Micro 745: Beyond Death [Endgame]

[CheekyTeeky]

VOTE: Cheeky

If you don't respond to my questions then my vote isn't moving.
You said demonstrably untrue things- such as explicitly saying I wasn't voting someone I was- and are still sticking to them.

Looks like your vote is useless then. You still haven't got the point.

[CheekyTeeky]

Oh no are you scum chip?

No, but we haven't interacted much in this game, so we probably should do that for a bit. What's on your mind?

Why are you inciting confusion? I find all your justified confusion, and LAMIST ISO digging a bit disconcerting, but I don't want you to be scum :/

[Chip Butty]

If my confusion is justified, why is it disconcerting? Now i really am confused.

LAMIST? Should i not ISO dig? Or just not mention that I'm doing it? My point was that NSG has so many interactions that i need to ISO a bunch of other people to understand her ISO properly.

I should probably think of some penetrating questions to ask you...

[CheekyTeeky]

If my confusion is justified, why is it disconcerting? Now i really am confused.

LAMIST? Should i not ISO dig? Or just not mention that I'm doing it? My point was that NSG has so many interactions that i need to ISO a bunch of other people to understand her ISO properly.

I should probably think of some penetrating questions to ask you...

You can mention it, I've just noticed that a few of your posts mention that this game is confusing and that everybody else is confused also. That in combination with, what looks like, you unsuccessfully trying to game solve, leads me to believe this is more of an act than not. I'm still trying to sort this feeling out.

[Chip Butty]

I'm just being upfront about it. I mean, can you point at anyone who isn't just casting about looking for the way forward? I don't see much else to do but ISO people and ask questions and try to spot a slip. As I've said, I'm ISOing now and the questions will come after that.

[Micc]

oh man. it took cheeky two sentences to explain what I've been trying to say for three days.

Can we get an actual wagon on Chip yet? That and some catchup posting from LUV/BTD would do wonders for this game right now.

[Chip Butty]

Micc, I'm putting you on hold for this RL day while i work on my ISOs (lol sorry if that's LAMIST, CT). Otherwise we're just doing the same tired dance where you take up all my time then accuse me of not doing anything. Especially if your cunning plan is just to rehash ground I've just been over with CT.

Also, how did CT say in two sentences what you've been trying to say for days? You couldn't articulate 'LAMIST' and 'spreading confusion'???

I'll respond to FRESH concerns RL tomorrow, unless i finish ISOs today. Don't hold your breath though, because i don't have a ton of time today.

[Micc]

Yeah that's fine and dandy with me. I don't think I've done anything but respond to your questions or call for other players to join your wagon since I voted you. So yeah, do your thing.

And because I'm not sure if those questions are rhetorical or not, the two sentences I was referring to are quoted below. They summarize the second and third bullet points of the case I made in post 326 quite nicely.

...I've just noticed that a few of your posts mention that this game is confusing and that everybody else is confused also. That in combination with, what looks like, you unsuccessfully trying to game solve, leads me to believe this is more of an act than not.

[BTD6_maker]

The setup isn't anything too complex,

I will note we will NOT get flips night one;

and no-lynching in this setup is almost always the wrong move.


The two "self-docs" here should be treated somewhat like you would bulletproofs in the matrix 6 setup, with the note that them claiming early like the matrix 6 BP strat is a bad idea.

Ok so the bold is what pings me. We know, and Cabd has admitted, that he rushed in and didn't read the setup. If he were vanilla town he would have received the role PM which gives us the "lingering spirit" ability. He would not know that scum cannot whisper and kill the same night if he did not receive the scum role PM. His mistake with the two-self docs initially alerted me to the fact he hadn't read the set-up, so one can assume that he's only read his role PM and that is the information he's basing this post on.

Therefore I believe Cabd is scum.

I am back. I have skimmed the thread and will be analysing specific posts in more detail. I will answer any questions anyone has for me about this game.

Also, I claim Tree.

I now know that Cabd is the Firefighter (a.k.a. Intervener). CheekyTeeky did not, at this point.

Now, CheekyTeeky is using the fact that Cabd thought that there were two Docs. Of course, this suggests that Cabd had indeed rushed in and did not read the setup. However, their next step is to deduce that because of this, Cabd also would not know that we will not get flips on Night 1 because scum cannot kill and whisper on the same Night, then claiming that the reason they knew this is because they read it in their Role PM.

However, this does not work. When Cabd signed up, they very likely read at least that it was a Forest Fire setup. If they knew that much, they likely knew the function of an Arsonis but didn't bother reading in detail. This setup is different from a regular Forest Fire in one key detail, but Arsonists still function in the way they always have.

