Micro 737: Chosen Mafia (Day 4)

Umlaut · Post Post #350 (ISO) » Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:58 pm

Dunnstral died during the night!

Spoiler: What was he!?

Day 4 has dawned.

Official Vote Count 4.00

Not Voting

(3): tman2nd, Keychain, Bulbazoor

With 3 alive, it takes 2 to lynch.

Deadline:

(expired on 2017-09-20 05:56:00)

Keychain · Post Post #351 (ISO) » Sun Sep 10, 2017 12:14 am

In post 330, Keychain wrote:Umlaut, the way you manage to start each day on a new page will never fail to impress me!

(also: I did a reverse image search on that picture Dunn hammered with, and I've been enjoying the heck out of the song for the last couple days)

I need to go to sleep. I'll be back in the morning. Please no voting yet.

tman2nd · Post Post #352 (ISO) » Sun Sep 10, 2017 6:17 am

Ok. Well, now I'm sure it's Keychain. I just don't see it being Bulbazoor.

Why did Gorny have to go be so scummy yesterday? If I had been around before it ended, I would have likely changed my mind and voted Gorny.

I'll make some arguments later.

tman2nd · Post Post #353 (ISO) » Sun Sep 10, 2017 11:58 am

@Bulbazoor What was your reason for voting Gorny?

Keychain · Post Post #354 (ISO) » Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:43 pm

Yeah I don't think it's Bulba but if he is scum and wins based on some Day 1 distancing and then lurking out for three Days, I'm going to be quite annoyed.

I think you're more likely the scum here, and I should have lynched you D3 for twice last-minute jumping on the BTD6 wagon for no reason instead of getting distracted by Gorny, but I'm going to check through Bulba's slim ISO today just to make sure. Once I've done that, I'll make cases on you both to figure out who it is.

tman, why did you vote BTD6 in 319 - despite not finding them scummy in 308? I don't think you ever gave a reason that they

would

be scum, apart from PoE, and that's too easy for scum to fake for me to find it entirely trustworthy.

In addition, why did you not want PM lynched in 193 when you only had a "slight lean" on him being town in 105? Like you didn't seem to have a very good reason at all and it feels like you might have been trying to give PM the opportunity to save himself.

tman2nd · Post Post #355 (ISO) » Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:38 pm

In post 354, Keychain wrote: tman, why did you vote BTD6 in 319 - despite not finding them scummy in 308? I don't think you ever gave a reason that they
would
be scum, apart from PoE, and that's too easy for scum to fake for me to find it entirely trustworthy.

In post 308, tman2nd wrote:So BTD doesn't seem scummy to me.
Neither does Dunnstral,
but since Dunnstral was on the counter wagon to scum while BTD was on the wagon on scum, that breaks the tie for me.

They were null to me, but so was Dunnstral at the time. I didn't have any scumreads at the time. (Except some small doubts about you but at the time I overall considered you to be town.) So, yeah it was POE.

In addition, why did you not want PM lynched in 193 when you only had a "slight lean" on him being town in 105? Like you didn't seem to have a very good reason at all and it feels like you might have been trying to give PM the opportunity to save himself.

In post 193, tman2nd wrote:And BTD has not contributed well. I agree with Keychain's case on them.

It wasn't only that I didn't want to lynch PM. I also agreed at the time that BTD was scummy. At the last few hours of the day there, there were basically two options, BTD and PM. BTD looked scummier. (This changed the next day because the argument against BTD relied on PM being town.)

-----

Part of the reason I had some unvoiced suspicions of you day 2 despite my overall townread was your townread of me. The stuff you mention about my day 1 stuff around PM does look bad. During night 1 and the start of day 2, I was thinking someone would suspect me for it. Your townread of me made me wonder if you were mafia who knew I was town. Or if you were just reading me well as town.

In general, you've been well reasoned which is why I've wanted to townread you, but now I think you are just good at that, and since you are mafia, you know who all the townspeople are and so you've been able to notice things well which make people town, and so the townreads have been "genuine".

tman2nd · Post Post #356 (ISO) » Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:23 pm

VOTE: Keychain

I'm confident in this.

Keychain · Post Post #357 (ISO) » Sun Sep 10, 2017 5:41 pm

Well, if Bulba's scum, he's won it. If he's town, it's all up to him now.

VOTE: tman2nd

Spoiler: Arguments for tman scum

tl;dr: tman made no comment on PMysterious apart from a weak townread he was scared to commit to and suddenly not wanting him lynched. He kept his options open on BTD6 and jumped on the wagon twice at the last minute for no given reason, despite saying he didn't find them scummy on Day 2.

