Micro 746: The Deco Murders - Game Over!

[fferyllt]

Vote Count 1-7

It's impossible to discuss Art Deco architecture and not mention Miami Beach, home of dozens of Art Deco hotels, restaurants, and theaters. This building was built in 1939. The architect, Henry Hohauser, helped shape South Beach. This building sports a streamlined, nautical design complete with portholes.

Vijarada

(2): Not_Mafia, Sunlit Diamond

Sunlit Diamond

(2): Gödel, Gorny

Inferno390

(1): TywinL

acidphoenix

(1): Raya36

TywinL

(1): Inferno390

Gorny

(1): acidphoenix

Raya36

(1): Vijarada

Not Voting

(0):

No one

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline: October 19, Midnight US Eastern Time.

Countdown: (expired on 2017-10-18 21:00:00)

Mod Notes:

- Gödel v/la from Oct 11-16
-

[Gorny]

So I'm town of course.
I honestly don't know how to read Not_Mafia at all but like he's funny so don't lynch plz.
Rereading this game I actually hate Gorny wow. I was giving him towncred for a post by Godel I thought was town but whoops different people lmao. Like I thought 68 was just being wrong? But now looking at it again 68 is pretty bullshit tbh. Like, after heaps of stuff was going on he says "wow this game is getting super-serious fast, I'll read it again but here's my thoughts on the first read". And then his thoughts are literal garbage. His vote on Diamond is obviously manufactured and his other thoughts are "I would normally scumread this but ayyyyyyyyy not this time" and "this is why this person RVSed me". And later than that all he does is defend his fake vote and then recently he's come up with the revolutionary theory that Tywin/Inf might be TvT? What? Yeah no buddy.
I think I mildly townread Sunlit, she's said what I've been thinking a few times and she seems pretty genuine.
Godel is like... mild gutread on his one post which seems genuine in tone, post more.
Inf and Tywin are locktown
So it's gotta be like Gorny and then one of Raya/acidphoenix. Still leaning Raya bc as I pointed out before, she's still just asking random questions and not responding. Her questions seem to have no goal and the one time she responded to an answer was like post 153 where she's just like "i agree with you". It feels to me that Raya is standing at a dartboard with all our names on it and asking random people their opinions on one another, trying to slip under the radar. There's no indication of scumhunting there yet.

Vote raya or gorny ty ty.

That because I noticed your Fong's gambit and commented on it?

[Vijarada]

Fong's gambit is a phrase that, to my knowledge as a mafia player who first played in Jan 2014, I have never heard be used. The wiki page for it was last edited in 2008 and is two sentences. If it was ever a real piece of terminology, it does not remain so. Your attempt to rescue it from obscurity is nothing but a distraction.

[Vijarada]

You and inferno need to get your head out of your absolutist asses and realize that theories you just found by googling are not infallable.

[Vijarada]

sorry if that's a personal attack.

[Gorny]

You and inferno need to get your head out of your absolutist asses and realize that theories you just found by googling are not infallable.

It takes one to know one.

Sorry if that's personal.

[Gorny]

UNVOTE: Sunlit Diamond

VOTE: Vijarada

[Inferno390]

You and inferno need to get your head out of your absolutist asses and realize that theories you just found by googling are not infallable.

Woah.
First off, I used Fong's Gambit to DEFEND your self vote. So don't jump all over me on that.
Second, stop using the word theory. They are not THEORIES, they are LOGICAL FALLACIES that are used for scumhunting and as scumtell.

[Not_Mafia]

What LOGICAL FALLACIES?

[TywinL]

I said already

I just looked through all of your posts, and you NEVER explained why you thought I was so town. What's up with the blatant lie, dude?

I did

Inferno390

Gödel

acidphoenix

Raya36

Gorny

TywinL

Sunlit Diamond

Vijarada

Not_Mafia

Here's mine:

Inferno390

Raya36l

Sunlit Diamond

Gorny

Gödel

Vijarada

acidphoenix

Not_Mafia

TywinL

SO why the heck am I on the top of your list, and you're at the bottom of your OWN list?

Because I'm scum, duh

No, you just said that I'm town. You never explained WHY you thought I was town.

I think that you're right. You ARE scum, along with TywinL.

This is your whole post. Like, I said, I didn't take it out of context.

[Raya36]

Inferno390

Gödel

acidphoenix

Raya36

Gorny

TywinL

Sunlit Diamond

Vijarada

Not_Mafia

Dumb newbie question: what do the different shades mean?
I know that green means town and red means scum? Is orange null? I assume this is in order of town to scum but why don't the shades seem to be in order?