This is why this suggests that CheekyTeeky is looking to cast shade on Cabd more than a genuine scumread. Scum are more likely to try to point out contradictions. If scum can make an honest mistake look like a slip, this furthers their goals. Indeed, they are perhaps slightly less likely than Town to refer to an honest mistake as simply an honest mistake (unless, of course, their partner made it, and Cabd is Town). This leads me to a very weak scumread on CheekyTeeky.

[Sobolev Space]

okay back for a bit now

hopkirk is back to null for now

Sobolev, can you please expand on this? What post(s) made him drop from you liking him to falling back to null and why?

this was after he had posted 241, 245 and 247. there wasn't anything especially scummy in those posts i guess i just wasn't too impressed by the questions he was asking and thought he would have been expanding his game out more by that point. i kinda had the same impression that nsg did 268 so i decided to put him back to null

hopkirk is back to null for now

For the record, I am reserving my real reads list until everyone else has posted theirs, i don't want "sheep the confotown's reads" being a thing.

sure

{SS, Cabd}
{NSG, Cheeky, Chip}
{BTD}
{Hopkirk, Micc}
{Kawso}

@Sobolev: there were 4 Hopkirk posts in between these. Can you please explain your progression from null to scumlean on him, with reference to those four posts?

i didn't find hopkirk/micc especially scummy at that time but i had enough trs that people i had at null still seemed more likely than average to be scum. i put btd a tier above just because there's a chance he could've come back from v/la and obvtowned it up while that ship had already sailed for hopkirk/micc

[Sobolev Space]

i like btd's most recent post but plz also give your reads on everyone else

[Cabd]

Bd's post does track a little.

[Sobolev Space]

what does track mean in this context?

[Cabd]

"I can follow the thought process and could see it coming from town"

[Sobolev Space]

ah i gotchu

cabd are you deliberately holding back your reasons for scumreading micc/your other reads? is there any time in the near future when these will be made known?

[Cabd]

Confirmed town creates a "follow the leader" scenario where people sheep me without hesitation and I REALLY want to avoid that. So yes, and my full thoughts and vote change if any will probably happen tomorrow evening.

[Sobolev Space]

i also wanna apologize again to everyone for low activity. i have an insane amount of things to do before friday but hopefully after that i'll have more time for this game.

i kinda just wanna reread the whole game because i'm feeling very meh about my reads as a whole. the hopkirk/micc/chip interactions i feel should be revealing but i don't see any obvious insights to glean from them.

if i can't make some sort of game advancing post by friday night i'll probably replace out

cabd, if this means you want to delay giving your full thoughts i understand

[Cabd]

You're fine. This game has been low-content for a while and needs a shakeup, no replace needed.

[Sobolev Space]

final note before i shut off the computer to study for midterms:

I guess what i am thinking is SOMEBODY must be scum, and we would be stiff to have got both in the inactives, in which case everything so far has been people blowing hot air at each other. But I'm really not picking up much among the actives, and Hopkirk just has a slightly less town vibe than the others. I know that's vague but it is the best I've got right now.

unlike cheeky i actually townread this. i think its a decent diagnosis of the game state and does show some attempt at scumhunting (i.e. both scum probably aren't in the inactives)

people often think its scummy to not take strong positions and be wishy-washy about the game state but in my (limited) experience scum do try to take strong positions, they just don't do the pushing/work that they would be doing if they actually believed what they said

[CheekyTeeky]

I look forward to his promised ISO digs. I note that BTD6 is following the same line of suspicion as NSG on my scumhunting Cabd. I look forward to more from him too.

[CheekyTeeky]

Yeah I'm not sheeping conf. town...It's nice to have a free town read though. Is sheeping conf. town AI?

[Cabd]

Yeah I'm not sheeping conf. town...It's nice to have a free town read though. Is sheeping conf. town AI?

No, but it stagnates games.

See: BP in matrix6

[CheekyTeeky]

I think we're doing ok, everyone is just waiting for the two inactives to give their reads.

[Hopkirk]

Why the fuck am i the only person voting Cheeky when she's explicitly refused to engage with evidence that undeniably contradicts what's she's saying.

[CheekyTeeky]

Why the fuck am i the only person voting Cheeky when she's explicitly refused to engage with evidence that undeniably contradicts what's she's saying.

Why are you ignoring the point that you went out of your way to cast shade on NSG but then put in zero effort on your scum read on me? Were you hoping to get away unquestioned with your scum read? You're still trying to use your case on NSG to drown my point in. I don't like inconsistency or you dodging the point when you've accused me of dodging yours.