@tman: That's my case on you from previous Days. Now I'll get to what you've said since daystart.

I played my first scumgame recently and having trouble coming up with scumreads was a problem I had. This

tman2nd wrote:I didn't have any scumreads at the time. (Except some small doubts about you but at the time I overall considered you to be town.) So, yeah it was POE.

reminds me of that, despite how you're trying to fit it into a townie mindset.

Even more impressive is how you've somehow managed to retcon a scumread on me. You say you've been suspicious of me for a while, but I don't see any evidence of that. You're fabricating excuses for me to be scum and pretending you held them before now to try and give them weight, because you actually stated a

townread

on me. In 214. No sign of suspicion. If you were using process of elimination, eliminating me makes no sense if you suspected me, which makes me think you're making it up now.

tman2nd wrote: Part of the reason I had some unvoiced suspicions of you day 2 despite my overall townread was your townread of me. The stuff you mention about my day 1 stuff around PM does look bad. During night 1 and the start of day 2, I was thinking someone would suspect me for it. Your townread of me made me wonder if you were mafia who knew I was town. Or if you were just reading me well as town.

Yes. Your actions were scummy, and I should have picked it up earlier.
But you've covered it with a pretty convincing veneer of questions that made you look like you were trying to gamesolve, which is why you haven't been lynched yet even though I considered it Day 3. I explained why I decided on Gorny instead.

Keychain · Post Post #358 (ISO) » Sun Sep 10, 2017 5:53 pm

In post 355, tman2nd wrote:
In post 193, tman2nd wrote:And BTD has not contributed well. I agree with Keychain's case on them.
It wasn't only that I didn't want to lynch PM. I also agreed at the time that BTD was scummy. At the last few hours of the day there, there were basically two options, BTD and PM. BTD looked scummier.

To this point in particular - PM had not contributed well. Bulba had not contributed well. Your reasoning for voting BTD6 was pretty bad, and I've definitely had scum jump on my misguided pushes on townies before.

tman2nd wrote: In general, you've been well reasoned which is why I've wanted to townread you, but now I think you are just good at that, and since you are mafia, you know who all the townspeople are and so you've been able to notice things well which make people town, and so the townreads have been "genuine".

Townies do not always act town, or at least not in ways which can be articulated and argued well enough for people to believe you. If you think my townreads have been well reasoned because they're genuine, why have you also apparently been seeing my scumreads as such? This is not a good argument for me being scum.

tman2nd · Post Post #359 (ISO) » Sun Sep 10, 2017 7:27 pm

I'll respond to you tomorrow. I started typing stuff up but I'm tired.

Don't vote until I get chance to do that, Bulbazoor!

Bulbazoor · Post Post #360 (ISO) » Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:09 pm

VOTE: tman

after rereading, I decided that you seem the fakest based on vote logs

tman2nd · Post Post #361 (ISO) » Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:15 pm

PEDIT: Why!! I asked you to wait! Good job Keychain.

In post 357, Keychain wrote: In 193, he does something incredibly scummy - despite having just a town lean on PM he is willing to jump on the wagon on BTD6 (who turned out to be a Chosen townie) for no real reason at all apart from not wanting PM to be lynched.

Except that's not the only reason. I thought BTD was scummy as well.

The only times he mentioned BTD6 during the day he avoided committing to a read, presumably while he worked out which Chosen townie would be easiest to lynch.

Why would I avoid a read on a Chosen Townie?

Then the next day he kicks off by saying that BTD6 and Mulch - both Chosen townies - are unlikely to be scum, and defended BTD6 from Gorny. But in 297 he inexplicably backpedals and decides BTD6 is an option.

It's not inexplicable. You can see the explanation in that post.

In 308 he votes Dunnstral despite not finding him scummy...

...yet in 317 he switches to BTD6, a Chosen townie that he also didn't think was scummy, because he found my argument "convincing". No reason why he thought BTD6 was scum. Just hopped on the wagon for the second time.

My reason was POE.

Even more impressive is how you've somehow managed to retcon a scumread on me. You say you've been suspicious of me for a while, but I don't see any evidence of that. You're fabricating excuses for me to be scum and pretending you held them before now to try and give them weight, because you actually stated a
townread
on me. In 214. No sign of suspicion. If you were using process of elimination, eliminating me makes no sense if you suspected me, which makes me think you're making it up now.