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Second dumb newbie question: what does this even mean?

Inferno390

Gödel

acidphoenix

Raya36

Gorny

TywinL

Sunlit Diamond

Vijarada

Not_Mafia

Okay, so why am I at the top of your readlist? What makes me so town to you?

Why are you singling yourself out from the list?

You're killing me N_M. I am simultaneously really irritated by this entire exchange AND crack up every time you post. Me @ confused.net.

This @theentireNMandinfernoexchange

[Not_Mafia]

Inferno390

Gödel

acidphoenix

Raya36

Gorny

TywinL

Sunlit Diamond

Vijarada

Not_Mafia

Dumb newbie question: what do the different shades mean?
I know that green means town and red means scum? Is orange null? I assume this is in order of town to scum but why don't the shades seem to be in order?

Correct @ Everything

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Second dumb newbie question: what does this even mean?

It's just the playerlist in random order in rainbow text cos I felt like it

[Raya36]

Oh okay, thanks for clearing that up.

[Sunlit Diamond]

[Sunlit Diamond]

I hate myself so much I actually reread this thread.

Inferno I would like to hydra with you at some point. I think playing with someone who can give feedback on your play without the nuance of you trying to sort them (and without stalling the game to do it) would be extremely beneficial. This is a serious proposition, please PM me if interested.

A) Tywin vs Inferno. Is that light at the far end of this tunnel, or just a train?

B) I'm tempted to take Not_Mafia at his word that he's scum. I was amused by the trolling when it was happening, but on a reread...it's just a massive distraction that didn't seem to have any actual purpose beyond getting inferno riled up and wasting time. He may replace Vij as my lynch choice for the day. I'm tired and cranky after wading through all that crap so I'm going to give it a minute and see what he has to say first.

C) I do not understand the scumread on Raya. I read the thread, I ISO'd her, I looked through some of her post history...it's far from anything close to a good meta read, but her behavior seems consistent and I'm town reading pretty hard at this point. Can someone go into better detail with this?

D) Yes Vij, you were reading the people who were active. My problem is that there was no depth to those reads and your posts since have been...luke warm.

E) Acid and gorny are on the lower side of my list as well.


My list green to red right now is something like

Inferno
Raya
Tywin
Acid/Gorny
Not_Mafia / Vijarada


and Godel is null until he gets back.


Also: According to my email I have a shit ton of work piling up and may not be able to post again until tomorrow night.

[Inferno390]

What LOGICAL FALLACIES?

So first, I would like to make a statement regarding Vij. After doing a little research, this is what I found:
Fong's Gambit
"This gambit consists of a player voting for themself, with the intention of coaxing whoever the Mafia is into voting for them. The original player will then hope to lead a vote against the now suspicious player who voted for them."

So Vij's move was not as anti-town as I first thought. However, it also didn't work directly. I only gave FoS, which is less than a vote, but more than nothing, so TYwinL tried to use that against me.
Except TYwinL's used so many fallacies it's not even funny. Here's a list of a few:

ORLYScum:

"1) If X is scum, then his arguments are scummy.
2) X is scum.
3) Therefore, X's arguments are scummy."

Argument from Repetition

"A simple but sometimes effective technique which simply requires a player or faction to repeat its (essentially false) argument so many times, usually in virtually identical words, that the group begins to see it as an assumption and acts on it."

Attack the Person

"Argumentum ad Hominem (or "Attack against the Man") is a attack on the person, rather than on their arguments. It brings in irrelevant personal information or arguments about the opponent, in an attempt to distract either the opponent or the audience. This often happens in mafia games. Instead of attacking an accuser's arguments, someone will attack the accuser instead."

Confirmation Bias

"Confirmation Bias or Tunnel Vision is when a player becomes convinced by their own arguments by virtue of how long or how strong they hold them... It is not always a false assumption, but it can be blinding to new or better options that come along, because they do not match the player's "pet theory"."

Red Herring

"A red herring is a distraction technique, either to avoid having to come up with a reasonable defense to suspicions directed at the player, or to create a fog of confusion around precisely why some other player is suspicious."

