Micro 713: 5p Vengeful (Endgame)
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In post 27, Infinity 324 wrote:Why won't that help us form reads?- Tenshii
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Mechanically speaking, self-lynching for the vig shot makes a vengeful one of the only setups where it's even plausible, but I still don't like it, and it still is more likely a scum gambit than a town one.In post 19, Tenshii wrote:I mean, do you?
Assuming he's invested into playing to his wincon, I can't see why town would offer a self lynch.
Congrats, you've done it before. I'd recommend not doing so. I dunno where else you play, but here on MS, its highly frowned upon. Also, what sort of wording is the bolded?In post 20, Vijarada wrote:like i can find you examples of me self-voting as town. i'm not offering myself as a lynch, just saying it gets good reactions. Apparently even threatening it does.I don't want to die here as scum either, lol.- A Simple Plan
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In post 26, Vijarada wrote:Because you guys were like "why the fuck would you say that" "100% this" "if he's town, he's playing against his wincon" "FOS vij, he's bluffing having a vengeshot" (FOS I Havent seen in years so thanks for making me laugh). You guys went in real hard.
In any instance, town want to stay alive so as to prevent scum from getting closer to the majority. A self-vote here is highly frowned upon, and you will get lynched for it quickly (see your linked game), so as town it's decidedly against win condition to vote for yourself. We can debate this all you want, but a mechanic issue isn't going to get us very far as far as solving this game.In post 29, Vijarada wrote:what have i done against town wincon?
Where's the other dude?- Infinity 324
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Here's how I see what happened so far:
vij makes a joke about self-voting, or at least he says it was a joke. Me and ASP ask why he would self-vote, he answers because he wants a reaction and a quickwagon. Tenshii finds this suspicious because it's only 3 to lynch so it doesn't make sense in the context of this game. Vij now says it was a joke and he think we were making too big of a deal out of it.
Vij, why didn't you say that it was a joke in 16. ASP, what's your read on vij?- Infinity 324
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Asking about 13 is pretty reasonable imo. I think someone's rationale for wanting to self vote in RVS (whether it's XD I'm trolling!!! or what's contained in 16) can be AI.
I don't understand 17 from ASP.
Reading 18 makes me think Infinity didn't understand 17.
Tenshii 19 is a fallacy.
Infinity 23 is a fallacy.
Town lean on Vijaranda for 24.
Infinity 25 contains a huge assumption about 24.
Agree with Vijaranda 26.
I don't understand what 27 is responding to. And 28 feels really misguided.
Tenshii 31 is not accurate. Pondering the idea of self voting is not self voting.
ASP 32 but he didn't self vote.
ASP 33 I don't understand why this post makes it seem like the debate is about whether or not to self vote.
Infinity 34 is not accurate at all, at least in my opinion.
Infinity 35 seems to align with my assessment of 33 and my Vij read.Players I admire: Thor665, Lapsa, RC- MortFeld
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Do you think it was only a joke, or was it a joke + also purposeful?In post 34, Infinity 324 wrote:Here's how I see what happened so far:
vij makes a joke about self-voting, or at least he says it was a joke.
This would imply that it's not only a joke, no?In post 34, Infinity 324 wrote:Me and ASP ask why he would self-vote, he answers because he wants a reaction and a quickwagon.
Do you disagree? In an objective sense, do you think this squabbling about whether Vij is playing against his win con can actually help determine Vij's alignment? Do you think it's relevant that Vij did not self vote?In post 34, Infinity 324 wrote:Tenshii finds this suspicious because it's only 3 to lynch so it doesn't make sense in the context of this game. Vij now says it was a joke and he think we were making too big of a deal out of it.This question answers itself if you read 16 and 20.
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I can't parse any of that since you're not explaining, you're just saying "this is wrong, this assumes something, etc." and I don't understand what is wrong or what I am assuming.