I never actually scumread you until BTDs flip. (Except briefly for when I voted you right after you voted Mulch on Day 2). Other than that, I did townread you; I just had suspicions. It started during the first night when I was thinking about who could be scum. I ruled out Mulch, LUV, BTD, and Bulbazoor. That left Gorny, Dunnstral, and you. I particularly thought it might be you or Dunnstral because you two had been on the counter wagon. I also saw that the way things played out I looked bad in Day 1. I wondered how people would respond to that. That's why when you said that I was "doing great" that made me wonder if you were mafia trying to pocket me. I still thought you were town and your answer made sense. When you went for Mulch, that got me to vote you because that push made no sense to me. In 274, part of what I was conflicted about was whether you were town or not. I decided you were and I unvoted you. When you voted for BTD, I wondered if BTD was chosen and if you were mafia who had been trying to get them lynched Days 1 and 2. But, that was based on too much conjecture, and I still considered you town. When I eventually joined you on BTD, I was still feeling paranoid that he was chosen, but I decided I was just being paranoid. When he flipped, that's the moment I decided that you were mafia.

In post 358, Keychain wrote:
In post 355, tman2nd wrote:
In post 193, tman2nd wrote:And BTD has not contributed well. I agree with Keychain's case on them.
It wasn't only that I didn't want to lynch PM. I also agreed at the time that BTD was scummy. At the last few hours of the day there, there were basically two options, BTD and PM. BTD looked scummier.
To this point in particular - PM had not contributed well. Bulba had not contributed well. Your reasoning for voting BTD6 was pretty bad, and I've definitely had scum jump on my misguided pushes on townies before.

I thought there was a difference between how PM had contributed and how BTD had. PM had taken stances on things. BTD basically hadn't. He'd only talked a little theory.

If you think my townreads have been well reasoned because they're genuine, why have you also apparently been seeing my scumreads as such? This is not a good argument for me being scum.

Gorny was easy to scumread. He played awkwardly.
BTD's lack of actual positions made him easy to scumread as well. Plus there were things that Dunnstral pointed out that you could use.
Mulch is a scumread that didn't make sense to me.

tman2nd · Post Post #362 (ISO) » Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:15 pm

I was town.

tman2nd · Post Post #363 (ISO) » Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:17 pm

I definitely looked really scummy.

tman2nd · Post Post #364 (ISO) » Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:25 pm

I wish I hadn't switched onto BTD.

Umlaut · Post Post #365 (ISO) » Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:58 pm

Official Vote Count 4.01 (Final)

tman2nd

(2): Keychain, Bulbazoor

Keychain

(1): tman2nd

With 3 alive, it takes 2 to lynch.

Umlaut · Post Post #366 (ISO) » Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:03 pm

tman2nd has been lynched!

Spoiler: What was he!?

The game is over! Congratulations to...

Spoiler:

Mafia PT
Dead PT

Thanks for playing, everyone! Special congrats to Keychain for her come-from-behind victory!

Keychain · Post Post #367 (ISO) » Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:10 pm

*her

Fixed - Um

gg town! Thank you so much for modding Umlaut, this setup was super fun to play as scum!

tman2nd · Post Post #368 (ISO) » Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:18 pm

You did a good job of sounding reasonable and townlike.

Keychain · Post Post #369 (ISO) » Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:19 pm

Keychain wrote:*her

Fixed - Um

Thank you <3

tman, in the end I was just trying to get you lynched, it looked like you were trying to convince

me

you weren't scum. Well played though!

tman2nd · Post Post #370 (ISO) » Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:23 pm

I wasn't trying to convince you. I was hoping to convince Bulbazoor.

I didn't feel very good about my chances that last day. Although, I had some hope when I noticed that the last thing Bulbazoor had said about me was positive.

Keychain · Post Post #371 (ISO) » Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:41 pm

Yeah, I was worried about that townread of his - he was kind of a wildcard and I would have preferred someone a bit more predictable. But it was either Dunn or Bulba for the nightkill and I thought Dunn might not hold his suspicion on you if he made it to LyLo.

You did play well, very clearheaded, but you made yourself a bit of an easy target by kind of letting me talk you into voting a Chosen townie, twice.

I wasn't deliberately trying to pocket you, but I guess that's what happened. You did seem genuinely town to me until I actively started looking for ways to get you lynched.

Really enjoyed playing with you! I didn't have much hope for winning when I made that desperate attempt to save PM on the first day

Lil Uzi Vert · Post Post #372 (ISO) » Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:51 am

Good game.

Well played KC!

Bulbazoor · Post Post #373 (ISO) » Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:52 am

Wow
I second-guessed last minute

Bulbazoor · Post Post #374 (ISO) » Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:52 am

Facepalm