RadiantCowbells wrote:
It's not because it's you it's because I feel like you're wrong in a lot of the ways that towns on this site are systemically wrong
Probably yeah
Does this circle to how you were saying towns give players passes cause they angry post. I thought that's what this whole slot's read was about.
In post 155, Writers Bloque wrote:
Not enough to foster a hard scumread on him right now. But the way he's playing opens him up if he's scum so I'm not really concerned?
I meant what I said about him. Basically if you rely on angry tone you're going to out yourself because there's not enough "fuck"s you can put inside of a post to cover up a faulty push or a stance no matter how convincing you appear
You say this but why do players like myself, Frozen Angel, LLD consistently have some of the best success rates in terms of being townread on site?
I'm not saying it like that's the way it is so your statement isn't true
I'm saying it like that's how it is. It doesn't change that people are very susceptible to emotional plays
RadiantCowbells wrote:
It's not because it's you it's because I feel like you're wrong in a lot of the ways that towns on this site are systemically wrong
Probably yeah
Does this circle to how you were saying towns give players passes cause they angry post. I thought that's what this whole slot's read was about.
In post 155, Writers Bloque wrote:
Not enough to foster a hard scumread on him right now. But the way he's playing opens him up if he's scum so I'm not really concerned?
I meant what I said about him. Basically if you rely on angry tone you're going to out yourself because there's not enough "fuck"s you can put inside of a post to cover up a faulty push or a stance no matter how convincing you appear
You say this but why do players like myself, Frozen Angel, LLD consistently have some of the best success rates in terms of being townread on site?
I'm not saying it like that's the way it is so your statement isn't true
I'm saying it like that's how it is. It doesn't change that people are very susceptible to emotional plays
I just feel like people are consistently unable to actually read angry plays and they assume town because they can't read them.
I mean I read through the neighbourhoods and I got called annoying a few times because I was really sure that Jason was scum because they did scummy shit and I'd like to help everyone learn better!
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
In post 436, Sobolev Space wrote:Damn glad I had the guilty because everyone started scumreading me over night.
Ari if you're going to rerun the setup I have a suggestion about how to randomize the neighbors to avoid the kind of stuff we saw this time. Its a little mathy though. I don't think you should exclude mafia from being neighbors or else a scum flip clears two people.
I'm in! Hit me up with yo maths!
Also, I agree on the scum with scum possibility being necessary, thus it's inclusion!
In post 439, MarioManiac4 wrote:I think this game needs shorter deadlines at the Night. Day neighbouring would be helpful, as well.
In post 455, Aristophanes wrote:I'm in! Hit me up with yo maths!
Also, I agree on the scum with scum possibility being necessary, thus it's inclusion!
The idea is that you first randomize an order for the player list (for example, first pick a random number from 1 to 9 and use that to choose the first player, then from 1 to 8 to choose the next player (excluding the player already chosen) etc.) until you get some random list like:
MM4
Ircher
Treble
WB
SS
Gamma
Edos
beeboy
ZZZX
Then you assign neighborhoods by making everybody's neighbor the person below them on the list (and the neighbor of the last person is the first person). So in this example you would get neighborhoods {MM4, Ircher}, {Ircher, Treble}, {Treble, WB}, {WB, SS}, {SS, Gamma}, {Gamma, Edos}, {Edos, beeboy}, {beeboy, ZZZX}, and {ZZZX, MM4}. The advantages of doing it this way are (i) you're guaranteed you won't get a situation like this game where two hoods are composed of the exact same people and (ii) the hoods are completely connected at nights (i.e. if I tell one of my neighbors something and tell them to pass it on, it will eventually get back to me and everybody in the playerlist will know it).
Spoiler: Mathy stuff
Basically the assignment of neighborhoods can be viewed as a permutation of the playerlist - that is a function that maps each player to another player such that every player is mapped uniquely - under the function that maps a player to the person who is in their neighborhood (like I would be mapped to Mario in this game). Now all permutations are composed of cycles - an n-cycle basically means that starting at one person we have to go through n different people to get back to the original person. For example, in this game we had a 7-cycle (I neighbored mario neighbored edos neighbored treble neighbored ZZZX neighbored Ircher neighbored Gamma neighbored me) and a 2-cycle (beeboy neighbored WB neighbored beeboy). Since there are 9 players in the playerlist all the n's in the cycles have to add up to 9. If there was no talk in the main thread (during N0 for example) we can only interact with people in the same cycle as us by passing info through our neighborhoods. So for example during pregame there were two closed systems of information {beeboy, WB} and {me, MM4, Edos, Treble, ZZZX, Ircher, Gamma}.
