Micro 747: Setup UPick Mafia

[Aronis]

The setup has been chosen (09:12)
and all role PMs have been sent so . . .
Day 1 begins!!!

Votecount 1.0

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No Lynch - [0]

Not Voting - [9] -

Not_Mafia, GuiltyLion, Agent Sparkles, Hopkirk, Flubbernugget, Raya36, BluBlake, Fenraiser, northsidegal

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2017-10-25 16:09:05)

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Events

Day 0 Starts|Day 0 Ends

[northsidegal]

hey everyone!

VOTE: blublake

[Raya36]

VOTE: Not_Mafia

[BluBlake]

VOTE: Flubbernugget for hammering with 8 days left.

[GuiltyLion]

VOTE: Fenraiser

serious vote, I found the jokes about vanilla ice cream to be a bit forced and awkward. might be uncomfortable scum

BluBlake, why is that setup hammer more likely to come from scum!Flubbernugget than town!Flubbernugget? or are you mostly joking with your vote

[BluBlake]

It was just a random vote

[Hopkirk]

we're allowed to talk, right? i agree on 9:12, i looked all the setups on the wiki a while ago and if i remember right it has a pretty good town winrate. i'd be okay with chosen mafia too, there are just a few that we definitely shouldn't pick.
VOTE: 9:12

This sounds exactly like what I was thinking new scum would say to try and sound town when I signed up.

I've played 9:12 before, it was fun, town won, and I believe it limits scum fakeclaims pretty strongly which is nice. I honestly haven't thought through which of the setups would be more or less townsided yet so I don't really have strong opinions on the setup personally. slight townread on northsidegal for 5.

Fenraiser did you have a reason to vote for DDU when Chosen already had a vote?

VOTE: 9:12

What did you like about 5?

I've played 9:12 before, it was fun, town won, and I believe it limits scum fakeclaims pretty strongly which is nice. I honestly haven't thought through which of the setups would be more or less townsided yet so I don't really have strong opinions on the setup personally. slight townread on northsidegal for 5.

Fenraiser did you have a reason to vote for DDU when Chosen already had a vote?

VOTE: 9:12

I'm fine with either one actually as they are the most vanilla.

I think Double Day Unlimited would be more fun than Chosen imo.

I don't see why you'd want Vanilla, and the joke afterwards seemed like skipping the question.

VOTE: Fenraiser

[Hopkirk]

hey everyone!

VOTE: blublake

Why did you vote like you were making the first ingame post?

[northsidegal]

This sounds exactly like what I was thinking new scum would say to try and sound town when I signed up.

it's the truth, so you can take it however you want. do you find it entirely unbelievable that a townie would want to play the setup with the best town winrate?

hey everyone!

VOTE: blublake

Why did you vote like you were making the first ingame post?

there wasn't a lot of real game discussion during day 0 and i always try to be polite and greet everyone. i wanted to wait until everyone had a chance to get into the thread before i started asking questions. right now i'm waiting for fenraiser's response to 19.

[Raya36]

we're allowed to talk, right? i agree on 9:12, i looked all the setups on the wiki a while ago and if i remember right it has a pretty good town winrate. i'd be okay with chosen mafia too, there are just a few that we definitely shouldn't pick.
VOTE: 9:12

This sounds exactly like what I was thinking new scum would say to try and sound town when I signed up.

I kind of feel the same way about this. I didn't even think to consider what games had the best town win rate and I chose solely off of what I thought would be the most fun. The fact that North brought this up could either be town thinking a bit ahead or scum trying to get town brownie points.

[Flubbernugget]

VOTE: Flubbernugget for hammering with 8 days left.

Yeah I saw someone entertain dd unlimited and made the decision that nobody deserved the opportunity to do something stupid.

[Flubbernugget]

Raya's most recent post is a lack of scumhunting hidden in a few sentences.

VOTE: Fenraiser for suggesting dd unlimited. Town win rate for that setup is garbage and a half.

[Flubbernugget]

L2

[Not_Mafia]

VOTE: Fenraiser because L-1

[Raya36]

Raya's most recent post is a lack of scumhunting hidden in a few sentences.

Yeah, I realize I kind of left that at "it could either way". Let me elaborate a bit.

North could have been simply thinking ahead and trying to pick a setup that would benefit town as far as win rates go but I can't seem to shake the feeling that scum could easily pretend to be concerned with town winning by picking a game with a good town win rate and getting towncred early game from it. I'm kind of leaning towards North being town since he brought this up early on and it would make more sense for scum to do this siuationally. Vote for a beneficial game for scum if the votes are spread and he wouldn't get any attention from it or if there are already a lot of votes for a specific game that qas beneficial for town vote for it and then bring up how it's beneficial for town to get the towncred.

[Fenraiser]

Ohoo! Never been L-1ed so fast before!

Okay. I don't like the arguments for my scumminess that hinge solely on my choice and preference of vanilla games. The arguments against me, as I understand, are that I picked Chosen/Unlimited DD because they have a high scum winrate and low townrate.

Basically, what some are saying is that I'm scum because I pick/prefer vanilla games that also have a low town win rate.

That

seems

understandable at first glance, but following that line of logic, the people with those views are implying that people who voted for non-vanilla set-ups and such are probably town.

That implication is pretty scummy.

What I will say and focus on is that people that use this argument against me also indirectly apply it to themselves. In other words, I'm calling those people out for trying to grab for towncred.

VOTE: Flubbernugget for hammering with 8 days left.