PEdit: He didn't say it was also purposeful, so I assumed it was just a joke. I thought him saying something about a reaction was just a general comment about how he selfvotes sometimes.
It could have been purposeful as well, but because vij didn't follow up or analyze anyone's reactions, I highly doubt it.
I don't think the squabbling is super useful to determine vij's alignment specifically but I think it's useful in general to get people talking and potentially form reads from there.- Infinity 324
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Well it's not really for you to parse. But I can explain things if you want me to.In post 39, Infinity 324 wrote:I can't parse any of that since you're not explaining, you're just saying "this is wrong, this assumes something, etc." and I don't understand what is wrong or what I am assuming.
I call BS.In post 39, Infinity 324 wrote: PEdit: He didn't say it was also purposeful, so I assumed it was just a joke. I thought him saying something about a reaction was just a general comment about how he selfvotes sometimes.
Vij is saying 2 things.In post 20, Vijarada wrote:like i can find you examples of me self-voting as town. i'm not offering myself as a lynch, just saying it gets good reactions. Apparently even threatening it does. I don't want to die here as scum either, lol.
1. Vij believes that self voting generates good reactions in RVS.
2. Vij believes that threatening self voting in this game generated good reactions.
Why are you playing it off as "Oh Vij you were just joking! Well why didn't you say that??" when it's clear Vij's threatening to self vote had a purpose?
But Vij did follow up and analyze people's reactions in 26.In post 39, Infinity 324 wrote: It could have been purposeful as well, but because vij didn't follow up or analyze anyone's reactions, I highly doubt it.Where in 26 does Vijaranda say anything about you forming reads? 26 is about the severity of people's analysis of the self vote threaten, it is neither incompatible with nor relevant to the idea that people's analysis doesn't help them form reads.
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Why would you say it if it's not for people to read and understand?In post 41, MortFeld wrote:
Well it's not really for you to parse. But I can explain things if you want me to.In post 39, Infinity 324 wrote:I can't parse any of that since you're not explaining, you're just saying "this is wrong, this assumes something, etc." and I don't understand what is wrong or what I am assuming.
Because I don't think it had a purpose. The fact that he says "apparently" means he didn't really consider the fact that threatening to self-vote would generate good reactions when he did it. If the whole thing was a reaction test, again, vij would've analyzed the reactions and their implications for his reads.
I call BS.In post 39, Infinity 324 wrote: PEdit: He didn't say it was also purposeful, so I assumed it was just a joke. I thought him saying something about a reaction was just a general comment about how he selfvotes sometimes.
Vij is saying 2 things.In post 20, Vijarada wrote:like i can find you examples of me self-voting as town. i'm not offering myself as a lynch, just saying it gets good reactions. Apparently even threatening it does. I don't want to die here as scum either, lol.
1. Vij believes that self voting generates good reactions in RVS.
2. Vij believes that threatening self voting in this game generated good reactions.
Why are you playing it off as "Oh Vij you were just joking! Well why didn't you say that??" when it's clear Vij's threatening to self vote had a purpose?
But he didn't talk about whether it lead to a read on anyone, so I doubt that's what he was going for.But Vij did follow up and analyze people's reactions in 26.
26 implies everyone was too aggressive and that didn't help anyone. 27 is pointing out that that will help us form reads.
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I'm trying to work that one out. Gut lean town, but I want an answer to my 32. "I don't want to die here as scum..." is a very interesting way of phrasing things. I don't want to think this game will come down to a scumslip like that, but I want to know what the hell was meant by it.In post 34, Infinity 324 wrote:Vij, why didn't you say that it was a joke in 16. ASP, what's your read on vij?