Straw Man

"A "Straw man" argument (also called "setting up a straw man") involves mischaracterizing your opponent's position in order to present a weaker argument than they have actually given, thereby allowing you to defeat it. It usually involves subtle changes to the given facts of the matter, or minor changes to wording that lead to semantic differences in what is said.
Also, "Strawmanning" involves taking a small piece of the case someone has built up that is weaker than their other points and blowing it up. They can then defeat the weaker point and use that as 'proof' that everything that person has said is wrong. "

Bodyguard Defense (also known as Chainsaw Defense, Tarhalindur Version)

"The general form of this tell is "a player who defends another player by attacking the other player's attacker is very probably scum". "

Anyone want me to start quoting posts or laying out the reasoning, just ask. I'm just trying to avoid more crazy wall posts (which are another good way to hide these fallacies btw)

These logical fallacies. All of which you can look up in the wiki, and, quote unquote, "if you think someone's arguments seem fishy, they probably fall into one of these fallacies." (From the wiki).

[Not_Mafia]

I know what a LOGICAL FALLACY is, quote where has Tywin used them please

[Inferno390]

VOTE: Inferno390

Because you're scum.

He's trying to paint things that are actually NAI as scummy. He's being way too serious about a simple self-vote.

These last three are ORLYscum and the last is AtP.

Lmao, I was about to reveal that I was using Inferno as a reaction test and I was lying about my scum-read on Inferno but now I actually think Inferno is scum. That OMGUS from Inferno is just unreal, but I will most more in detail later. Also lol at Inferno keeping his FoS on Vij.

p-edit: lol

This is pretty Red Herring, because all it's done is managed to cover up for why he actually thinks I'm scum.

Instead of trying to reply to Inferno, I feel that it will be more useful to sum up my thoughts about him because honestly, it's just starting to clog up the whole thread now.

>RVS
>Vij self-votes
>Inferno says that it's pretty scummy
>Raya makes a point that town could also do it too
>I decide to do a reaction test to learn more about this slot. Did you really think I had a solid 100% scumread on Inferno on page 2? Come on now.
>1v1 begins
>We have a debate about scummy vs. being scum
>Inferno makes it clear that he think it is pretty scummy, but he points out that he did not say he was scum
>Inferno tries to shoot back at me for playing the chainsaw defense on him.
>Inferno then pairs me up with Vij if Vij is scum then I am a potential scumbuddy.
>Inferno then complains that I am attacking him for no reason and that there are other people do have done things similar to Inferno. In this case, Inferno is trying to equate his action with other people playing RVS. I actually did not like this since it seems like a pivot or redirect to me.
>Finally, Inferno votes me.
>Inferno also responds to Vij's post saying that the FoS remains.
>I reveal that I was actually doing a reaction test because I had seen enough at that point.
>Inferno laughs and calls for a policy lynch.
> More back and forth and more wall posts
>Inferno learns that the correct term is actually "anti-town" which I admit I also did not know. Then he states that he concludes that what Vij did is anti-town and not scum.
>Inferno continue to state that I am throwing "wild" accusations but I had already said that it was part of the reaction test and that he's quoting me out of context.
>Inferno then states that I am lying about the reaction test and that I should be policy lynched.
>Some time goes by because I was asleep and Inferno wasn't around either
>I come back and state that I will post more later.
>Inferno comes back and tries to clear up his reasoning but he actually contradicts himself.
>Inferno then posts a bunch of theories and talk about how I violated every one of them which is funny because I didn't even do some of those things AND some of the things he did himself too.

I will expand more on the last two lines since I have not responded to those yet.

This is the straw man.

And the Bodyguard Defense+AoR has been his entire argument on why I'm scum. "Inferno said that VIj's RVS vote was scummy, so therefore he's scum trying to pick a fight." (Even though I've said that I don't think that Vij is scum multiple times.)
And he wont let up on it despite plenty of other evidence to the contrary, with is Confirmation Bias.



Now, If this isn't accurate, I'd be more than happy to talk about WHY it's not accurate. This is how I see it though.

[fferyllt]

Gödel and acidphoenix have been prodded.

[acidphoenix]

prodge

content later

[TywinL]

I'll say more later, but the latest post from Inferno is full of bs.

[acidphoenix]

scummy-bs

or inferno is a dumbass-bs

(if you think inferno is scum but you're just saying that none of his points make sense answer option b)

[TywinL]

Option B. Scum and none of his points make sense. Will follow up on that tomorrow when I have more time.

[Gorny]

Option B also, dunno about you guys but to me it's killing the game. Most of it is spent making new response walls while the rest of us barely participate and claw our eyes out

[Sunlit Diamond]

Option B. Scum and none of his points make sense. Will follow up on that tomorrow when I have more time.

Tywin:

Through door A, you have a no-lynch on day 1.
Through door B, you have to vote for someone other than Inferno.

Given these two options and no others, which would you pick?