Yeah I saw someone entertain dd unlimited and made the decision that nobody deserved the opportunity to do something stupid.

This was an earlier post of Flubbers. He seems to be against that set-up, but I would think this is soley because he does not like the set-up. But, coupled with the below post, I can see this as a grab for towncred more than scumhunting.

Raya's most recent post is a lack of scumhunting hidden in a few sentences.

VOTE: Fenraiser for suggesting dd unlimited.

Town win rate for that setup is garbage and a half.

Now, I could make the argument that you are town because you did not suggest dd unlimited following your logic . We both know that the conclusion and argument would be incredibly lackluster and without any grounds. Especially when you didn't choose a set-up in the first place. Although, if you were scum, that would be the best position to put yourself in if you're going to use

game preferences

as the sole argument to vote for someone.

VOTE: Flubbernugget for towncred grabbing.

[northsidegal]

hmm... that seems like a lot of words without really saying that much in the end!

for what it's worth i was going to vote fenraiser in my first day 1 post but i figured that he would be lynchbait, and i was definitely proven right. fenraiser, you're basically making the same argument that hopkirk did in 31 - that people are just supporting high winrate games for the towncred. i'll ask you the same question i asked him - do you think it's impossible that someone who wants the town to win would prefer a setup with a higher town winrate? i can see the argument that how someone goes about supporting a certain setup could be alignment indicative, but if you're making that argument you need to explain it. also, i'd appreciate if you answered 19 - is there any reason you wanted a more mountainous setup?

[GuiltyLion]

What did you like about 5?

mostly it read to me like a natural attempt to start discussion. nothing strongly indicative but my gut said it was an opening post with nothing to hide.

I can see why you'd look at that post and think "this is something that scum would say to try to look town" but I didn't get that vibe from it. and I'm not convinced by that sort of reasoning regardless because it starts with an assumption that the post ultimately does look town on the surface - otherwise, you wouldn't think that it's the kind of post that scum would want to emulate.

[GuiltyLion]

I'm gonna co-sign the questions in 41 and ask a follow-up:

I can see this as a grab for towncred more than scumhunting.

you

can

see it as a grab for towncred, but how confident are you that it actually

is

a grab for towncred?

[Aronis]

Hi my wonderful players!!!!

I think Agent Sparkles has flaked cause like they haven't picked up any PMs I've sent and it's been over 60 hours now, soooo I am going to go find you guys a replacement. wish me luck

[Hopkirk]

This sounds exactly like what I was thinking new scum would say to try and sound town when I signed up.

it's the truth, so you can take it however you want. do you find it entirely unbelievable that a townie would want to play the setup with the best town winrate?

hey everyone!

VOTE: blublake

Why did you vote like you were making the first ingame post?

there wasn't a lot of real game discussion during day 0 and i always try to be polite and greet everyone. i wanted to wait until everyone had a chance to get into the thread before i started asking questions. right now i'm waiting for fenraiser's response to 19.

@Fenraiser
‘That seems understandable at first glance, but following that line of logic, the people with those views are implying that people who voted for non-vanilla set-ups and such are probably town.’
This is wrong because: If we do accept scum have a preference for higher scum winrates, then scum must decide what’s optimal in the trade-off between ‘pick high scum winrate to statistically win more’, and ‘pick lower scum winrate to appear town (the whole thing is complete WIFOM). Therefore, the scum who voted for good town setups just fall into the second group. Nobody’s said there isn’t scum in the second group (especially since there’s two scum, and at most 0-1 scum in the first group depending on whether you’re scum or not), so it looks a lot like you’re straw manning the position.
There’s also a difference in that it wasn’t a binary choice between vanilla setup with high scum winrate, and non vanilla with high town winrate. There were multiple options with varying winrates and PR numbers. Flubber wasn’t saying his pick was good by saying yours was bad- he was saying one specific pick was worse than the others, so more likely picked by scum than town.


Also, the non-vanilla setups (especially this one), have better town PRs. That’s a reason for town to prefer non- vanilla that isn’t just winrate based. Winrate and Vanilla are being used interchangeably in some instances.

[Hopkirk]

That North post was supposed to be here rather than above. I multi quoted North's post, then forgot about it by the time I'd finished responding to Fen. This post is responding to North, but there's no point quoting again as it's above.

1.) It's 60-40 at the very most. I thought about what factors would influence setup choice as soon as I'd signed up, and I'd assume most people did. The thing that makes it lean one way is commenting upon it at the start seems like it comes slightly more often from scum than town- given I didn't expect anyone to have not thought of town winrate, so vocalising it seemed like empty words.

2.) I missed 19, so didn't realize you were already questioning someone, and I like you after reading it.

[Hopkirk]

we're allowed to talk, right? i agree on 9:12, i looked all the setups on the wiki a while ago and if i remember right it has a pretty good town winrate. i'd be okay with chosen mafia too, there are just a few that we definitely shouldn't pick.
VOTE: 9:12

This sounds exactly like what I was thinking new scum would say to try and sound town when I signed up.

I kind of feel the same way about this. I didn't even think to consider what games had the best town win rate and I chose solely off of what I thought would be the most fun. The fact that North brought this up could either be town thinking a bit ahead or scum trying to get town brownie points.

I slightly like this (assuming Raya is new as it appears) as scum have more incentive to think about setups.

[Aronis]

Kop replaces Agent Sparkles

I'll update the op and do a vote count sometime in the next 2-6 hours

[Aronis]

and of course I just must have my beloved pagetop for this votecount, so bump~