Micro 745: Beyond Death [Endgame]

[Chip Butty]

UCV, please check out PZ's ISO. You'll see he hasn't answered a single question by anyone. It's all 'i have reasons but I'm not going to tell anyone what they are'...

[Chip Butty]

People ought to be demanding answers to the questions I've put to Micc and PZ.

[Micc]

Oh, and I'd REALLY be interested in hearing why Micc is willing to sheep onto such a weak-ass vote on BTD.

Okay, I think we're rolling now, at long last.

Still want an answer to this please, Micc...

I switched my vote to BTD because it made his wagon the largest of players that were in my lynch pool. I had hopes that doing this would a) help me get a better read on him through pressure and b) jumpstart a game that was becoming stagnant. I thought I had made that pretty clear, but maybe not. I'll leave you to explain why my answer to this matters.

[BTD6_maker]

Nopes again. You don't get to ask questions while blowing off questions from others. You haven't contributed anything except that naked vote on BTD. How am i supposed to townread you based on that?

So here's your problem my friend. You've casually insinuated a few times now that my actions are "scummy" without actually giving any backing to the claim. And I've given you ample opportunity to do so. Just to be clear, I'm not asking so you can convince

me

, I know what my alignment is! But if you actually well and truly believe that I'm doing vague and mysterious scummy things then your reaction should include things like:

1. Voting me
2. Asking others to vote me; pushing a wagon
3. Pressuring me into answering questions
4. Examining my iso and voting history in detail
5. Putting forth a case

My issue is that you've done none of these things. Instead what you've done is:

1. Throw shade at my slot
2. Complain about my behavior
3. Refuse to explain basically anything

I came in with a pretty strong scumread on your slot, so when you presented the opportunity to engage I took it and you've failed spectacularly. Nothing you've done in reaction to me has been townie. Instead you've tried to take advantage of my nonstandard behavior by throwing shade to erode the townpoints my predecessor gained without actually committing to it with a vote or writing down a stance I could debunk. Doing that would pin you down into a 1-on-1 that you're not sure you want because you don't know how good a player I am or how good my reads happen to be.

@Micc:

Are you done with BTD or do you still have things to hash out with that slot?

The thread is in danger of collapsing under the weight of the irony of this post alone. This is from a guy whose own "push" on BTD comprised a single naked vote.

I am reading what Chip Butty has to say about Papa Zito.

I can certainly see the hypocrisy of Papa Zito here, naked voting me and then making this case against you. However, what I am wondering is this: do you think that this hypocrisy in itself is scummy?

I am thinking that if Papa Zito really were scum, they would be aware that they are naked voting me to wagon me. Bearing this in mind, they may think that they themselves will be noticed if they try to dismiss your case as merely casting shade and complaining.

Now, if they were Town, it may be that they are blind to their own hypocrisy. This is psychological projection (essentially, "pot calling the kettle black") and is a common phenomenon. Of course, this means that they are bad Town, but in this case they are still Town.

This is why I would regard that Papa Zito post as being very bad, but slightly Townish rather than scummy. Of course, you didn't explicitly call it scummy but you seemed to imply it, hence why I am asking you.

You have said more about Papa Zito, which I will likely analyse in the morning.

[Chip Butty]

Oh, and I'd REALLY be interested in hearing why Micc is willing to sheep onto such a weak-ass vote on BTD.

Okay, I think we're rolling now, at long last.

Still want an answer to this please, Micc...

I switched my vote to BTD because it made his wagon the largest of players that were in my lynch pool. I had hopes that doing this would a) help me get a better read on him through pressure and b) jumpstart a game that was becoming stagnant. I thought I had made that pretty clear, but maybe not. I'll leave you to explain why my answer to this matters.

I think it matters in the light of PZ's unsupported vote on BTD, and interactions between you and Hopkirk. Especially now that you're all on my wagon. I'm pretty sure I've caught PZ in a lie there btw. And ibdid get the largest wagon part from what you said. But do you really think BTD is scum? I'm not feeling it.

[Chip Butty]

^ by 'all' i mean Micc, PZ, Hopkirk. Not BTD...

[Chip Butty]

It's funny how PZ accuses me of taking my ball and going home, but when i say i have ample time for chatting and bring up what looks like a lie over whether he answered my questions about his vote on BTD, he disappears...

[Chip Butty]

@BTD: Exactly. Is it scum or badtown? That is what i was hoping to get more of an idea of with my questions, which PZ is still to answer.

Micc, why aren't you demanding more from Papa? I know he is in the SS slot but sure the contrast must have struck you?

[Micc]

I think it matters in the light of PZ's unsupported vote on BTD, and interactions between you and Hopkirk. Especially now that you're all on my wagon. I'm pretty sure I've caught PZ in a lie there btw. And ibdid get the largest wagon part from what you said. But do you really think BTD is scum? I'm not feeling it.

Ok, well I'm not sure what the lie you caught papa zito in is, but I could have missed it. Yeah, I think BTD could be scum. I'm not certain of it by any means, but that's what wagons are for and as I've shown, I'd support a wagon on him if it happened.

Micc, why aren't you demanding more from Papa? I know he is in the SS slot but sure the contrast must have struck you?

