you don't need BTD6's approval. Although you do need to explain why the hell you think the interactions between me and Hiraki were scum-scum...
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Post Post #136 (ISO) » Wed May 24, 2017 5:12 pm

Post by Tenshii »

Votecount 2.1Not voting: Something_Smart, BTD6_maker, Draynth

With 3 alive, a majority vote is decided with 2 players.

Deadline: (expired on 2017-06-06 19:20:00)
In post 85, BTD6_maker wrote:Mod, I will be V/LA until the 25th.
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Post Post #137 (ISO) » Thu May 25, 2017 3:59 pm

Post by Tenshii »

I'll be V/LA from Friday to Monday.

Any votecounts, flips, prods, etc. from me probably won't be prompt or cleanly formatted.
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Post Post #138 (ISO) » Thu May 25, 2017 10:23 pm

Post by BTD6_maker »

I am starting to suspect Draynth.

Of course, scum would quickhammer even if it gets them killed as they would do anything to avoid a Day 1 scum lynch. Scum need to take the opportunities. For example, if Draynth did not hammer (very soon after Transcend self-voted) that would run the risk of Transcend unvoting, in which case a Hiraki lynch was definitely possible. The Hiraki vote and unvote may be them just realising they can hammer, or it may be planned, to try to divert suspicion (Transcend Townread them, so even if they hammered they probably wouldn't die, and as we saw Transcend killed Hiraki instead).

Scum Draynth would be likely to pull off that hammer. I am wondering whether Town Draynth would do the same or not.
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Post Post #139 (ISO) » Fri May 26, 2017 1:24 am

Post by Draynth »

In post 138, BTD6_maker wrote:I am starting to suspect Draynth.

Of course, scum would quickhammer even if it gets them killed as they would do anything to avoid a Day 1 scum lynch. Scum need to take the opportunities. For example, if Draynth did not hammer (very soon after Transcend self-voted) that would run the risk of Transcend unvoting, in which case a Hiraki lynch was definitely possible. The Hiraki vote and unvote may be them just realising they can hammer, or it may be planned, to try to divert suspicion (Transcend Townread them, so even if they hammered they probably wouldn't die, and as we saw Transcend killed Hiraki instead).

Scum Draynth would be likely to pull off that hammer. I am wondering whether Town Draynth would do the same or not.
The main reason for the hammer was pure frustration towards Transcend. I voted Hiraki initially because that's who was number 1 on my lynch list, however since Transcend refused to answer any question I directed towards him I opted for the second on my list.
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Post Post #140 (ISO) » Fri May 26, 2017 2:32 am

Post by Something_Smart »

I thought it was because you thought Transcend was scum with me?
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Post Post #141 (ISO) » Fri May 26, 2017 6:28 am

Post by BTD6_maker »

In post 102, Draynth wrote:
In post 97, BTD6_maker wrote: I can understand the joke about "caught btd" but on reading again it seems slightly suspicious that he made it twice, as if he is trying to make too much out of it, reacting particularly strongly to a joke. This pings me slightly but I may be reading too much into this (as I may have been with seeing White Flag Gambits in the first few posts). Based on that, this is very weak but it is worth remembering in the future. I will say more later.
I look forward to this.
In post 97, BTD6_maker wrote: By the way, Draynth, I can understand what you mean about being suspicious of the pairing method. I suppose it does indeed work better the Townier the person making the pairing is (if Town makes pairings it benefits Town but if scum makes pairings is benefits scum). I suggested it because I know I am Town (and when it was developed, it was always the person who proposed the method who would exclude themselves) but ideally it would work best when done by someone who is Townread by everyone. In that case, everyone seems to Townread you so if you were pairing, who would you pair?
Ultimately the issue still remains that you 4 have no idea if I'm simply manipulating you by using numbers to trick you or not.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love for it to be this simple and I just list two pairs and we vote someone and that settles it, but I think it would be unfair.

The game has drawn to a standstill because SS/Hiraki are arguing over a point which is fundamentally useless to argue over, and Transcend / BTD6 are pretty much only responding when they are specifically referenced (With the exception of Transcend's post(s) a day or two ago) although BTD6 is V/LA so it's understandable. I'm not gonna call people out for lurking when they've got stuff going on IRL.