I could go for a Mort lynch. Recent posts look more like busy-work than actual scumhunting. And re: 37, yeah you. Forgot your name.- Vijarada
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I don't want to die here as scum just means if I'm scum here, which I'm not, I also don't want to be lynched. So that post was playing to no scum wincon. You guys are jumping on...the dumbest things. I also laughed at the incredibly patronizing post which said "Idk where you've played before but here self-voting is frowned upon" as if my first game here wasn't three years ago and as if you weren't completely wrong. An RVS self-vote is a great way of generating reactions and early RVS wagons on day 1, and are not quicklynch fodder (unless the scum quickhammer you in a setup where it's advantageous to do so). Like, obviously self-hammering or voting on your own large wagon is frowned upon.
Anyway that's all besides the point at this time. I think Mort for breaking what was going on before is possibly town. I kinda want to lynch ASP? He was like "yes 100% agree" and then he went quiet for a while and just started agreeing later. Like he wasn't actually pushing me. Idk it could be ASP mort so scum were on both sides of that argument. Not sure yet. But it's a distraction.get a warrant- MortFeld
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I think I was specifically talking about the parts of 36 about you.In post 42, Infinity 324 wrote:
Why would you say it if it's not for people to read and understand?In post 41, MortFeld wrote:
Well it's not really for you to parse. But I can explain things if you want me to.In post 39, Infinity 324 wrote:I can't parse any of that since you're not explaining, you're just saying "this is wrong, this assumes something, etc." and I don't understand what is wrong or what I am assuming.
This is quite an assumption, especially given that it was basically RVS. What kind of reads were you looking for?In post 42, Infinity 324 wrote:
But he didn't talk about whether it lead to a read on anyone, so I doubt that's what he was going for.But Vij did follow up and analyze people's reactions in 26.
No. 26 implies that you, Tenshii, ASP went in too hard. You're reading different posts than I am, apparently.In post 42, Infinity 324 wrote:26 implies everyone was too aggressive and that didn't help anyone. 27 is pointing out that that will help us form reads.
Also why is your formatting impossible to quote? Jesus.Players I admire: Thor665, Lapsa, RC- MortFeld
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1. Scum would also have no reason to offer a self lynch.In post 19, Tenshii wrote:I mean, do you?
Assuming he's invested into playing to his wincon, I can't see why town would offer a self lynch.
2. He didn't offer a self lynch. He contemplated one.Oh and EBWOP.
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What is this shade? And apparently focusing pretty much exclusively on whether or not self voting is playing against one's win con is actual scumhunting.In post 44, A Simple Plan wrote:
I could go for a Mort lynch. Recent posts look more like busy-work than actual scumhunting. And re: 37, yeah you. Forgot your name.In post 34, Infinity 324 wrote:Vij, why didn't you say that it was a joke in 16. ASP, what's your read on vij?Players I admire: Thor665, Lapsa, RC- Infinity 324
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I wasn't looking for anything in particular wrt reads, but it makes zero sense to do a reaction test and then not get anything out of it and not say so.In post 46, MortFeld wrote:
I think I was specifically talking about the parts of 36 about you.In post 42, Infinity 324 wrote:
Why would you say it if it's not for people to read and understand?In post 41, MortFeld wrote:
Well it's not really for you to parse. But I can explain things if you want me to.In post 39, Infinity 324 wrote:I can't parse any of that since you're not explaining, you're just saying "this is wrong, this assumes something, etc." and I don't understand what is wrong or what I am assuming.
This is quite an assumption, especially given that it was basically RVS. What kind of reads were you looking for?In post 42, Infinity 324 wrote:
But he didn't talk about whether it lead to a read on anyone, so I doubt that's what he was going for.But Vij did follow up and analyze people's reactions in 26.
No. 26 implies that you, Tenshii, ASP went in too hard. You're reading different posts than I am, apparently.In post 42, Infinity 324 wrote:26 implies everyone was too aggressive and that didn't help anyone. 27 is pointing out that that will help us form reads.
Also why is your formatting impossible to quote? Jesus.
You say it's talking about how ASP, tenshii, and me went in too hard. I say it's about how we were too aggressive. That's the same thing. I responded by saying it wasn't too aggressive since te aggression helps us get reads. - Infinity 324
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