Micro 714: Vengeful Mafia Modified #4 [Game Over]

[Draynth]

You're saying that Transcend is wrong to scumread BTD6 for 'not voting off of pre-flip associations.' . Am I right or wrong with that understanding?

You are correct. There is no valid reason to SR someone for conjecture only if they act on said conjecture.

Isn't he though? The pairs he made were 1)Transcend / Me 2) Something_Smart / Hiraki.

At the time BTD6 townread me, therefore by his pairing method (ie. pre-flip association) he thinks Transcend is scum. He votes him, ignoring the other pair entirely.
His White Flag Gambit point is shaky at best, so his main reasoning must be this pairing.

This has nothing to do with playstyle, it makes you seem like you're not bothered actually making a valid argument since you just play it off by being sarcastic.

I'm arguing with you no?

How on earth do you argue with someone who says "you're doing X" when you're CLEARLY not doing it and whatever your doing (i.e. asking a question) has literally ZERO scum implications?

Do you just tell him nicely that he's wrong or do it my own way? I'll pick the latter tyvm

Bolded is irrelevant, I'm not talking about your argument with Something_Smart

You buddied up to BTD despite the fact that Transcend didn't mention him at all.

Yeah,

I'll throw away the running gag based on who I'm talking to

- seriously?

BTD hadn't made a single post at this point.
The first post you mentioned BTD was talking to me, the second was talking to Transcend.
Scum have day talk, what's the likelihood this was a scum slip?

[Hiraki]

BTD hadn't made a single post at this point.
The first post you mentioned BTD was talking to me, the second was talking to Transcend.
Scum have day talk, what's the likelihood this was a scum slip?

What??????????? You literally said - AS A JOKE - the following:

well that settles it then, BTD and Hiraki are confirmed scum

I then CONTINUED the joke by saying that me and BDT were caught scum once Transcend's reasons for voting me became:

he isn't town

I don't even know HOW you can say that I scumslipped by saying someone else's name when YOU were the one who implied, AS A JOKE, that scenario in the first place.

Bolded is irrelevant, I'm not talking about your argument with Something_Smart

Then what are you talking about? Because now this is starting to get both annoying and dumb.

[Draynth]

BTD hadn't made a single post at this point.
The first post you mentioned BTD was talking to me, the second was talking to Transcend.
Scum have day talk, what's the likelihood this was a scum slip?

What??????????? You literally said - AS A JOKE - the following:

well that settles it then, BTD and Hiraki are confirmed scum

I then CONTINUED the joke by saying that me and BDT were caught scum once Transcend's reasons for voting me became:

he isn't town

I don't even know HOW you can say that I scumslipped by saying someone else's name when YOU were the one who implied, AS A JOKE, that scenario in the first place.

Overall it just seems weird how much you wanted it to seem like you were joking. It just seems forced is all.

Bolded is irrelevant, I'm not talking about your argument with Something_Smart

Then what are you talking about? Because now this is starting to get both annoying and dumb.

I'm talking about the fact that you've been sarcastic in virtually every post you've made so far, but as you said earlier it's just your playstyle so whatever I guess.

[Draynth]

@BTD6, what are your thoughts at this point in the game, ignoring your pairing method?

[Draynth]

EBWOP: Excluding, not ignoring*

[Draynth]

@Transcend, what is your case against Hiraki and why should we think he is scum?

[Something_Smart]

Yes, that's exactly right. To disagree with something that you don't understand, without trying to understand it, is discrediting.

I disagree with this.

If a scientific paper / study is discredited, it means that it has been proven to be false, not that someone went 'I don't think he's right and I don't care what evidence he has'.

Does that make sense?

Also pretty sure Hiraki was being sarcastic again in his last post, which is becoming increasingly annoying

You're not wrong. However in my experience on this site discrediting has been taken to mean trying to shoot something down or imply it's invalid without a good reason. What Hiraki did was essentially to make the claim that there is no possible basis for a legitimate townread on me (and yes Hiraki it is possible to make an implicit claim by asking a question), which, if accepted, would eliminate any and all townreads on me. That, to me, is discrediting, and if you want to use a different word for it then feel free.

Hiraki pings me

what do you mean by that?

I didn't like how he was discrediting Transcend's townread on me.

Do you see this as an inherently scummy thing to do?

Yes, because it represents a mindset of exclusively persuasion rather than one of game-solving. (Not to mention that the read he was discrediting was RIGHT, making it even more likely to be scum motivated, though of course you don't have to share that viewpoint.)