I'm going to post a full readslist and I want people to engage with it; tell me if they agree and why and if they disagree and why.
Draynth refused the pairing method even if they got to make the pairings. I see this as a Townish response. Scum would probably be likely to set up pairings without any further comments (if Town makes pairings it benefits Town but if scum makes pairings it benefits scum) whereas Town is likely to be more cautious and suspicious, thinking that even if they are Town we do not know that, and thus we will suspect them. Draynth's response reads like a cautious Townie who is being aware of people who may be trying to manipulate them and also bearing in mind that others will also be suspicious of people they think are trying to manipulate them. Scum Draynth would probably refuse pairings which they know are detrimental to scum, claiming suspicion, and then being OK with pairings when made by themselves as they are "confirmed" to themselves.
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Post Post #142 (ISO) » Fri May 26, 2017 8:36 am

Post by Draynth »

In post 140, Something_Smart wrote:I thought it was because you thought Transcend was scum with me?
That was mostly to see how you would react actually
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Post Post #143 (ISO) » Sat May 27, 2017 5:02 am

Post by Something_Smart »

:igmeou:
So what did you learn from the reaction?
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Post Post #144 (ISO) » Sun May 28, 2017 11:27 am

Post by Draynth »

In post 143, Something_Smart wrote::igmeou:
So what did you learn from the reaction?
Not a whole lot, I mostly wanted to see whether you would flat out call it crap or if you would try to prove it was crap.

Anyway,
@BTD6_Maker

Right now I believe you to be town over Something_Smart, so what are your thoughts at this point?
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Post Post #145 (ISO) » Sun May 28, 2017 11:39 am

Post by BTD6_maker »

In post 144, Draynth wrote:
In post 143, Something_Smart wrote::igmeou:
So what did you learn from the reaction?
Not a whole lot, I mostly wanted to see whether you would flat out call it crap or if you would try to prove it was crap.

Anyway,
@BTD6_Maker

Right now I believe you to be town over Something_Smart, so what are your thoughts at this point?
At this stage I am somewhat suspicious of both of you, but I currently suspect SS over you. Either of you could be scum, but SS seems more likely. This is partly due to the interactions with Hiraki. It is certainly possible that the "discrediting" argument was staged, and it could easily have been planned as Mafia have daytalk. Hiraki voted SS. Again, this could be a setup for a White Flag Gambit as here Hiraki was voting SS throughout Day 1. In general, White Flag Gambits are not that useful when you do them for a very short amount of time, but if done for a long period of time they can be effective. (This is why the possible White Flag Gambits near the start were all only very weakly AI). No one else voted SS so there was not that much risk. According to game theory, optimally scum will bus less often than randomly so voting scum is slightly Townish but on this site scum tend to bus more often than optimally.
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Post Post #146 (ISO) » Sun May 28, 2017 12:34 pm

Post by Something_Smart »

Why would Hiraki and I start a fight there? If Transcend hadn't self voted the lynch would have probably landed on one of us.
Also, do you think the Transcend wagon had no scum on it?
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Post Post #147 (ISO) » Sun May 28, 2017 12:48 pm

Post by Something_Smart »

Like, Occam's razor. From either of your perspectives, the scum is either someone who interacted minimally with flipped scum or someone who started and escalated a major fight with him. Now I'm not saying that it's impossible for scum to do that but it's absurd to use that interaction as a reason to scumread me.

Like you're both scumreading me for dumb reasons and it's really not helping me sort you. I thought for sure Draynth was scum after his textbook scum argument but BTD6 pushing me not DESPITE my interactions with Hiraki but BECAUSE of them is annoying as all hell.

If I had to decide now, I'd decide Draynth because of the hammer for which his explanation is lacking and quite scummy. (He doesn't even seem to have been scumreading Transcend.) Not to mention that he essentially backtracked on the reason for it.

That said I'm not going to decide now, but if either of you want to vote me, I'd very much prefer that you double-check your role PM and make sure it's red before doing so.
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Post Post #148 (ISO) » Sun May 28, 2017 12:59 pm

Post by Draynth »

cool

VOTE: Something_Smart

BTD, If you need further convincing that SS is scum just look through his iso. After Hiraki questioned the townread that Transcend had on him at the start of the game, he hard tunnelled on him for, quite frankly, a crappy reason. Above he says that this isn't a good reason to scumread him, I completely disagree. It's too convenient.

Objectively speaking SS hasn't done any proactive scum hunting this game. He argued with Hiraki for like 15 posts and then started screaming that I was scum after the hammer; He barely commented on anyone else. He tried to pressure Transcend into shooting me even though he was being scumread by all of the active players at the time.

Anyway, take your time with this, ask more questions if you need to.
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Post Post #149 (ISO) » Sun May 28, 2017 1:00 pm

Post by Draynth »

If BTD is actually scum here then I'm gonna be so sad
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