Sure, I noticed that he was a somewhat cryptic about the reasoning behind his reads when he entered the game. But I was town reading his slot, and now that he's expressed his reads and they line up very well with mine and that we seem to be at least mildly town reading each other...so yeah I'm comfortable with what he's doing.

[UC Voyager]

intent to hammer in 12 hours

[Cabd]

Nah, i'm gonna unvote, your'e gonna vote, I reserve the hammer.

UNVOTE:

[UC Voyager]

Nah, i'm gonna unvote, your'e gonna vote, I reserve the hammer.

UNVOTE:

you mean you want to be the one to hammer him?
VOTE: Chip
fine

[Cabd]

Yeah, confirmed town should always have the hammer if possible. There's no claims going to come out anyways, given the nature of the setup and me being the only PR.

[Chip Butty]

UCV seems to be in a hurry to end the day without giving us anything from that slot. We need to at least get that. If he isn't forthcoming real soon now I'm voting him.

[Chip Butty]

Cabd, what are you seeing in PZ that I'm not? I'm swinging round to the view that one reason it has been hard to find scum here is that SS played that slot really well. I haven't played with PZ before so i guess i need to meta him and see if he always plays like this.

[Chip Butty]

Good lord almighty. I have answered all that at this point.

@Micc: This is the lie right here. Not only did he naked vote BTD, but then he refused to answer why he voted or even why he couldn't say why he voted. Then he lied about having answered already. To me rhat looks like a pattern of avoidance that does actually seem scummy rather than just badtown now i put it that way.

PZ says somewhere i am avoiding a 1v1 but thatvis the exact opposite of the case. I'm itching for this, but he seems to have disappeared.

I think i will vote actually, with the proviso that i reserve the right to switch to UCV if he fails to come up with something good...

VOTE: PZ

Just to be crystal, this vote is specifically about the pattern of avoidance i just noted...

[Papa Zito]

I can certainly see the hypocrisy of Papa Zito here, naked voting me and then making this case against you.

That's not what hypocrisy means. I know the big words are fun to use but let's be responsible posters.

---

Can you point me to where you answered that?

Sure. 518.

I'm pretty sure I've caught PZ in a lie there btw.

Do tell.

[Chip Butty]

Seriously Chip. Put a vote into play.

Predit: haha, haven't you realized that Chip's go to method of reading people is that activity=Town, any sign of lurkyness=scum and absent=null.

The Magic Chip Formula.

I'm not really lurking I'm just feeling really confident in my reads. Which is weird but nice. So atm I'm much more interested in supporting my townreads efforts in doing things than trying to drill down on my own.

Other than Chip. I do want to have a chat with Chip. Speaking of which:

Sure. If your slot didn't have the SS history behind it, i would be at least have you leaning scum atm.

oh no

but why

Okay, let's look at 518. I'm really glad you brought this post up. First thing, i don't see how you have answered why you have answered my questions (which hadn't yet been asked at this point). All i see here is a preemptive strike against future questions by saying you don't want to drill down on your own stuff. Guess what, champ? That shit don't fly. I think you are just trying to retro-fit this post to suit your current needs.

And why did you feel the need to defend yourself against a lurking charge? Had anyone accused you of lurking? Not that i can see...

I don't know why i seem to be the only one who seems to be able to see this, but then again i started out by giving you a pass based on SS's handling of the slot too...

[Chip Butty]

^ ...I don't see how you have answered my questions

[Chip Butty]

Can you please just straightforwardly answer my questions please? Why the vote on BTD? Why didn't you want to discuss your reasons? I don't see how this is answered in 518, i still think you lied about having answered these, and now i think you have tried to whitewash that lie.

[Chip Butty]

So the pattern I'm seeing from PZ is:

1. Voted BTD for no stated reason
2. Preemptively sought to avoid future questions about this vote (518)
3. Start casting shade at me only AFTER i poked him
4. Avoided my questions about vote on BTD
5. Lied about having answered my questions about vote on BTD
6. Tried to whitewash the lie by retrofitting 518 to the purpose.

I think PZ knows BTD is town and he is attacking me to draw attention away from his attempt to start a bogus wagon there.

[Chip Butty]

I think i kind of buy Micc's story here. It's consistent with the way he has played all game.

[Chip Butty]

Besides, i can't see a scum PZ/Micc team at this point any more than i can see a Hopkirk/Micc scumteam.

[Papa Zito]

Okay, let's look at 518. I'm really glad you brought this post up.

Neat.

First thing, i don't see how you have answered why you have answered my questions (which hadn't yet been asked at this point). All i see here is a preemptive strike against future questions by saying you don't want to drill down on your own stuff. Guess what, champ? That shit don't fly. I think you are just trying to retro-fit this post to suit your current needs.

? I voted in 438. I explain in 518. Are you ok?

And why did you feel the need to defend yourself against a lurking charge? Had anyone accused you of lurking? Not that i can see...

That was in response to this post:

Predit: haha, haven't you realized that Chip's go to method of reading people is that activity=Town, any sign of lurkyness=scum and absent=null.

[Chip Butty]

Except you don't explain your vote in 518. Is anyone else seeing an explanation there? All I'm seeing is 'I'm not interested in explaining'