[Hiraki]

Something is actually trying to push me for asking about a townread and for asking a question, I'm also implying that the read is bad and therefore asking a question that I don't want the answer to.

This is faked scumhunting.

[Tenshii]

Votecount 1.4

[L-2] Transcend - BTD6_maker
[L-2] Hiraki - Transcend
[L-2] Something_Smart - Hiraki

Not voting: Draynth, Something_Smart

With 5 alive, a majority vote is decided with 3 players.

Deadline: (expired on 2017-05-31 14:10:00)

[Draynth]

VOTE: BTD6_maker

[BTD6_maker]

Phone posting.

Mod, I will be V/LA until the 25th.

Anyway, I will analyse Hiraki today.

[Something_Smart]

therefore asking a question that I don't want the answer to.

Please show where I claimed this.

[Transcend]

Holy fuck

Almost got prodded in a 5 player game.

[Transcend]

Let's just speed this up

[Transcend]

Ss are you gonna vote Hiraki or is he doing a bullshit white flag gambit

[Transcend]

VOTE: BTD6_maker

No

Not today

[Transcend]

I'm trying to get better at reading btd6 because I've read him wrong in just about every single game

This play reminds me of one of the only games I townread him correctly in

[Tenshii]

Votecount 1.5

[L-2] Transcend - BTD6_maker
[L-2] Hiraki - Transcend
[L-2] Something_Smart - Hiraki
[L-2] BTD6_maker - Draynth

Not voting: Something_Smart

With 5 alive, a majority vote is decided with 3 players.

Deadline: (expired on 2017-05-31 14:10:00)

Mod, I will be V/LA until the 25th.

[Draynth]

VOTE: BTD6_maker

No

Not today

Reasoning behind the disagreement? What exactly about his play so far reminds you of the time you correctly townread him?

[Transcend]

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=71096

Read his iso in this game then read his iso in this game. Don't they kinda parallel?

[Draynth]

I guess, my concern is that A) I don't like using someone's meta, I think it's too easily manipulated and B) Both that game and his points this game have been statistically based, not necessarily based on scumhunting. In my opinion this is quite easy to replicate given it doesn't matter who the players are / what their playstyles.

My overall reasoning behind voting BTD6 is twofold.
1) His pairing method conveniently clears him of being scum if we are to use it. It feels like he is trying to lead the town on a merry chase while staying out of the spotlight himself.
2) He has only been posting when he directly is asked a question / is pressured. However, with that being said, he has since declared V/LA so I'm not sure what to make of this part right now.

[Transcend]

Btd is a low poster in all games so i can verify that

Yeah the pairing method is bad and I'm not gonna use it but i don't know think it's bad scum. I think it's town trying out a strategy.

I can kinda see how he thought my vote on ss could have been a wfg, but it wasn't. He's also misread me in every game. The thing is, he uses misreading me to his advantage when he's scum to parallel his town play. So I'm dismissing him reading me wrong as null and then the rest of his game as town.

[BTD6_maker]

how do you TR Something??? draynath i get but something???

*ping*

no, i was asking a question - fuq off wit ur pings

he isn't town

caught, gg btd, we tried so hard :'(

Are you going to explain how you TR Something then?

I can understand the joke about "caught btd" but on reading again it seems slightly suspicious that he made it twice, as if he is trying to make too much out of it, reacting particularly strongly to a joke. This pings me slightly but I may be reading too much into this (as I may have been with seeing White Flag Gambits in the first few posts). Based on that, this is very weak but it is worth remembering in the future. I will say more later.

By the way, Draynth, I can understand what you mean about being suspicious of the pairing method. I suppose it does indeed work better the Townier the person making the pairing is (if Town makes pairings it benefits Town but if scum makes pairings is benefits scum). I suggested it because I know I am Town (and when it was developed, it was always the person who proposed the method who would exclude themselves) but ideally it would work best when done by someone who is Townread by everyone. In that case, everyone seems to Townread you so if you were pairing, who would you pair?

[Hiraki]

My computer is being a fickle asshole this evening to the point where I literally have a post written out but I just cannot connect to the internet. Formatting won't be great but this computer is an official dump now

@something - you said it in post 81 starting from "What Hiraki...all townreads on me."

I'd also like to point out in hindsight that S_S cares so much about me criticizing the TRs on him in post 81. When does that train of thought come from town?

[Something_Smart]

98% of the time.