Now there are conditions you can put on the permutation you chose. For example, you made it so that nobody could be neighbors with themselves which is equivalent to there being no 1-cycles in the permutation (these kinds of permutations are called derangements). If you wanted to get rid of situations like the {beeboy, WB} one we had here you could add the condition that there are no 2-cycles in the permutation. If you think its valuable (like I do) to put everyone in the same informational "loop" then the condition you want is that the permutation is just one big 9-cycle.
So how do we achieve this? Well you could just keep rerolling until you get this, but this might take a while (in an n player game only 1/n of the possible neighborhood assignments will have everybody in the same cycle). So the easiest way is to just do what I suggested above: randomize the player list and have everyone be neighbors with the people next to them. This guarantees that everybody is connected by just going down the list!
Hope this explanation made some sense.
If you decide to run another game like this let me know!
I think giving scum a PT in the system than a standard one is bad: they have to monitor themselves or not recruit, and the first is just bad design while the second can raise some questions. I'd prefer either the Novice modifier or the N0 recruit.
<Embrace The Void>
“A flipped coin doesn't always land heads or tails. Sometimes it may never land at all...”
In post 455, Aristophanes wrote:I'm in! Hit me up with yo maths!
Also, I agree on the scum with scum possibility being necessary, thus it's inclusion!
The idea is that you first randomize an order for the player list (for example, first pick a random number from 1 to 9 and use that to choose the first player, then from 1 to 8 to choose the next player (excluding the player already chosen) etc.) until you get some random list like:
MM4
Ircher
Treble
WB
SS
Gamma
Edos
beeboy
ZZZX
Then you assign neighborhoods by making everybody's neighbor the person below them on the list (and the neighbor of the last person is the first person). So in this example you would get neighborhoods {MM4, Ircher}, {Ircher, Treble}, {Treble, WB}, {WB, SS}, {SS, Gamma}, {Gamma, Edos}, {Edos, beeboy}, {beeboy, ZZZX}, and {ZZZX, MM4}. The advantages of doing it this way are (i) you're guaranteed you won't get a situation like this game where two hoods are composed of the exact same people and (ii) the hoods are completely connected at nights (i.e. if I tell one of my neighbors something and tell them to pass it on, it will eventually get back to me and everybody in the playerlist will know it).
Spoiler: Mathy stuff
Basically the assignment of neighborhoods can be viewed as a permutation of the playerlist - that is a function that maps each player to another player such that every player is mapped uniquely - under the function that maps a player to the person who is in their neighborhood (like I would be mapped to Mario in this game). Now all permutations are composed of cycles - an n-cycle basically means that starting at one person we have to go through n different people to get back to the original person. For example, in this game we had a 7-cycle (I neighbored mario neighbored edos neighbored treble neighbored ZZZX neighbored Ircher neighbored Gamma neighbored me) and a 2-cycle (beeboy neighbored WB neighbored beeboy). Since there are 9 players in the playerlist all the n's in the cycles have to add up to 9. If there was no talk in the main thread (during N0 for example) we can only interact with people in the same cycle as us by passing info through our neighborhoods. So for example during pregame there were two closed systems of information {beeboy, WB} and {me, MM4, Edos, Treble, ZZZX, Ircher, Gamma}.
Now there are conditions you can put on the permutation you chose. For example, you made it so that nobody could be neighbors with themselves which is equivalent to there being no 1-cycles in the permutation (these kinds of permutations are called derangements). If you wanted to get rid of situations like the {beeboy, WB} one we had here you could add the condition that there are no 2-cycles in the permutation. If you think its valuable (like I do) to put everyone in the same informational "loop" then the condition you want is that the permutation is just one big 9-cycle.
So how do we achieve this? Well you could just keep rerolling until you get this, but this might take a while (in an n player game only 1/n of the possible neighborhood assignments will have everybody in the same cycle). So the easiest way is to just do what I suggested above: randomize the player list and have everyone be neighbors with the people next to them. This guarantees that everybody is connected by just going down the list!
Hope this explanation made some sense.
If you decide to run another game like this let me know!
This is awesome! Far better than I had thought of!
I will see about complimenting it in the future! Much obliged sir
Probably lean town at that point.
